/vr/ - Retro Games

>>591994
OP, plenty of us Americans of the rotund variety enjoy PC games, it's just that /vr/ is nothing but Nintendo and Square babbies.

So please don't act as if /vr/ represents all gamers.

>>591998

Nothing wrong with Nintendo and Squaresoft.

Besides, /vr/ gets plenty of Doom and Nethack love.

>>591998
he doesn't get that the US computer game scene isn't really the same as the Euro one

US=dungeon crawlers and flight sims
Yurop=scroller games (like in OP pic)

Well for one, Commodores, Amigas, and the like were not nearly as prevalent in the US than other countries. And even DOS / Mac games paled in comparison to consoles.

Basically, not many people hold them nostalgic compared to console games.

>>592029

I'm here because I hate modern games.

>>592021
>Basically, not many people hold them nostalgic compared to console games

Most of us probably aren't here for nostalgia so much as to post about video games anywhere but /v/

>>592016
That's a huge oversimplification.

>>592021

>Nostalgia

That should have nothing to do with it. Most people on /vr/, it seems like, are always looking to play retro games they had never played before. Retro console games are just more popular in general.

...Unless it's on the Turbografx or something.

>>592021
C64 was plenty popular here, Amiga less so

>>592031
That has a hell of a lot to do with it for many people.

>>592031
>That should have nothing to do with it. Most people on /vr/, it seems like, are always looking to play retro games they had never played before

Given that most people here are 20-23, I doubt they could be nostalgic for anything pre-N64. Which is why I don't think that's a major factor.

Probably because these threads always devolve into location and nationalism war threads within the first few posts rather than discussion of the key subject matter.
Glad to see you wasting no time with it OP.
Also it's 8:45 am on the east coast of the states, that could be another reason.

>>592039

Nostalgia only takes you so much. Only so much you can talk about with games you've already played.

Nostalgia fuel died out quick. Some people just like retro games in general and they're the ones who really stick around.

>>592039
There are two principle kinds of retro gamers

1. Nostalgiafags. These guys are casual plebs who should go back to /v/.
2. Hipsters. Guys who weren't around for the NES or whatever era but who are the video game equivalent of Youtube kiddies that listen to dadrock.

>>592045
And how many of those people like retro games because of the nostalgia factor?
Probably a majority.

Hell, I feel nostalgia to old games as a whole, nothing specific.

>>592047
No, it's the people who think "casual pleb" has anything to do with /vr/.
There's no such thing in the world of /vr/ because we don't give a shit what people choose to play.

We only care about what they play it on and with what filters.

>>592048

Or maybe because there are certain conventions that are more prevalent in retro games that most modern games don't have?

>Probably a majority

I'm sure you're probably maybe not really possibly sort of correct.

>>592048
>And how many of those people like retro games because of the nostalgia factor?

I would say the majority of retro games I've played weren't from when I was a kid because if I did, I'd just have some shit 90s kiddie eduware and multimedia demos. Thus not nostalgia.

>>592047

I never owned an NES but I genuinely love NES games though.

>>592047
>Nostalgiafags: Casual plebs that should go back to /v/.

>Hipsters: Guys who weren't around for the NES era, which are the video game equivalent of YouTube kiddies that listen to dadrock

Your definition is incorrect.

>>592047
>Guys who weren't around for the NES or whatever era but who are the video game equivalent of Youtube kiddies that listen to dadrock
And apologize for their generation ruining video games (?)

>>592054
Just like that.

"Hurp I wish I was alive in 1981 to hang out with cool people who played Space Invaders. thumbs up if you think Black Ops is gay."

>>592058

But Space Invaders is awesome.

I agree that many games from when you were a kid have aged too badly or weren't any good when they were new.

If I had to take a guess, at least 60% of the stuff I had as a kid is unplayable now.

Maybe Amiga threads would get more replies if they didn't turn into America vs Europe shitposting in 5 posts.

Christ why is the board so shitty during European prime time?
Is school already out over there for the summer?

Anyways American here, still have my C64 with a ton of games, and an Amiga 2000 with a ton of games.
Of course no one wants to discuss the games themselves but rather devolve this into a meta shitposting fest.

Amiga was well-supported by US game developers in the late 80s, but it had almost no original games and nearly everything was a port from the PC

>>592067
I'm terribly sorry that you have no health care, Jamaal.

I dunno; reading archived Usenet posts from the 87-94 period certainly gives the impression that the Amiga had a vocal US following.

>>592074
Old Usenet posts are a pretty poor gauge of anything because in those days, the only people online were neckbeards, ie the guys who played computer games. I would almost certainly say that far more middle class American families had a NES or Genesis than an Amiga.

>>592047
So either way, people on /vr/ should only be faggots then?

>>592079
think I remember reading that in 1990, 1 in 5 American households had an NES or something. that's pretty crazy.

>>592082
I couldn't give you similar figures for home computer penetration in Europe, but it must have been high. Even over in commieland there were tons of Sinclair knockoffs mostly made in East Germany.

