/vr/ - Retro Games

JRPGs, as a genre, are basically VNs with extra steps. The oldest ones are fine as they're basically just dungeon crawlers, but as soon as the story became their selling point then the battles became a slog. Chrono Trigger is pretty much the only JRPG where this isn't the case and it has far fewer battles than other JRPGs of the time, and even afterwards (or it feels that way at least).

>>5713956
Mostly this. I'd put Vallyrie Profile in this category as well.

jrpgs = cringe story, somewhat acceptable gameplay
crpgs = decent to good and/or mature story, mediocre to completely unbalanced gameplay.

debate me

>>5713926
>and the embodiment of time wasters.
... which is THE purpose of a video game

>>5713926
>all videogames aren't timewasters

What even is Wonder Boy? I tried this yesterday and it was so incredibly boring that I quit while trying to figure out how to make the fairy open that stupid note door at the first cave. This is one of the highest rated games on the genesis too. Just yikes.

>>5713961
As I've gotten older I've come to appreciate tactical RPGs which at least have set-piece fights so what you're doing has some relevance (in good games) to the story. Of course, this only matters in such story-driven games.

>>5713926
>90% of retro JRPGs and even Action games with RPG elements are boring as fuck
90% of everything is shit. 90% of shmups are shit. 90% of video games are shit. 90% of "gamers" are shit

>the embodiment of time wasters.
That's all vidya, bruh. You think your life has meaning because you saw the end credits for a shmup?

>>5714030
I can play the shittiest of straight action games and have fun. I can play bad SMB3 hacks and have fun. Generic Jarpig games are fucking boring.

>>5713926
Close, but it's more like 100% of jarpigs are boring as fuck. Progression systems are like cheat codes for plebs that don't wanna git gud, if they come to a hard part in a jarpig they can just go mindlessly grind some easy zakos until their levels are good enough to continue the game. And no, don't give me that excuse that "devs didn't intend you to grind", that's a crock of shit. Especially for older games that used grinding to pad the game and make you feel like you're getting more out of it. It's poorly balanced game design. You could have spent that time gitting gud at games that have no progression systems and only rely on the player's skill, not on how good you make your in-game avatar. I realize not everyone can be good at games though so they fall back on games with progression systems, but you don't have to get so salty at those who aren't trash and can enjoy real games, not role-playing faggotry.

>>5714057
cool blogpost, bro. Thanks for sharing your NPC tastes

Shmups are fucking garbage. Glad the shmup general is dead.

>>5714073
>muh NPC
how to spot the retard

>>5714076
/shmupg/ is on 8ch@n's /v/ instead now.

https://8ch
.net/v/res/16638514.html

>>5713926
here's my unpopular opinion: 90% of retards who try to shit on jrpgs are clueless and unironically play them incorrectly due to their preconceived biases of how the genre is supposed to work.
for a solid example, i'll cite "every retard who has ever spent 5 hours having their characters in ff2 hit themselves to grind hp and then go on to say the game is shit."

XP/Progression systems are the Marxism of videogames.

>your videogame skills are shit? don't wanna get better? that's ok sweetie, just go level up your character instead and you'll be just as good as anyone else playing the game :)

>>5714061
every jrpg in existence has playthroughs that were completed with extremely low-level parties, your argument isn't valid.

>>5714061
Agreed.
Are there any JRPGs that don't have a leveling system at all?
I played this and it actually made baby-mode chrono trigger fun.

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/111/

>>5714104
Even if that were true, gameplay in jarpigs just boils down to luck and dicerolls rather than skill and actual strategies.

Lmao all these buttblasted shmupniggers.

>>5713926
>90% of all games, books, films and other works of art in general are boring as fuck and the embodiment of time wasters.
Fixed.

Used to be a popular opinion among people who weren't jrpg shitters desu no clue what changed

I'm laughing at the retards who think the quality of a video game is 100% determined solely by its mechanics. I guess you think the quality of film is solely determined by its screenplay. If you can't into aesthetics or new media narratives, go back to Pong.

>>5714182
Got that opinion on kotaku?

>>5714182
Just like everything is secondary to cinematography in cinema (rather than the screenplay, you ignorant fucking dipshit), everything is secondary to gameplay in games.

>>5714182
And here comes the "games are art" pseud.

