/vr/ - Retro Games

had nothing like oot /thread

i mean it ain't controversial around here

>>5821348
ah so ps is way better

>>5821348
thank god. it had superior games like mega man legends 2 and brave fencer musashi.

>>5821347
PS1 doesn't have anything as good as SM64 or Ocarina, but despite that I'm going to be generous and say that their libraries are roughly on par.

>>5821357
>mega man legends 2

what's with all these anti-n64 threads

>>5821362
bing bing wahoo, fellow redditor!

N64 titles are only considered le best gaems ever because of marketing and the whole we need to hype the very few gems that we have mindset.

Mario 64 was groundbreaking, sure, but other than that N64 games were not particulary better, not even Ocarina.

I owned both, I don't see why you have to start this shit. Direct your hate towards what really deserves it: The Saturn.

>>5821365
>anybody who disagrees with me is reddit

>>5821347
>Quantity>Quality
Not me no.

>>5821362
That jpg will also come in handy if someone mentions Crash.

>>5821386
based

>>5821386
>Hating on the 5th gen version of the PC Engine
cringe

>>5821389
the ps1 had both, the shit64 had neither.

i wish there was something open world 3d on ps1
no theres not its a bluepilled console

>5th gen console war shit
You kids really get predictable, as well as desperate.
Anyway, Saturn>N64>PS1.
Both Mega Drive and SNES annihilate all 3 of those, though. N64 gets some extra points for having avoided the shit that was CD-based format, though, but it's still a 5th gen system, so meh.

>>5821446
N64 had a lot of things going for it. SNES was still the better platform, but N64 had 4 player multiplayer and a few sequels that were actually improvements (Star Fox, F-Zero).

Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid are two of the most influential video games of all time that continue to influence top-tier games today. N64 has nothing on that level. The 3D platformer is a very minor genre, so, even though Super Mario 64 is a landmark in it, the game cannot be considered so important. OoT is in an even worse situation, contributing very little to its own genre of action-adventure; its combat system is ridiculously simple, and the game ultimately has very little content or interactivity for how expansive it is. Honestly, the most important game released on the N64 is probably Super Smash Bros., which effectively invented a new genre that would become extremely popular, the platformer-fighting game. That, however, is not enough to bump the system up to the level of Sony's PlayStation, with its substantial library of masterpieces such as Bushido Blade, Tenchu, and countless others.

>>5821427
>i wish there was something open world 3d on ps1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbrI9tYaqKQ

>>5821451
Sure, if you ignore that OoT literally invented the lock on system used in countless successive 3d action games.

>>5821347
At the time, definitely. It was much better to own a PS1 than an N64. Now they're all equal, because, as software gets weeded out by time, most consoles generally equalize to roughly the same number of truly important games.

>>5821449
Yeah, N64 had some really good games I won't lie. Saturn also has a lot of great stuff including many fighters and shooters which N64 lacks, shame about the CD format.
PS1 is really derivative, it's the retro console I go back to the least.

>>5821454
Graphics look like a tech demo. Story is stupid.

>>5821451
>>5821456
OoT influenced future 3d games tremendously, but so did Tomb Raider and Soul Reaver. N64's platformers were amazing but so were PS1's 3d fighting games and JRPGs. Back then it was better to have the PS1, because, although the number of amazing games was roughly the same, the number of pretty damn cool games was very much in PS1's favour. Today you either experience a lot of both platforms or are an ignoramus.

>>5821464
it's early 3d graphics, anon. not sure what you were expecting.

>>5821451
>melee baby chimes in
Go make a 6th gen thread in /vg/ and stay there.

>>5821465
Tomb Raider and Soul Reaver aren't really "Playstation" games, though they are best known on the platform.

>>5821470
They came out on PS1 first and both had definitive versions there.

>>5821467

>>5821456
>Sure, if you ignore that OoT literally invented the lock on system used in countless successive 3d action games.
That's some
>Nintendo invented platformers
tier statement you got there, buddy. The Z targetting was just another stone in the wall, developers were using different kinds of targetting systems both before and after it.

>>5821457
This desu but N64 still pisses me off because the games were more expensive, especially the shitty ones. Shitty Playstation games launched at $20, shitty N64 games launched at $50 CBS it was all Nintendo's fault for sticking to cartridges that cost way more to produce

>>5821456
Lock-on basically already existed in 3D fighting games e.g. Bushido Blade, it just confined you to one target. Migrating the mechanic to the action-adventure genre and allowing the player to switch between targets just seems obvious.