>592084
I'm Polish. that was because COMECON made decision to promote computer literacy. one of the benefits of a planned economy.

I still love the Amiga but I can see why it doesn't get the adoration some feel it deserves. It had a weird lifecycle. In the early days there were a lot of ropey direct ports from lesser systems like the ST, and in the late stages the PC and consoles were really beginning to show some superiority in their respective niches thanks to Commodore's bungling and the reluctance of people to develop for anything but the ubiquitous 1MB A500.

As a newcomer to the system it's hard to know where to start in terms of enjoying those golden years in the middle, and I'd argue a lot of that output is quirky and uniquely 'European' in a way that's difficult to put a finger on, and that tends to put off uninitiated Americlaps. Exclusives might be unheard of outside of the scene, and it's difficult to know which multiplats are at their best on the system - there are plenty but there are also plenty that are better played elsewhere these days.

A big part of what made the system great I think you kind of had to be there for, too. Where the Amiga really shone was as an all-rounder. It had everything, even to its dying day. Sure lots of the console ports might not be the most polished by the end, and in the later days heavier DOS titles had to be pared down a bit, but here was this little underdog from the damned 1980s still holding its own like a champ and throwing open every aspect of gaming at 1/10th of the cost of a good PC. These machines were OURS too, in a way PCs seldom were to kids of that age. PCs were office machines, family owned systems, etc. By contrast most felt a real sense of ownership over their Miggy. People were introduced to programming, piracy, the demo scene, BBSes and the like all on a machine that was theirs and theirs alone. That's where the fierce loyalty comes from.

>>592107
>Sure lots of the console ports might not be the most polished by the end
Amiga had the best port of Bad Dudes
>and in the later days heavier DOS titles had to be pared down a bit
Civilization and X-COM I take it?
>These machines were OURS too, in a way PCs seldom were to kids of that age. PCs were office machines, family owned systems, etc. By contrast most felt a real sense of ownership over their Miggy.
You forget that Amiga was widely used as a productivity computer in Europe. In fact in some cases they were used in office settings more than PCs.

PCs were slow to penetrate Europe because the software and OSes were in English which made them unsellable in Germany, Poland, Netherlands, etc. Either because the people there couldn't speak English or local regulations required translated software. This wasn't an issue for Amiga since software dev tools came with a translator utility that you just fed your source code into and it would convert all text on the fly into the target language.

>>592125
>Civilization and X-COM I take it?
Right...anything after VGA became standard was generally not as good on Amiga while if you look at stuff from the 85-89 period, the PC port is nearly always inferior.

>>592125
>Civilization and X-COM I take it?
And a few other bits and pieces. Syndicate, the later LucasArts adventures, etc. Though the improved PC version usually came at the expense of shitty soundblaster audio, so what you'd rather play could be open to debate.

>You forget that Amiga was widely used as a productivity computer in Europe. In fact in some cases they were used in office settings more than PCs.
Indeed. I'm speaking strictly from the experience of a Britfag as it's all I can do. Since people here seemed to cling to their old A500s for dear life it saw much less use as a productivity machine than the rest of Europe as I understand it. The ST took the audio side of things over here, and the PC was already beginning to take the office.

>>592107
>As a newcomer to the system it's hard to know where to start in terms of enjoying those golden years in the middle, and I'd argue a lot of that output is quirky and uniquely 'European' in a way that's difficult to put a finger on, and that tends to put off uninitiated Americlaps

Of course it's that way with Japanese stuff too, but then weeaboo culture means that neckbeards will go out of their way to translate obscure SNES RPGs

>>592143
>Though the improved PC version usually came at the expense of shitty soundblaster audio

If you were rich, you could have a Roland MT-32 instead of Adlib or Soundblaster

>Since people here seemed to cling to their old A500s for dear life it saw much less use as a productivity machine than the rest of Europe as I understand it

Pity though as 32-bit Amigas were only relevant in continental Europe

>The ST took the audio side of things over here

They did have Atari STs in Murka, although I think like 5 people owned one. But sometimes on Ebay you can find games for them (usually an inferior port of LucasArts or Microprose games)

There's a big Amiga thread right on front page, check the catalog next time
>>577308

>>592162
That thread is 90% Amigafags jerking off to their dear dead leader and talking about some hardware and software shit that only other Amigafags understand. Remaining 10% are Yuropoors jerking off to Metroid clone that nobody but them played.

>>592179
Turrican is better than Metroid and you know it, Claps

>>592154
>Pity though as 32-bit Amigas were only relevant in continental Europe
It is a shame. Commodore were notoriously bad at pushing new stuff over here, which didn't help matters, and when they went under and the Amiga license changed hands we were all but forgotten about.

Makes it a real pain in the arse to get your hands on upgrades over here. I wound up having to turn to Germany to get my hands on a 030 board that didn't cost the earth.

