/vr/ - Retro Games

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NptBUN0j5MI

Why are sound chips so hard to emulate? The thing I miss the most about playing on an original genesis is how badass the sound is

>>5978513
>Why are sound chips so hard to emulate
Most TVs back then had crappy sound, they didn't reproduce the "real" sound the programmers/composers intended. It's just your memory, anon.

>>5977504
Why do so many SNES games sound muffled and flat? I love super metroid and it has good compositions, but the music and sound effects, in terms of sound quality, are extremely muffled. The game sounds like someone is pressing pillows against the speakers or something.

>>5978662
Because it just plays samples. The Genesis is for the most part generating its music on the fly, which is far superior in quality but you’re limited by the number of voices. Luckily the Genesis has pretty wide voice variety but most people used the default setup in gems leading to a lot of games having similar sounding audio.

>>5978662
This shit still scares the shit out of me to this day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKTBf5_T6LI

My brother played it in the dark on a tiny TV while I was trying to sleep.

>>5978513
They are part analog. What the chip is supposed to do when you vary the inputs and what it does actually output are slightly different. And those slight differences are what makes the difference between your real VA1 Genesis and Kega Fusion.
See "Ladder Effect" for a documented example.
That's not to say it's impossible to emulate it. No. Hook one up to a digital oscilloscope and analyse the output waveform generated for a given input and you might see a pattern you can reproduce digitally.
Or you might go crazy from the never ending task.

Isn't the PS1's sound chip pretty much a better SNES sound chip?

>>5978662
Samples take a lot of memory, but the SNES sound chip is designed in such a way that it has to preload all of the samples that it needs or any given scene into a specific RAM region. Said RAM region is only 64 kb, which isn't much. So most SNES samples tend to be short and/or lo-fi.

>>5978859
Obviously, since it plays CD quality audio you dumbfuck.

>>5978513
Some guys made recordings on real genesis hardware with their method documented and released them in high quality digital formats (you can choose, but it goes up to 96000hz 24 bit FLAC) for download.

https://16bap.theclassicgamer.net/

Here's a youtube sample:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD2ABr-g8m8

>>5978869
The PS1 has a soundchip alongside the option for redbook audio. Many games opted to use mostly the soundchip to save on space.

>>5978897
SHIIIEEET anon, you opened my mind. They really sound different

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SfD7SCfFHo

>>5978931
Wrong link sorry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL-05H_6kCU

>>5978859
Because it has way more RAM for samples. 64kb vs 500kb or something. That the only limit they have and for the SNES it was very severe. Most games sound like shit.

>>5977504
Because the Mega Drive has a crystal clear, unsampled synthesizer. CD quality audio, if you will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VExnEQzeaXk
Too bad they didn't have trackers back then.

>>5977504
>Even though the SNES sound chip is technically better
Not with those low sample rates it isn't.

>>5979251
Are there any tools like SPC2IT for extracting tracker format music from PlayStation titles?

>>5979252
You can control LR panning better on the SNES. Also, strings sounds way better on the SNES.

>>5977504
SNES had a hard limit on sample size and therefore doesn't sound as good as the megadrive

>>5978513
because FM synthesis via an actual oscillating quartz crystal my dude
it's like asking to emulate a tube amp

>>5977504
Nigga'n shit

>>5980128
>SNES had a hard limit on sample size
You can stream audio from the cartridge.
>>5980130
The FM synthesis is digital and it's perfectly emulated. Any inaccuracies are in the simulation of the DAC/amplifier/your shitty TV speaker.

>>5980135
>You can stream audio from the cartridge.
if you download more RAM :^)

>>5978650
TVs of the period provided extra filtering that in the case of the Genesis/Megadrive actually improved the otherwise harsh stinging sound of some commonly used FM patches. Capable developers knew the limitations of the system as well as those of the TVs typical consumers had to play their games on, and would even creatively exploit flaws in the game hardware to add greater depth to their music. Coming through an analog sound system with all that filtering and flawed game hardware IS the way the programmers/composers intended for you to hear it.

>>5980075
What are the setups people use to make covers using PS1 game sound setups? Like the guys who redo other game music using FF7 soundfont or whatever.

>>5980075
I don't know. But you can extrac the individual channels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9it930astJk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzQYxmZNfrE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMDn-mj0_4Q

>>5977504
I'm still disappointed they never made a better PSG chip than the C64. Just two SIDs together sound so much better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZmIfqCHcXo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQh22NEphA4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IX5UwRg-zk

PCE's wavetable is umderrated af

>>5980135
>You can stream audio from the cartridge
If the sound chip can't load the ""stream"", there's no point. There's always limitations.

