/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5748809
Talent, didn't cater as well to mass audience taste, superior game design philosophies, and technological limitations.

>>5748809
Games of all eras are great.

In a word, hindsight

>>5748809
Nostalgia. 20 years from now, 30 something zoomers will look back at fortnite and minecraft like we look at gen 3-5.

>>5748809
because people today are only looking at how they can ruin things

>>5748872
A little this, too

>>5748871
>Nostalgia.
Wrong.

>>5748809
The real answer is hipsterism. By every emperical measure games still continue to be excellent. But hipsters thrive on finding one thing they like and trying to elevate it by bitching endlessly about everything else.

Threads like this are proof positive. This is a board specifically for the discussion of old games. But many who come here like OP don't even really like old games, certainly not enough to want to talk about them in detail. Mainly, they hold onto a pseudo-love of old games because mostly they just hate new games. The regularity with which these threads get posted is clear proof what the actual agenda is. These people don't really care about games much at all, they just care about venting anger and trying to earn cool points.

>>5748915
>By every emperical measure games still continue to be excellent
I agree to a point. Yes there are still excellent games being made, but certainly you could agree that the rate of excellent games has sharply declined from what it was during 94-04. You're probably right about everything else.

>>5748943
Is more that the total number of games is so astronomically higher now that the average game is far worse which is what the very casual observer will see AND there's no shortage of TERRIBLE games for the cynics to hold up. It's just a matter of perspective.

>>5748943
See I've always been so picky that I typically agree with the 90% of everything is usually crap.

>>5748957
I think this is an important point as well. The volume of games being made and released now is magnitudes more than a few decades ago. And probably seems even more so to people who were primarily console users.

>>5748962
>people who were primarily console users.
That's totally me. PC gaming was outside my budget back then. It's funny that it's actually much cheaper right now, I can get a PC that's as powerful as a standard PS4 or XBone for half of what the consoles cost and the games are cheaper too. Even lifelong PC gamers now are exposed to the full steam of digital distribution although even having worked at gaming stores in the 90s I don't understand in hindsight how they kept up with all the releases back then.

>>5748957
I like you. You have entirely too much brainpower to be here though, so you're going to need to get out.

I do prefer retro games but I can also see the good things in modern gaming

To me personally alot of modern gaming just look the same while retro gaming has more diveserty in my opinion.

>>5748915
That would be Indie games, yes there are people who like these games because they're soulless hipsters but if you truly think people don't go in depth in a lot of these games or don't love them you are surely mistaken.

>>5748973
I think I really lucked out in that we got a computer before I got an NES and even though many of the games were much less graphically impressive, it opened my eyes to many different types and I grew up trying out all kinds of stuff that would now be considered shovel ware, but at the time seemed fascinating.

>>5748990
If it looked like I was implying that indie games aren't great then I messed up. The ability for almost anyone with a game idea to bring it into reality is one of tge greatest things about the medium these days.

>>5748990
Indie games are the best thing about modern vidya.

>>5749006
I operated a BBS in the very early 90s and was one of the first in my local dialing area to offer shareware CDs for direct download. I played tons of that share/shovelware crap and came to the conclusion it was nowhere near Genesis quality. I actually built the computer I ended up running the BBS on to play The 7th Guest because I was still chasing that multimedia dragon. Those 3D accelerators in the late 90s were just obscenely priced though.

Smaller budgets and more hardware limitations.

>>5748915
Basic bitch comes with a strong post preaching that basic gospel.

>>5748809
They really arent much better, theres good stuff but you look at old games differently than 'Whats coming out this month?' mentality

There are still good games coming out, but with retro you can separate the wheat from the chaff far more easily. With contemporary games there's so much stuff coming out that the real classics won't be determined until years later.

But also the massive popularization of games and the fact that they're so expensive to produced has resulted in a race to the lowest common denominator. There's no AA market anymore. The indie scene fills those gaps mostly but it's not the same as getting an actual AAA industry game that isn't a crafty-shooty-cinematic-adventure.

>>5749120
I could deffinitely understand preferring the Genesis, if I had been forced then to choose only one or the other I may well pick it as well. Genesis is probably my overall favorite of the "retro" consoles. But one of the wonderful things was how different the games were from computer to console. No other game captivated me when I was young like Rogue did, even though I had no manual and wouldn't even come close to beating it for many years. So when I discovered that Nethack was a thing it blew me away. But once fighting games came about that became possibly my favorite genre ever and they always sucked on computer.

>>5749006
Too bad the ideas are always the bad ideas of no-talent nerds, poorly executed. You lucked out by getting a PC because you're a typical geek who can't discern the massive aesthetic difference between conceptually ambitious Western eye-raping junk and pure timeless NES beauty. It's why you're easy to please when some guy shits out hideous conceptually novel Flash trash like Braid, the always soulless systems-based PC stuff, or the excruciating poorly-written dialogue-heavy landfill fodder that makes up 99% of modern games.

You feel that you're better than people who talk about the modern decline because you're open minded and enlightened, but it's just an illusion caused by your bad taste and low standards.

>>5748809
That's not entirely true and you probably know it deep down but willingly choose to see the glass half empty. Sure many older titles had their particular spirit but things like multiplayer gaming is largely improved at the present.

>>5749216
>multiplayer gaming
Yuck.

It isn't, it's just that we're no longer the target audience. We grew up with arcade-style games, but slowly games became to be about delivering a cinematic experience, keeping a larger audience engaged that joined into the hobby when it became more popular, and replacing film.

Games are less about difficulty, repeatability, and due to the amount of effort and cost, a lot less about being innovative and personal artistic expression. That's why Japanese games tend to feel so great, they still need to appeal to people that are more serious about games, and the Japanese don't care about games being a filmic experience.

>>5749223
People figured out how to make and cater perfectly to the mass audiences in a way that they never could in the past. Most people back in the 80s would have eaten this modern shit up just like they do now, if it had been available. When they have the option, in any medium, most people choose total garbage. Look at literature, look at film, look at music.

>>5749223
I was never a fan of arcade shit outside of light gun shooters. Old games are great, and new games are great too.

>>5748884
Is this really from the escapist?

>>5749007
>Indie games are the best thing about modern vidya
Why? Most of them are style over substance. Like some art-school projects.

>>5749298
Play better indie games.

>>5749195
LOL I was just formulating my reply about how the fighting game explosion coincidence with the peak of my retro computing probably contributed a lot to my spending over 9000% of my gaming time on Genesis over my PC. You're alright, Anon.

>>5749298
>Why? Most of them are style over substance. Like some art-school projects.
Remedial art school maybe.

>>5749239
But that's the point I'm trying to make, good games are still being made, it's just that us boomers that grew up with arcade-style games are no longer the target audience.
If you're spending 4 years and millions of dollars making a game to compete with other triple A titles, you're not going to want to appeal to a minority group, you appeal to the larger demographic that see video games as a cinematic experience similar to film.

>>5749319
>it's just that us boomers that grew up with arcade-style games are no longer the target audience
I grew up with arcade style games (first console was a genesis), and as soon as I had a taste of RPGs, action-adventures, cRPGs, and collect-a-thons, I largely dropped the arcade shit and never looked back. I'm not the target audience for genres outside of my specific tastes, but for those that I'm interested in, it sure seems like I am.
>you appeal to the larger demographic that see video games as a cinematic experience similar to film
I think that's more of a AAA first/third person shooter thing, rather than all genres being ruined with that design philosophy.

Industry became to big for itself. It's all about.making money at the cost of innovation.

>>5749212
>you're a typical geek who can't discern the massive aesthetic difference between conceptually ambitious Western eye-raping junk and pure timeless NES beauty. It's why you're easy to please when some guy shits out hideous conceptually novel Flash trash like Braid,

Lol I'm an artist by trade and didn't like anything about Braid. Good try I guess?

>>5749307
That time when fighting games suddenly became a phenomenon and everyone was scrambling to learn every little thing they could to get an edge... Ohh yeah those were the days. I spent so many years yearning for a big sequel to Budokan that was like a real fighter, but alas was never to be.

>>5748809
>made by people that truly loved games
>wasn't a lot of normies, casuals or money in it at first for awhile
>the gaming crash actually soured many on gaming (this ended up being an extremely good thing overall because it got shitter American companies out of the fucking industry which were shitting it up)
>the retro era was the time of the most and best innovations coming to gaming
>2D was still strong

Really though the main culprit that ruined modern era of gaming is the internet. This sums up a lot of other issues people might have. Online is essentially the root of most problems today about gaming.

>>5748809
They've got the general masses hooked on games and DLC, so you will get a lot of low effort cash grabs as long as they can get away with it, which is probably going to be indefinitely.

Why do newfags make the same threads over and over again?

They didn't have DLC and loot boxes, and...that's it, a few years back i would have talked about lack of variety and games being too easy, but thanks to indie games and some changes, i find myself enjoying modern games in all genres.

...In fact, i find that nowadays i play more modern games than retro games, doesn't help that not every game i used to love still holds up or aged that well, not every NES game exactly aged as well as SMB3 much to my dissapointment.

>>5749434
The internet ruined a lot of things, gaming included.

>>5749375
Can you show us some of your work, or if not, at least something you admire?

>>5748826
/thread I love retro but these retropuristfags, I can't stand them

Because everything in the past is soon retro.

>>5749212
>systems-based PC
What do you mean by this anon? I feel I know what you’re talking about but don’t

>>5749490
Sure why not, this is a commission I just finished.

>>5749530
In it's new home. The owner wanted something that reminded her of her childhood in Scotland and she was over the moon. Seeing someone excited to get to enjoy a painting is the best feeling in the world.

>>5749303
There are no better indie games, show me what you'd call good

>>5748809
>Why are Retro games so much better than Modern games?
Different markets. A game like Klonoa would bankrupt a studio/dev team these days. Also modern levs lack the creativity for a game like that. At the other end you have games like Thief were modern game devs could never match the surrealism to gameplay that made that work.
These days it's either small dev team/one dude making some PS filter sprites indie game or it's some realistic/blue yellow color filter trash. Or Japshit which is beyond horrible these days.

>>5748809
Because you only play the good retro games and ignore or are blissfully unaware of how much complete garbage came out right next to the classics.

>>5748871
Minecraft is unironically ok. 10 years later and people still play it means it counts for something.

>>5748915
You are right.

In 2018, two of my top new vidya experiences was Rise Of The Triad (1994), and Shadow Warrior (2013). Had never played them before, and I had lotsa fun.

I play very few games when they are brand new, it suits my interests more to pick up a game from at least a few years back, because it will be cheaper and it will probably have some patches, possibly it has DLC, which can on odd occasion be good.
Also there'll be a bunch of reviews and opinions I can give a look to for input before buying.

>>5749212
damn son
you embittered as fuck

>>5749223
There's more to retro games and their difficulty/challenge than arcade style.

>>5749298
Most of everything is substandard or mediocre, you need to look around for what's actually good, grabbing things at random isn't useful for looking for quality.

>>5749434
>>made by people that truly loved games
The absolute majority of game devs was just people treating it as a job, at best you had maybe one or two guys per company who had a genuine love for it, actual wonder teams made up out of mostly talented people who really cared for and wanted to make a game they thought would be good were the minority.

>>5749446
Low effort cashgrabs or publishers booting unfinished games out the door never happened until the 21st century, guys!

>>5749530
I like it. Those cliff formations are interesting, are they made up or based on a real place in Scotland?

>>5748809
It's survivorship bias.

I mostly prefer more recent games because they don't lag constantly and they're more about gameplay than graphics, unlike a majority of pre-2000 titles.

>>5748809
They're not, there are more great games being made today than ever before.
It's just there's also far more shitty games being made too, and those are the only ones you notice.

>>5750107
I don't think this is true. Most "great" games thst come out are quite similar. They are either super easy open world games trying to tell a big fuck off story, dark souls types or online shooters.
Online games might be better, I will give you that, but I certainty can't see how single player games are. Single player games are more like interactive videos because they are so bloody easy and clearly more concerned with telling their boring story.
Simple as.

>>5748809
In retrospect, we can filter out all of the shit. People who played games back then have since spent time replaying decent games more often than bad ones. Younger generations are more likely to be told "go back and play this good game" than to be told "fire up and emulator so you can check out this shovelware".