>>592179
>>592186
This is why we can't have nice things.
Rather than ignore a thread they have no knowledge on, people choose to shitpost and ruin it like /vr/ is /v/

>>592186
>>592179
I tried C64 Turrican once on VICE but had no clue what the fuck I was doing. That aside, it was pretty technically impressive but could have used some music (C64 games have to make the unfortunate trade off between in-game music and sfx due to technical limitations)

>>592197
>(C64 games have to make the unfortunate trade off between in-game music and sfx due to technical limitations)

Usually, but a few games like Robocop let you select either

>>592179
Amiga will rise again like the South will rise again

>>592197
C64 version is considered better since it has more secrets, harder boss fights and better collision detection. But graphics and music are better on Amiga.

>>592239
>>592197
I would also say that Dizzy was better on the original 8-bit games. The Amiga versions look and sound nicer but somehow lose their charm.

>>592197
>(C64 games have to make the unfortunate trade off between in-game music and sfx due to technical limitations)

There's not enough memory to fit both because the C64's scrolling is incredibly clunky and uses way more system resources than on the NES. All the space you save on the latter can be used for more music.

>>592042
>Probably because these threads always devolve into location and nationalism war threads within the first few posts rather than discussion of the key subject matter

Earlier I made a thread about Shamus and instead of discussing the game, people just shitposted the thread to death and I had to put it out of its misery (if you saw that thread, I got rid of it and not the janitor)

>>592154
>Though the improved PC version usually came at the expense of shitty soundblaster audio
>If you were rich, you could have a Roland MT-32 instead of Adlib or Soundblaster

And it doesn't matter nowadays since you can just select any sound card you want in DOSBox

Amigas are token Yurop machines. The highlight of PC gaming began in 1991, and on DOS. Not amiga. There was fantastic titles prior to this but good luck convincing a 20-28 age bracket to play 'em, I sure as fuck won't.

murrica stronk

>>592310
It all kind of depends on what it is you're playing. A lot of the soundtracks on Amiga to PC ports still sound awful just because the original tracks were never meant to be reproduced on MIDI hardware. Even the cream of the crop cards sound duff.

Stuff like the Alien Breed games, Chaos Engine, Cannon Fodder, Gods, etc are a few of the games that spring to mind, but there are plenty of others. Generally anything where the PC wasn't the lead platform suffers.

By contrast it literally doesn't get any better than playing MIDI-focused stuff like the Lucasarts games on an MT-32. I'd love to get my hands on the actual hardware to make that happen some day.

>>592386
>The highlight of PC gaming began in 1991, and on DOS. Not amiga.
>PC gaming
>began in 1991
LOLwut
>There was fantastic titles prior to this but good luck convincing a 20-28 age bracket to play 'em
What does being 20 have to do with anything

>>592529
I meant that they're not good enough (meaning 80s-era stuff) to be appreciated without nostalgia goggles)

>>592558
Whoawhoawhoa. You just said two completely contradictory things in >>592386.

>There was fantastic titles prior to this
>but good luck convincing a 20-28 age bracket to play 'em, I sure as fuck won't

On one hand you said Amiga (?) had fantastic titles and in the other you said they're too primitive and not worth playing without nostalgia goggles.

>>592529
>What does being 20 have to do with anything

He means that he's a /v/ babby who only discusses MK64 or whatever shit he had when he was in the 1st grade

>>592567
Okay one of those kind. Nuts to them.

>>592568
...but aren't we mostly here because of nostalgia? if I'm 20 and American I sure couldn't find any nostalgia factor in Turrican.

>>592567
More correctly, the guy is a tripfag. Perhaps you overlooked that.

>implying trips have any relevant opinion

>>592581
Maybe you are, but why assume you speak for the entire board.

>>592529
>PC gaming
>began in 1991
>LOLwut
That _good_ gaming began in 1991. Not CGA or whatever shit existed before that.

>>592592
Since apparently you already decided that gaming before a certain arbitrary date isn't any good, there's no point in trying to argue with you.

That and your two mutually exclusive statements in >>592386

>>592595
don't forget that he's a subhuman tripfag

>>592595
I did _not_ make mutually exclusive statements, you stupid fuck

>>592595
trying to have discussions with tripfags usually is pointless.

>>592602
*sigh* Let me do this again so you can get it through your thick /v/tarded skull

>There was fantastic titles prior to this
>but good luck convincing a 20-28 age bracket to play 'em, I sure as fuck won't

Do you not see the logic fail in this? On one hand you say there were good PC games made <1991 and in the next sentence you say they're horribly antiquated and unplayable without the hindsight of nostalgia.

>>592606
>>592598
HURR ANONYMOOSE IS LEEJUN

Fuck off back to /b/

>>592615
It is a pretty silly statement since /vr/ has demonstrated that we're perfectly willing to discuss Ultima and Wizardry games the bulk of which are from the 80s.

>>592619
Stay mad, trippy

>>592386
>I sure as fuck won't.
Why? Also why are you even posting on this board if you're so young and/or playing old games scares you so much? I don't get it.
Another question, how do you know there are "fantastic titles" if you've never played them?

Why are you talking out of your ass, why is your knwoledge and taste in video games so bad and why are you proud of it?

