/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5739269
Yes also the Level 2 Dungeon is the ruins of Hyrule Castle.

>>5739269
Logically, death mountain would likely be fire temple

>>5739269
>>5739272
>>5739279

Yep. They planned it all out from the first game.

>>5739269
>zelda lore

>>5739306
Well, retcons exist. Comics do it all the time. There's no denying OoT took inspiration from the first game. I mean come on, TWO trees with faces and giant mouths you enter? Not a coincidence. It's easy for them to backtrack and just say this was the Deku Tree remains all along.

Good lord, the Zelda timeline is so retarded.

What the fuck is wrong with just saying, "It's the same story retold over and over again as new technology allows for more in-depth realizations"? Link defeats the dark-skinned guy and rescues the princess, why fucking complicate it? Let each new Zelda put its own unique spin on things instead of trying to fit them with all the others.

You people are more autistic than FF8 fans

>>5739279
That would also mean level 6 in the graveyard would be near the ruins to Kakariko village.

Yeah remember when you cross a bridge in OoT to get to a tree on an island surrounded by cliffs

>>5739935
Shit, that's a good point. Fuck anon, good catch.

>>5739924
That removes throwbacks, hidden areas, etc. You being upset might be the most autistic thing here.

>>5739946
>That removes throwbacks, hidden areas, etc.
You can have all those things without timeline autism, plus you get the added bonus of appreciating each game on its own merits, rather than how well it validates your little pet theories
>You being upset
I'm more baffled than anything

>>5739924
>more autistic than FF8 fans
You can say that shit when LoZ has a Balamb Garden incident.

>>5739942
This has my noggin joggin'

People who try to put games into time lines also play with their toys like this

>>5739962
Where's the water tho?

>>5739924
From my experience, the people who think this are the younger generation who were from the Wind Waker era. Before that, nobody really questioned the fact that LttP and OoT were prequels. The back of the box and title told us LttP was a prequel, while LttP's NPCs talked about a thief named Ganondorf who transformed into a pig and got sealed away by seven sages. Then OoT had a thief named Ganondorf who transformed into a pig and got sealed away by seven sages. So people just went "oh neat, this is how it happened" and didn't think too hard about it beyond that. This "every game needs to be an unconnected legend" shit started around the time of Wind Waker.

>>5739269
I never connected those dots until I watched a didyouknowgaming video.

But I doubt they planned it that way from the beginning.

>>5739971
not every game has to be unconnected but all games dont need to be connected either,

>>5739935
If you look at the LoZ overworld you can see it's in a state of severe decay. The Lost Woods are all brown and wilted and occupy a very small area. Eons ago they would have taken up half the map, including where the Deku Tree is, but over centuries have died off to just being in that small corner. Without the trees, soil eroded and led to flooding, creating the center lake. In OoT the Deku Tree's clearing was circular and built up around the edges, meaning you couldn't pass. In LoZ the trees are gone, exposing the bare rock of that same circular (square due to NES limitations) area. >>5739942 already pointed to the bridge.

I never gave a fuck about zelda timelines, real or official. It's the donkykong timeline autists that piss me off more

I never gave a fuck about donkykong timelines, real or official. It's the tetris timeline autists that piss me off more

>>5740037
>donkykong timeline autists

This exists? How much debate can there be?

>>5740047
OOK OOK!

>>5739924
The official timeline is autism, but only literal retards can't figure out that Zelda 1 & 2 take place after Link to the Past and Link's Awakening, and those take place after Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.

>>5740037
>>5740046
Haha, very funny fren! Upvoted!

>>5740086
I dont think many people dispute that. Lttp had always been known as a prequel as far as I remember, same with the 64 games. Things didnt start getting autistic until wind waker.

>>5740110
>Things didnt start getting autistic until wind waker.

Coincidentally when Aonuma (hack) took over the series and decided Zelda games should not be about good puzzles or exploration but focused on story and characters because octoroks make him mad.

>>5739313
/thread

>>5740110
I think it's funny that even on the official timeline, it's Wind Waker that's over-complicating everything. If it had decided to just be its own thing, the whole thing would be a lot simpler.

>>5739971
>Before that, nobody really questioned the fact that LttP and OoT were prequels
nobody fucking took it seriously either.
>This "every game needs to be an unconnected legend" shit started around the time of Wind Waker.
No. Everyone knew that calling them "prequels" was bullshit marketing added after the fact and that the worlds and stories themselves were not designed to be connected at all.

>>5740047

>>5740110
>>5740170
Wind Waker is where the devs stopped paying attention to the overall continuity of the series. Then years later they retroactively shoehorned every game into a 3-pronged timeline for no reason.

