/vr/ - Retro Games

i gave an upscaler a plate of blintzes to paint my fence, but it never did it.

>>5839012
Because 1 extra frame of input lag is unironically way too much for people who are sensitive to lag like me.

>>5839012
I don't hate them. I just prefer using a CRT since I never threw mine out in the first place. They're a perfectly reasonable alternative. Hell, I might eventually pick up an OSSC one of these days, even though I don't really need one anyway.

>>5839019
Those blintzes were terrible
T. OSSC

I like them. Especially the OSSC since it has some neat extra features like deblur SNES and N64.

>>5839012
Because I just want to play fucking video games, I don't care about any of this shit

>>5839012
Because S-Video on a large high quality consumer set with shadow mask is the final redpill.

>>5839118
shadow mask is fine but I prefer aperture grille, especially for 2D pixel games. I think shadow masks are more competitive when it comes to 3D content and 480i, where it can help soften jaggies/flicker

s-video is fine too, although I'm already down the rabbit hole on that. The funny thing is I would've just been content with s-video for everything, but the problem was always that the Genesis was one of my favorite consoles, and it had absolutely dogshit composite, and the only available step up from there was RGB. So I said "fuck it" and decided to go with RGB for my Gensis. And once you bother going through the hassle of getting RGB from one of your consoles, might as well get the rest of them too.

>>5839012
/vr/ can't pay for it!
so they go with cheap crap like the OSCC or the retrothink

>>5839012
As long as 15khz CRTs exist scalers are a waste of money. OSSC's better than the FM though.

Because my reciever already does that, wasn't much more expensive, and I get to not have 4 switchers cluttering everything. And that "side benefit" of enjoying the sound.

>>5839154
>And once you bother going through the hassle of getting RGB from one of your consoles, might as well get the rest of them too.
For me it wasn't just a case of might as well. Once I saw my first console in RGB it was a case of need. S-video's nice, but the impact isn't the same. Now all of my S-video cables are shoved in some box--in retrospect they were a waste of money, but I was ignorant.

>>5839180
well, calling it a "need" is a bit melodramatic, but yeah we were in the same boat. I also felt like I wasted my time with s-video for the other stuff.
At least I decided to bite the bullet and go RGB before modding my genesis for s-video. I was very close to doing that bullshit too.

>>5839012
Because it's overpriced, I have one and I love it but god damn. When I bought mine, the OSSC was still hard to get and not really feature complete, as it stands today it's easily the better option .

>>5839118
Once you get component or RGB, it's hard to go back to S video. Even for consoles which are expensive to get RGB or Component working.

>>5839189
>"need" is melodramatic
A powerful indisputable compulsion then.

>>5839218
Is that a Karl Pilkington game?

>>5839012
/vr/ doesn't hate them. But plenty of people hate underage faggots who shitpost about them.

>>5839019
>>5839058
Well done. Have a gold sir.

>>5839028
isn't it output lag?

>>5839028
You’re retarded.

>>5840716
Anon, there are fighting games with 1 frame links that people can execute with a high level of precision. On top end people can deal with as little as one frame as fantastical as it sounds up front.
Granted, 1 frame dosn't really matter to 99% of people.

>>5839012
OSSC is not an upscaler.

>>5840715
No, it's the lag between inputs on the controller, which is how these things are gauged.

>>5840920
Thats not a OSSC anon, its a Framemeister

>>5839012
They can't afford one (not to mention OLED panels), so they stick to their 10$ worth cockroach boxes.

>>5840969
cope

>>5840969
>OLED
what a meme. Let me know when they fix the burn-in issue. Until then it's just planned obsolescence: the screen.

>>5839028
If you can notice 1 frame of input lag then you’re massively autistic.

>>5840989
Lightgun can.

>>5840989
>If you can notice 1 frame of input lag then you’re
not a casual tard
FTFYK

>>5840989
Then why do modern TVs have a game mode?

because they make emulators obsolete when used with an actual console + flash cart.

>>5842851
Not really. Find an OSSC with an rf channel tuner, and then you might be on the right track.

>>5842851
More like emulators make the original console + game + memebox combo obsolete, providing perfect picture quality for free on the same screen.

>>5843789
and a healthy dose of input lag and compatibility issues

>>5842851
this.
Picture taken from an OSSC in optimized mode.

