/vr/ - Retro Games

dragon quest is dragon quest, being boring and tedious is part of the charm

>>5987680
Just use a guide, my dude.

>>5987680
you should've played the snes or gbc remake buddy, you fucked up.

I just finished dragon quest 1 and phantasy star 1 back to back. I too am ready to move ahead to the 4th gen games.

Hot take: I liked Dragon Quest 1 and 2 better than 3. Having four party members, and stronger enemy encounters to balance it, padded the length of random encounters enough to push things into unbearable territory.

>>5987694
Just like me

>>5987680
Try some game without grinding, like Chrono Trigger or Earthbound. EB has little grinding compared to DQ

>At this point should I even bother with Final Fantasy III and Dragon Quest IV?
Final Fantasy 3 is linear. There's normally only one direction you can progress.
Dragon Quest 4 is broken into chapters to introduce the characters. Each chapter is limited to a small area until everything comes together in the fifth chapter so you should have a good idea where you can go.

>1. You are not given directions as to where to go next, leaving you to find out where to go on your own, by pure dumb luck.
You get hints from talking to people. Maybe you are playing some translation instead of the original and they left that out.

>>5988105
I'm playing the NES original. Reading some guide, I think I found what the problem is. Text related:
>"From here, if you go south along the coast, you'll go around the cape of Tedanki.
>If you keep going along the shoreline you'll reach Baharata and finally Jipang, known as the golden country.
>It is said that whosoever gathers the 6 Orbs, scattered throughout the world, can travel anywhere without a ship.
>Anyway, go south!"
The issue is that "you'll go around the cape of Tendaki" isn't particularly clear. If I go south and then sail around the continent, I get to Baharata. But what "cape of Tendaki" means in this case is that I need to cut inland through a river and then find Tendaki.

Either I'm a retarded ESL (which I am btw), or these instructions were poorly written and/or probably constituted two different sets of instructions in the original Japanese, telling the player how to reach Tedanki AND Baharata. But as they were, I understood the southern point of the continent to be "the cape of Tedanki".

Anyhow, had I discovered Tedanki, I would have known that:
1. I required the "Final Key".
2. I needed to begin my search in Lancel.
3. I would need to buy Invisibility Herbs and go to Edinbear.
4. In Edinbear I would find the jar and know I needed to search for some shoals.

I admit I'm being unfairly harsh on the game, as I didn't download the game's manual. The Japanese original shows you the map of the world, which would have come in handy quite a few times (especially at orientating myself without a map).

>>5988563
The SFC gives you an ingame map.

>>5987680
You know a genre is dogshit when its gameplay elements get better by making them last less

>>5987881
CT has no grinding because it forces you to fight 90% of the battles.

>Now the same problem has befallen to Dragon Quest III (NES). There's something particularly insidious about open world games where

>1. You are not given directions as to where to go next, leaving you to find out where to go on your own, by pure dumb luck.
>2. There are random encounters up the ass and these aren't particularly fun or engaging.
>3. Last but not least, wander into the inadequate area and watch how your party is decimated.

It's okay, you are fucking retarded. I played this game a few months ago and I didn't look up anything at all for the entire game, and I can't remember a single area where I got stuck. Japs were right about Americans and JRPGs. Go back to your Mario. I also think this game is a 10/10 (the SNES version at least).

>>5988648
Obsessed.

>>5988648
I don't think it's a problem with JRPGs as a genre, the issue is when your moment to moment gameplay isn't particularly fun.

Selecting commands from a menu doesn't take skill, and most fights in the game don't require me to think them through. The ones that do (against overpowered enemies) take far too much time when you take the encounter rate in mind, i.e. difficult battles last longer, but the encounter rate stays the same, meaning it just contributes to making the game more tedious.

The battles themselves don't feel rewarding either (and objectively speaking, they aren't when it comes to Exp and Gold). It's strange how devs don't realize this. Then again, it's the same retard that thought that the massive amount of grinding in Dragon Quest made the experience "rewarding" for those willing to endure the grinding.

