/vr/ - Retro Games

I wouldn't call it a downgrade because it still fixed camera glitches, fixed all of the Playstation's incorrect perspective jitter, and well, being on a cart, it doesn't have loading times, but it was still a very lazy job especially considering it took Capcom like 2 or 3 years, they could have done it MUCH better.

>>5967476
because the N64 is a downgrade from the PlayStation

>>5967482
PS has great video codecs for the time (FMV), but doesn't have 3D as good as N64, or 2D as good as Saturn.
This port was just lazy.

>Rockman Dash
wtf

>>5967490
OP is just using the japanese name.
Also for some reason he's posting some incredibly stretched screenshots at 1440x1080.

>>5967476
Still the best N64 RPG.

>>5967491
There's nothing stretched about them if he maintained 4:3 aspect...

>>5968657
emulator resolution stretch, the games aren't supposed to look like that, play them over RF on a crt on real hardware and n64 looks much better than ps1

>>5968703
>the games aren't supposed to look like that
They look better this way. Legends scales well.

>>5968703
Have fun playing Rockman Dash 2 on your N64.

>>5968703
>RF
you gotta be kidding me, by 5th gen everyone was using composite
only the poor fucks with woodgrain floor models still used RF

>>5968703
>>5968830
This thread isn't a console war thread, it's a Capcom being lazy thread.
Also, Mega Man 64 still has it advantages over the PS1 version, despite it could have been much better.

>>5968834
That's just your personal anecdote, I was stuck with rf until around 2002 but my old tv was fuck huge so I didn't mind.

>>5967476
Pros: No jiggly polygons/texture warp
Cons: Basically everything else

>>5969025
>>5969027
I don't know which is which but the first screenshot looks better in both.

>>5969027
How dare they change the shape of his chin? It completely ruins the game.

>>5969074
I wonder if that's the same LoD the PSX uses but they just axed the most detailed model.

>>5968834
I was using RF on everything up until about 2005
I STILL use it for my Genesis.

>>5967476
How do they compare at native resolution?

>>5969151
Basically imperceptible.

>>5968985
Yours is the anecdote considering consoles came PACKAGED WITH composite cables.

>>5967476
Because the N64 is shit.

fog, textures, and audio quality

>>5969560
dude console wars

why did Sony censor the catgirl magazine though?

>>5969560
/thread

>>5969157
That viewing distance on the right is horrible. Is left PS1? If so just emulate to remove the polygon jittering and you have the best of both worlds.

It wasn't a downgrade though, the ps1 version is by far the worst.
If you want the best version, play the PC version.
N64 version is good for no loading times.
If you MUST play on a Sony system for brand loyal reasons, at least play the PSP version, not PS1.

>>5967482
The only disadvantages the N64 had over the PSX were size limitation due to cartridges and lower texture memory. It stomped all over it in everything else graphics wise, and the texture limitations could be overcome if you had the expansion pak. Probably the best graphical comparisons would be between Perfect Dark and Medal of Honor: Underground, two FPS games released relatively late in their respective consoles’ lifecycle.

>>5969805
>If you want the best version, play the PC version.

Does this still work on modern Windows?

>>5967476
During the 90's ports from one system to another were usually fukken horrible including at time saturn to ps1, ps1 to saturn, ps1 to n64 and n64 to ps1 or console to pc. I have played MM 64 and it was great and it plays a bit like zelda. From the screenshots there is not that much difference apart from texture filtering and possible slightly better draw distance on ps1. Ps1 can display more polys so port to n64 can have a lower framerate while ps1 has trouble displaying big polygons.

>>5967476
n64 wasnt very good with polygons
on the other hand ps1 wss retarded when it came to textures

>>5967476
>>5969025
>>5969027
I have to admit I've never noticed that one version appears to have upgraded textures. They appear to be roughly double the resolution and are a bit more detailed. I'm guessing the from the fog in the first shot that it's the N64 version with the worse textures?

>>5970332
Yeah first one is PSX second one is N64

>>5969805
>If you want the best version, play the PC version.
Why though? It's just a direct port except with non-looping music and less lighting effects.
>If you MUST play on a Sony system for brand loyal reasons, at least play the PSP version, not PS1.
Also why? You should mention that it's Japanese only.

>>5970361
>Why though? It's just a direct port except with non-looping music and less lighting effects.
Doesn't it also come with higher native rendering resolution and no polygon wobble?

