/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5958407
That game was released after the Saturn was long dead. Compare it to, I dunno, the Shenmue Saturn footage if you want to be fair.

or you can compare X-men vs Street Fighter on both consoles.

>>5958407
It couldn't, that's why it sold 3 units while the PSX sold millions.

>>5958415
>Compare it to, I dunno, the Shenmue Saturn footage if you want to be fair.
The Shenmue demo had no special effects like the car tail-lights and ran at like 5-10 fps. All that's impressive about it is the sheer number of polygons they coaxed the Saturn into displaying.

Not to mention the UV texture mapping which is literally impossible on Saturn.

>>5958416
>sold 3 units

>>5958426
Well it's not impossible, you just have to do it in software, which is costly.

As a big PSX fan can I just say, how could the PSX compete?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqbXtAagX2A

What game?

Yeah, yeah, PSX could do better 3D than Saturn, but Saturn can do better 2D than the PSX. And as we all know, 2D > 3D especially when it comes to retro games.

>>5959838
Imagine being this faggot.

>>5959838
This is a lie. Saturn couldn't into transparencies.

>>5960459
This is a lie, the Saturn can do transparencies

Saturn could have competed if Sony didn't have a near-infinite cache of cash to throw at developers to make killer aps and buying out studios.

It had strong support for first party arcade style Sega games such as Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter and Sega Rally Championship, and it had a lot of unique and interesting exclusive titles like Radiant Silvergun and Shinrei Jusatsushi Tarōmaru (pictured). It was a console that had strong software support in Japan, but in the USA compared to the Playstation 1 it was a joke, especially on account of how popular sports and racing games are in the USA.

>>5960597
Okay, Saturn could barely into transparancies.

>>5960995
>>5960597
All these processors and they couldn't do what the SNES could do in 1991?

>>5960995
>>5961002

Actually it does it the exact same was as the Super Nintendo. It does 50/50 blending on VDP1 sprites, VDP2 can do more advanced blending on backgrounds. The additional limitations with VDP1 however come from the dual VDP setup and the use of distorted sprites in 3D:

1) It's slow. It takes 6x longer to render a 50/50 blended sprite than it does to render a normal one.
2) It can either blend with VDP1 objects or VDP2 objects, not both. So if it blends with VDP2 objects, any VDP1 object it overlaps with will be erased. Same is true with the reverse.
3) Due to the fact that the Saturn draws distorted sprites instead of actual rasterized polygons, you get tons of pixel overdraw. For normal sprites this is fine. With transparencies though you end up with some pixels overlapping with each other causing 50/50 blending of an already 50/50 blended pixel. This corrupts the transparency which you can actually see in the Sonic R shot.

In 2D games though issue 3 can be avoided as you shouldn't be distorting sprites. 1 and 2 still remain though, however some games have clever ways of working around them.

>>5960874
>>5960995

Actually it does it almost the exact same way as the Super Nintendo. It does 50/50 blending on VDP1 sprites, VDP2 can do more advanced blending on backgrounds. The additional limitations with VDP1 however come from the dual VDP setup and the use of distorted sprites in 3D:

1) It's slow. It takes 6x longer to render a 50/50 blended sprite than it does to render a normal one.

2) It can either blend with VDP1 objects or VDP2 objects, not both. So if it blends with VDP2 objects, any VDP1 object it overlaps with will be erased. Same is true with the reverse.

3) Due to the fact that the Saturn draws distorted sprites instead of actual rasterized polygons, you get tons of pixel overdraw. For normal sprites this is fine. With transparencies though you end up with some pixels overlapping with each other causing 50/50 blending of an already 50/50 blended pixel. This corrupts the transparency which you can actually see in the Sonic R shot.

In 2D games though issue 3 can be avoided as you shouldn't be distorting sprites. 1 and 2 still remain though, however some games have clever ways of working around them.

>>5959771
Why is Duke like 3 feet tall in the Saturn version?

>>5961002

>>5961150

>>5958407
Only TWO processors. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wFzKraJOC2M

>>5961002

>>5958407

>>5961150
Only ONE PROCESSOR. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wFzKraJOC2M

>>5961287
Pretty badass Sega got the Borg to make a commercial. Also the Sega yell is the best thing all of mankind has ever created.