>>5714092
8ch is full of nazis, fuck that

>>5714204

why do you get so triggered when someone discusses video games in the mildest of academic terms? are you scared of being exposed as an uncultured autist?

>>5714213
What's wrong with nazis? You're not a commie/liberal/jew, are you?

>>5714229
Other than starting the most appalling war of all time in which millions of white europeans died?

>>5713970
The only JRPGs with any real gameplay at all are SRPGs and dungeon crawlers.

>>5714030
>You think your life has meaning because you saw the end credits for a shmup?
Yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn7kHlFmJ1o

>>5713970
crpgs are absolute garbage and cringe on every level and have been a dead genre for years. The remnants reduced to begging on kickstarter for the bucks of a few autistic holdouts' lunch money.
>crps
>decent to good and/or mature story
Ayyylmao Purple Prose makes nothing good. The best writing in a game is from Lost Odyssey's "1000 years of Dreams" segments, a JRPG no less.

>>5714569
And Koei's stuff like Inindo, Uncharted Waters, RotTK9.
And Romancing Saga, Metal Max, Vagrant Story, SD3, Crystalis.

>>5714125
Source?

>>5714095
/thread

Most RPGs are garbage, but the ones that are good are very good since the nature of the game is requires the player to engross themself into the game for 20-40 hours in an experience and world that develops around you as your characters grow. It's a boom or bust genre not suited well for copy paste games.

You can make a generic run n gun game and as long as the controls are good it will be entertaining to pick up and play for a while no matter how lazy the game is. RPGs are the opposite, they require a ton of thought and intriguing mechanics or exploration to be rewarding, otherwise they're just a dreadfully boring waste of time.

>>5714601
This
Market forces have dictated the value of certain games. It's why people are willing to shell out 100s of dollars for Jrpgs like Earthbound and Chrono. They're that damned good. Meanwhile, you couldn't give away a copy of Planescape: Torment, the supposed premier CRPG.

>>5714569
Even if what you're saying it's true (it isn't), then that's still a big chunk of games.

>>5714078
>he says posting wojak edits
Neck yourself kiddo.

>>5714681
That's not wojack you newfag. It's "the boys." c
They're closer to trollface than wojack.

>>5714625
>It's a boom or bust genre not suited well for copy paste games.
this has some truth to it

as for my unpopular opinion, I think that 2D controls are horrible for games with fixed camera angles and prefer tank controls
I also miss prerendered backgrounds with fixed camera angles, it made locations feel more memorable as opposed to now where you're either in first person or staring at a character's back all the time

>>5713926
>the embodiment of time wasters.
this applies to all games you ridiculous cunt

Daily reminder opinion =/= fact

I'm playing Dragon Quest 1 and so far it has been a very grindy adventure. This is one JRPG where grinding is necessary: I was exploring a cave, my character had about 45HP max, and enemies were dealing about 3 to 6 HP per hit. Suddenly I face a dragon: it hits first for 26 HP, I try to escape and fail, it hits again for 30 HP and I die.

:(

>>5714182
You literally PLAY a game for 10 hours, you don't participate in a movie at all, you simply take in its story and aesthetics. What a retarded analogy.

>>5714543
>starting
jew confirmed

>>5714125
unfortunately while you have no evidence to back that up, i can go type in "low level run (any jrpg)" and get footage of the exact opposite of that. here's a video of someone beating kefka with the following party levels:
>6: Terra, Celes, Edgar, Sabin, Setzer, Relm, Shadow, Umaro
>7: Locke, Cyan
>8: Strago, Gogo
>11: Mog
https://youtu.be/_mUasFbjtLU?t=201
feel free to respond with "have sex!" and a smug anime girl, though.

Wolf 3d>Doom

>>5715224
He is not wrong, but you are not right either. The reason is you posted a video of someone aiming for a low level run, as opposed to someone playing the game normally. Under normal conditions, you don't need to know the vast majority of tricks the game has to offer.

To use a non-/vr/ example: Final Fantasy XII is one of my favorite Final Fantasy games. In normal conditions, the game was a cakewalk. When I went for perfect HP/MP, which required me to do a low level run until I gathered all my party members, suddenly I had to pull a lot of tricks to be able to survive. Does that mean Final Fantasy XII requires skill and actual strategy? No, playing the game normally is nothing more than luck and dicerolls, and that cannot even be said about the Final Fantasy series since in those games missing is a very rare affair when compared to western RPGs inspired by D&D tabletop mechanics.

