/vr/ - Retro Games

vania

>>5835991
Exploration based platformers aren't exactly THAT common.

I personally prefer Hollow Knight though.

>>5835991
Super Metroid is second best.

>>5835991
I cannot think of a single Metroidvania that's worse than Super Metroid.

It's by far the easiest, most broken piece of shit ever made. The game is so poorly designed you can breeze through the whole thing by mashing the same button. Energy is pretty much limitless you don't have to worry about damage at all.

Wait, there is a worse game, it's called SotN, where enemies literally do 1 damage to you.

But Super Metroid is still fucking trash and one of the worst games of all time.

The ONLY reason anyone even gives a shit about this game is because Samus is a girl. If not for waifu autism this game would have been long forgotten.

>the super metroid autist is already here.

>>5835998
Hollow Knight, The Binding of Isaac, Terraria, Stardew Valley; they're the best of their genre really, but they're modern vintage retro style.
Super Metroid simply did it all right and that can't be undone.

not even top 3 metroid

>>5836074
But there are only three retro ones so it has to be. As far as this board is concerned, anyway.

I like that hack of it with the lost forest type part of Brinstar and having to find hidden Chozo statues and shit.
Also, I like AM2R a lot, mostly because I can't cheat on it with savestates and shit so I don't get tempted to cuck myself out of a proper experience.

>>5835998
You're joking?

It's almost impossible to find a damn proper platformer these days because they are all metroid style.

>>5835991
>dumbed down rehash of the original
>best
1 > 3 > 2

>>5836094
What about shovel knight? Or celeste? or super meatboy?

>>5836108
metroid 1 sucks.

>>5836094
Not really, you fanboys call games that were clearly inspired by Megaman or Zelda "Metroidvania" to pretend Metroid is more influential than it really was

>>5836116
>Shovel Knight
This is an old game
>Celeste
Not a fan of these "save state" based platformers. Some people are, good for them.
>meatboy
Flash graphics.

Not saying there are none, I buy the good ones as they come out (Curse of the Moon is amazing), but new metroid style games are out every month, classic platformers, no such luck.

On the subject of Super Metroid, it has REALLY good graphics (better than anything on Playstation or Saturn, to be entirely honest) and amazing atmosphere.

>>5836126
Yes, the glut of 2d platformers where you gain new items then backtrack to open hidden areas with them are based on Megaman and Zelda.

Fucking idiot.

>>5836135
>On the subject of Super Metroid, it has REALLY good graphics (better than anything on Playstation or Saturn, to be entirely honest)

Real talk, is there a single more delusional fanbase than Super Metroid's?

>>5835991
it's never been surpassed by any other video game in my opinion
>>5836032
my sides
>>5836120
this

>>5836156
I am not a Super Metroid fan.

>>5835991
Pretty mediocre desu, Fusion improved upon its shitty controls.

why are anti metroid fags so cringy?

>>5836013
I don't see how that game is better in anyway, unless it's because you don't have a map and thus you need to make your own unless you check a map online?

And that gives some bigger semblance of atmosphere, is that it?

I am genuinely asking, i really don't think there is anything that the original Metroid has that wasn't surpassed by Super Metroid, it's not that Metroid is terrible, i just found Super Metroid to be a lot better.

>>5836249
Autism.

I mean, I'm not a fan of SotN, but I don't bust into SotN threads and shit them up with opinions no one cares about.

>>5836156
You think the sparse releases makes us delusional in our appreciation of the series? lmao
>>5836249
Who the fuck knows >>5836159 wont admit he likes SM when asked about why he likes it. It's impossible to even discuss this shit anymore lol.

>>5836054
BoI is the best Zelda-Roguelike because it's pretty much the only one.

OP here. I'm not a Turbo Autist; I think there are games AS GOOD AS Super Metroid.

Hollow Knight, for instance.

However, as others have said, SM set the trend and the example and I don't think it's been improved on. I just finished Axiom Verge this week and it felt like a slog. Something about for the elements of SM worked together (music, story, graphics, atmosphere, animation, hidden tricks, etc.) in a way no other game I've played ever has.

For a long time, nostalgia made me think Zero Mission was better because of the tighter controls, but the more I play SM, the more it opens itself to me.

>>5836305
It's also so so good

>>5836324
I didn't love it personally, but I get why it gets love. Terraria is pretty good for a while but I feel it really falls apart in the late game where so many enemies ignore walls building seems both pointless and a chore.

>>5836313
I actually liked Axiom Verge, because the setting and lore sucked me in. I didn't like Hollow Knight, because the black and white graphics I found very unpleasant, and I hate "where the hell do I go?" games.

>>5836297
Stop being autistic. I complimented the music and graphics, because they are amazing. I don't care for the game otherwise.

