/vr/ - Retro Games

It was good, but there are newer games that are better.

>>5776396
Still fantastic games. Not perfect (there's some really shitty levels) but the gameplay loop, weapon design and enemy design are perfect.
This might sound like a crazy opinion, but I wish there were more games with biaxial aiming like DOOM. You can be so much more precise with aiming in frantic situations when you don't have to worry about the vertical movement of your mouse, and I feel that's part of why DOOM's gameplay loop is so good, and why you can have such complex encounters with dozens of monsters of different types (hundreds of monsters in some slaughterwads).
If you haven't played DOOM, OP, you absolutely should, unmodded (not that there aren't a plethora of interesting gameplay mods but the original experience is the best possible introduction to the game). 1 and 2 if nothing else, and if you like what you played there's always Final DOOM, DOOM64, and the literal hundreds of thousands of custom levels.

No it was total shit and you have figured it out. Now we have good games like Fortnite

yes

What would people be nostalgic for back when it released?

>>5776518
Board games with the family.

>>5776471
>enemy design
yes. the mix of flesh and machinery is great. i haven't played the new one but it doesn't seem to have got that right sadly. it could have been so cool if they had tried to understand the essence of doom

>>5776756
I was talking mainly on the game design of them, but you're right that the visual design is great too. Adrian Carmack is a talented motherfucker.

>>5776396
if u were around back then, it was amazing compared to the mario sonic crap everyone was used to

>>5776756
the new ones enemy design is pretty good actually its not as good as the classics of course but still solid on par with doom 3 which had decent enemies. i would recommend playing it though before eternal comes out because its a good game but eternal looks like its gonna blow it out of the water

>>5776396
It's still very fun, very few games convey the power of a weapon so well, it's very satisfying blasting demons with the shotgun. The level design is generally great, though I will admit there are some duds.

Gameplay's perfect, level design isn't. It's very hit-and-miss in both games.

>>5776396
Vanilla is good, but not up to modern standards. It's levels are a mixed bag, some of them youll like, some you will hate.

Community wads like Eviternity, BTSX, Bloodstain etc. paired up with a good gameplay mod like High Noon Drifter or some such, are best shooting experiences you can get in the modern day and age.

>>5777282
Bloodstain was great, one of my favorites, but encounter design focuses heavily on you using the features of the levels as cover when you fight, which in terms of Doom suited me fine (I tend to use cover fairly frequently anyway), but some people are fundamentally opposed to that idea (thinking the use of cover is what makes modern shooters bad, when it's actually a lot more complex than that), so certain people will just not enjoy that megawad.

They'd maybe be more inclined to like Scythe 2 (which is an immortal classic).

>>5776396
Duke is better

It is. It is a matter of what you are used to. Some people may need retraining to play it.

I will say that combining it with GZDoom may enhance the experience since it includes the mouse for turning and aiming.

Oh and I unironically enjoy the Brutal Doom mod.

>>5776396
The nice thing about the original Doom, is that there really wasn't a specific mode of gameplay being forced on you. If you wanted to fly through like a maniac, you could. If you wanted to be slow and conserve bullets, you could. Take or leave secret areas if you care. It isn't a sandbox game, but the freedom gives it a sandbox quality.

I have no Nostalgia for Doom. I thought it was vile, I wanted nothing to do with it. Then I play Doom 64 last year, it was my first doom, and I just finished the first two games this week. I think it's legitimately good. Hard as balls, but with the ability to save at any time, it's not hard in a frustrating way.

>>5776821
I think the new one is way better than Doom 3 in the terms of enemy design. At least the new games try to look like updated versions of the original designs. Doom 3 just kind of made everything unrecognizable.