Now, I don't have much experience with JRPGs, but I have played VI and that video doesn't invalidate the fact that FFVI is a very easy game to play and doesn't require skill or strategies at all because the game never forces you to get good: it's up to the player to come up with their own self-imposed challenges. Whether the game lets you pull off stuff like FFVI or FFX's numerous self imposed challenges doesn't change what I said earlier. It just means the game is more complex than it appears to be.

>>5715373
Using FF as an standard for quality in the genre is stupid in the first place, It's like using CoD of halo to talk about shooters.

An example of the contrary of what you're saying is Labyrinth of touhou 2 (not retro I know, but it's the first thing that came to mind) where in hard mode you literally can't fight a boss if you're below it's recomended level, or a lot+

>>5715217
>prewritten story and characters
>preset chronology for story events
>linear corridor-style stages
>special attacks are carried out through elaborate cinematics
>predetermined ending or set of endings to story

JRPGs are crafted to make you experience a story in an aesthetically-designed world, genius. they're not roguelikes or puzzle games.

>>5713926
This

Disclaimer: unless I say otherwise, JRPG = RPG made in Japan by a Japanese company or Japanese people.
>>5715389
>Using FF as an standard for quality in the genre is stupid in the first place, It's like using CoD of halo to talk about shooters.
I didn't say Final Fantasy was "the standard". I only said that anon used Final Fantasy VI as an example to prove that other anon wrong, but yet Final Fantasy VI is piss easy if you don't play with self-imposed challenges OR grinding.
>An example of the contrary of what you're saying is Labyrinth of touhou 2 (not retro I know, but it's the first thing that came to mind) where in hard mode you literally can't fight a boss if you're below it's recomended level, or a lot+
Sure. I never said there were no hard JRPGs. That said, you mentioned one of the biggest outliers: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 is a PC-exclusive dungeon crawler which (if I'm not mistaken) was not made by a known or even obscure developer, but by fans of Touhou. It's not even one of those JRPGs who are thought of to be difficult either because of broken balance (The 7th Saga) or because of how blunt they are when it comes to conveying info to the player (Saga series).

>>5715450
Sorry if some of my wording is or was weird since I'm phoneposting. but I didn't mean that you said that FF is a standart, but it feels as if people treat it like one, since it's basically the only fucking series people talk about in this type of thread.

I don't think we should discuss LoT2 too much since it isn't retro, but I'm almost sure that the guys that made it have made other games, LoT2 isn't as much of a fangame but a doujin game.

>>5715463
>Sorry if some of my wording is or was weird since I'm phoneposting. but I didn't mean that you said that FF is a standart, but it feels as if people treat it like one, since it's basically the only fucking series people talk about in this type of thread.
Yeah, sorry about that: now that you mention it the wording makes sense (I'm ESL).
And yeah, people treat FF as the standard. I personally loved the series when I was a teen, but I would love to play more JRPGs in the future. I'm enduring Dragon Quest at the moment because I've heard the series is heavily rooted in nostalgia, so playing the games in order will let me experience that. Plus it being a console game means there's nothing I have to deal with when it comes to annoying UI or terribly disgusting graphics, contrasted with games like Ultima IV.

Everything is boring. Everything is shallow. Everything is meaningless. I can't find any joy in anything. Video games have become a futile effort. Even being with other people is tedious, boring, dull, predictable. Basic human nature is so juvenile and tedious. The best I can do now is express my hate and distaste for that which I can no longer find any joy in.

>>5715774
Why do redditors post shit like this snarky shit to try and disprove your argument somehow? They really are just bots. Jarpigs suck dick.

>>5715886
Wouldnt know, I'm posting genuinely.

>>5713970

>>5714104
This is just being disingenuous, what he is saying is correct when it comes to the reality of how people engage with the games and how the games are designed, such low level runs are at very best extremely niche, at worst impossible. They're completely unintuitive challenges too that require you to go out of your way to enforce the rule, avoiding battles, ending up with very limited options, being forced to rely on cheese, and so on, so it's not like just doing a no death run. Needless to say that if this is how the games would be played, they would have no player base at all

>>5715774
I had this issue with games in general for for like 10 years now.

