/vr/ - Retro Games

Nothing worth doing is ever easy

>>590854
Artificial difficulty isn't real challenge.

>>590835
> Why does no one ever mention how outdated the controls are in this game?

Blind nostalgia.

Also the lack of doors in the map is pretty bad.

I was going to post something snarky but I really just can't muster the energy.
So I'm just going to say, OP, this game is not for you. One day you might be worthy. But today is not that day.

>>590876
> Let's pretend the game is perfect

>>590835
>there's no reason it couldn't done it the same way as Megaman X
You mean greased magnets for feet?

I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about

>>590892
This actually would be better.

At no point in the game is walljumping necessary to progress. The only reason you would do it is because you want to do it because you saw it done or because you can and you're sequence breaking / speedrunning.

Complaining that the game's controls are easy to learn and hard to master? Really?

Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission are better games.

>>590897
> At no point in the game is walljumping necessary to progress

"I can't fucking walljump in Super Metroid to save my fucking life"

I think the OP is talking about the combat.

>>590897
Except you're required to do it half an hour into the game between those fucking jet turtles in order to proceed.

>>590908

IIRC, you only have to do it in that pit where the creatures teach you. There are other ways out of absolutely every other situation.

>>590908
>not getting the ice beam and freezing them

>>590835

>wall-jumping

You just aren't being patient enough. Wait until Samus stops somersaulting and touches the wall. Then you can do it easy.

This applies to the rest of the game as well. In fact my chief complaint is that it's too easy.

>>590912
This doesn't change the fact the controls of it are bad.

>>590894
Mega Man's world consists of cities and zones where 'everything is magnetic and metallic' makes sense.

Sliding down a dirt slope then kicking off, doing a somersault, and kicking off a jagged rock wall to fling a grappling tether upwards isn't cool, nah, let's just assgrind down this mountain.

Or include a completely seperate preset controller layout so whiners don't have to learn to appreciate any differences in any game ever.

>>590907
You mean the completely assignable controller configuration?

>>590835
It's okay, OP, I can understand how confused you'd be by the main character not shouting JUMP JUMP SLIDE SLIDE whilst squealing like a greased homo at the county fair.

>>590921
> Mega Man's world consists of cities and zones where 'everything is magnetic and metallic' makes sense.
Including rocks and sand? Lol.

> Sliding down a dirt slope then kicking off, doing a somersault, and kicking off a jagged rock wall to fling a grappling tether upwards isn't cool, nah, let's just assgrind down this mountain.
But it would be the same thing, just with intuitive controls.

>>590937
> You mean the completely assignable controller configuration?
No, the fight against the enemies.

>>590937

>squealing like a greased homo at the county fair

>>590941

>flip into the wall
>land on wall
>hit the directional pad in the opposite direction
>press jump again

What the fuck is hard about that? I could do it without trouble when I was like 8. I happen to think the controls of super metroid are glorious. Get on my level, scrub.

Isn't it easier to wall jump in Super since Samus' sprite actually changes to tell you when to jump again?

>>590920
Repeating your shitty opinion doesn't make it a fact.

>>590960
But the controls of Fusion are better than Super.

This is a fact.

Walljumping is a bitch to do and definitely flawed, but it's a hidden technique in Super Metroid. Unlike Fusion it's never actually required.

For instance, those turtles are more easily frozen with the ice beam and climbed as platforms. Walljumping is a good way to sequence break but not the intended route.

There is definite room for improvement since Fusion and Zero Mission control a fuckload better, but it never actually gets in the way. You just have to relearn the physics or just not bother with walljumping.

>>590964
Better because they're more forgiving for dumb, lazy clowns? I guess that's one way to define better.

Fusion was my first 2D Metroid, as well. However, the controls of Fusion/ZM are too dumbed down for me. Having to hold the fucking missile hatch open? Having to press eighteen different buttons to fire a missile downward? Having to press a certain button sequence to aim diagonally downward?

>>590962
It does?

>>590972

See >>590916

>>590968
Couldn't you set the missile controls to hold or set?
I always preferred hold, but I swear the game had the option.