>>5750056
You should look further than 5th gen

>>5750047
I do. Usually this isn't the case for ibdie games. So far only Fins undestand what makes a game good (Swapper, Trine, Legend of Grimlock)

>>5750140
So much this, TONS of garbage was being churned out back in the day and it was much more difficult to sift through it all to find the gold unless it had a major developer on it. I would accept that the top mainstream games these days are hampered by horrible microtransactions and more samey designs, but we've also seen a few surprise swings like Monster Hunter and Nier Automata actually doing well in the west (possibly due to dissatisfaction with most mainstream games), and instead of seeing that random gem in the bargain bin you now have indie games filling a similar role, often delivering interesting results. Of course people get locked into the type of game styles they grew up with not unlike how every generation tends to stick with music genres from their youths more than whatever is topping the charts currently, meaning there's also bias at play. Also I don't count mobile games as games anymore than I do a crossword puzzle in a newspaper, so those being shit has nothing to do with my opinion on modern games.

>>5750129
As opposed to the old days when there was a lot of platformers, or beat'em ups, or strategy and RPG games in computers?

The industry tends to focus on some genres for a period of time since it first started, sure, you can say that there was a difference in art styles and settings, but it's not as if the few actually original games that actually got popular didn't start getting ripped off by everybody afterwards.

And it's mostly David Cage games and such that focus on telling a story which...games that are mostly focused on telling a story and not much to do have existed for a long while, hell, the first Chrono Trigger sequel, Radical Dreamers, was pretty much text only and didn't have much gameplay, and it was also at the time that developers really wanted to do FMV's and cutscenes at all times.

As for being easy...yeah, though i am going to go ahead and say that games in the AAA industry are becoming a bit harder and harder thanks to Demon Souls and Dark Souls showing that people still like hard games, and, of course, a lot of indie games as well.

Look, there are reasons to dislike modern gaming, DLC's, online only games, lootboxes, lack of physical copies, but i also really dislike people who act as if every game in the retro days was full of creativity or amazing, hell, a lot of creative or unique games tended to suck because the mechanics weren't developed enough yet, not every company was exactly as great as Nintendo or Capcom after all.

Also, for whoever talks about lack of creativity or that genres are dying, indie games have been keeping a lot of genres alive and the good indie games tend to be good, though it's hard to find the good stuff under the big piles of crap, still, i won't say no to games like Dropsy, Demon's Tilt, Fight N' Rage, One Finger Death Punch, Parkitect and ZeroRanger when i see them.

>>5750343
4th gen was all about graphical tricks. mode 7, SGI pre-renders, StarFox, etc.

>>5750140
When I compare eras I don't take into account the garbage or even the mediocre; the filtering issue is meaningless. There have been hardly any great games made since the PS2 era, but from before that time there are hundreds. The difference is glaringly obvious. From Software is almost propping up modern games on its own, and even From I only consider to be something like the equivalent of an upper-mid-tier studio of the NES/SNES gen.

...I guess people have different tastes?

I can't see how Dark Souls doesn't beat many of the NES/SNES Gen best games and i can actually think of many games i had fun with, just not the big AAA games.

Then again, i am the kind of crazy guy that thinks some games like Ocarina Of Time, Goldeneye, Star Fox, Final Fight and others either have aged badly or were never that good, so make of that what you will.

Still really enjoy games like Super Mario World, Chrono Trigger, Contra and Streets Of Rage along many others, just think that some people seem to look at classics and see a much better game than i see.

>>5750603
Theres more than snes

>>5750596
Video games only became great in the mid 90s up until around 2006/7, then it all went to shit because of call of duty 4 and Skyrim.
The ps1 and ps2 by far had the best library of games.

>>5750778
You must be from a dimension in which the NES/Famicom never existed. That's a dark dimension.

>>5750796
Yeah, i mean, i think a lot of NES games aren't that great like the original Zelda, but come on, the NES had:

Mighty Final Fight which i find more fun than the actual Final Fight.

The Guardian Legend

Fire N'Ice

Batman

Adventures Of Lolo

Castlevania

River City Ransom

Power Blade

Metal Storm

The Super Mario Bros games

Kirby's Adventure and many others, while i do think the quality of a lot of the games are exaggerated sometimes and i find some games like Zelda and the original Metroid(though i really love the GBA remake) to really not be as great as some people say, the fact is that the NES still has quite a few good and fun games.

>>5750054
Thanks. It's all just made up, and a little more fantastical than you would find in reality but it was what she wanted so I'm happy to deliver.

>>5750129
I think what you're talking about with "great" games is what gets talked about most because of popularity. But that's always been the way. I sometimes felt like an outsider in that I have never enjoyed Platformers a ton but for decades seemingly everyone has held up the Mario franchise as the peak of gaming. I think it's great people like them, but I never really did so I played other stuff.

The modern era is very much the same. Most of the AAA franchises like Souls and CoD etc don't do much for me. But I've always been used to digging around looking for what is interesting and these days are pretty great for that.

>>5750651
I'd celebrate modern games DMC5, Underrail, Guilty Gear and Portal, but I can see your point.

>>5750026
>Because you only play the good retro games and ignore or are blissfully unaware of how much complete garbage came out right next to the classics.
This argument never made sense to me. Part of the appeal if not the major thing to going back to retro games is besides reenjoying the games you grew up with is finding a random dev team or publisher and picking up literal no name games that are actually good. That’s how I found games like Mischief Makers. You can’t do that with modern games from the 6th gen up. There’s too much trash and too little good games. And sure, you can go and read modern reviews of retro games. You’re still getting a ton of no name stuff through all the retro gens. Back then it was very easy to just try new games often with blockbuster every weekend. There are no “hidden gems” with modern games. And the newer you get the more complete trash the whole gen gets. I honestly can’t think of a single game that released under the radar in modern times that then turned out to be a good. This is again because modern games are almost exclusively trash. Off the top of my head you could maybe say an early to mid 2000s indie games because they were only just starting to become popular.
>>5751396
Only one of those games was actually good or notable. That being Portal.

I mean, the original Guilty Gear that was in the PS1 wasn't the greatest, fine, but Guilty Gear is an amazing series beloved by fighting game fans of all ages for a reason, DMC5...i haven't played but aside from 2, the DMC series tends to be really fun, fast paced and hard enough that i genuinely think is more fun than a lot of old action games, Portal is great too, Underrail...would rather play the first two Fallout games.

As for not enough good games nowadays, i find that really hard to believe with the amount of games released nowadays, i can easily see lists a few years from now talking about games a lot of us here haven't heard of.

I also see a lot of modern games i enjoy actually being the kind that would get amazing scores in magazines back in the day and maybe become classics, games like Cuphead and Shovel Knight are really fun platformers, same goes for Freedom Planet and Cursed Castilla, Super Hydorah and ZeroRanger are fun shooters, Heiankyo Alien 3671 and One Finger Death Punch shows that arcade style games can still be a ton of fun, Megaquarium and Prison Architect still keep simulation games alive and games like Two Point Hospital and Parkitect keep the style of games such as Theme Hospital alive.

Crosscode is a fun Zelda like game with more emphasis on puzzles, Puyo Puyo has come back and there is always new puzzle games like the Hexcell series alongside others like Baba Is You.

Hell, even local multiplayer party games are alive and well, and it's not just Nintendo, you can pick up indie titles like Towerfall Ascension, Speedrunners and Ultimate Chicken Horse and have a lot of fun with friends, sure, there are a lot of bad games or good games going unnoticed, but just because not every good indie game blows up in popularity doesn't mean that good indie games don't exist.

Also, Ultimate Chicken Horse is great and you can make a long line of punching gloves activated by arrows or hockey pucks to kill your friends and that is great.

>>5751619
>lists a bunch of indie
Everytime.

>>5751630
Gottem.

>>5751630
Indie is a big market these days, and indie/small publisher games are 95% of good games these days. You can say stupid shit like "all modern games are shit" and then clearly have only played releases from Epic, Activision, or EA. But you'll sound really stupid and ignorant doing so.

>>5751659
Show me one "good" indie game that isn't just some shitty rippoff of a flash game from new grounds or a RPGmaker game. Because the only one I know of is Pier Solar.
>and indie/small publisher games are 95% of good games these days.
You're an idiot if you're going to say indie shit is good.
>then clearly have only played releases from Epic, Activision, or EA. But you'll sound really stupid and ignorant doing so.
So stay away from mainstream. Aka 99% of games. Aka all modern games are trash.

>>5751671
Pier Solar is not a good game. I appreciate the "it runs on a real Genesis" aspect, and the Genesis chiptune music is great. But everything else about it is bad. From the awful framerate to the terrible pacing. The retro game on a real retro console thing isn't a typical indie release, its a niche thing that is sometimes but usually not good.

I'm talking actually fun releases like Dead Cells or Furi.

>>5751678
>The retro game on a real retro console thing isn't a typical indie release
It's almost like modern devs regardless if they are working in a shoebox or have a AAA budgets have zero creativity or skills and go for an easy to do photoshop filter to represent sprites. And then a horde of literal retards proceed to defend these "games".
>Dead Cells
>Furi
Like this shit.

>>5749160
Who, you?

>>5749212
Read
>>5749160

>>5751686
>It's almost like retro devs regardless if they are working in a shoebox or have a AAA budgets have zero creativity or skills and go for an easy to do scotformer with shitty arcade design
Fuck fun, right?

>>5751686
Yes, I'm sure a polygonal game is trying to represent "sprites".

Lets face it, you're probably one of these people
>>5748915
and you don't even like video games. Its why this board is such shit that we can't even discuss old games.

>>5751701
>muh fun
You can admit you just want to hop on the hipster train and play indie games instead of flash games. Do tell me how this is any different to Alien Hominid. The games as a whole aren't fun. They rely on one gimmick and are extremely generic shit otherwise. Like Dead Cells and Furi.

>>5751712
>The games as a whole aren't fun. They rely on one gimmick and are extremely generic shit otherwise
That describes every single gen 1-3 game.

>>5751703
My entire first point was about liking old games. Nice reading comprehension retard. That's the main reason I hate this faux sprite indieshit. Since I actually play real sprite based it's such a jarring thing to me when they don't work like they should in a grid.

Also fuck off with this Furi trash. Seriously. That games has over 50% of it's cost in DLC.
>>5751716
Bit different for gen 1-2 when they are the ones that made it a thing. Gen 3 not at all. Zelda alone set up multiple features that all games use today. From saving to the overworld.

>>5751725
>muh grid
You can't get more hipster than hating rixels.

>>5751738
>you hate the glaring flaw in reproducing oldschool sprites that almost all indieshit game
>can count the exceptions on one hand
>so you're a hipster and hate games
Man good logic.

There are indie games that aren't 2D or retro style, though being 2D and using sprites isn't a bad thing if, you know, the game has a good art style and it's clear that the developer used it for more than attracting people who like retro games.

It's also not a sign of laziness, or do people really just think that making a sprite and animations is something that can be done in 5 or 10 minutes?

The more detailed and bigger the number of sprites, animations and backgrounds the more and more work one has to put in it, it's why some people spend years making those games, sure not always to the best result.

I mean, Iconoclasts took 8 years to make from a really dedicated developer making it as a sign of clear love for the game and...it was at best mediocre, but then you have something like Cuphead or Hollow Knight which took years and resulted in something that people genuinely love.

>>5751797
The only reason to use sprites is to have an oldschool feel. There's no positive to using sprites at all. They are time consuming to make and use. Then there's indieshit which is literally a 3 step process of draw some shit and hit the cool retro filter of your choice. It's not a sign of laziness you're right. It is laziness and there's is no exception.

>>5748915
This.

>>5748973
back in the day there were pc gamer demo discs so even if you didn't get to play the whole thing you still got a good taste of it.

>>5748809
Because you keep playing the good old games and the shit modern games. If you name the modern games you've played and the old games you've played it will become immediately apparent that you have shit taste.

>>5751956
List 10 great modern games.

>>5751962
Every time someone asks you to list X good games, what they actually mean is:
>i am positioning myself as the arbiter of what is or isn't good, no matter what you list, i will disagree and win the argument
It's tiresome.