If Mr. GT3000 had any brain function, he would have written something like "There were no good games prior to 1991 good luck convincing people born after 1985 to play them."

>>592629
If he had any brain function, he wouldn't be a tripfag

>>592631
True dat

>>592627
>Why? Also why are you even posting on this board if you're so young and/or playing old games scares you so much?

Likely he was run out of /v/ because even they wouldn't have him

>>592619

You now realize how much better 4chan would be if Moot abolished trips

>>592642
Nah, we need tripcodes to expose the idiots of the site

>Amiga thread goes to complete shit
It's just like every Amiga thread on /vr/ ever

Amiga was well-supported by American devs of the late 80s, but more often than not they were mediocre PC ports as if they didn't really care about it (and why should they since by 1988 all the money to be made in computer gaming was on PCs)

>>592647

The delicious irony is that a tripfriend's ego prevents them from removing their own trip and thus removing the stigma against themselves

>>592657
Microprose usually had good Amiga ports but their copy protection schemes were horrible. LucasArts and Sierra only had sloppy games on there with poor sound. Most of the arcade ports for Amiga were in fact made by Eurodevs and distributed in the US by some publisher so we didn't even make most of those.

>>592681
Example: US release of BB for the Amiga, but the game was actually developed by UK-based Software Creations

>>592619
Every post you've made in this thread seems to be the embodiment of a thick headed hipster, exactly the typical tripfag.
>Amigas are token Yurop machines. The highlight of PC gaming began in 1991, and on DOS. Not amiga. There was fantastic titles prior to this but good luck convincing a 20-28 age bracket to play 'em, I sure as fuck won't.
>...but aren't we mostly here because of nostalgia? if I'm 20 and American I sure couldn't find any nostalgia factor in Turrican.
>I did _not_ make mutually exclusive statements, you stupid fuck
>Amigas are token Yurop machines. The highlight of PC gaming began in 1991, and on DOS. Not amiga. There was fantastic titles prior to this but good luck convincing a 20-28 age bracket to play 'em, I sure as fuck won't

>>592649
because
>>592042
That and all the shitposters unfortunately aren't tripfags, so can't filter em all.

>>592008
>Nothing wrong with Nintendo and Squaresoft.
There is, but let's keep shit relevant to computing.

>>592696
This was also true of C64 arcade ports. This is the UK release which was made by Firebird Software (I believe all US versions of BB had the red box)

>>592707
For comparison, PC Bubble Bobble was made by US-based Novalogic

>>592707
>>592696
Wow how sad. Americans couldn't even do arcade ports on the Amiga; they had to rely on us for that.

>>592723
The crash utterly gutted our gaming industry. Pre-crash arcade ports were done by American devs but essentially everything from the late 80s was from a Japanese dev (if console) or Euro dev (if computer). Most American devs active in the 85-90 period were guys like Microprose who made strategy or whatever titles and had no interest in arcade games.

We didn't do our own arcade conversions for the Amiga because of a lack of devs who were able and/or interested in it. The only exception was PC arcade ports as they didn't develop games for them in Europe.

>>592732
Basically that any devs who relied primarily on arcade games didn't survive 1983-85. Activision, Sierra, and Microprose didn't go under because their primary focus was computer-based sims, adventures, and RPGs which was a market safely insulated from the crash.

>>591994
I had this game on the Mega Drive. I never knew it was also on the computer, nice to find out these little things.

I was a poor 90's kid. We couldn't afford any computer games. Most of my childhood consoles were from pawn shops.

>>592732
>The only exception was PC arcade ports as they didn't develop games for them in Europe

Not an arcade port, but the DOS version of BTCC was made by a British developer (Special FX Software)

>>592750
forgot pic

>>592754
That game is funny because unlike most PC games of the late 80s period, it's strictly EGA/Tandy with no CGA support

>>592756
I guess the limeys hated CGA so much that they refused to include support for it in the game

>>592760
Britbro here

Most likely there was no CGA support in Batman because from the POV of the UK market, it was not needed. PCs didn't start coming here until the late 80s by which point all of them already had at least EGA graphics. American programmers had to support CGA because of the large existing user base of IBM XTs with it.

>>592767
Ok I get it. CGA was already passe by the time you saw PCs so no real reason to have that.

All versions of Batman TCC were made by SFX Software aside from the Apple II because (>Apple II >Britain >pick one)

>>592773
They tried selling Apple IIs here briefly but it failed because you couldn't have any colour on a PAL TV

>>592698
You can always filter words like amerifat, eurofag, muh, pleb, etc. That removes 90% of the shitposters.

On topic: I'm in the US and grew up playing nothing but PC games. Several of my friends did the same.

>>592048
Or people just want to play genres that are not significantly represented in modern games or have lost their way (FPS, most platformers).

>>592820
>Or people just want to play genres that are not significantly represented in modern games

Space shooters don't really exist anymore. Not sure what other extinct genres there are.

>or have lost their way (FPS)

I know, I know, I know. FPSes are not as great as when you were 6 years old and played Goldenfag with your friends.

