/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5712397
Ewww if you like them rock on. There's nothing I hate more.

Scanline filters are awful, because they darken the image.

The aren't really that noticeable on a real TV.

If you're talking about real scanlines I agree with you. If you're talking about using scanline filters on a modern display absolutely not.

>>5712410
True, true. I made a filter for MAMEUI. The grey lines were almost white, but it was STILL too dark.

>>5712401
Imagine being this pleb

scanlines are like pubic hair for your video games

>>5712397
scanlines are trash

>>5712696

>>5712397
Lol the autism on this board is astonishing sometimes. Scanlines are a direct result of primitive technology and add nothing of value to anything. The only thing more autistic than enjoying legitimate scanlines is emulating scanlines.

>>5712720
>Scanlines are a direct result of primitive technology and add nothing of value to anything.

This is /vr/. Did you mean to go to /v/?

>>5712696
You mean like a sign of maturity, completeness? I agree. Games aren't quite fully-baked without them

>>5712424
CRTs look much better, but using a good scanline filter, properly aligned, on a digital display is at least better than raw dog.

>>5712698
Zoom-a-zoom-zoom.

>>5712720
>Scanlines are a direct result of primitive technology and add nothing of value to anything. The only thing more autistic than enjoying legitimate scanlines is emulating scanlines.

I can tell that your logical nerd brain meshes well with art and aesthetics.

>>5712732
No not at all. I love retro games, but retarded shit like emulating scanlines is just next level autistic.

>>5712756
>I can tell that your logical nerd brain meshes well with art and aesthetics.
>art
>scanlines
Pick one.

>>5712774
>No not at all. I love retro games, but retarded shit like emulating scanlines is just next level autistic.
It's the only possible way to see art in the way the artists intended.

>>5712756
>Zoom-a-zoom-zoom

I zoomed in and they still look like trash

>>5712720
what's more autistic is emulating the shit geometry of a crt.

Scanlines only exist because they're the only way to get progressive scan from an interlaced CRT. The artist's intention, as shown in numerous examples of official artwork, was always the aesthetically superior sharp pixels.

>>5712790
the artist intended for you to use a screen door filter in your emulator? very interesting

>>5712732
No he's just telling you deranged manchildren the truth you don't want to hear.

>>5712776
Don't you have some D&D campaign to run?

>>5712796
No, no. Like this: "Enhance".

>>5712843
no. scan lines were used as a alternative to bilinear filtering which had a patent. some companies wouldnt pay the patent fee. SNK would not. SNK arcade games for sure didnt for the longest time and i believe neo geo games did not have bilinear filtering

there was a stand off between the companies that wouldnt use it and every one else. eventually the fee went down and it was adopted by all but many foreign companies wouldnt pay the fee. some european ones wouldnt some japanese ones wouldnt

the effect is based on how the brain sees the pixels. the dark lines make the brain fill in the gaps and everything seems smother than it is

>>5713052
This is either some hyper-advanced trolling or you might be the dumbest motherfucker alive

>>5713052
Scan lines are literally caused by ignoring field polarity on an interlaced CRT. It's got nothing to do with any kind of filtering.

>>5713052
Scan lines are literally caused by ignoring field parity on an interlaced CRT. It's got nothing to do with any kind of filtering.

>>5713064
Scan lines are caused because the electron beam SCANS across the screen. In LINES.

>>5712397
Scanlines are a meme and you fell for it.

There. NOW it's art

>>5713071
They're not easily noticeable if the interlaced CRT is used as intended because the even fields sit in the gaps left by the odd fields (and vice versa).

>>5713103
>intended

That's like saying jpg is the intended format for digital pictures. There are no NTSC police going around forcing you to comply with their standards.

>>5713108
It's saying that NTSC televisions are designed to show NTSC signals, which they are. 240p is not standard NTSC.

>>5713118
They're not NTSC televisions. They're televisions which happen to support NTSC.

>>5713121
They're designed specifically for NTSC, so they are NTSC televisions. 240p is a hack invented without the approval of the television manufacturers. If it was intended by them then they'd have fixed the scanlines.

>>5713125
No, they simply support NTSC. Clearly they support other signal formats as well. And you're not making any kind of point, scan lines are a result of how the technology functions. In that it scans an electron beam across the screen. In lines.