>>5751805
>There's no positive to using sprites at all.

Except that, you know, they look better.

not either of those anons but as someone who plays retro games as well as retro inspired or pixelshit games, often i see a game that looks good either in images or a quick video, when i actually dl and play it just isn't fun, i have to slog through turds to find gems that i do enjoy,that goes fo both types of games. The only indie games i'll shill is The Messenger (even the Ninja Gaiden creators were blown away by it) and Tiny Barbarian

>>5751967
Do you fail at context or do you have a point?

>>5751962
Limiting to 2014 onwards.

Ori and the Blind Forest, Binding of Isaac, Alien Isolation, Hollow Knight, The Talos Principle, Shadow Tactics, Katana Zero, Devil May Cry 5, La Mulana 2, Metal Gear Rising.

>>5751979
You have no point other than to shit up this board with mindless drivel. We get it, you hate video games.

>>5751980
>indieshit
>release broken and still broken (Alien)
>pay to win trash with DMC5 and others
Also I gatta say this trend of indieshit thinking their DIGITAL sound tracks are worth $15-$30 is fucking hilarious and impressive at the same time. They really got their market down and are milking it.

Any good list of objectively shit games. DLC like that = cancer.

>>5751981
I get you don't understand how sprites should look or animate. But that doesn't mean I hate games retard. You don't have the competency to understand my point or to talk about the subject in general. Instead you throw labels with nothing to back up on people that hate your trash. If you want to like indie game sprites that's fine. Not understanding why someone wouldn't means you have zero opinion on the subject.

>>5751965
Looks like you called >>5751997's mental illness and denial. I guess he's just a pissy little graphics whore who goes onto Steam to whine about being charged $30 for a game that isn't "twibble ayyyy". Unless a game's graphics and gameplay are full 3D with extensive post-processing effects and marketing campaigns spanning television, magazines, websites, and 1:1 scale models of the main character in gamestores it's not actually a game to him, because he's mentally ill.

>>5752007
I'm not sure if that was suppose to be satire or if you're honestly supporting DLC ridden trash like in that list. The gaming community is that bad these days so it has to be said.

>>5752009
Do you have actual criticisms and not buzzwords? Make your point or walk away in shame with your pants down and a smacked arse.

>>5748809
They had to do more with less

>>5751980
>Ori and the Blind Forest
Solid pick.
>Binding of Isaac
I know people are really passionate about this, but even giving it 30 minutes was a struggle. Feels like a sluggish flash game. My recommendation for that genre would be Neon Chrome.
>Alien Isolation
Terrible broken walking sim that's not scary at all. For a genuinely well-done horror game that isn't cynical walking sim trash, check out Darkwood.
>Hollow Knight
Very good.
>The Talos Principle
Not really my genre, so I can't criticize this.
>Shadow Tactics
Excellent spiritual successor to the Commandos series.
>Katana Zero
Never heard of it.
>Devil May Cry 5
>Metal Gear Rising
Not my genre either, I'd replace those with DaS 3 and Nioh.
>La Mulana 2
Didn't know they released a sequel. Tried the first but I'm way too much of a brainlet for those puzzles.

>>5752013
>Do you have actual criticisms and not buzzwords?
Yes, you are cancer. How you can sit there and honestly have an opinion that a game where you can just buy the currency is not only good but great is sad. Oh and the best part is if you start a new game you have to buy the currency again. So that was smart on the Dev's part I guess. Good game... no I mean GREAT! game.

>>5748826
Based.
I only come here because /vg/ isn't nearly as much of a shithole as /v/.

>>5752021
La Mulana 2 is much, much more civilized about its puzzles than the original. The consequences of your actions are immediately apparent and you are given a lot of freedom which offsets that.

>>5752025
Found the guy who thinks DMC5's music sucks.

>>5752031
I like how you're trying to avoid at any cost the fact that it's a piece of shit modern game. Trash like most all modern games. You ignore it's pay to win. You ignore it has over $100 in DLC. (literally it does I didn't exaggerate that)

Yep that's a great modern game. And you're a great modern gamer that consumes that trash.

>>5752034

>>5752036
Don't worry. You'll forget about this game soon and the new DLC game will be out soon. Or maybe that hot new indie game.

>>5752030
Pretty much, La-Mulana 2 was made to be hard and have puzzles but they tried to make the game easier to understand, my God, i remember playing La-Mulana 1 and thinking i was the greatest idiot in the world.

>>5751965
Here are 50 games I think are good

1. Dark Souls
2. The Legend of Zelda
3. Final Fantasy Tactics
4. TIE Fighter
5. X-Wing
6. Super Mario Brothers 3
7. Super Mario World
8. Final Fantasy IV
9. Zelda: A Link to the Past
10. Master of Magic
11. Warcraft 2
12. Bushido Blade
13. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out
14. Super Mario Brothers 3
15. Everquest
16. World of Warcraft (classic)
17. Super Mario World
18. Mega Man X
19. Mega Man 2
20. Mega Man 3
21. Baldur's Gate 2
22. Final Fantasy V
23. Final Fantasy VII
24. X-Wing Alliance
25. Final Fantasy VI
26. Chrono Trigger
27. F-Zero
28. Super Mario 64
29. Baldur's Gate
30. TECMO Super Bowl
31. Super Mario Brothers 2
32. Super Mario Brothers 1
33. Xenogears
34. TMNT (NES)
35. Rampart (NES)
36. Street Fighter II
37. NBA Jam
38. Scorched Earth: The Mother of All Games
39. Final Fantasy IX
40. Wolfenstein 3D
41. Atari Combat
42. Rastan (Arcade)
43. Actraiser
44. Tetris (NES)
45. Soul Blazer
46. Eye of the Beholder (I+II)
47. Krynn Series (Gold Box SSI D&D)
48. Ocarina of Time
49. Elder Scrolls: Skyrim (w/ mods)
50. Dark Souls III

>>5752096
There's a lot of shitty games on that list, but you won me over with Bushido Blade.

>>5752098
Which ones do you think are shitty?
(unless it's one of the JRPGs in which case I really don't give a flying fuck what you think)

>>5752212
Xenogears really ain't that great, Anon and you know it.

>>5751703
>and you don't even like video games.

But the opposite is true.

>>5751962
rune factory 3
ghost trick
solatorobo
gravity rush
the wonderful 101
oreshika: tainted bloodlines
rodea the sky soldier (wii version only)
kirby: planet robobot
digimon story cyber sleuth
persona 5

>>5752512
>rodea the sky soldier (wii version only)
That's how I know your opinion is shit. At least the Wii u version wasn't waggle. The game was terrible on both though.

>>5748973
I was exactly the same as well. As a kid and then a teen I had a Wii and a 360, but then the second I enter uni and got my first job I was suddenly able to get my own PC and found that in the long term it was much cheaper than console gaming.

What was working in a gaming store in the 90s like?

>>5748809
Heres the correct answer:

Back then there werent established market trends. So companies were trying new things and generally allowed to experiment.

Now theres a clear way to make profit margins so studio CEOs/investors tell developers to follow trends which just happen to be shit.

Basically,capitalism

>>5752531
>Back then there werent established market trends.

Lol are you retarded?

>>5752547
There weren't, young one. Different anon.

>>5752525
the wii u/3ds version ruined the game with the stupid flight meter and shit controls. it was so bad that yuji naka went on twitter and begged people to play the wii version instead. i'm pretty sure he wasn't even involved with the wii u/3ds version.
the wii version is a fun arcade-style blend of gravity rush, kid icarus uprising, and nights into dreams. and it's one of the rare games that controls better with the wiimote. all using the control stick did was slow the wii u/3ds version down to a crawl by comparison.

>>5752572
>shit controls
Compared to waggle?

>>5752591
yes, and i usually hate waggle. controlling the cursor with the analog stick instead of the wiimote just slowed the game to a crawl.

>>5752648
Both versions controlled terribly. So not sure what you're on about. Waggle in no way helped. Maybe if you grew up with waggle. Same with that NiGHTS game on the Wii. That's about the only game I can play on Wii since it supports a normal controller.

>>5752551
I mean, any time a game became big, you can be sure there were clones, look at the Pong clones, the Space Invader clones, the Pac-Man clones, the Super Mario Bros clones some of which were blatant like Giana Sisters, the mascots with attitude when Sonic came around, even on smaller markets like the UK you saw games like Manic Miner and KnightLore lead to a ton of clones.

There has always been market trends and people following those, it's just that we forget a lot of clones for being mediocre, as for innovation, no shit, a lot of genres, mechanics and such had to be created and improved upon, and not all unique or original games of the past are exactly great, sometimes, there is a reason why established mechanics keep being used, it's because they work.

I mean, yeah, they could experiment, but back then there were a lot more ideas that weren't done before, nowadays, a lot of the new ideas just prove that there was a reason they weren't done before, not to mention that not everyone buys those experiments, i mean, a lot of people complain about games all being the same but when there is a game that actually tries to do something different, a lot of the times it is ignored by those complainers and it sells poorly.

>>5752025
Or you could just not suck at the game and not buy the currency, trust me, it's actually possible to do this.

>>5752034
Pay2win implies it's only beatable or playable by the use of ingame purchases and micro transactions.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending that they're in the game, I'm saying that you can ignore them and the game will be great.

>>5752531
>Back then there werent established market trends.
This is what zoomers a ACTUALLY believe.

>>5752551
That is objectively fucking untrue, any time something became a hit it was senslessly imitated, from Super Mario Bros and Doom, all the way back to an entire ERA of games where near everything was a machine playing Pong.

Those are trends. It's like you're some kind of fucking idiot or something.

>>5753128
I was too lazy to type it out, and this thread is a dumpster fire but exactly. Video game history has been one long string of chasing hits.

>>5753002
There's still tons of experimenting, but you guys all like to pretend that's different now because an old independent game maker was a cool trend setter and now they're shit because you say so lol.

>>5749223
>but slowly games became to be about delivering a cinematic experience
i hate this. the story should be inconsequential and skipable

>>5753275
honk honk

The issue is much more complex than just saying one cause. It was pretty much a new medium in the 80s and a lot of developers and journalist were young people, so they were very passionate, tried a lot of things and invented new kind of games and genres pretty much every year. This kind of energy and the culture that surrounded it impregnated the games and gave them a special charm that is very difficult to replicate because of the different social and political climate of today. Also, arcades were big so games had to be easy to play but difficult to master, whithout long tutorials, patches and loading times. And to get your attention, have amazing art and music.

Nowadays, companies like Capcom, Sega or Square make games that take 5 years to develop, while back then they could make much more games and take more risks. Those big japanese companies even had resources to develop games about all kind of licenses like Disney, Batman, Dungeons & Dragons, Nemo, Mc Donalds, etc. This is very rare today.

There were bad games then? Of course, but the good games were pretty much milestones of game history like Out Run, Sim City, Monkey Island, Ghouls 'n Ghosts, Super Mario, Bubble Bobble, Shinobi, Tetris, Final Fight, Sonic Teh Hedgehog, Contra, R-Type, Zelda, Castlevania, etc.

>>5748809
>Why are Retro games so much better than Modern games?
ahem, think again sweetie

>>5753306
Yeah, the long developments and high budgets are really taking away a lot of the dynamism.

>>5753306
>Sim City
about to do my first playthrough on the gba. am i picking the wrong version? system? im not worried about it being the first sim city btw but also not going to buy one off steam

>>5752287
>Xenogears
It's good enough to be ranked with the other games on the list. Being overly ambitious tends to mean you get greatness and shit in the same package.
A few of the ranks should probably be shifted around somewhat but whatever, it's pretty close

>>5748809
Because /v/ is cancer and literally /pol/tarts and IRL we have SJW Sony.

>>5753262
I know there is experimentation, just feels like it's much harder to come up with something completely unique, and if there is, it won't sell as much, then again, that's par for the course, a lot of the more experimental and weird retro games didn't exactly sell by a lot, even back then, gamers would most likely go for something that is more along what they were used to and then one or two games could break through and become popular, i mean, experimental games sold badly enough that even getting someone to publish Simcity was pretty hard!

But yeah, if i look hard enough, i can find something like Hypnospace Outlaw or Textorcist, hell, even without going indie there are some games made that try to be different, they just didn't sell enough like Half-Minute Hero(God, as someone who bought the games for PSP and Steam, i would love a new game).