I feel that I would much rather read a book or watch a movie than play an (j)rpg becouse how everything is so shallow in terms of story-wise. I liked Witcher 3 and Yakuza 0 from the past few years.

The only enjoyment I get in the past year is NES Tetris.

>>5714757
Shit meme is still a shit meme.

seethe harder /vg/kids

>>5714096
nice way of looking at it
unlockable abilities/items is where its at
better still if those unlocks provide variety to your capabilities rather than simply more power
>>5714774
>prerendered backgrounds with fixed camera angles
best/fun games in this style?

>>5714095
90% of all players suck ass in any genre

>>5717379
And you should listen to most of those retards, and it's almost everybody in this thread.

>>5716023
>>5715373
I wasn't going to bother responding, but you guys are so violently retarded that I feel a need to.
The person I was responding to was claiming that gameplay in JRPGs boils down to luck and dicerolls rather than skill and actual strategies. >>5714125
I used an example of a low level run to point out that if the game is nothing but luck and dice rolls with no strategy, it would be impossible to do this. But because there is plenty of strategy with regards to equipping your team and using their skills, it is possible to do it. You retards proceeded to immediately latch onto "w-w-w-w-w-well B-B-B-BUT FF6 IS AN EASY GAME ANYWAY XDDDD" which is true, yes, but also not the fucking point of my post. The point of my post is this:
If an LLG is possible, it's possible to beat a game without grinding constantly. However, to the average retard (eg. you retards), grinding is necessary. What's the difference between these two players? One of them is able to make use of strategy in order to clear the game, the other sees no need to strategize and grinds unnecessarily for 20 hours instead of coming up with a way to complete the challenge with the abilities he has. Is LLG necessary? No. That's why the happy medium is "play the game normally without grinding like a retard while making proper use of strategy, which JRPGs DO in fact have."
"B-B-B-B-BUT FF6" was literally just a fucking example, the first JRPG that popped into my head. God I swear to christ you people are so fucking stupid I don't know how you even multitask breathing and shitposting.

>>5717379
Yeah the sad part here is that in those other genres they tend to say "x game is hard" not "hmm I'm a literal fucking retard who played the game completely wrong on purpose and am now declaring it's the game's fault and not mine that I fell for retarded internet memes."

>>5717393
>The person I was responding to was claiming that gameplay in JRPGs boils down to luck and dicerolls rather than skill and actual strategies.

No that's the discussion you went into after the post I replied to, learn to follow you dumb fuck. What he initially said is completely true that progression systems are used to hook faggots who don't like challenge and want an out, it's describing the reality of the genre while you're taking an extremely rare edge case and are using it to what...that hypothetically the games could have skill? Irrelevant since that's not how anybody but a couple of autists plays them, and even then not all games allow for such kind of extremely low level runs, good luck doing that shit in Dragon Warrior or Ys or whatever

I think alot that come on here are just the egotistical children/hipsters that go "oh I am such a nerdy gamer now" after watching a few episodes of big bang theory and come on here and other places to make contrarian posts to feed their ego and lack of attention.

>>5717393
Also, not grinding =/= challenge runs. You don't need to grind in these games to make them trivial, in fact there's only a very small handful of rpgs that actually take any thought to beat and even then it's limited to boss fights and pre battle planning with the fights themselves being minor variations on a basic attack/buff/heal loop.

>>5715774
Nowdays I play less games and watch more anime. You might need to find a different hobby to avoid the burn.

>>5713926
>90% of retro JRPGs and even Action games with RPG
Have you actually played 90% of them? There are far too many.

>>5715774
Hating everything is boring, the way you see your surrounding is boring. YOUR existence is boring.
Maybe you need to change something anon, do something out of the ordinary, leave the Internet for a month, stop visiting this site and the other 5 you visit on a daily basis, go outside and try to catch a grashopper, stop using that drug you are so used to to numb it all. This view point is purely subjective to your mind and body, and like games you can cheat it into doing something different again, but ya gotta change the way you play it. Get out of that comfort zone and kill the groundhog

>>5717432
>Legend of Zelda
uh oh

>>5717403
>>5717413
>still latching on to the same exact shit i gave as one example out of thousands
This is why I didn't want to respond to begin with, there really is no hope for an utter retard like you.