>>5740191
>No. Everyone knew that calling them "prequels" was bullshit marketing added after the fact and that the worlds and stories themselves were not designed to be connected at all.
You could argue that for LttP in relation to Zelda 1+2, but OoT is pretty blatantly a LttP prequel about the 7 sages and how Ganon became a pigman.

>>5740228
Except for that detail about the sages in LttP being the descendants of the original sages, I can see how it works.

>>5740196
literally unironically no-homo makes more sense than the official zelda timeline

>>5740239
Continuity is never perfect in these games. Like how the Oracle games are full of weird plot holes if you read into them too far, but they're clearly meant to bridge LttP and Link's Awakening.

>>5740196
Is there a Mario timeline?
Because their origin story is only revealed in the opening of the Super Mario Bros Super Show cartoons
>"Found the secret warp zone while working on the drain"
This seems to be contradicted by Yoshi's Island where the baby Mario Bros are already in Dinosaur Land. Before that it was fairly straightforward: The Mario/Donkey Kong war --> Mario Bros (workin' on drains) --> Super Mario Bros (Mario finds the secret warp zone and "Lend the princess a hand in the mushroom land")

>>5740228
fair enough but it still feels like fairy tale logic not real world-building and not an actual "timeline." In other words people didn't take it seriously after the age of 10.

>>5740250
>Continuity is never perfect in these games.
Because they are fairy tales set once upon a time in the magical land of Hyrule. t's like trying to derive continuity from Snow White to Sleeping Beauty to Cinderella. Even if there are callbacks and references present it's not a relevant part of the storytelling.

>>5740145
Worst part is that he had Toon Link spread over all the time lines and suffocate them, instead of just making "Toon Spinoff Timeline".

>>5740308
Even knowing that nintendo made these games with almost no continuity in mind, there's still evident recurring geography, like spectacle rock.

>>5740323
Didn't mean to reply.

>>5740323
I like to think of the games as the legends that would exist in the "real" world of Hyrule. Like what the legends of King Arthur are to England or what Greek myths are to ancient Greece. Hyrule is a land that may or may not have actual magic, and the Zelda games are the stories Hylians pass down among each other about their history and such. Some stories will be more grounded in reality than others, some stories don't quite line up with others, etc. It's how you get stuff like the lore of LttP describing the Master Sword being forged by blacksmiths but then Skyward Sword showing the Master Sword being "forged" by Link's hero journey to the different shrines. Maybe LttP tells us something closer to the real history of Hyrule while Skyward Sword tells us a more romantic/mythic/magic story developed around the origins of the sword, but it's all some variation on an unreliable oral history of Hyrule.

>>5739971
Because around the time of windwaker was when the supposed timeline began to fall apart. People still have no idea where BOTW takes place.

>>5740408
>People still have no idea where BOTW takes place.
Way way after anything else.

>>5740408
Nintendo added BotW to the timeline a couple months after the game came out. The answer is "they all turn into this eventually".

>>5740308
I honestly think swearing this up and down is somehow even more autistic than the actual timeline.

>>5740517
So in other words, they don't care, none of the timelines matter. Well it's obvious they never cared. They never cared when they were actually making the games. They only shoehorned a timeline years later after being badgered to death by autistic fans demanding one. I'm glad they did it in the most convoluted and worse way possible, as a big 'fuck you' to the fans who wouldn't leave them alone.

>>5740540
>They only shoehorned a timeline years later after being badgered to death by autistic fans demanding one.
This is what /v/ tells themselves, but the only thing that was really shoehorned into it was the Wind Waker timeline. If you cut that out and put the nonsensical "hero falls" timeline in its place, there's nothing particularly controversial or unexpected on it. Wind Waker was also the cause for all of the timeline bullshit in the first place, because people were determined to make it fit somewhere even though it really didn't.

>>5740191
>>5740293
Why do people take the Zelda chronology seriously period? It IS throwaway fairy tale video game logic. It's as dumb as >>5740254 or when people try to deconstruct the Donkey Kong timeline which amused me when I think it's being done in a joke but how many more years until there a Marko Historia? These kind of games are not created to be taken seriously.

>>5740590
The whole "splitting into 3 timelines" is what I have a problem with. Why does it need to be so damn complicated? There is nothing in OoT that gives any indication there will be a split timeline. Wind Waker, just throw that shit in at the very end, I don't see the problem. I have no idea why you need 2, let alone 3, timelines to explain this shit, it's not complicated.

>>5740250
Oracle games might as well not even be canon. They weren't even made by Nintendo, they were made by Capcom. Might as well count the CD-i games if that's the case.

Not to mention Capcom just stuffed a bunch of OoT characters directly into the Oracle games despite it making zero sense in ANY timeline. Oh why is Malon on Holodrum? Why does she raise chickens instead of care for horses? Why is windmill music guy there? None of this makes any sense to even the most die hard apologist. They should just exist in their own little bubble universe since Seasons was basically a remake of LOZ1 anyway. Same bosses, same basic plot, tons of LOZ1 references all over. It can't even stand on its own.