>>5967476
MegaMan doesn't work in 3D

>>5969027
only thing i noticed is that the guy grew a chad chin

>>5970361
>>5970365
No, it still wobbles. It also has jacked up music, or at least pirating it fucks it up, but it's the only game I've heard with a problem. It is in proper 16:9 though

>>5970465
PSP wobbles, PC doesnt

>>5967476
That low poly Roll is a cutie desu.

>>5970494
Still, at this point just emulate on something with PGXP support. It's the least buggy way to play it and fixes 95% of the wigglyjiggle

>>5970517
No, PGXP only alleviates some of the texture weirdness caused by the affine texture mapping it does not fix the low precision vertices which causes the jitter/wobble on the polygons themselves or the lack of a z-buffer which causes layering and clipping issues. All of which are fixed on the PC version.

>>5970526
But it's a shitty port for basically everything else

>>5967476
too much vaseline, many such cases. sad!

>>5967482
also this.

>>5967487
>>5969856
cope.

>>5969025
absolute STATE of n64lets

>>5969031
The first shot is Legends, second shot is 64.

>>5969805
Lmao n64 fanboys are so pathetic.

>>5967487
Nintencope

No games on 64 looks better than vagrant story, rr typr 4, thread of fate, omega boost or wipeout 3

>>5970542
Not really, the only real issues are the sound problems.

>>5970563
Majora's Mask

>>5969157
Blurry mess on the right
Nintendorks coping as always

>>5970578
Blurry mess again

>>5970526
I'm not who you were responding to, but it was the other way around for me. When I used pgxp, the poly jitter, although not completely fixed, was improve in a similar way to using the higher res setting in the ATI version of Tomb Raider versus just upping the res of the 3dfx version. Texture warping, however wasn't fixed and the clipping issues you already mention were still present. IIRC, it doesn't work for some games because of some specific optimization to the 3d or whatever, but that's probably already been addressed since it was some time ago when I tested this shit out. Example: Parasite Eve when I last tested it in EPSXE versus PCSX-R or whatever. PGXP option didn't work in whatever revision of EPSXE I tested, but the one for PCSX-R did.

>>5970494
Speaking of texture wobbling, I remember one of the Dino Crisis games inexplicably retaining it for the PC version. Does that mean they copied the entire texture drawing routine from the PS1 and left it unchanged?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs_hNQJ061U

>>5970678
Possibly, same thing happened with Resident Evil 3. It wasn't until the Gamecube release that that was fixed, but the fix didn't make it into the Sourcenext version for whatever reason.

Nintentards saying fog with lower-resolution textures with shit filtering is superior to perfect pixels soft shading is honestly sad. N64 ruins this game's whole aesthetic.

>>5970740
>>5970739
Fog gives it more atmosphere and mystery, also look at how far back the N64 pops in the word police compared to the PS1.

>>5970332
OP is using emulator shots with things like supersampling, texture packs, antialiasing, etc. Basically not comparing how the games actually look but comparing how well the game is on the emulator after being tricked out with all these customizations.

>>5970771
>Fog gives it more atmosphere and mystery
On what looks to be a sunny, partially cloudy day? That shit only works under certain conditions.

>look at how far back the N64 pops in the word police compared to the PS1

Means jack shit if the higher res sign in the N64 version is of comparable resolution to the lower res sign in the ps1 version, which was already visible at the beginning of the video.

Honestly, all these videos really do is highlight how these games were programmed with lower resolutions in mind... I wanna see the pc version, see how it handles all these LOD models.

>>5970827
>texture packs
Neither of these games have texture packs.

Guys, both are good because they both have Tron Bonne

>>5967476
Cartridge constraints, outsourcing, and n64 having a vastly different architecture and hardware layout compared to ps1. Kids on this board don't understand that back then multiplats and ports weren't just a matter of making the game on Windows and then slapping it onto an Xbox because everything ran on nearly the exact same shit, everything was built differently and you had to master advanced coding to work within/around the way they were built. Even PCs running Windows would have very specific constraints if the components inside were different, most notable when the early 90's dedicated gpu card wars occurred between the dozen or so manufacturers with their own special snowflake rendering solutions, not like now where it's only amd and nvidia and both use Direct X for 99.9999% of the games and OpenGL the rest.
This is why games like MML and Gex were trash on N64 but Glover and Gauntlet Legends on PS1 were hot garbage. If the devs didn't understand how the console worked, they weren't gonna turn out a good version of the game for it, and as it turned out games tended to be designed for only one of the systems to avoid wasting money and time.

