/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5844654
Why would I use that when all TVs have RGB SCART?

>>5844654
I just use the cables that come with the console.

>>5844654
Poor bait. Do you want discussion OP? This dead horse has been beaten to a pulp, you're now just making squishing sounds with your beating stick.

Seriously, adapting cables and video formats is reddit tier, 101 level shit. We expect more from you if you post on 4chan.

I mainly use YPbPr even on my PVMs now since I have them looped on into HD displays so if I want to switch into a progressive scan mode, I can. Scart doesn't support it. The difference in color and contrast is a non-issue not for the reasons OP claims though, which is why you can tell he's just trolling. The real reason it doesn't matter is that CRTs can be calibrated. In like five seconds for PVMs since they have knobs for both those things.

>virgin ARR JEE BEE
>CHAD Y-PB-PR
Just say them out loud. "Arr jee bee. Wye pee-bee pee-arr."

YPbPr is inferior to RGB

>>5844654
>>5844709
Why would you spend the time modding consoles for component when for the same amount of effort you could use RGB? Less effort if you want to just stick with stock connectors and use scart pinouts.

Or are you talking about a transcoder?

>>5844727
They're mathematically identical. The only difference is in the very very small amount of power is takes to transcode it. YPbPr does tend to take a measurable dip in its contrast and color signals as Anon pointed out but it's laughably well within the range of any display's calibration unless you run everything maxed for some reason. The flip side, as I already pointed out is that while YPbPr is standardized all the way from low to high resolutions, RGB isn't. For example a PS3 with a YPbPr cable plugged into it will go all the way up to 1080p while an RGB scart cable will only let it go to 576i or whatever

>>5844731
I don't know how you'd go about modding a console for YPbPr without a transcoder.

>>5844749
Same way a console generates RGB natively. If you're taking RGB > Transcoder > TV that's about the dumbest chain you can make. At best you're have the quality of the RGB signal before the transcoder and with the chink shit available it's not going to get that. And the mess of cables.

>>5844665
So you don't have to pay >9000 3rd world currency units for a switch box/cables?

>>5844654
It really just comes down to what hardware you have. If all I had were consumer CRTs, I'd be content with component, and I think spending the time/effort to RGB mod consumer sets rather than just using a transcoder is a bit silly, unless you're purely doing it as a tinkering hobby, which is fine.

However I do have a PVM, so there's really no reason not to use RGB when that's what almost all consoles output anyway, whereas component is only supported started in the 6th gen. So for me, I have older consoles outputting RGB when possible, and for stuff like PS2 and Wii, I use component cables because it's easier and cheaper to set up. Some people say there's a slightly lower quality in the signal, but if that's true it's going to be a very minute difference that probably just comes down to tweaking contrast/brightness/tint.

tldr: component transcoder box is great for consumer sets. Straight RGB if you own a PVM or are european.

>Not taking the true redpill that is composite

>Compatible with pretty much everything without requiring hardware modification
>Gives you the experience the developers intended
>Audio cables can be plugged into stereo equipment for enhanced sound
>Looks just fine on a proper CRT especially since you'll be sitting feet away while playing it like god intended and as enforced by mom

>>5844790
>Gives you the experience the developers intended
If it's what the developers intended, why is the NES the only console that generates a composite image from the start? Even other consoles that don't natively support RGB out like N64 are still generating an RGB signal internally that just gets compressed, which is also why it's so easy to mod them for RGB output.

>>5844654
you forgot,
>remember to buy gold-plated ones!!!!!1111!!!

>>5844801
>mfw people think you need to buy special red/green/blue cables for component when you can just use any old set of RCA cables just fine

>>5844801
>>5844805
>chink shit and missmatched color connectors
Yep definitely still in 3rd worlder time.

>>5844790
American damage control in action

>>5844815
The colors don't matter, retard. They're all just RCA cables. As long as you match the inputs and outputs, it makes no difference.

>>5844823
It's called tiddyness, degenerate.

>>5844824
Not sure if satire or just retarded.