>>5739924
That's how I saw it and each retelling had a unique sequel . The timeline shit is nonsensical garbage

Don't know why some people are being anti-lore. It's cool to see connections between the games, whether you make them up or Nintendo does. If it makes things more interesting for a player who cares?

>>5740627
>be so fucking bad at Zelda you invent a timeline where Link dies as being the catalyst
>not branch it off from Zelda 2, the one Zelda game where Link dying has actual effects
Aonuma is a fucking hack

>>5739924
>ALTTP, Link's Awakening, and the Oracle games are all sequels to each other
>Twilight Princess and Wind Waker are explicit sequels to Ocarina of Time
Yeah people get retarded about the timeline, and the official one is a fucking mess, but saying all of them are completely disconnected from each other and/or every one is the same exact legend retold is a straight up lie

>>5740627
I can understand splitting into two timelines. Link leaves the fucked up future where Ganon took over, and goes back in time to his childhood and creates an altered timeline where Ganon is imprisoned before he can accomplish anything. It's the third timeline that gets me, the Link is defeated timeline. That shit doesn't happen, not even if you die to Ganondorf/Ganon in-game. It's literally a "what if" timeline that has no reason to exist

>>5739269
>>5739272
>>5739279
>>5740086
As a Zelda casual who loves ALttP, OoT and MM but never played any of the others, I find this all very interesting. So OoT was, chronologically, the first game in the Zelda universe? This thread has me interested in playing the others now.

>>5740524
You might have a point if the people taking the timeline seriously here were 10 year old kids. Then it would be like insisting that Santa Claus doesn't exist. But a grown adult should understand the concept of a fairy tale (or a legend >>5740345).
Furthermore, people taking timeline shit like this too seriously can suck when writers for future games take things literally that were never meant to be taken literally.

>>5741087
>OoT was, chronologically, the first game in the Zelda universe?
It was meant to be originally, but not since they created the stupid timeline and retconned everything.

>meant to be
this game was made before the deku tree was even a thought, retard

>>5740345
>I like to think of the games as the legends that would exist in the "real" world of Hyrule.
My personal theory is that each entry in the franchise takes place in a video game. This especially adds texture to Link's Awakening, the notion that it takes place within two layers of simulated reality.

>>5739924
This guy is a 100% correct, Zelda doesn't need continuity, a cohesive universe, or make any sense throughout the many games made in the franchise.

Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are obviously two games within the same universe which is great, and Breath of the Wild 2 will probably compliment Breath of the Wild 1 the same way. But this is very rare and Zelda just doesn't lend itself to that kind of storytelling much unless there's still some story to be told.

>>5741259
To be honest, I don't give a shit about the timeline, not for a long time. But fuck me if all the theory-crafting and making connections didn't hit that autism pleasure center in my brain.

Zelda in general is a great series for making the fans speculate, because everything is so minimal in exposition. You wouldn't have people speculating something like "What Forest Temple was?" or "Are the Garo the Termina counterparts to the Sheikah?" in any other series, because the player would have been told in-game.

>>5741259
>Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are obviously two games within the same universe

I get what you're saying but your choice of words is confusing here. MM is about Termina which is an alternate universe of OoT's Hyrule.

>>5741270
>your choice of words is confusing here.
No, it wasn't confusing at all.

>>5741263
There's nothing wrong with putting things together that don't really go together, Zelda games have a lot of nods to previous titles.

>>5741259
>But this is very rare and Zelda just doesn't lend itself to that kind of storytelling
>this is very rare

Uh, no it isn't?
Zelda 2 is a direct sequel to Zelda 1
LttP is a prequel to Zelda 1
LA features the same Link from LttP
OoT is a prequel to LttP
MM is a direct sequel to OoT
TP is a direct sequel to OoT
Wind Waker is a direct sequel to OoT

This shit has been going on since the beginning and it's anything but rare.

>>5740893
>creates an altered timeline where Ganon is imprisoned before he can accomplish anything.

That's where it loses me. That makes no sense. All through OoT it is clear time is linear: you plant a seed as a kid, fast forward 7 years and the seed grew into a sprout. If at the end of the game Link goes back in time he should still grow up and end up in that same place 7 years later, just having not skipped over those years. To say an entirely different timeline i.e., universe spawned out of nothing just because a kid goes back in time (which he has done dozens of times throughout the game already) is retarded.

But it's still not as retarded as what Nintendo wants you to think happens next. So kid Link meets kid Zelda for the first time, tells her what he just went through and I imagine this is the conversation that took place between Zelda and her dad:

"Hey dad, this 8 year old who I just met and grew up as a hobo in the woods just told me he came back through time and the King of the race of people you're currently meeting with ends up doing evil things in the future, even though at this exact second you clearly trust him and he is not explicitly a bad person (yet, but he will be, don't worry!)"

