/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5745563
OoT has the better soundtrack, and most of the nostalgia for for classic vidya is specifically due to an emotional connection with the music.

>doesn't like it because wasn't born yet

>>5745565
>OoT has the better everything
ftfy

>>5745563
I am 30 and I like OoT better because I played that first. My 35 year old brother has always liked ALttP better.

>>5745574
Nah. From a gameplay perspective, ALttP is refined to near perfection, and there's very little you can do to mechanically improve the game. OoT on the other hand was groundbreaking, but the gameplay wasn't particularly refined, and thus we can't hold it up as an example of the genre at its peak. ALttP is a 10, OoT is a 9.

Because He was wise.

When will Nintendo fans break rank and admit that OoT hasn't aged that well, whereas 2D Zeldas are perfection even today.

>>5745563
Because different people have different opinions.

Although I have to agree, personally. OoT is a better game than ALttP. But MM is even better than OoT, at least in my opinion.

>>5745602
Only control schemes can age.

>>5745602
I actually have to agree. I played right through OoT a few months ago, and although it's still a very fun game, the graphics haven't aged that well and when you know how to complete each dungeon, they're all very short and easy to beat. At least on the original (not the master quest version).

The 2-D LoZ games still hold up well today because not only were good for their time, but since 3-D graphics have become easy to produce, few game developers have looked back. So the standards for what is deemed to be a "good" 2-D game hasn't developed anywhere near as much as the standards for a "good" 3-D game.

>>5745591
Great but not perfectChicago pizza is better than a perfect bologna sandwich. ALttP is a perfect version of inferior gameplay.

>>5745645
You're a perfect version of a nigger.

>>5745625
You can’t possibly believe ALttP’s dungeons are harder than OoT’s.

>>5745650
*siiiiiippp*
Aahhhhh... now A Link to the Past? THAT was a Zelda game! Not this 3D nonsense you see today.

>>5745591
Perfect version of the objectively inferior 2D Zeldas.

>>5745602
I can’t think of a single thing ALttP does better than OoT.
>music
OoT
>combat
OoT
>not having loading zones every five feet
OoT
>dungeons
OoT
>overworld
OoT
>graphics
OoT
>story
OoT
OoT has aged fine. ALttP is a chore to play these days.

>>5745669
>music
OoT
>combat
ALttP
>not running at silky smooth 20fps
ALttP
>dungeons
ALttP
>overworld
ALttP
>graphics
ALttP
>story
ALttP

>>5745675

>>5745675
>running around in four directions mashing B
>good combat

>>5745591
/thread

If there is one Zelda I would recommend to someone new to the series it would be alttp. 2nd would be oot.

>>5745602
OoT is my personal favorite and I will admit this. Also, it didn't age. It's always been the way it is now.

>>5745691
But OoT improved on everything ALttP did.

>>5745607
Question for you and anyone else that thinks MM is better than OoT. Would you recommend MM to someone who has never played a Zelda game? Or would you suggest they start with something more straightforward like OoT? I always saw MM as a game that only people who were already fans of Zelda would fully
appreciate.

If they make a rom hack that removes Navi from the game then maybe OoT will finally be a good game.

>>5745563
Yeah, I'd rather play the game that looks good, not the N64 low poly shit fest that is OoT. I won't play any 3d N64 games because they look like shit.

>>5745745
BK looks good.

>>5745689
>zelda
>good combat

>>5745657
The summer of 2018 called me telling me it wants its flavor of the year meme back.

OOT has 3d and actually fappable waifus
>It doesn't look good
Try it on a crt

Oot is just Nintendo saying hey, what if we made alttp 3d? It's a good game, but it's overrated. The story isn't original, the weapons aren't, having a normal and corrupted environment isn't. Because it's on the n64 it's a lot emptier than alttp. Alttp better utilized the duality of its world instead of oot which gives you next to no reason to go back in time. If all you care about is better graphics then I can see being attached to oot. But alttp is the game it wants to be.

It's like Pokemon or GTA, the first one you played is your favorite.

>>5745927
What a terrible analogy.

>>5745927
I hate top down GTA though. Further Pokemon red has aged terribly. The only reason to play them is novelty. Of which only one of them possessed.

>>5745563
>Why did God create people who think this is better than Ocarina of Time?
Because he needed some correct people to balance out all the incorrect people.

>>5745602
No such thing as aging, OoT was shit the day it was released.

>>5745563
honestly, I feel like comparing the two games is a trap

ALttP came out at the time where they'd all but perfected 2d gameplay for this style of game and it had the look down

OoT came out when 3D was new and experimental. they didn't really know how to do it, but i felt like the job they did was fantastic. hell, I even like the wonky character models

both are great games and a great experience to revisit from time to time

>>5745927
Pokemon Blue and GTA London 1969 are not my favourite Pokemon/GTA games.

>>5745887
ALttP is the best 2d zelda, WW is the best 3d zelda.

>>5745927
completely wrong
many people who played LoZ first think Alttp is the best. I also did until I went back to replay both of them, at which point I revised my opinion into thinking that the original is a slightly better game, although both are good. Then there are Zelda 2 fans, many of whom tend to not really consider any other Zelda games even worth playing. They just like the side-scrolling action and difficulty.

