/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5806060
It's 5" or less and probably black and white. Now try to make slot mask or aperture grill on 20" screen.

>>5806060
>>5806068
Ikegami still sells pro grade crts but they cost $11k new
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/632863-REG/Ikegami_HTM1990R_HTM_1990_R_19_HDTV_SDTV_Multi_Format.html?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh_np7rb_4wIVwf_jBx2fNgl6EAQYASABEgIMevD_BwE&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=y

>>5806060
Anyone who says that is an idiot.
CRTs are one of the most mature technologies in existence, made for decades in a dozen countries by dozens of manufacturers.
>>5806068
>hire engineers
>they study public documentation about CRT manufacturing processes, including mask designs
>buy necessary equipment
>build factory
>start making CRTs again

>>5806119
They're just offloading old shit. They're not making those anymore.
>>5806175
OP is just a baiting retard. Of course it's technically possible to produce CRTs. No one is ever going to produce something like a PVM again though.

>>5806068
>It's 5" or less
So even better than an 8" PVM?

>>5806203
This is true. Many companies are still making CRTs but Ikegami has stopped.

>>5806203
Some people actually want companies to make CRTs again since many gamers want to have true color and no input lag due to extra features that many LCDs and OLED have. I guarantee you that there's a market for CRT still. Just make sure that CRTs have all the modern connections that is necessary or modern gaming.

But,with modern tech today being all digital, I doubt people are going to invest in Analog tech in this day and age.

>>5806060
Just use OLED. It even has burn-in like a CRT, you'll like it.

>>5806572
I wish there was an IQ test instead of the captcha. Of course there is a market. It's just way too fucking small.

Why does it matter? Why are there people so fixated on only owning brand new things? It's not like nobody at the factory had jizz on their hands when they crated it - or it didn't get shipped in the same truck with diseased horseflies or something. Ain't nothing completely clean in this world.

>>5806060
I thought it was illegal to manufacture CRTs throughout the US and Europe.

>>5806678
Well it's not

There's fewer and fewer reasons to need a CRT anymore. We're getting perfect replica's of hardware that do native digital output to modern displays. Plenty of ways to mod or adapt existing consoles to output to HDMI. It's one thing if you find a deal on craigslist for 15$ for a good late-model crt, but going out of your way to get a PVM is just retarded at this point.

The reason no one is making new CRTs for retro gamers is because they would cost thousands of dollars when you can get used ones for free if you look hard enough

>>5806678
US they'd still be legal. Euro would need significant changes to remove all the lead (not just to make them, just importing them is illegal now)

>>5806634
Why the fuck do people buy "organic" screens? They all shit themselves in 5 years or less.

>>5806817
My phone from 2012 has almost no burn in and works fine

>>5806817
Because they're not below the poverty line and prefer to watch something decent instead of literal shit.

>>5806870
Non-organic LED screens are just as good and don't have that risk. Why spend in something repeatedely when you can only invest in once in a while? Maybe that's why the 1% is the 1% though.

>>5806838
What's your phone anon?

>>5806924
>Non-organic LED screens are just as good
Maybe, maybe not. It would be easier to tell if you could actually buy one.

>>5806924
>What's your phone anon?
Razr i

>PVMemes

>>5806924
>Non-organic LED screens are just as good
LOL get a load of this guy

>>5806957
Not in phones but I believe TVs are still being made.

>>5807023
I have both a LED and an AMOLED TV and there's virtually no difference.

>>5807035
>I have both a LED and an AMOLED TV and there's virtually no difference
You're either lying or practically blind... Or maybe stupid?

>>5806979
It's insane that you made a Motorola phone last 7 years.

>>5807035
You have an LCD screen with an LED backlight. You're either blind or a LARPing faggot.

>>5807041
It even runs android 9 pretty well, thanks to xda

There are some new shitty CRTs being made still in China and India, but Ikegami definitely aren't because there are no CRT production lines left operating in Japan and Ikegami have always been very conscienscious about using 100% Japanese parts in their products, so they almost certainly would not get anything from China or whatever.

>>5807092
It would be nice if this meme stopped. There are no indications that new tubes are being made for consumer TVs. Yes, there are "new" TVs being sold. That's not the same thing.

>>5806060
nobody gives a shit about a pvm

>>5807108
>It would be nice if this meme stopped. There are no indications that new tubes are being made for consumer TVs.
We established that above. Ikegami are just selling NOS and they almost certainly couldn't be using new tubes because there's no production lines left in Japan.