>>5713131
"Support" is an active decision. They are merely capable of displaying some non-standard signals. When the intended NTSC standard interlaced lines are shown you don't see big ugly gaps between the lines.

>>5712410
how do you make this shit brighter?

>>5713295
turn the brightness up I guess?

>>5713141
Are you implying that 480i looks better than 240p? Sick in the head.

>>5713331
Are you implying it doesn’t? Venetian blind fetishists, I swear.

>>5713331
No. Interlacing artifacts are even more disgusting than scanlines. I'm just saying that prominent scanlines are an artifact of the hack used to get 240p from a 480i CRT. The fact that it's better than the alternative doesn't mean it's good or that it's intended.

>>5712410
>>5713295
Increase the gamma

>>5712720
Fuck off Red

>>5713295
>>5712612
>>5712397
most emus have brighter options and they looked fine. unless you really hate scanlines anyhow.

>>5712410
>Scanline filters are awful, because they darken the image.
I have a 1000 nits brightness monitor to compensate for this and it looks great.

>>5713539
I am a scanlinefag but damn both of your pictures look like garbage

>>5712856
See pic in
>>5712732

Emulating scanlines is pathetic
but preferring scanlines on a REAL crt is absolutely acceptable, games were designed with this in mind but the biggest reason is that it's what your nostalgia craves

>>5713656
> Emulating games is pathetic
but preferring games on a REAL cart is absolutely acceptable, games were designed with this in mind but the biggest reason is that it's what your nostalgia craves

This is how you sound

I find they work well for upscaled 2D sprites/HUD since I don't like bilinear and nearest neighbor looks too jaggy, and most of the special filters don't look good past maybe 2x. So scanlines cover it up nicely.

>>5712397

I agree with you. Scanlines on a real crt make everything look better. Thenagain real CRT make everything look better. LCD's such for vidya games. I think the biggest bummer is all those indie pixel art games. They are hideous. Games never looked like that back in the day.
Whatever these indie fucks do, they dearly need to come up with a way to make their games look more attractive. And a lame scanline overlay isnt gonna cut it.

>>5712397 (OP)

I agree with you. Scanlines on a real crt make everything look better. Thenagain real CRT's make everything look better. LCD's suck for vidya games. Lack of depth. Lack of real luminosity. I think the biggest bummer is all those indie pixel art games. They are hideous. Games never looked like that. Whatever these indie fucks do, they dearly need to come up with a way to make their low res games look more attractive. And a lame scanline overlay isnt gonna cut it.

>>5713823
>I think the biggest bummer is all those indie pixel art games. They are hideous.
That's because they're drawn by bad artists, and they mix old and modern techniques with no regard for how out of place they look together.

>>5713539
That looks fucking horrible. I have a CRT and it looks nothing like that

>>5713845
>drawn by bad artists, and they mix old and modern techniques with no regard for how out of place they look together.

Thats definitely part of it.

>>5712410
>The aren't really that noticeable on a real TV.

This. It's like tweens are trying to awkwardly LARP what they imagine playing video games was like in the before-times, based on nothing but garbled incomplete secondhand accounts.

>>5712752
its really not because the way the light is emitted from the monitor gains no advantage from semi transparent black bars laying on top of the image. It literally only makes it darker and serves no purpose. Raw dog is definitely better.

>>5713652
The problem is that just putting a scanline filter on emulated games does not reproduce that effect. It just makes the game fucking darker you retard. Show me a screenshot of that game being emulated with a scanline filter compared to the original picture and I will shut up.

This is a reminder of what scanlines on a consumer CRT look like. Maybe if you don't like it you have nothing to do on /vr ?

>>5713949
different anon, but here's another good example of what /vr/ games should look like on a proper crt. and this is rgb too.

god i love scanlines, they make the game look proper.

>>5713924
>The problem is that just putting a scanline filter on emulated games does not reproduce that effect. It just makes the game fucking darker you retard.
This isn't 2005 you dumbshit. Scanline filters on non-potatoes are capable of looking indistinguishable from real CRTs if on a 4K monitor/TV.