>>592624
>>592619
>>592615
>>592606
>>592602
>>592598
>>592595
>>592592
>>592581


Check your tripcodes. I didn't type anything but my intital "murrica stronk" post.

I didn't pick an arbitrary point in time. Please refer to this link since the image is too big. http://information2share.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/list-of-worthwhile-dos-games.jpg
I don't even hang out on /v/, my home boards are /g/ and /k/. I visit /vr/ for the Doom, HOMM, and BST threads.

>>592839
Nice projecting.
No, I didn't play Goldeneye and other unplayable console shooters because I grew up with PCs and played Id shooters like Wolf3d, Doom and notably Return to Castle Wolfenstein, one of my favorites.
I don't like regen bullshit and cinematic elements in my games. Just look at Max Payne 3, complete ruination of a great third person shooter because it had to be edgy and modern.

I love the Amiga.

It had a library of like a Billion games and many of them were great ones, too.

Even games inferior on the Amiga were still great, like Syndicate. (Unfortunatly, not every game though)

I will never forget Turrican, Another World and Globdule.

Also dat Soundchip was fucking amazing. Knowing about Trackers and all kinds of software made anything a fucking amazing experience and it pathed my way to understanding game development - and the process behind it - the way most others could not.

The PC gaming market got better in 1996 though. There was a heavy increase in avarage speed for the PC during 1993 when 468 DOS-based games became popular. Too bad that a true DooM-like FPS came out too late. I mean leading companies such as Shiny (Probably the most hyped-but-underrated company ever back then) and Bullfrog made their move and it was also the end of the 4th-gen and PlayStation became the next big thing. The Amiga - no matter what the fans say - had no place in that next generation of things.

Did you guys knew that Chris Taylor also programmed ports for the Amiga? He is just an example of many growing big devs back then. And Z was promoted as fuck because people knew BB from good old Amiga times and the company itself is still considered legendary, disprite having not released anything "awesome" since 1996. It's true that Gods can't die and anyone who lived through that time sure became a part of it.

If I understand correctly, you want to know why computers were the big game scene throughout the 80s in Europe, as opposed to the US where it was always consoles in the limelight.

I believe one good reason is that in the US, computers were still looked at as expensive business machines. Most of them were also built for those applications, not for games. Thus they had horrible scrolling and rendering tools compared to consoles like the NES.

Again though I'm really just guessing, I don't get why computers were so big in Europe.

>>592864
>Please refer to this link since the image is too big. http://information2share.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/list-of-worthwhile-dos-games.jpg

>relying on the opinion of someone else instead of your own
Besides that, a bunch of the games on there are <1991

Also...

>no Sierra games
>no Pirates!
>no Indy and the Last Crusade

What in the actual fuck

>>592920
>Again though I'm really just guessing, I don't get why computers were so big in Europe

The answer is really, really, really simple: Europe didn't have any consoles until nearly the end of the 80s so what were they supposed to game on?

>>592040

I'm 24 and grew up with a ZX81 and (later) a ZX Spectrum. Given that they provided my first introduction to both games and programming, I have plenty of nostalgia for them.

>>592920
First, programming and computer classes were mandatory in most schools thorough Europe, especially in Britain and Eastern Europe. So every kid was familiar with computers, when they were deciding between computer and console they would go for former. Second thing is that Nintendo had basically no presence on European market. They had official resellers in Britain, France and Germany and that's it. Few games were localised (big deal in Europe at that time, English was far from commonly spoken language), NTSC to PAL conversions would leave many games butchered or nearly uplayable (they simply changed the region chip without adapting the game for 50Hz and different resolution) and the prices on game cartridges were astronomical compared to computer games.
No matter how you look at it, buying NES or SNES marked you as an idiot in Eurolands. SEGA did put more effort in this as they adjusted prices for the regions, did proper conversions from NTSC and focused on arcade games that didn't need much in terms of localisation but even then, typical SMS or MD game would cost more than computer game and console was only slightly cheaper compared to your typical home computer.
It just made no sense to buy console when you could buy computer that played arcade quality games and ran all the useful software, all that for cheaper price.

>>592885
PCs didn't come into their own as gaming machines before the 90s because in the early days (1982-85) they were beaten out by Atari 8-bit/C64 and then in 86-90 by Amiga.

By the time sound cards and VGA were normal, Amiga was pretty much finished.

>There was a heavy increase in avarage speed for the PC during 1993 when 486 DOS-based games became popular

This is no doubt referring to the rise of protected mode games like X-COM

>Calling us Amerifats
>Why you hate us?

Well there you go. Also, I adore PC games. The only problem I had with PC games when I was younger was that we didn't have a good computer and my parents would gladly spend 200 dollars on a console, but not nearly 500 for a computer.

>>592808
>pleb

Funny how an Anime series can make such an uncommon word such as plebeian popular.

Typical for 4chan I guess.

>>592940
Oh well certainly it's quite possible you encountered stuff that family members had laying around in the attic or whatever. Not as if all 8-bit hardware magically disappeared from the Earth on January 1, 1991.