No, it's a specific phenomenon with Ocarina because it did some things really well, and its flaws are things that kids with endless free time and inexperienced tastes are less likely to notice. Kids loved it because it was like this giant imaginative playground with so many cool things you could do. Running around the world didn't feel like wasted time it felt magical. And so they came to just accept treating any kind of routine activity as valid gameplay so long as it was in 3D. This specifically applies to kids who were prime kid-gamer age in the late 90s (a demographic that forms the bulk of traffic to /vr/ and probably 4chan in general, although /v/ is dominated by zoomers). I'll bet you anything most Ocarina fans are also Pokemon fans that started with Red/Blue around the same time.

For everyone else, Ocarina was just a highly refined big-budget Nintendo product for kids that wasn't exciting, challenging, deep, or action-packed enough to care about. There were so many other great games out in 1998-1999 that 10 year olds were less likely to play, like Half-Life and Baldur's Gate.

/v/-tier thread

>>5746085
>OoT came out when 3D was new and experimental.
to be fair, Ocarina came out near the end of the 3D experimentation phase. Most of the hard work in 3D experimentation had been done already. Ocarina brought it all together with a refined control scheme in a way that worked well for a 3D adventure game.

You could call 1997-2001 "early 3D" compared to modern games but the real 3D experiments were done in the early and mid-90s (Doom, Quake, Tomb Raider, even Mario 64).

>>5746127
/b/-tier comment

>>5746102
The only thing Wind Waker is best at is being really cute. As a game it's mediocre.

lttp runs at 3x the framerate on older hardware

i feel bad for people who got stuck with that shit console

>>5745695
Would suggest to start with OoT, since MM time travel mechanic might put some people off. OoT is linear and quick enough for newcomers.

>>5745563
Why did god creat gigantic, pussy crybabies who can't handle the idea of other people having thoughts of their own?

WAH WAH WAH STOP JUDGING MY SHITTY TASTE

>>5745689
I won't pretend it's anything like solving Enigma, but there's more thought involved in LttP's combat than you give it credit. You have to mind your positioning against soldiers or else you'll just be mashing B like a retard all day clanging against their swords. Your shield is always ready to deflect shit. When you charge your spinning attack you hold your sword out and poke with it when you get it close enough to connect with something, and can strafe while doing so to keep yourself facing forward to properly exploit this. When your hearts are full the Master Sword throws bolts of light with every attack, a reward which can become harder to maintain as you get more hearts.

OoT meanwhile has horizontal slashes and vertical slashes and thrusts and it doesn't ever make much difference because you typically perform either vertical slashes or thrusts on account of Z-Targeting and come out on top even when a horizontal slash was clearly called for. That doesn't mean you don't get plenty of harrowing Sinbad moments, but what it has in spectacle it lacks in substance. You could argue vice versa for LttP I suppose.

>>5745563
>Why did God create people who think this is better than Ocarina of Time?

because he wanted to create intelligent human beans.

>>5746218
The N64 has more buttons which means you can use three items at once instead of just one. ALttP also has like 10% of the pixels of OoT so the framerate doesn’t matter, each of the characters is like 20 pixels and hardly looks human.

>>5746697
You can’t even aim the bow in ALttP. This isn’t even a discussion.

>>5746874
>lock on to enemy
>arrow never misses
OoT "aiming"

>>5746886
Lock on or don’t, it’s way better than the one dimension ALttP gives you.

>>5746938
actually, it's two dimensions. you get the left/right axis and the up/down axis.

>>5746959
The arrow can only travel in a straight line in front of you. In 3D games you can choose all three dimensions to shoot at.

>>5745565
OOT's music is literally uninspired, bland MIDI tracks. I can't imagine how much shit taste you have to have to think it's the best anything, especially compared to some of the stellar OSTs from Saturn and PSX, you know, consoles that had ACTUAL sound chips and redbook audio?

>>5745574
OOT is boring.

why do people act like subjective opinions are objective? instead of saying X is the "best", why not say it's your "favorite"? It just sounds like a cheap attempt to legitimize an opinion.

I like ALttP better because I played it as a kid but I can’t imagine it would mean much to people who have only played the 3D games.

>>5747009
I'm an 18 year old zoomer who went into OoT expecting the greatest game of all time only to be severely disappointing. That said ALttP is one of my favorite games of all time. I just find the experience on SNES to be much more fluid, fleshed out, and just plain enjoyable.

>58 replies
I guess the bait wasn't as shitty as it looked upon first glance

>>5747017
/vr/ is literally /v/, just with 20 something year olds who think they're mature for liking old games.

>>5746873
>256x224 is 10% of 320x224

nice math

>>5746987
same thing goes for ocarina. arrows in zelda didn't get an arc until skyward sword and botw.

>>5745563
It is the best 2D Zelda though.

Why did God create people who think Zelda is good in the first place?
I couldn't think of a more overrated series even if I tried.