>>5807114
Sorry, forgot to specify that I was referring to the chinese TVs. It just wouldn't make sense financially to make new bargain bin CRT TVs unless you at least had the tubes lying around already.

The actual evidence is thin but I'm strongly inclined to believe that the demand diminished so much more rapidly than the supply that there's simply no profit to be made in manufacturing consumer crts. That's all there probably is to it.

>>5807156
I don't know why you would think otherwise. But then again, you are a massive fucking faggot.

>>5806817
Because in 5 years time, even better tech comes out.
I had a viera plasma for 5 years and upgraded to an OLED. The plasma still works fine and has minimal burn-in from a TV logo in the bottom right corner that you can't notice except on a pure white screen.

My OLED has zero burn in 2 years later, and in another 2 years there will be even better display tech.

I don't want CRT. I have a PVM, and the colors are WORSE than my OLED, and it's the fault of the tech of the time. You can't get blacks on a CRT. You get the glass color, which is dark grey.

I want CRT phosphor emulation on a high res 4k or 8k OLED.

>>5807168
All blacks are dark gray unless you're in darkness

>>5807168
>You can't get blacks on a CRT. You get the glass color, which is dark grey.
Yeah, when you have light reflecting off the screen... but why would you?

>>5807195
I get what he's saying I'm just giving him shit. Black on CRTs really is higher than black on OLED or Plasma but the color intensity is also highest on CRT and our eyes/brains have white balance.

"Deep blacks" is about the difference between white and black, not about how much of your ambient light reflects off the things when they're turned off.

>>5807108
New tubes are being made for other reasons, and if there is enough demand they can be put into consumer products. Sorry, your hoarding isn't a goldmine after all.

>>5807220
>if there is enough demand they can be put into consumer products
Even if this was true, the demand will never EVER be high enough.

>>5807195
Yeah, it's not like an electron gun is exciting phosphors inside the tube, and light is being reflected inside.

Even in a pitch black room, the OLED gives deeper blacks and richer colors.

Also, I kind of like to SEE my controller occasionally.

>>5807247
Why will the demand not grow, as this hobby grows and 6th gen babbies who want CRTs too become collecting adults? Do you understand the population of earth is increasing? "demand will never EVER be high enough" is just what you want to believe, but it has no basis in reality.

>>5806702
FPGAs are emulators, no matter how bad Analogue wants you to think otherwise.

repeat after me

FPGAs

are

emulators

>>5807247
>even if this was true
go to tube manufacturer sites like thomaselectronics.com if you're really that clueless lol

>>5807268
Those guys make tubes for very specific applications such as scientific equipment, not consumer products, and this is viable because the market for scientific equipment is tiny and the profit margins huge.

>>5807262
It might grow. Just not enough for there to be a market for CRTs that cost several thousand dollars.
>>5807268
The military is a hell of a thing. The medical industry as well. Doesn't mean they can or will make tubes for your playthings.

>>5807270
Ok so you're agreeing new tubes are being made? Why are you trying so hard to change the conversation?
>>5807279
Why are you so sure the demand will grow but suddenly stop short at a certain point? Do you realize how illogical you're coming off, with no evidence to support your claims?

>>5807283
Tubes aren't just tubes, you literal retard. And you're the illogical one here. Why the fuck would demand rise infinitely? Where is your evidence for that retarded claim?
You should snatch up those NOS Ikegamis. They're going to be worth millions any day now!

>>5807298
The question is if CRT tubes are still being made. They are. I'm sorry, this is a fact. There's no need to get upset just because this fact doesn't match with what you wish to be true.

>>5807298
Demand has been rising all along. My evidence is that demand has continued to rise and hasn't stopped. You're now claiming that demand will suddenly stop at a certain point, even though the world's population is growing. Are you self aware at how stupid you're being?

>>5807312
If OP wasn't referring to RGB tubes for TVs or monitors the thread isn't /vr/-related. Please do go ahead and report it if you think that's the case, kiddo.
>>5807315
Remind me.. was that before or after demand almost went to 0? You know, right around when pro monitors cost several thousand dollars and no sane person would buy them for video games.

>>5807263
No, they aren't.
They're programmable gate arrays.