>>5960995

>>5961359
Here's another https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hv1BE1bexCg

>>5959771
if you do like 5 seconds of research and also pay attention to that fucking video youd know that the saturn version had shit textures and shading which let it have a higher framerate. jesus just pa attention to that video. in no way whatsoever could the saturn ever outperform the psx

>>5960597
>>5961872
you also have to remember that Jon Burton is literally brilliant and he would engineer techniques no one could even dream of

>>5961872
This is a mesh on real hardware fool

>>5962280
too bad this game is shit

>>5962285
i used to think this back in the day but its actually not bad desu

>>5962287
dude i want it not to be. i own every sonic game on the genesis cept for this one cuz i always hated it. it has good music.. but the gameplay is clunky and not fun man

>>5962285
I unironically really enjoy the Saturn version. It’s my go-to for a quick fun little game. I played through it a few weeks ago on my iPad, the soundtrack and fog is maximum comfy

>>5958407
I don't believe you've ever played a Saturn a day in your life.

>>5961287
>>5961359
>>5961929
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kw-KT4B_Nys
Saturn had buckethead so they win

>>5960597
This is also the game where they programmed a tri-based engine because the Saturn's quad-based 3D handling is garbage.

>>5962384
Yeah, most people haven't played Saturn. It was dead on arrival.

Early games were pretty comparable on both but in 1997 they figured out how to increase performance by a lot on ps1. Sega was at first expecting to compete with Nintendo, it would have been more even that way.

>>5962703
The visuals in Saturn games also improved significabtly in 1997 and into its last few games of 1998. It would have been fascinating to see what Saturn games would have looked like in 2000.

>>5962384
What do you want, a timestamp of my Saturn? The Saturn had great games and I personally think the super library when everything was said and done, but there's no denying the PSX was in another graphical league. And the gulf between them only broadened as time passed.

>>5962270
Textures look the same, friend.

Why is the lighting on Saturn so much better too?

Since this is the saturn thread:

Can you just imagine how amazing a dedicated Castlevania game would have been on the system? SotN was built for the playstation, and it got a rushjob port, so it doesn't count. A new game built from the ground up would have fantastically smooth animations, detailed backgrounds, cd audio. They could have recycled a lot of Rondo/Symphony sprites too.

>>5963089
I wonder why Konami wanted to port that shitty game instead of one of their good PSX games like Gradius Gaiden.

>>5963089
>and it got a rushjob port
kinda but not really, sotn is just not a good fit for saturn's hardware

>>5958407
Sega GT

>>5958407
Them jiggly polys

>>5962291
It's not clunky unless you have cerebral palsy. If you got good you'd know it's a very fun game.

>>5963315
>sotn is just not a good fit for saturn's hardware
It's quite literally a perfect fit. A 2D game with the odd bit of 3D thrown in.

Saturn > PSX

>>5958407
Yeah type4 is a fine game thats why I bought it twice, 3 times if the PS classics does count

>>5963925
On surface it does feel like a perfect fit, in practice it's not. The game was *designed* from the ground up to work with the PS1 hardware in mind. That's why there's so much background tiles on VDP1, why there are more loading times even though the Saturn has twice as much RAM. If you really wanted to port SOTN to the Saturn, you'd have to redesign it from the ground up.

>>5966240
That laziness was a plague on all PS1 -> Saturn ports. But on the face of it, it's a game the Saturn should excel at.

Is there any info on what "Unholy massacre" difficulty is?

>>5966303
I'm telling you it's not just laziness, without some compromises or a change in scope regarding design, SOTN would still not have run as well as the PS1 version did, no matter what optimization magic you throw in there. Okay, maybe that's a bit too much of a gamble, but what killed Saturn version was staying true to the PS1 original, through and through.

>>5962270
It looks way better and has dynamic lighting, is full 3d and runs better. You're just jelly

>>5962270
COPE

>>5966303
It's not a question of laziness. The Saturn simply has no rendering mode that can do sprite transparency, gouraud shading, background transparency, have a high colour cant, and is also fast. You can pick like 2 out of 5 normally, 3 out of 5 if you build the entire game from the ground up with the Saturn limitations in mind.

SOTN uses an extreme amount of transparent effects, gouraud shading (you see how Alucard shines in different ways in this gif? that's all gouraud shading on the sprite), and like half the backgrounds have some polygonal effect you'd have to ditch in favour of VDP2 ones, if you wanted to retain transparency effects on the Saturn.

It's why the extra dungeons have more transparent effects than anything else, they were built ground up for the hardware.

Also the small problem that the hardware can't do 256px resolution like the PSX, so everything gets stretched and also uses more VRAM.