>>5753312
Oh yeah, that is a choice Resetera cut. Meaty. Delicious.

>>5748884
>>5749258
I'm thinking the same since they regularly ban people for even mentioning GG, SJW and trolls.

>>5749375
>Budokan that was like a real fighter, but alas was never to be.

Best we got was Bushido Blade, or maybe one of those MMA games.

>>5751965
I wanted to get a sense of what you consider to be great so that I can better understand your opinion and taste. And I only position myself as the arbiter of what is good or isn't in my own opinion.

>>5752512
Wonderful 101 is the only great game on this list.

>>5752531
>Basically,capitalism
The ultimate dumbass explanation. What communist economy has ever produced good videogames?
Blaming capitalism is like saying that breathing air is what causes people to die. You need to be more specific if you want to make any kind of meaningful point.

>>5752212
Warcraft 2, Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, Everquest, World of Warcraft, Mega Man 2, Mega Man 3, TECMO Super Bowl, NBA Jam, Wolfenstein 3D, Atari Combat

>>5753312
at least that person is going to hell.

>>5748809
they were actually difficult.

>>5748814
I mean, this is definitely part of it-- the willingness to explore a new medium rather than do what's safe goes a long way to find those really refreshing experiences. Additionally, 2D titles are easier to "tighten" and refine.

That said, >>5748826 is definitely true. A lot of people who look back do so by cherrypicking their favorites over years. I prefer GC-era and before typically for the aforementioned aspects, but I would prefer to be living in today just because access to new and old, along with translations, romhacks, flashcarts, hardware emulation, etc now exists. Old teams are occasionally even trying to recapture classic games and while they aren't always successful, it still is an expression of love to those old titles. Toejam and Earl is a good example of the latter, while something like Environmental Station Alpha or La Mulana are great examples of a more modern titles capturing what made classic games so good.

>>5753370
Those are all good games.

>>5753120
>>5753123
>I like it so the DLC is fine
Nice cancer.
>>5753002
>>5753128
>>5753262
Notice the word usage you're using.
> any time a game became big
There was no set up market trend at all. It was as you said people chasing fads. Unlike today where it's CoD, FIFA, Madden, and GTA. Dealing with a lot of younger people ITT without a clue.

Because they had soul, that's why.

The media was young enough for truly creative people to take high ranking positions and not be weeded out by the marketing department for not maximizing profit on every single fucking turn. Modern games are nothing but cash grabs with 0 artistic integrity (except for indie titles)

Smaller teams, smaller budget, less intense development. Games weren’t Hollywood 2.0 and didn’t need billion dollar advertising budgets or graphics to be lifelike. Games were made by small teams of passionate nerds making a rad game they thought was cool, instead of a game today being made by legions of Corp slaves ticking off a checklist of mass appeal boxes that need to be in the game.

Technological limitations also meant that laziness wasn’t an option, where today music scores are often forgettable I can hum the tunes of most games I’ve played up until DVDs were he dominant medium.
There are still plenty of really good games made today but the “AAA” of back then and the AAA of today are incomparable.

>>5748814
>didn't cater as well to mass audience taste
wrong

>>5753514
How's he wrong?

The nature of bad games has changed.
Bad retro games were typically low-budget shovelware that had obvious technical shortcomings and design shortcomings that would never get positive word of mouth and you'd never play unless you picked out some game at the rental story completely at random (or possibly because it has a famous licensed IP).

Bad modern games are bad for different reasons. You still have low-budget garbage, but now you also have big-budget games that aren't "bad" due to gross incompetence and laziness, but for understandable (if objectionable) business and design decisions.

Modern games are bloated as fuck. I've heard some games have a download size of over 30GB, and an install size of nearly 80GB. What the fuck are in those things to need them to be so big?

>>5753541
>What the fuck are in those things to need them to be so big
DLC that hasn't been unlocked yet.

>>5753331
No idea which is the best version, to be fair :(

Another thing not mentioned was that then, every piece of hardware was different than the other: The Amiga, the Commodore 64, the Spectrum, the NES, the Game Boy, the Snes, etc, all of them had their uniqueness, their own color palette or sound chip, so a single game like R-Type for instance, could have 7 different versions depending of the hardware. Some of them were crap, others were fun, and others changed a bit the game design to better suit the hardware it was developed. Limitations made developers very creative, even when they did bad and strange games like Trio The Punch or Star Wars by Namco (the NES game).

In my opinion, that kind of things contribute to make retrogaming more fun, colorful and surprising. It's not only a matter of good and bad games, but also how the different circunstances that surrounded the era made gaming more interesting and unique. I mean, Steam is not bad, but as a piece of gaming history is just and app that has not the charm or the interest of a piece of hardware, even if it can be very practical and nice.

>>5753518
games were always marketed to normalfags. the idea that gaming used to be a "niche" hobby is historical revisionism by /v/ kiddies.

>>5749530
>>5749545
Nice talent anon

>>5753541
Uncompressed audio (AAA devs refuse to use FLAC), multi-language audio/video, tons of poorly compressed 4k video. It's common to see 60gb downloads cut down to <20gb just from removing all of the retarded multi-language shit.

>>5753492
>The media was young enough for truly creative people to take high ranking positions
That's true too. And it's amazing reading interviews from the 80s and early 90s and finding out how many developers back then where hired with no experience and sometimes even coming from different industries. I believe Akira Nishitani (Street Fighter 2) was made game director just hired despite having no experience.

>>5753560
>games were always marketed to normalfags
Tell me more.

>>5753590
It's always strange to see zoomers who don't understand what that ad is trying to convey, repeatedly repost it.

>>5753610
Tell me more young one.

>>5753541
Devs got lazy ever since hard drives got bigger. They don’t compress anything properly, they include multiple language audio files, the graphics are so concerned with looking shiny that they dump dummy resources into these high res textures that still have a shit artstyle and make even modern cards run at or below 60fps, who knows how much content is left in but not used, and then there’s content yet to be unlocked by virtue of DLC but it’s on disc already wasting space. I’ve complained that game field are obnoxiously large before but people often disagree and say I’m just whining. I even have good internet and I can’t imagine what it’s like for someone with shit internet or even a 500gb SSD to play games today

>>5753623
Would you like me to explain the Q3 ad to you?

>>5753634
No need. I was actually alive when it was made.

>>5753637
Clearly you don't understand it if you think it somehow isn't advertising to normalfags. So would you like me to explain it to you? It's very simple.

>>5753646
No need when you're calling quake a "normalfag" game. Do feel free to throw more millennial labels on retro games though. Makes it easy to spot then.

>>5753695
I never said quake was a normalfag game. I said that advertisement that you posted was targeted to normalfags. This back and forth has grown exceedingly boring, either admit that you were wrong, or politely ask me to explain the ad to you.

>>5753695
>No need when you're calling quake a "normalfag" game
it's as mainstream as it gets. the PC version got straight 9-10 reviews everywhere.

do you think it was an obscure game directed at a niche group?
do you think playing it makes you a special snowflake?

>>5753704
>>5753706
>snowflake
Well at least you double down on the millennial speak.

>>5753735
most people who played quake at the time of its release were millennials, but whatever

>>5753358
Tetris is timeless, but it's more like the Communist regime stole it from the author to profit from it on its own.

>>5753472
Who gives a fuck about optional bullshit that compromises the game? Literally *avoid* the DLC and have the best experience.
I'd call you a sperg, but you're too fucking stupid to fit on the spectrum.

>Unlike today where it's CoD, FIFA, Madden, and GTA.
Those are fads, no matter how you put it.

>>5753706
So a game being normalfag or not depends on if it's good? You only play objectively shit games as to not be a normalfag?

>>5753752
Hating things that are popular is half of the posts on this board, which is why you have garbage threads like this, when it reality most of the shelves in the 90s were covered in shovelware like Home Alone on the SNES.

>>5753439
Not that guy, but no, those are all terrible games.

>>5753503
>Games were made by small teams of passionate nerds making a rad game they thought was cool, instead of a game today being made by legions of Corp slaves ticking off a checklist of mass appeal boxes that need to be in the game.
Your view of the old industry is hilariously romanticized.

The majority of all people who have ever made commercial games have always been people just treating it as a job.

>>5753771
Ironically, most of the best games such as those from Capcom, Konami, and the like were very professionally produced.

PC games were very often exactly like what he says though. Niche market, no big corporations.

>>5753768
convince me
you can't
because they're all good

>>5753779
PC was my preferred platform as a kid we had a rad PC in my house. I can’t begin to recount how much DOOM i played

>>5753768
The only questionable ones are the MMOs, you're just a faggot.

>>5753341
>just feels like it's much harder to come up with something completely unique,

That's inevitable though. When a medium is new the way video games were there's all kinds of experimenting just figuring out how to make things work.
.


>and if there is, it won't sell as much, then again, that's par for the course, a lot of the more experimental and weird retro games didn't exactly sell by a lot, even back then

You answered your own quandry. Sure the niche games won't sell as well, but that's always been the case. And if you like them it doesn't really matter. Also you never know how things are going to turn out. My favorite game as a kid was Rogue and for a long time I thought it was a one off weird game, but then one day I heard about Nethack and my mind was blown. But even though I thought it was awesome, most people looked at me sideways for wanting to play a weird Ascii game over Megaman or Zelda or whatever. But again it was cool because I enjoyed it and a few other things came along like Toejam and Shiren when I finally got emulating... But anyways fast forward now and Roguelikes are huge. So much that people complain about them. I admit, it feels a little vindicating. See also: Monster Hunter

But the point is, there's tons out there to play both new and old. If you worry about what's popular you'll just make yourself miserable. If you just look for what you'll enjoy and have fun with it there's always going to be something to play.

People are really defending indie games too much.

>>5753350
I would also kill for another Bushido Blade, but yeah that's a pretty good analogy. More people should play Budokan.

>>5753817
True, but there's enough good indie games that it's worth to not discard the entire idea of them.

>>5753541
>>5753630
We need John Carmack to school them all in optimisations and making fast gamus with high FPS.

>>5753472
>It was as you said people chasing fads. Unlike today where it's CoD, FIFA, Madden, and GTA.

It's all still the same. A new fad catches on, Minecrafting, mobas, fortnights, whatever other companies clammer on to make their own. Exactly the same as with platformers, shmups, beat em ups etc.
Things like FPS and sports games are simply continuing to be popular since they first popped up. It's all the same.

>>5753817
There are some awesome indie games. What I don't get is people focusing on how big the team was when they never do for old games. You don't see people ragging on Turrican.

>>5753837
There is something to be said for that, few game devs these days know much at all about optimization.

Modern software development tools - they make game development too easy, developers just shit out some variation of what their tools have. It's made them lazy. In the old days they would have to come up with everything in their imagination, experimenting using their mind's eye - it was a much more organic process.

>>5753832
I disagree

>>5753849
It’s actually disgusting how poorly optimized so many modern games are. So few games have much lower frame rates than they ever should because they load too much shit and render everything and do not take advantage of modern technology. They’re massive resource hogs because they’re lazy and don’t care. I remember running doom2016 on a shit PC still on high with a flawless frame rate and no stuttering

>>5753871
Lol

>>5753905
>remember running doom2016 on a shit PC still on high with a flawless frame rate and no stuttering

So you're just talking about games from the last couple of years?

>>5753735
>>5753759
>modern gamer confused as to why people hate modern games
Most be shitposting...
>>5753839
I think you're very ignorant or waering blinders about those games. They quite literally make up 75%+ of games sold. They aren't a fad. They are literally modern gaming.
>>5753749
>Those are fads, no matter how you put it.

Been "fads" going on decades now. Bout the dumbest opinion I've seen ITT is yours and that's saying something. Supported DLC and cancer like FIFA. Jesus help this board.

>>5753916
I think terrible optimization came about in full force in the late 2000s when PCs started to boom and consoles hit the 360/PS3 generation. I recall tons of games with not so great graphics still running like shit because the devs stack so many post processing effects and terrible rendering with these “super high end graphics engines”

>>5753934
Yes, I was clearly supporting those things in my post, you anencephalic niggerfaggot.