>>5746874
It could be a discussion if you had a point but you don't seem to. The ability to cumbersomely aim your bow in three dimensions doesn't make the sword fights, which you spend much more time doing, any less brain dead. The horseback archery it facilitates is pretty dope though. It's much more exciting than every sword fight and the game doesn't have you do enough of it.

>>5747029
I didn’t say anything about an arc. Just note how many places you can shoot an arrow from any once stance.
>ALttP - 1
>OoT - Infinity

>>5747015
Interesting a zoomed could appreciate a 2D game. There’s reason modern producers almost never go back to them, they’re just inferior.

>>5746996
No one else gave you a (You) so here you go

>>5747171
This! 3D is universally better than 2D.

You guys are such faggots.

>>5747168
It's actually zero angles in OoT since you just lock on and it does all the aiming for you.

>>5746874
>You can’t even aim the bow in ALttP.
a) so what?
b) if you really like aiming that much you can play any of the great FPS games that already existed by the time Ocarina was released.

>>5747168
a lot of the directions you can shoot from in ocarina are useless, though. firing at the floor is pointless for obvious reasons, and not many enemies attack from above.

>>5747230
Would it be improved by firing directly in front of Link at chest height no matter what?

>>5747234
That could be interesting. It would perhaps work better in a top-down or isometric game, though.

>>5747230
seriously that guy just doesn't understand the fundamental differences in game dynamics between a 2D and 3D game. The first game I played that had aiming in 3D was Spectrum Holobyte's F-16 Falcon flight simulator in 1987, more than 10 years before Ocarina of Time was released. The X-Wing series of games also had aiming in 3D, in fact that game was 100% 3D you could fly in any direction. It was quite smooth and playable even back in the early 90s.

Ocarina's aiming is nothing special in fact I found it rather tedious, which is extra disappointing because combat was so sparse in the first place I was excited to finally have some enemies to fight.

>>5747234
>Would it be improved by firing directly in front of Link at chest height no matter what?
There's a famous FPS game that made it work.

>>5745591
Then why have I played OoT dozens of times in the last 20 years but I've played ALttP maybe 3 times since it came out?
and I hate the controls

>>5747248
poor taste
What's your favorite Pokemon game?

>>5747171
>Interesting a zoomed could appreciate a 2D game
Get off 4chan. People are not all the same.

>>5747254
BW2

>>5747248
OoT is more immersive. You could argue all day that ALTTP is acktually the better game, but playing OoT feels like a virtual vacation.

>>5747268
Too bad people wanted an adventure.

>>5747268
the fact that oot forces you to play as a green-clothed knife-ears breaks my immersion. these games should always have a character creation system.

>>5747289
It's a 3d character action game
Playing as a set character is part of the thing

>>5747289
>can't play as a fat, balding man nor a big tittied woman
Dropped.

>>5745563
>Ocarina of Time is just a 3D remake of A Link to the Past.
>A Link to the Past was more influential to the franchise till Breath of the Wild.
>The 2D sprite work for Alttp has aged better than the mid/late 90s 3D of OoT.

>>5747343
LttP's sprites are actually kind of ugly.

>>5745650
based nigger poster

>>5747268
can't argue with this

>>5747289
What if Zelda was a girl?

>>5745669
>>combat
>OoT

Objectively wrong. OoT's enemies only fight Link 1v1. If you're engaged with something the rest will wait their turn. It's pretty stupid but due to the limitations of the hardware it's all they could do. Unlike LttP where you enter a room and there's a group of various types of enemies all gunning for you and you have to decide and prioritize who you take out first and with which weapon, because some are more effective than others.

>overworld
>OoT

And Jesus Christ I don't even know what to say about this. OoT's overworld was one big empty field with 8 trees and few to no enemies. LttP's every screen was unique and there was often a secret of puzzle involved, like how do you access that cliff? Gotta go to Dark World and find a way up and mirror yourself back.

I grew up with OoT and only played ALttP much later my life, so it would be natural to be partial towards the former, but its not the case for me.
Whenever I replay OoT now the overworld just feels so empty and bland and transversing the distances between the specific places you have to visit becomes very boring.
With ALttP I dont have this feeling at all, every screen transition feels like it has something different to do.

When it comes to aging I have to agree with people who said ALttP aged better. It was the peak of its genre in the 2D era, while OoT was just beginning the path for 3D action-adventure games, it feels very dated compared with what came out later.

>>5747275
>playing in a world you can traverse completely in a minute is more immersive

>>5747582
ALttP’s overworld was tiny as fuck it didn’t even feel like a kingdom to me. You can cross the whole map in a minute. OoT’s is fucking huge in comparison. In the distance from anywhere you can see the castle, the volcano, the ranch, all places that can actually be explored.

>>5747257
I’ve been here all summer you newfag

>>5747664
>OoT’s is fucking huge in comparison. In the distance from anywhere you can see the castle, the volcano, the ranch, all places that can actually be explored.
If you can see everything from one spot that implies it's actually really tiny (which it is). You can cross the field in about a minute since it just serves as a hub area with different areas branching out from spokes. It doesn't even feel organic.

>>5747664
>ALttP’s overworld was tiny as fuck
It's not tiny, it just isn't padded with tons of empty space acting as filler like oot.

