/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5985931
I have it mapped as a toggle. Great for grinding.

>>5985934
Why not just use cheatcodes to max out your level from the start?

>>5985931
You’d think that but as a result of fast forward, unless the game allows for preset actions, one simplifies all encounters to the same button pressing with no regard for strategy (if it was required) and ultimately creates a monotonous experience, like covering an meal in ketchup and claiming it’s an improvement because it’s more palette able to yourself personally.

It also ruins the experience of real hardware because like the zoomer you are you can no longer focus on games without your “quick fix” button.

And grinding is fucking dumb anyway learn to play the game better.

>>5985946
That's why earthbound/mother 2 got it right when you got to a certain level you just instantly killed low hp enemies

>>5985934
Why play a SNES-era jrpg if you don't want to feel the sense of progression? What, for the fucking story? Legit question.

>>5985942
Not him but cheatcodes don't involve skill or decision making. Speeding up the game is still playing the game, it even makes it more difficult in a lot of cases. It's incredibly helpful for JRPS with slow dialog or battle animations. I've probably shaved years off my life and been able to play 10x as many games thanks to speeding through the bullshit.

>>5985946
Based. If you gotta grind in a jRPG, the game sucks then.

>all the strawmen itt

I have been using fast forward to skip over tedious bits in platformers lately. Feels good man.

>>5985952
You experience the progression, just 4 times faster

>>5985931
>All retro JRPGs massively improve with emulation speed set to 400%
I realized this a month or two before I quit playing rpgs altogether. If you want faster action play action games, beat em ups, shoot em ups, fighters, run n guns, etc etc.

>>5985952
After you have played several of these games the LARP of grinding wears very thin.

>>5985946
The game speed isn't what determines how many buttons you have to press. It speeds up the game. Some games even have it built-in, such as Chrono Cross, and Pokemon if you use either the Super Gameboy or Stadium to play it (I forget which).

>>5985931
>playing any game with fast forward
>when it makes every soundtrack sound like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGJbuHUbw8k

man the holodeck is a cool idea but all episodes that revolved around it sucked

>>5986028
Jesus fuck, that made me laugh really hard. Thanks anon.

>>5986028
Yeah this is the only problem with speeding it up. Someone smart should make rom hacks of games which adjust to it, if thats even possible.

Its 100% true for any tactical game or SRPG at least. Unless you're completely slow in the noggin, you will process the enemies' actions before the game actually completes their turns due to walking/casting animations needing to be completed etc.

>>5985957
What is the point of playing a jarpig if you skip the text?

Take any jrpg
Remove all non-mandatory random battles
Woah playtime is 1/8th of what it was without losing anything meaningful

>>5986145
It's almost like JRPGs are just really inefficient story delivery vehicles.

>>5985931
>try to select "Magic" from battle menu
>cursor goes around the world 7 times in a split second and winds up back where it started

>>5985931
Retro JRPGs would improve from having less random battles that give out more experience. Clicking on menues can only be so fun until the encounter rate wears you down.

>>5985957
Grinding doesn’t involve skill or decision making either.

Something people who always speed up their games don't realize is that it facilitates grinding to the point there's no challenge left. Speeding up JRPGs makes them very easy because you lose track of when you should stop grinding, as you rack up levels dramatically faster than playing normally, and as such you get the idea that you still haven't reach the "proper" level you should have for a given area.

>>5986083
What's the point of reading text you've already read.

>>5986295
Not exactly, theoretically a well designed game would have safer grinding spots that dish out exp slower but easily and harder grind spots that give more exp quicker but at greater risk but alas the Japanese can't make good games.

>>5986207
>360 no scope magic missile

If you don't like JRPGs, don't play them. Go watch a let's play or something.
JRPGs generally don't necessitate much grinding.

Everyone bitching about battles when in fact what bogs down the experience is having to talk to every random npc to trigger a programming flag to access the next dungeon. I wish Jarpigs had something like a Fire Emblem mode that just loads a series of maps with enemies and a boss in it.

>>5985931
I like FF7 on Switch because you can turn off random battles, holy shit what a god send.

