/vr/ - Retro Games

America for innovation.
Japan for refinement.
Europe for laughing at how shitty they could make a videogame.

I love how when they say "Europe" they always mean "Britain" and ignore the many excellent French games and studios.

>>5726765
This but switch America with Japan and then America again with Yurop.

>>5726780
I loved Croutons Quest 2, was right up there with Baguette Battlers as another French classic.
As for OP, Japanese good games outnumber American good games 100 to 1, they just didn't have the same industry or possibilities from Famicom onwards.

Do Americans unironically believe that they were even remotely comparable to Japan? What did they even make? Doom, Doom clone and Doom clone 2: Electric Boogaloo?

I associate American games with like Ultima.
I associate Japan with JRPGs and anime games.
I associate Europe with weird PC games coming to consoles and running slowly.

Overall if I could only play 1, it'd be Japan because I enjoyed their stuff the most.

When I was a kid playing NES and Super / Genesis, I remember all Eurozone games featured dripping pipes as level hazards and in American or Japanese games, they were there for flavor only, so anytime I got dripped on and lost HP, I'd immediately assume it was a Commodore, ZX-Spectrum kinda game, some odd PC thing that got marginally improved and ported.

>>5726752
What country is that on the right?

>>5726752
>>5726780
>>5726806
The only one that matters is America.

>>5726806
The personal computer game industry was born on the Apple II more or less. Adventure, CRPG, strategy, all these began there and were extensions of games played by students on university mainframes.

The US had the most innovation but also the least cute game design.

>>5726797
>they just didn't have the same industry or possibilities from Famicom onwards.

>>5726834
Don't forget simulation. Americans made the best sim games.

That probably came out of the gaming culture at universities. Americans were big on trying to simulate reality. Japanese gaming design was cutesy because it was tied into manga culture. Europeans mostly just felt like they were poorly copying Japanese game design.

Euros didn't have a console or arcade culture, their games were low budget home computer titles cranked out assembly line style.

>another westaboo vs weaboo thread
>>>/v/

>>5726765
fpbp I don't even feel compelled to come up with a topper for this it has everything - an accurate assessment of the basic difference in American and Japanese games plus a shit on Europe.

But fuck it let's restate anyway. America created the concept of video games, pretty much every original genre and even to this day most games that attempt to blend and bend genres are usually American.

Japan is able to more accurately see what's good about a certain genre (especially what appeals to the Eastern Mind), crank that up and continuously strive toward achieving the "perfect" form of a game while Americans are more likely to just make radical departures on account of the creative drive.

So basically you need both. Americans to stumble upon greatness then Japanese to really see and cultivate that greatness.

>>5726896
At least we can agree that palshit is shit.

Innovation isn't a thing you find in Eastern cultures so much. They like to perfect what they have but dislike radical changes to the status quo.

>>5726787
>Europe
>refining anything
Are you retarded or just a Europleb?

>>5726752
>two countries and a continent of countries
Britbongs actually had a pretty good run, at least better than any other EU country.

>>5726917
yeah you can laugh at them but their software industry and gaming press was leagues above anything on the continent for budget and sophistication. here in Spain it was a total joke. Magazines were complete garbage. They'd hire some random nerds off the street to have them write articles and a lot of times offer advice to beat a game that didn't even work.

The better question is how come only Anglos and Japs could make good videogames.

>>5726925
I'm not really laughing at britbongs, but rather was trying to give them a little bit of praise while pointing out that two separate countries are going up against 28 countries (and still winning).

>>5726928
It all goes through the US. Japan and the US shared the NTSC TV standard which made localization of games easier. Britain has a shared language with the US. Other countries (eg. continental Europe) were isolated from America due to both language barrier and incompatible TV standards.

>>5726925
>go to your local arcade
>play some jap cabinet
>copy the basic gameplay
>make a game out of it
Spanish industry in a nutshell.

>>5726928
>What is France

>>5726963
>>What is France
A country full of frog eating surrender monkeys?

>>5726765
>>5726901
The accurate analysis.

>>5726963
For Eastern Europe it was even worse.

Arcade culture is a major part of Japan, that makes for a big difference. Most of the great arcade companies are/were Japanese.

This thread is full of people who don't know shit.

What is Infograms?
What is Adventure Soft?
What is Blue Byte?
What is Piranha Bites?

Don't be so ignorant and uneducated. Seems like you all just play on consoles. Europe loved home computers.
Remember computers, the master race? Europe has always been there.

>>5727025
>What is Infograms?
>What is Adventure Soft?
>What is Blue Byte?
>What is Piranha Bites?
You tell us, bong. What games did they make that are worth remembering?

>>5727038
>Infogrames
>British
...

>>5727025
>Remember computers, the master race? Europe has always been there.
But not before Americans invented the things and computer gaming itself. The Apple II and TRS-80 were out when Clive Sinclair was still peddling calculator kits. Europe didn't have a home computer industry until the early 80s.

>>5727040
Never heard of them, just assuming. Feel free to grace me with some of the classics I missed out on.

>>5727020
I agree, we pretty much just had Atari, B-M, and Williams and none of them were particularly relevant post-crash.

Gee, I wonder how this thread will go...

I associate American games with DOS and Win9x and thought in the 90s, and continue to think, that jrpgs are fischer price toys. The japs also had zero answer to early fps/flightsims of the time.
That said as a kid I was also into platformers, fighting games, and beat em ups which the Japs just did plain better. I always viewed Mortal Kombat as a hyperviolent marketing ploy, style over substance.
I guess this is a roundabout way to say it depends on the platform and genre.

>>5726931
To be fair the US is more like 50 countries that decided to form one big country.

>>5727057
I've never liked FPSes or flight sims anyway.

>>5726765
>Worms Armageddon
>shitty
lol anon. It's literally the best game ever made for at least a hundred reasons i can think on top of my head and I'm not even british

>>5727065
You are only a citizen of the United States of America and a resident of a state. It's different, and the EU wasn't even founded until the 90s.

>>5726806
Friendly reminder that if JRPG exists nowadays is thank to America. I know I hate those damn burgers but it's a matter of being fair with them. Even fucking Wizardry is still being played in Japan, they even bought the rights to make an anime because of how much that series stuck with them.

>>5727078
They took CRPGs, made them cuter, more accessible, and easier to play. Most 80s CRPGs are like some kind of Skinner box posing as a game.

>>5727071
It's no Scorched Earth, to be honest. Is Wendell Hickens an aussie?

>>5726752
The UK and the entire EU's games were pretty much complete Dog Shit.