>>5844654
Sorry sweaty but these experts have told me RGB is the way to go

*clears throat*

>>5844869
I remember watching their video where they fuckup comparing standards too. I really don't get how you can screw up understanding inputs.

"Woah my hdmi1 looks different from hdmi2???"

>>5844824
Yo, where do I get big tiddy cables?

>>5844715
They're actually pronounced rigib and yipber

>>5844715
>Wye pee-bee pee-arr
It's pronounced yipbipper, retard.

>>5844757
>consoles can output YPbPr natively
>transcoding RGB to YPbPr is some complex process that's somehow significantly degraded by Chinese pcbs
Uh huh... Tell me more...

>>5844795
That's just the way most video chips work. In that guys defense, back in the 80s console game designers definitely had the expectation that players would use composite at best and mostly RF that's why text is so big compared to arcade games and there's no games with tiny ass sprites like Micro Mages. Still, RGB is the gold standard set by those arcade machines and if a person wants a "blended" aesthetic it's a hell of a lot easier to muddy up a component signal than it is to clarify a composite one.

>>5844909
Y/c Svideo really gets overlooked as a middle ground standard and it's quite good. Consoles like Genesis oddly lack support for it but it can also be simply transcoded/combined from RGB if that's the staccato you want to use. It's really A-minus tier.

>>5844909
I got some S video cables for my GameCube for gameboy player but I'm missing the better colors of component/RGB already. It's pretty hard to go back after experiencing the best.

>>5844869
Holy fucking shit, please tell me the guy at the bottom is playing some kind of special ed character

>>5845058
Nope, he's just bad at posing naturally.

Newfag here, isn't OPs image composite cables? He calls it YPBPR, but I thought that referred to component cables which were split into 5

>>5845103
He actually posted RGB cables, not component OR composite.

>>5844654
shoild I get a retrotink so I can run all my scart/rgb converted consoles to my HDMI tv?

>>5845103
>>5845113
The video signal in component goes over 3 connections, the extra 2 you're thinking of are left and right audio. Composite uses 1 for video and 2 for audio.

>>5844986
>Y/c Svideo really gets overlooked as a middle ground standard and it's quite good.
I would've been fine sticking with s-video if not for the genesis. There was only so much I could take when its composite output looks like pic-related, and the only step up from there without mods is RGB.

>>5845124
retrotink does not support rgb

>>5845261
sorry let me clarify, i have the sega and snes on scart > YUV converter box, so they are component ready. that will work with Retrotink

>>5845261
It's really annoying how retrotink does composite/s-video/component but no RGB, and the OSSC only does component/RGB but no composite/s-video. You'd think people would think to just include all these options in one unit.

I don't bother with scalers, but I'd pick one up if it were capable of composite/s-video/component/RGB as well as capable of outputting both digital and analogue, for use with either a modern flat-screen or on an old school CRT PC monitor.

>>5845124
If you're going to shell out for an upscaler box, just get an OSSC

>>5845478
i have svideo and composite too though

>>5844654
>indistinguishable from rgb
Component's fine, but no.

>>5844986
>chink trash
>anywhere near what a 9a60/variant does or some from Extron/Kramer
Uh huh... Tell me more...

>>5845251
what shader ?

>>5845482
If you're not planning to get the best video possible, there's not much point to an upscaler box if it's not out of necessity, I think. And even if you only wanted to use it with a VGA CRT then I wouldn't recommend it anyways since it can't take 480p.

>>5845530
n64 cant support higher than svideo without a mod
NES cant support higher than CVBS
my OLED only accepts HDMI or composite only.

I just ordered some of those for my xbox original to play progressive scan on my plasma screen

>>5845495
that's my actual genesis outputting composite to a sony trinitron.

>>5845536
>>5845124

The RGB mods for retro consoles are either very simple or very much worth the effort. Zero negatives and all are accurate.
And most all them are non damaging. It's not like the HDMI mods which are a shitshow.

The OSSC uses HDMI so will work with TVs for a long time.