>>5753798
As the guy who posted the list I agree that the MMOs are debatable. But ultimately both of those games, in their classic form (EQ~1999-2001, WoW~2004) have some impressive qualities that hold up even today, despite the tendency to have timesink-laden, grindy gameplay. And of course they are historically important.

>>5753905
>>5753936
My favorite part is devs still refusing to optimize for more than 2 cores. And they say games should cost more.
>>5753937
You clearly were. Any game with DLC should not be supported. It should be openly mocked, vilified, and honestly illegal. Since most release broken with DLC day one. Saying "Just don't buy it" isn't an excuse. You're supporting that trash still.

>>5753819
It's really odd to me that never happened.
In addition to the depth of Bushido Blade's weapon mechanics and movesets, I always thought the clever innovation was to model the format after games like fencing and tennis (with a point system) rather than boxing/MMA (beat the shit out of the other guy until he falls unconscious). It seemed like such an obvious thing I figured other devs would realize you could build a dueling game around one-hit kills so long as you kept score the right way.

>>5753949
>And they say games should cost more
They do, it was just done in a sneaky way that the niggercattle don't notice. If they raised the sticker price of a $60 game to $65 to match a couple of years worth of inflation, consumers would throw a fit. But if they sell you that $60 game, and then a bunch of cut content for $40 and call it a season pass, the niggercattle are pre-ordering $100 games with a smile on their face.

>>5753985
I'd be fine with games costing $100 if they were actually good again.

>>5753749
>Tetris is timeless, but it's more like the Communist regime stole it from the author to profit from it on its own.
my point would be more that Tetris is a fluke, not the result of a healthy well-developed industry.
You could argue that the western videogame industry is unhealthy at present, but capitalism is also why it ever existed.

>>5753934
>They quite literally make up 75%+ of games sold. They aren't a fad. They are literally modern gaming.

My point was that they're obviously still popular for a reason. I don't play any of those and it's never been any sort of trouble for me. If things you don't like being popular actively stops you from looking for something you do like that's kinda sad.

>>5754081
Nice mental gymnastic bub. The paint was about market trends. Not what I like or don't like being popular.

>>5754085
The trend ad it's always been is that popular things sell well so they keep getting made. Starts as a fad, becomes a trend and then a standard. Nothing about that is surprising, unusual or bad. It's all working well.

>>5754103
Again that wasn't the point. Reread the post chain. Retro gens have no real market trend at least not like modern gens from 6thgen up.

>>5754103
how right you are

>>5754112
I have read it and disagree vehemently. The whole history of the game industry has been chasing tends and fads. It's all the same.

>>5754127
You're very ignorant about the subject then. There is nothing like the games that dominate today back in retro gens. No parallels at all to be made.

>>5754121
Yup! I'm sure you posted that ironically but they make games that many people buy and play for good reason. Hipster idiots just like to bitch about them because they hate everything not targeted at them. This thread in a nutshell.

>>5754131
>that many people buy and play for good reason
could you go into more detail on this?

>>5754129
Well then we dusagree on a fundamental level. But I remember when seemingly every othee game coming out was some other platformer I had zero interest in. I still have no complaints though, which is I think the real difference between us. >>5753815

>>5754132
Yeah. People like playing sports games, EA keeps making sports games. It works out well for both parties.

Was that confusing?

>>5754131
It's almost like market trends were established for modern video games that differ from retro games. Hmmm
>>5754136
There's no disagreement. Again you are extremely ignorant on the subject.
>But I remember when seemingly every othee game coming out was some other platformer I had zero interest in.
I like how you just proved my point. Nack then you had multiple games coming out. Today it's all CoD, FIFA, Madden, and GTA. They make up 75%+ of the market.

>>5754137
very confusing, yes. i don't understand why someone would purchase the same game over and over with different names.

>>5754139
There still are more games of more variery coming out now than ever before. And now I'm just starting to think you don't understand what trends are in the first place.

>>5754145
Lol

>>5754151
>There still are more games of more variery coming out now than ever before. And now I'm just starting to think you don't understand what trends are in the first place.
You were just giving me shit for being a hipster and now are saying I should look for obscure titles. There's little to no variety. It's the same old rinse and repeat shit. Generic indie games etc. All the shit that has been said ITT multiple times.

>>5754157
You're whining like an entitled baby that the game industry has the gal to make games that will sell well due to popularity. And when pointed out that you don't have to only play popular things (like some of us ALWAYS have) you still have a tantrum because you don't want to have to look for what you want, it should by default be what's most popular. It's pathetic, but also not my problem so yeah cry all you want. I have games to play.

>>5754175
I can't tell if you're on the spectrum or just doing some kind of crazy attempt at sliding the argument to something else. It went from marketing trends always being the same to it not to now me being entitled. Jesus.

>>5754183
I've always felt you're entitled because the implication of this has always been that you don't like the current trends. Anyways to recap, all video game history has been chasing the popular trends in the hopes of making a hit. Some trends have continued strong for a long time. This is all good.

>>5754196
>Anyways to recap, all video game history has been chasing the popular trends in the hopes of making a hit.
And that's just absolutely false. Retro games are littered with truly innovative and inventive titles that came out and sold like crazy and failed. Not at all with modern games where it's be CoD, FIFA, Madden, or GTA or don't matter on the sales chart. The top selling games were always changing gen by gen. Not with modern gens. 6th gen and onwards it's be CoD, FIFA, Madden, or GTA or don't matter on the sales chart.
Always some generic realistic FPS, your sports trash, and a GTA game or two. Modern gaming is objectively trash and there’s no argument against that except for if you like indieshit.

>>5754215
>Retro games are littered with truly innovative and inventive titles

So are modern games, even moreso if anything. You just discount everything not AAA because lol

>>5754217
>So are modern games, even moreso if anything.
Good joke.

>>5753949
>Any game with DLC should not be supported. It should be openly mocked, vilified, and honestly illegal.
Sorry for jumping into the thread but hopefully you recognize that there's theoretically legit DLC and blatant ripoff DLC.
Legit DLC is more along the lines of what was typically known as an "expansion" in retro terms. The Dark Souls DLC, for example, is an obvious expansion for a game that got really popular.
Something like Pathfinder: Kingmaker is a bit more questionable, but then RPGs are content-heavy games and have a history of selling expansion modules(eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DL_series).).

There are still good games being made today but they would be better if companies were willing to take more chances, try new things, and put out a dozen smaller games per year instead of 1-2 big name sequels. There's very little experimentation in the AA/AAA space these days.

>>5754229
The amount of legit DLC is such a minority in the DLC market it shouldn't even be mentioned. Like the retards ITT defending DMC's literal pay to win DLC.

>>5754217
>You just discount everything not AAA because lol
not him, but there's a difference between playing a popular, big-budget game that is also good, and playing a niche indie game with a small devoted following.

>>5754241
I just wish there was a better term for it because as someone who hasn't played any games with the shit kind of DLC I really don't know much of a plague it is.

>>5754276
It's expected for any mainstream game to cost $40-$60 for the basic version and then another $30-$50 for a season pass each year just to play it. That's not counting cosmetics. It only gets worse from there, that's the base.

Guarantee people shitting on "modern games" would think their favorite games were garbage if they came out today because its not EA or Activision or something. As if enormous publishers like that even existed in the 90s or as if you needed the budget of a movie to make a fun game.

>>5754291
You grew up in that cancer. The concept of a AAA dev team putting out something interesting and unique is alien to you. The idea then that they would offer extra content for free later would blow your mind probably. But hey I just hate modern games because w/e shit reason you come up with next.

>>5748814
>technological limitations
and this is what made it fun. right now ps4 can do everything xbox can do, but just at a lower resolution/framerate. next power step, both consoles will be able to do raytracing. it's fucking boring

>>5754294
>The idea then that they would offer extra content for free later would blow your mind probably

They offered it for $39.99 extra. It was called an expansion pack.

Activision, Epic Games, and EA were not the companies they are today in the 90s and "AAA" (not a term used) releases were not on the same scale.

>>5754331
>They offered it for $39.99 extra. It was called an expansion pack.
Christmas NiGHTS was free in magazines, some shows, and as a pack in with the Japanese consoles.
>Activision, Epic Games, and EA were not the companies they are today in the 90s and "AAA" (not a term used) releases were not on the same scale.
So you're saying they're shit?

>>5754271
>>5754217
There's also the issue of big soulless money-extractor companies buying and ruining developers, brands, and franchises. Even if this wasn't structurally different, the fact is that in terms of raw numbers there are more ruined devs and franchises now than there was 20 years ago.

>>5754339
Of course they're shit, that's what everyone has been saying this whole thread. Stop pretending you have to buy video games from these companies in order to enjoy and play video games. They just sell 60 mobile style microtransaction vendors.

You know that the board definition is just arbitrary (Dreamcast shouldn't in if PS2 isn't) and most people didn't stop playing video games on Dec 31, 1999.

>>5754346
They represent modern gaming. Just because you don't buy them doesn't change that. And my point about everything else being trash or indietrash is still there.

No 6th gen is when it went down hill and anyone who's really passionate about the history knows that. And if for some reason you still want to debate that I have zero respect for an idiot trying to tell me Master Cheif is retro.

>>5754365
What "represents" something is subjective. I never played a Castlevania or Contra game in the entirety of the 90s, neither did any of my close friends. Some people think those are iconic.

I'm here to talk about old games, but since this is a shitty meta thread, I don't really care. Imagine thinking that the 6th gen was "downhill" when the 5th gen existed. Metal Gear Solid 2 and Twisted Metal Black are just MGS 1 and Twisted Metal but without embarrassingly bad graphics. Its all subjective. I thought the Playstation was garbage compared to the SNES. The graphics were awful, the games chugged along, and the game design was often atrocious. But because I'm not a faggot, I found great games during the 5th gen to play, mostly on PC.

>>5754224
It's not a joke though, or even an opinion. It's an objective fact.

>>5754271
While I wouldn't disagree with that, is there anything bad about either scenario?

>>5754378
>>5754378
>I never played a Castlevania or Contra game in the entirety of the 90s, neither did any of my close friends. Some people think those are iconic.
You're a shallow person and not someone who's very good at understanding history in context. You think I played every game? No. I'm not an idiot and can understand that a game I never played while it was relevant like Topgun is still important. My opinion doesn't matter in the context that it was an extremely popular game in America and so represents the NES. But my opinion of the game itself is not that positive. It’s called looking at it objectively which you and so many of the 6th gen babies fail at.

6th gen has a lot of problem. Most notably it established online subscriptions and DLC. Before were failed attempts and streaming services for a select amount of games to download that changed periodically. Like SEGA Channel. The online FPS archetype we know today was made with HALO2. Paid subscription, DLC, and very early patches.
>>5754395
I'll give you that the who ever implemented the cash shop (probably steam) was great. That was by far the single most innovative feature modern gaming has seen.

>>5748809
SOUL

Why are GTA, COD and Madden being mentioned?

The latest GTA game was released in 2013, COD just doesn't seem to be as big and Madden is just a sports franchise that does sell for lack of alternative and not much else.

If anything, i thought you would mention Assassins Creed, the Soulsborne games, Pokemon, God Of War and such.

Hell, games like Dragon Ball FighterZ, a 2D fighting game sold more than one of the latest COD games, and the one that sold the most last year still got beaten by Kirby:Star Allies, Zelda, Mario Tennis, Spider-Man for the PS4 and Monster Hunter:World.

Again, there was something like three Call Of Duty games last year because Activision, and all of them sold less than Monster Hunter or Far Cry 5!

>>5754418
Again those games represent over 75% of the total games sold.

>>5754217
>>5754395
Today we have less genres (just look at how many died out) more streamlined games with fewer interesting game mechanics. And every year it seems to become even more staler.

>>5752096
Lool u have smb3 twice ree

>>5754436
I imagine genres died out because less people were buying them, meaning that gamers a few generations ago are to blame for stopping to care about them as much.

Also, a lot of genres are still alive, shumps still get new games like BLUE REVOLVER, beat'em ups still have new games like Fight N'Rage, platformers are obviously not dead, even 3D platformers are coming back, Total War still exists keeping RTS alive, arcade racers...i will admit that there aren't that many like the recent game Slipstream but i am not looking for those.