>>5778005
Doom 3 made demons "realistically bland"

>>5778005
Doom 3 did some things right, and some things wrong.
It really wanted to be a horror game without really getting how to be a horror game, relying on lots of jumpscares, as a shooter it leaves some things to be desired, but it's at least kind of competent.
The level design is passable, but dull, as it's 80% the same styles of steel deckplates, grating, and wall panels, you never see any concrete, ceramic tiles, carpeting, or wood paneling. I can see machine rooms, garages, and access shafts being spartan, but the office areas and living spaces just looks like more of this monotone industrial stuff and it's just not realistic, people would at least put in more lights and try to interior decorate to make feel less like you're living and working in an engine room, even if it means plastic faux wood panels and furniture.
No wonder UAC workers went apeshit.

Weapons should be a bit faster and punchier, the shotgun shouldn't be a glorified melee weapon, and the monsters needed to me more distinct, under no circumstances should I be mistaking an arch-vile for an imp, give him more color, a distinct texture, and make him disturbingly fast like in the classic games, when you see him, so much as glimpse him, you should know what he is based on how fucking quick he is alone.

>>5778121
the first couple hours of doom 3 start off slow and it introduces you to all the enemies and weapons its paced pretty well and has some spooky moments, after you get to hell though the pace of the game really picks up and there is a lot more action, going back again and playing it today especially with the BFG edition was surprisingly fun.

>>5778027
They kinda did. You look at some of the designs out in the brightness, and some of them are pretty cool, but they're all very grey, and all very similarly humanoid, which doesn't make them distinct enough in a grey environment with shoddy lighting.
I remember at one point in a fight cycling through my inventory and falling back from fire, and I stop for half a second to smack an imp with the flashlight, and then realizing a second later "Wait, I just craned an arch-vile in the face with my maglite" which is funny in hindsight, but I shouldn't be able to make that mistake, he's supposed to be one of the most threatening enemy encounters in the game. He's really too easy, is my second complaint.

The classic Doom games did one thing absolutely perfectly, and that is that it's very hard to confuse the different enemies, they have distinct shapes and outlines, animate in their own way, at their own speed, and have their own colors.

Still the pinnacle of FPS desighn 20 years later. Fast paced action with good movement, open ended levels, varied enemy types, guns are good, and tons of stuff that seems obvious today all started with Doom. There's a reason so many games wanted to use it's engine, and there's so many mods still being made.

>>5778210
I didn't know Doom was released in 1999.

Episode 2 is the best episode, E2M6 is the best level

>>5778173
I think this old Penny Arcade comment summed it up best

>Every time I see a new screenshot from Doom 3 I chuckle. I just can’t help it. I mean these have to be some of the most uninspired creature designs ever. The idea is that you’re fighting monsters from Hell but the best the devil or whatever can come up with is a skeleton with guns on his shoulders. It’s like the devil is a 7th grader who hates his mom and draws pentagrams on his notebooks during intro to physical science.

Limit removing episodes like No Rest for the Living are much better than the original campaign.

>>5776396
It was the game that started the FPS genre, dude. Of course it was good, now other games,specifically Duke 3D, Shadow Warrior and Bloodultimately surpassed it a few years later, but Doom is still very good and fun even today.

>>5778416
IMO the only classic fps that surpassed Doom is Heretic because it did everything Doom did but just better.
Duke 3D and Blood have shitty weapons and too many annoying enemies, Shadow Warrior is overbloated and soulless.

yes

>>5778421
shadow warrior is full of soul you retarded nigger its basically a love letter to asian culture before the internet and globohomo immigration taught everyone chinese and japanese arent the same thing

>>5778421
>blood
>shitty weapons

take it back you sad cunt

>>5776396
>was doom good
Still is. There's your answer. Now go post about Doom in the dedicated thread, faggot.

If you even know how to use the catalog, that is.

>>5776396
It was and still is a good game. It also was the first real FPS game, and that shows now that there's games with decades' worth of honing of the concept.
The automatic Z aim threw me off, for example, as did the fact that you can't look up or down. This is especially problematic since some of the enemies can fly.
The low resolution means it's hard to see faraway enemies since they can be just a pixel or two in size. Have fun hitting that.
It's also hard to judge whether some enemy is in melee range or not because they're just 2d sprites.
On the other hand, the core gameplay loop is still stellar and the map design is excellent, barring a few exceptions. Looking at you, E4M1.