"You make total sense, Daughter. Let us now kill this man, the KING of another race I am currently trying to negotiate peace with. It is totally just to enforce the death penalty on what someone might do years from now, all based on the words of a child you don't know."

>pic of Aonuma jerking himself off to his brilliant writing

Who was link looking for at the beginning of Majora's Mask?

>>5741551
Navi. It even plays her jingle when the text says he left to go look for an old friend.

>>5741573
>Navi
>a friend
No but seriously who was he looking for?

>>5739269
>"""timeline"""
>implying the enablers at Nintendo didn't just arbitrarily nod their head at retarded fan theories cooked up by stunted nerds over the years

Clearest case of "crowd sourced writing" I've ever seen, and one of the most fucktarded examples of such.

>>5740017
You're a moron.

>>5740196
why is the TV show not part of the same timeline as the games what the fuck is this shit

>>5741546
What I'm about to suggest would make more sense if Zelda let Link keep the Ocarina of Time when he returned to childhood (a functional duplicate of the royal family's sacred magical heirloom is pretty damn good evidence of time travel fuckery), but even without that, consider the following scenario:

Zelda presents Link to the king, explaining that he is in possession of all the spiritual stones of the various races of Hyrule. Link comes with a warning against the king of the Gerudo, who the king of Hyrule is currently in negotiations with, explaining what he saw in the future. Now okay, this isn't enough to convict an otherwise-innocent man, but it IS enough to put the king on his toes when dealing with Ganondorf in the future. Now they're not caught off guard when Ganondorf tries to storm the castle and he's stopped, caught, and sentenced as soon as he tries to pull that evil shit.

>>5741717
We need a Sonic timeline that incorporates all the games and TV shows.
All I know is Sonic Underground is a direct sequel to SatAM.

>>5741739
Okay but even then Link only has the Deku stone when he first met Zelda which so what, the tree was dead anyone could have pillaged it if they knew to look for it. I'm actually surprised Ganondorf didn't just go steal it himself, unless he couldn't fit inside the hole.

I have no problem with how Twilight Princess showed it go down and in my mind he was locked out of the sacred realm in OoT due to Link and Zelda now having enough common sense to not open the door for him, so he waited and waited and with no other options said fuck it and brute forced his way and was caught and sentenced. It makes more sense because in TP he looks clearly a lot older than in OoT which to me says he had to wait maybe a decade or more before finally getting caught, so yeah maybe with some slight warning the king could have kept his eye on the guy, but timeline autists >imply he was caught and imprisoned that same day which makes zero sense.

>>5741845
>>imply he was caught and imprisoned that same day which makes zero sense.
Yeah, I agree, that idea is stupid. It's not as if the guards would have grabbed him on the spot and executed him because a couple kids tapped on the window. But there are plenty of reasonable explanations for how Zelda and Link warning the king could still lead to Ganondorf's eventual arrest, even if he didn't completely believe their story on the spot.

>>5741263
Ain't that the truth.

>>5741505
Go back to plebbit, so.y boy

>>5741907
I hate the timeline, too, but let's not pretend that the games were never clearly arranged in a chronological order. Each time a game came out there were interviews where they explained when the new game takes place in relation to the other games. Pretending that never happened is dishonest zoomer revisionism.

>>5740308
This. It's lile forcing the Final Fantasy series to be in a single timelime.

>>5739924
>You people are more autistic than FF8 fans
Bold statement.

>>5741917
It was easy to do when there's only 4-5 games, but then they start releasing games left and right with Oracles, WW, Minish, 4 Swords, all made by different people, no wonder the waters are so muddied now no one can keep track of it, and Nintendo just throws up their hands because honestly, who gives a fuck.

>>5741925
There have been attempts. I still can't get over people think FFX is a prequel to FF7 just because some random ass NPC in X-2 has the name Shinra.

>>5742032
He also gets an Easter egg where he basically says pyreflies could be used as energy or so, aka mako.

>>5741917
>>5741505
>Zelda 2 is a direct sequel to Zelda 1
True
>LttP is a prequel to Zelda 1
It's not a proper "prequel." LttP is supposedly set some vague amount of time before Zelda 1. There is no meaningful connection whatsoever between the two stories.
>LA features the same Link from LttP
Possibly, sure.
>OoT is a prequel to LttP
Once again, not a true prequel. It's just nominally in the same world, set in an earlier time. The stories are not connected, in fact the settings don't even have any meaningful connections.