>>5745563
Comparing older top down style zelda games to 3d zelda games is literally retarded. Thats like asking what the best 'shooter' is and the debate is between galaga and doom. Entirely different games, entirely different feelings and things to like/dislike about them. They share the name, characters, and basic groundwork lore, thats about it. There's no logical way to compare them otherwise.

>>5746102
>2 mediocre dungeons that require you to play the Command Melody every 10 seconds instead of mapping a button to switching between the characters
>sailing for fucking ever until you get the Ballad of Gales, and even then it's a pain in the ass
>need to beat the game so you can replay it to read dialogue from major characters
>because of the way the Wind Waker works, you can't just mush the song you've played 100 times and have to wait to make the inputs at the right time
>having to grind for rupees so that Tingle will make your maps readable

>>5749372
Good points, but at least it has character progression and some actually decent rewards for exploration, unlike botw.

I just can’t get into OOT like I can the 2D Zeldas. I never had an N64 so revisiting these games now all I see is terrible camera controls and aged clunky combat. Whereas any 2D adventure game or performer is as responsive and visually engaging as their modern day equivalents. ALttP would be beloved if it was released today, OOT would be a joke.

>>5749128
It's actually perfectly valid because experiencing what an empty shell the 3D Zelda experience is really adds context to the finer points of game design that are present in 2D Zelda games and are designed to work within the confines of 2D space, which, otherwise, may have been difficult to conceptualize without such a comparison.

>>5745563
>Creator God
>3D games
kys kike

Alttp, as a game, is one of the greatest. I don't play games for the story, so I don't get the fuzz behind OoT: somehow you have more directions and less control of your char. Dungeons are bigger but emptier. Snes Zelda has a better pacing (walk/combat) whereas OoT you spend too much time watching the horizon without much to do.

I understand than anything in 3D will become more popular just for the fact that it feels more immersive, but for me it doesn't feel much if I spend my time walking rather than actually fighting or making decisions.

>>5745563
Because the N64 fucking SUCKS and OOT wasn't perfected until the 3DS version.
ALttP otoh was perfected when it was released, and it's still the best looking and sounding game in the series.
Also -
>no "ha! ha!"
>no HEY, LISTEN
>no day/night faggotry
>fucking SWORD BEAM
>actual useful magic

>>5747870
Not that anon but alttp's world is small. It's both small in the literal sense and it has layout where there are large chunks of the map you spend most of the game ignoring. That's true without reference to OOT. The original LoZ's overworld feels a little bigger than alltp even when you count the Dark World(MUCH smaller if you don't). And Alttp should have been bigger than LoZ.

I think alttp would have been better if both the light and dark worlds were maybe 20% bigger (with appropriate additions of enemies and minor points of interest).

>>5745563
This is literally the best video game of all time.

3D gaming > 2D gaming

>>5749442
totally agree
I sometimes bring up Dark Souls when the 2D/3D thing comes up, which usually leads to aneurysm in Ocarina fans("Comparing DkS and OoT?? retarded!!"). But the only reason I bring it up is to point out that a game being in 3D isn't an excuse to be empty and devoid of danger and enemies.

>>5749581
good 2D games are better than shit 3D games though and a lot of 3D games are utter garbage. You probably lack the taste to tell the difference.

>>5749594
thief, system shock, deus ex> 2d kiddie games.

>>5749720

>>5749594
Obviously, but the best of 3D >>> the best of 2D.

>>5745563
We exist solely to make you butthurt enough about it to make dumb threads like these.
But thats not all! The lord gifts us with sexual pleasure every time you complain about it! He hates you yknow.

>>5745563
>clunky early 3D vs smooth perfected 2D
It's not that hard to understand

>>5745591

ALTTP is my favorite, but it isn't perfect. Lots of bosses can be cheesed by just mashing y and spamming arrows at them.

That said, the bosses look fucking great and if you don't cheese your way through them they are really good.

But there are multiple bosses you can beat in seconds just mashing y right out the gate.

>>5750063
>perfected 2D
ALTTP (and while I'm at it, SMW) feel like a half step between 8 and 16-bit.

The world would be boring if everyone had good taste.

>>5749436
ALttP would be a free cell phone game if it came out today.

>>5750195
You couldn't be more wrong m8

>>5750012
mostly not, though. Because when people say the best of 3D they tend to think of shit like Ocarina of Time which is mediocre at best compared to many 2D games.

>>5745645
>Chicago Pizza
>Bologna sandwich
Yikes, just googled it. American food looks disgusting.

>>5745650
Based

>>5745927
First GTA is SA, and I prefer Chinatown Wars.
First pokèmon is Red, and I prefer BW2.

>>5746102
Link's Awekening is best 2D. 3D is Botw I think.

>>5745563
Ocarina of Time is the favorite game of austistic tranny speed runners.

>>5746121
>For everyone else, Ocarina was just a highly refined big-budget Nintendo product for kids that wasn't exciting, challenging, deep, or action-packed enough to care about.
I'm playing Ocarina for the first time right now and it's very deep, very challenging, and the level design of the dungeons are nearly unparalleled in all of video games. Ocarina is genius, and far more impressive today than either Half-Life or Baldur's Gate.