>>5727084
I think my dark dungeon full of long-legged spiders and elves with big bobs is cute too, fuck off. If by "more accessible/easier to play" you mean noob friendly I agree with you though. Seriously though, I'm not against their games because there is potential but fuck me, there's no inbetween regarding difficulty, even the MegaTen series is too easy when I get the gist of it. I just want my thailandese children and overall pedophile friendly games that not only stimulates my peepee but my brain too.

>>5727092
>Scorched Earth
That game is obsolete, deal with it. WA it's the only worms game being still alive online to this day because how good and refined it is. I saw maps made with faces of duki nuki, I saw schemes that ranged over completely different game genres... And even if you don't want to customize your game (which is dumb because it's literally all in-game, easy and intuitive editing), you can still have fun both if you're noob or a veteran. Can Scorched Penis do that? Can it? Can you rename your team and call it "jews" with adolf hitler as your very first worm? Can you? When you die do you have a tombstone of a penis? Can you yell niggers with soundbanks?

>>5727112
>Can it?
With your kind of autism, anything is possible.

Reminder that America invented the internet so any game with online multiplayer is thanks to America.

>>5726765
Wipeout, Tomb Raider, and GTA. Basically the games that sold the original PlayStation to the rest of the world. All Eurofag games. It wasn't Solid Snake, Crash Bandicoot, or Cloud Strife that adorned the covers of pop culture magazines across the globe, it was Lara Croft. Only the Nips have had more of a cultural impact. The Burgers and their gay little 2600? Don't make me laugh. The PlayStation was 100 times more mainstream. Wait, did I say Eurofag? I actually meant BONGS. You're welcome, by the way. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA! Cope! Seethe! Suck my big British balls, you bunch of worthless Burger chuds! XD

I should show you some comparison videos of how bland American C64 games looked and sounded compared to PAL ones.

>>5727140
Euros were good programmers, not good game designers.

>>5727137
GTA wasn't relevant until PS2 and only racing fags care about Wipeout. But Rare was great and even Virgin Interactive had British developers. OP definitely wasn't British or else he would have just put them up there instead of the EU.

>>5727118
Seems like you can't, then. No need to show your burned ass so easily

>>5727137
>muh gaystation
Yurops were so worthless they couldn't even make their own PC/console and had to dev on superior American/Japanese hardware. Sad!

>>5727137
Tomb Raider and Wipeout have shit gameplay and GTA is a meme series, like all sandbox junk. Were you intentionally trying to make Britfags look worse?

>>5727167
They had the Spectrum and Amstrad. :^)

>>5727179
Don't forget UFO: Enemy Unknown, awful game, you never see threads on it here for good reason.

>Europe didn't have any good game developers...

Adventure Soft
Bitmap Brothers
Bullfrog
Codemasters
Core Design
Creative Assembly
Cryo Interactive
Digital Illusions
Eurocom
Gremlin Interactive
Infogrames
Ocean
Psygnosis
Rage Software
Rare
Rebellion
Revolution Software
SCEE Cambridge
Stainless Games
Ubisoft

>>5727285
all shit except bullfrog and maybe rareware

Alone in the Dark
Populous
UFO Enemy Unknown (known as X-Com in the US)
Elite
Cannon Fodder
Turrican

All classic European games.

>>5726901
we'd respect you a lot more if you didn't namefag all the time you big loser

>>5726752
Japan, no question.

>>5726806
Exactly. It's fucking pathetic. Americans hate when somebody does something better.

>>5727297
^This. Most of them are Zniggy-grade developers and Rare's pre-Battletoads games were pretty simplistic.

>>5727140
>>5727148
You ended up with something like Flimbo's Quest that hardly had any gameplay because their cool SID tune and all the graphics effects ate most of the memory.

>>5726752
My favorite Zed Ex games, I pity you americans for not having played them:
Mr Bollocks' Freaky Pudding
Willy Dicky and the Jammy Dodgers
Manic Bongus and the Penis Pongus
Bubble and Squeak 2: The Sticky Banoffee Whillamawizzer
Chuckie Fuckie and the Argie Bargie
Dizzy Egg vs Margie Thatcher
Turd Trouble

Since the 5th gen Europe is the best.
Can you guess my favorite genre?

>>5727430
I forgot Foetus Faeries

Since this is just a thinly veiled country shitflinging thread anyway—what the fuck is wrong with you Brits and your cuisine? Toast sandwich? Pic related abomination? It's like you have literally no concept of what makes a meal look appetizing.

>>5727407
Rare took a long time to get out of that low budget British home computer mentality. Most of their NES games were within the 64k-128k range, Battletoads was kind of their big showpiece finale before moving on to the SNES.

>>5727445
The presentation isn't all that appealing, but seems like a pretty hearty breakfast to me. Don't know if I'd eat the blood sausage, but everything else looks fine.

>>5727457
I mean, I'm sure it tastes good and is nutritionally sound, but at least attempt some basic fucking presentation.

Chris Stamper: "When you're making a £40 cartridge as opposed to a £12 cassette game, you're going to put more work into it. Nintendo's requirements were much stricter than anything we'd dealt with before. Requiring games to be bug-free? We all laughed, we thought it was impossible. Yet we managed."

>>5727148
Tech demos posing as a game.

>>5727148
Literally this. I remember sitting through a series about Sonic 3D Blast, and how the programming tricks they used were completely mindblowing, but then I remembered "Oh yeah, this is fucking Sonic 3D Blast."

>>5727487
Indeed.

Even the vaunted Mayhem in Monsterland has meh gameplay.

>>5727156
Racing fags don't care about Wipeout. it's mainstream gamers' game.

>>5726834
At some point during the 60s, the government began requiring engineering students to take a programming course. The games they played on mainframes like Star Trek and Colossal Cave Adventure were quickly ported to the early microcomputers.

This thread has inspired me to do detailed breakdowns of shitty game consoles from the 90s.