>>5821476
He's right though, Ocarina's lock-on was wildly influential. Nothing truly successful is ever the first of its kind in history, but Ocarina was the first game to do lock-on in that fashion and do it so well. It's the game most designers learned how to do it properly from.

>>5821465
I agree, but i think the style of games and gameplay is the reason people either play one or the other. Its been talked about a lot, but nintendo has always been more family friendly on every generation. Some people are just not into the cutesy shit nintendo makes, thats why nintoddler is a thing, because the legit think majoras mask is scary and not just a kindergarteners version of resident evil 1 and they ripped off the whole meteor thing from final fantasy 7.

>>5821475
yes, that also looks primitive compared to today's graphics. what's your point?

>lock-on
https://armoredcore.fandom.com/wiki/Fire_Control_System

>>5821478
Why the fuck do you care so much about that stuff, gramps? You aren't a babagge employee anymore, you don't need to advice clueless parents that CDs are less expensive to manufacture (and less durable) and carts.

>>5821491
Yeah, lock-on is a different thing, Ocarina's Z-target is a completely different thing, more complex.
Games like Devil May Cry or Demon's Souls utilized OOT's z-target system, not "lock on".

>>5821347
Yeah.

>>5821348
>it had nothing like [pure shit]
Well that's good.

>>5821485
You posted a game from 1999 that looks like shit so I posted a game from 1996 that looks good. If that's your best defense for the PS1 then you've proved it really was the console for retards. Here's what 1999 should look like anyways.

>>5821492
Because it was a shitty thing to do, Anon. People should think about that.

>>5821492
You think Z targeting is more complex than armored core targeting?

>>5821497
Silly sony fanboy.
Even if you prefer PS1, calling OOT "pure shit" outs you as a mindless sony shill.

unga bunga n64 bad

Ocarina of Time may have had a single somewhat influential mechanic. It's still not a great game.

>>5821492
Because it was a shitty thing to do, Anon. People should think about that.

>>5821496
You think Z targeting is more complex than armored core targeting?

>>5821491
Armored Core had nothing like Ocarina's lock-on system. What you linked to is a homing missile lock-on and a type of a shooting reticle. Have you even played OoT? Or, say, DMC for that matter?

>>5821501
>Because it was a shitty thing to do, Anon. People should think about that.
What's a shitty thing to do? Making carts instead of CDs? In retrospective, I'm very glad Nintendo went with carts, more durable, no loading times. Oh yeah, no FMVs, I can live with that (and even then, there's stuff like RE2 which have the FMVs)
Anyway, point is, you aren't a babagge employee anymore, stop with that stupid bullshit everytime you discuss N64. We aren't parents shopping for our kids.

>>5821507
Cartridges suck.

>>5821505
>You think Z targeting is more complex than armored core targeting?
It's incomparably more complex. It's a system of camera movement on top of a control mechanic. Controls realign to face the enemy and the camera moves slightly to the side and zooms out (or sometimes in) to show you and your target without confusing you. It's a system that's complex to balance even when you know how it's done, and building the thing from scratch for the first time was a fucking adventure for Nintendo's designers.

>>5821451
Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time also do things that are far more difficult to execute than games in more heavily populated genres. How many studios do you think could pull off dungeons full of meticulously designed environmental puzzles that combine perfectly with item progression? You can make something far easier to do, like an Uncharted or an Assassin's Creed and sell even more copies in the process; or you can attempt and likely fail making something that, even if done competently, will almost definitely sell less.

>>5821513
>cartridges suck. -Babbages Gramps
You're a disgrace to this board and I regret giving you that nickname.

>>5821482
As good as oot is, it also peaked there. No other zelda game tops oot, but zelda loses for good in 6th gen. Ico and sotc will always be better than any zelda game. Nintendo tried to add a more mature theme in tp, but that just couldnt touch the atmosphere and attention to detail. So cherish oot for what you can.

>>5821523
>Ico and sotc will always be better than any zelda game
And also very different kind of games. Apples and oranges.
Wind Waker was pretty nice though, although I agree 3D Zelda peaked with OOT and MM.
In 6th gen, Okami was the best Zelda-like.

>>5821513
Also, I suck cocks

>>5821513
fake gramps
>>5821528
real gramps

>>5821519
Uncharted and Assassin's Creed are designed to feel like realistic "movie games" so they aren't going to have that kind of artificial progression. And the puzzles in OoT aren't nearly as complex as you seem to imply; most of the dungeons are pretty damn linear, with possibly the exception of the Water Temple, which is more cumbersome than challenging. Not sure what your point is.