Assuming you had a logic map of the SNES's various processors and their timings, you could faithfully and perfectly reproduce one on an FPGA. It wouldn't be emulation. It's a logic clone.

Emulation takes instructions from software and re-compiles or interprets them for the host system.

FPGA clones the logical structure of the host system, at the lowest levels.

>>5807357
And how is that different from a cycle accurate emulator?

>>5807363
Emulator is still re-interpreting software code, and modifying it, or changing calls to a "similar" one on the host system.
FPGA faithfully clones the original silicon and neither modifies nor interprets the software.

You seem to not know what a logic gate is, and what their relationship is to computing.

FPGA will always be more accurate, assuming all else is equal.

>>5806702
We still don't have proper motion. Things like ULMB have made it far better recently but there's still ghosting/coronas leftover and it'll take at least 240hz screens to fix that.
Then we still have shitty black levels and shitty contrast and shitty colours to fix.
Phosphor/slot mask shaders won't be possible till we have 8K screens too.
So yeah nah we have a long way to go. PVM's are a fucking joke though - agreed on that.

So why was the NES Mini just an emulation box? Couldn't Nintendo have used an FPGA instead and it would have been more accurate?

>>5807376
I don't think that's true. You can't make a cycle accurate emulator without having the same knowledge of the console as you would need to implement it in an FPGA.

>>5807343
The conversation topic is “do factories still have the ability to make CRT tubes so that one day consumer TVs for gaming will be sold?”
I don’t know why that’s so difficult for you to comprehend, but at this point I cant think of any other way to dumb it down for you. You seem to be attempting to change the subject anyways.

>>5807208
>"Deep blacks" is about the difference between white and black
No, that's about the independent film she starred in

>>5807407
Lower effort, lower cost, greater profit.

>>5807407
They were lazy and adopted the Famiclone "It only needs to be good enough to run basic bitch games like Balloon Fight" mentality.

>>5807525
Literally not true. And the answer to that question is no.

>>5807407
>>5807623
I don't get why you guys assume Nintendo cared that much about autists on nesdev who know every NES chipset revision as opposed to casual normies who just wanted a quick nostalgia fix.

>>5807651
Probably the same reason why people think new CRTs will ever be produced - mental retardation.

>>5807651
Perhaps so, but they could have at least made it somewhat user customizable and able to run more than the handful of games included. Nintendo are still running on an outdated 1990s business model and they have no apparent concept of the Internet.

>>5807663
Or that they might include some Famicom stuff instead of the usual boring US NES games we've already played.

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/nintendo-nes-classic-edition-review/

The game list is pretty pedestrian and other than StarTropics there's no RPGs.

>>5807565
Nah she thinks black dicks look like turds lol

>>5807676
Because they just wanted to give casuals a quick nostalgia fix and these people very likely didn't play LaGrange Point as kids.

>>5807676
No TMNT? I'm shocked they'd omit a game as massive and inescapable as that was.

>>5807692
Licensed game. They can't include any of those on there.

>>5807642
Are you ok? What’s not true?

>>5806119
i admit you got me with those reviews

>>5806572
HD CRTs have more lag than comparably priced LCD panels did at the time. The lag on a modern OLED or LCD is less than what CRTs were. This really isn’t disputable

>>5807676
I would drop all those arcade ports (Pac-Man, Mario Bros, Bubble Bobble, etc) since you can just play the original on MAME now--why would you want inferior console ports? Tecmo Bowl is more useful if you get ROM hacks with updated rosters, I'd drop that one as well. I would prefer Mega Man 1 over 2. Excitebike never impressed me much either.

>CV1 and 3 (2 is shit, we'll drop that one)
>First party Nintendo titles ofc
>Swap in DQ2 over FF1
>drop Tecmo Bowl
>maybe Ninja Gaiden?

Then how about 1-2 unlicensed shitty games like Cheetahmen for lulz, maybe 2-3 Famicom titles including at least one Japan-only RPG.

>>5807717
>Then how about 1-2 unlicensed shitty games like Cheetahmen for lulz
Why in the fuck would they do that anyway? Besides nobody even knows who owns the rights to Action 52 anymore.

>Manufacturing 100lbs of lead and radiation
Ya EU and CA laws have fucked any chance of that ever happening again, kiddos.

>>5807715
>I'm retarded
>This really isn’t disputable
No one is is gonna dispute that kiddo

Nintendo could have licensed a superior and more accurate emulator from third parties, the cost in time and money wouldn't have been any greater. The emulation the NES Classic had was merely adequate. Actually even the VC emulation was not particularly good.