Atari Jaguar - terribad America centric console
> shitty custom chips which led to mass hardware failures and required Carmack level programming skills to do anything with
> dumb keypad controller relic from the 80s and hardware specifically built to push flat shaded polygons that was instantly dated on release (the design spec dates back to the pre-Wolfenstein 3D era)
> notable for its extreme lack of creativity e.g. 3 separate first party Mortal Kombat clones, and several half assed racing games (including two very similar looking 3D racers released on literally the same day)
> the few games that approach any sort of quality are playable on a better console
> to this day you see retarded boomers singing the praises of the jaguar and claiming it had major untapped potential which could have competed with the PS1. I actually know what I'm talking about and the objective truth is, it had no potential and was shit from the beginning
Rating: 1/10

CD32 - Eurocentric console
> consolized Amiga, if that wasn't obvious. Can be turned into a real Amiga with peripherals.
> a good half of the library are derivative 2D platformers a la >>5727430
> infamous bottom tier version of Battletoads
> most games are half assed Amiga ports, regardless of quality
> a few games are good, and they are also on better platforms
> "The Final Gate" is so bad its good
> FM Towns Marty was conceptually very similar but even worse as it was just a stripped down PC for people who wanted to play Towns games but couldn't afford the whole computer, there were no games specifically for it but it was a crapshoot whether any particular game would work or not
Rating: 2/10

>>5727834
Pippin - designed by Apple but it was Bandai's idea since they needed a console to push their shitty anime licenses. So it's technically American but the majority of the library is Japanese.
> another highly retarded "crippled PC" design with no dedicated chips and everything running off the CPU, plus a modem for some reason. They also decided that it needed to run Mac OS in the background, which ate up most of the RAM. Even more retarded and lazy than the FM Towns Marty and Amiga CD32.
> known for its large amount of crappy anime licenses and "multimedia" discs
> however, there were also several highly artistic and creative titles released for it with nice looking CG, like Gadget, a game heavily inspired by classic Russian cinema, Jungle Park, an open world walking sim type game with minigames made by the same guys who later made Cubivore, Tunin Glue, a unique experimental music creation tool by NanaOnSha (Parappa the Rapper devs), Victorian Park, a point and click adventure game which reminds me of 7th Guest but in a carnival setting
> these games are not like Myst btw, none of these games are similar to Myst other than that they are point and click, Myst has interconnected logically consistent environmental and mechanical puzzles, you morons call a game Myst clone if it contains the tower of Hanoi and sliding tiles. You haven't played Myst, you're too retarded to complete Myst without a guide. Stop saying every point and click game is Myst you fucking DDIQ plebs.
> anyway theres a bunch of Pippin games like that, none of them are "import friendly" though and the games are legit rare, probably the hardest system to collect for
> notable American titles include: shitty ports of Bungie's Marathon games, a Power Rangers platformer, and an FMV vampire game.
Rating: 2/10

>>5726780
The only good European retro games were made in Britain, which had a strong gaming industry in the 90's. France made pretentious arthouse garbage with terrible gameplay.

>>5727835
CDi - Eurocentric console
> gets a pass since it wasn't conceived as a game console
> number of interesting games is roughly equivalent to Pippin, but the larger library makes the ratio more embarrassing
> highlights include Burn Cycle, the infamous Zelda games, the 3 Funhouse games created by Cliff Johnson, and exclusive best versions of several games which use the MPEG cart such as The 7th Guest, Brain Dead 13, Lost Eden
> a bunch of multimedia bullshit if you're into that, it might be educational or something.
Rating: 3/10

Laseractive - fully Japanese console
> prerendered rail shooter: the console
> if you like flashy arcade games from the 90s that you play once and never again, you MIGHT like this
> there is one RPG, but it's dogshit
> the one racing game is okay at best but hard as fuck and requires memorizing the later tracks
> Ghost Rush is a dungeon crawler with randomized maps and is decent once you figure it out
> best versions of the JB Harold games, a bit tedious for me but a lot of ppl like them
> most of the games were localized
> also contains a fair amount of multimedia bullshit
Rating: 3/10

>>5727840
3DO - highly America centric, but received a decent amount of Japanese support
> made by the same designers of the Amiga. unlike Atari Jaguar the design was actually really solid and ahead of its time. for starters it had rudimentary texture mapping support, and while it didn't have "real" 3d rendering like the PS1 did (it used distorted quads like the Saturn) it was superior in many other aspects, including native 640x480 output, native disc streaming, more efficient VRAM, and an extremely flexible sound chip. games which were ported from 3DO to elsewhere usually had to be compromised or heavily reworked due to lacking the 3DO's specific hardware features.
> suffered from much the same lack of creativity in its library as the Jaguar, however this was mitigated by the better specs along with extensive EA support (note for zoomers: old school EA was good) and other standouts like Star Control 2
> ironically several of the shittier games came from 3DO themselves
> broke vidya tradition with all the best games on the system being of western origin, with Japanese games being either irredeemably shitty (Seal of the Pharaoh, Neo Organic Bioform, most of the WARP games), a good concept with questionable execution (Doctor Hauzer, Guardian War, Dragon Tycoon Edge) or "that one port no one played" (Policenauts, Super Street Fighter II)
Rating: 4/10

>>5727834
>>5727835
>>5727840
How the fuck is the Jaguar rated less than the Apple or Laseractive which had no games. At least the Jaguar had SOME games.

>>5727841
When I started writing this I figured Japan would be the clear winner, but thinking about it more objectively it was closer than I thought. The Jaguar and CD32 were generically shit, the Pippin can be considered "hipster" shit to play underpowered hipster CG games, I feel like the CDi doesn't really count towards anything, the FM Towns Marty doesn't count either though nothing exceptional ever came out for it anyway, the Laseractive titles had high production FMV but were still shit. Technically Japan won the bottom tier console war, but America came out on top with the mid-tier 3DO, as there were no particularly good Japanese exclusives for it, and most of the good games came from EA (not just "good for the 3DO" either, I'm talking about legit good vidya) and even the "triple B" FMV games like Psychic Detective and Sewer Shark were playable and fun in their own way. You could make the argument that none of these consoles were good enough to attract top Japanese talent and that the top devs stuck with their own japanese consoles, but that may be oversimplifying things. Also we haven't even gone into PC gaming which was, until very recently, the west having all of the top tier games, and 90% of Japan's PC market being R18 visual novels, hardcore autism sim games, and Falcom, regardless of which computer they were using.

In the end I'll say that a healthy balanced vidya diet should consist of 75% Japanese games and 25% games by western insects. That is my highly scientific conclusion.