>>5717457
Are you actually disabled? You could list thousands of examples and none of it would matter because it has NOTHING to do with my point, it's simply you bringing up extremely rare players or theoretical possibilities that do not reflect how most people play RPG's which is what the original post talked about whether the guy realizes it or not. Looking at possible playstyles is useless when talking about how or why people play games, cookie clicker could also be strategic and challenging in the puzzle sense with the right set of self-imposed goals and rules. Yet it's played as a braindead idle game which people put on and watch numbers increment. This is like talking with a child.

>games need to challenge me or they aren't fun!!!
okay edgelord

6th generation is retro.

>>5717432
95% of the games in that image are carbon copies of each other with different coats of paint. Jarpigs in a nutshell. Play one and you've literally played them all.

>>5717473
Just wondering...
So you are saying that an activity that doesn't challenge your brain in any way is fun? What would be an example for this?
Sleeping? Coma? Meditating?
Games will challenge you by either stimulating audio/visual channels or by giving you a problem that needs an algorithm for your brain to create, short- as well as longterm solutions.
Which game is not challenging and worth playing?
A brown and dark mush of shit with no sound where you are a character that can walk on an infinite plane is one missing the stimuli, that doesn't sound like something I would want to play.

>tl:dr
Games without some form of challenge aren't worth playing. Games mentioned on this board are (almost) all challenging to a degree.

>>5713926
Literally every game is a time waster you fucking moron

Shmupsfags are mad because wrpgs and jrpgs are fun unlike their shit genre.
Oh btw arena shooters take more skill.

>>5717509
>What would be an example for this?
Eating chocolate. Eating chocolate requires no skill, but goddamn is it fun because it tastes great.
>Games without some form of challenge aren't worth playing.
Wrong, faggot

>>5717512
>Oh btw arena shooters take more skill.
Perhaps, too bad you're an RPG dweeb who sucks at both shmups and arena shooters though.

>>5717516
Are you stupid? Eating choco late stimulates the tounge and the muscles in your mouth, your brain is being permanent challenged in that moment. Endorphines need to be released and signals to your stomach have to be sent as well as to your mouth to produce more saliva. Hell, the brain already was challenged by the visual queue of seei g the choco late or resurfing the memory of chocolates in the past to make you want to eat the chocolate. It also needs to send Information that you dont fuck up and it would end in the wrong tube.

Eating chocolate is a challenge.
There is no game that does not challenge you in a way and is fun.

It is just not possible, maybe your defibition of challenge is off...

And again, a fun game is always challenging to an extent, proof me wrong anon.

>>5717536
>Eating chocolate is a challenge.
Is american chocolate really that bad

>>5717542
Nice rebuttal anon, what a extensive list of non-challenging fun games

>>5717512
>lumping WRPG chads that play hard games like wizardry in with JARPIG plebs
get lost nerd

>>5717575
>>5717528
Go back shmupniggers

jrpgs are interactive storytelling, much like adventure games or visual novels or whatever. every game with a narrative beginning and end is interactive storytelling to some degree. there is literally nothing wrong with preferring those games over pure "gameplay" games. people will talk about how jrpg stories are juvenile at face value as if the experience of playing through one weren't completely different from reading a story summary. they're games and not novels for a reason.

>>5713926
completely agree, i've never gotten anywhere in any final fantasy/dragon quest game that i've started but earthbound is my favorite game of all time

>>5717472
You're literally ignoring everything I say in favor of stamping your foot and screaming that I'm wrong, like a child or in this case just an incredibly embarrassing adult. It's just really funny to watch you complain about JRPGs when your preferred genre is "credit feed the same shmup for 50 hours until you memorize the entire game, then brag about my 1CC as if it took more skill than playing a long round of Simon." Will shmuptards ever wake up?

>>5717614
No what I'm saying is that even if you're right, it has nothing to do with the discussion, you're completely missing the point because you have a tiny brain. I don't even play shmups but watching the jrpgfag paranoid cope is amazing

>>5717624
"The discussion" is me calling someone retarded for saying jrpgs are nothing but luck and dice, and then you jumping in and displaying that you, too, are retarded. Everything beyond my first response to that guy is you LARPing and trying to put words in my mouth while repeatedly showing that you have room temp iq tier reading comprehension. Nobody is impressed, stop posting.