>>5986387
BUT ANON HOW ELSE AM I GOING TO FEEL SUPERIOR

>play star ocean
>follow a guide until you get to the coliseum
Now I will buy your game.

>>5985931
Why not just play traditional roguelikes? Bump combat still applies all the stats and "dice rolls" but without having to fuck around in menus. They are basically the interesting parts of rpg without the garbage.

>>5986420
Roguelikes suck. Games with a significant amount of randomly generated crap instead of being thoughtfully designed by humans are all so damn bland.

Depends on the game really. Some games have fun exploration, decent party customization and possibly great boss battles, but dungeons are filled with filler random encounters.

Turbo button + Fast forward is practically improving them because it allows you to skip the most tedious part of the game.

>>5986376
The only goal of jrpg combat is to make a perfect equation for the situations at hand to best the encounter in a single round.

Fast forward is great because the transition and xp/loot screen goes by faster.

>>5986448
you speak from inexperience

>>5986376
>alas the Japanese can't make good games.
they do sometimes make roguelikes, they ain't bad

>>5986530
Actually there's a lot of stuff to enjoy about them. Even if you discount the item management, character customization, exploration, and story, the battle systems usually offer enough depth and options to be fun.
You don't have to grind like crazy in every game. Low level runs are proof that you don't even need to be at an average level, let alone level 100.

>>5986376
>the Japanese can't make good games.
>>>reddit

>>5985957
>JRPG's
>skill
The levels of bait in this board, holy shit

>>5986387
But I feel good when I kill the superfinal boss with one hit and I hate investing time to do it :)

>>5985969
>If you want faster action play action games, beat em ups, shoot em ups, fighters, run n guns, etc etc.
I can just play all of those and also have my faster JRPG gameplay.

>>5986018
>2002
>ZSNES
>fight the same enemy for the 500th time
>the repetition of the music becomes a form of psychological torture
>Mute it shit
>put on some high energy SOAD
>find out fast forward exists
>the game matches the tempo of my music tastes
>Have some actual fun playing it

Fuck all that grindy bullshit, you gain nothing of value from it and it's just there to pad out a game. I have other shit to do.

>i want to be able to join the conversation about jrpgs but i fucking hate playing them and i think of myself as being above watching lps on youtube even though the people watching those ultimately receive a much better experience than me
I just dont get it

>>5986083
I don't skip it. I make it go faster so I don't waste my entire life waiting for the next line of dialogue to appear. The pacing for most old JRPGs is slow, probably because the games were meant to be accessible to younger kids that couldn't read as quickly but I'm an adult who reads very fast and I don't have time to waste. You might think saving a second isn't a big deal but I've probably literally saved myself months of time when you combine all those seconds. I literally feel sorry for you desu and all the time you've wasted because games have slightly too slow animations.

>>5986083
Play FFT and w.....a.......t.......c........h....... the.....text s...l...o...w...l...y......a...p...p...e...a...r... on...the...screen at the beginning then tell me you wouldn't toggle the speed up if you could.

anyone got some cheat codes?
I'm trying to hack the game.

>>5986840
If it's slower it's more theatrical, you feel it more and will remember it, rather than subvocalizing everything. Besides, in most jrpg games text goes as fast as you like, it's the animations and menu selections that use up time.

>>5987025
If you actually believe that, decrease the playback speed even more and play it in slow motion, sperglord.

I genuinely just do not understand you guys lol. You act like JRPGs ruined gaming when everyone with a brain knows it was a joint operation between the third-person action genre and MMORPGs. Deep down I think you know it too, which is why you still find excuses to play JRPGs.

>>5987191
it's just butthurt westcuck redditors.

>>5986028
Why does this have the Celest music overlayed from 17s

>>5987339
Celeste*

He's not wrong.
There is literally nothing wrong with playing games at a higher speed.

SLOWING DOWN games however, that IS cheating, because you can go well past human limits of timing and reaction

>>5987347

>Implying playing at regular speed doesn't test the limits of human patience.

>>5986361
That's the point, and it just shows how thin the string of JRPG gameplay hangs on. Nobody has the balls to remove grinding completely as the only solution to that is to make solid, quality well thought out and balanced gameplay that rewards tactical decision making. Leveling just gives everyone and easy out so they can pretend they overcame some challenge without actually doing so.