>>5980130
>it's like asking to emulate a tube amp
Guess what every music from the past 10+ years has been digitally processed using protools. 90% of people don't even hear a difference between 320kbps mp3 and flac.

wow you're in luck OP. There just happen to be two videos released covering the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtRO-9IyCgk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmuJSeiekBY

>>5977504
Nintendoes FM too.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhHaXqzqDeURyifvWIdA5CxMybh_HFltU

>>5980410
Castlevania 64 and other N64 soundtrack are unusual worth.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhHaXqzqDeUS-SaWrktoD_HhU0gmHHwvi

>>5977504
I feel the same way, OP.

>>5979251
Same for the SNES sound tool.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jkIxY8vXFf8

>thread

>>5978897
Gayeneis below sound quality. X68000/Neo Geo YM chip is best in the world!

>>5977504
>technically better
It's not even a synthesizer though.

>>5981396
That's the point. Sampled voices on the MD are terrible.

>>5978686
>My brother played it in the dark on a tiny TV while I was trying to sleep.
Your brother is evil.

>>5981415
I will not even start on all the silent hill/resident evil shit. I'm traumatized for life I don't even watch horror movies.

>>5980478
There is still huge amounts of non DAW recordings, and Protools is far from the number one in many places. But yeah, I see what you are saying. Also pretty much nobody can hear the difference between MP3 and FLAC, especially through regular audio setups or earphones, etc... the difference is mostly felt, same as you can see idiots doing guitar comparisons and it seems like the 50 guitar sounds the same as an American Strat due to people being completely ignorant to the factors. There are obviously huge differences in these things but yeah, they don't matter for the vast majority of people besides us elite beings on vr.

>>5982449
>50's guitar sounds the same as an American Strat due to people being completely ignorant to the factors

I hear you, anon. I put fender vintage 59 pickups on my mex strat and now I have a mex strat sounding exactly the same as a 1600 bucks guitar but costing less than a third of that.

I put gibson's 57 humbuckers on my epiphone and It sounds exactly the same as a gibson.

This is as good a thread as any to ask a question that's been bugging me. The NES could produce pulse waves at various duty cycles for different timbres. Why did Nintendo offer both 25% and 75% duty cycles when they sound identical? Wouldn't it have made more sense to include, say 12.5%, 20%, 30% and 50% instead of the 12.5%, 25%, 50% and 75% we got to give composers another "instrument" to compose with? Would have made PWM sweeps smoother too. Probably a good reason for it and I'm possibly overthinking it, if anyone's going to know it'll be a randomer on/vr/ I'm sure.

>>5981176
>X68000 YM2151/Neo Geo YM2610
>best in the world
still a 4op anon its not that great

>>5977504
Absolutely true. It has so much bass and power behind it, that it handles rock music so well.

>>5982845
OPNA is king

>>5982845
>not that great

>>5978662
It had to do with hardware limitations at the time. Either you got the grungy sound of the genesis or you got a wider range of sound but it was more muffled.

There are some people who are going through the process of 'restoring' the original tracks by finding and using their uncompressed original samples.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48qLzkX8UGk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5rAjOjTGtc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIk6YFTzckc

>>5977504
I liked both the SNES & Genesis sound chips. I also liked the Turbografx-16 sound chip. In fact, I like all of them.

>>5980182
>C64
Shit taste

>>5978897
>>5977504

Here's a much better example, your main goal for Genesis OSTs, DUSTINODELLOFFICIAL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjn8_xUkXwo

Everything else is NOTHING

>>5984782
Wonder if SH2&3 sound in TG-16 wavetable.

>>5979251
>Too bad they didn't have trackers back then.

GEMS was a tracker, but it was mediocre basic entry shit, which is why almost all the games that used that sound driver had the same sound and lead to the idea of genesis sounding like ear rape farts and beeps and boops, that and early shit emulation and the fact that most of the Genesis library was composed of american developed games which its majority only had as such, with the only exception being the games developed in american dev companies that have japanese developers and musicians, example being SEGA institute of america.