>>5750012
Wrong.

He knew humanity would need a few stable geniuses to help along the way. Couldn't let us all be n64 babby retards

>>5750767
>He likes handhelds
Ouch

>>5750854
Handheld and smaller gaming is what the most feels like ''retro'' (which again, isn't just a denomination for games of a given range of time, rather than games made with a certain design philosophy/direction which often can't be found anymore in current years) today.
Sorry zoomers can't grasp this.
>>>/v/

>>5750854
They were great for road trips or playing shit under the covers with the based worm light when you should be sleeping.

>>5750920
>Sorry zoomers can't grasp this.
I think zoomers spend more time playing mobileshit on their smartphones than we ever did on our GBs.

>>5745645
It is impossible to refute this. 2D fans on suicide watch now.

>>5750947
>comparing Mobiles to Handheld console
My reaction >>5749729

>>5750981
>portable
>handheld
>used to play simple games
They're being used in the same way, they just have additional features.

>>5751003
Since when are handheld games simple?

>>5751060
They have traditionally been far simpler than non-handheld offerings available at the time.

>>5751065
At least use a real example. Take the Zelda series. Link's Awakening is hardly a dumbed down version of ALttP. And it's certainly more complex than what you can play on a smartphone. And if we're making contemporary comparisons BotW is the most complex in the series and it's on a handheld. As is Dark Souls and a bunch of other very complex games.

>>5745563
I could hardly force myself to finish OoT and MM, and while I've played every other 3D Zelda, I haven't finished. Meanwhile, I've finished LttP, LA, LoZ1&2 dozens of times.

3D Zelda is just missing that spark of something that made Zelda great. I can't put my finger on it, but I just get bored with them and long for the time of overhead sprites. I did enjoy Link Between Worlds though, that was pretty great.

>>5751084
>At least use a real example
Define a real example.
>Link's Awakening is hardly a dumbed down version of ALttP
I never used the phrase "dumbed down", I said "simple", which has no negative connotation. I'm glad you chose LA though, because it's absolutely a simplified version of ALttP, and it does it marvelously.
>And if we're making contemporary comparisons BotW is the most complex in the series and it's on a handheld. As is Dark Souls and a bunch of other very complex games
You're reaching.

>>5747628
OoT would feel very unnatural without that empty space. If the castle and Kakariko were 10 seconds from the forest it wouldn’t even seem like a world. That’s how ALttP feels, contrived and tiny.

>>5745664
>2D
>objectively inferior

>>5751538
>normie
Just call him a nigger until he leaves.

>>5751540
back to /v/ retard

Any game on SNES>Any game on N64. The first Zelda is definitely the best.

>>5751386
but you're ok with death mountain being next to kakariko?

>>5745645
I like this comparison, but I disagree

>>5745694
Objectively false. Less complex dungeons and largely different feel. It’s like comparing apples to oranges, only that the orange is not ripe yet.

>>5751386
LoZ doesn't feel small or empty.
AlttP world feels contrived and small but only after you've played through the whole game. It's not really noticeable until you replay the game. Meanwhile, Ocarina starts wasting your time immediately.
>OoT would feel very unnatural without that empty space.
So what? Then it wouldn't waste your time. Zelda games aren't RPGs it doesn't matter if they feel natural it matters if they are fun to explore.
At least, traditional Zelda fans didn't need all that empty space with no danger or challenge. But N64 kiddies liked having an easy no-stress experience that was more about taking in the colorful, 3D environment and chatting up 3D princesses, and playing arbitrary pentatonic scale patterns on an overdesigned control pad than playing anything that could reasonably be called a game.

>>5745694
all the things that get said in Zelda threads, this is the most bizarre. It's frankly mind-boggling how many traits of each game you have to ignore to say something so crazy.

>>5751120
Would super disagree. I could play kingdom hearts, metal gear solid 3, and oot comfortably on my 3ds. Has the same layout out older conceals. Could not play comfortably on mobile without external controller and stuff.

>>5751113
3D Zelda let action atrophy while it bizarrely decided Zelda should have a focus on puzzles.

>>5747054
Final Fantasy (from and including 7) says "Hi".

>>5751575
Both F-Zero and Starfox are way better on the N64.

>>5751951
I'd say a minority of FF fans really consider their favorite series to be best game tier (if any JRPG gets overrated in that manner it's Chrono Trigger). Most JRPG fans view FF through the genre lens, while Zelda fans view the Zelda series as the pure distilled essence of everything that videogames should be.

>>5751575
>>5751987
And Super Mario and Mario Kart as well. And Zelda. And Mario RPG/Paper Mario.

>>5752014
Nah, none of those.

>>5751998
As a die-hard FF fance since NES FF1, it boils my piss when FF7 (and FF8 and FFX to an extent) get lauded as the best fuckin' games ever, because just like OoT, it was their first entry into the series.

LttP and LA are both superior to OoT, just like FF4 and FF5 are better than FF7 by fuckin' miles.

>>5752023
>just like FF4 and FF5 are better than FF7 by fuckin' miles
based contrarian poster

>>5752029
they are though it's really not even close unless you're a storyfag and who gives a fuck about them

>>5745563
without clay, what gives silver value?