>>5727843
The Pippin had more releases than the Jaguar. I know that you are an ignorant western insect but I would at least ask you to please save yourself from embarrassment in the future by always regarding my posts as 100% correct going forward

>>5727857
>know that you are an ignorant western insect
AirCars
Alien vs Predator (Atari Jaguar game)
Atari Karts
Battlemorph
BattleSphere
Blue Lightning (1995 video game)
Breakout 2000
Bubsy in Fractured Furry Tales
Checkered Flag (1994 video game)
Club Drive
Cybermorph
Defender 2000
Fight for Life (video game)
Highlander: The Last of the MacLeods
Hover Strike
Hover Strike: Unconquered Lands
Hyper Force
I-War (1995 video game)
Iron Soldier
Iron Soldier 2
Kasumi Ninja
Mad Bodies
Missile Command 3D
Power Drive Rally
Protector (Atari Jaguar game)
Ruiner Pinball
Skyhammer
Super Burnout
Supercross 3D
Trevor McFur in the Crescent Galaxy
Ultra Vortek
Val d'Isère Skiing and Snowboarding
White Men Can't Jump (video game)
World Tour Racing
Zero 5 (Atari Jaguar game)

>>5727445
Autism: the nation

USA invented most PC-centric genres, Japan invented most console-centric genres. USA has always been about realism/simulation/freedom of choice, Japan has always been about stylization/arcade mechanics/aesthetic storytelling

Not even gonna touch Europe

>>5727863
You might actually have a point.
>don't care about outward appearances
>stick to habits even in the face of better practices (basic presentation)
Japs or Brits, taking all bets.

>>5727869
>Not even gonna touch Europe
Poorly copying the Japanese aesthetic.

>>5727285
>Ubisoft
Did they actually develop any games? I thought they just published games.

>>5727838
>France made pretentious arthouse garbage with
That was all you needed to say.

>>5727895
>muh Rayman
>muh failed gilets jaune
Fuck France.

80s British games were very LOLsorandumb and their aesthetics rooted heavily in punk rock/lad culture. You had to be there to appreciate it.

>>5727909
I recently watched a movie about the Beetles literally running around randomly getting chased by cops in some sort of Benny Hill scenario. I hate to D&C, but you faggots probably deserve your muslim epidemic.

>>5727838
You realize that Another World is one of the most influential games ever made and directly inspired Hideo Kojima, Fumito Ueda, and countless other top tier game devs, right? ...No? Well, you do now.

French developers were master craftsmen, it's too bad Anglos don't know/appreciate them.

>>5727869
The first big box game (as opposed to being made by one guy) was King's Quest, followed by (I think) Summer Games. This was during that point in the mid-80s when gaming was transitioning to big cinematic epics instead of single screen games with a black background.

>>5727916
The early beetles that youre talking about were great. Before they met Bob Dylan and smoked weed.

>>5726752
I've always thought that America (and also probably Europe) had this toxic fascination with the 'Idea' of video games that poisoned a lot of their game design philosophy. Like, early PC game design was basically "how can I get my computer to do D&D?" and cRPG development has only advanced as far as they could incorporate western game design's overall dumb fascination with creating virtual worlds. Meanwhile Japanese devs were considered so valuable at 'Doing Their Jobs' that they wouldn't even use their real names in games to prevent the competition from stealing them.

It makes me wonder about the effects of disparate economic situations on game design philosophies. During the video game crash a lot of game companies were being run by amateurs but, around the time Nintendo became a big success and therefore brought investor money back into gaming, Japan was able to create a hyper-professional workforce, often headed by the old creative amateurs giving the programmers direction.

Meanwhile, everywhere else, cash-starved devs would've been put on the path of disruption, or in other words: "how can I use fancy technology to trick rich boomer engineers and ignorant wall-street investors into giving my company of total amateurs a shit-load of money to make laserdisk games?". You'll note that few western retro game devs still exist despite western devs controlling most of the current marketshare (disruption eventually did pay off thanks to 3D graphics, boundless media storage capacity, and internet multiplayer).

>>5727931
I'm pretty sure that this movie I'm talking about was at the beginning of their popularity. Either way, they're the most inorganic, (((forced))) meme in the history of music.

>>5727932
>Meanwhile Japanese devs were considered so valuable at 'Doing Their Jobs' that they wouldn't even use their real names in games to prevent the competition from stealing them.
Maybe not the gaming industry but in the application software industry this isn't a rare practice. Microsoft does or did usually make a habit of not crediting or naming programmers so that competition wouldn't hire them off for a better salary.

>>5727936
>Microsoft does or did usually make a habit of not crediting or naming programmers so that competition wouldn't hire them off for a better salary.
The Japanese did the very same shit. This is like AVGN-tier trivia.

>>5727932
>Meanwhile, everywhere else, cash-starved devs would've been put on the path of disruption, or in other words: "how can I use fancy technology to trick rich boomer engineers and ignorant wall-street investors into giving my company of total amateurs a shit-load of money to make laserdisk games?". You'll note that few western retro game devs still exist despite western devs controlling most of the current marketshare (disruption eventually did pay off thanks to 3D graphics, boundless media storage capacity, and internet multiplayer).
Not really. Many of the big names in Japanese gaming from the 80s aren't around anymore or relevant in the business.

>Sega
Shitty software developer now.
>Konami
>Irem
Gave up on life and just make shitty pachinko machines now
>Data East
>Jaleco
>Sunsoft
No longer extant.

As for American devs, EA and Activision are the most notable ones from that time who are still around.

>>5727942
>Many of the big names in Japanese gaming from the 80s aren't around anymore or relevant in the business.
Nintendo
Arc System Works Co
Capcom
Bandai Namco
Game Freak

It seems like just about all the British software houses from that time are gone while the major French ones are still around.

>>5727952
The French are already dead gilets jaune failed.

>>5727948
See Blizzard
Rockstar Games
Visual Concepts
Tiburon

>>5726887
>Euros didn't have a console or arcade culture
Wanna know how I know you don't know what you're talking about and how I know you weren't alive in the 80's and highly like most of the 90's neither either

>>5727956
None of them date to the 80s.

>>5726752
>nips
Literally like 90% of what I'd consider good games are made by the nips.
there's plenty of shit they've made, but they're just damn good at game design
>burgers
Pre-crash US development was pretty good, lots of classic, tightly made games.
Doom's pretty good. Really, US FPS games weren't bad.
There's a couple Williams and Midway games I liked.
EA is and has always been a shitty company, but they weren't a bad developer for much of the /vr/ era.
still, as a whole, US development still isn't that great
>bongs, euros
Very nice graphics and sound.
Shame about their complete inability to fucking do game design. The controls were often were either really stiff or had crazy floaty movement, never really hitting a good middle ground.
really, even some good euro games like Wipeout are way too floaty for their own good

>>5727957
Exactly what consoles did Europe produce other than the dubious example of the CD32?