>A prequel is a literary, dramatic, or cinematic work whose story precedes that of a previous work,[1][2] by focusing on events that occur before the original narrative.[3] A prequel is a work that forms part of a backstory to the preceding work.
>All "prequels" are, by definition, essentially sequels in that they "expand on a previous or preceding work."[4] The term is a 20th-century neologism that is a portmanteau of the prefix "pre-" (from Latin prae, "before") and "sequel".

>>5742115
>LttP mentions Ganondorf being a thief
>OoT reveals Ganondorf as king of thieves and shows his transformation into boar form from LttP
>"the stories are not connected"

If you want your headcanon to be they're all isolated fine but the fact remains OoT was made to be a prequel to LttP showing the rise of Ganon and how he was sealed in and corrupted the sacred realm LttP is all about restoring.

>>5742126
Headcanon is retrofitting an entire universe into one timeline based on superficial details and callbacks.

Yes, they are "tenuously connected." There's a vague sense of order to them. But anything beyond that is >>5739313

>>5742115
>Once again, not a true prequel. It's just nominally in the same world, set in an earlier time. The stories are not connected, in fact the settings don't even have any meaningful connections.
OoT is literally the story of Ganondorf breaking into the Sacred Realm and how he got sealed away there, which is basically the entire backstory of LttP. There are retcons, sure, like how the Sealing War just became Link saving the sages and defeating Ganon, but to say they're not directly connected is ludicrous. Ganondorf's final lines about one day escaping and taking revenge on Link and Zelda's descendants is a direct fucking reference to LttP.

>>5740627
>I have no idea why you need 2, let alone 3, timelines to explain this shit, it's not complicated.

It's because they made OoT as a prequel to LttP but then made two sequels to OoT (WW and TP) that were mutually incompatible with each other and with LttP.

>>5739269
No. It's in a giant lake and the dungeon beneath the tree is a proper building with tons of stonework, mortar, and tile flooring.

>>5739269
That was the idea, originally it was Koizumi who tried to create a story starting on Link's Awakening...

Before that the stories didn't really connected.

Maybe for Z1 and Z2.

So I believe that the true geinous behind the series was Koizume, since OoT wint through 2 directors, and he was one of then.

Aonuma was take on the series was really bad, he tried to connect the games with TWW, but nothing would make sense...

Miyamoto asked for the young Link on OoT, which completely broke the story, and hence created a bunch of plotholes and fucked the "school of magic" since it's missing the Earth (Which I believe was supposed to be the Training grounds)...

What I mean is that OoT was supposed to be the first game, possibly with the Zelda 1 Link.

And then the game was completely changed in multiple ways that ended up something else.

Ultimattely they don't care about timeline anymore, which is pretty sad.

But then... everything should be retconned anyway.

>>5742950
I meant, the ENTRANCE of the training grounds is what I believe that was supposed to be the Earth Temple, and the Wind Temple was supposed to be the Forest Temple...

But if you really think about it, parts of the Wind Temple were reused in the Shadow Temple... the shadow temple was supposed to be the Bottom of the Well.

I think that the Forest Temple was supposed to be the Hyrule Castle where you'd find the Master Sword.

And the Wind theme of the Forest would give it its mystic properties, that ended up in Breath of the Wild.

The Spirit Temple, half of it, was supposed to be the Light Temple, and the other part the Earth Temple...

If you notice there's a Lynel sculptured on the door's ornaments in the first roon of the Training Grounds, that's pretty cool.

The gerudos can't be killed, but only knocked out because it was supposed to be accessed by Young Link using Slingshot...

You see... the game went through so much interations.

When did you realize the entire map from Zelda 1 is shown in Zelda 2?

>>5742926
A linear timeline can work if you accept there are two Ganons. One gets sealed away in pig form in the dark realm and the other is human Dorf form that gets sealed in the Twilight realm earlier in the timeline. Human form breaks out in TP and WW and Pig is the villain of LttP, 1, and 2. Since the games are set centuries apart there's no overlap of them appearing at the same time.

>>5742950
>Koizumi who tried to create a story starting on Link's Awakening
Koizumi wrote all the lore and backstory for LttP. Everything in the LttP manual was his idea and he's basically singlehandedly responsible for all the Zelda lore we're familiar with today. Miyamoto hates storytelling in games, though, so he's always sabotaged Koizumi's work.

>>5743019
The only problem with that is they show Ganondorf transforming into a pig monster in both OoT and in TP, and the end of OoT shows non-pig Ganondorf being sealed away into the Sacred Realm (where Ganondorf then corrupts it into the Dark World). So human Ganondorf and pig monster Ganon must be the same person and it doesn't work for them to exist separately in the same timeline.

There are multiple incarnations of Link, Ganon and Zelda. They incarnate throughout the series to take on those roles. How many times is up to debate.

>>5743041
Yeah, not only Koizumi's but also the Paper Mario team... and he didn't even like DK. I don't know what the Miyamoto's problem is.