>>5845596
>the chip for the N64 mod is perpetually sold out
couldnt even RGB mod it if i wanted to man

>>5845603
Seems in stock to me. Sure you're looking at tims board and not the hdmi one? You probably know but the early revisions are basically an amp. Just make sure it's one of the updated designs that handles the brightness better.

>>5845368
vgp is going to release a composite/S-Video to component converter

>>5845607
if i go here https://www.retrorgb.com/n64rgbmod.html

the first link for Voultars is OOS
the second like for retrofixes is "expected in stock soon"
the third link is just for a diy version

>>5845613
Voultars is proably the best it seems today. It's what I plan to go with. Before I used the "standard" ones with extra resistors. Send him an emial. He's usually quick to respond.

But any of those three should work.

>>5845623
It’s been out of stock for months you think emailing him will make it appear?

>>5845632
Unless something happened to him that I missed. A lot of his stuff is open source so maybe he cane just send you some gerber files and you can get your own pcb.

Also that other board I mentioned is still an option just expensive. And tims board has that switch for the de blurr thing. I don't like the de blurr results but some do.

>>5844654
Composite godrace here.

>>5845613
what kind of n64 do you own? Assuming NTSC, most only need the extremely simple rgb mod. I had very little experience with soldering and I was still able to do the DIY kit myself, and it only cost a couple bucks for the parts from console5. You just put the amp on the included board, put on a couple of those little tic-tac capacitors, solder the RGB wires, and connect it on top of the AV multi-out. It was incredibly simple to do. And cheap.

>>5845609
I guess that's a solution, but I don't see why there can't just be a version of the OSSC that also includes composite and s-video input.

>>5845780
I have the CPU-05 versions
https://nintendo64.fandom.com/wiki/NUS-CPU-05
so apparently i can still do the "easy" mod
are you reffering to this? https://console5.com/store/nintendo-multiav-add-on-rgb-bypass-s-video-kit.html
im not worried about soldering ive done it many times on other things, just want to make sure im getting the right thing.

>>5845485
Okay a 9a60 is for high frequency RGBHV often referred to as "VGA" it would not work at all with the 15khz interlaced RGBS signal output by retro consoles so I guess "chink trash" that actually does the very simple SD to SD transcoding would not be very near to something that wouldn't work at all. Extrons and Kramers are switches,very capable of switching, amplifying and distributing any kind of component video sources be they YPbPr or RGB. I don't think they transcode one to the other though. Maybe there's some model I'm unaware of.

>>5845813
The 9a60 is useful for the DC. The other's do 240p.
>Extrons and Kramers are switches
These companies have entire catalogs of AV equipment. Especially Kramer in the context of RGBS to YUV transcoder. You're really ignorant on the subject.

>>5845780
was it hard to solder down the little square pieces?

>>5845863
https://www.kramerav.com/us/products/scalers-and-converters

I see no RGB input converters and not even an RGBS option, grayed out or otherwise but... okay. Again, transcoding ow frequency RGBS to YPbPr is a very simple process there's no need (or it looks like market) for premium hardware. Shinybow is the "name brand" for this particular gadget but I think it's made in China too.

>>5845957
See the FC-15 if you want specifically RGBS to YUV. The RGBHV ones like the FC-14 etc can also do 240p.
The problem is you're looking at the American catalog. We have no use for a specific RGBS transcoder like that.

>get a trinitron CRT with composite
>play Sonic
>waterfall still looks like this instead of having the nice dithering effect
What am I doing wrong? Should I go for RF?
The effect works in my other cheaper TV's composite image.

>>5846027
You need a low pass filter.

>>5845865
It wasn't too difficult, but it was definitely the hardest part of the mod, just because they're so tiny and merely touching one with the tip of your finger will cause it to stick. Or worse, getting stuck to the soldering iron. Just have to use very small tweezers and be careful. As you can see from my picture, I didn't do the most professional job with those bits, but it's still solid.