/v/-tier thread

"Was Doom good" is actually a legitimate question. Because on modern sourceports, the controls are much better. You can bring the mouse sensitivity up higher. You can turn autorun on without a bug. Most people probably played with default controls which didn't let you turn and strafe at the same time.
Doom today is a very smooth and fast game, but I don't know if it was back then

>>5778171
Oh yeah, Doom 3 is still pretty fun, it really picks up by the first hell excursion and it does ramp things up as you progress, I just think that it's a fairly flawed in a number of departments, but I do still like it a lot (the chainsaw is love).
It's a bit like Quake 2, it's just not as good as Quake, but there's still a pretty enjoyable game there.

>>5778210
I'll say it's the pinnacle of its kind of FPS, there's different types of them which look to achieve different things. Like say SWAT 4, it's a completely different kind of shooter about tactical police procedure and it's not comparable to Doom, but it's a good game still.

>>5778241
I like Shores Of Hell a lot, E2M2, E2M6, E2M7, these are some of my favorite levels.

>>5778380
Well, some of the original Doom monster design was pretty generic (Baron Of Hell, Lost Soul), but it kind of took after the devs' love of D&D, horror movies, and heavy metal music (you could absolutely find something like the Baron Of Hell on some old album cover), and it worked together for a pretty healthy and varied mix, see also:
>The classic Doom games did one thing absolutely perfectly, and that is that it's very hard to confuse the different enemies, they have distinct shapes and outlines, animate in their own way, at their own speed, and have their own colors.

Doom 3s monsters were not distinct enough from each other. The Revenant I think is actually pretty ok because he's so readily different from the others, and is just a take on the classic design.

>>5778395
Kinda true. The original levels are good, but they only had so much time and computer power among their customers back then, so they could only do so much, it's people's love for the game (and computers getting more powerful) that brought out some of the best content.

>>5778695
>This is especially problematic since some of the enemies can fly.
Generally not an issue in the original game's levels as there's not too much verticality, and the vertical auto aim is there for that reason. It can be slightly bothersome in Doom 2 and Final Doom, but generally you should have enough space to maneuver and handle it.

>It's also hard to judge whether some enemy is in melee range or not because they're just 2d sprites.
This actually comes down to for how the monsters in Doom 1 that have both ranged and melee attacks, actually do that with the same function call on the same frames.
It'll determine then and there if what happens is a projectile or melee attack, hence you can't really make them whiff their strike like you can with the pinky, or the revenant in Doom 2, who's melee attack is entirely distinct from his ranged attack, even in animation.

>On the other hand, the core gameplay loop is still stellar and the map design is excellent, barring a few exceptions. Looking at you, E4M1.
I think E4M1 is the bee's knees.

>>5779026
It could be, with a mouse and keyboard, and assuming you're on a 486, it could be very fast and smooth.
There's been some quality of life improvements over the years though.

>>5778482
>love letter
What an interesting way to say you enjoy B-class racist toilet humor.

>>5778665
The Voodoo doll is the only interesting weapon, I will give you that.

>>5778421
>Blood have shitty weapons
>he doesn't know about how good the dynamite is

I bet the cultists bullied the shit out of you, you turbonerd. Blood's weapons are mostly uninteresting thematically, but mechanically they're fucking awesome, the shotgun and dynamite can and will carry you through almost every fight, and where they fail, the napalm launcher and tesla cannon clean house.
Shadow Warrior is fine by the way, drop the dumb /v/ attitude and look at it from a mechanical standpoint, the ninjas are fun to fight, the arsenal is good with the only dud really being the railgun, the grenade launcher and sword are personal favorites. I also like restoring HP from punching the training dummies or watching the ninjas off themselves sometimes. The kamikazes can fuck off though.