>>590835
>>590875
>>590869
>>590882
>>590894
>>590908
>>590920
>>590939
>>590964

Holy shit, you guys are genuinely retarded.

I hope I never get to the point where I hate literally everything because I'm too lazy to master different controls in different games. I really do. Being a modern gamer has got to be the shittiest thing ever, I really feel for you fucknuts in a way. But there's just no excuse for that level of retardedness.

You play all those shit games with PERFECT controls, the game tells you where to go and what to do, all you need to know is "shoot dah bad gais!", and everything is effectively a shooter, or a shooter with third rate RPG elements tacked on.

Then you try to play older games and rage because you have to master different skillsets, explore on your own and actually try to win.

Fucking faggots, all of you.

>>590835
People like you are worse than Sanic fans...

So, a game has controls that aren't EXACTLY FUCKING PERFECT IN ALL WAYS! SO you hate it and try to rile people up over it?

Go back to gamefaqs, dipshit.

>>590972

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw_AULavpQU

This sperglord explains it in more detail than you could ever possibly need.

First it's tank controls..

Now it's Super Metriod controls..

What's next? People are going to start complaining about Mario's controls?

>>590992
How in the fuck can you justify that having to learn broken and awkward controls is better than having "perfect" controls in a game. There's a difference between good and intuitive controls and hand holding.

>>590992
I partially blame the rise of formalized game design. Now instead of simply whining because a player sucks too much to win they spout off about "artificial difficulty" and other things they don't actually understand.

>>591008
Up next, Atari's Combat. TOO SLOW, WHY CANT I SEE MY TANK IN OPTION 27!?

>>591010
How can you justify your continued posting when it's clear you only want to play games that hold your flipper hands the entire way through and never demand anything from you other than time?

>>590992
This mentality is horrible and really hurting the board.

Nobody mentioned the game being outright shit, let alone comparing it to modern shooters. The OP is comparing it to its direct sequels physics and giving a genuine complaint about how some of the physics and controls in Super aren't as fluent and friendly as they are in Fusion, which is understandable since Fusion did have streamlined controls and physics.

He's also going from a game where walljumping is part of your core moveset and expected to be done to a game where it's a hidden move you never actually use, without actually knowing that it was made more prominent in the Gameboy Advance games. The fact he assumed the turtle shaft was a walljumping puzzle made that pretty clear.

It's certainly not as bad as he's saying it is, but the issues are perfectly understandable and you're a fucking moron for spinning the complaints into "I want every game to hold my hand and play like Call of Duty."

>Why does no one ever mention how outdated the controls are in this game?
Because they aren't, the best i can give you is that the l/r for diagonal shooting can't take a while to get used to

>Metroid Fusion was my first 2D Metroid game and Super Metroid is so stiff it's unplayable in comparison.
You are just used to a different set of controls, it always takes some time to get used to new controls and physics.

>Everyone complains about Fusion's linearity, but I can't fucking walljump in Super Metroid to save my fucking life.
This phrase makes no sense at all, what the fuck the first sentence has to do with the second sentence?

>Why did it have to be so over complicated
Because it's an advanced technique, like shine spark, you have to practice (by doing what the animal pals do) to master it, it's a reward to those who can conquer the controls of the game.

> there's no reason it couldn't done it the same way as Megaman X.
pressXtodoawesomeshit.jpg
You never have to use it while playing the game (with the exception of the monkey room), so there is no need to be easy, again, it's a reward to those who can conquer the controls of the game.

>>591010

He's being a dick, but what he's saying isn't wrong. Games didn't use to hold your hand.

>>590937
but mega man never said that, and it wasn't X either. at least try son.

>>591046

Stop calling people son you fucking autist

>>591050
Stop being a closet case fuckwit who can't handle his old man being better than him at Metroid, boy.

>>591062

Hey prick, I'm this guy:

>>590997
>>590916
>>591032

And I'm 27. So shut the fuck up. I just finished Super Metroid again on an actual SNES a couple weeks ago. Doesn't make you any less of an annoying dickface.