>>592951
Britbro here. You forget also that computer game devs had complete freedom to do anything they wanted instead of be subjected to Nintendo and Sega's arbitrary rules.

>>592581
Hey man, I'm here for the gauntlets. Got no nostalgia for any game I've gotten in that so far.

>this thread

How bout dat Halloween Harry?

>>592951
I downloaded a rom of the European version of Castlevania on accident once.
It seemed like it was playing at half speed. It's no wonder nobody cared about the system, Nintendo didn't give any shit to make it playable.

The consoles that people did play were Sega Master System and the Mega Drive, but even that was mostly on pirated consoles.

Lemme explain the American computer game scene a bit:

We always had consoles and generally associated arcade-style games with them. Of course a lot of arcade ports did exist for home computers in the early 80s, but that all got swept away by the crash. OTOH, the traditional American PC gamer have generally been adult neckbeards rather than children and so the emphasis has been on RPGs, simulations, and adventures.

The video game crash was a cataclysmic event that altered the entire course of both the computer and console industries here, and it left PC clones and Apple as the only relevant architectures here. Europe never experienced this sudden violent transition from the 8-bit to the 16-bit era.

>>592996
Link to the Past is the worst offender in this case:
extremely slow compared to NTSC version
localised versions had broken grammar (turns out that people responsible for German translation WEREN'T even native speakers)
to compensate for 50Hz slowdown, some bossed got a speed boost - but Link didn't, so it was nearly impossible to win those fights
No matter how you look at it, Nintendo shat on PAL regions. And so PAL regions shat on Nintendo.

No love for American games is not true. There were a lot of great software houses like Cinemaware, Epyx, Microprose and of course Lucasarts.

Poor Europe didn't get genius tactics like this thrown at them.

>mfw I've never used drugs but thought this was stupid to implement into our arcade games.

>>592996
>Nintendo didn't give any shit to make it playable.
No one did. Even on the PS2 there were games not properly adapted to PAL. Those games are slower than the NTSC games. That`s why we were importing, modding the consoles to 60hz or just pirate US and Jap games.

>>593036
I think they mean in terms of easily accessible arcade-style stuff. We did that shit on consoles while Yurop used Amigas to get their their side-scroller fix.

>>593008
There was a giant marketplace meltdown simply because the US is a huge country compared to Britain or Japan or whatever and we had way too many competing platforms in both the computer and console worlds.

>>593078
See above. The 8-bit era basically lasted 6-7 years longer in Europe. In short, technology moved faster here and computers with 48k of memory and 40-column text were no longer acceptable by 1988.

>>593054
SEGA had good PAL conversion, mostly because Europe and South America were their stronghold. It's also noteworthy that MegaDrive was probably the only console that was really BIG in Europe while even later consoles like PS1, PS2 or Xbox were pretty much just the "for people who can't afford decent computer". Eurpoors literally invented PCMASTURRACE snobs.

>>593092
I dont know about all of Europe, but here in Germany most kids had Amigas in the early 90s and PCs in the late 90s. Consoles were optional. When the Playstation was released, people who dont usually play games bought one, because everyone had one and it was easy to pirate. Before that consoles were bought by kids or otaku freaks.

>>593092
In fact they did such good conversion that almost PAL Master System games will work on an NTSC model with no problems.

Europe got most of the good SMS games while we were forced to play shit like Alf and King's Quest

I find it odd that the C64 and Amiga weren't more popular in America. You could get games much, much cheaper than consoles, even pirate them if you were so inclined.

At least on C64, American games tended to be these hefty multidisk suckers while Brit ones were small, single-load tape stuff.

Typical American C64 game: Winter Games

Typical Brit C64 game: Dizzy

If anything, the gameplay emphasis on our stuff was certainly different than theirs and at least part of it was influenced by their lack of disk drives which meant that games had to be short and simple.

>>593208
C64 was popular, Amiga really wasn't

>>593208
You underestimate the awesome marketing might of Nintendo in the late 80s. NES had all the cool games every 10 yo wanted. Amiga not so much.

>>593225
A lot more 10 yos in 1988 wanted to play Mega Man 2 than Gunship or whatever games were around for the Amiga back then

>>593267
And honestly, how many Amiga games were as legendary as Nintendo, Konami, Capcom, and Square's stuff? A ton of major franchises started on the NES.

>>593282
I think you just explained perfectly the cultural gap between American and Euro gamers. Since Nintendo was irrelevant over there, they never developed any attachment to Mario, Zelda, or Mega Man.

>>593287
>on some retro game site
>page for C64 Castlevania
>guy posts comment "C64 is supposed to be about great original games, not ports of Japcrap that inspire 10,000 shitty sequels and retarded fanboys"

Yup

>>593267
Oh yes, MegaMan, one of the games that gives away where you're from when you ask about it. American will start talking about boss fights and levels and shit while European will probably either say something along the lines of "Never played it" or "Yeah, I always liked <insert some europlatformer> more".
There were tons of games like that on C64 and Amiga in EU so nobody was too impressed by MegaMan there even if they did play it (most people didn't).