>>5836337
It gets more gamey in its world. You have to have a house off the ground in late game, preferably a tower or floating island, something that tends to the creeping corruption.
BOI is so fun to play in short bursts, once you get the hang of it you're constantly 'one more game'-ing it.
>>5836341
I really liked the emphasis on it being a game and the upgrades revolving around glitching the world.
>>5836345
You're the one who wont admit he likes it and resorts to name calling, wtf is your issue?

>>5836352
Yeah it's a shame I really like it early on and have both bought it a few times and started a bunch of worlds but it always ends up hitting a point where it feels like a chore and I'm just farming junk to fight bosses that aren't fun anyways.

>>5835991
Best game ever

>>5835991
I don't know, I think Hollow Knight might've done that and if not it came very close. Still, that's like what, 23 years of not being topped?

>>5836450
Arkham Asylum is better also.

>>5835991
10/10
Aria of Sorrow

9/10
Portrait of Ruin
Circle of the Moon

8/10
Metroid 1
Metroid Fusion
Dawn of Sorrow

7/10
Super Metroid
Symphony of the Night

6/10
Metroid 2
Harmony of Dissonance

I don’t consider Order of Ecclesia to be a Metroidvania, because it’s actually a good game, but it would be a 10/10 if it were.

>>5836415
Not even the best of within its own franchise

I don't think there's a genre that's more misunderstood by developers than metroidvanias. So many of these games are entirely linear, focused on combat/boss fights over platforming, and use RPG-like character progression (experience/gold grinding) over exploration for hidden items.
Half the metroidvanias that exist today are just your typical stage-based action games in disguise. It's why Super Metroid still manages to stand out after all this time.

>>5836494
Maybe they want to make games like that. The RPG shit comes from Symphony of the Night, but there's tons of semi-linear platformers, especially back on the NES.

>>5836494
That’s because it’s Metroidvania, not Metroid.

These games are inspired by Symphony of the Night and not Super Metroid, thankfully.

Metroidvanias are boring and easy. All challenges can be overcome by going somewhere else and getting a power up.

>>5836503
This guys gets it

>>5836506
Holy shit, never saw this before it's spot on.

>>5836502
>These games are inspired by Symphony of the Night and not Super Metroid, unfortunately.
FTFY

>>5836265
>thus you need to make your own unless you check a map online
I didn't do either of these things.
>atmosphere
Slightly better atmosphere, more challenging (and not only because it lacks a map), world feels more threatening and oppressive, enemies seem more alive, music is slightly better.
>I am genuinely asking
Super Metroid is great. Just not quite as great.

>>5836489
OoE is so boring. Glyph hunting is grindy, enemies are damage sponges and there's virtually no interesting platforming until the bonus dungeons near the end and a tiny bit in dracs castle. Most levels are short and dull. I think it's actually one of the worst Castlevanias there's been.

>>5836392
If you can co op it with some friends it's another experience entirely

>>5836553
Well, you like Metroid so your opinion is wrong by default.

>>5836489
>7/10
>Super Metroid
>Symphony of the Night
>8/10
>Metroid 1
>Metroid Fusion
>>5836492
>Not even the best of within its own franchise
>>5836543
Super Metroid perfected the formula >>5836551

>>5836489
10/10
Metroid
Super Metroid
8/10
Metroid 2
Symphony of the Night
7/10
Circle of the Moon
6/10
Aria of Sorrow
Ecclesia
Fusion

Rest are not worth ranking

>>5836580
This but flip it upside down, Eccesia at 10/10 (skilled based game for skilled gamers) and Super Metroid at 6/10 (brainlet game for people who are shit at videogames).

>>5836583
>Super Metroid at 6/10 (brainlet game for people who are shit at videogames).
It's too easy for sure; still a 10/10.

>>5836571
I don't like Metroid though.

>>5836562
That does seem like it could be more fun.

>>5836647
Some of my fondest gaming memories in the recent past was me and a close knit group of friends racing to get onto our server in the morning and pushing ourselves to beat the bosses get better loot and ultimately complete all the content. It's incredible that for ten dollars it's still being updated with content.
Check out Starbound as well if you're up to it. It's basically Terraria in space, it even has a storymode and jazz.

If you consider Super Metroid anything other than 10/10 you're actually insane

or at least completely tasteless

Metroidvania is unironically the gayest term

>>5836721
t. kotaku

>>5836703
The fact that you can breeze through the game with little to no resistance makes it a 8/10 at most

>>5836156
>is there a single more delusional fanbase than Super Metroid's?
Easily Ocarina of Time. It's no contest.

>>5836743
What can you possibly have against OoT?

>>5836770
It's popular and labyrinthine.