>>5845789
Yup, that's the one I used. Worked like a charm.\
You can also check out Voultar's video to help walk you through the mod. However his video has some extra stuff where he takes off a couple capacitors from the board and attaches a csync line. However I wasn't sure whether or not this was necessary, and when I tested my board after just doing the RGB lines, it worked perfectly, so I left it at that.

Maybe certain boards don't have csync wired up ahead of time, but mine definitely did. And I know it's csync because I run it through an extron crosspoint that shits itself when using sync-on-composite instead of csync.

>>5846027
Why do people care about 1 or two cases of dithering when literally everything else is better

>>5846045
I don't get it either. And the unblurred sonic waterfalls honestly just look fucking cool.
There is just no way to justify composite on genesis. I can understand people being okay with composite on other consoles where it's not too bad, like SNES, N64, etc, but with Genesis? No fucking way.

>>5846045
>>5846047
I'm not playing on Genesis, I'm using Saturn. Composite looks quite good, but I'd also like it if the dithering worked. I thought dithering worked in composite by default, I guess not.

>>5846049
Oh, you're playing Sonic Jam? Never been a particular fan of that. I experience some stuttering issues with Sonic 2 and 3.
That's fair enough then. Saturn has much better composite encoding than Genesis.
You also have to keep in mind that a lot of the composite dithering on Genesis games only works because of just HOW BAD the composite is on it. Genesis composite is comparable to RF on other systems, IMO.

>>5846051
On Sonic 3? It runs perfectly on Jam as far as I can tell. Sonic 2 is the one that has slowdowns (although it's weird, some of the original slowdown present on the MD version is not on the Jam port)

>>5846070
I could've sworn sonic 3 has issues as well. But it's been a while since I played Jam so maybe it's just 2 and I'm getting them mixed up.

The list of signals from worst to best

RF
CVBS
YC
YPbPr
RGBS

>>5846267
RF <<< CVBS <<< YC << YPbBr < RGBS

I see no point in using anything but RF or RGB. RF for home console authenticity and soul, RGB for arcade authenticity and picture quality.

>>5846335
>authenticity

>>5846657
Actually, when you try that hard and fail it does kind of trigger me. Into a fit of giggles.

>>5846657
You are like a little child. Watch this.

>>5846035
thanks friend, i ordered the modchip we'll see how it goes in a few days

>>5847025
very cool, best of luck. If you have any issues I might be able to help if I'm browsing /vr/ at the time. Of course I can only go by my own experience, and apparently N64s can differ, which I'm assuming is the reason I didn't need to hook up csync while others do.

>>5845251
That looks perfectly fine you autist. It does not in any way affect how the game plays.

>>5846027
He fell for the aperture grill meme. Whew lad, next time choose the Chad shadow mask technology.

>>5846267
You mean a list from SOUL to SOULLESS?

>>5847081
well fuck i misread this: https://nintendo64.fandom.com/wiki/NUS-CPU-05
i thought it meant the 05 was the last version for the easy mod, but its the first version that DOESNT allow the easy mod. I can either try to cancel the order, or try my cousin's N64 console, which he got about a year before me so there's a chance it could be CPU-04 or less. man im a dummy

>>5847132
damn, that sucks. At least it's not too much money wasted if you can't make use of it. Unfortunately though I think those later version N64s require the more complicated and more expensive board.

>>5847147
yeah its just $15, and i could probably return it once it got here as long as I tell them i didnt open it. I knew there was a reason I didnt mod my N64 sooner.

>>5847151
if it's any consolation, RGB on N64 isn't that big of a jump as something like the Genesis. N64 is inherently blurry and its s-video output is honestly fine. You just get a little crisper picture with better richer colors. s-video is fine.

>>5847165
right and i have no problem with s-video, what started this whole thing was that i have an hdtv now and it only accepts hdmi/composite, so i was considering a retrotink insteasd of an OSCC since I need that svideo support for my N64, since the OSCC doesnt have it. BUT should i mod my n64 for RGB then i could get an OSCC be and good to go

>>5847113
I didn't really fell for any meme, I got the trinitron CRT for free from a friend. I'm not really THAT invested in this shit, just playing retro games in SD screens as I did back in the day is enough for me. But I was disappointed that this trinitron doesn't do the dithering trick.
My other CRTs, however, do.