I got the OSSC. I like it enough. Im not really savvy enough to go into the ins and outs or even notice them really. But near as I can tell. It works like it's supposed to.

>>5843829
Stfu retard

>>5842851
Can they rewind?
Can they upscale 3d graphics?
Can they fix slowdown?

>>5843987
I'd check out the optimized modes at least. It makes games look sharper. For a good while, I hadn't touched them but I was impressed by the results when I got around to using it.

>>5843973
SOTN is a good game to test on ps1, ps2, then ps3. It shows how vastly different the consoles handled the same game.

>>5843829
Most people just feel bad when someone says what you said. We feel bad for you. You are not proving emulators have lag/compat issues, you are proving your incapability to get them to work. Which is fucking astounding since they are made for mongos.

>>5842087
That has to do with frame timings more than anything. Like judder and other symptoms of movies being 23.976 standard rate. Manufacturers expect people to use TV for tv/movies more than vidya, so there are tons of shit to make tv/movies look presentable. Game mode removes that stuff, which in turn happens to lower latency by a small bit. PC Mode is the same, but instead defaults settings to a middle ground so you could use your pc to change settings (for shit like contrast or hue)

>>5840985
going on 4 years of 4:3 use on my first OLED. No burn in after hundreds of hours. 4 years is all anyone should keep a display anyway.

Poor people need not cope.

>>5844103
The issues emulators have with input lag/compatibility are well known. If anything people are much too forgiving of emulation, which is the reason we have shit like n64 emulation in such a fucking abysmal state.

>>5844114
>4 years is all anyone should keep a display anyway.
good goy

>>5839891
kys reddit faggot.
Why is vr overrun with you assholes?

>>5844378
Fashwave is the dumbest goddamn thing. Without the critique of late capitalism or wearing its trappings for decoration, you're just applying a CRT filter and bad captions.

>>5844115
>playing soi consoles

>>5844547
Show me where the bad nazi touched you anon.

>>5843987
>I got the OSSC. I like it enough. Im not really savvy enough to go into the ins and outs or even notice them really.
lol

>>5844096
even on the ps1 it's not perfectly 256x240, it has fewer vertical pixels than that. Fortunately there seems to be a patch for that, I'll try it later this week.

>>5839012
love mine, fuck /vr/ and fuck niggers

>>5839012
The Framemeister upscaler has noisy solid colors and adds input latency due to its framebuffer.

Most prefer line multipliers like the OSSC which does not have either of those issues. The RetroTINK 2X is another line multiplier with composite and S-Video inputs but at a lower quality but the combination of OSSC and RetroTINK 2X makees an upscaler like the Framemeister obsolete. The OSSC is an essential part of my capture/stream setup and the Framemeiter has no longer seen any use since.

>>5848610
>but the combination of OSSC and RetroTINK 2X makees an upscaler like the Framemeister obsolete

>routes 480i-signal through it

Hehe, nothing personal.

>>5848610
Bob deinterlacing is eye-bleed inducing trash. Plus there are no zoom-zoom features, meaning that you're fucked when you want to fit the image to the screen if your display doesn't have some sort of magnification function (which most of the monitors doesn't have), or if you want to control scaling more precisely. General compatibility issues on top of it. I suppose it produces cleaner results with progressive sources, and supposedly more color accurate, but you must be really desperate if you gonna process interlaced content with this thing.

Also availability is total ass.

>>5850896
just do laced de-interlacing instead? the only system you have to put with thats interlaced is gay ass ps2 any way. frameisters are shit. get over it.

>>5850896
PS2 looks like shit a lot of the time no matter what you display it on. I only keep a CRT around for my PS2 and it still looks kinda bad.

Use a CTR or emulate. Playing retrogames on a modern LCD TV is retarded.

>>5851210
Dude, I love crash team racing

>>5840989
Or you enjoy playing fighting games.

I bought a framemeister because of the following:
>I play SD only game consoles regularly
>I stream/make youtube videos and exclusively use official hardware, therefore I need the best picture quality

If you're -just- going to play Retro games, and not record/stream, then don't bother with an upscaler. Just get an old CRT and be fine.

I don't get the idea that you want to play your old consoles on modern TV's. THey just look better on a CRT.

>>5853390
Is it so hard to understand that most of the people don't wanna clutter their living rooms with gigantic radiation machines just so they can fry their eyes with it once or twice a week? Not to mention that very soon new scaling solutions combined with LEDs will be dabbing on your grilles and shadowmasks pretty hard.