>Show me a screenshot of that game being emulated with a scanline filter compared to the original picture and I will shut up.
No you won't, but I'll post one anyway. If you actually care, look up CRT-Royale. Full image is here: http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/images/a/aa/Retroarch-1102-0058354ertd.png

>>5713924
>The problem is that just putting a scanline filter on emulated games does not reproduce that effect. It just makes the game fucking darker you retard.
This isn't 2005 you dumbshit. Scanline filters on non-potatoes are capable of looking indistinguishable from real CRTs if on a 4K monitor/TV.

>Show me a screenshot of that game being emulated with a scanline filter compared to the original picture and I will shut up.
No you won't, but I'll post one anyway. If you actually care, look up CRT-Royale. Full image is here: http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/images/a/aa/Retroarch-1102-0058354ertd.png

>>5714124
RGB on a consumer CRT is truly the patrician's choice.

Explain this anti-scanline RBG only shitters

>>5714184
easy, sega is shit

>>5714176
>capable of looking indistinguishable from real CRTs if on a 4K monitor/TV
Only for still images. Real CRTs strobe each line individually, which is necessary for best motion quality.

>>5714184
>he's too stupid to interpret dithering
Blur is for literal retards.

>>5714314
> Only for still images. Real CRTs strobe each line individually, which is necessary for best motion quality.
That's true, and a good point. The TVs in the last 5-ish years have a solution that mostly closes the gap (which you can also emulate with a PC and a variable refresh rate monitor). It goes by many names, but it's generally called black frame insertion. I have both CRTs and Flatscreens, and I now almost only use my newer flatscreen.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/image-flicker

>>5714176
>Scanline filters on non-potatoes are capable of looking indistinguishable from real CRTs if on a 4K monitor/TV.
Not in motion.

>>5713539
>>5713557
Composite filter with KEGA Fusion just werkz, anon. Don't be a hater, you consolefag metaljesus ebay prices shill!

>>5713904
He's right though. I'm older than all of you. Most CRT of the 80s and 90s were low quality noisy composite /RF video inputs. Their scanlines or grill-lines were never clear cut. Only those expensive PVMs used by TV studios had real obvious black bar scanlines.

I never got to see those obvious scanlines as a kid.

>>5715670
I've had a cheapo "Rubin" and "Zenith" TVs and they didn't have any noticable scanlines

>>5714176
>Scanline filters on non-potatoes are capable of looking indistinguishable from real CRTs if on a 4K monitor/TV.
There is always more to the story than the appearance. How does this filter emulate the fast response time and refresh rate of CRTs?

>>5713949
>>5714124
>>5714179
These look... gross. Like they have a very rough texture that’s just unpleasant to look at.

>>5712732
>Less than 5% of the developers used that technique

>>5715824
compared to pic related it looks way better. besides you wouldn't see that texture up close.

>CRT monitors have no lag!
>Response time faser than ray moves across the tube!
>even if it countradicts actual physics of the process!

>>5712397
Go dilate

>>5712397
>>5713089
>>5714124
>>5714132
>>5715831

>>5714179
no? that looks like complete shit. theres red green and blue vertical color banding all across your fucking screen. buy a pvm you dumbass or use s-video. your image is awful.

>>5714176
this looks like shit

>>5715856
Is that some sort of new weeb insult im not aware of?

>>5715821
> There is always more to the story than the appearance. How does this filter emulate the fast response time and refresh rate of CRTs?
That's not something a filter needs to consider at all-- might as well ask how well the filter makes toast. Most gaming monitors and high end TVs have near-pr-better lag vs CRT and have for years. And most graphics cards have variable refresh rate functionality which also offers black frame insertion in order to eliminate the blur and simulate the flicker. Get with the times.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/crts-have-8-3ms-of-input-lag-addressing-a-common-misconception-about-display-latency.40628/

>>5715953
It looks exactly like an aperture grill. The filter can also emulate a shadow mask. And yes, it would "look like shit" to people who's first console was a Wii on a HDTV.

>>5716336
>https://www.resetera.co/SJW/BeMuhShield

Not your shield. >>>/pol/

>>5715856
>>5716879
Can anyone explain what the heck this is? Are these Fortnite memes?