>>5821504
>>Ocarina of Time may have had a single somewhat influential mechanic. It's still not a great game.
It's one of the greatest of all time.
>>5821513
No no no, you suck.

>>5821525
Ill give you ico being different enough, but
A lone protag saves a princess by traveling around and fighting monsters for their power and they ride a horse, use a sword and shoot a bow. The only difference is sotc removes all the npcs and extra items and still pulls off better puzzles, story and atmosphere.

>>5821523
BotW is by far the best Zelda game and none of the others even come close. Sorry.

Imagine having the N64 living in your head rent free over 20 years later.

>>5821523
Twilight Princess & Wind Waker are both better than OoT but don't lower it in legendary status neither.

>>5821548
Wind Waker is awful though

>>5821523
>Ico and sotc will always be better than any zelda game.
Ico's one of the best games ever made, but it and Ocarina succeed in different ways. Ico's atmosphere and story are nearly unmatched by anything before and since, but its puzzles are far less elaborate and aren't as mechanically involved or satisfying as Ocarina of Time's. The Zelda series would have benefited dramatically if it were able to take on what Ico did so well, but there aren't many Ueda types in video games. Zelda's unfortunately directed by basic bitch nerds.

>>5821521
Cartridge games were a necessity until fifth gen when Nintendo literally was the ONLY console developer to stick to them just because Sony hurt their little feelings over the SNES CD. It cost them SO many 3rd parties and people like you are STILL trying to justify it. That's straight up bullshit.

>>5821554
Nintendo stuck with cartridges because they forced developers to focus on gameplay rather than FMVs and other stuff that we now know for a fact to have been an evolutionary dead end. They did the same thing on GameCube with their tiny DVDs. It was a design decision aimed at policing the platform towards their standards of game design. Financially, Nintendo miscalculated, but aesthetically they were 100% spot-fucking-on.

>>5821498
the ps1 had 1994 hardware, it was never going to be capable of running a game that looks like shenmue. pretty obvious that you're a zoomer.

>>5821545
Botw hitched on the openworld bandwagon a bit too late, it just felt like zelda skyrim. Id rather play skyrim then botw and i cant stand playing skyrim anymore.

>>5821479
No one's responded to this point about OoT basically cribbing its lock-on system from 3D fighting games. It's apparently the only thing OoT has going for it, so it needs to be defended vehemently, right?

>>5821554
>Sony hurt their little feelings over the SNES CD
Wasn't it the other way around? Nintendo hurt Sony's fee-fee's by siding with Phillips.
Anyway, in the end, carts are better. No loading times and more durable, end of discussion.

>>5821562
BotW has way more reactivity than Skyrim and most other open world games. But this is /vr/, so I guess we shouldn't get caught on this point.

>>5821563
OoT's z-targeting is not dissimilar to what happens in 3d fighting games, but it focuses on the player character and needs to be able to turn on and off at the press of a button, which is a completely different matter.
Bushido Blade was cool and all, but you did not navigate dungeons and solve puzzles in it, and most fighting games had no exploration at all. Z-targeting also allows to fight more than one enemy, which 3d fighting game camera is not designed to do at all.
Look, we're have a very silly argument here. Let's not.

>>5821558
>Nintendo stuck with cartridges because they forced developers to focus on gameplay rather than FMVs
no, nintendo stuck with cartridges so they could keep charging a $19 nintendo tax on each one and controlling the means of production. only nintensharts truly believe otherwise.

>>5821567
if carts are so much better than why does no one use them any more

>>5821558
You're engaged in cognitive dissonance. GameCube discs are tiny so the console could be "cute", an actually debatable Nintendo mainstay.. The cartridges though - literally indefensible.

>>5821575
because companies are cheap, anon.
buy the games digitally, you goy!

>>5821567
>Nintendo hurt Sony's fee-fee's by siding with Phillips.
Sony basically asked for too much royalties and rights tot he games. Nintendo refused and went to Philips, which didn't work out too well. Sony scratched its head and thre a bazillion at the unfinished project to see where that'd take them, and won two generations in a row until the goddamn Wii steamrolled everyone.

>>5821576
>The cartridges though - literally indefensible.
I'll defend lack of loading times, gramps. I know you're old and you enjoy long loading times so you can clean your dried up shit in between levels, but I prefer quick loads.

>>5821572
The whole point was that OoT's targeting system was something completely new and developed from scratch. I've simply explained how it builds upon an already existing mechanic. You only think this argument is silly because it undermines yours.