Because they're poor and can't afford them

>>5840953
His point was that the OSSC is a line doubler, not a scaler

>>5854237
line doubling is literally a form of scaling. 2x scale for doubling, 3x scale for line tripling, etc.

would hdmi modded consoles be a better alternative to upscalers?

>>5853390
>I bought a fraMEMEister because of the following:
</reddit>
I'm an ignorant underage redditot
</reddit>
that is all

>>5839028
lol. You don't notice it you mongo. Try harder you retard.

>>5854767
>everyone is a retarded as me

>>5854767
That's an embarrassing post.

>>5839058
UPSCALE MY NES!

I like the way Snrub thinks!

What scaler(s) handle resolution switching the fastest?

>>5857887
The shitty 30 dollar ones on amazon. They don't drop signal between 240p and 480i because they incorrectly 240p as 480i anyway
Other than that it really just comes down to how quickly your TV syncs when getting a new signal

>>5857490
God its ugly. It looks like its built out of legos or something.

>>5850896
bob deinterlacing is good for 3d games. Any static 2d elements are bad.

>>5856692
MAKE ME!

>>5858606
It is, chink legos.

>>5854427
those words don't mean what you think they mean

line doubling isn't quite the same as scaling. you can be as pedantic as you like, but the reality is it is easier to colloquially distinguish between line doublers and scalers.

>>5857887
you want an OSSC

>>5855217
I am glad you are finally coming to your senses. We are rooting for your retardation to get off this board now.

>>5855257
I agree. Pretending to notice 1 frame of delay is fucking cringe.

Considering how often several frames are delayed in varying amounts on real hardware no less.

>>5859287
Some people aren't pretending though... they are really as fucking cringe as you believe they are and so much more

>>5859287
It does matter for actual competitive things like fighting games and melee, but otherwise yeah I agree with you. People are mostly just lying to themselves and looking for post-hoc justifications for going one route over another. Doesn't have to be that way though. I'm 100% CRT all the way, but I'm not going to act like the reason I play on CRTs is 16ms of input lag via OSSC. I just like the aesthetic, both of the technology as well as the picture. For me old games and old TVs go together, and if I were to play on an LCD, I might as well just emulate. Which is also perfectly valid of course, and I also find it funny the people who feel the need to justify their use of real hardware by complaining about emulator input lag or lack of accuracy.

>>5857887
extron

>>5840989
No. Autism results in poor reflexes. It's the opposite of autistic.

>>5859287
>>5859349

Couldn't agree more. Retards will be in all aspects of hobbies. I wonder what these dumb cucks think of the information that plenty of 'retro' systems have 2-4 frames of lag on their own?

Time lag: The pupils of children with autism take longer to constrict in response to a flash of light compared with controls. https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/study-links-pupillary-reflex-heart-rate-in-autism/

>>5859557
I remember 15 years ago when emulators had those issues. The fact is, some people live in the past and forget shit gets better.

>>5860831
All, not plenty. This is basic information. If you're so autistic you can't feel double digit millisecond lag then don't ever try joining a band (not that you have any creative talent whatsoever anyways)

>>5859557
You have a lot more than 16ms lag total. 16 for the OSSC alone. 8 for the CRT to react. At least 30 depending on console and game. These are measurable facts.

>>5860847
(at least 50ms lag total)

>>5860847
> 16 for the OSSC alone.
>These are measurable facts
Except that OSSC has been measured 1-2ms.

>>5860856
I thought that poster was saying the OSSC was 16ms and that was the only lag.
So if the OSSC is only 1ms, the entire setup has at least 39ms minimum with a NES and about 50ms minimum with SNES

>>5860868
I said 16ms because that's a frame and about a frame of lag is what you're getting total when using a decent monitor+linedoubler setup like that.

>>5860839
I could at least understand if these were issues people were raising for emulations that are still a bit wonky, like certain N64 games and other stuff more recent than that, but in the context of especially 8bit and 16bit, any talk of emulators not being good enough (from a utilitarian perspective) is just rationalization. I get the feeling that a lot of collectors need to tell themselves this to justify not going the emulator route. But like I said before, it's okay to just want the real thing and the physical objects. I just don't like it when people lie to themselves about it.