>>5712397
Most of them suck, but if you make your own mame overlay they can look alright

>>5717446

>>5717448

>>5717450
Here's the overlay, It looks decently like a crt, just overly sharp with the bilinear filter off, but at least its not all blurry. I have a nice crt emu setup, but all the autism about filters is what drove me to make it, this overlay is made for a 3840x2160 resolution in mame btw

>>5717464
also if you really want your autism to run wild you can use paint to create all kinds of rgb patterns with very lightened colors, like the light part of my one above. You can do it at a large resolution, then use paint's stretched to bring it down to the exact amount of pixels you want. Then just save and have a game ready to open to check it out. Its a fun time waster. You might have to adjust the resolution from 10 to 5 pixels or whatever, just do all the math and it should line up somewhat correctly.

>>5717494
Oh, and you will need to adjust the sliders in the tab menu to compensate for the loss of brightness.

>>5713089
Fuck that, my vision snow makes it look like there's animated film grain going on with the image.

>>5714132
Scanlines are supposed to be inbetween actual pixels, not drawn over them you dumbass

>>5715827
> citation needed
If you're going to make an extraordinary claim, you need extraordinary evidence. Claiming that professional artists didn't factor the display medium in their art is an extraordinary claim.

The industry wasn't fully of indie garbage back then.

>>5713539
>emulating a Game Gear game
>scanlines
LCDs don't have scanlines numb nut

1 scanline is good enough

This is what a real CRT looks like, there are no "scanlines"

>>5719362
This unironically improves the game by 1/4.

>>5713052
>the effect is based on how the brain sees the pixels. the dark lines make the brain fill in the gaps and everything seems smother than it is

You're 100% correct but I also want to add, another benefit of this was the game companies only had to pay artists half of the normal going rate as they only had to render 50% of the total picture. Pretty sneaky but if your brain can fill in 50% of the picture, there is no use paying artist twice as much to render the whole picture. I guess it's good economics if you think about it.

>>5718536
Real question, how much psychedelics have you used in the past? I had visual snow for like 5 years after experimenting with salvia for a few years. I don't have visual snow anymore, but that shit was annoying, especially in low light environments.

The way it was meant to be played

>>5718612
maybe you're the dumbass, dumbass.

>>5717446
same anon, this is a pic from one of my actual crts

>>5719636

>>5712796
Those are not scan lines you retard. The actual scanlines in that pic are the evenly spaced dimming columns in between the mask.

>>5719390
There quite obviously are though. You just don't know what to look for because you've been made to think scan lines are huge black voids inbetween pixel rows.

My shitty TV just blew up, I guess it was a capacitor or something

>>5719467
this is the chaos vote

i don't dislike playing on emulators but 100% perfect sharpness in old games looks weird af and makes the games look stark and gaudy.

>>5719754
With most its a toss up between bilinear filtering which makes it way too blurry and washes out the color, or it being way sharp with upscaling. I prefer the latter, but its much better to just get a crt connected to windows. It isn't that hard with groovymame/crtemudriver.

>>5716336
You're trying way too hard with your trolling/bait, you have to be more subtle. Try again next time, yeah? It looks like complete shit.

>>5719362
based

>>5718612
Its not like the artist drew the pixels every other line. They just look like that on a crt because no interlace. It literally cuts every pixel in half, its just you only see it on stuff like a bvm because consumer sets blur everything back together. On a bvm it looks no different than the same image x2 on a pc crt with half the lines removed. For the most part anyway.

>>5715950
>s-video
Just chiming in to say I love s-video. I have an s-video switcher hooked up to my flat CRT with an NES, Genesis, PS1 and PS2 hooked up to it. The Genesis is s-video modded and I got an NESRGB just to output s-video.

>>5712397
I like scanlines in emulators. Not enough to argue about it though.

>>5712397
>Pixelshit
Nobody who wasn't just a tourist from /v/ would use this term. You're not even using it correctly anyway. It's meant to describe modern indie crap. You're probably that same retard who keeps trying to make "jarpig" a thing here.

>>5719435
None, I've had it my whole life.

>>5712720
its clarence bodiker from robocop

>>5713656
so.. scanlines have electrolytes?

>>5720349
Bitches out.

>>5719362
fuck yeah

>>5720381
no. no. "bitches leave"