>>5987191
>it was a joint operation between the third-person action genre

Zelda/classic Tomb Raider etc are godsends of good design. JRPGs present mostly cancerous conventions dressed up to satisfy people with addictive personalities who don't value their time much but still want to feel they are doing something meaningful feeling with it and hence pretend to develop skill without putting in actual effort. Not every aspect of them is terrible, but the core features of the genre are, so that in general a JRPG will be better the less like other JRPGs it is.

>>5987420
>nobody has the balls to make the gameplay balanced and challenging and remove grinding
Actually, the SaGa games do exactly that, and they're universally hated by normies like you who think JRPGs need to be challenging but when faced with an actual challenging one you sputter "oh it's broken! it's not fair! i can't grind and the game doesn't tell me exactly where to go! it's poorly designed! boohoo!"
You don't want a challenge, you only think you do.

>>5987025
Slow brain cope.
Retro Rpg dialogue is bare bones writing meant for 8yr old's.

>>5987191
Rpgs just became long, passive pieces of grinding shit soon after the 80s. You could solve all problems by grinding for 10mins, money, gear , stat, power, etc. They even encourage it if you want to use bigger and stronger gear. Then let's not forget the tactics are brain dead simple, pokemon tier rock paper scissors weaknesses and elemental exploits.
Go to next town, side quest to trigger dungeon access, find npc to give dungeon quest. Do dungeon. Go next town, rinse repeat.
Buff, nuke, quaff potion, rinse repeat. Boss dead.
Auto attack all trash mob encounters.

>>5987347
If you can competently play a game at 4x the speed then it's probably garbage that takes no skill or thought.

Has any JRPG tried the Chrono Cross method? Where you can only level up by boss battles?

>>5987442
>>5987461
People like you will never get it. It's not about the challenge. It's not even really about the story. It's about a particular aesthetic and if it doesn't resonate with you, it won't be worth your time.

The lackadaisical nature of these games is the perfect vehicle for this particular kind of ineffable aesthetic. Some people just don't operate at this pace or have the time for it. That's OK.

Reminder this what the anti jrpg fag looks like.
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/477845112/
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/477868950/#477868950g

>>5987461
>>5987442
> pokemon tier rock paper scissors
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/474113402/#474113596
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/468226778/#468246416

>>5987461
>Then let's not forget the tactics are brain dead simple, pokemon tier rock paper scissors weaknesses and elemental exploits.

That's actually an insult to Pokemon, which has hands down the best implementation of elemental RPS in the genre. Most JRPGs are actually lower than that, having depth beneath even Simon Says (hah, a fire type, better use the water spell that's always there in my command list that's identical to my other elemental magic but doesn't require I have any defensive weaknesses myself).

>>5987489
>It's about a particular aesthetic and if it doesn't resonate with you

No, you see, I totally do get this. It's just that Zelda and such pulls this off way better than any JRPGs, making most of the genre straight up inferior. I don't hate all JRPGs, a number of them are part of my all time favorites, but their core conventions are genuinely awful and only hold back the aspects of them that are actually done well. For instance, the way FFVII's story is told is fantastic, but I wish the game had more substance beyond that, and I'll have to see what the remake does to judge it.

>The lackadaisical nature of these games is the perfect vehicle for this particular kind of ineffable aesthetic.

Virtually all of them would be better if they could offer some kind of substantial challenge. Having the player spend time in specific portions via 'grinding' isn't even something I'm in principle opposed to, i.e. in Souls you can fight a bunch of mobs over and over in order to hopefully get unique items from them, and this leads to a kinds of familiarization and satisfaction that perhaps wouldn't take place otherwise, but the way this is done in most JRPGs is just disgusting and actively degrades the integrity of the game.

>>5987442
>Zelda/classic Tomb Raider etc are godsends of good design.
Somebody tell me this is satire

Fuck off to reddit beepzorz.

>>5987540
He's not Beep, Beep would never, ever compliment a JRPG on anything like this idiot is doing.