>>5988698
> It's strange how devs don't realize this.
Please, consider that for more 20 years jrpg has been The videogame genre. That the combat is boring and unchallenging must be part of the secret. And now consider how people prefer jrpgs with more plot and characters than gameplay.

1. You are not given directions as to where to go next, leaving you to find out where to go on your own, by pure dumb luck.

All the towns people in the different areas after the boat gives you clues what to do around the world. Maybe best to get a notebook and write the different things down
2. There are random encounters up the ass and these aren't particularly fun or engaging.

Fairy Water
3. Last but not least, wander into the inadequate area and watch how your party is decimated.

NES JRPG are all grindfest. SNES is honestly where you started to see the drop in needing to grind.

Personally I say open up a map of the world online. Gives you town names so you aren't just wondering around wasting time.

DQ3 is great in a lot of ways but personally the boat is both the best and worse things about the game. It's fun exploring but if you don't really know what or where to go because you missed an NPC or maybe didn't reach a town that has the NPC that gives you the advice for what to do you can get a bit frustrated.

DQ4 is way more linear and honestly more story focus unlike DQ3 which is more of a exploring game than a story game.

>>5988698
Jarpigs rely on the feeling of progress. Emphasis on FEELING. If a player wanted to see the progress he's making while playing a game he would play fighting games or RTS, where you can clearly see you become a better player due to your skill, not the stats that get bloated as a result of time.

To put it differently, 100 battles in a jarpig will give you a level up. 100 battles in a fighting game, an RTS game or a shmup aren't guaranteed to make you a better player. You can become better in half the time or in twice the average time and it all depends on you, not how fast the game designer thought you should grow.

>it's another /shmupg/ raid

>>5988698
>The battles themselves don't feel rewarding either
This is partly because JRPGs descend from Wizardry, but tried to tone down the cost of entry and difficulty. Prime way to do this is by reducing battle difficulty, as opposed to Wizardry where combat was dangerous as fuck

the SNES jrpgs are far less grindy than the NES jrpgs though

its better than any dq game past 6

>>5987680
Don't know much about Dragon Quest but I see you inquiring about Final Fantasy as well, so here's a quick rundown:

Final Fantasy 1 is customizable and has nice variety of locations, but is clunky as fuck. Final Fantasy 2 had an actual plot and interesting dialogue mechanics, but is hopelessly broken grind city and STILL doesn't have auto-target when you kill one enemy in a group. Final Fantasy 3 is the best of the NES trilogy by far but unfortunately quite grindy as well.

Final Fantasy 4 blows all the previous games away but be sure to grind like hell before the final boss. Final Fantasy 5 is like 3 but better, which means it has a cooler job system and deeper plot, but again requires a ton of grinding to get any use out of it. Final Fantasy 6 is leagues ahead of even 4 and arguably the best game in the entire series. It also BTFOs every Dragon Quest game in its sleep.

>>5987680
>There's something particularly insidious about open world games where

Unlike open worlds, DQ III has some structure that rewards exploration. It is not a game about walking everywhere and solving the local quests, you have to find the orbs and you are given hints.

>You are not given directions as to where to go next
Once you receive the ship, there is a towe south of your position. It is the first place you see once you start navigating. The guy in that tower tells you how to get started exploring.

>leaving you to find out where to go on your own, by pure dumb luck.
Exploring the world to figuring out where the orbs are hidden is part of the fun, and they only way to find out their positions is by asking npcs. You are even given a spell to memorize conversations. So instead of simply following a line, you explore the vast lands figuring out how to find the treasure. I thought this was really different to both open world and more linear games.
But you don't relly on luck, simply you are never given a quest marker. Little by little the hints will guide you. You need to change the mentallity from "go to town, solve quest" to "gather hints, receive big reward".