>>593287
The US has had close cultural/economic ties to Japan since the end of WWII. For example, we taught them how to play baseball and they adopted the NTSC standard for their TVs.

>>593318
>during the occupation period
>Japan gets exposed to American comic books and Bugs Bunny cartoon shorts
>some clever guys say "Hey, I can do that."

And the rest as they say is history

>>593287
That's true to some extent, but Mario and Sonic were very popular. Franchises were less popular with Euro gamers, they wanted more original characters.

>>593267
Example: Here's a couple US Amiga games

Do any of these look like they would interest children?

>>593342
You forget the marketing. Nintendo stuff was advertised relentlessly. Unless you went to a software store or browsed catalogs, how would you even know half those games existed?

>>593342
I would have been interested. Anyway those are cherry picked, there were plenty of kiddie friendly games.

>>593342
As someone who grew up playing games like that I have to say yes.

It's weird that an American developed company would be ignored in it's home region, but loved in Europe. Whereas a Japanese system would be loved in America.

>>593342
And typical Amiga games of the same period were Giana, Barbarian, Captain Blood, Nebulus, International Karate+ or Sentinel. Entirely different genres (some games being genre of their own) and generally games that were NEVER popular in America even for people who owned Amiga.

>>593376
What do you mean, Doc? All the best stuff is made in Japan.

>>593351
Reread the thread. Almost all arcade ports on Amiga were made by Eurodevs and converted to NTSC for the US market. That port of RI for instance was done by Ocean. So we actually didn't make much of any games on the Amiga except >>593342 kind of stuff

>>593413
We had some of those in the US (Barbarian and IK+ come to mind) but again all were developed by Euros and simply published here.

>Entirely different genres (some games being genre of their own)

Now you hit the nail on the head, Britbongs. We didn't do platformers on computers because that was what Nintendo and Sega were for.

>>593432
Yeah but just because they weren't coded in America it doesn't mean they weren't available in America.

>>593463
My point is more that US computer devs by the late 80s really had no interest in arcade games anymore and had almost completely shifted to dungeon crawlers and sims. It was different pre-crash of course.

>>592016
>Yurop= fucking everything
fix'd

I think that some US Amiga games were sold in Europe. Certainly Brits couldn't play our C64 games because >implying disk drives, but Germans went totally nuts for Maniac Mansion and Zak McKracken and the latter was more popular there than in its homeland.

>>593473
Don't get the impression that RPGs and strategy games were ever that popular in Europe

>>593490
You are correct; this is the UK release of Pirates!

>>593507
Britbro here

I say all's fair. America gave us Pirates and Maniac Mansion and we gave them arcade conversions.

>>593490
>Certainly Brits couldn't play our C64 games because >implying disk drives

Wasn't a big deal since most of them also had Amiga ports which we could easily use

Murrica gave me the first ever game I played too, although it's going off topic from the Amiga somewhat. But thanks.

>>593502
Adventures, RPG and Strategy games were very popular in Europe on C64 and Amiga. There were some German devs who just made those games like Battle Isle, Realms of Arcadia or Rings of Medusa.

>>593546
But again, those games rely heavily on disk storage, one reason why British C64/Spectrum games were small and simplistic. Tapes don't store much and they're unbelievably slow. It was of course a lot different in continental Europe where disks were the norm.

Even British Amiga games where they had all the disk storage in the world still tended to be arcade stuff probably because they'd developed a habit of it on the 8-bit systems.

>>593546

>>593518 here

Germany is like its own world of gaming and most of their stuff isn't well-known outside the country because of not being in English.

GGS is probably one of the few German-developed games from the 8/16-bit era that most non-Germans have heard of.

>>593546
Japan seems to have the least interesting computer game scene since it's practically nothing but hentai and dating sims

>>593571
Oh well Japan was never a big computer gaming place. The only computer games they have are either barred from consoles due to adult content or need a keyboard.

>>593571
it's because most people there don't have computers at home

their houses are too small to have one and they use internet in their phones since the late 90s

>>593582
I often wonder if Europe's huge computer ownership rate was why we always made the coolest demos and music on C64/Amiga. If you look at NES games for instance, the audiovisuals are very sterile as if Japanese programmers were afraid to experiment. Like NES music is normally just a repeating six-note melody. Probably because they didn't use computers outside work.

>>593582
>it's because most people there don't have computers at home
And computers are expensive as all fuck there

>>593597
A lot of European devs came from the pirate/ demo scene, so some games were a little crazy. I always had the impression that Japanese devs have a different approach to game design.

>>593597
what NES games are you talking about?

go play megaman games, they have awesome music
also Contra and a lot of other games

>>593597
Console hardware isn't freely available to experiment with in your spare time like computers and Japanese culture really doesn't value independence of action so game programmers aren't terribly inclined to do that sort of thing.

That aside, Amerifats certainly had computers to play around with but their C64 games were total rubbish that looked and sounded terrible. We made Creatures and Turrican. You guys made this. For shame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ueseD5D5yE

>>593620
Mega Man is a notable exception. I would say most NES games have nice tunes but they really just use prepackaged envelopes and don't try to push the hardware.