>>5970839
It doesn't help that Megaman Legends in particular is one of the most finely crafted games out there in terms of its use of the PS1's hardware and working within its visual limitations. If they totally remade it from the ground up for N64, I'm sure such a talented team could've made a game that looked different, but also leveraged the hardware exceptionally well. As it stands, MML on N64 is a pretty okay stab at taking an incredibly Playstation optimized visual style and making it work on N64.

>>5970365
>higher native rendering resolution
Because these early 3D games were so complicated and our lives are empty without seeing that such minute detail in those graphics.

>>5970926
>>5970927
Still not enough. Can you record longplays of both entire games and post them as a side by side compare video on youtube?

>>5971008
Sure, could you just do all the technical stuff like making it so I can play both games on the same controller, editing out the downtime, and converting/rending them for upload for me?

>>5970558
>says best version is PC
>N-n-n-intendo fanboy!
Sony fan, are you even trying?

I've got the PC version installed now. Anyone familiar with the PC version? Is there a way to increase the resolution? Turn off the texture filtering? People were saying there were sound issues which is true the music doesn't loop properly and it randomly cuts out at times.

>>5970739
>>5970740
>>5970828
>I wanna see the pc version, see how it handles all these LOD models.
Here.

>>5970840
>>5970841
>>5970926
>>5970927
are these emulator comparisons?
if so, it wouldnt be an accurate comparison

The transitions are jarringly instant on this version. I'm not sure if it's a pro or a con. All the other version have this fade out and fade in as you transition between areas but this one is a split second.

>>5971098
>>5971109
Looks like emulating the PSX version is the way to go.

>Data still talks about Memory Cards
Seriously, is this a meme? This is a meme, isn't it? Every port of Mega Man Legends is so lazy, and the one that had the most effort is objectively worse so you might as well stick with original.

So if you switch the PC version over to Software rendering mode you get the transitions back along with it disabling texture filtering.

Why no pc version easy to find

Although software mode is not some magic bullet, look at how it fucks up the top of the pole in this scene.

This might be from me running this on a modern PC but along with all the other issues with the port , but this is my result. If someone with more experience with this port wants to correct me be my guest.

>>5971262
I actually had a physical bigbox copy of it in my closet that I forgot about.

>>5971169
I'd say.

>>5971375
>>5971378
>>5971380
BATTLE OF THE PORTS

not /vr/, but the PSP versions are worth considering.

They're Japanese only, the PSP lacks L2/R2 buttons, but you get native widescreen!

>>5971410
DS version is better.

>>5971420
there is no ds version, twerp

>>5971425
yes there is

>>5971430
No there isn't, you fucking dunce. Google it.

PS1, N64, PC, with rereleases on PSP and PS3.

>>5971098
>Is there a way to increase the resolution?
I imagine dgvoodoo2 can help deal with that.

Anyways, looks like the pc version deals with the buildings much better except for that stupid fog... Character models, however... It's like playing Mechwarrior 2 again.

>>5971107
Of course it's emulation. There's no way either of those versions display clearly in 800x600.

>>5971828
Thanks, that appears to be the missing ingredient.

>>5971098

>>5971270
>>5970841
>>5970840

>>5970926
>>5970927

>>5969157
the n64 version is able to simulate bad air quality

>>5967476
We need indie games like this. Throwbacks from the 90s. 4 guys in a basement could make this with todays tech right?

>>5972456
A Short hike is kinda close.

>>5970361
>You should mention that it's Japanese only.
That's a good thing.

>>5972518
If you read moon.

>>5972713
if you played the game before it isn't hard to figure out what to do

>>5972715
I remember getting stuck in that game quite a few times. Practically the whole first day of my 3 day rental was spent in the apple market because I didn't know how to progress far enough to get the ID card that let me into the city.

>>5972713
Which you should.

>>5972721
If you're a weeb.

>>5971467
yes there is

NDS > all other versions

>>5972998
I really want that to exist. I have feelings over it not existing.

>>5971262
https://www.myabandonware.com/game/mega-man-legends-dqv

>>5973345
thanks

>>5972998
the unused 3D models in BN5DS are pretty close to this games aesthetic.

https://youtu.be/mrGIQE3_a4A

>>5974849
Why did they bother making these?

>>5974927
Probably initially was going to be 3D, but either gave up or got lazy.

>>5974849
The final game and the Star Force series also use the same style, just with a bigger polycount.

whats the appeal of legends gameplay? played a little but its just too boring(lock and circle the dude while shooting/jumping), it gets any better?.
i suppose people like it because of the characters and story.