>>5836740
That's just the genre, isn't it? These games are designed with a ton of optional power-ups and nonlinear progression, so the base difficulty has to be pretty low to account for players that skip everything.

>>5835991
But it never surpassed its own predecessor.

>>5836929
facepalm

>>5836506
>>5836503
>>5836508
Samefag

>>5836740
Metroid is an adventure platformer, the fun is not about the difficulty, it's about exploring the environment and becoming immersed in it, looking for items, etc

If you want a game based purely on skill, play competitive vs games, or speedrun ninja gaiden or some shit

>>5836506
Comparing slow paced and story driven RPGs with basically arcade games doesn't make much sense. You look only at one aspect of the gameplay.
A Japanese dev explained that the point of grindy games like final fantasy is that many people don't have success in life, even when they try and an xp based level system to improve gives a secure sense of progress. It's really just a different approach.

>>5835991
Cry harder console fags.

>>5836929
>>5836956
Anon, I...

>>5837297
That's a lovely 'gem from 04
>heh

>>5837137
This. People who just run through Metroid as if it were Megaman or Super Mario or some shit are missing the entire point of the game.

>>5835991
It would be good if the controls weren’t ass. The GBA games and AM2R control infinitely better than this. That fucking run button screws everything up.

>>5836743
Nah that goes to the Majoras Mask cultists.

>>5836770
>Proving my point
In some ways similar to the issues with Super Metroid although more pronounced. I'm not going to get into a huge argument over my problems with Ocarina ITT suffice to say that it's not a bad game, but I find it to be very padded and boring with not enough danger and excitement. The lack of challenge along with the aesthetics also makes it feel more like a game mostly for kids, which isn't a bad thing but try suggesting as much to an Ocarina fan and it will trigger an immediate descent into sputtering rage and hyperbolic accusation. In other words: strong evidence of delusion.

There seems to be a combination of factors that have led to this:

1. A lot of Nintendo-only kids who only ever had a SNES and N64. and first played Ocarina when they were 9 or 10, the perfect age to have some expectations set by ALTTP but young enough to be utterly blown away by an interactive 3D world where you could do amazing things like spend all Saturday morning doing chores for NPCs like rounding up chickens.
2. That cohort also happened to be part of a "baby boomlet" that peaked in 1990, which is not coincidentally the birth year locus of prime Ocarina fanboys, and is likely the mean age of 4chan.
3. Subsequently, no reviewer wanted to offend their core fanbase with a bad review of Zelda.
4. Normal people who didn't like Ocarina just dismissed it as a kids console game and never bothered criticizing it, as they were busy playing one of the other great games that came out in the late 90s (Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Starcraft, Fallout, Everquest, Tomb Raider, Tekken, Final Fantasy, etc.).

So you have a bubble of circle-jerking opinions that are never challenged, leading to delusion. Ocarina's superiority is axiomatic and every other game is evaluated based on how it compares to Ocarina rather than on a more abstract or general criteria.

>>5837509
>The lack of challenge along with the aesthetics also makes it feel more like a game mostly for kids

Not him, but that's basically Nintendo's mandate for almost all of their first party games. They try to appeal to all ages but have to be accessible to kids foremost.

>>5837213
>not considering both SS1 and Super Metroid to be 10/10 masterpieces
pathetic

Is there any hope of the next game being as great as SM was?

>>5837724

>>5837363
>That fucking run button screws everything up.
How? There are very few instances in the game where you need to use the run button, and you're never in danger of being hit in any of them.

>>5837740
>not using the run button every instance you get even during segments where it's not really optimal
The momentum boost your jumps get from it feels great

>>5836135
>Shovel Knight
>old

>>5837297
Zero Mission is a massive downgrade from the original.

>>5837363
>The GBA games and AM2R control infinitely better than this.
Nope. Severely diminished physics; far less interesting and fun to control than SM.

>>5837817
The run button acts as though it's still pressed for some time after it's released, so you don't have to hold it while jumping.

>>5837873
>The run button acts as though it's still pressed for some time after it's released
The run button is actually the "accelerate" button. If you release it while moving, you'll maintain the same speed until you stop moving.

>>5837363
>That fucking run button screws everything up.
The run button makes me feel way more in control of Samus' movement than in the GBA games. In Super, I only build up speed if I want to, by pressing a button. In ZM and AM2R, I build speed as long as I'm moving forward. But what if I don't want to? Maybe I WANT to walk through an area without starting to run? In Super you just don't press the run button, but in the GBA-style games you have to stop moving every so often to shed momentum, which is stupid.

>>5837845
It is old in the context of "real classic platformers rarely come out".

>>5837960
The irony is that it's a retro game, but everyone here seems to think retro means old so in the end they label something new old.