Son.

>>591068
HEY SHITFUCK!

I am no one in this thread, you are making a wonderful ass of yourself with your petulant bitching. I am just here for the popcorn, boy.

>oooooh 27... big man!

>>591078

Fuck you. I'm sick of the condescending son thing.

>>591013
welcome to the "70s and 80s" kids, anon.

>>591068
>>591078
Ladies, please, not in the salon

>>591081
That's not me, and the poor bastard only used 'son' once. You are rustled one, boy.

'I hate condescension on 4chan qqqqq'

Really?...REALLY?

>>591089

>condescension on 4chan

Just the son thing. Got a hate hard-on for it.

But the controls do work perfectly, you just have to master them. SM only requires a modicum of effort anyway compared to other walljumping mechanics and you can always choose whether to wall jump or not instead of automatically walljumping every time you press a button near a wall.

>>590835

It's not that hard to wall jump dude. You're obviously mashing it too early and not letting Samus touch the wall.

>>591106

This has been explained at least a metric fuckton of times, but all we get in return is 'artificial difficulty' and 'bad controls'.

You know, code for sucking at games and unwilling to practice.

Because they're not outdated. They're the same as 90% of 2D platformers, both modern and old school ones. It's like you don't even play videogames. Though I guess that's explains why you would think the walljumping is hard.

I actually like the controls and wall jumping isnt that hard. But sometimes my hands go full retard and I just cant pull it off. Years of consistent wall jumping skills then suddenly takes me 30 minutes to go up that fucking wall.

>>591114

You know off the topic of wall jumping i actually liked the "tutorials" in Super Metroid. Anytime you could learn a new move in Super Metroid there was always those animals showing you how it was done in a subtle way. A modern game would end up showing you a 2 minute rendered video tutorial these days or have the character narrate to himself "HEY LOOKS LIKE I CAN GRAB A FOOTHOLD ON THIS GLOWING ROCK HERE etc."

Also anytime you get a new weapon you're immediately required to use it to get out of the room you're in. It's actually some very clever level designing to ensure the player actually ends up using every tool available.

>>590835
Mega Man X: Released by Capcom July, 1994
Super Metroid: Released by Nintendo Apr 1994

It looks like Nintendo couldn't rip off Mega Man X, because they were being made at the same time.

Also, I thought the same thing, but I was seven at the time. I mastered it anyway, and I got a lot better at Mega Man X because of it.

I'm not sure how old you are now, but you're telling me that you can't do better than a seven year old?

>>591125

Mostly the result of hardware limitations, but we have forgotten those kinds of subtle design choices.

>>591130

Nah usually in those days you'd get a window prompt with text explaining the new move or something. However Super Metroid did this cleverly without any words at all.

>Why did it have to be so over complicated
>complicated
You change the direction you're facing when near a wall and then press jump when the sprite changes.
How retarded do you have to be to call that complicated?

I have no problem with the controls, they are very good to me. And wall jumping isn't hard at all, it took me maybe 40 seconds to master when I was a kid.

Instead of complaining for the sake of complaining, you should play another game.

>Complaining about Super Metroid's controls

>>591158

so you hold run down with the tip of your thumb and then push the joint down to jump?

interesting. seems imprecise, especially with the slight diamond layout the snes buttons have going

I never found the controls to be particularly odd, although I did emulate it.

Honestly my biggest problem with this game is the amount of "shoot this random block" you have to do.

>>591950

Well, it's about exploration. One of the game's primary objectives is to make you feel lost. It's part of why a lot of people like it, in fact.

Super Metroid's controls are flawless.

Walljumping is easy.

Geez, just because you haven't mastered a game's controls as soon as you start playing doesn't mean the controls are bad. They are responsible, complex, and functional.

>>591905
>seems imprecise, especially with the slight diamond layout the snes buttons have going
It worked fine for running in games like Super Mario World. I never had a problem with that type of configuration.

>>591905

It worked in Mario. Seems natural to me, but I've played a lot of SNES and Playstation games with that kinda configuration.