>>5821574
As I said, they did the same thing on the GameCube and for the same very reason: to force developers to focus on gameplay.

>5th gen console war thread with gramps
this is fucking sad

>>5821538
Why are you conflating complexity and nonlinearity? I didn't saying anything about Zelda games being nonlinear. They're able to pull off dungeons that are so meticulously well designed that no other series aside from Metroid has ever even approached what they've done, and you're like, yeah, but you're mostly meant to approach them in a predefined manner.

Yeah, Stalker is a good movie, but it isn't as atmospheric as you're making it out to be; it has almost no special effects.

>>5821584
gameplay had nothing to do with it. it was all pure corporate greed. even the minidiscs came with higher royalty fees, though the disparity wasn't nearly as wide as it was with the cartridges.

I think we can all agree that the "retro" cutoff should be 1994, not 1999, so we wouldn't have to see these awful threads.

>>5821583
Nothing is ever completely new and unprecedented. The truly influential "first-evers" always have numerous unsuccessful predecessors. OoT's z-targeting is akin to iPhone's touch-screen: there were touch screens before it, including multi-touch ones, but it's iPhone that everyone are aping to this day, not the weird tablets that predate it and indeed did pave the road for the teach. Same with z-targeting: there were antecedents, but modern games take z-targeting straight from Ocarina and not those antecedents.

>>5821593
Agreed, but whatever, too late now. At least we're free of 6th gen console wars, that'd be the final nail in /vr/'s coffin.

>>5821567
>Nintendo hurt Sony's fee-fee's by siding with Phillips.
You're the kind of person who can easily be emotionally manipulated. Phillips was clearly a rebound relationship that Nintendo rushed into. The results speak for themselves.

No. The breakup was over Nintendo's "seal of approval" and insistence that they deserved license fees for every game on their console, which there wasnt going to be room for. Sony actually intended to provide valuable service pressing the discs with their existing production facilities, which they of course went on to do with extreme effectiveness.

>>5821551
You're awful
>>5821563
OoT had a large 3d open world in the zelda series on N64. It had 8 dungeons and several side quests. It had a great ascetic for the time and era. It set the standard for many games to come and is heralded as one of the greatest games of all time.

>>5821586
I just don't see what's so special about the dungeons. All the designers have to do is wall off certain areas until you have a certain item that lets you progress. This isn't anything mind-blowing.

>>5821589
Doesn't matter what the intention was--not that you know any more than any of us--the result is that we now have a 5th generation cartridge console, so you should get down on your knees and suck that greedy Jap dick.

>>5821605
Yeah, that'd be very unimpressive if it was actually like you describe.

>>5821582
A PS1 in good repair has minimal loading times. It wasn't Neo Geo CD. Even is I were to lay off of the HUGE AND IMPORTANT issue of production cost, just the space for content is worth a few seconds of loading time.

>>5821553
The games are very basic but thats how it started. Nintendo made donkey kong and mario bros. In their early ventures into videogames they were really forward thinking. Zelda, starfox, smb, dk 94. At the time these games were ahead of other consoles. Even smrpg is good, while basic it added the block and multi attack timing system that i dont think was ever done before. Dk 94 is a fucking masterpiece and then theres oot, sm64 and smash. That was the peak of nintendo, in terms of innovative gameplay. They used to treat their ips different than the weird gimmick consoles they would push, now their ips are gimmicks. They may be good. But its really just a fresh coat of paint on the same game. And they have to keep making the next mario and the next zelda, and they have to be family friendly, they cant deviate from the formula.

>>5821571
Eh, its ok.

>>5821575
The switch and 3ds do. Cds are obsolete, sd based carts/cards are where we are heading.

>>5821598
>You're the kind of person who can easily be emotionally manipulated
Funny, since I manipulated you into using your nickname and being /vr/'s official lolcow.
>Phillips was clearly a rebound relationship that Nintendo rushed into. The results speak for themselves.
I thought Nintendo went to Phillips without even telling Sony. Sony were still thinking that SNES CD was happening, until Nintendo announced the Phillips thing at E3.
>The breakup was over Nintendo's "seal of approval" and insistence that they deserved license fees for every game on their console, which there wasnt going to be room for. Sony actually intended to provide valuable service pressing the discs with their existing production facilities
I also have a different version of this, it was Sony who demanded 100% royalties for all CD games. As for "provide valuable service pressing the discs", this just means Sony was taking advantage of owning the CD factories, which was another big advantage they had over pretty much any other video game company, like Sega.
What happened gramps? You were always a little stupid, but at least I remember you were more of a Sega fan. You turned into a sonygger now?