I still hate him for not letting Koizumi expand o Mario Galaxy 2 lore/story.

Koizumi basically gave a reason for nonsense planets existing in Mario Galaxy. They were simply creation of Lumas. Which is a great metaphor, because we're made of stardust.

>>5739957
>I'm more baffled than anything
then you're a brainlet. it's easily one of the most interesting subject in video games to interpret. that people are excited to do so should come as no surprise.

>>5740627
>There is nothing in OoT that gives any indication there will be a split timeline.
You mean other than Zelda sending Link back in time for the explicit purpose of staying awake during his teen years, because that didn't happen in the timeline they were in? Even back when Majora's Mask came out, people quickly pieced together that the timeline split because LttP was talking about the shit where Ganondorf got sealed, while Majora's Mask picked up directly from the final scene (and Link seemed to manage to stop Ganondorf before he could do anything particularly awful, or else he would just be leaving the guy on the castle to go on a journey).

>>5739269
>trying to retcon shit into your headcanon
You’re literally autistic.

>>5741546
>All through OoT it is clear time is linear
Link never went far enough back in time to redo anything he'd already experienced. He was only able to pick up back when he last drew the master sword and do more stuff before going to sleep. Whatever the fuck Zelda did sent him ALL the way back to the beginning of the game, so whatever rules the other type of time travel was using are out the window.

>>5743047
>the end of OoT shows non-pig Ganondorf being sealed away into the Sacred Realm

I always took that be his essence or spirit, not his phsyical body, which is permanently a pig. It's just me maybe, but I don't like the idea of him being able to switch back and forth at will. Him drawing on the full power of the Triforce of Power to become a pig was a double sided sword: it gave him the power he sought, but also cursed him to being a pig beast that he now has to live with. It distorted him just like it distorted the entire sacred realm into the dark world. It would take someone like Link to come along and free him and restore him and I don't think Link wants to do that.

>>5743059
There's supposed to be only one Ganon, the same petty asshole each time.

>>5743238
By default then LOZ Link is the most powerful Link of all because he reduces him to ashes and he never comes back after that. Unless you die in AOL which you really shouldn't be doing.

>>5739924
>You people are more autistic than FF8 fans
>>5739959
>You can say that shit when LoZ has a Balamb Garden incident.
>>5742031

What are you people talking about?

>>5739269
>LoZ takes place at end of timeline
>dead giant tree you can enter
>dungeon underneath
>starter dungeon in both games

You've made a lot of assumptions there. Just because it makes sense doesn't mean it's true.

>>5743369
>You've made a lot of assumptions there.

>LoZ takes place at end of timeline
Check
>dead giant tree you can enter
Looks dead to me
>dungeon underneath
Indisputable
>starter dungeon in both games
You can play zelda 1's levels out of order, but it still level 1.

>>5743229
Hey don't get me wrong, I also prefer that idea and wish it were the case, I just don't think it's what Nintendo had in mind and it's pretty clear to see that they decided Ganondorf could switch at will with magic from OoT onward.

>>5743183
The real problem is Wind Waker and its spin-offs with the stupid "hero died" timeline. OoT having 2 timelines is pretty clean-cut, the "future" ending leads directly into LttP, and the "past" ending can strike out into new territory like Twilight Princess. It's easy to follow and makes perfect sense. But then you start creating what-if timelines like "hero died" and it becomes nonsensical spaghetti.

>>5743369
>>5743553
Don't forget that the tree has eyes and in Wind Waker the Deku Tree is on an island just like that. Now, obviously it wasn't the ORIGINAL intention, but it's clear that when they made the later games they looked at that tree and decided to provide us with backstory for it in the form of the Deku Tree.

>>5742950
I want Koizumi to have his hands on another Zelda. LA and MM are great

>>5743687
I don't even think two timelines make sense. Nintendo should just come right out and say there never was a plan, they made it up as they went along, and games X,Y,Z are in a totally different continuity than A,B,C.

From what I heard Nintendo prefers to take an idea or gimmick first and build a game around that, and then the story comes last depending on how they can fit it in. Sakurai I think said he never intended for Kid Icarus Uprising to be a Kid Icarus game at first. He just came up with a cool flight mechanic and as an afterthought figured KI would be a good fit for it. Seems Zelda works largely the same. They came up with some wind and sailing idea and were like, "fuck we need a big title for the Gamecube let's make it a Zelda. Why is the world flooded? Uh... worry about it later"

>>5743251
That's because he was the only version of Link who realized that Light Arrows don't do shit and used Silver instead.

>>5744082
>That's because he was the only version of Link who realized that Light Arrows don't do shit and used Silver instead.
So you never played LttP?

>>5744085
Oh, were those also the silver arrows? I thought they were called magic arrows or something. My mistake.