>>5727961
>Shame about their complete inability to fucking do game design
Their programmers weren't really professionals, they were bedroom coders/demosceners who would write stuff in their basement and submit it to a software house to be published. Software houses were also more interested in quick profit and releasing games as rapidly as possible than quality, well assembled product.

>>5727961
The interesting part of this post is that you don't name a definitive thing that Europe did.

No one mentioned Looking Glass Studios.

>>5727961
>EA is and has always been a shitty company, but they weren't a bad developer for much of the /vr/ era.
EA didn't begin developing in-house until the 90s, in the 80s they were just a publisher.

>>5727964
>you have to invent x to have x culture
America didn't invent apple pie but it's still part of American culture

>>5727960
I think the last two do.

>>5727981
America takes the best part of cultures around the world and refines them. Italian pizza is not the thing you think of when you hear the word 'pizza'.

I've always preferred JRPGs and never cared for WRPGs partially because in the retro era, they were (as others have noted) glorified Skinner boxes.

>>5727981
>America didn't invent apple pie
Europoors actually believe this.

>>5727991
I like to shitpost as much as you do, but it originated with the Dutch.

>>5727445
>Since this is just a thinly veiled country shitflinging thread anyway—...
...how is it even possible that you bought 1.5 million of these? Proof, if proof is needed, that Americans are the most retarded motherfuckers to ever walk the Earth.

>>5727993
That shit ain't apple pie. It's syrupy fucking mess.

>>5727996
Fuck do I know. You think I was alive in the 70s?

>>5727997
I agree, Americans did it better. But the Dutch invented it.

>>5727996
You're literally retarded if you think the average American bought a pet rock 30 years ago. Meanwhile, you stupid British faggots are still eating your standard breakfast that looks like my dog's vomit.

>>5728002
Maybe look at the recipes. They had all sorts of shit in them. Actual apple like as in 'Murican Apple Pie was first made in America.

>>5727990
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnhpgLyygaA

Just can't feel the idea of taking 30 minutes to finish one battle.

>>5728004
I'm on your side, dude. You're being rather heavy-handed.

>>5728009
Don't fuck with my pie.

Oiy m8, that James Pond and that Dizzy on the ol' Amiger, those were the real bloody deal. Those silly burgers and their Mario and Sonic Japcrap. They don't know what they missed.

>>5728013
Give me your recipe, homeboy.

>>5727996
Gag gifts are a big thing in the US. Stupid little knick knacks boomers give for Christmas and such because "lul, isn't it funny?"

>>5728015
I buy it from a local place in town. Have it with a scoop of ice cream or some cheddar.

>>5727987
Italian pizza is not the thing you think of when you hear the word 'pizza'.
Pretty sure if you asked an Italian to think of pizza they'd think of italian pizza

>>5728025
Thanks for saying exactly what my post said, my 70 IQ friend.

>>5728003
"Pet Rock is a collectible made in 1975 by advertising executive Gary Dahl. Pet Rocks are smooth stones from Mexico's Rosarito Beach.[1] They were marketed like live pets, in custom cardboard boxes,[1] complete with straw and breathing holes.[2] The fad lasted about six months, ending after a short increase in sales during the Christmas season of December 1975. Although by February 1976 they were discounted due to lower sales, Dahl sold 1.5 million Pet Rocks for $4 each.."

-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Rock

How d'ya like them apples? Hahaha, you fucking retards. A. Pet. ROCK.

It was like the 70s version of the Furby fad.

>>5727991
American apple pie is quite literally Dutch-Anglo
Going by printed recepie dates, the Bongs were making apple pies in the 1300's the dutch in the 1500's

"English apple pie recipes go back to the time of Chaucer. The 1381 recipe is the earliest known apple pie recipe in the world"
America didn't even have the apples to make them with until the Euros imported them

>>5728041
See the recipe here >>5728013
That's first Apple Pie you could call Traditional American Apple Pie recorded.

>>5728047
That's not a recipe, my 80 IQ friend, that is a cover to a cookbook.

>>5728027
>Thanks for saying exactly what my post said

That's not exactly what your post said though is it, otherwise my post would have been facsimile, you soporose moron.

>>5728052
If you ask anybody outside of Italy what pizza is, they think of American pizza. That's it. That's the fucking point. You can't deny this.

>>5728049
>That's not a recipe, my 80 IQ friend, that is a cover to a cookbook.
Too much fluoride. buddy.

>>5728060
You're too stupid to even exist.

>>5728047
>That's first Apple Pie you could call Traditional American Apple Pie recorded
Yes, pretty sure they were making that style 20years before that was printed, you know when America was still a colony

>>5728072
>all of America was a colony
Europoor education system.

>>5728054
>You can't deny this.
I can if I want, you're not my dad

>>5728080
Man that was abused sexually by his dad in his youth detected.

>>5727952
A lot of them got bought out by big American companies which hastily destroyed them.

>>5728075
Jokes on you, i'm American

>>5727137
Excuse me, I'm sure FF7 was the game that moved a million+ PS1s off the shelf.

>>5728083
Why are you mad that my dad though I was attractive enough in my youth to sexually abuse me

>imagine not being so ugly that even your own dad didn't want to touch you
I bet you still cry about it

>>5728107
Your brain is fucked beyond belief. If your handlers have any sense, they will never put you around children.

>>5727980
I think their Mega Drive titles were the first in-house ones.

>>5728041
>America didn't even have the apples to make them with until the Euros imported them
There's a number of apple (Malus) species native to North America but the cultivated apple comes from M. sylvestris, which originated in Central Asia.

>>5728104
He's right, Wipeout, Destruction Derby and Tomb Raider is what first shifted Playstations. The Saturn was dead by the time Final Fantasy 7 was released.

Also Rare's games are what shifted N64s. Can you imagine the N64 library without Rare? There would quite literally be 3 games on it.

>>5728119
>he's getting angry that his attempted insult didn't have the desired effect

>>5728130
Banjo Kazooie is a cult hit at best, and DKR kind of just exists. People bought N64s for Mario and Zelda, just like they buy any Nintendo system.

>>5726821
Stankonia

>>5728130
When you weed out the generic kiddy 3D platformers and laggy shooters all you have left is only like 2 or 3 actual good games by Rare for the N64.

>>5728234
Rarefags literally have nothing. DKC2 was probably the best platformer on the SNES, but they're too stupid to focus on that, and instead go for the normalfag choices in Banjo and muh shooters.

>>5727980
didn't actually know that, but honestly, I was mostly talking about their Genesis-era stuff anyway

>>5728245
EA has never been good.