>>5837967
People here think that classic video games ended on Dec 31, 1999 and that the Dreamcast isn't 6th gen, though. So I wouldn't base anything on that.

>>5837974
That's also true but a different subject to what retro vs old vs classic means.

>>5836959
Cope harder casual

>>5838021
not him, but he was right about the last two.

>>5838073
I was replying to someone who replied to me

>>5837724
Considering Fusion, Zero Mission and Return of Samus were all better than Super, it is likely.

>>5837364
What can you possibly have against Majora's Mask?
>>5837509
>hyperbolic accusation
You're the one saying OoT is padded, boring, feels like it's for kids based on the aesthetics. The only realistic gripes I can secede on is a lack of danger and challenge; which Master Quest makes up for and with the rerelease I would go on to suggest they come as a pair to experience. OoT is the first quest, and MQ is the second quest, one is to get a feel for the game and its world, and the latter is to experience the thick of it all.
>You're brainstorming reasons that gamers are wrong for having enjoyed and like Zelda
>You're the fucking delusional one
Holy fuck, we're circle jerking?! We are the ones circle jerking? Everything you have to fault the game for is bullocks! Ocarina of Time set the bar for what a 3D adventure needs to at least be like, get over it?

>>5837974
The real issue is that some of the frequenters of the forum believe discussion needs to be limited to a specific era of gaming. Since not everyone agrees they try to semantically recontextualize each other's arguments to express their opinions.

>>5838136
>forum
You need to go back.

>>5835991
Zelda 2 is the best.

>>5838341
You need to expand your vocabulary welch

>>5837538
Yeah the difference is that Ocarina fans somehow think that doesn't apply to them and get ridiculously offended if you point it out. If I say I don't like Mario Party, nobody gives a shit. If I say I don't like Ocarina I immediately get responses like "What can you possibly have against OoT?" (>>5836770)
And more here: >>5838136
>You're the one saying OoT is padded, boring, feels like it's for kids based on the aesthetics.
How are any of those hyperbolic?
How are they not?
>Padded
This is undeniable compared to previous entries in the series. The player must spend substantial amounts of time reading dialog boxes (or at least mashing through them) and running forward through open space not doing anything. Sure it's not as padded as say Everquest (1999) but that game at least has an interesting excuse for the bloat.
>Boring
Boring is subjective, but I specifically mean because of the lack of good combat and dangerous challenges that were present in previous entries in the series and other games out at the time.
>for kids
Ocarina is absolutely intended for kids. Every Zelda game is. Ocarina fans are the only ones who seem to be hyper-sensitive when you point it out. Although it's true that OG Zelda is actually hard and ALTTP doesn't force you to spend 2 hours interacting with NPCs like Ocarina. But still both games are designed for kids.
>You're brainstorming reasons that gamers are wrong for having enjoyed and like Zelda
That's not what I'm saying at all meanwhile you're proving my point that Ocarina fans are the most delusional of hyper-sensitive fanboys who find their world absolutely rocked the moment they encounter anyone who didn't love that game as much as they did.
>Holy fuck, we're circle jerking?! We are the ones circle jerking?
I'm saying you're the product of a circle-jerk that lasted 15 years (roughly 1998-2014).

>>5838436
It trivializes the nature of the game too much so I said it was hyperbole. When we get right down to it you're free to dislike the game in whatever way but I'm inclined to disagree with your assessments based on personal preference.
Ocarina of time doesn't waste your time needlessly so I say padded and boring is a poor qualifier on your part. The game gives you an unlockable horse and warp songs as part of the main questline. As for the aesthetics, they were top of the line in '98 and many parts of the game aren't kid friendly. The bright and cheerful nature of the overworld exists in stark contrast the dungeons you traverse through on a regular basis.
You talk to people and you have to move from point a to point b, it's ridiculous to call that bloat or similar, the game has to exist in an interactable state for players. If you hack away at everything then you no longer have a game anymore. You're free to dislike it but of course I'm going to defend it, I like it, I appreciate it for what it is, I can deduce what makes it great, and present it for onlooking readers. The difficulty is lacking in the base game but the master quest more than makes up for that. OoT is basically Lttp 3D. Lttp absolutely did have you interact with npcs from time to time and you're ludicrous if you fail to admit it.
>You're the delusional one going out of your way to hate on the game.

>>5835998
>Hollow Knight

I wanted to love Hollow Knight, but only the combat is fun while the exploration is shit. Super Metroid makes you feel like you're going way off the beaten path and discovering big secrets even when you're going exactly where the developers intended. No other game captures this, not Symphony of the Night, not any future Metroids, and not any modern indies.

>>5838436
Fan of OoT here.
I can understand your pov. It's not my own, but it's not hard to understand, being self-aware as I am.
Also, you're 100% right about most other fans.