Even the old style of FPS games with bigger maps, secrets and all are coming back without having to be arena shooters like Serious Sam or roguelites, i mean, DUSK is a game that exists, so is AMID EVIL and Ion Fury seems like it will come out soon.

Sure, they aren't being made with the biggest budgets aside from Total War, but that's because, again, a lot of people stopped playing or buying games in those genres.

>>5754453
>I imagine genres died out because less people were buying them, meaning that gamers a few generations ago are to blame for stopping to care about them as much.
Not at all. Maybe actually look at sales figures. Simply got to mainstream and FPSes made too much money. Devs went the easy shit route in making FPSes.

>>5748809
PErsonally for me its cos theres no SIGN IN TO YOUR PROFILE or SELECT A HARD DRIVE TO SAVE or YOU CANNOT PROCEED WITHOUT A LIVE CONNECTION etc. i just cant be fcueked with that stuff, I want to SLAM in a cart, GRAB A 'TROLLER and go thru a game.

>>5754418
>the Soulsborne games
not him but part of Dark Souls' popularity was that it was a modern game with /vr/-era design sensibilities. (single-player focus, no cutscene bloat, no hand-holding, creative level design focused on gameplay, consistent yet approachable challenge, and so on)

>>5754458
i forgot to add, sorry to samefag but also, in no partiuclar order :
>Everything is an FPS / otherwise very violent and it's just tedious after a while, I don't want all my media consumption to be violence
>Politically Correct bullshit ruining games
>Games are for kids and teens with time on their hands anyway, im getting too old for this shit and I just want to play what I am used to
>A bit of rose tinted glasses
>Older games had more replay value; modern games are very throwaway (This also goes for films, furniture, hardware, life in general now is disposable/consumerist. Stuff used to last)
>etc

>>5754458
>i just cant be fcueked with that stuff, I want to SLAM in a cart, GRAB A 'TROLLER and go thru a game.
hell yeah

>>5754458
>>5754467

Unironically based.

>>5754129
No shit, because it was 40 years ago, with untold magnitudes more possibilities today, and the benefit of hindsight.

>>5754241
Nobody is defending that DLC, you have brain damage.

>>5754484
You're an absolute fuckhead and argueing in absolutes. Also here
>>5751396
>>5752031
>>5752013
>>5752007
>>5751619
Just quickly going down the thread. Retards supporting DLC garabge games.

>>5754241
yeah, retro versions of DLC are stuff like Super and Alpha versions of Street Fighter, and the Starcraft brood war expansion pak. Or the Separate Ways mission added into the PS2 version of Resi 4.

DLC is just money spinning and lets face it its mostly kids spending their parents dough. I don't really think theres a way you can argue in favor of it.

>>5754493
At best you can say expansion packs for retro "DLC". Otherwise it was physical releases and community created content. There was a time where if you wanted a new map you didn't buy a map pack. You went an downloaded a community made map. DLC shit is not part of retro gaming.

>>5754497
yeah i get you. im just saying the concept of "postscripts" or whatever being added into a game after its release is not new, so the argument "Well it expands on the game..." is irrelevant because it's always existed, in one form or another.

Similar to books : First of all they release the hardback, then the paperback comes out a few months later, usually Fully Revised And Updated Edition, or whatever. That's standard practice in many fields.

Charging for each and every microinteraction , even down to new costumes and other gimmicks is just fleecing.
I suppose the fact lots of games are pirated now is the reason they need to recoup the money somehow, but its getting out of hand and paying for DLC is becoming a culture in and of itself, as seen with the "Lootbox" controversy.

Besides i don't agree with pirating games (Or music) and i don't do it myself, so to me anyway its an irrelevant argument.

>>5749303
i haven't drank the indie games Kool-Aid. dont get me wrong, im not an AAA-guy. but my mate keeps showing me new indie games he gets on his PS4, and they're virtually all 2D Mario clones with some gimmick added in (you have a ball and chain round your ankle / you can flip upside down / you have some other power or ability with a world created to exploit that ability) and they get very samey and boring after a very short amount of time (e.g., 10 minutes).

Sorry, not for me.

A lot of those gimmicks were around back in the day, same goes for platformers or clones, but i can't think of many Mario clones actually, i can think of Sonic clones like Freedom Planet or Spark The Jester, but they also do their own thing.

Then again, i don't own a PS4, so maybe the indie platformers there are strangely Mario like?

I mean, i remember games like Metal Storm on the NES where you could flip upside down and such, but that wasn't a Mario clone in any way unless being a platformer automatically means being a Mario clone?

As for indie games, a lot of people have mentioned games that aren't platformers and nothing like Mario already so no need to point out more indie games.

The thing I hate is that everything that isn't low budget or indie wants you to make an account now. Also, I know that Steam is supposed to alleviate all of this, but I also hate having every single game I own on PC having to be tied to some stupid launcher. So basically I'm impossible to please and GOG is the only good platform.

>>5754515
I agree with this for the most part, except that I'd also add that the music is never as good, they never look as good as the best 8 and 16-bit games, and the writing is usually about 50 times as obnoxious and plentiful.

>>5754550
Well fair play to people who want to make indie games. i just find them to be boring. And in a nutshell, "2D Mario clones" gets at what i'm saying but they're not all platformers. Either way, i'm between a rock and hard place with modern gaming because i hate AAA output and havent played a AAA game since maybe the Bioshock series, or Resident Evil 6, and i'm not an indie games guy. >>5754556 i also agree with this guy down here, because the music, menu layout, HUD, and general "look and charm" or whatever of a retro game like let's say Mario or Banjo or something, is much higher quality than a 2010s indie offering.
For me personally music is a CORE part of a gaming experience which is yet another reason i Prefer retro - the music was UNQUESTIONABLY better.

>>5754436
>Today we have less genres

No. We do not. There are more, but because of that some old ones are less dominant. Again, nothing about that is bad.

>>5754489
There's a difference between saying "Yes, you should buy hundreds of dollars of DLC" and saying "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater; the game is good if you *ignore the DLC*."

>>5754619
>it's the "I don't buy it and I like the game" cancer again
Gee I wonder how we got into this mess?

>>5754664
I enjoyed the game, I didn't buy anything but the base game, and I will not buy any of the DLC, how is it functionally different as an experience from if the game never had them to begin with?

>>5754676
You're supporting a game with DLC. Are you joking? The game itself was designed for DLC. Like talking to alcoholics with you guys but autistic.

>>5754612
I do get you, a lot of indie developers don't have the skills to do something truly great, though i find that aside from menu layout and the HUD just not being distinctive generally, i do think UI has vastly improved, particularly in computer gaming.

Dear God, playing a computer game in the early 90's and one made nowadays tends to be a drastically different experience in terms of controls and menus, even moreso if we are talking about RPG's.

But yeah, the HUD and such do feel generic, though there are those games that stand out from the crowd and that i really end up loving, for example, i sincerely think Cuphead is more charming than 90% of old games, Dropsy is pratically an old LucasArts game and has the charm, Oxygen Not Included is the rare kind of survival/simulation game that actually has charm and character to it rather than being a Terraria clone with characters that don't express anything.

It's just that sadly not all indie developers care or are talented enough, as for music, i do think soundtracks are improving once more, and i can think of some indie games with great music, Dropsy which i mentioned, is one of them, Crypt Of The Necrodancer has a great soundtrack and i can't forget to mention Transistor whose soundtrack is easily the best thing about the game.

Though yeah, a lot of indie games aren't as good as the classics, for example, Ghosts N' Goblins, hell, the whole franchise, is one that i like even if incredibly hard, and i would love more games like them, and then i find Cursed Castilla...which was actually pretty good and had a good soundtrack as well, maybe not the best game ever, but it was a damn pleasant suprise, and then i find Battle Princess Madelyn which is also inspired by the same series and looks great on screenshots and...i couldn't even finish it, not for being too hard, it just wasn't that great a game and it just made me want to play Capcom's games instead.

>>5754683
The game was playable.
The game was fun.
At no point did it feel necessary to buy DLC, and at no point did I do so.
If the game forced me to buy DLC, then yeah, I could see there being an outrage, but it didn't, so I am indifferent to its presence.

Would you discard Super Mario Bros. 3 if in some hypothetical scenario it had some manner of pay2win functionality to it, even if the game otherwise played and functioned exactly as we know it?

>>5754725
Yes if SMB3 was modern trash with patches, DLC, and cosmeticS it would be a trash game. That goes without saying. The game would play differently. You could just buy power ups.

>>5754726
That wasn't what I was asking.

>Super Mario Bros. 3
>gameplay is unchanged
>all the levels are the same
>you could literally play it like we have always played it
... except it also had an optional function for cheats and powerups if you paid Nintendo money.
You would consider it a bad videogame and insist people should never have played it? Again, I am not saying these would be good additions, they aren't, I'm saying if it doesn't actually affect what the base game is, why would you let it get in your way?

>>5754726
>You could just buy power ups.
Nothing makes you. Are you unable to control and restrain yourself?

>>5754735
How young are you? That would make the game genie pointless. How is this not changing the game and experience of it? You're trying really hard to make a shit point because it's a shit point. DLC is trash as is any game that pushes it like DMC and that is an absolute.

>>5754737
If you want to support cancer modern games go ahead. It's not like you're in the minority.

>>5754740
27

>That would make the game genie pointless
The Game Genie was a third party accessory that Nintendo vehemently tried to stop, trying to sue the maker out of existence until courts had to tell them to stop.

>How is this not changing the game and experience of it?
Because you would have to go out of your way to do so, and only a fucking idiot would actually pay money for it.
Further it would be like arguing a game wouldn't be challenging if cheat codes existed, as if you were somehow mandated to use them because they existed.

Do your wranglers have to wrestle you down and stop you from making constant purchases when you see an advertisement?

>>5754742
You think you're being principled, when you're in actuality a fucking idiot.

>>5754753
Again guy you have a shit argument. If you want to buy DLC trash go for it. Don't be upset that I don't.

>>5754758
I'm not buying the DLC, how do you struggle to comprehend this?

>>5754761
Because you have arbitrary bullshit to defend your purchase.

>>5754776
How is it arbitrary?

>>5754790
You look at them and make a decision to buy them or not based off who knows what? Aka an arbitrary decision.

>>5754740
I'm not that guy. I'm 40 and you're just being retarded. His logic is clear and he's blowing you the fuck out. All you have is "DLC BAD" like a broken record.

If you weren't dumb and lazy you'd make an actual case about the game in question (using specific details) that it is not worth the purchase price. You'd argue that the game is clearly incomplete without the DLC, and that anon is clearly playing a gimped version of the game that should feel as if it's missing content.

I don't even know what game you fags are talking about but based on the quality of the arguments and logic, you are making critics of DLC look like complete fucking retards.

>>5754801
That's all I need is DLC is bad retard. Holy shit this board is going down.

>>5754808
>That's all I need

>>5754812
If you want to support DLC cancer go for it.

>>5754795
>You look at them and make a decision to buy them or not based off who knows what?
That it looks like a game that is fun and that I would enjoy playing?

Someone at the publishing department wishing to make money out of retards looks bad, and I would insist they wouldn't, but if the core game itself is actually good, that is what matters, I'm not the guy they're shaking down for extra money.
There is nothing arbitrary about that, in fact: >>5754808 is far more arbitrary because you just seem to insist that DLC is bad for existing as a concept at all.

>>5754813
a little horse armor never hurt anyone

>>5754818
DLC is bad and the fact you're supporting the companies that publish this trash is pathetic.
>But I like it
Go fuck yourself. You are cancer.

>>5754825
I pirated that horse armor back in the day, then I realized I didn't actually bother with the horses and there's better mods for free anyway.

>>5754826
>DLC is bad
Elaborate on your rationale. Not just "cancer cancer cancer", explain what makes the notion of being able to download official content, for money or for free, intrinsically a bad thing?

>>5754831
It has lead to the release broke never fix it anyway trend
Stripped games + Season pass model
Pay to win
Forced to buy from the shop or put in a unfair amount of work to get something
Completely killed community created content

That fact this needs to be said is pathetic. Why are you here?