They sure trolled Sega good. Some call it a victory for anti-DRM. Too bad EA would become all that and then some in time.

>>5728237
The best part of Rare formed a better studio
Free Radical!

>>5728214
>what is Goldeneye

>>5727862
These are some highly impressive copy/paste skills

>>5727996
dude people bought them as a joke... you brits really are all 100% autistic

>>5727981
Americans cultivated the apple to what we know today. While the fruit tastes better now, modern apple trees need a lot of tending to

For the 90's (thing's aren't the same any more):

Japan ++: Polished gameplay and presentation. Even the simplest concept is treated with care.
Japan --: Gameplay polish came at the cost of gameplay innovation. The entire decade was spent making iterative improvements on concepts from the 80's.

USA ++: The anti-Japan. Engine innovation everywhere.
USA --: Tech obsession lead to too many tech-demos posing as games.

Europe ++: Amazing coders. Amazing artists. Many of the best games from other regions poached talent from this pool.
Europe --: ...And thank god they did, because 90's Europe's competent game designers could be counted on one hand. Domestic markets full of cheap hardware also led to thousands talented souls wasting their efforts on garbage platforms.

>>5728054
I think of tuna pizza when I hear the word pizza (and tuna is a must on pizza) but I've never heard of Americans putting it on pizza

>>5726806
>What did they even make? Doom, Doom clone and Doom clone 2: Electric Boogaloo?

I want you to stop and take a moment to think about the fact that, in the context of retro gaming, you are mostly talking about iD, 3D Realms and Raven. You're boiling the whole US gaming industry down to literally 3 studios.

The first person shooter floodgates didn't open until the very end of the decade.

>>5726752
The GTA games are absolute classics
>and remember RESPECT is everything
I could walk to Rockstar North headquarters in about 30 minutes if i wanted to

>>5726915
Probably an Amigafag.

>>5727457
That's fucking BREAKFAST? if I try to eat more than a god damn toast i'll be fucking dying until late evening, what the shit, that has to be a lunch

As soon as the American companies bought the British developers then America started to get some good games.

Except now American publishers want more profit and insist less development is done.

America never had the "basement coder" scene so they never gained an imagination.

Japan and UK has oppressive governments in the 80s so people had to be creative.

>>5728446
A shittier Perfect Dark. Neither sold systems.

Kinda Weird to put Europe there. The century was more spent on getting their shit together again.
You had authoritarian regimes going up to the late 70s.
I think Europe will only start making a dent in a few years. Tons of talent there.


In many ways all these analysis are almost on a big cultural level, Japan like any Asian nation crystallizes and makes the same shit over and over until its perfect. America Innovates.

I see Eurojank transforming into something in between.

>>5728372
>Free Radical!
Yikes

ITT: amerimutt circlejerk and reduction of reality into convenient memes

>>5728706
>America never had the "basement coder" scene so they never gained an imagination.
This is your brain on reddit spacing.

>>5729178
I actually like that they still have this unreasonable blind exceptionalism.

>>5729179
you mean 4chan spacing, right?
it was commonplace here long before reddit was a part of the collective consciousness.

>>5729194
Except your image shows entire paragraphs, reasonably spaced. The post I quoted presses Enter twice after every sentence like a mouthbreathing nigger. I'll leave it to you to suss out the difference.

>>5729208
if I wrote the stuff in the pic, at least one anon will call it reddit spacing.
let's face it, pointing out "reddit spacing" is less about critisising the form and more about dismissing posts you disagree with without having to address the arguments.

>>5729220
>if I wrote the stuff in the pic
No you didn't, you larping 12 year old. Tick tock on the summer clock.

>>5729208
Why would you use the word "mouthbreathing" as an insult? No non-retarded person thinks there is anything strange or abnormal about mouthbreathing or uses that word as an insult.

>>5729227
>No non-retarded person thinks there is anything strange or abnormal about mouthbreathing

>>5729194
>>5729208
>>5729220
It's from bbs forums and there it made sense. Makes sense for the first few years of 4chan too since that's were most came from. Doing it today is a reddit spacing technique. I know I'm dealing with dumb kids and literal newfags so. Basically it comes down to are you spacing because of how the forum is set up (BBS forums) or for structure of the post (reddit spacing).

>>5729232
>Basically it comes down to are you spacing because of how the forum is set up (BBS forums) or for structure of the post (reddit spacing).
Except it's the complete opposite, you actual fucking retard.

>>5729235
You never used a BBS forum or know what it is. It's ok.

>>5729237
You're not even responding to my argument, you dipshit.

>>5729243
I'm not because you're displaying complete ignorance of how BBS forum posts works and think any form of spacing is reddit spacing which is factual wrong. Display some competence if you want an argument.

>>5729250
Nigger, you specifically said that reddit spacing is NOT because of how their site's coding works. I posted an image that proves that wrong, and you still haven't responded to that.

>>5729231
Yes. I'd wager the only correlation between intelligence and mouth breathing is mouth breathers are more intelligent, because they're slightly more likely to be non-athletic, asthmatic types so would read more when they were developing.

>>5729251
>NOT because of how their site's coding works. I posted an image that proves that wrong, and you still haven't responded to that.
Your image specifically confirms what I said dipshit. Read the bottom text of your pic you zoomer.

>>5729252
t. actual retard whose mommy told him his mouthbreathing makes him special

>>5726826
Jesus Christ, that posture

>>5729254
To add becouse you're a zoomer. You can make a post with no spaced lines on reddit. As your pic says to add the extra space YOU have to do it. As I said before you're adding spacing to structure your post not because that's how the forum works.

Go to newgrounds or something if you want to see the remnants of a BBS forum.

>>5729268
Then we were talking past each other. It happens.

Note that I have your posts automatically blocked because anybody who says '-oomer' is a fucking retard. Keep that in mind in the future, because I'm not the only person who does this.

>>5729274
I hate the word too but the problem becomes so huge that the generalization of just saying -oomer is far easier. Virtually no one is left here from the old internet.

>>5729256
jfc... when you put "t." in front of what you're saying without greentexting it means it's YOU you're talking about you fucking idiot. Yes other people make the same mistake because they're shitheads like yourself.

"Mouthbreathing" as an insult is what happens when 4chan fuckwits try to do science.

>>5729278
I mean, I wasn't on fucking BBSs, but I do remember AOL discs. Not everyone younger than you is generation Z, old man.