>>5717709
And yet again youre being a moron and not following the post chain properly. Listen cunt theres a reason I replied to your first reply rather than one of your later ones, its because you completely distracted the guy from his original point by bringing the low level run nonsense in (he replied saying its luck AFTER you said that) when his actual post was generalizing and clearly speaking about how the majority plays these games and why. Dont waste my time again dipstink

wait, there are games that aren't time wasters?

>>5717750
Skill-based games like Shmups are less of a waste of time than progression-based games like RPGs.

Shmups sucks. Literally autism the genre.

>>5714757
>wojack
neck yourself

>>5717756
Name one (1) non autistic video game genre

>>5714092
OH NO NO NO NO NO

>>5713926
Any game where you make progress by improving the character instead of improving yourself is a waste of time.

>>5718081
L
M
A
O
Unless you're learning a second language you haven't improved shit

>>5718081
>Implying that the two are somehow separated
>Implying improving yourself at the game can't lead to better improving a charater

>>5718086
This.
Playing an RPG in Japanese takes more IQ than playing arcade games.

>>5718086
I can take my dodonpachi skills, and use them in any other shmup. Good luck transferring your final fantasy character to dragon quest.

>>5718103
It doesn't work that way at all, daioujou skills are very different daifukkatsu skills

>>5718117
this is fake news

>>5718124
Skill doesn't transfer, you have to start from scratch with every game. Unless you're playing Psykyo those are all the same shit.

>>5718135
wrong

Haha, dumb cunt faggot loser. I will never see this again if you reply, twat.

>>5718138
Then you don't play the games you claim to be playing.

>>5714229
nazis all deserve to die and we are all better off with them gone.

>>5718086
Why do burgers venerate language learning so much? I speak 3 languages fluently and might learn chinkanese soon, its no big deal

>>5718135
Its the other way around Psikyo skills are less transferable because the games are so memo focused while in Caves the fundamentals are all highly transferable which has a big effect on how long it takes to get good at a game. But all shmups literally all of them have a fuckton of transferable skills when it comes to how you practice and improve

>>5718293
>nazis all deserve to die
wow that isn't very progressive of you

nobody no matter how big of a drain on society they are deserves death

shame
on
you

JRPG's would have been immersive if not for the grinding. The no level and low level games are more fun to play story wise.

Shmups belong on /vg/.

>>5718293
Is that what (((they))) programmed you to think?

>>5718293
not only nazis but all germans and white people need to die too

and no /vg/cuck adressed this>>5718074

and no /vg/cuck addressed this>>5718074

>>5719389
that poster was shitting on bmups which confirms he's a pleb, also treasure is overrated as fuck especially ikapooga

lmao seethe harder you got exposed.

>>5719425
have sex treasuretard

ok shmupkids

>god tier
playing for competitive success
>high tier
playing for score
>mid tier
playing for fun
>low tier
playing for aesthetics
>shit tier
playing for story

>>5713926
What do the retards who keep whining about how much they hate JRPGs think they are accomplishing by spending so much of their time complaining about a game genre they hate? I honestly can't think of anything more pathetic.

>>5719696
It's just an unpopular opinions thread bro, but rpgfags got all butthurt so now here we are

JRPGfags are the jews of videogame fanbases.

>OY VEY, HOW DARE YOU NOT LIKE GAMES WITH EXPERIENCE SYSTEMS AND DEEP ANIME WAIFU STORIES YOU BIGOT

Streets of Rage 3 > SOR2

>>5717393
>I wasn't going to bother responding, but you guys are so violently retarded that I feel a need to.
This is off to a great start.
>The person I was responding to was claiming that gameplay in JRPGs boils down to luck and dicerolls rather than skill and actual strategies
Yes.
>The point of my post is this: If an LLG is possible, it's possible to beat a game without grinding constantly. However, to the average retard (eg. you retards), grinding is necessary.
Have you even played Final Fantasy VI? Do you know why is it called a "LLG"? Because it's a "low level game", i.e. you try to use the lowest level possible, i.e. you try to MAINTAIN the lowest level possible. A person playing the game normally doesn't have such limitation, they play and beat enemies to their heart's content.