>>5987540
>am i fitting in yet

>>5987548
>>5987546
stop playing dumb

>>5986207
>>5986382
this is the only real problem
i cant count how many times I have crashed into a wall while riding the bike in pokemon at 400%

>>5987553
You don't know Beep, he's the kind of guy that detests anything japanese and will not concede any point on any japanese game, let alone JRPG, this is just the usual /shmupg/ faggot shitposting in here since you people keep responding.

>>5986420
Well roguelikes have turns happen instantly so there is no need, mostly.
A few exceptions are of course:
walking all the way back to somewhere (this is why holding down the keys is a good feature, which happens at a rate set by your OS event handling)
and of course exploration (auto-explore) (you rarely if ever need to make any intelligent decisions when there is no enemies on screen unless the AI is good enough to flank you and knows where you are) or just rushing through to lower depths where the real game begins (high risk high reward)
all the zoomers who think speeding through sections of a game is bad is trying way to hard to fit in

>>5987562
roguelikes and action rpgs are redeemable

>>5986538
>you speak from inexperience
so fun to play as a non-character, to have no allies, and for combat to literally consist of walking into enemies and making sure i have good enough stats to beat them.

>>5985946
>palette able

Nigger what the fuck is you saying

ooh
finished milking jupiter 16million+
I can nmnb the final boss pretty consistently now;
Next I'll practice leaving the mech on the platform for the bonus in stage 5.

>>5985931
Phantasy Star 4 is an exception, because the walking speed and battle speed are quite fast.

>>5986391
So it finally became FFVIII and that’s the biggest improvement on the game? LooooooL gamers are such fickle pickles.

>>5985931
You are scum.

as someone who doesn't play jRPGs except for tactical ones, this thread is just embarrasing to even skim through.

>>5988478
k

>>5988460
There's no such thing as "fast enough".

>>5987461
>Retro Rpg dialogue is bare bones writing meant for 8yr old's.
Like Xenogears, the best game for your kindergarten kid.

the only emulated game i ever had to do this for was Warsong even though i had a free summer of obligations

just the tedious battle animations post mid game was it

forgot pic related

>>5985931
>game is better when the gameplay parts are as short as possible
Read books retard

why are wrpfags so obsessed?

>>5988869
*wrpgfags

>>5987770
>Paying attention to stats in rouge-likes

>>5987529
>FFVII's story being good
>Zelda being good

Yeah these games aren't made you.

>>5985946
>unless the game allows for preset actions, one simplifies all encounters to the same button pressing with no regard for strategy (if it was required) and ultimately creates a monotonous experience
Random encounters in JRPGs are already a monotonous experience. Turn-based RPGs should only have boss battles.

>>5986054
Square Enix's new releases of FF7 and FF9 have this ability actually.

>>5987538
If you think things like lock-on targeting were bad for gaming, you are a nostalgiafaggot to an unacceptable degree, even for a /vr/gin.

>>5986028
Lost it

If you grind in any 4th gen or up JRPG, you're a faggot.

>>5985931
They're definitely improved by having a button you can press to speed the emulator up at will, but having it sped up all the time totally ruins the experience. The music becomes a garbled mess, you inevitably skip through dialogue and important cutscenes, and most likely, you'll just wind up overleveled because it becomes entirely too easy to grind out a bunch of levels. When I use a speed-up function while playing a JRPG, I mostly just use it to skip through random encounters that come up naturally as I explore the world and to speed up any super long animations the game might have. I'm by no means an expert on them, but off the top of my head, I can't think of any JRPGs worth playing where you have to grind. That being said, there are some (FFIX) that I definitely think are improved by having the option to fast forward.

>>5990357
But I like being empowered and one-shot a boss then post it on youtube :^)

>>5986034
Really? They're my favorites. The holodeck allowed then to do the "time travel / colony planet that copied earth history" type plots from the original series without it seeming silly

I love JRPGs in theory but not in practice. Still looking for one without tedious story & combat. Can't stand grinding when you could just do xp rewards for dialogue like in Planescape

>>5991771
They are pretty much everyone’s favorites. That guy is just a complete fucking weirdo.