>>5838021
ok ACfag.

Earthworm Jim is superior

World of Illusion is the greatest platformer of all time

https://youtu.be/MPa1dafMNaA

>>5836135
>On the subject of Super Metroid, it has REALLY good graphics
It's got some nifty FX - like the heat warping backgrounds in Norfair.

>>5837873
Which is great for shooting while running (I have A as the run button and Y for shoot).

>>5838458
>The bright and cheerful nature of the overworld exists in stark contrast the dungeons you traverse through on a regular basis.
It's all still a very kid-oriented aesthetic. Kid stuff doesn't have to be cheerful all the time. Generally, kids stuff lacks subtlety and keeps themes and plotlines simple. When things get dark it's often little details that make the difference. For example, an evil sorceress might have humorously dumb minions.

>>5838949
I love those sort of cool effects. Compared to shoe-horned mode 7 which looks terrible 95% of the time. Though maybe bad example because Super Metroid uses mode 7 well.

>>5839040
I was looking at it yesterday wondering how they did it.

>>5838468
That's possibly because it was one of the first games you played that gave you that feeling. Simon's Quest still gives me those vibes when I play it but I'd hardly say it's the best game of it's type. That said I'm also not that guy and haven't played hollow knight.

People who like exploratory platformers should check out Dark Void Zero if they haven't. It's not a metroidvania but the levels are pretty huge and it gives a very similar feeling.

>>5839038
However kids stuff doesn't typically deal with a convoluted time travel story. OoT isn't extensively a kid friendly game. That's just something that everyone wants to believe. It's more open to everyone and allows individuals to delve deeper for the more mature themes if they so choose. I just find it funny how this can even be something that one nit picks at in the first place. Actively wanting to hate something is some first grade shit.

>>5839046
>That's possibly because it was one of the first games you played that gave you that feeling.

I replay Super Metroid like every five years so I forget the layout by then. It still feels more explorative than any contemporary or successor.

>>5838949
try the super metroid ascent romhack if you like that shit, tons of cool effects there.

>>5839092
>OoT isn't extensively a kid friendly game.
It's more akin to some weird moody 70s animated film that's meant for all ages but would give today's kids chronic PTSD than contemporary stuff that's aimed at kids. It's not pretty, it's not loud, it's not obnoxiously jokey, and with the exception of Navi it's not patronizing.

>>5839393
I'm probably the only one who liked Navi and emphasized with Link trying to get her back in MM. Still, nice analogy guy, it's like an edgy coming of age game.

Replaying SM with little memory of the game itself but nigh-full knowledge of the mechanics, it's a completely different game.

>>5839396
The fairy idea is nice. But what's not nice is that she repeatedly gives you irrelevant tips. If a character's telling you to do something while you're in the process of doing it then that character either comes off as fake or retarded. If they weren't able to improve the contextual relevance then they at least should have made the conversations something that the player initiates, and something that never freezes you in place.

Navi is a sin against the game OoT already was without her, and redundant when Saria's Song was already in place just to be abandoned for a minor plot point after Navi was included. It's thanks completely to Navi that 3D Zelda games have a reputation for being "more linear" than their 2D counterparts for screaming in your ear until you listened to her tell you where to go, and continued screaming if you didn't do it, which prevented players from learning just how open-ended the game world was.

>>5839424
It usually dinged a hotel bell and said Hey Listen and waited for you to initiate. I appreciated the help it gave. Navi told me that there was a cold breeze blowing in from Zora's Domain.. I can't remember what else but she was just as annoying as some of our mothers.

>>5839447
>It usually dinged a hotel bell and said Hey Listen and waited for you to initiate.
By letting the player initiate I meant no bell or flashing text.

>>5839447
She also butts in to say "Watch for shadows of monsters hanging from the ceiling" literally EVERY TIME there are Wall Masters in a room. I understand doing that the first time you encounter them, but it's every single time all the way through the final dungeon, and it really kills any semblance of surprise or tension that could have been felt from suddenly seeing the shadow and realizing there's a Wall Master in the room you have to deal with.

>>5839493
Thanks for reminding me, now I really loved that she warned me of that. Not only were those spooky but they send you to the beginning, fuck that.

>>5839502
To each his own, but I found it hurt the pacing of gameplay and ruined the point of that enemy, which is ambushing the player.

>>5839493
It seems like there's almost always some guy or faction working on every masterpiece Nintendo game that's just an inept simpleton whose sole purpose is to fuck it up just a bit, either by stuffing in a bunch of pointless long-winded dialogue, or by undercutting the tension, freedom, purity, daring, or challenge that would have surged through the game unabated if he weren't such a moron. Nintendo should have hired someone like Kamiya to slap that guy in the face every time he tried to voice an opinion. There were only so many tea tables that Miyamoto could flip on his own.