>>5752061
That it's fucking silver.

>>5752023
I'm not trolling or trying to be a douche, but why is LA rated so high? I played it once and never had a desire to play it again. I've played lttp and OoT like a dozen times. What makes LA so good?

>>5752070
It's the new contrarian choice.

>>5752070
It's just more ALttP, and most anons really, really like ALttP.

>>5752016
Liking SMK over MK64 is just being a contrarian faggot.

>>5745563
The beauty I find with oot is the endless glitches to break the game in many different ways. Casually tho
they are both great games.

>>5745563
because society wouldn't function if everyone was as stupid as ocarinafags.

>>5745591
ALttP can't be perfect in a world where LA exists.

>>5746102
>WWfags

Fucking disgusting.

>>5752513
>The beauty I find with oot is the endless glitches to break the game in many different ways.
Choke on a dick.

ALttP is one of those games that I had fun beating, but have no desire to play ever again. When I look back on it, the game is kind of monotonous. The majority of the top-down Zeldas are, but it's fine the first time you play it because you don't really know what to expect at any given moment. It's kind of like watching a B-rank action/adventure movie, by the end of it you feel like you sort of had fun, you're not regretting the time you spent, but when you think back on it there was no one time your brain or senses were truly stimulated, so the idea of re-watching it just sounds a bit dreadful

>>5754382
that's some real try-hard pasta

>>5752245
Different anon, but SMK is better and was considered the best in the series for a long time after MK64 came out.

>>5745563
You need to die a slow, painful death, you fucking summer-fag.

>>5754468
>everything you can't refute or don't agree with is pasta

>>5754498
every single """point""" there is so bland it could apply to anything.

>>5751796
I’ve been trying to finish ALttP for the last year and a half and I can never keep interest in it. Repetitive music, soulless NPCs, boring tiny overworld I cant immerse myself into, simple combat. Even the dungeons are too simple. They’re small and consist only of fetchquests from one part of them to the other. I seriously can’t believe they’re praised here.

>>5751668
Villages built at the base of mountains are quite common in the real world, so yes. Same with villages built on rivers (Hyrule castle town, Zora’s Domain).

>>5751779
>Less complex dungeons
Lmao no

>>5751790
It’s definitely something I noticed immediately. I couldn’t take its postage stamp sized map seriously.

>>5754475
Not true. And MK64 sucks by the way, but it’s smiles ahead of SMK.

Do not response to n64 kids, they are the worst fucking pieces of shit known to existence and the only reason Nintendo is still around. n64 kids are the only Nintendo "fans" who think the Wii and Switch are good. The only good consoles Nintendo with their own exclusives is Super Nintendo/GameCube.

>>5755242
>2D games are so good almost no one makes them anymore

>>5755364
cope

Ocarina is the worst game I've ever seen.

>>5755007
>fetchquests
You know how I know you haven't played alttp?

>>5755007
you don't have to like Alttp more than OoT but to see them as fundamentally the same game except that OoT is improved, just means that you are a complete fucking idiot who can't tell the difference between things that are obviously different.

>>5755364
Popularity and quality are positively correlated.

>>5755014
death mountain isn't just a regular old mountain, it's an active volcano full of monsters.

>>5749591
Dark souls is literally how to make enemies 101. The game has it's flaws, but it's a nice shining example of good design choices in a newer generation of mostly shit games. I remember the first time i played the game i there were several times that i thought about how cool it would be if the enemies in previous 3d adventure/combat games i liked were as complicated, one being OoT. Of course Dark Souls is more of a challenge to figure out enemy patterns and how best to deal with them as opposed to OoT, which is full of puzzles and problem solving on a non combat level so its hard to compare the two of them as a whole, i think diehard OoT fans will leap on anything anyone remotely suggests did something better than it.

>>5755007
>boring tiny overworld I cant immerse myself into

At least it's better than OoT's overworld which is smaller and has absolutely nothing in it

>>5756384
We know BOTW kicks the shit out of both games

>>5745563
N64 Zeldas are absolute trash on par with the CD-i ones. ALttP isn't the best of the series but it's mile ahead

>>5745563
Very nice. However...

>>5745563
10/10 trolling
truly masterful

>>5755364
Practical effects are better than CGI, but they're rare now too.

>>5745657
this but unironically

>>5756624
I never thought it’d go this well. I’m just not enjoying it and felt like shitting on the people that do.

>>5745565
Prove it.

A great game always has a good soundtrack. Otherwise it wouldnt be a great game.

>>5750078
>The bosses look great.
The bosses look like crap dude. The art direction in LttP is crap overall. Especially the enemy redesigns which are just uglier versions of the 8-bit sprites.

>>5757356
>SNES “”””””graphics””””””

>>5745589
That means nothing, i’m 31 and started with Zelda 1 and 2 and those aren’t my favorite. I think i had the chance to know old games so i’m totally able to know when something is good despite his graphismes or if it’s in 2D or 3D.