>>5808119
It's a silly corporate pride thing. They would rather make a shitty in-house emulator than license a quality outside one.

>>5808195
Probably also people who actually care about accuracy are either playing on OG hardware or have their own emulation setup already

>>5808195
See what I said how they're still living in the 90s in terms of how they do business.

You know what's good about my eyesight getting worse with age? It means I no longer need to worry about being stupidly obsessive about image quality.
My right eye sees slightly more red than my left, for example, and the contrast differs between the two as well.
If you're over 30, the chances of you being like this in some way are high. If you wear glasses, you're already losing out even with optimum lenses.

>>5808393
Being like what? A neurotic anime shitposter with undiagnosed fibromyalgia?

>>5806657
For equipment with a finite service life, most people don't want to buy an example with 95% of that life already used.

>>5808393
My eyes are getting progressively worse and I'm only 25. It seems like when I get new glasses my eyes adjust and my vision becomes worse. I don't really care that much about video quality, a crt with composite is good enough.
>>5808412
Not even him but I think I have it. I'm in so much pain all the fucking time.

>>5808428
>It seems like when I get new glasses my eyes adjust and my vision becomes worse
This is why you should use glasses all the time. Only if you truly want to, not if you really don't need to.

>>5808412
>Being like what?
An asshole who's so worried about MUH VISUAL QUALITY that he spergs on about black levels and color accuracy, when chances are his eyes aren't working well enough to really give a shit.
Take HDR lighting/color. I've seen movies and other media on all sorts of mediums and screens, and while HDR does look good, after a while it just looks like everything else. I no longer care.
And this was before I needed glasses. It's not that big of a deal. HD wasn't that big of a deal. I'm playing through SM Galaxy 2 right now on my 20" trinitron and it looks as good as anything on my 4K monitor.
All this HDR/4K shit and other faggotry like that is used as a replacement for the fact that visual media producers, be it games or film, is not only out of good ideas for new shit, but have dumbasses hired to their rosters that do the producing and they fucking suck at it now because they never had to work and train on old systems/media and learn how to get the most out of their art.

HD/high-end computing/game engines/etc have made modern artists and designers lazy and talentless. So the media suppliers need to push MUH 4K/HDR to polish the turds they're shitting out for the masses to eat up like addicts. PVMs are sort of an extension of this in retro gaming.

>Being like what?
pic related

>>5808463
I've been wearing glasses every day since I was 6. My eyes are just fucked. It scares me

>>5808482
Probably too late in your case. You might try though, IF you can stand it.
Right now I have mine off. I can see well enough to read and type.

>>5808484
I can't see text more than a foot away from me without them. Gonna need surgery one day if I live long enough

>>5808463
>This is why you should use glasses all the time. Only if you truly want to, not if you really don't need to.
Did you mean to say you SHOULDN'T use glasses all the time?

>>5806817
lol i just got an old Panasonic plasma from 2006 for free and it still looks great. No burn in.

>>5808657
Yes.

>>5807156
>>5807164

yeayup

all enthusiasts will exist on the bare supply remaining : )

>>5807684
Gramps?

>>5809039

Fuck LCD, LED, and OLED.
RIP SED, FED and CRT

>>5807951

>can't refute arguments
>goes full ad hominem
exactly.

>>5808428
The pain is probably weed withdrawal. Easiest fix is more weed.
>>5808463
>Being like what?
>batshit rant and more anime shitposting
So, nailed it?

>>5807676
>Or that they might include some Famicom stuff instead of the usual boring US NES games we've already played.
It's a nostalgia grab. The whole POINT is to put in games that everyone has played. How autistic must you be to not understand this?

>>5810110
Never had weed at any point in my life.

>>5809901
>makes claim with no evidence
>bullshit gets called
>hurr durr you can't refute
Zoomer logic. Every fucking time.

>>5807715

LCDs and HD CRTs had about the same lag, but no LCDs had a bit more.

The processing being done in the back could be done a lot faster on a modern HD CRT, although it would be expensive because you'd have to convert a digital HDMI signal to analog (or you could get around that by introducing a new cord but LOOOOOOOL no).

>>5807041

My Droid Turbo also still works just fine.

>>5810710
signal conversion is super cheap now.