>>5780415
You aren't given a real gun with real stopping power until the middle of the second level, the flare gun only becomes useful towards the end of the game since neither its normal or alt fire are capable to stop a zombie or a cultist. The shotgun and the tommy gun quickly become ineffective in the middle game due lack of firepower. The dynamite has an awful arc and small projectile speed that makes it easier to kill you than anything else. The RL and the Tesla Gun kills stuff well but are very unsatisfying to use due horrible sprites and sounds.

My issues about weapons/monsters are towards Duke and Blood, not Shadow Warrior. SW has good weapons, but my issues are lack of atmosphere and nonsensical progression, confusing maps relying on cheap gimmicks, and an overall lack of identity.

>>5780426
>The dynamite has an awful arc
Practice more, it's genuinely one of the best arcing thrown weapons in an FPS game. Plus you can potentially get a shotgun in the first stage if RNG favors you, though if it doesn't, you still get dynamite.

>>5780445
Nah, it`s just bad. I wish there was a mod which could make that shit go where I am pointing my crosshairs at, not fucking three metters higher.

>>5780454
That's the point of an arcing weapon. At this point I'm questioning if you're bamboozling me or if you really are that stubbornly incompetent.

>>5780454
You want the napalm launcher.

>>5780406
>racism is toilet humor
Found the feminized cuck

Yes Doom was fucking amazing when it came out. My brand new 486 ran it beautifully. When you compare it to things like Blakestone that came out the same year, you can see how far ahead it felt. Give Chocolate Doom a go.

For whoever's interested, there's a pack here on VR which has all the major DOS titles. Games got updated and fixes applied where possible.

Titles vary but ofcourse included are Wolfenstein 3D (WASD fix), Doom I/II/64/SIGIL/NRFTL, Quake 1, Quake 2 (DOS port), Blood + Cryptic, Heretic + Serpent Riders, Hexen + Deathkings, Duke 3D, Powerslave and more.

Pastebin link which has all the info and the DL link: https://pastebin.com/MecZvPwm

>>5776396
As someone who did not grow up with Doom and has no nostalgia for it and only tried it out back when I was in college... Yeah, it's actually good.

I'm a zoomer who played doom 1 and 2 for the first time in the past 2 years. I thought 1 was just okay but the SSG + the new monsters in 2 elevate to greatness. The only legitimate problems are pressing buttons to move platforms not visible from the button and the vertical autoaim sometimes fucking up at long distances.

>>5782115
Give Final Doom a try with Crispy Doom, there's some pretty cool maps in it, and Crispy Doom has a couple of optional quality of life upgrades compared to Chocolate Doom.

>>5776471
>I wish there were more games with biaxial aiming like DOOM.
Me too because I can't aim for shit so Doom is the only FPS I play

Reelism is the best Doom mod ever made

>>5783748
Sorry, that's the Nintendo Doom wad where you play as Cranky Kong killing all those modern characters.

Is there a crispier Doom that runs at 1280 x 800?

It's actually better now since the source code was released.

>>5781294
Crispy Doom is basically Chocolate Doom at double res and with a few QoL features that don't take away from the vanilla feel much, also it's limit-removing so you can run more mods on it (like SIGIL)

>>5780415
>blood dynamite
I don't get this thing. It can do anything between fuckall and miskatonic space program, no matter how close to enemy it explodes. Only direct hits are somewhat consistent.

>>5784209
There's an occasional glitch where explosions don't register, some ports fix this.

Blood>Shadow Warrior>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Duke Nukem

I could really use some help getting quake 1.5 to run. I downloaded everything and am able to start it up no problem but when I start a new game the screen stays black. I'm aware the problem is because the version of darkplaces im using isn't the recommended one and has some missing features but I can't run the recommended build on my windows ten. Is there a fix to this?

>>5776396
It was always garbage for trailer trash and incel, future school shooter psychos.

>>5776396
Post this tripe in the doom general with the other six autists, moron.

>>5785314
>>5785321
Cringe

>>5776396
>1993
>Doom comes out
>play it
>HAHA THIS IS JUST NOSTALGIA I HATE IT
86 yourself.