>>5749223
content explosion too. I'm not sure who started that. Maybe it was the rise of WoW on PC and gta clones on consoles. The grindy, open world, "you'll never finish this" gameplay has just gotten out of hand.

>>5754843
>It has lead to the release broke never fix it anyway trend
Companies released games broken and didn't fix them in the past either.
There's lots of old games which have serious bugs, some to the point that they aren't actually beatable without you applying some exploit or cheat, or applying a community made fix.
Some of these are games which are otherwise decent or even good.

>Stripped games + Season pass model
That happens, but that's also why I don't buy games from EA or play flavor of the month multiplayer games.

>Pay to win
Unless the game is broken or artificially made worse to incentivize it, it's just cheat codes that you're being charged money for, which I don't favor, but if I'm not going to be cheating to deprive myself of the actual gameplay, or money, so it's not affecting me.

>Forced to buy from the shop or put in a unfair amount of work to get something
Hasn't been my experience. Did you know that there's more to modern videogames than nickle-n-dime-athon mobile games from China?

>Completely killed community created content
I'll concede this to a point, I have actually seen some community content being killed, the stupid skins you can buy for CSGO has completely killed the community that used to make skins for CSS and CS 1.6, there used to be thousands of skins, models, and whatevers for those games, but it's crickets for the new one.

That said, I think that games not being easily moddable is what does kill community content output, and I will actually give points to Bethesda for this, they allow you to make mods for their games. They aren't a perfect company, in fact I feel I just don't like their games anymore, but even if I don't like FO4, and even if I think Skyrim fell very short, those games did let you mod them, even having official tools available, and going so far as to allow mods on the console versions.
You can say these games are shit, and to a point I will agree, but there is a community that actually does create content.

>>5754854
Sandboxes have reached the point of saturation I feel, I used to be quite fond of them, but at this point I look at new ones and they look not just daunting, but they look too similar, like they're not doing anything different anymore.
I liked Far Cry 3 as a game, but then Ubisoft whittled all their games down to the point that apparently they just do all of their games by that one formula, but worse.

I never played Assassins Creed, but apparently they changed it so it's more like Far Cry now, and that stupid Watchdogs game followed that same formula too, while the actual Far Cry games have been continuously diluted and dumbed down.

>>5754871
>Companies released games broken and didn't fix them in the past either.
That was really rare.

DLC has gotten to the point where I will not support games with it.

>>5754881
I honestly got bored of them when GTA San Andreas came out. Got too big and too empty at that point.

>>5748809
nostolgia glasses and retro cred.

>>5754886
If you say so. I'll avoid something that looks like it won't be fun to play, or like it will require me to spend extra money to actually enjoy it, but if the game can just be played by itself and looks good, I won't prevent myself. All I want is the gameplay itself.

The way I see it, if I'm not buying bad DLC in itself, then they are not profiting on that from me, then I'm not supporting that extent of the business. If they make me, I won't buy it.

>>5754890
I didn't play just whichever happened to come out next, and played lots of other stuff inbetween (San Andreas was the last GTA I actually played, GTA4 didn't look fun to me), so maybe I wasn't fatigued enough.

>>5754890
A lot of them certainly stretch themselves thin.
San Andreas was an incredibly novel game to me at the time, but I didn't get very far in it because I couldn't get past those stupid dancing missions, so eventually I got bored of it.

>>5754808
>That's all I need is DLC is bad retard.
>Holy shit this board is going down.
You're the one bringing it down motherfucker by not being able to defend your point against a fucking 90s baby.

>>5754813
You can start by not making it look like everyone who hates DLC is a blithering idiot who can't follow a simple argument.

>>5754904
>>5754913
You're on the wrong board.

>>5754943
No, that would be you. We're supposed to hold a higher standard than /v/.

>>5754706
>I do get you, a lot of indie developers don't have the skills to do something truly great


Entitled little turd

>>5754453
I'd say that the development costs raising so high is another cause of some genres dissapearing.

We have to remember that Capcom, for instance, released a lot of different kind of games in the 80s or 90s: Shumps, beat 'em ups, puzzle games, RPGs, quiz games, platformers, fighting games, etc. And let's not forget Sega too. Nowadays, indies keep working hard to maintain some genres alive, but it just not the same. A simple shoot 'em up or platformer could take 5 years to develop because indies don't have the time and the money of a big publisher.

Nowadays, what are doing companies like Capcom, Sega or Tecmo? They are releasing pretty much 3D beat 'em ups or 3D open world games. That's it. And if they want to release some minor or weirder game, they outsource it to another company.

>>5755324
>And if they want to release some minor or weirder game, they outsource it to another company
Sometimes that turns out pretty alright. Sometimes.

>>5748809
Because games in this day and age are made by clueless idiots paid for by suits.

>>5755375
Most games back in the day were made by clueless idiots, usually paid for by suits.
Look at most movie license games for the NES, a few of them are actually REALLY good, but most are substandard and just rushed out to make a quick buck.

>>5754515
Seriously, play better indie games. I've never played a single one that is as you describe.

>>5754515
Maybe your friend just has really shit taste?

not sure what happened, but games nowadays have too many tutorials. they hold your hand and it gets tedious sometimes.

I like some modern games though, I'm partial to Platinum Games and the recent fighting games from old companies that have come out like SamSho and KOF.

games today are still good though.

>>5755490
>games nowadays have too many tutorials.
Even old skool telnet MMOs had tutorials. it depends on the complexity of the game. Though some devs will just pint at their manual and expect you to read everything before playing.

>>5754943
Fuck off. DLC can be just fine.

>>5755490
Tutorials felt more of a nuisance 10 years ago than today, but yes, they can be an annoyance as they can sometimes be unskippable.
A decent way to get around it is highlights when certain actions are possible (press X to climb) which I think is fine but apparently some people think that's mankind's greatest sin.
You should probably be able to toggle their visibility I guess.

I think there is some gradual increase in appreciation for being able to just pick a game up and play it basically instantly, but not enough.

>M.A.G. on PS3 and Chromehounds on Xbox 360.
Two games that were fun and had a loyal fanbase, right up until the servers were shut down. Now the games are console exclusive drink coasters with protective storage cases.
Now think about how many games you have that depend on a server somewhere that is just barely profitable enough to keep the lights on. Or console.

Older machines had planned obsolescence as a reality of progress, they endure in spite of this.
Modern consoles have planned obsolescence built in right in their short-sighted, ultra-paranoid security firmware that will inevitably brick the the plastic fuck once E.T. can no longer phone home.
Look at the Wii. The servers shut down and everybody starts looking up youtube tutorials on how to jail break it to salvage the functionality it once had. And this is from Nintendo, who has as part of it's design philosophy, "Can it survive being yanked off the 5-foot table onto the floor while running?" As opposed to Microsoft who spent TWO WHOLE YEARS in denial that their cancer-ridden white PEECEE would inevitably piss itself and die because they couldn't be bothered to run a proper series of quality testing before rushing it's launch.

>>5755707
Now consider the Atari 2600. A machine so basic a one-armed, cross-eyed, retard with a five-dollar soldering iron and an e-bay parts kit can repair it.

Or the Gameboy, that has an example in a museum that survived being HIT BY A SCUD MISSLE and, last I heard, is still running

>>5755680
I just want the game to let me experiment. And if I really want to let me read the manual when I'm taking a shit.

>>5755707
>Now think about how many games you have that depend on a server somewhere that is just barely profitable enough to keep the lights on.
I think this is one of the more alarming trends of modern vidya.

Look at the Google Stadia, that's going to be the entire console. What happens if Google decides to stop supporting the Stadia wholly, or if they go bankrupt? The games you paid for are null and void. Hell, what if your connection goes down, or you live somewhere with a weak connection like somewhere rural, you're not playing the game you paid for, even if it's singleplayer.
Fundamentally the games you play NEED to be on your physical media, either on disc or cartridge, or downloaded onto your system's harddrive.
I can understand that an MMO can't run forever and has serverside stuff, but what a good developer does when they can't support an MMO anymore is to give the fans the tools to be able to run their own server.

>>5755715
Yeah. Atari is dead and gone, but you can still just put an old cartridge in an old 2600 and it'll run. If it doesn't, it'll probably be easy to fix, especially since it used mostly off the shelf parts to begin with, and is a primitive machine.
More advanced systems obviously makes this a more difficult proposition, but I think that eventually we need to reach a point where things plateau, and eventually the resources and knowhow of how to work with and maintain later systems has to develop. 3D printing may end up being quite crucial in this in the future.

>>5755718
I agree with that.

>>5748809
>Why are Retro games so much better than Modern games?

They are exactly as good/bad as modern games.

>>5755736
That chart needs some tweaking, people do remember some mediocre stuff too, to an extent.

>>5755742
But the principle makes sense?

>>5754895
Not many modern games live up to the quality of arcade games. The console/PC mediums allow for a lot more bloat, progression, save-stating, cinematics, dialogue, and generally things that slow gameplay down dramatically. Not to mention the old-school difficulty is usually not there by default. The standard "hard game" today is Dark Souls which isn't hard by retro standards at all.
So I understand why people used to playing action games at the arcades feel disappointed with modern gaming in general. It's really not tailored to that crowd anymore.

>>5748809
Diversity, modern games on the three big consoles are walking simulators or First Person shooties

>>5755745
Yes. Nobody remembers the bad or blaisé, hell, most mediocre stuff is forgotten (though just being very slightly above average can make something memorable enough to some).
Unless it was something that was legendarily shitty, it'll likely be forgotten too.

Sometimes something pretty good slips under the radar though, and might be more appreciated in the future than back in its day.

>>5755759
There was some of that in the years of olde, in that near everything used to be a sidescroller once, but yeah, genres are not as diverse these days.
This is why I want the AAA industry to deflate a bit, not entirely, but enough that they're willing to throw some money at the occasional AA or A project that isn't just like their biggest trend chasers.

>>5755736
this happens but just because it happens doesn't mean it's always the explanation and only brainlets post shit like this thinking that it adds to the discussion.

>>5755759
Did somebody say...

SPACE SHOOTER?

>>5755745
it's also subject to confirmation bias itself, though. The fact is that when people talk about modern "bad games," popular titles are often the subject of discussion. Meanwhile, if you want to dig up trash NES games, chances are nobody at the time would have heard of any of this shit much less played it. Here's a list some guy made in the 2000s of 20 worst NES games. The only games on the list I'd even heard of were 18, 14, and 2. And of those, Heroes of the Lance (2) was the only one I'd actually played. It's not that I played bad games and forgot about them. Nobody played these fucking games. Not the way they people play EA garbage now.

Number 20: Athena
Number 19: Bible Adventures
Number 18: Super Pitfall
Number 17: Hudson Hawk
Number 16: Renegade
Number 15: Chubby Cherub
Number 14: Mighty Bomb Jack
Number 13: M.U.S.C.L.E.
Number 12: Where's Waldo
Number 11: Total Recall
Number 10: Fist of the North Star
Number 09: The Legend of Kage
Number 08: Muppet Adventure
Number 07: Bad Street Brawler
Number 06: Barbie
Number 05: Gilligan's Island
Number 04: Tag Team Pro Wrestling
Number 03: X-Men
Number 02: Heroes of the Lance
Number 01: Deadly Towers

>>5755707
>And this is from Nintendo, who has as part of it's design philosophy, "Can it survive being yanked off the 5-foot table onto the floor while running?"
that was classic nintendo. nu-nintendo is responsible for the cheap shitty joycons, wiiconnect24 burning out the wii's gpu, the 3ds circle pad that would fall apart from normal use, etc.

>>5755803
Remember that the guts in stuff like the NES and the Gameboy was far more primitive and far less delicate.

Compare an axe to a chainsaw, if a chainsaw falls out of a truck on the highway, it might break something and stop working, but if an axe falls out of a truck on the highway (and let's assume it doesn't lead to some sort of Final Destination scenario), at worst you might chip or mar the edge, or the handle *maybe* splits or shatters, in which case putting the head on a new handle (and reprofiling it) would be trivial.