>>5744035
I don't think anyone is claiming the Zelda games were ever planned out in advance. When they're making a game, they just at some point go "hey, wouldn't it be cool to do a game that took place back during the time of Ganondorf the Thief?" or "what if we start out this game with the Young Link from the end of OoT leaving Hyrule on a quest?". A timeline just ends up forming naturally. The issue just comes from Wind Waker going "let's make a game that took place hundreds of years after OoT and the world got flooded" and inadvertently creating something that doesn't really "fit".

Also, Dragon Quest 3 did the whole "the third game in the series is a prequel to the first two" thing and was wildly popular in Japan. That's probably the reason LttP and Castlevania both decided to jump on and do the same.

It's obvious that they started out trying to make some sort of cohesive timeline but over time they either stopped caring or realised it was restricting where they could take the story and characters. Certainly with regards to the latest games (not /vr/ I know) I think nothing is lost whatsoever by the fact that they don't fit logically with any of the previous ones. They're standalone experiences, which is the only way the series will thrive as opposed to being suffocated by its own backstory.

>>5741546
OoT's time travel isn't completely linear. There's the case of the man in the windmill who is taught the song of storms by child Link, but child Link only knows the song by learning it from the man in the future.

>>5743121
>HURR How can you not enjoy stacking random shit in ascending order?!

because I'm not on the spectrum. I'd rather just play the game than sperg out about it online with autists

>>5746367
When I was a kid I thought the kid who taught the man the Song of Storms was some other kid with a magic flute that you never meet who came along sometime right after you got the Master Sword.

>>5746367
The Master Quest silver gauntlet chest in the spirit temple has to be spawned by the adult to be opened as a kid WHICH MAKES NO SENSE

>>5746757
S-same... *hangs head retardedly*

>>5746780
I'm glad I wasn't the only one.

>>5739269
Deku tree and his four sons

>>5746367
>>5746757
Me too. I never understood this part of the game and it confused the hell out of me. It's like Link is seeing the effect of something he hasn't even done yet. So what is it implying, fate is real, he has no other choice but to one day play that song for him as a kid? Kind of weird since technically that part is entirely optional. I feel like maybe they messed up and had future music man be angry and didn't program the trigger for it to occur only after the player did it as a kid, though then again the whole reason you would even think to do it at all is because he says a kid played the song. It's like a weird paradox. Also weird that he doesn't recognize Link as an adult since he's got the same clothes on basically.

>>5746725
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_recognition_(psychology)

>>5739269
The original 'Zelda' takes place on Death Mountain...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2018/06/23/the-original-the-legend-of-zelda-was-set-on-death-mountain-from-a-link-to-the-past/#754519221020

https://zeldauniverse.net/2018/06/22/the-original-legend-of-zelda-takes-place-on-death-mountain-confirms-zelda-encyclopedia/

... the Deku Tree isn't on Death Mountain, ergo you're wrong.

>>5747423
But that's wrong. You even hear the ocean waves crashing against the shore when you're at the east side of the map in Zelda 1, which is a map detail Zelda 2 shows.

>>5747423
I don't remember the Lost Woods being on Death Mountain.

>>5746725
Why are you even here?

>>5739971
this. growing up everyone knew and understood the timeline.
>>5739971
>>5740110
>>5740170
>>5740207
>>5740408
all of these are correct. Wind Waker started the split timeline nonsense. The intro tells how its the same Link vs Ganon story over and over but one time Link ghosted.
Then TP came out with no references to any of it.
WW got ds sequels that run theyre own timeline.
Minish Cap goes back to explain why Link always wears a green cap. SS explains the master sword.
BotW is in its own time with new lore that doesnt connect to anything. Its also getting its own direct timeline sequel.

I guess you can say MM started what the timeline split but WW really ran with it being the stories are split timelines mess now.

>>5747550
Truly Toon Link ruins everything

>>5747550
>Then TP came out with no references to any of it.
There's an entire series of cutscenes detailing Ganondorf's arrest, sentencing, and imprisonment, clearly set as a follow-up to the child timeline in OoT when Link comes back and he and Zelda warn the king that Ganondorf is up to no good.

>>5747550
>I guess you can say MM started what the timeline split
No, not really. MM's story is, "The Hero of Time saved the world and now he's setting off on a new journey." No split timelines needed, it was truly WW that started it just as you suggested.

>>5747423
It's not like they haven't completely fucked with the geography of Hyrule like they have the timeline.

>>5747423
Reminder that Hyrule Historia wasn't written by anyone at Nintendo. It was only given a final approval by Nintendo after some hired out ghost writer finished it, so it's more than likely the writer(s) just made shit up that was never originally intended but which Nintendo simply didn't feel was offensively inconsistent enough to merit turning down.