>There are random encounters up the ass and these aren't particularly fun or engaging.
The random encounters are not that different from DQV. If you enjoyed that, you shouldn't have any issues with III.

>wander into the inadequate area and watch how your party is decimated.
So use the run action. This is a no problem, do you really want to casualize the only challenging aspect of the game, the exploration?

>should I even bother with Final Fantasy III
FF3 is very different from DQ3. If what you are looking for is more plot, skip to IV. DQ IV plays a bit closer to V in that there are characters with personality.
People who enjoy V but not III are usually looking for more story-oriented games. Try Chrono Triggers and FFVI too.

>>5989172
>The guy in that tower tells you how to get started exploring.
Yeah, but like I said, a combination of the translation (or the original text) being somewhat confusing and not using the map provided in the manual meant I never found that famed town which gave me the necessary steps to progress through the game.

With that part of the main quest out of the way, I'm now exploring "Africa" before I continue exploring the rest of the world.

>>5987680
FF3 is miles ahead of DQ3 in terms of how well it's aged, since the job system keeps it entertaining and engaging (at least in my opinion). I'd at least play it.
I've powered through DQ games (and Phantasy Star II) mainly as a rite of passage and so I can say I experienced them. They aren't really bad, but they are a bit troubled. Use cheatcodes, if you'd like. I didn't, but they can help if you mainly care about seeing the plot.

>>5989559
P.S.
FF3's plot is threadbare at best. It's mainly worth playing for the job system. IMO 3 and 5 are the best in the series for gameplay and replayability.

>>5989559
>>5989563
To be honest I'm not a plot whore, but I do want gameplay-focused games to be fun. And I especially hate resorting to guides, which is a shame because if I had just explored the world a bit more like I had planned to, I wouldn't have needed to look up one.

Phantasy Star is one game people praise but it seems as if they do so only because of the hot graphics. Me, I'm finishing Dragon Quest III, then trying out Final Fantasy II, then Mother, then Dragon Quest IV, and finally Final Fantasy III. Crystalis was one game I wanted to beat, but I'm having second thoughts, mostly because repetitive action combat is even more boring than menu-driven RPGs.

>>5987680
What are you fucking retarded?
First of all, these games came in a box set with maps, progress charts, enemy charts, and much more.
1. So what? go explore, its an adventure for a reason. Talk to towns folks, go where you THINK you are suppose to go.
2. Get Fairy Water you dumb fuck.
3.Oh no, you went to place with strong enemies, DON'T FUCKING GO THERE DIPSHIT.
No, you shouldn't bother at all with any of these games, go back to fucking WoW Classic or Fortnite or whatever garbage you "trying to fit in" kids play. Shut the fuck up already and get the fuck off my board.

>The game won't hold my hand!
>I have no interest in learning different ways to deal with enemies
>I demand the game be linear, but want it to be on a red carpet!

Maybe you shouldn't be playing games meant to be beaten by 5th graders if you're playing at a 1st grade level.

>>5987680
Dragonquest/dragonwarrior in general is a series about 2 things; being archaic piles of shit and making money off dumbass japs. That's it. If you don't like meandering grindfests with no real appeal, and also aren't a chink, gook, jap or other moon rune reading, rice munching asshole, you won't enjoy it. Period.

Other early JRPGs are also archaic, but aren't horrible to play. The early FFs, despite being rough around the edges are actually quite charming and can be enjoyable.

>>5990276
You

Should

Go

Back.

>>5990287
Triggered Questranny.

>>5987680
V, VIII and XI are the only games worth playing desu.

>>5990308
dilate and cope you fucking faggot

>>5990318
>N-no u
DQ tranny SEETHING.

>>5990276
Based. Dragon Quest is to JRPGs what CoD is to shooters

Stop making threads about how much you hate JRPGs you insufferable autists. Start playing games you actually enjoy.