>>5848610
>being so proud that you spent money on upscaling trash
you're fucking pathetic. CRTs are the only way to play these games. kys nigger

>>5860840
lol, you think you know shit about music you mongo? The fact you think time measures are in miliseconds or tens of miliseconds is fucking hilarious.

b.b..bb.. but muh 81bpm is clearly measured in ms... ri..right?

This >>5860840 comment wins the most retarded of the month no contest.

Where were you /vr/?? when a person playing games on original hardware with 40-60ms of delay ON THE CONSOLE ALONE thought he could notice 8-16ms delay because he once touched his friends guitar while sucking a cock?

>>5860868
>>5860847
OSSC is pretty much no delay, it doesn't do the buffer shit the XRGB does. Same with the 2X. Only the XRGB mini has 16ms of delay. It buffers a whole frame to display. Which is why the scaling looks better and it handles things like interlaced content the best of the three. For non-interlaced and older stuff at 240p or stuff that swaps resolutions, a 2x/OSSC is the better option. This is actually the same issue early EDTV/HDTV CRT sets have. 8ms-16ms or even more delay to get a whole frame worked out to display to you. Either waiting for half the field or several fields before pushing the image. Worst of all some older CRTs have variable delay. Most CRTs are under 1ms (same as OSSC) but the EDTV/HDTV and SOME PVMs or professional sets have the 8+ms I was just mentioning. The Fightan crowd really went crazy over this and has some tests you can find out there about what pro sets have no added delay. AGAIN IF YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE PRETEND MORONS THAT THINKS THEY CAN SEE TENS OF MS DIFFERENCE. WHICH YOU CAN'T YOU RETARDS. Even the fightan crowd just wanted to avoid 'variable' delay.

>>5860942
> Most CRTs are under 1ms
Wrong. Total lag? All CRTs have at least 8ms.
>AGAIN IF YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE PRETEND MORONS THAT THINKS THEY CAN SEE TENS OF MS DIFFERENCE. WHICH YOU CAN'T YOU RETARDS.
Stop shouting retard. Tens of MS? It makes you a retard if you can't tell the difference.
>>5860926
Calm down. Do you have one of those cheap MIDI keyboards? You can try it out yourself. In your soundcard settings, you can change it and try out what it's like playing with 10ms lag, then 15ms lag, then 20 ms etc. You'll find out quickly that above a certain amount it really bugs you. For most people it's probably around 25ms, but good musicians need extremely low latency like 8ms.
Another way to test out your sensitivity to input lag is https://input-delay.glitch.me
Remember, >>5860835

Hey I have a question that is kinda tangential to the purpose of this thread and I felt like you guys would be quite knowledgeable on the subject so I hope you don't mind;

I have a television that I love, it's a huge 52" first generation plasma boardroom display unit. It only goes up to 720p but I have a sentimental attachment to it so want to keep it in use.
The problem is, it only has Component input (And that is only because I bought an additional expansion logic board and installed it inside the display, it only had RF in before then), and no sound capability at all. That isn't an issue I have an amp which handles that but i'm having trouble with the component side of things.
Everything these days is HDMI or higher standard, I bought a cheap chinese box that take HDMI input and outputs Component, it worked okay enough but after about a month it started having issues, cutting out, needing turning off and on again several times. I bought another one and it has the same problem, it worked fine for a while and then developed the problem.

Does anyone know of a reliable device which can take HDMI input and output Component, with or without audio I don't mind, I can split that before or after conversion that isn't the issue.
This television surely has many years left in it and I want to ensure that I can continue to enjoy it, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Obviously low delay would be very preferable, I would love to be able to continue playing video games on it as it really is a lovely machine.

>>5861006
https://www.amazon.com/Portta-Converter-Component-Optical-Support/dp/B00KW6BXRG/

>>5861015
I really appreciate the help but that right there is what I have two broken examples of in a drawer under the television, they have different names printed on the metal but I should imagine they're exactly the same inside.

>>5861031
Works For Me™

>>5861040
Well, you know what, that's good enough for me then.
I'll order that one, thank you.

>>5861041
No problem, hope it works out for you.

>>5860835
>Of 53 children with autism, 28 showed delayed pupillary response,

>that's sample size. 50/50 spread onna yes/no reaction.

Oh look its fucking nothing
Thanks modern scientific establishment for making these garbage studies mandatory for career advancement

>>5861104
You're doubting autistic kids have worse reflexes? It's literally the same lower part of the brain which is affected and results in reduced motor functions and reflexes, ability to communicate, higher tolerance of pain, etc. There are literally thousands, if not tens of thousands of studies on autism.