>>5821614
>in good repair
Just shut up.

>>5821594
Honestly, I think OoT is just another one of those antecedents. That mechanic is pretty much all the game had going for it. It isn't anywhere near as playable today as the previously mentioned games it influenced like Devil May Cry and Demon's Souls.

>>5821632
I like Demons Souls way more than OoT, but even then, OoT has things going for it, such as being a finished product, having nicer looking graphics, better music, and more engaging story.

>>5821605
And you've actually played the games? Have you happened to play anything similar and noticed how they're so basic by comparison that they look like a joke? Portal was shocking when it came out because its level design was so far beyond what almost every other game was doing, and that was like 30 minutes to an hour long with a single copy-pasted white tile theme throughout despite being backed by Valve. You can count the games that can even bear comparison to the best 3D Zelda games on one hand. Maybe you're one of those guys who thinks that an open world slapped-together shitshow like Skyrim does what Zelda attempts, only even better, because in both games your character walks around big fields with a sword.

>>5821593
yeah, we need more snes vs genesis threads

>A PS1 in good repair has minimal loading times.

>>5821594
That so many people praise the virtues of Z-targeting is a joke. Ocarina of Time is a masterpiece, but that mechanic was and is a compensation for a flawed camera and a compromise to inept players. Influential isn't the same as good. Just look at 90% of modern games.

>>5821658
Minimal compared to what? A diabetic has minimal health concerns compared to a Russian helicopter pilot flying recon over Chernobyl.in 1986.

>>5821641
Maybe other developers didn't bother with that type of level design because it's so contrived and artificial without even offering any kind of challenge. At least Portal had an extremely tiny degree of challenge in its puzzles lol.

>>5821641
>>5821670
Oh and Portal actually has a narrative reason for its puzzles being designed the way they are, while OoT's dungeons are just these weird Rube Goldberg machines that somehow spontaneously popped into existence.

>>5821641
>open world slapped-together shitshow like Skyrim does what Zelda attempts, only even better, because in both games your character walks around big fields with a sword.

You can shit on the bugginess of bethesda games, but to say they are just slapped together is retarded. Minus oblivion, every mainline elder scrolls game reached a landmark in gaming. Arenas map is 6 million miles long using procedural generation, daggerfalls character creation and roleplaying ability was and still is one of the best ever and the world is still one of the largest maps in gaming, morrowinds hand crafted world and deep story had never been done like that and skyrim has had more editions, ports, etc... In such a short time than any other game in history.

>>5821347
Worse first party games, but it got a fuck ton of good 3rd party games because Nintendo were dumb enough to use cartridges.

>>5821685
>but to say they are just slapped together is retarded. Minus oblivion, every mainline elder scrolls game reached a landmark in gaming.
So I guessed right; you're a Bethesda tard. I can without even trying shit on every aspect of the Elder Scrolls games because they're uniformly awful. Do you have a medieval battle axe on your wall? So many larping nerds without a PC just used the Zelda games as a stand-in for what their little 10-sided-dice-shaped hearts truly desired: ugly, tedious, barely functioning, glorified check lists dressed up in a poorly animated wizard's hat and robe.

>>5821714
Different anon here, I don't like Elder Scrolls games either, but at least they're trying to create an immersive adventure in a believable, living world, which should be the goal of an open-ended action-adventure game. Zelda games before BotW are extremely static and artificial (though of course BotW is infinitely better than any Bethesda game lol)

>>5821641
>>Portal was shocking when it came out because its level design was so far beyond what almost every other game was doing,
Portal was critically acclaimed for its writing and story...
>>Maybe you're one of those guys who thinks that an open world slapped-together shitshow like Skyrim does what Zelda attempts, only even better, because in both games your character walks around big fields with a sword.
Wtf.
>>5821664
Dude wtf.
>>5821679
>>OoT's dungeons are just these weird Rube Goldberg machines that somehow spontaneously popped into existence.
Oh wow.
>>5821714
>>I can without even trying shit on every aspect of the Elder Scrolls games because they're uniformly awful.
No you really can't, because you're very not smart.
>>Do you have a medieval battle axe on your wall? So many larping nerds without a PC just used the Zelda games as a stand-in for what their little 10-sided-dice-shaped hearts truly desired: ugly, tedious, barely functioning, glorified check lists dressed up in a poorly animated wizard's hat and robe.
lol, dude whatever

>>5821714
Wtf are you even talking about. Zelda is a game for children and youre having a temper tantrum, nintoddler. The puzzles are made for children to solve, the gameplay has to be easy enough for children to play and the story has to be child friendly. The depth of lore and role playing, world building in elder scrolls games are far deeper than zelda games. Zelda games are light hearted hero saves the princess stories.