Aonuma's probably not the worst offender by any means, but I have no doubt in my mind that he should have taken a dozen or two hard open handers across that simpering face to straighten him out and toughen him up; Miyamoto was a hard cunt in his prime, but not hard enough.

Koizumi should be outright bound and gagged and tossed into the Kyoto sewers until he promises to stop trying to use Nintendo games as a platform for his excruciatingly bad writing and questionable design philosophies.

Fujibayashi just needs to be killed.

>>5839502
>>5839502
>Not only were those spooky but they send you to the beginning
Yeah, that's the beauty of them.

>>5839524
>Yeah, that's the beauty of them.
Fuck that

>>5839562
Ladies shouldn't cuss.

>>5839570
You've got a filthy mouth whore

>>5835991
Super Metroid is one of my favorite games, but we have to face the facts - Hollow Knight is overall a better game and Ori and the Blind Forest has better platforming than Super Metroid.

>>5836489
>ranking Circle of the Moon as 9/10
>Metroid 1 is a 8/10 and also on the level of Fusion and Dawn of Sorrow
>OoE, a game which failed as it tried to satisfy both the classicvania and metroidvania fans (with retarded maps like the forest one that is literally one straight line and with most maps not being branched out at all), isn't metroidvania but if it was he'd rate it 10/10
I don't know if you're baiting or genuinely retarded. Literally never post in a Metroid or Castlevania thread ever again.

I like it but I admit it pisses me off that the ending is just basically a scripted cutscene unlike the first and second game.

>>5839834
>ending
*final boss

>>5839767
>Hollow Knight is overall a better game and Ori and the Blind Forest has better platforming than Super Metroid.
These aren't facts; they're the delusions of an overweight nerd with chronically bad taste.

>>5839767
>>Metroid 1 is a 8/10 and also on the level of Fusion and Dawn of Sorrow
>I don't know if you're baiting or genuinely retarded. Literally never post in a Metroid or Castlevania thread ever again.
You're implying that he's underrated Metroid by putting it on the same level as the mediocre Fusion and DoS, right?

>>5839834
Just realize that Ridley is the actual final boss

>>5839834
This: >>5839909
The entire game's plot is about recovering the baby metroid from Ridley. He is the final boss, the climax where everything comes full circle and you confront the foe who defeated you at the start. Tourian is just an extended playable ending cutscene to cap off the experience.

>>5835991
Too easy. Enemies are lame. 1 and 2 both beat it in terms of the challenge and alien designs.

>>5838363
'Forum' has a certain connotation which 'board' does not. Also, this is factually a board and not a forum. You need to go back.

>>5840526
I disagree? also you need to get woke!

>>5840084
Now that's pedantic

>>5839842
The only thing I can give you is that "chronically bad taste" is a creatively put phrase. A shame you have such shit taste though.

>>5839850
On the contrary, he's overrated that aged piece of shit. Metroid 1 is one of the rare NES games that has aged undescribably badly. Zero Mission pushed the whole thing in the completely opposite direction and made the experience too hand-holdy, but even that is better than Metroid 1.

>>5840828
Gotta love the extras at the end of zero mission doe

>>5840828
I used to think like you, then someone on /vr/ convinced me to sit down and play Metroid 1 from start to finish. Now it's in my top 3 of favorite Metroid games and I genuinely appreciate it.

>>5840832
Zero Mission pales in comparison to the brilliant original, but the end section's pretty interesting.

>>5841107
It's one of those games whose greatness isn't immediately apparent. And in my opinion everyone spreading the "map it out with graph paper" suggestion do the game a huge disservice. I tried playing it like that for about 10 minutes and it was tedious and terrible. It's so much better to do it in your head, and if you fail and get lost you just get lost. That's part of what makes it great.

>>5841112
I feel exactly the opposite to both those statements

>>5839834
>>5839909
>>5840084
What are you niggas talking about, mother brain has a harder pattern, more health, and deals more damage than any other boss in the game. It's nothing terribly difficult because it's still Super Metroid, but if mother brain is a scripted cutscene then the rest of the game may as well be a walking simulator.

metroidvania general

>>5841281
Mecha Ridley sucks, sure, but the rest of the extra is pretty interesting.

>>5841116
Mapping out Zelda 1 was part of the appeal, but then Lttp ruined that.

>>5841283
I have always had way more trouble with Ridley than Mother Brain in Super Metroid. The fight with Mother Brain in Super is piss easy, especially compared to Mother Brain in Metroid 1.

>>5841323
I always quit after mother brain. The stealth sequence is lame as fuck and then you have to backtrack through the entire goddamn map if you want to 100%.