>>5847165
There's a GameShark code that let's you disable that anti-aliasing on real hardware

>>5847132
honestly if you don't care about being a little scummy you can buy a used nintendo 64 off amazon or ebay and then return your currnet CPU-05 model to them, none the wiser. Doesn't even make a difference to the 99% of people who aren't going to be modding a 64 anyway.

This is assuming you have a normal dark gray console though. If it's one of those fruit loops consoles, those are all the later revisions that can't do the easy mod.

>>5847113
What's wrong with aperture grille? All the TVs I've ever had since I was a kid have been sonys with AP, since my dad was a big A/V nerd and always got the higher end stuff.

>>5847182
Except for the 320x240 to 640x240 smear. But the OSSC and the ultra HDMI can reverse that part if it matters to somebody

>>5846848
>Watch this.

>>5846049
> I'm using Saturn

Interesting, so maybe the Saturn has a really good composite output. Most of the problems are not the cables themselves.

>>5847284
N64RGB can also reverse it.

>>5845787
Make one, OSSC is open source.

>>5845787
There can be. The question is why can't you see that. I don't use OSSC because I'm not an LCD baby but I do transcode composite to component so I can use a single input on my TVs. The same device would work with OSSC.

>>5847381
Composite on a 13 inch consumer trinitron from 1987

>>5847274
Inherently nothing, but you'll lose the "Genesis waterfalls".

>>5848560
Looks fucking disgusting. I'll hold of on getting a CRT until they start including HDMI and hq2x.

>>5848560

>>5848593
I see the dithering waterfall effect via composite on my aperture grille TV though.
But I've never understood the desire for this. The composite video waterfalls in sonic look like dogshit because of how genesis has rainbow banding due to shitty composite encoding or w/e
like >>5845251

>>5848593
It's more likely due to the set having a comb filter than being aperture grille.

>>5845251
It actually makes it look better, because water can have this effect.

RGB doesn't even support 480p. How can it be better than Component?

>>5849057
VGA is RGB

>>5845483
You'd fail an ABX test between the two and you know it

>>5849057
Yes it does. Ever used a PS2?

>>5849057
RGB supports up to 1080i retard.

>>5849473
>>5849523
ypbpr does, not rgb.

>>5849547
>doesn't know about RGsB

I use pound hd link cables

>>5849057
SCART doesn't go higher. RGB technically could do whatever we want.

All these idiots here pretending to know shit and they are wrong.

>>5849523
>>5849547
>>5849550
Just stop.

>>5848560
The rainbow is not cool dawg

>>5849057
RGB "supports" whatever your display can sync to. If your monitor can't sync to non-15khz modes in RGB mode, it's not the formats fault..

>>5844654
This

There is no perceivable difference between YPbPr and RGBS if at all, even taking C-sync into account, especially on a CRT.

>>5844823
What about impedance and things like that. Aren't some cables better suited to the higher bandwidth of a video signal?

>>5849691
What you're seeing is not rainbow banding, it's imperfect convergence because it's such an old set I would have to physically tweak the bands on the deflection yolk to recalibrate it which I'm not going to do.

>>5849547
>>5849686
The Getaway lets you use 480p but only through scart.

>>5849686
SCART can technically go higher too, the spec doesn't require any particular resolution, but almost nothing did.

>>5849919
The increase in bandwidth is due to using three signals, not the specific wire in the cables themselves.

>>5851015
You absolutely should be using true coaxial cable at video frequencies. Non-coaxial audio style RCA cables might be ok'ish for short distances, but anything over few meters and the cross-talk and interference starts to show and hear.

It doesn't have to be some ridiculous overprized cable, just get some regular antenna coax and RCA connectors and make your own, probably better than anything you can buy from stores nowadays.