Also I consider the N64 3D as a regression, i mean we have let down the 2D that started to be beautiful to go to a poor 3D with bad colors. It’s like the N64 was like NES of the 3D and had the same kind of problem like being slowed when there are too much things on screen.

>>5757397
Almost every place in OoT is more beautiful than every place in ALttP. Kokiri Forest and the Temple of Time come to mind.

>>5747386
what exactly is happening in this picture?

>>5755242
>n64 kids are the only Nintendo "fans" who think the Wii and Switch are good.
The Wii actually had a decent amount of good games and the Switch is turning into a decent handheld, even though my wife plays it more than I do it.
Also, cope.

I've played EVERY Zelda, favoring the handheld ones, but I never played LTTP.

I think I'm gonna play it this summer, but I'm worried that the hype will never live up

>>5745602
Your butthole aged. Software doesn't.
Go and play ps4 cinematic games if you can't handle 90's games fag. You try to sound wise but A Link To The Past isn't that beautiful visually or sound that well compared to shit of nowdays.

Both are timeless classics, but ocarina raised the bar for many games to come in decades.

>>5745625
Why the fuck are you playing something if you have the current generation of games in your mind?
What a fucking autist.

>>5745625
>the graphics haven't aged that well
Ocarina's graphics have aged beautifully. They look even better today than they did when the game was contemporary. Its only major flaws are its camera, Navi, and a few dialogue sessions can be too long-winded.

It's a masterpiece.

>>5757549
It doesn’t. I was highly disappointed.

>>5755602
>find a key in one part of dungeon
>take it to unlock door on other side of dungeon
etc etc

Im planning to play most of the LoZ games that I can get my hands on. I started with the Minish Cap. How bad/good did I do? What's the next LoZ I should play?

>>5750767
>Link's Awekening [sic] is best 2D
came here to post this
love that nigga like you wouldn't believe

>>5757627
You played the notoriously worst and most boring 2D Zelda game. Just play them in release order.

>>5757356
Now direct your attention to the Iconic enemy redesigns of Ocarina.

>>5747247
Ocarina has combat with unfulfilled potential, but LttP has combat that is just mediocre in general.
If you want good 2D combat then play Zelda II.

>>5751779
Link to the pasts dungeons are boring and shitty.
They can't hold a candle to Ocarina.

>>5757809
>If you want good 2D combat then play Zelda II.
another apples/oranges comparison because Zelda 2 is a side-scrolling platform-style game.
Compare alttp to its contemporaries like Soul Blazer and the combat holds up very well. The key to designing top-down 2D combat is careful attention to the speed and movement limitations of every entity.
Compared with LoZ1, alttp is more complex but easier with too many loopholes and relatively low-cost "easy outs" from potentially difficult combat scenarios (eg ether+hammer, invis cape). But overall it's really excellently designed both in terms of systems and content, with great scenario variety and some decent challenge.

>>5745563
I prefer ALttP because is easier to pick up and beat it while i find very boring to navigate the OoT world outside the dungeons.

Zelda fans only value the series for it's super shallow story and thin atmosphere. ( and also tradition, but that's not relevant to this discussion since OoT and AlttP share the key hunting formula )

You cant expect the normie to care about a game without cutscenes and fake deep dialogue to make up new fanfiction about

>>5749581
this is the spirit of degenerate 3D-obsessed Western Civilization. you retards should be sterilized.

>>5745602
OoT is fine for someone who hasnt played it befor and doesnt feel like skipping all the text.

And 2D Zelda is definitely not perfection. Not as long as the gameboy and DS games exist. Thankfully LA is getting remade with its biggest issues removed, but that still leaves oracles, but I dont think any polishing will make the turd that is ages not stink.

>>5745669
>>5745675
People really like OoT music better?
I'm not so big on N64 trumpets myself.

>>5757615
That's all zelda games you tard. The loop is go to dungeon find keys to unlock doors to find map and compass then the dungeon item. After that if it's alttp or later you find the boss key and finish the dungeon. Following that you normally got the ability to progress to the next dungeon.

If getting keys and other unique items to make progress to be worthy of being called a fetch quest you make all adventure games fetch quests. Fetch quests are more of a get x number of items for a reward. You don't normally collect 5 keys to give them to an npc for a direct reward and end of quest.

>>5758839
It's a bad loop.
Blows my mind that traditionfags want the key hunting formula back instead of the obviously superior puzzle room progression of botw. What these brainless actually want are more varied enemies and aestetics.

>>5745563
Go fuck yourself you zoomer piece of shit.

t. Boomer

>>5758965
>puzzles in Zelda
>a good thing
Aonuma, go away

>>5758965
This is a thread about OoT vs ALttP. Both of these games utilize the same loop format. They both have puzzles. The former seems like it is more puzzle based because Nintendo removed the vast majority of combat.

I like both

>>5758965
>key hunting formula
Is superior to specific puzzles.
And unfortunately it's a bit of a misnomer because "keys" (except the "big key") in the NES/SNES games were a resource. Keys work on any door*. The idea is that you had to make decisions about when and where to use that resource. Poor decisions usually meant you had to fight more enemies to get more keys, or even buy them. Good decisions left you with a surplus of keys that could be used later on(see pic-related).