>>5821779
portal was fun because of the puzzles with the portal gun, the funny writing/voice acting was just gravy

but portal isn't retro so w/e

>>5821815
video games in general are for children and kidults. let's not pretend there's anything mature about this hobby

>>5821815
>nintoddler.
>The depth of lore and role playing, world building in elder scrolls games
hahaha

>>5821820
No, thats demonstrably false. Many games are made for adults. Most older pc strategy games were aimed specifically at adults

>>5821824
Compared to zelda, yeah.

Gate Keeping

>>5821779
>Portal was critically acclaimed for its writing and story...
We're changing the subject to writing and spastic critics who probably had to crowdsource with their spastic critic friends to get past the first level now? I thought we were talking about level design.
>Wtf.
>Dude wtf.
>Oh wow.
>lol, dude whatever
Oh shit, you're simple, I'm sorry. Yeah, Skyrim's awesome dude. You can kill a orc n dragon n shit. K later dude

>>5821842
well i'm not as simple as the puzzles in ocarina of time haha

>>5821502
OOT is pure shit, probably the most "Reddit" game released before 2000

Zelda fans are fucking weird it's not even an RPG how do you stay interested in that trash? Serious question

>>5821842
I'm talking about whatever the fuck I want biotch.

>>5821842
>Yeah, Skyrim's awesome dude. You can kill a orc n dragon n shit.

Change a few of the words and this is a great description of OOT as well as Skyrim. I'm glad you've connected the similar problems both games fundamentally have.

>>5821996
Yeah man, I get so bored playing Zelda 'cause I can't even grind to get XP to level up my character and magic abilities. And the lore isn't even that good.

>>5822028
Agree. You only need to switch the word "masterpiece" with "piece of shit" and you've gone from accurately describing Ocarina of Time to Skyrim. Practically the same game.

The PS1s alternative platformers like Skullmonkeys, Heart of Darkness, Klonoa, and Tomba were all better than the N64 Rare titles

>>5821626
>We want you to produce an add-on for our console and also produce the games for that console
M'k
>Oh, and we're going to need you to pay us a license fee for every single one of those games you produce
No
>Then we'll run to someone we erroneously believe to be your rival and produce laughable, embarrassing content to be ridiculed forever
Then Sony went on to do what they always intended to do entirely on their own and crushed the market with real mature business practices.

I have preferred Sega over Nintendo ever since I stopped being a child, that's true - which was at the beginning of the fourth gen. Both of them had embarrassing childish egotistical business practices in the 90s though, just different flavors. The gaming world would be better off if they had both just focused on gracefully transitioning into subsidiaries of Sony and Microsoft respectively, heading hardware R&D, being the first party studios and preserving their valuable brands front and center on the consoles but they just couldn't

And I don't think you understand emotional manipulation.

>>5821624
Actually, cart based systems are pretty much going the way of the dodo because digital download is the way of the future.
Once it's stored on the Hard drive, then it's good to go. And in a way, you can call that cartridge based, but it's not being sold or marketed that way.
But look at Steam, GoG, Origin, PS4, Xbox One, and even the Nintendo E-Shop. It's much easier for them to keep a handle on things if you download it, and it's convenient. No need to pay for materials when you can make the game completely digital and the company gets to rake in all the extra cash saved from lack of physical media.

>>5822328
Flash is really not at all the same as cartridges were. It's simply the new media, superior to optical media and naturally replacing it - the same way optical media replaced ROMs in the fifth gen (except for Nintendo)

One thing I CAN say about Nintendo's dogged loyalty to ROM though is that optical media was not suited to portable consoles which turned out to a real element in allowing Nintendo to maintain dominance in and successfully pivot completely to them which is really all that saved them in a similar way that arcades didn't really save Sega.

>>5821996
>OOT is pure shit, probably the most "Reddit" game released before 2000
classic wrpgs (such as planescape torment) were way more reddit than zelda, it's not even close. and i say that as someone who generally dislikes 3d zelda.