>>5749698
Just shows Nintendo honestly doesn't care one way or another and Historia is just glorified fan fiction.

Reminded me of this quote from IGA about Castlevania:

>WN: I've wanted to ask this for a while: what do you think, in the whole history of Castlevania, was the worst decision anybody ever made about the series?

>KI: Probably when we put out the timeline. Because since Dracula only appears every 100 years, we made the whole timeline and ran out of places to put in another game. I made the timeline, but I shouldn't have actually released it, because now it's all official. That was a bad decision.

https://www.wired.com/2007/10/interview-iga-t/

Even this guy knows timelines are stupid.

>>5749726
In this case, the timeline doesn't irritate him because he thinks it's stupid, but because the timeline they released stops them from going back and retconning new games in between the old ones while hoping nobody notices. That's an issue Zelda doesn't have, since they're always ambiguous about how much time passes between each game.

>>5747550
>Then TP came out with no references to any of it.
It had a few references that actually made me warm up to the idea of a split timeline because of the way TP presented it. When I saw Hero's Shade I liked how they put neat little nods that he was Child Link who had been turned into a Stalfos after wandering around the Lost Woods. I was kind of on board with the idea of using the split timeline to continue the "darker timeline" and then having another "lighter timeline" so people wouldn't complain about the series being too dark or too light-hearted. And having them still vaguely connected whilst keeping certain elements (like Majora and the Twili) being referenced in each timeline as a callback without ruining the tone of the game (like a lighter timeline link referencing Majora). So I was on board with that idea...until Nintendo made Breath of the Wild and pretty much said "all timelines merge into one" making the split timeline completely fucking pointless. Thanks Nintendo.

>>5747671
This.

>>5749726
>>5749763
>and retconning new games in between the old ones while hoping nobody notices
They could literally make a game about the Demon Castle War of 1999 tho. The potential is right there. That was literally the best possible finale and send-off to Castlevania one could make.

>>5749763
>Dracula rises only but once every hundred years!
>and like all those other times because jesus christ he sure comes back a lot

>>5750531
>until Nintendo made Breath of the Wild and pretty much said "all timelines merge into one" making the split timeline completely fucking pointless. Thanks Nintendo.
I think Nintendo just got fed up with timeline autism and wanted a clean slate.

>>5739935
How's it feel being assraped by >>5739942

>>5740893
The Link defeated is literally every timeline where something goes even slightly off. It might as well be the "Link is lazy and stays in bed" timeline. It's the absolute most likely one to happen imo it's also the most interesting sets of Hyrule as far as the timelines go

>>5739279
Well, inside the Volcano you can see Spectacle Rock.

The Fire Temple also has that twin towers design which implies it takes place inside spectacle rock.

>>5753929
>inside the Volcano you can see Spectacle Roc

What? Really? I never noticed this. Anyone got a pic?

>>5753935
This is inside the Death Mountain crater and just outside the Fire Temple.

>>5739269

when LoZ came out there was no such thing as a timeline

>>5740017

>projecting soil erosion onto an 8-bit game to justify your time-line autism

:)

>>5739924
>What the fuck is wrong with just saying, "It's the same story retold over and over again as new technology allows for more in-depth realizations"?

This is what BotW did, kek. Now every game is, canonically, a legend.

>>5754238
Then why is Lon Lon Ranch's ruins in BoTW?

>>5754251
There are tons of visual references to past games in BotW, leading one to question how much of past games is truth and how much is legend within the world of BotW.

>>5754251
Because references. It doesn't make any sense anyway, considering OoT happened before the first calamity, which was 10.000 years before BotW.
That would make Lon Lon ranch more than 10.000 years old. Complete nonsense.

>>5750531
>When I saw Hero's Shade I liked how they put neat little nods that he was Child Link who had been turned into a Stalfos after wandering around the Lost Woods.

First time I've heard that idea. I don't hate it.

>>5743364
It's an ancient internet urban legend from the early 00s. Some guy killed himself (and possibly other people) because he was convinced that he would wake up in Balamb Garden with the cast of FF8.

>>5751010
IIRC, there was a large enough number of people refusing to play Triforce-Heroes because of not knowing where it fit into the timeline that Nintendo was forced to actually comment on it.

>>5755626
More like because it was a shitty game so Nintendo tried to increase sales by going "No look it's IN THE TIMELINE YOU GOTTA PLAY IT"

>>5755626
This can't be real, how could anyone possibly that autistic, let alone tons of them? That's like refusing to play SMB2 because it was just a dream and "never really happened".

>>5740254
at the end of Yoshi's Island the Marios are returned to human parents in Brooklyn.

>>5756019
But Brooklyn is in the real world, and in the real world women poop out babies themselves, not have them delivered by birds. Something doesn't add up.

>>5756019
You sure about that?