>>5726752
>50hz washed out colors
>even being considered

>>5729283
No they're not, they're just words. Whether you like a term or not when it reaches critical mass you have no choice but to accept people using it according to their meaning. I have always hated the term "sjw" but now I use it myself because the meaning it conveys is just what I need to use. In general talking about how you're ignoring people or filtering posts with words is pretty retarded itself, nobody gives a shit about what you ignore.

>>5729339
>No they're not
This isn't even referring to anything in my post. Are you okay?

>stop double-spacing because reddit does it

>>5729352
>muh wojak
>that shill catalog filename
>thinking the name of the phenomenon has anything to do with how it makes you look stupid
Please leave.

>>5726765
As if Europe was just one unified block. That Yurop gaming meme only holds true for a very small fraction of games/genres of just one isolated market (the british one).

What about Germany (Blue Byte - "Settlers", Factor 5, Kaiko), France (Lorigiel, Silmarils, Delphine, Microïds, Coktel Vision (Gobliiins was an awesome game series), Ubisoft or the dev wizards of Velez & Dubail) heck "Little Big Adventure" was also a French game, Spain (Dinamic Software) or Scandinavian devs (like Digital Illusions CE (or DICE who have now fallen from grace with there current shitty games)) or even Hungary (Andromeda Software, Novotrade, ASK Homework) and so on and so on.

There were so much more games than a couple of british Jump'n'runs/Platformers. Just take the Sim or Business sim genre (which I never was very fond of) which flooded the german market in the 80s and 90s or the many french adventure games (again Delphine was great with these).

>>5729285
>>50hz washed out colors
But NTSC ran at 60hz?

>>5727148
>Euros were good programmers, not good game designers.
Sensible Soccer
UFO:EU
Can't think of anything else.

>>5729470
>Novotrade
We didn't forget that Amiga Castlevania.

>>5729185
>>5729178
Please take this to /int/ so we can actually see where you hail from. Hiding behind anonymity is cowardly.

Boards with flags are cancer anyway.

>post thread
>hey guys, do you think that...
>anons attack your flag rather than your argument

>>5729545
And the two awful PSX Contra games.

Europe is a big place with a lot of countries that were much more willing to tolerate computers with rubber keyboards and cassette storage than Americans were. The US computer market has always been a premium one.

>>5727924
>pretentious arthouse shit

>>5729470
Trust me the Spanish stuff was not an improvement on the Zniggy British kind of games and often even worse.

>>5729151

>>5729151
>>5728706

>>5727445
You clearly have never eaten a full English to be saying such things. God's own breakfast.

>>5729629
My country has better ones.

>>5729640
Yes but you still live in Brazil.

>>5729470
I watched this at double speed and it was still painfully slow.

>>5727838
>France made pretentious arthouse garbage with terrible gameplay.

They still do, see Quantic Dream.

>>5729594
I mean isn't it really?
The wall came down not that long ago in Germany. Croats were dodging bullets in the 90s.

Europe will only start making shit now. In fact there is a sizeable amount of devs drained out of europe. And something like Larian appearing is cute.

>>5729716
If its something like Dark Earth or gothic I want to play eurojank forever.
I really love their stuff.

>>5729285
>washed out colors

Are you talking about NTSC?

It's funny. Outside the world of videogames, NTSC is flat out inferior in every way.

>>5729731
You do realize it predates PAL as a standard by almost a decade, right?

Most of the big names in British gaming in the 80s disappeared as the industry consolidated in the 90s. They became irrelevant or ended up as anonymous work slaves at one of the big studios.

>le innovation
You see tons of weird and out there shit from Japan if you bother looking outside their big studios. (and even those do innovation when it comes to generation shifts like the move to 3D)
Look through some 80s to 2000s semi-professional stuff sometime, mountain climber simulations, high budget fishing sims with cameos from fishing celebs, daughter raising sims, detective murder mysteries (albeit Sierra had a different take on them) and tons of other offbeat stuff.
And yes they had weirdos who just wanted to do CRPGs on a computer too, some doujin stuff are just old men implementing ship warfare with 1-2 wireframe pictures and tons of text.

>>5729770
>le

>>5729578
Spaniard here, can confirm.

>>5730917
>>5729578
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqe6AvZQ0G8

>>5730936
Well obviously there's gonna be one or two competent ones, Abadía del Crimen stands out in that list, though. Stuff like Dinamic's output was pretty terrible...in the sense of being really bland, derivative, even back in the day.

Spain was the next biggest ZX Spectrum market after the UK (unless you count Eastern European commie Spectrum clones) but Commodore was nearly nonexistent there.

>>5730947
Yeah, the C64 was really not a thing. We just had Spectrum. I learned to code in one, fortunately a model with a fucking real keyboard. Although I always hated the games on that thing. For me it was truly just a learning machine...funny, because that was the original intent behind it.
Once I had access to a DOS PC I never looked back though, although I kinda wish I had a C64 instead, it seemed a lot more...solid, dunno, as far as making games went.

>>5730962
I remember C64 being pretty popular here in the UK 2bh, popular enough that many newsagents would carry games for them

>>5731002
Oh, I meant Spain there. There was also a bit of Amstrad stuff but I only recall knowing one kid with that. Less presence in shops as well, so I assume it wasn't huge.

Can we all just agree that British games had THE BEST level design? I mean look at this typical Amiga-style level. Nintendo eat your heart out. There's at least 10x the platforming action in a level like this.

>>5731008
But isn't Flashback a French game?

>>5731023
Even if so then they clearly suckled at the teat of british level design philosophy: fit your dense level with as much shit as possible

>>5731007
>Oh, I meant Spain there.
Ah right, fair enough m8, I should have read the previous comment more carefully 2bh.

Seems weird that newsagents carried and sold games back then in the UK, they usually had about 20 or so in the window for each system, Speccy, Commodore, and Amstrad, youd spend 30 mins looking at the boxart and then buying one purely on which game had the best picture on the front lol, you'd get it home, spend 10 mins loading it up to find they were mostly shit, there were a few gems out there though but it mostly felt like you were playing roulette with your weekly pocketmoney

They ranged from £4 for budget titles to £14 on average. Original games could be interesting, licenced and arcade ports were asking for trouble.

>>5731036
From interviews with programmers, nobody liked doing those. They were put out to huge time pressure, licenced games were subjected to the licence owner's content restrictions, and arcade ports...those have already been discussed on here.

>>5731008
>Flashback, released as Flashback: The Quest for Identity in the US, is a cinematic platformer developed by Delphine Software of France.

fucking moron

>>5729640
I literally can't identify anything in this picture except the olives(?). Why do you eat a bowl of olives with breakfast?