Sony didn't make good games back then so I guess nothing's changed. I've always been impressed they've been so successful with zero good exclusives

>>5822343
Please explain to me how Flash is different from Cart media. (Perhaps I'm missing something here, and you mean something other than 3DS/Switch media when you say Flash)
From my understanding, the 3DS/Switch cartridges are built similar to SD cards, which is actually just a different take on the way USB works. Still uses the same method of data delivery, just faster.
The cartridges from earlier generations had many pins, certainly, but as for delivery of 1's and 0's, it's the same concept, just spread out on a rather inferior connector.

To my knowledge, all we did was streamline the design and make a better process for transfer of data while adding more storage.

But a 3DS cart only has 5 plates to connect to, and a max storage of 8GB.
A Switch cart has a similar setup, although I'm not certain if each of the 3 plates per channel cut in the back of the cartridge is considered it's own or if they're all considered 1, so it's either 5 or 16. And that's cool, and all, but it's just another form or removable cartridge media. Also a max storage of 32GB (Eventually to be 64). Better in every way than the 3DS carts, and any of the previous cartridge based systems.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to know the difference.

Digital download is still the optimal way, though. No limit on size, once you have it, it's on your gaming apparatus of choice. Only limit is your storage option, and that's easily expandable. And for speed, SSD is the standard now and it's getting faster.

>>5822381
Small addendum
I realize some of the pins are just power/ground connectors, I get certain ones are data transfer, I don't know which pins/plates do what exactly, but I do understand that.
I also understand the same goes for the old cartridges from 2nd through 4th gen into 5th with N64. Again, I don't know which pins do what exactly, but I understand the fundamental idea.

I'm just looking for what really sets it apart.

>>5822346
Gonna have to disagree with you there, anon.
I like both games a decent amount, but PS:T requires a real attention span to get into. Lots of reading and numbers to keep in mind as well. Comparing it to Zelda is like comparing apples to oranges. Even if you memorized the entire damage calculation of Zelda, which is pretty basic, mind you, it's still nowhere near as complex and there isn't very much that the two have in common.
And even then, while I'm not a big fan of 3D zelda, it's not the worst game. It's not a very good one, but it's not that bad, either.

>>5822346
yeah zelda games (esp. since oot) are actually tumblr af. lol

and the most 4chan retro game of all time is, of course, battletoads

>>5822140
This. So much this. All n64 collectathons are bland and boring (ill give conkur a pass).

>>5822384
>>5822381
In older systems a rom is literally a rom for the system. It is plugged directly into the addressable memory space of the cpu. Theres no file transfer or loading. Everything in that 64k (or whattever particular for that architecture) is immediately available, that's why memory mappers are a thing, the cpu can only see 64k of rom space, but you got 1 megabyte on your cart, so you need to move that 64k window around.

On ds etc memory, it's just file storage, the system has enough ram it can load everything off the flash memory like it's long term storage just like a pc.

>>5822421
Correct me if I'm wrong here, even with Flash memory, it's still read only. Outside of save systems, which ROMs also had.

I get what you're saying for the way it's loaded, but it's still a cartridge based form of removable media.
It's the same idea, just carried out a different way. All it does is run it from a bigger buffer.

>>5822328
Even our phones have sd card slots, same with the switch. You seem to have a disconnect as to why we use removeable storage. I dont see it changing anytime soon. The sd card will replace the consumer hdd in a few years.

>>5822439
It already kind of did. SSD is the current standard for storage media.
Except it's not really removable, but you get my point.

>>5821347
It had lots of shovelware, and after all the dust settled, there was a similar amount of worthwhile games on both platforms.

>>5822439
>The sd card will replace the consumer hdd in a few years.
For the average consumer who enjoys volatile memory and data loss sure. The above average consumer will still continue to use proper hard drives and not flash media for storage of any and all important files.

>>5822426
It's pretty different. You start your program and build whatever you want in your ram space with memory management and a pretty advanced operating system. You would load movies and textures and most sprites from the memory, but it's not at all like an nes or genesis where the entire sprite is sitting there in rom from the instant you switch that bank in, and the video chip is just moving pointers around for what it's looking at. Also some carts actually had additional ram on them instead of rom

>>5822458
This is a better explanation than the previous one I got. No harm meant to the other anon, but his is about hardware itself which, while physically different is conceptually the same.

I see what you mean, anon. Thanks.

The PS1 was a console for poor people, you have more poor people than rich people, hence it was overall more popular.

Sony consoles should be banned here.

>>5822448
>For the average consumer who enjoys volatile memory and data loss sure.
Thanks for reiterating my point, thats why i said consumer and most consumers wont know or care about the difference.