>>5990323
>No u
>No u
kikes mad

>>5990276
>>5990327
Hmmm I thought so. Stilll I'm powering through the game, I've made decent progress and got a few more things to do (search between some mountains, explore the shoal shrine, go to the dungeon in Jipang, and explore the entire "American" continent).
>>5990190
>go where you THINK you are suppose to go.
Terrible game design.
>Get Fairy Water you dumb fuck.
Even more terrible game design, a literal "don't like the gameplay?" item.
>DON'T FUCKING GO THERE DIPSHIT.
How am I supposed to know where the strong enemies lie before I even go there? Terrible game design as well.
>muh Fornite
Fallout doesn't hold your hand either but the game design is great so you always know where to go next.

>>5990190
>So what? go explore, its an adventure for a reason.
It's not an adventure, it's a glorified visual novel and I expect the story to flow fluidly, not in chunks. Enough padding the game with repetitive grinding.

>>5990645
>Fallout doesn't hold your hand either but the game design is great so you always know where to go next.
It's also a game that was made10 years after Dragon Quest 3. Compare it to Ultima 5 at least and it's the same fucking thing. Talk to every NPC to find out all the different towns and what to do there and also the different major NPC to interact with. This was just what RPG where back than. NPC interactions and exploring.
>How am I supposed to know where the strong enemies lie before I even go there? Terrible game design as well.

You die and lose half your gold which isn't that big of a deal. Enemies are too strong either gain a level or two or find a different place to go.

>>5990645
Fuck off ESL, that dude is completely right. No ones forcing you to play this game. The game encourages you to explore, and if you cant beat enemies in an area it means dont explore there yet. Jarpigs are literally the easiest genre out there, its not bad game design, its a bad game player.

>>5990991
>stop disliking the games I like

>>5987680
>1. You are not given directions as to where to go next, leaving you to find out where to go on your own, by pure dumb luck.

Do you dumbfucks even talk to the NPCs?
Every fucking RPG thread, I swear to god.

>>5991037
It's like you can't even read.
>>5988563
>
The issue is that "you'll go around the cape of Tendaki" isn't particularly clear. If I go south and then sail around the continent, I get to Baharata. But what "cape of Tendaki" means in this case is that I need to cut inland through a river and then find Tendaki.

>>5991045
You can't properly read either or you'd be playing the Japanese version.

>>5991045
Nigga everyone can read besides you it seems. I swear this board has the most worst posters.

>>5990670
Its a turn based lite rpg, what the fuck are you even playing it if you don't even like the core gameplay mechanics?
>padding
No, thats the gameplay you dumb nigger.

>>5991060
I don't need to play the Japanese version when I'm playing the official English translation. If the translation is bad, that says more about the company and the game than me.

>>5991158
>No, thats the gameplay you dumb nigger.
Some pretty shitty gameplay then, getting into a random encounter every five steps, and more than once getting into an encounter one step after coming off of another.

>>5991170
That's the gameplay. If you don't enjoy it play something else! Watch a fucking let's play or something god

>>5991221
Seen as the game only seems to get worse, maybe I should do that. Thanks anon.

>You are not given directions as to where to go next
How is this a bad thing?

>>5991016
>raids a Pyramid
>steals treasure
>expects it to not be cursed
Seriously though that was one nice touch of the game... the pyramid is one of the most hostile and cryptic places in the game, and your reward for exploring it is that you get cursed.
Details like that make DQIII great in my opinion.

>>5991329
Wait, wut?
>Golden Claws
Ohh... I didn't know about this. That pyramid was such a bitch too.

I'm glad I looked up a walkthrough on where to find the sunken shrine, because aside from "it's in the western sea" there's no other clues going around. No regrets, saved me a lot of pointless sailing around.

So my physical Switch version of DQ 1-3 came today - I started with 3. I gotta say, those clashing sprites don't look as terrible on a TV screen while sitting 10 feet away from it compared to a screenshot directly in front of you on a computer monitor. The graphics aren't bothering me in the slightest, I rather enjoy the musical remixes, and I'm having a good time with it.