>>5860942
>he thinks you see it
You feel it, retard.

>>5859285
>those words don't mean what the dictionary says, IN MY MIND!!!!

>>5860925
It will never be the 90s again.

>>5862607
It will be the 90's in 71 years

>>5863406
A 90s. Not THE 90s zoom zoom

>>5863428
I assure you, projecting little zoomer, that in 71 years that 90's with be "THE 90s".

>>5863583
Seriously, when you get older you'll understand.

>>5839012
Cause S-Video to a good CRT is the only way to play the game. No Lag, No Shills, No Jews. The real way a white man plays a retro console.

>>5842087
>Then why do modern TVs have a game mode?
Cinema mode has obscene amount of post processing and motion interpolation/smoothing. The difference between game mode and movie mode an be 80ms or more. In game mode a modern LCD is in the 13 to 17ms range, commonly. That is better than most mid tier computer monitors only a few years ago, and still on par with the average IPS computer monitor today.

In the mid 2000s tvs were so bad, guitar hero had a lag calibration feature to make the game playable. Today even an entry level budget 4k tv is sub 20ms, and the fewer smart tv and "features" it has the better. This is why the low end sonys and visio 4k tvs make surprisingly good 40" monitors.

is there a upscaler but for dicks?

>>5863653
It's called SizeGeneticsn No, really!.

>>5863653
It's called SizeGenetics. No, really!

>>5863592
Seriously, my projecting little zoomer, I understand exactly how important it is to you to pretend that you're "old" by saying things your little zoomer mind thinks old people would say.

>>5839012
You can get far superior results for free with an emulator. Or just use a CRT.

>>5864390
You're mentally ill. Please have a fatal accident.

>>5864942
>wishing someone ill
>projects illness
kek

>>5864942
>when you're so btfo on an anonymous image board that you wish the person who made a fool of you was dead
Mentally ill indeed

>>5839168
>>5840920
What's wrong with OSSC?

Because unless you live in a cage under your wife's bed, there is no reason not to just get a CRT for 20 bucks.

>>5866928
>for 20 bucks
Wait, people PAY for consumer CRT sets? You can probably get some boomer to pay YOU to haul off their 32" trinitron for them.

>>5866928
You say that like they're mutually exclusive.

>>5866938
>tfw have no friends so I had to spend 200 dollars in shipping for a 20 inch trinitron wega

>>5839012
Input lag

>>5839012
I don't, I have a Framemeister because I live in a shit area and could never find a PVM.

>>5839218
I have RGB for many of my consoles, but DESU while it's better than S-video and I can tell the difference, it's not really THAT much to me, nowhere close to S-video vs composite.

I don't hate them, I just would rather use a CRT. Not everyone has the space for (or access to) a CRT to feasibly use one, so scalers still fulfill a purpose and I don't think less of you for using one. It's just another way to play the games.

>>5866938
Yeah my friend got one of those big bois from some old guy for free. We had to get it up his narrow stairs and it was nearly impossible though. Worth it however.

>>5866923
Nothing is wrong with it if it's used properly except of course that it's "not a CRT and therefore has lag or whatever."
Note that I have absolutely never discerned noticeable lag which I could attribute to using an LCD. That said I'm a normie and only slightly above par at fighting games. RPG's are my jam.

That said my friend did kill his OSSC because he was being a dumbass and plugged in some random AC adapter that fit. When something costs that much money, I'd hope that it at least has a bridge rectifier built in to prevent reverse polarity (Admittedly, most consoles don't have bridge rectifiers unless they're the NES, so chalk that up to his stupidity rather than problems with the OSSC).
I use CRT's but like the OSSC a lot, mostly because it's not some proprietary bullshit solution.

>>5840715
No, it's the lag between you pressing buttons (the input) on the controller, and the moment the effect is shown on screen. That is what input lag is.

>>5840989
Retard. Do you have any idea how long time that is? No. So I will tell you. If the game is 30 FPS, then 1 frame is 33ms. That is a HUGE amount of time when it comes to noticing input lag. Also a huge amount of time when it comes to LCD pixel refresh cycle (not the hz). You would never tolerate playing on a 33ms LCD. So why the fuck would you be okay with 33ms of input lag?