/vr/ - Retro Games

For me, it's Doom 64, the superior game to the PC Dooms and Quake.

>>5864275
Why are there so many of you retards on /vr/

>>5864137
Quake in my opinion. Once you learn how to move in Quake no game can compare.

>>5864289
/vr/ is full of actual children

>>5864137
I liked Doom 1 and hated 2, but couldn't get very far in Quake. If the guns and the enemies in your first person shooter suck dick, then your first person shooter does as well.

>>5864137
For me it's Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold, the most aesethetic shooter of the doom era

>>5864137
>Pie Vs. Cake
I play both frequently, and I enjoy both for different reasons.

>>5864441
The guns in Quake are fine.

>>5864137
>Which one is better?
doom for single player
quake for multi player

>>5864137
>Quake doesn't have better enemies or guns, but the level design was miles better IMO. It made the whole game very satisfying as a whole with very cool locations, even if it looks like shitstained.
That is definitely true. Doom 1 feels quaint today, and over half of Doom 2 is just a slog. Quake is excellent almost all the way through. And of course the 3D functionality adds a literal new dimension to the level design and gameplay.
Personally, I enjoy Doom 2 more as the basis for many maps/mods than as an actual game. Quake is much more consistent and fun.

Quake has much better level design and has great ambience. PSX Doom is second though.

Ultimate Doom > Quake > Doom 2 > Quake 2

>>5865391
ultimate is a fad
and quake 2 is best

>>5864449
>most aesethetic shooter of the doom era
From an art direction, I actually agree. I absolutely adore the variety colors that game worked with.

>>5864137
Quake was the first ever really 3D shooter and introduced the world to actual mouse + keyboard fps controls. It wouldn't exist without doom or wolf3D, but it blew the older 2D fps' to shreds.

Is there any reason to play Wolf 3D instead of skipping it to play Doom, Doom 2, et al? Is it worth it even just for the sake of playing a punishing FPS?

>>5865449
Wolf3D is kinda poor for the most part because of poor/boring level design. Spear of Destiny on the other hand is genuinely great.

>>5865449
why not play it, it's a good game and you're into retro fps?

>>5864289
>I'm strictly talking about the Doom classic trilogy (Doom 1/2/Final Doom)

>>5865415
Basically this.

>>5865449
the setting is funny, but I think gameplay-wise it isn't a good game

>>5865415
since we're including final doom in with doom and doom 2..fuck no.

final doom>quake 1

>>5864137
They play very different, so it's possible to like both...I hope?

>>5864137
Doom 1 honestly.
as much as I like Quake certain enemies just suck too much of the fun out of it. Shamblers are just as unfun as Archviles (one of many reasons I hate Doom 2 compared to the first)

>>5865415
Terminator : Future Shock did all of those things in 1995, it just wasn't even close to as good.

>>5865415
>Quake was the first ever really 3D shooter and introduced the world to actual mouse + keyboard fps controls

No

>>5865449
Wolf3D isn't bad, but it's really nothing great either, the gameplay is very simple and plain, with little variety, and the levels are much the same for the most part, only they're sometimes varying degrees of convoluted mazes because otherwise there would be no variety.
I think you could get most of your worth out of just the first episode, because the gameplay doesn't substantially change after this point, episode 2 and 3 introduces some new enemies but they don't strictly do anything new. You get to kill Adolf Hitler in episode 3, so there's that.

After the original three episodes, I really don't think Wolf3D has a lot of mileage left, The Nocturnal Missions are really drawn out and boring, I didn't find them enjoyable at all, Spear Of Destiny does a few new things, and is only 20ish maps or so, with some reasonable consistency to them.
The FormGen sequels to Spear Of Destiny are absolutely balls, don't play them.

Overall, Wolf3D isn't bad, but Doom and Rise Of The Triad raised the bar so much that you can't help but look back on it and think "Man, there just isn't a lot to it, is there?"
I'd recommend to only play a map or two a day, because if you try to marathon through the game you'll probably wear yourself out.

>>5865415
Wolfenstein 3D did mouse and keyboard before Quake.

Doom is my favorite because it has the best balance of weapon power/speed, enemies, and level design. Wasn't much of a fan of the Doom 2 additions nor did I enjoy the expansion maps, and something about Quake on UV just feels like a slog as opposed to fast and engaging. Lots of enemies feel like bullet sponges

>>5867540
Stop being a cumbrain and use the grenade launcher.

Never really liked quake, not even as a kid. Doom wins by default

>>5864137
Quake might as well be Doom 3 if I can be honest.

Quake doesn't feel "comfy" like Doom. The atmosphere and those jerkily moving low poly enemies are somehow uncomfortable

>>5867540
No Quake enemy is even close as much as a bullet sponge as Doom's Barons of Hell.
But if you want to see a game with really awful bullet sponges then play Unreal. Even the most basic enemy the Skaarj Scout takes an eternity to kill.