>>5727043
>But not before Americans invented the things

HAHAHA Jesus fucking Christ. Are Americans really that fucking stupid? I mean why am I even asking, we all know you guys are.

Who is Konrad Zuse?

Also:
>>5727038
>You tell us, bong.

Every time I have to talk to Mericans here I am wondering if this is a competition: Who is the biggest idiot. Every American is trying to compete and I have to admit it's really hard to tell who the winner is.
So just because Americans don't know ANY foreign language they all assume
>I'm not talking to a fellow Burger, so he must be BRITISH so I better call him Bong

Yeh I have some bad news for you.
Also just look up stuff yourself. If you don't even fucking know who infogrames are and what games they did you are an underage faggot who doesn't even know ANYTHING about Retro games. Since I already know how those board rolls I know everyone will cry me a river because I said faggot and won't even comment on anything else. Seriously how can you not know infogrames .

>>5727040
While I am on your side I have to say the other companies aren't British either expect for Adventure Soft of course.


This thread is just really really embarrassing to watch. Seems like part of being American is being part of a big ass circle jerk. Every country created a bunch of shitty games and thanks to the USA there was the big video game crash nobody on this planet cared about but the USA. You guys will do it again with Streaming like Netflix because you won't learn from your mistakes.

Countries having unified design philosophies is a myth, usually used to shit on a game or to make a game look good.

>>5726780

It's all unplayable eurojank shit anyways

>>5732536
Countries in general have unified design philosophies in everything, you dipshit. Just look at architecture.

>>5732538
>jank

Europoors eternally seething.

>>5726752
Japan was obviously the best but I will say they piggybacked hard on American and Euro designed tech advancements (3D rendering mostly) to get things done. I'd rather play a game programmed by Americans and Designed by the japanese than the other way around.

>>5734574
Thanks for inadvertently admitting that Europe effectively did nothing for gaming.

Europe has no coherent gaming culture because it’s a series of countries with minimal commonalities aside from being physically next to each other. I imagine OP knew this.
I would posit one clear strand of British gaming is a preference for essentially open world games with an emphasis on emergent gameplay and discovery. These are typically complex games using techniques such as procedural rendering to squeeze as much as possible out of the weak home computer hardware they ran on. Consider the following:
Elite (also of course, the foundation of the space trading genre that originated in Britain)
Tau Ceti
Mercenary
Lords of Midnight
Turbo Esprit
Exile
Starglider 2
Damocles
Midwinter/2
Hunter
Grand Theft Auto/3, etc
I would argue other countries were not making games like these until at least the ‘90s with elements of the design of these games becoming more popular and widespread in the 2000s (e.g. Half Life 2 and its physics engine/puzzles, Just Cause, etc).

>>5729132
Lmao what a retard. The game sold 8 million copies. That's more than Zelda. It's no mystery what caused the N64's sales to double in 1997.

>>5732580
Too bad that this doesn't apply to games, since besides the usual types of games that are popular everywhere (usual more action oriented ones), there where and are niche games which can differ greatly from one country to another.

>>5726752
I wouldn't argue it as such.
I'd argue that Japan had the best game design philosophy during the late 80s and early 90s (Mario, Zelda, early FF and pretty much the entire NES-SNES library). US had the best game design philosophy in the late 90s and early 2000s (Elder Scrolls, Dune, Command and Conquer, Darklands, X-Com, Deus Ex etc). Europe had the best game design philosophy in the mid and late 2000s (STALKER, ARMA/Operation Flashpoint, Mafia, Silent Storm, Mount and Blade, KCD, etc)

>>5726752
Japan games were usually more detailed and refined. That's why I prefer them (super metroid, symphony of the night, mgs, sonic 2, super mario 3, ocarina of time, chrono trigger are just a few of my favourites, and they're all japanese gamed)
I felt that American games were more irreverent but I prefer modern games when I think in USA. Anyway I love Doom, half life, and retro rts games

>>5738879
>(STALKER, ARMA/Operation Flashpoint, Mafia, Silent Storm, Mount and Blade, KCD, etc)
Most of these games are from Eastern Europe, that is it's own area. There's a divide between Western and Eastern European game design. The former tend to be extremely refined, with beautiful graphics, OST, are often very experimental in design, and are solid stable, but are flawed on the most important thing, the GAMEPLAY, which often feels "off" and "meh". The latter are made on a much tighter budget, and it shows, they're nowhere near as good looking or stable as Western games, but the devs compensate ensuring that at least the gameplay is good, which is all that matters. They also often display a downright autistic concern for "realism".

It's kinda weird seeing that euro meme as if every european game of the 80's and 90's was some kind of brit platformer/j'n'r/mascot j'n'r, while almost every european country beside that typical genres had some other kind of niche or speciality. And I'm thinking about all those french adventure games like Cruise for a corpse etc., some british proto "walking simulators" like Deus ex Machina or other avant-garde/arthouse games like that (and it also looks like every single british TV show had some games made for it)

Then of course there's the market I know the most - the german one. With all those sim/business/manager games of varying quality with early games like "Kaiser", games like "Black Gold" (from Factor 5 and Star Byte), "Winzer" (vintner), I also remember some crappy Hotel manager ("Steigenberger Hotelmanager" ?), "Boom East", "Inve$t" (again from Star Byte), "Oil Imperium", "Patrician" (from Ascon who also did those boring Soccer manager games "Anstoss"/"On the Ball"), some less dry 'spread sheet games' and more fun games like "Mad TV" (from Rainbow Arts who later developed "Rendering Ranger"), "Mad News" (from Ikarion who also made some boring Soccer manager games "Hattrick!") or even very lewd sims like "Biing!: Sex, Intrigue and Scalpels". Heck, there's a german sim/management game for almost any possible and also unlikely profession (yes, there was even a non commercial "concentration camp manager" if anyone asks)

From the above mentioned devs especially Rainbow Arts covered a lot of genres from the typical shoot'em ups to stuff like Turrican 2 but also Puzzle games and of course management games. And what Velez & Dubail was for france for germany was Factor 5, Manfred Trenz etc. so devs that were pushing the limits of the machines they were working with

Too bad that most of the former great european devs have gone to shit now. DICE is chained to EA and forced to make crap military and star wars games, UbiSoft is now as cancerous as EA and Activision

>>5739518
>It's kinda weird seeing that euro meme as if every european game of the 80's and 90's was some kind of brit platformer/j'n'r/mascot j'n'r,
The whole point is to force this meme to stop discussion.