>>593634
This is Robocop 3, one of the relatively few NES games developed in Europe. Note how radically different the music sounds compared to most of what you find on the console (IIRC, the programmers were old C64 hands)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jddMvWi2sI0

>>593627
>cherry-picking games and acting as if all Yuro stuff was god-level

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL35HvTIMmw

This was made by a Brit dev. You guys got some 'splainin to do.

>>593618
>A lot of European devs came from the pirate/ demo scene

We had a nice pirate/demo scene back then. The stories of breaking C64 disk protections are legendary and most of them hail from the US since Britain had only cassette tapes.

>>593641
it's just a different style, it doesn't mean everything else is a "repeating six-note melody"

>>593649
Not him, but of course not all our games were Turrican or Mayhem in Monsterland. We had a huge amount of complete rubbish, especially those shit-tastic ports of Spectrum games to the C64. That conversion of Double Dragon was a disgrace and no, we can't hold American programmers at fault for it.

>>593662
>That conversion of Double Dragon was a disgrace
Incidentally, did that thing ever make it out of the UK or was it something only we were subjected to?

>>593652
But still, the Apple II pirate scene was even more legendary than the C64 one
>>593664
Oh no we sure did get it over here

>>593662
In general, anything made by Ocean was shit. They were like the EA of the 80s. Scooped up licences like candy and made horrible rush-job games.

DD wasn't Ocean though, at least not the shitty version. Ocean did made a better DD for the C64 on a bank-switched cartridge but it's one-player only.

>>593649
Oh well, at least the background graphics and rendition of the arcade theme song are pretty nice.

>>593672
>>593686
>>593682
Why oh why couldn't DD ever get a good home conversion? All of them are shit except the NES and that's not really even DD anyway but a game loosely based on DD.

Well, a lot of those 8 Bit games would never get the Nintendo Seal of Quality.

>>593036
being an American I of course associate C64 more with Maniac Mansion and Ultima than Turrican

>>593702
Nah they were too imaginative and wacky while Nintendo would only approve games that went like this:

>princess/your gf/the president has been kidnapped by bad guys
>run around scrolling level beating up or shooting shit
>defeat boss at the end of the level to collect some magic talisman
>repeat process until you've beaten the game

>>593342
Three of them certainly managed to entertain me as a child (Gunship 2000, Silent Service and M&M3) and were all games I personally chose to add to my collection via piracy at some point. I'm a Brit, though, so was spared some of the vast Nintendo hype.

I have no idea what that bottom right game is, but it looks a fair bit like a take on Chaos from back in the Spectrum days, which also has a place in my heart.

>>593719
And it works to the present day. To be fair, western devs also won`t do a weird game concepts that might confuse the player or go astray from some proven formula like FPS,MMORPG etc.

>>593741
>I have no idea what that bottom right game is, but it looks a fair bit like a take on Chaos from back in the Spectrum days
I suppose they never had Ultima in Europe but it has an almost mythical status in the history of American PC gaming

>>593763
Ultima was well known here. I always believed it was a UK game because of Lord British. Just learnt that Origin System is from Texas.

>>593771
Ok, but I was rather surprised he didn't know it.

I would assume Brits had mostly the Amiga version since they didn't have any disk drives for the C64 Ultimas

>>592047

NES was a few years before my time, but I still enjoy collecting for it and playing the games. Maybe the 3rd option you should add to your list is...

>People who enjoy video games.

>>591994

Amerifats had DOS PCs and Macs, and before that we had C64s and Apple IIs, so we missed out on all of the Amiga/Atari ST/BBC Micro/ZX Spectrum stuff that didn't get ported. I can think of very few games that were available on DOS but not on the Amiga.

>>593753
Except that isn't true.

>>592048
And one more:

People who played the old stuff and now play the games they missed and discovered through the power of the internets.

>>593797
>can think of very few games that were available on DOS but not on the Amiga
Actually by the late 80s, PCs were the primary focus of American devs. Amiga was just a secondary platform and many of its games were not very good.

I can't think of a single Amiga game sold in the US that was not either a PC or an arcade port. Original games essentially didn't exist.

>>593797
>Amerifats had DOS PCs and Macs, and before that we had C64s and Apple IIs
And Atari 800s. Don't forget them. ;)

>>593817
>Amiga was just a secondary platform and many of its games were not very good
Meaning that devs didn't give a shit about Amiga and did sloppy conversions on it.

Exception: Microprose always had good Amiga games

>>593782
It's just one that - for whatever reason - passed me by back in the day. I'm not sure it's indicative of any kind of cultural split. I know plenty of Brits played it but as you say I think most missed out on the C64 versions.

I should really go back and fill that gap some time. Rather shamefully haven't played anything but Underworld and Online.

>>593825
Atari 8-bits are a little bit of an odd case because they were mainly relevant in the US during the first half of the 80s and then post-crash they start selling them in Europe where they lasted through the second half of the decade.