>>591905

Have you ever played a sidescroller with run and jump buttons before in your life? It's not interesting or imprecise, it's the only viable fucking way.

Playing through this game now. The map doesn't mark certain things and I wonder how I'm so lucky as to stumble across the right objective each and every time.

Imagine if I never boost ran down that corridor. How would I have learned to charge my jumps from that alien creature?

Eventually I'm going to get lost, and when that happens I'm going to get lost HARD. I keep worrying but it never comes.

Am I lucky or is the game reading my mind?

i think op is expecting to touch a wall, smash jump, and have metroid flip up the walls like ninja gaiden

>>592043
>Am I lucky or is the game reading my mind?
I don't have the links, but there have been several articles written about the subtle genius of the game's design. It's laid out in a more linear fashion than it appears to be. For much of the journey, the game wants you to feel just a LITTLE bit lost, then it coaxes you towards the correct solution to a problem in a way that makes you feel like you figured it out all by yourself. Those little bits of satisfying discovery are what makes you want to continue playing.

>>592059
>and have metroid flip up the walls
2/10

The one thing from Fusion I would love to have in Super is the ability to switch to missiles with the R trigger, then going back to the normal arm cannon when releasing the button.

When I was 5 it was hard to do. When I was 14 it was no problem.

It's not that difficult. You can't blame the game for the fact that you can't do a simple thing.

>>590835
they were fine, you're a baby

pic unrelated

>>592224
hnng dem toes

>>592224
>No Minish Cap
I'm sad.

>>590835
>I can't fucking walljump in Super Metroid to save my fucking life.
Nigga just how casual can you even be? One of the biggest complaints in the video game community regarding Super Metroid is that it is /too fucking easy/. Wall jumping is definitely not a difficult task son.

>so over complicated
Jump while pressing away from the wall is too complicated? Or is it the timing? If simple timing like /wall jumping in Super Metroid/ is too tough, maybe gaming just isn't for you. Take up another hobby, read a book or ride a bike or something man

>there's no reason it couldn't done it the same way as Megaman X
No, they couldn't. Wall jumping serves different roles in each game. MMX pretty much only uses it for direct upward ascension, which is why MASH X TO CLIMB! works well for it. Super Metroid grants you a lot more control over your wall jump and thus you have more options with what you do with it. Consequently, it requires a little more thought to scale a wall. Not nearly enough to warrant complainin though

>Metroid Fusion was my first 2D Metroid game
AHA AHA AHA HA HA Me too. That's not an excuse. Going from MF's walljump to SM's felt like a blessing, because MF gives you hardly any control over your wall jump. It serves no other purpose than scaling adjacent gapped walls. In fact, I think you literally cannot give input for the first few frames after rebounding from the wall, to specifically prevent you from doing any of the interesting shit you could pull off with SM's wall jump.

I honestly cannot recall a single moment in Super Metroid where the controls got in the way of the game, the only thing I struggled with figuring out were the secret techniques like the shine spark or the wall jump, and neither one is actually required to finish the game.

There is no battle or boss fight I can recall where I said something along the lines of "Jeez, controlling Samus is hard in this fight, I wish I could maneuver her better"

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that going back and playing the game as an adult that it's actually a bit too easy to control. Your rate of falling is slow, as well as the fact that you can control yourself midair meaning that you always are in total control of your descent. You can aim in whatever direction you want, control the speed at which you run, I cannot think of a single thing actually wrong with the controls themselves, and in general, the game moves at a very manageable, unfrustrating speed.

>>590835

it has to do with the physics engine they used in the game

the physics are weird, but if you get used to it, you'll be mock balling and wall jumping and ibj'ing in no time

Just wait until the OP discovers he can use one wall to wall jump.

Also, master set up for me was X for item select and dash on A. I've gotten so used to clawing with my thumb at an odd angle to run jump and shoot at the same time. Almost to the point that I think the run button is held 99% of the game.

Also, OP, if wall jumping bugs you THAT much... Just bomb jump.