>>5822482
>>5822479

>>5822479
Nike shoes are expensive as fuck, but poor people seem to love buying them.

>>5822398
It's Crash Bandicoot or some WCW wrestling game.

>>5821996
>Reddit as an adjective the describe games I don't like
Holy Jesus

>>5822312
>The gaming world would be better off if they had both just focused on gracefully transitioning into subsidiaries of Sony and Microsoft respectively
The things one has to read.
>And I don't think you understand emotional manipulation.
You mean like manipulating an underage girl, for example? Oh wait, that never happened anyway, your whole life is a big LARP.

N64 was superior for 3D polygonal games.
Saturn was superior for 2D sprite games.
PSX was only good if you were a poorfag in the '90s and that was all you could afford getting.

>>5821347
I don't agree. Now what are you gonna do about it?

>>5822672
I had both and I had more fun with Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Parasite, Eve Tomb Raider, Crash and Spyro than with Zelda and Mario.

I hope one day you can write your digital games to cartridges for physical keepsakes. Throw in 3d printing the box and manuals and that would be a win for consumers.

Can we stop having 5th gen console war threads already? All of that generation are good for different games, none of them is without worthwhile software, and honestly the things are cheap enough and easy enough to get at this point (unless you want legit us saturn disks) that it no longer matters to pick fights and debate over which system wins. Just get the ones you want to play and quit pretending that you're still a kid on the playground who's so desperate for an identity that you would associate yourself with a fucking corporate product as a key point of your personality.

>>5822448
>similar amount of worthwhile titles
Lol. Always see this being said, dunno how anyone could be that delusional. N64 has like 30 games worth playing, meanwhile PS1 has that amount in RPGs alone

>>5821563
OoT deserves *some* credit for so successfully hodgepodging ideas that were touched upon across a multitude of different genres and putting them together in one pot in such an organic way. It didn't hardly "invent" shit, but there's legitimate merit in how successfully it manages to improve on so many different ideas and put them in one game and still have it feel so natural in execution.

>>5822653
Powerful corporations and people are simply going to have what they want. The wise get what they want out of the process.

>>5822746
Yeah, it's too bad we never got a Sega Saturn with a high rate failure disc drive (that, by the way, needs "repair" in order to have better load times, lol), or a N64 that would get a Red Ring of Death. Truly that would have been amazing!

>>5822745
We gamers know this for a fact

>>5822750
We wouldn't have had to wait twenty years for Shenmue 3. There wouldn't be fifty arcade exclusive Sega games. There wouldn't have been a PSP or Vita and for that matter if Sega had brought their hardware experience to R&D, Xboxes probably would have been more reliable. RingEdge certainly doesn't break down.

>>5822729
Nice post a list of worthwhile PS1 games or GTFO with the bad LARP

>>5822770
Shenmue III? The fuck is that? If Sega got bought out by MS or Sony, there'd be only games that make PROFIT, friend, like Football Manager, more Football Manager!
>arcades
Arcades? You mean Sony or Microsoft would care for something so niche? More football manager!

>>5822771
I don’t understand why that’s so unbelievable to you. PS1 had over 70 RPGs released in NA. Look up a list, you probably know most of them

>>5822783
Not him but what makes you think that all of those 70 RPGs are worthwhile?

>>5822782
>Football Manager
>Football Manager
>Football Manager
Yeah I don't even know what that is

>>5822904
It's one of Sega's most profitable IPs

>>5822907
No, I don't think so. Maybe you have Euros confused with real money. It seems to happen a lot on /vr/ these days.

>>5822917
Whatever you say, gramps.
Anyway this thread was really awful
>carts suck!
>sega and nintendo should have been bought by sony and ms!
This is some australia-kun level shitposting.

>>5821347
PS1 actually had 2d fighting games and jrpgs so it was the better console

>>5821996
You lost me at most reddit.


When did this board become a pile of shit ?
Just appreciate two great consoles. And OOT is a masterpiece even though i dont like Nintendo at all. But you cant deny that other than you are shitposting.

>>5822939
>PS1 actually had 2d fighting games
Yeah, with severely cut frame data. Play them on Saturn instead.

>>5822949
Please call me guys
>+52 55 8244 9021

>>5822949
Please call me guys
>+52 55 8244 9021>>5822956

>>5822920
Sega is literally defunct as a hardware manufacturer. Surely you wouldn't prefer that to them heading the Xbox division of Microsoft.

>>5822789
I didn’t say that all 70 were

>>5823139
yeah because all 70 are actually bad becuase jrpgs suck