*per-dungeon in alttp.

>>5758620
It’s not even close. Nothing in LttP is half as good as the intro to the Zora’s Domain theme, which is probably the tenth best OoT piece.

>>5758839
That’s why OoT’s dungeons are superior. They have an actual atmosphere and more to do and explore then traverse a tiny flat array of rooms to find keys. They can even be manipulated, ie shooting the eye to rotate the forest temple or changing the water levels in the water temple to make new areas accessible.

Of course like >>5758965 said BotW is better than both.

On release OoT pushed the boundaries for what was considered to be possible in a 3D action adventure game, and used Z-targeting to make a normally clunky genre much more smooth and fluid.
Nowadays the extent and depth of OoTs world is considered the bare minimum required for an action adventure game, and controls have gotten so good Z-targeting mechanics are nearly obsolete outside of niche use in very precise situations.
I don't understand how the concept that it aged is in any way controversial, on release it would've been the best action adventure game you ever played because nothing like it existed up to that point. 20 years later it would seem minimalist in comparison to everything else that uses the standards it set as their foundation.

>>5759416
>They have an actual atmosphere and more to do and explore then traverse a tiny flat array of rooms to find keys.
But no real challenge or meaningful decisions to make. Just finding the specific thing you need to unlock the way forward or pushing blocks around to access some ledge.

>>5745563
OOT is heavily inspired by LTtP, also replicated many aspects.

>>5759416
>If I ignore the instances where you interact with the environment in alttp to progress that's how I'll get him.
Keep shifting those goal posts.

>>5759443
>on release it would've been the best action adventure game you ever played
No it really wasn't. Tomb Raider had already had a sequel.
> because nothing like it existed up to that point.
In terms of z-targeting, you'd be correct. Otherwise, not so much. 5 minutes into Tomb Raider II and you'll navigating a gauntlet of deadly traps. 5 minutes into Ocarina and you're probably still waiting for text to finish scrolling on some random NPC.

I'm not saying Tomb Raider series is unequivocally better than OoT but it's still an action-adventure with good controls, great atmosphere and interesting environments and clever puzzles and challenges. And unlike Ocarina's Hyrule, the world in Tomb Raider felt legitimately dangerous, like you had to be really careful and observant or else you'd die. Also the first one came out 3 years before Ocarina.

>>5759480
>Comparing a linear game with heavy platforming, to an open world game without a dedicated jump button

Maybe I shouldn't have used such an all-encompassing term, but come on man, they're not in the same genre.

>>5759504
I am comparing them in a way that a player at the time would have compared them, since that's the context you established. And yes, there existed people at the time who were turned off by Ocarina's slow pace and lack of danger. Their minds were not blown, they didn't think "omg most amazing action-adventure ever."

>>5745563
*Blocks your path*
Zelda 2 is the best game in the series.

>>5746996

Completely agree with the tracks in the 64 being uninspired midi crap. Embarassing considering the Ps one had games with music like SotN.

>>5746996
>OOT's music is literally uninspired, bland MIDI track
>>5761028
>midi crap
What does being midi have to do with it?
You fags would like literal turds randomly dropped on a score so long as it was played on a real instrument?

>>5745695
MM is only favored by storyfags who think "much fake dark atmosphere" is what makes the game good. MM would likely be confusing and frustrating for someone not already endeared to the series.

I say start at OoT or BotW for your first forray into 3D Zelda.
OoT sets the standard for the original 3D Zelda formula but has none of the gimmicks, and BotW is the only Zelda that I feel confident in recommending tothe avaveavaveravaveavaveraavaveavaveravaveavaveragavaveavaveravaveavaveraavaveavaveravaveavaverage joe

>>5751575
I dunno mang, Starfox 64, Mario Kart 64, and F-Zero X shit all over their SNES counterparts. Makes them look like tech demos ( which is mostly true )

>>5757356
I'm a LttP stan and I agree with this, always thought it was the ugliest 2D Zelda.
Why is the hacking scene so abysmal? Where is our Zelda redrawn? Closest we get is Link with neon yellow hair.

>>5761458
>Mode 7 games on the snes look like hot garbage in comparison to their 32x counterparts
You don't fucking say.

Because it doesn't have the Water Temple.

Is because I haven't been in to gaming since the God awful PS1 that I have no problems with either game and I don't see how you morons claim they didn't age well? To me the games are just as awesome as they were when I first played them.

>>5745610
You're retarded

>>5745563
Ocarina has amazing presentation but the gameplay is stale. Half of the people in this thread are coping with the fact the gameplay is primitive and hasn't aged well. I don't give a shit what anyone says but Breath of the Wild is way better than it in terms of gameplay.

>>5745563
>Oops! Looks like you don't have the triangle block yet, you can't proceed to the next part!
This is what you retards want in your games.

>>5761057

No. I just know what I like. Now fuck off.

>>5762078
if you're unable to express yourself like a human maybe you're the cretin who should fuck off

>>5761882
There's a great board where you can talk about botw all you want, it is not this one. B-but it's on topic. No, it's not. Go be a self important baby who doesn't care what people think of him which seems incongruous to taking the time to post there.

Inb4 cope