>>592059
>>592163

What if Metroid was a ninja?

>>592402
Then it would be the most unstoppable robot in the galaxy.

>>590835
But OP, You can change the controls. I always fiddle with the controls in nearly every game I play.
I have an OCD problem with Jumping and Shooting. If Jumping is the bottom button of a controller and shooting is the next button to the left--It feels awkward as fuck.
On top of that, any run control has to be set to a shoulder button so it doesn't interfere with my jumping and shooting.

Or are you just complaining about wall jumping? Just go fall in that hole and let the green midget bears teach you. If you dont learn it in an hour, you might as well put your arm cannon in your mouth.

>>592224
>>592309
Same here, I never had a problem with them, and I was a kid playing that game, even walljumping. Didn't have any trouble with Fusion's either.

wtf is samus i said metroid is a robot

>>592034
not than anon but I think he is hinting towards dash being on B and jump being on Y.

That way, you can hold dash with the joint and jump with the tip, which is a more natural movement pattern for your fingers.

I understand that it works for you and is a standard in other games, but it seems less than ideal

I played Super Metroid for the first time last year. Wall jumping does feel a bit wonky at first, but it's all in the timing. Once I learned how to do it, I didn't have much trouble doing it every time.

>>593020
This place ate up hours of my time when I was a youngster

>>590835
Go kill yourself faggot

>>593020
It never got me.

If kids could do it, then so can you. Unless you're really fucking incompetent.

Completed Super Metroid last night and started Fusion. Controls are great in SM but I understand the wall jumping can be frustrating. SM is great though.

ZM is great too.

The only thing wrong with the controls is the three button setup. Everything else is perfectly fine.

>tfw just found my only slightly-creased Super Metroid instruction manual lost these past 16 years

So useful and colorful.

the wall jump controls are outdated because you can't handle them

mean while advanced players can use the wall jump so well they take short cuts the developers didn't even know existed.

>>590835
I played Fusion before I played Super, OP.

I have no earthly idea what you're talking about.

Personal preferences, I guess.

Super Metroid is the only one with momentum. That is why I love the controls.

>>590948
Right? Wall jumping only gave me trouble when I was playing with a broken controller.

OP? Is your controller broken?

I love the controls in Super Metroid. Everything is pretty slow and easy to control, and there are lots of cool tricks you can do like, walljumping, shinesparking, the infinite bomb jump, and the machball.

>>590962
>>590972
Yes.

>>591010
What is broken or awkward? Just because you can't handle it for whatever reason means it's broken?

I didn't even play Super Metroid until 2003 and I had no problem with the controls at all.

>>591125
Clever design is gone.

I need everyone to analyze the opening stage of Super Mario Bros and Mega Man X for a minimum of 40 hours each before being allowed to make a video game.

>>591950
How much of that do you HAVE to do, when there isn't an indication what to do?

>>592043
Why would you have to learn to charge your jumps?

Also, what you are describing is intuitive design. And some luck.

>>590992
Holy fuck this is my new favorite pasta, thanks

>>591013
>a game where walljumping is part of your core moveset and expected to be done to a game where it's a hidden move you never actually use
You didn't need to use it in Fusion except for getting one missle upgrade

>>590835
I never liked the default control scheme. It's kind of awkward, so I just... you know... change it because they let you do that.

>I can't fucking walljump in Super Metroid to save my fucking life

It's not that fucking hard, bro. Stop being terrible.

I can understand going from ZM or Fusion to Super can be a bit jarring when it comes to handling Samus. This is because you go from a pair of games with no physics to a game with a lot. Acceleration, momentum, arcing your jumps, slingshotting yourself, it's all there. Also, the wall jump is equally fluid.
In ZM/Fusion, everything is binary and at a set rate with none of the aforementioned. The only acceleration comes from when the Speed Booster kicks in, except it doesn't actually accelerate you much, you just switch to a faster speed. Also, Fusion's wall jump was nerfed specifically so you can't single wall jump. to avoid sequence breaks.

>>590992
top lel

>>590992
Thank you.