>>5841379
This chart's a nice attempt, and the format necessitates condensation, but some of its propositions are ridiculous. Describing Arkham Asylum as "Metroid Prime, but third person and with stealth." is like saying that a bus is a Ferrari, but with more seats. It's true in some sense but at the same time it's misleading. Same goes for "take me back to Metroid's roots"; suggesting Zero Mission for that purpose is like buying a PT Cruiser to experience 1940s American cars.

>>5841348
>then you have to backtrack through the entire goddamn map if you want to 100%
Every Metroid game after Super feels like this, especially the Prime games. I don't know why, but at some point the Metroid devs just completely lost the ability to place lots of power-ups on the map while still giving you organic ways to pick them all up with minimal backtracking.

>>5841508
It's difficult and time consuming with little financial reward. There aren't any competent Zelda clones for the same reason.

>>5841326
Zelda 1 HAS an in-game map. It's the blue brick-looking grid in the top-left. Every rectangle is a screen and there's a red dot for the screen you're on.

>>5841534
Why are you telling me this lol. The appeal of the original Zelda is all the burning and pushing blocks and making notes of it. There's none of that in Lttp, that's basically OoT in 2D. The new Botw is purportedly akin to the original Zelda but in all actuality nothing is.

>>5841573
>The new Botw is purportedly akin to the original Zelda but in all actuality nothing is.
They're similar in the sense that you can go anywhere and do anything without being railroaded into a certain progression order like the other games are, dumbass.

>>5841534
In fact Z1 literally has an auto-mapper for the dungeons even apart from the map which you can discover. Regardless, that wasn't anon's point. However:
>>5841573
>There's none of that in Lttp
That's not true. It's just much easier not as densely focused on it. You still have to keep your bearings and refer to the auto-map (which Z1 also has) to reason about where to go next. Because rooms are all differently shaped it's easier to remember.
>that's basically OoT in 2D.
This is one of the most aboslutely retarded things people say. You have to be fucking braindead to miss the massive number of differences in gameplay, world design, and content between the two games. What is the LTTP equivalent to the Goron sequence, or the Zora's domain, or fishing in Lake Hylia? There's none. In OoT those areas are full of NPCs and quests. In LTTP Zora's domain is a mini-dungeon with Zoras breathing fireballs at you, Lake Hylia is also full of enemies. In LTTP You spend 5 minutes at the beginning of the game exploring the village to get the net, two bottles, and some other minor treasures. Then you're off adventuring. There are very brief cutscenes to set up each phase of the main quest and that's it. It's nothing remotely like Ocarina's elaborate NPC interactions, side quests, and environmental puzzles.

>>5841328
>I have always had way more trouble with Ridley than Mother Brain in Super Metroid.
Man that's crazy to me, complete opposite for me.

Ridley is a bitch, but ultimately by that point in the game I always have enough health to pretty much just focus on pointing up and spamming missiles, don't pay much care to dodging, just hitting, and I'll take hits as long as I'm hitting him and ultimately I win

Mother Brain is much more of a pain in the ass to me, because of all the shit flying around knocking you off the platform making it so you can't aim and end up wasting missiles

>>5842587
>all the shit flying around knocking you off the platform
Do you not freeze the flying rings to prevent more from spawning? Once you do that the whole fight is a joke.

Super Metroid is shit

>>5841573
>the appeal of Zelda 1 is having to map it out
>but the game HAS a map
>why are you telling me this lol. anyway, the appeal is having to map it out

>>5842503
yeah.. right.. but in all actuality nothing is like the first Zelda. There's not really dungeons and item progression in botw, and there's definitely no rewards to exploring. So stfu and never call me names again if you've no clue what it is you're talking about.
>>5842543
I don't care about dungeons being mapped out, it's besides the point. In order to discover things in the overworld, that again results in actual rewards for your exploration, you needed to try and burn bushes and push rocks thoroughly leaving not one unturned lest you missed something. Beating the game even unlocked a second quest in which you had to do it all over again because not much was in the same place.

In OoT you spend ten minutes exploring solving chicken puzzles to get a bottle. You can then go about doing mask sidequests if you want. You can also get a free iron shield if you don't want to explore to scrounge up rupees. Zora's domain also shares it in common in which you do mini games and solve a brain teaser to gain access to the main dungeon. Lttp lays out a lot, a lot of the ground work in which OoT repeats, in 3D, which is my point, they're so gosh darn similar. If you're this dense then don't say that me or anyone is mentally impaired, ever.
>>5842823
Idk how so many of you are this clueless about Zelda 1's design. Nothing is spelled out on any maps, and many of the hints and clues are poorly translated into english. You had to have a knowledge of the game's logic in order to progress.

