/vr/ - Retro Games

Nice bro, you belong with the shmupers in the hall of achievements no one cares.

>>5837963
It's "I before E except after C," Andrew

Where will you go next?
Wizardry 2 is an addon with a new high level dungeon if you want to keep your party.
Wizardry 3 has a new alignment based trick dungeon and imported characters are remade as level 1.
You've probably heard legends about 4.
Wizardry 5 revamped the system and tried various new contents like NPCs or diving pools. You can import characters with the same restrictions as 3, even between the FM Towns and PC98.

How are the Famicom versions?

>>5839463
You need some way to use the Data Recorder for transfers. Unlike the American NES versions they aren't censored so they're not the worst way to play the games but I don't see a special reason to play them over the other ports.

>>5839429
to be honest, not entirely sure. After a little break and some Elminage Gothic sessions in between I guess next is 2. Already imported the characters to see how it works
(the guys in the picture got tiltowaited on turn 1, the chevron was awarded to a different party)

>>5839490
2 is definitely the best place to go next.

>>5839490
Did you use HAMAN?

>>5839785
I didn't use it on turn 1 which probably was a mistake, on the same turn the guys got wombo combo'd by a tiltowait and madalto.
The second party nuked the enemies into oblivion with 2 tiltowaits and 1 malikto. Werdna resists spells like a motherfucker but I got lucky on the third spell.

>>5839490
>Elminage Gothic
Do you draw your own maps/take screenshots of the magic map? I did that for a while but got kinda impatient so I used a mod for infinity maps. I know, it's not the proper way, but I reckon I got a bit more lazy/less hardcore over the years.

>>5839931
>>Elminage Gothic
>Do you draw your own maps
this, with grid cartographer. The usual method like with Wizardry works perfectly, and Elminage doesn't let you add notes in-game so it's really helpful to mark notable spots.
It's up to each player how easy they want to make the navigation, but external mods ruin the game and fun of exploration imo.

What's the best, simple program for mapping yourself but if you don't wanna pull out graph paper? Grid Cartographer needs a key, anything free and super simple?

>>5840096
Paint.

>>5840096
yeah you could use paint with an image like this or the official mapping aid, but I dislike using the mouse, bucket fill etc.

>>5839931
>>5839939
Since we're pulling out non retro stuff, do you guys like Etrian Odyssey? I'm on the fence with getting it.

>>5840195
Never played it unfortunately, but I've heard plenty of great things about it. It is, however, markedly different from Wizardry and isn't quite a Wiz-clone like Elminage is.

>>5840195
they're alright, very simplistic level design though especially in the 3DS titles. Favorite game is 3

Best Wizardry game/clone to start with that has automap? I know the PS1 version has optional automap but I'd rather just play a game designed to use it to begin with

I've noticed a lot of these games lack the spark of the actual Wizardry games btw, Wizardry Empire and Eliminage (both made by Starfish, Eliminage pretty much being unofficial Empire) is literally nonsensical labyrinths and it seems to be made for people who want to grind, Etrian Odyssey came off as being very simplistic/a bit easy, Wizardry Gaiden is great, Class of Heroes also seemed really boring and in the vein of Empire, just a lot of grinding, anything I should check out?

>>5840278
probably not what you're looking for, but I loved MM6 and how its vast dungeons weren't meaningless corridors, but functional rooms like dormitories, chapels, jails, fortifications...

>>5840278
Grimoire : Heralds of the Winged Exemplar

>>5840278
>literally nonsensical labyrinths and it seems to be made for people who want to grind
The majority of Japanese Wiz-clones suffer from these. It's like part of their DNA at this point. I think the only Jap RPG company that makes mazes and labyrinths that actually makes sense in-game would be Experience Inc. Their forests feel like forests; their castle have corridors, hallways and ballroomsl their mines are complete with pulleys and trolley carts. It still does not excuse the insane grind their games have (Stranger of Sword City being particularly grindy).

>>5841317

Gaiden is great though, and even Sakura Dungeon has noteworthy dungeons with clear intentional design, I think a lot of Jap gamers literally just like grinding.

Also I'm playing the SNES version of Llygamyn Saga, I just got the Dumapic spell, uh, does every version of the game have this spell? I thought there was no automap? As far as I can tell, even old PC FAQs mention it, so has it always been there?

>>5841597
for SNES you can change between traditional coordinates and the newer map

>>5841610

ur the bomb

now if you could just tell me how the fuck to interpret these co ordinates

>>5841635
all maps follow a 20x20 squares format, 0 east means leftmost, 19 rightmost
0 north means bottom, 19 north means top
see pic, you are in the marked spot

>>5839490
>>5837963
What release of the game is that, anon?

>>5841657
PC98
https://ia800100.us.archive.org/view_archive.php?archive=/22/items/NeoKobe-NecPc-98012017-11-17/ASCII.zip

emu
http://nenecchi.kirara.st/

the emulator to download is np2fmgen.7z
the right executable np21nt.exe

>>5841654

it's actually backwards, I'm at 9,0, and I know this because I both mapped out everything and saw my placement on the automap it gave me, so that's simple enough, it just gives you YX instead of XY

My bigger question is though, what's that third number?

>>5841723
>it just gives you YX instead of XY
well that's curious
1 down means B1F, so the first floor.

>>5841654
I'm mad this asshole decided to remove the free version altogether.

>>5841736
well seeing how well the software has served me, I'm glad I supported him. Can't complain

>>5837990
I care.

>>5837963
nice fuckin work OP, what version did you play?

>>5839482
they used the FC tape drive for save files? That's fucking rad. I almost want to pick them up just for that experience.