>>5864137
Doom, but I like Quake better. Something about being able to look up and down.

>>5867884
I dunno, man. Playing Quake at low resolution plus software rendering is pretty damn comfy.

>>5867540
You probably get the impression of enemies being bulletsponges because the shotguns aren't the powerhouses they are in Doom, and there's a bit of damage resistance at play with two enemies.

The Single Shotgun should only be used for low mooks or for picking off enemies at a longer distance (due to its long range), and the Super Shotgun is for kiting Fiends (and kind of anything else that you can reliably avoid getting shot by in some circumstances, even the Shambler).
The game gives you the Grenade Launcher for dealing with Zombies and for some additional short range firepower, and then you get the Rocket Launcher which lets you destroy enemies at long range, and you should be given plenty of ammunition to put these to use.
The Nailguns don't get a lot of ammo, but you should generally save them for tougher monsters and larger groups if you can, ditto for the Thunderbolt, because the Shambler takes half damage from explosives, and the Vore is just a fucking cunt that you need to end quickly.

The game hands out plenty of Quad Damage powerups even on hard, and if you use them smartly you can get out of lots of hairy situations, even the Super shotgun is a monster when each pellet does four times the damage, to not even mention the Super Nailgun or the Thunderbolt, letting you sweep down angry interdimensional beasts like the fist of an angry drunken god.

>>5864137
If youre gonna include final doom and shit like that why cant you include scourge of armagon & dissolution of eternity, which are both much better level design / weapon design / enemy design compared to vanilla q1.

>>5864137
>average quake level: like 36 monsters
>average doom2 level: like 200 monsters
yeah that's gonna be a yikes from me dawg

>>5864449
>>5865409
Did you guys like planet strike? I think it generally has better levels than aliens of gold. It wwaas more of a spear of destiny.

>>5865415
CyClones

>>5868290
Stop playing Quake on Easy.
For that matter graduate up from Doom 2 to Plutonia.

>>5865449
Wolf3d itself no
Wolf 3d mods like Orb of Dilaaria, yes
>>5867884
Quake is inherently, intentionally uncomfortable in level design and enemy design. Thematically it is unsettling - this is intended. There are far more "Gotcha!" moments in quake and doom than most other fps games. Traps and pop-out-from-the-darkness type of combat situations.
>>5867895
That part early on (level 3? Maybe 4?) Where the lights sequentially go out at the dead end of this hallway in the mine and you fight your first skarrj was fucking cool though.

>>5868298
I'm talking highest difficulty under nightmare
Plutonia I have beaten on uv with pistol start. Bad game Too many chaingunners.

>>5868315

>>5867540
>Lots of enemies feel like bullet sponges

Because you tried to play it like Doom. Shotguns are sidearms in Quack, the other weapons are your main damage dealers. Besides that unlike Doom you can switch weapons instantly, there's no RNG damage ranges, and your workhorse weapon isn't a shotgun that reloads after every shot. So the speed at which you can kill shit is way more consistent and arguably faster once you get gud.

>>5868308
Level 3? What the fuck are you talking about. It's literally the beginning of the game. Level 3? Did you think unreal was Mario?

doom in quake and quake in doom mods?

only tryhard niggers like quake.

>>5869234
I've seen some Quake done in Heretic, and it's uh, pretty ok looking actually, pretty good sprites, haven't played it yet. I've seen some Doom stuff done in Quake, and it looks remarkably awful.

Not sure they would really mix that well, the gameplay is pretty different.

>>5869242
Glad to hear you like Quake.

>>5869234
dimension of the boomed

>>5864137
the first doom on sega 32x or psone is the ultimate

>>5869402
>Doom on 32X
>ultimate

>>5869467
the graphics aren't the important part playing doom. the game has excellent control on 32x. you can move faster and strafe better in that and the psone version than any others. doom is only 32 bit. 32x version had better sound effects for demons than any version

>>5869481
we master race have what is known as a keyboard
and mods.

>>5869512
keyboards are nothing in comparison to the majesty of a six button sega controller with doom or a playstation controller with shoulder buttons for strafing.

>>5869481
32X Doom isn't bad for its graphics, in fact it has a pretty decent resolution and no compression on the graphics or audio compression (unlike the SNES version), it also mostly runs well with a good framerate, and with a sixbutton controller the controls are pretty decent.
Problem with the port is A), they just took the .mus files and dumped them onto the Genesis without putting any effort into adjusting them for how the machine sounds, so the music mostly sounds garbage, and B), since a 32X cartridge only holds 4MB, the port is missing a bunch of levels or have them cut down, and doesn't feature the bosses like the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind, on top of lacking sprite rotations for, well, everything, meaning monsters always face you even when they actually aren't.