Japanese composers actually composed their music as programming, which was tedious as all hell, and the great majority of stuff wasn't documented, and even if it was, it probably wasn't done well, since communication and language barriers were really a HUGE issue back then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb7LvHpOy98

Even the most basic of japanese music composing on the Genesis still sounds better than most of GEMS musical compositions

>>5980578
Oh goodie, even more fucking dog whistles by faker imposters who spread more ignorance and stupidity on the retro gaming culture.

>>5978662
Early on, SNES samples were played at 2x speed due to having them needed to being compressed and that's its why sometimes sounds like the samples themselves lack sustain and decay effects, and there were some examples (cant recall at the moment tough, but trust me, they were) where some samples, particularly voices, sounded speed up in tempo and pitch, hell let's take SF2 for example, the samples were speed up in tempo and sound like they were also trimmed, in comparison to the arcade samples.

>>5983571
no offense but the final filtered versions actually sound better and less flat.

>>5984829
I completely agree. It's S O U L-ful because it was designed and intended to be played through the original sound chip.

>>5984802
Most of the best sounding games used gems. Only idiots think gems was trash software. It’s like making fun of fender because some people are bad at guitars

>>5984870
Uhh, no? did you ever took a look at the list of sound drivers, not a single japanese developed game used it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxrllRDbrNc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSkI0VkQm1I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1l44L30gH8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqxUe27KFyk

and of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46-mGN1D9z8

>>5977504
Who knew fart modulated synthesis could sould this good.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VdwouR3tOz0

PC98 has some sweet soundtracks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJUI8i2Aavs

>>5977504
Konami Namachuukei 68 (生中継68)
MSX SCC ver
https://m.soundcloud.com/t4n3/namachuukei68-game-set-scc-ver
X68k ver
https://youtube.com/watch?v=PGX6uen7nxw
Konami always made soundchips sound beautiful.

>>5982449
>the difference between mp3 and flac isn’t heard, it’s felt
Fuck off

>>5977504
>I still prefer the megadrive one because of The BASS and drums
I don't PREFER the Megadrive soundchip, but it definitely does sound better then the SNES when you crank the volume. Sadly, very few developers were good at making the most of the Genesis sound chip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_IJYc9t3vQ
This game sounds great. Wasn't released in the states, so I legit bought a bootleg copy just so I could listen to the music through my retro vidya sound system, which is pretty baller. Game itself is kind of shit.

>>5984971
Same family of soundchips as the Megadrive. More popular in Japan in the Megadrive, so better soundtracks in general, as more talent worked with it.

>>5983483
>He doesn't prefer 6ops

>>5985174
Mega Drive YM wasn’t that popular.

https://youtu.be/vVcgkhQrPoQ
https://youtu.be/7izzSTjo6Bk

>>5985271
Typo, supposed to say "than the megadrive". The PC98 was wildly more popular than the Megadrive was, though they weren't really in the same market. The PC98 is a proper home computer that can also play games, the Mega Drive is a dedicated game console.

>>5980128
1992 demo
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=auZr9cBxRDE
SNES fan ver. of Atari
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yhwaUZetFcg

>>5984764
>Shit taste
One can say many things about the C64, but you cannot call appreciation for the SID chips shit taste.

>>5985250
Was here any game hardware that used 6 op chips, though? I only know of 4 op stuff in arcades and the Genesis, and 2 op stuff on PCs.

>>5985171
Just look a dem drums. The snes can't even compete.

>>5985507
Van: Fook you!

>>5986121
Look what I reading shit.

Post chiptune to dance to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfikhBu7E-g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TmXNOusjKI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI8dL2azTNI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGJGOv8HS5c

>>5977504
I like the Genesis sound because it sounds like a video game, not a shitty wanna-be-mp3-file

>>5986759
>>5986773
Enjoy your smelly fart bubble.

Ys3 SMD music > Ys3 SNES music. Fact.

Beholden the raw power of ancient ROBOT FARTS
BWANG
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tNnnwkH0KWI

>>5987019
>horrible opinion

Favorite demo tune?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTRfO0WOnhE

>>5988464
>Fake
C64 sound can’t pull that off.

>>5986814
>look mommy

>>5988749
You're obviously not familiar with the Hilpinens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52VsTtrnnuI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5y7ySOKcss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJuWFyP9e9c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axU9Cfb6kLw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haqxQPuMcos

>>5984894
>>5984870

To be fair, it's not GEMS that is bad. The sound driver and tracker is actually pretty good with some nice features. The problem is the default instrument set isn't that great and few developers took the time to create new instruments to use.

>>5988749
>Zoom
>zoom zoom zoom zoom zoom zoom
zoom