You all need to slap yourselves for attempting to argue these basic things. It's pointless to hold a discussion if you're off on another page rather than meeting me eye to eye. Just looking to throw insults and the like.
I wish that Zelda 1, and for that matter Zelda 2 would have more direct spiritual successors in line with their core design principles. Botw the newest Zelda doesn't even follow 'the zelda formula' set by Lttp.

>>5836032
you sounds like a faggot

>>5842849

>>5842849
>In OoT you spend ten minutes exploring solving chicken puzzles to get a bottle.
Maybe in your warped memory. Actually try playing through Ocarina again or better yet watch someone who has never played it before play through the first half of the game and measure how much time they spent puttering around Kokiri Forest, Kakariko Village, Hyrule Field, Lon Lon Ranch, Zora's Domain, and the Goron City. Then watch someone playing ALTTP for the equivalent amount of time and compare what you see. It's night and fucking day.

Also the point of comparison here is NES Metroid which literally has no maps at all.

>>5842849
I think maybe you just sucked so much royal dick at Zelda 1 that it's hit critical mass and you've actually convinced yourself that sucking at it is how it's played

>>5842938
Very nice?.. now my actual point about.. the overworld?.. The thing I'm talking about? exploring the outside of a dungeon in order to find the dungeons in the first place? The thing that the newest Zelda that's supposedly in line with the original doesn't do? The thing no other Zelda tends to do? hide equipment upgrades and the link all over the place for you?
>>5842946
It's the exact same experience, they both follow the coined 'zelda formula' whereas my point still stands that there's way more secrets to uncover in Zelda 1. There's no hand holding and you have to discover everything through exploring. Lttp and OoT point you in directions and seldom hides things off the beaten path.
>>5842967
You just need slapped across the mouth. Exploring in Zelda 1 required being thorough and a lot of players would draw up their own maps. This stuff isn't done in games anymore let alone Zelda.

>>5836265
Super always reminds you it's a sequel. There's a lot of shameless one upping of the original. Super bombs super missiles super beam super shoulder pads super speed super kraid super mother brain super heavyweight Metroid. Super has more modern gameplay, but Metroid exudes purity of vision of an original concept.

>>5844438
>shameless one upping
O___O
It's a fucking stellar sequel to a pretty good game. It's so good that returning to play it is super.

>>5844438
Is that a bad thing?

>>5846939
So much indie Flash garbage.

>>5846939
Overrated indie garbage endlessly regurgitating the base formula.

>>5846951 >>5846950 >>5846939
I can vouch for Hollow Knight and Steam World Dig 2, they're really good metroidvanias.

>>5846991
Hollow Knight is more of a 2D Dark Souls than a Metroidvania.

>>5847087
Both Hollow Knight & Salt and Sanctuary combine aspects of metroidvania with dark souls

>>5843691
Since you seem to be a bit unhinged let's try to circle back to the original points:
>>5841573
>The appeal of the original Zelda is all the burning and pushing blocks and making notes of it.
The appeal of the original Zelda('s overworld) is fighting all the enemies as you explore it. It's about that sense of excitement you feel when you figure out the forest maze and arrive at totally new locations you've never seen before, with new sword-chucking lionel enemies and ghosts in a graveyard. Almost nobody needs to fucking map this. The overworld is not a maze, each region has distinct character so you'll always have a feel of where you are (and you can refer to the minimap to be sure). Anyone who draws a map for this is just doing it either because they're artistic or autistic. Taking notes about where you've placed bombs can be helpful if you have bad memory, but I doubt most players bothered with that. Accidentally checking the same bush twice is hardly something to obsess about.

Which leads me to your abject idiocy and braindead insistence on comparing ALTTP and Ocarina:
>It's the exact same experience
It's not even fucking close, as evidenced by the fact that you did not actually do the experiment I suggested and are just generalizing, in the process ignoring (like a fucking idiot) the massive differences in those games.
The emphasis in ALTTP is on fighting enemies, or at least evading them, exactly like Zelda 1. The ALTTP overworld is densely packed with a wide variety of enemies and enemy combinations. Every area offers combat challenge. Even Karariko Village has those women who will call the soldiers on you. Yes, ALTTP gates more than LoZ. But ALTTP still gives you a big chunk of overworld to explore right from the beginning, which is full of combat challenge. Ocarina is even more gated than ALTTP and its overworld has no danger and minimal combat.

>>5847194
>those women who will call the soldiers on you.
ALttP = redpilled.

>>5836054
>Binding of isaac
Your opinion is bad, and you should feel bad

>>5836032
I mean, it's kind of weird seeing you be this harsh toward super metroid when metroid 1 exists.

>>5847230
NPC NPCs

>>5847245
Sucks to be you.

>>5847087
It's still a metroidvania