>>5975219
>it gets any better?
Not in the first game, the second one as I recall, improves the formula a lot but even then it's till early 3D gameplay. A lot of early 3D games had really shitty combat and controls, have you tried playing the original Tomb Raiders recently, they're even worse. I was like 'how the fuck did I ever enjoy playing this' when I popped Tomb Raider 2 in my PS1.

>>5975219
the only reason you need to play is TRON

>>5975495
I think it's nuts that they went through the trouble of drawing all those faces specifically for one camera angle in one cutscene.

I think gameplay is great, but the real appeal with the game is that it feels like an anime.

Anyway I think MML2 is better in every single way.

>>5969560
But it’s got 64 bits!

>>5976531
This it's basically as strong as a PS2 because PS1 = 32bits and PS2 is PS1*2=PS2 and N64 is 64bits by default so 32*2 = 64 which is N64

>>5976523

>>5967481
That guy channel is cancer

>>5970380
Shut up

>>5970749
Are you S o y n y b o y (PS fanboi)

>>5972998
Mega man Legend 3 shouldn’t get cancelled for 3DS

>>5973245
F crapcom

Same goe drift at Tomb Rider and

>>5976768
Metal Gear DS

>>5975495
Give me context about this image in particular.

>>5976872
It's from the debug room in MML2 that's only accessible with a gameshark code.

>>5970551
Problem is that while the N64 was more powerful if you considered peak performance (meaning you write your own rsp code, which almost nobody did), but it was way too much effort to get that performance, and it was still hamstrung by other issues like the memory latency, cartridge capacity, and having a texture scratchpad instead of a proper cache.

>>5976872
I should also mention the Tron you're seeing there is the cutscene model and during cutscenes they use face textures that only work at single camera angle, that's why it looks like she's yawning sideways.

>>5970678
The texture drawing routine was hardware functionality. They probably wrote a simulator for PCs so they could see what it would look like during development, and reused it for the pc port.

>>5969805
Aren't you the guy that thought the game ran at 60fps on PC?

>>5976909
It does, you just have to edit the .exe in a hex editor.

>>5976912
It's hard locked at 30fps, all game logic is tied to the frame rate. Why you always gotta lie PC gamers?

>>5976974
Nah, just edit it in a hex editor, works perfectly.

>>5976897
Interesting, any examples of games you know for a fact did this?

>>5970827
I really hate that people keep posting upscaled emulated screenshots on this board and act like it proves or means anything.

>>5978548
>act like it proves or means anything.
It proves which version you should emulate.

>>5976430
>>5975495
I think it's nuts these two images have roughly the same file size.

>If I use the japanese name I'll sound smarter
Anon, I agree with you that Megaman 64 sucks dick, but just go fuck yourself.

>>5972214
aesthetic

>>5972456
One short from Love Death Robots looks like this.

I had MM64 as a kid. Only recently played MML and have yet to play MML2. I did enjoy MM64 and there were no major differences I don't think but yeah it's objectively lower quality.
>>5977021
>physics likely tied to 30fps
Yeah naw

Mega Man 64 is a decent version of the game, with its pros and cons. It's easier to see its flaws more than the things it got right though, especially comparing emulator upscalings, but it's still a serviceable way to play the game with some adjustments on the camera and controls, and just having it on cart format with its compromises and advantages. No loading times + 10 more save slots without the need of any memory card is a plus.
The more apparent flaws, which is the draw distance in open areas, are not a thing where most of the game takes place (underground dungeons).
Also, sound on MM64 is pretty good, in terms of BGM and SFX, the problem are the voice tracks which are very muffled.
Low quality voice tracks don't alter my enjoyment of the game, personally. So I'll put up with that, and extra fog on open areas for the advantages of the cart and the small improvements on the camera.

>>5979085
>Mega Man 64
>decent
>pros
You're funny.

>>5980086
I described the pros, as well as the cons, but sure, I'm "funny".
Sadly there's no definitive version of this game, as all versions have their owns pros and cons.

>>5980160
>Sadly there's no definitive version of this game
Except the PSP.

>>5980256
What pros does it have over the other versions? It's an UMD so it still has loadings.

>>5980657
No censorship
native widescreen

>>5980689
>No censorship
I guess you're talking about the cat girl magazine that got censored on the PS1 version right?
Also not sure if widescreen for a game that was originally developed for 4:3 is a pro. Does it at least have the option to play in 4:3 if I don't want wide ratio?