>>5839490
I remember your last post about this, that was a good thread overall. Glad to see more wizardry posting here.

>>5841897
PC98

>>5841903
any reason you chose that version in particular? I played the SNES version on a long flight once, was pretty fun. I tried the apple 2 but it seems like encounters are more cruel, got a party beheaded by a group of ninjas way above my level on the first damn floor.

>>5841907
a few threads back people said that it's one of the last ports under the supervision of the creators, and that later versions put in bad voodoo shit like increased bonus stats, thief ambush attack and permanent automap. PC98 looked nice and I found it very pleasant to play with the delay and speedup options.
I suppose the Windows 95 version is also decent if you hide the damn automap window.

>>5841915
cool. Guess I will have to track that version down and give it a go, see if there are PC98 emus for debian

>>5841915
Not the last, the only. Woodhead traveled to Japan to help Foretune port Wizardry to various Japanese computers, which were developed at the same time and are more or less identical outside of graphic detail. The PC98 version is just the one with the best graphics, it's functionally identical to the other ports Foretune made at the same time.
All later western ports used Foretune's versions as their base, since it was developed with the idea of allowing for easy porting to other systems in mind.

>>5841917
There's XNP2kai and DOSBOX-X.

>>5841915

Thief ambush really does change the game up, I wouldn't mind restarting on another system, once you have it mapped out it makes starting new parties easier anyway

>>5841901
>they used the FC tape drive for save files?
They didn't. He's meming you.

>>5841924
Why can't you properly correct it and say it used ASCII's Turbo File instead of using the word meme?

>>5837963
>R E C I E V E
Yikes.

>>5841901
It uses a battery-backed RAM device called the TurboFile

I took a break for Wiz1 on SNES to try Gaiden

I'm still not sure how I feel about mapping myself, I can't tell if I think it's a meaningless mechanic to extend game time or a meaningful way to force the player to interact with the game. Gaiden feels a bit boring though because without having to memorize spell names, and map the dungeon out, and grind out an initial party, it turns the game into a literal slog, and at least in the first level of the dungeon, there's not enough puzzles or interesting things to find in the dungeon to make it all that fun. Why can't these games just be littered with puzzles non stop, like La-Mulana?

>>5843872
>meaningless
I assume you thought the spinners in Wiz 1 were just a pointless distraction and not a really nasty trap as well.

>>5844060

I haven't gotten that far

No I mean I genuinely can't tell how I feel about it, sometimes I really dearly love the mapping, and sometimes I just feel a bit exhausted by it, sometimes it feels really engaging and other times it feels like a pointless slog

Sometimes it just feels arbitrary

>>5843872
There's bit of puzzles later on.
At one time you have to build a time bomb.

>>5844191

Where are the dungeon crawlers that are just packed with puzzles and lateral thinking? Like Ultima Underworld or King's Field, but as a gridder

>>5843872
>Why can't these games just be littered with puzzles non stop, like La-Mulana?
I'd be mad if they did. I want to kick ass and explore, not play Layton.

>>5844258

You don't like games like Grimrock?

>>5837963
now play as WERDNA in Wiz4

>>5840116
not drawing your map on paper

>>5844261
not really
a game like
>>5840384
has just the right ratio of action and occasional puzzle

>>5844264

I might play MM, I'll take any recs you have, because I really don't like the core gameplay loop of Wizardry right now, and I need to try something else to see what I like

I remember liking Pool of Radiance, because there was a lot of things outside the dungeon crawling to try to figure out and fiddle with. (Shame about that interface though)

>>5839931
>take screenshots of the magic map

>>5844262
now pronounce WERDNA

>>5844293
*W*E*R*D*N*A*
>ワードナ

>>5844291
I know, I know, but over the years I kinda got less into the whole "draw your own maps" deal. Used to do that a lot when I was younger. Guess I'm just old now, I don't know. I know automapping takes away the magic of exploration but now I kinda appreciate it.

>I know automapping takes away the magic of exploration

Wizardry's IP is still with Acquire right? They haven't done anything with it since the PS3 era.

>>5844520
Weird how the japs have not yet made a wizardry gacha.

>>5840278
>Wizardry Empire and Eliminage (both made by Starfish, Eliminage pretty much being unofficial Empire) is literally nonsensical labyrinths
I don't think we played the same games.
Saying Wizardry is also better off than those games is pretty absurd, Wiz only started to get consistently less "videogamey" dungeons at the end of the series.
>>5844520
Unfortunately, yeah, it's there to rot with Acquire.

>>5844762
wasn't labyrinth of lost souls pretty good?

>>5844762
Play Empire, there's a difference

the early games at least have defined corridors and rooms, and puzzles and stuff, like the SE section of the first level in Wiz1, Empire/Elminage have none of that.

>>5844896
>Empire/Elminage have none of that.
Why must you lie like that?
What do you gain by lying on a retro videogame board on the internet?

>>5844925

idk, maybe I didn't get far in enough, but from the little I played of Empire, and Elminage Original and Gothic, I didn't get to anything like that, maybe it happens later, idk

>>5844928
Oh well, at least you've been somewhat honest now, better late than never I guess.

>>5844683
Not enough sexy ladies in Wizardry to warrant a gacha.
Also please don't jinx it.

About to play the PSX version. Is there any real changes to the game with that one?

>>5840483
'Thal spotted

>>5844520
GMO owns the IP, they're the company that did Wizardry Online. Acquire just licensed it.
>>5844683
WizRogue on mobile was exactly that, it's still kinda that on PC but it was re-balanced to not use real money.

>>5837963
That's a very nice job. Are you continuing?

>>5846918
see
>>5839490