Does the ps2 output both rgb and YPbPr?

>>5851527
Yes

>>5849686
>Just stop.
rekt

>>5851003
Probably because most existing cables couldn't be spec'd any for higher bandwidth signals, European standards bodies and electronics companies just decided to drop it

>>5852113
Honestly most SCART cables couldn't probably be spec'd for any kind of video transmission at all. All video signals were supposed to be coaxes, but that was rarely the case.

>>5847132
FUCK this shitty soldering gun, pulled the pad right off the board. The tip isn’t fine enough for mini resistors either. Guess I’m back to svideo again

>>5852623
Oh god what he fuck are using as a solder? At least give it some flux for gods sake...

>>5852626
the solder keeps evaporating and melting to the tip.
the solder says 6040 tin lead with 2% flux

>>5852630
Wait a minute, a soldering gun. Like this?

No...

>>5852634
soldering iron sorry... its a vastar i got from amazon but its pretty awful

>>5846657
there is nothing wrong with composite desu
some games even look great, like PS2 games like Devil May Cry and MGS2 and certain Genesis games and shit look fantastic over composite on a late consumer CRT set
I have component cables for my LCDs and CRTs that have them, but sometimes composite just werks and is all you really need

>>5852574
SCART-SCART cables with proper 6x coax lines inside (and separate shielded audio groups) are pretty common. Console - SCART cables often did cheap out though.

>>5852623
sounds like you've got temperature waaaaaaay too high. Big tip is fine for those resistors, it's all in how you use it and what shape.

>>5852634
>tfw you can't go to school tomorrow because someone posted a picture of a soldering "gun"

>>5852738
>there is nothing wrong with composite desu

Except the image is fuzzy, has bleeding pixels and the colors are oddly saturated. Try playing any game with dithered graphics.

Just stepping up to S-video makes a drastic difference over composite.

>>5853127
Those do exist, but most generic cables that came with equipment or were sold in stores were subpar multicore cables lucky to have a foil for shielding.

>>5853254
all the generic stuff i've got on clearance sales was multi coax, but then again scart wasn't that common where i am.

>>5844709
don't be a retard, of course SCART supports higher resolutions than 480i.

>>5852623
you are using flux, right?

>>5853305
On very few devices

>>5853341
>>5853129
my flux was so old i tried using it and it didnt help much, so yes im pretty much to blame either way.
however i realized i also did not have the right rgb/component cables..so it probably wouldn't have shown a picture anyways.
so I have two options

>buy another chip - $15
>buy csync cable - $30
>buy OSCC - $200?
or
>use svideo and buy retrotink - $100

>>5852623
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH WTF ARE YOU DOING OMG
send help

>>5852630
use flux
>the solder keeps evaporating
that's the alcohol (or whatever is used as solvent) of the flux
>and melting to the tip.
use flux
adjust to proper temperature
use flux
use more flux

>>5853391
chink OSSC is $130 now. Why csync?

>>5852623
>welcome to /vr

>>5853454
i have a snes multiout > scart cable that I use to feed into a YUV box which sends component out.
it works fine on the SNES but apparently there's a different pin arrangement for n64 rbg cables. ive heard mixed thoughts on chink versions of oscc.

>>5853521
Which SNES cable in particular? Most N64 RGB mods are wired to use same cable as NTSC SNES.

>>5853546
Nothing special, I bought it on ebay about a year and a half ago. if it IS the case that the cable is fine, then I fucked up something big. even with the R lead being severed i shouldve seen SOME sort of picture.

>>5853561
Ye that cable should work fine. You did fuck up the soldering big.

>>5853570
any tips for those microscopic resistors?
the N64 still works through svideo/composite so im just back to square one at this point. i could buy another pcb and transfer the old components, or just buy the whole set over again and try again with flux

>>5853561
>Cheap scart cables
full retard

>>5853579
use correct temp, use flux.

>>5853636
And quality 60/40 multicore flux soldering wire. Some china crap sold as 60/40 seems more like pure tin and flows terribly.