>>5755750
>The standard "hard game" today is Dark Souls which isn't hard by retro standards at all.
It is slightly different though. You can call it bloat if you want but arcade games often had very steep difficulty curves, where they might let you play through 50% of the first level before buttfucking you. The curve might be gentle after that but the idea was to make sure that only experienced talent or pay2win players could monopolize time at the controls.
Console games initially just made this curve a bit more gentle, gradually ramping up difficulty over several levels rather than just cranking it up right away. Dark Souls is like that. A few of the bosses are legitimately difficult. Maybe not as hard as the most autistic shmup ever made but casuals aren't killing bosses like O&S and Kalameet without help.

>>5755803
>the 3ds circle pad that would fall apart from normal use
There's that though, some of the build quality isn't always quite as nice with Nintendo anymore.

I've not broken my circle pad yet, but the dpad on my 3DS just doesn't feel as good as previous Nintendo dpads.

>>5748871
No they won't because the servers will be shut down and fortnite as it is today will be unplayable.

>>5755805
the real difference is that nintendo moved their manufacturing from japan to china at some point. the difference in build quality speaks for itself.

>>5755736
the ratio of good has become very small, bad has become very big as well as mediocore.

>>5755830
More than that, they probably outright elected to make it cheaper.
Chinese manufacturing can be alright, sometimes even pretty good, IF it's by one of the larger manufacturing concerns, which generally will be the ones that gets the most important customers such as Nintendo.

The real horrible garbage often comes from the small companies, because Chinese law basically enables fraudsters to set up fly by night operations, which even if they get successfully sued for contract breaches and go out of business, result in more or less a slap on the wrist for the owners, who can then go on to do it all over again, making great profits.
Dealing with companies like these, often you will find out that they cut corners you didn't ask to, "to save you money", or that they lied about some material standards.

Nintendo probably got a deal with a proper manufacturing concern, but the specifications they provided were calculated to save money, and it's a shame. I'd gladly pay some more money for better build quality, at the very least on things like controllers.

>>5755841
You're kind of right, because there's just far more games being made these days, and most games are just not great by default.

They were gsmes. Not interactive movies

>>5755857
>because there's just far more games being made these days
I really don't think that this is true, unless you count homebrew, which no one ever does because who cares about some guy's hobby project any more than some mail-order Spectrum cassette.

>>5755898
More games are being made though, the industry is very huge today. The ratio of actually talented people developing games hasn't kept up accordingly though, and often their efforts can be diluted by working at giant teams with "too many cooks", so to say.

>>5755889
some of them were interactive movies.

>>5755915
You just had to use one of the good examples.
Interactive movies were an outright plague in the 90s.

>>5754951
Some massive irony to say that while supporting modern DLC practices.

>>5755736
Yes, every era in every medium, no matter how drastic the shift in philosophies and technology, is exactly equally as good as the next. The concept of a golden age is purely fantasy.

You fucking idiot. Look at the relative quality of literature when it's cut up into 10, 20, 50 or 100 year segments, and that's a medium that hasn't been as heavily influenced by technology as video games. Maybe you haven't noticed, but Hemingway and Joyce aren't currently writing. As a result of when certain talented artists were in their prime, or as a result of movements, or of markets, there are periods of total shit, periods of pure gold, and everything in between.

P.S. post-PS2 has not been nearly as good--for almost every type of game--as pre-PS2. Simulators are usually better now than they were... yay.

>>5755736
>>5755742
>>5755774
>>5755841
>>5755939
Do tell me how CoD is a good game. You know one of the top selling games for past few gens. Terrible and ignorant argument you got there.

>>5754895
>aged

>>5748809
Passion
Consumers didn't know what they liked, marketing (or lack thereof) was everything.
Games still required a studio to make, but each release wasn't profitable enough to warrant fuckhuge teams, so every game had a team of like 10 people throwing shit at the wall to see what stuck. They also weren't designed by focus groups.
Games came out like gangbusters Shotgun theory, if that's the phrase.

I don't know. I like games from every era, but retro stuff just has a greater appeal to me. I feel like the games "respect" me more as a player than as a consumer. I do think people who only play retro stuff are weird though, modern classics like Gravity Rush or Demon's Souls are what I'd include in a the "video game canon" if that were a thing.

>>5748915
>hipsters
is it 2012? The modern phrase for poser is "faggot."

>>5755951
>I feel like the games "respect" me more as a player than as a consumer.
And as a competent human being capable of patience, dexterity, and of figuring shit out on his own; also someone who doesn't need to constantly be reminded of how awesome he is.

One reason I believe is that games nowadays don't look like games anymore. Pixels on old games are almost like brush strokes on an old painting (it's hard to imagine a great painting without them).
Nowadays games either look like real life, or an anime.

>>5755937
Being for the concept of DLC =/= approving of predatory practices.
>inb4 they're the same thing durr hurr

>>5755937
>supporting modern DLC practices
go away binary-brain.
There's only one guy supporting DLC the rest are telling you to stop being a fucking tard.

>>5755946
>people remember the mediocre too
CoD is sometimes aggressively mediocre on a good day, which is enough to be memorable to some.

>>5752531
Take a shower
Hit the weights
Have sex
Get a clue

>>5755939
Sure you can rage on like the fedora tipper you've exposed yourself to be, or you can accept that the most simple explanation is usually the right one.
It's pure nostalgia.

>>5755951
One thing I will say is that many AAA games softball their players too much, not enough of them offer a real good challenge.

Thankfully, games like Dark Souls (though by no means an exceptionally hard series), has opened younger people's eyes to the idea that challenge can be enjoyed, so the notion is not forgotten.

>>5755986
You know Socialists don't shower.

>>5755976
Interesting take. Not one I agree with, but I see the rationale, as I prefer the crunchy look of pixels.

There's a bunch of reasons why I hate modern gaming:
>3D worlds where you spend 40 minutes walking from point A to point B
>QTEs, enough said
>30 minute unskippable cutscenes where you watching the game like it's a fucking movie
I would play the Tiny Toons SMB3 ripoff on NES over most modern games.

>>5755951
>They also weren't designed by focus groups.
doubt.jpg
Sonic the Hedgehog was 100% scientifically optimized coolness based on then-current market research.

>>5755994
>Sonic the Hedgehog was 100% scientifically optimized coolness based on then-current market research.
The character (as a Mascot) was, but the GAME and the gameplay itself wasn't.

>>5755920
yeah, people try to blame sony for the whole "movie games" trend, but the obsession with "cinematic experiences" started on pc in the '90s with "games" like wing commander, the 7th guest, phantasmagoria and star wars rebel assault. that fad is the reason why western gaming is full of hacks who wish they were making movies instead.

>>5755992
>>5755976
well I think the most recent trend is the "plastic toy" look like Fortnite and Overwatch.

>>5756010
It's called stylized artwork you cretin. You know, the only thing that keeps 3D from aging like milk.

>>5755987
I gave you the most simple explanation and you're still too dumb to understand it.

Here's a two-worder for you: recency bias. Or is one word your limit?

>>5756036
The only thing that keeps 3D artwork from "aging" is being good artwork, you human anal bead.

>>5756041
Wrong. When a 3D game attempts a realistic aesthetic, even if it looks great, it will only look great at that specific point in time as the standards for realistic 3D constantly march forward. When a 3D game pulls off a heavily stylized aesthetic, it will look good forever.

>>5755939
>.S. post-PS2 has not been nearly as good--for almost every type of game--as pre-PS2.

I disagree with this pretty strongly.

>>5756010
Not too fond of it.

>>5756036
There are many ways to stylize your graphics, Fortnite's style is one that appeals less to me, and honestly I think most 3D after we moved away from vertex animating has aged pretty ok.
Not all modelers and animators are equal, naturally.

Some 3D in retro games were done in a deliberately stylized way, yet it still looks terrible.

>>5755997
Not him but I would still say that was applied to the gameplay. Trying to make Sonic FAST FAST because it's a cool selling point. But then the game isn't designed very well around it and the whole thing suffers in the end from trying too hard to pull off it's attitude.

>>5756056
If you say so. I think Half-Life 2 still looks pretty good, and that game is ancient now.

>>5756079
I don't love it, but like it more than attempts at realism.Wind Waker will always look incredible though.

>>5756041
This is correct. Quake 1 still looks good, for instance.

>>5756089
I find I like just casual realism better than when a dev pushes really hard about how realistic their graphics are.

Saint's Row 3 looks more appealing than Heavy Rain, for instance, and not just because SR3 is an actual videogame.

>>5756063
Then you're in luck. Modern games are made for people just like you. Am I wrong or does nothing beat relaxing late-night with some Witcher 3 after re-watching season 1 of Game of Thrones.

You homo.

>>5756085
Zeno Clash would be an example of a source engine game that has aged gracefully due to the great aesthetic. I think HL2 looks pretty bad today.

>>5756096
I'd agree with that. It's hard to go for realism and not fall into the uncanny valley.

>>5756102
I wouldn't know, I haven't played or watched either. But Monster Hunter keeps on being awesome.

>>5756056
Wrong. When a game attempts a realistic aesthetic and executes it with the eye of a talented artist it will look great forever.

>>5756108
I'm so sorry, anon; I totally misjudged you. Substitute Game of Thrones with Attack on Titan and Witcher 3 with Monster Hunter.

You homo.

>>5756116
Show me three gen 6+ games that do this.

>>5756102
That's a pretty specific remark, do you think you're talking to someone you know personally or are you projecting something?

>>5756119
I've also never watched Attack on Titan. So deeply sorry you're offended by my fun though, enjoy your grapes!

>>5756139
Resident Evil 4
Metal Gear Solid 3
Devil May Cry 3

>>5756102
>this post will totally stick it to those normies!

>>5756102
>>5756119
It never ceases to amuse me when an anon is dancing right on the cusp of gaining self-awareness, and then lets it slip away.

>>5756102
>>5756119
So where does this come from?

>>5756139
REmake
Metal Gear Solid 2
Dark Souls 3

>>5756036
>It's called stylized artwork you cretin
Yes. It's stylized to look like plastic toys. Is that somehow incorrect? I made no value judgment at all you seem overly sensitive.

>>5756156
>Resident Evil 4
Easily my favorite resident evil, but it looks really bad today.
>Metal Gear Solid 3
Ditto.
>Devil May Cry 3
The stylish monster designs look good, but the environments (which would be the element of realism) look awful.

In gen 6 we got too much fidelity for our own good when it comes to realism. If we go back to the playstation, resident evil 2, 3, and mgs look great despite their realistic aesthetic, because the ps1's style of rendering itself is a form of stylization.

>>5756174
Let's be fair though, Overwatch, at least partially, has some of the worst fucking stylization in AAA vidya.

>>5756175
>RE4 is easily my favorite resident evil, but it looks really bad today.
This retard doesn't own a CRT

>>5756169
Your Twitter account.
>>5756161
>This family photo will make the perfect reaction to that threatening post.
>>5756162
>I took a break from licking George RR Martin's inverted micro penis to type this post.

>>5756175
I don't see what you mean, those games still look great today, the polycount isn't too high, and the textures aren't the highest res, but every character looks believably human, with good facial animation and convincing body language. Most of the animation is rock solid, too.

>>5756196
Anon are you okay?

>>5756119
Monster Hunter fucking rocks though, and is almost no story and all action and solo is really challenging at points. What's bad about it?

>>5756183
It looks good even on a HD TV, the visual design of the game is fundamentally very good and a great example of realism done right during 6th gen.

>>5756196
I wish I was as cool as you.

>>5756205
It's probably either too popular or it's not from his childhood so that means it's bad.

>>5756209
This, but unironically. Games are children's toys, if you have no childhood attachment to it, how the fuck can you as an adult derive enjoyment from it? I'll never understand this.

>>5756196
Why are you making this a thing about Game Of Thrones? What does that have to do with this conversation or topic? You're the first to bring it up.

>>5756216
I'll just take the bait and say that this is a person who is dead inside.

>>5756205
It looks and plays like shit, the hit detection is awful, the enemies are damage sponges, the missions and combat are tedious and repetitive, and it's completely devoid of all personality or charm. Great game though.

>>5756218
A thousand apologies, m'lord.

>>5756225
I think it's always looked amazing, the hit detection is quite good actually and I think it's incredibly fun. I fibd your reaction funny but won't waste time trying to change your mind though.

>>5756218
His references are way too specific to be anything other than projecting his frustrations towards a friend, family member, or coworker onto everyone he's arguing with.