Given that the Sega 32X was an expensive peripheral on launch, I don't think this is a great tradeoff. If you found one cheap at a garage sale, with a copy of Doom and the necessary cables, I think it would be a decent way to play, it's practically the Shareware episode and then parts of the other two, but if you have a PC it's hard to justify.

>>5869402
The PSX version is a different story altogether.
Since they're using a CD, they have space for hundreds of megabytes, as a result this version doesn't just contain the full version of the original three episodes (with a couple of trims and adjustments here and there for performance), it has the fourth episode from Ultimate, and pretty much all of Doom 2, barring the secret Wolfenstein 3D levels (which aren't very good anyway), and it also features a dozen all new exclusive levels which you couldn't play anywhere else.
There's a couple of nerfs on enemies, the Arch-Vile is completely missing, because they didn't think they could do him justice on the machine (resurrecting enemies would be a no-no in the 90s console ports, pic related, and arguably they might have thought he was too fast for some players), and the Revanant is much slower. This is perhaps the biggest strike against the port, because these are the most fun enemies.

There's an all new set of sound effects, which some people like a lot, I think they're ok, there's all new music, which again some people like a lot, but I think it's boring as shit because it all sounds the same and has no variation. They add reverb effects to certain locations, giving you nice echoes for certain firefights, there's also the addition of colored sector lighting, which is added here and there in every level, and is occasionally a nice addition. They further add an animated burning sky on some maps, which looks pretty gnarly.
Textures are a bit less varied and colorful.
The controls are good, and if you play the Doom 1 episodes on hardest, it will sneak in a Doom 2 enemy here and there in some secret areas, for what that matters.

Overall, the Playstation version of Doom I think was actually a pretty good package deal, especially if you consider that the Playstation was pretty cheap to buy. It's overall a wholly superior port to the 32X one.

>>5869529
You can use those to play Doom on PC.
Sourceports have a lot of flexibility, and there's a lot of really good level sets out there.

>>5870448
The PC version of Doom only has support for 4 button controllers.
>Button 1 = Shoot
>Button 2 = Open Doors
>Button 3 = Strafe
>Button 4 = Run
Since you can't switch weapons with a gamepad, you will still need to use the keyboard constantly.

The console ports allow you to use more buttons.

>>5870483
Get GzDoom and load it with Vanilla Essence
https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=59412

Vanilla Essence would set up GzDoom as close to original Doom behavior as possible, and then you can set up basically whatever gamepad or peripheral that you want with it, be it an oldschool gamepad with a USB adapter, or an off the shelf Dualshock or XBone controller (I like playing with a mouse in my right hand, and a gamepad in my left hand).
When you can set up your own binds, a Playstation style controller with two sticks actually is a really comfortable way to play the original game (something a lot of FPS enthusiasts would never recognize), it's a bit like playing keyboard only but a lot better.

Then you can just start it and play it like you would normal Doom.
There's also mods to give you Playstation Doom sounds, and even a total conversion that closely emulates the Playstation version, down to altered enemy behavior and changed maps (as well as a stripped down version that's only the maps and music converted, for playing with mods).
Further, there's a Doom 64 conversion, it's a bit different from Playstation Doom but it has some similarities and has some of its own things going for it. Same sound designer and composer, and you wouldn't have to play it with the Nintendo 64 controller, if you're the kind of person who doesn't like it.
That's not even talking about all the mapsets that exist out there.

>>5864289

>>5868470
the rrajigar mine is the third level you visit
aka level 3
it's not hard

>>5864137
OG Doom for me, missing the SSG from 2 but I think the level design is superior.

But as a multiplayer game, Quake wins easily.

>>5864137
i liked quake more.

>>5872189
I don't feel the same, but at the same time I see your reasoning.

>>5864137
Quake enemies look retarded af

>>5864137
I never found killing things in Quake to be that satisfying. Doom has all these cool death animations but your only reward for getting a kill in Quake is to see the monster fall over awkwardly.

>>5872467
I really like them, the Shambler looks great, he's just this weird furred big muscle humanoid with a big maw where his head should be, with this funky ambling walking style, and an awkward running style that looks hilarious.
I also really like the bestiary in general, particularly from a gameplay standpoint.

>>5872982
There's something to be said for that, death animations in Doom could be *incredibly* detailed and visceral, the Baron Of Hell and Mancubus have really graphic and cool ones in particular.
Quake does do that 3D gibs thing, but it's not done all that amazingly, the chunks just kinda scatter limply in place and looks awkward.

>>5864137
Quake

>>5865392
>and quake 2 is best
Howard Johnson is right

Quake is the better game, but Doom has a bigger modding community.

>>5877686
Depends on what you like. Doom is better suited towards larger groups of monsters, which is better for certain kinds of gameplay.
There's also a rather different aesthetic and atmosphere, with different music and different combat.

I really, REALLY like both a lot though.