Do you know how a low level run is achieved in Final Fantasy XII? You MUST avoid gaining levels. It's not even above "just don't grind bro", but literally "don't gain experience or your low level run is not one anymore". And this is why I said:
>Now, I don't have much experience with JRPGs, but I have played VI and that video doesn't invalidate the fact that FFVI is a very easy game to play and doesn't require skill or strategies at all because the game never forces you to get good: it's up to the player to come up with their own self-imposed challenges.
If you play Final Fantasy VI normally, defeating enemies as you encounter them as any reasonable person would, you will NOT reach the end game with such a low level party, meaning you will NOT need to come up with elaborate strategies to defeat the game.

The point of my post is that: yes, Final Fantasy VI CAN require skill; no, Final Fantasy VI DOESN'T require skill if you play the game without self-imposed challenges. The same goes for Final Fantasy X, XII, and many other RPGs alike.

Also holy shit, JRPGs are terrible games for anyone BUT someone who is completely infatuated with anime stories.

The best JRPGs are those who say "fuck anime stories" and do their own thing: Vagrant Story, Dark Souls, Nocturne, etc., games with minimal storytelling.

it makes shmupfags like you seethe so they are based.

When will retards realize that Ys and other "hardcore action-RPGs" are only good IN SPITE of their progression systems, not because of them?

>>5717432
>recommending shitty ports over originals
You can tell an EOP made this.

>>5721956
>Ys
>hardcore
The tagline of the first game was "gentle RPG". It's literally designed to be entry level. And the shitty remakes are even easier too, especially PCE.

It's true the Ys I&II progression system is kind of dumb, since there is not much flexibility; you can fight bosses as soon as you are able to, in which case battles are long and difficult, or grind a bit to get one extra level so that they are manageable. That said, at least the experience gain is scaled such that you usually can't overlevel unless you're a huge autist, and the level cap ensures that the last stretch of the game is still a decent challenge, at least by modern standards.

The system only really gets in the way when you are replaying the games, otherwise it is not an issue.

>>5722050
I forgot about Wanderers of Ys too, haven't actually played it yet but I did hear it's a grindfest.

>>5722050
When people talk about Ys difficulty they're only talking about the newer remakes like Complete/Chronicles and Felghana on Nightmare. In Ys 1 remake your level gets capped as soon as you reach batman, and Felghana/Origin have boss rush modes with pre-set levels. The original games are grindfests and total jokes, you heard right about Ys 3.

>>5722064
Are you a PCE baby? "Nightmare" mode is basically the same shit as the original. It's how it's supposed to be (ok, maybe a little harder but not by much). I hate talking about that game when no one plays the original and has warped perceptions because they only know remakes.

>>5722064
>>5722070
Also...
>In Ys 1 remake your level gets capped as soon as you reach batman
How can you call it a "grindfest" when you admit you hit the level cap less than halfway through the game? You're full of shit if you seriously think that.

BASED MODS FUCK SHMUPNIGGERS

>>5722070
No it's not, in what fucking world are they the same? All the boss attacks are very different and significantly more dangerous in the modern remakes, like you can run laps around the two heads in the original game and dark fact is piss easy when in the remakes he's 90% of the game's challenge by himself

>>5722101
>All the boss attacks are very different and significantly more dangerous in the modern remakes
no.

>like you can run laps around the two heads in the original game
no clue what you're talking about. It's the same fight, or easier if anything in remakes because of movement granularity.

DF isn't a "challenge", just utter BS. they fucked it up.

You sound like all you did was watch youtube videos of the original and thought you know how it works.

>>5722070
>maybe a little harder but not by much
>comparing Dark Fact Nightmare on 60 fps with anything PCE

>>5714030
>that's all vidya, bruh
No because OP's categorization works inside of the set of objects called "video games". Yours works across all activities.
Learn the difference.

>>5722126
1. DF doesn't count because the retards in charge of that remake turned it into basically RNG to win. Everything that presents an actual challenge is barely more difficult than the original.
2. PCE isn't the original you moron.

you know you've fucked up when you're on the same side as trannyjannies

>>5722118
No it's not, he has much slower movement thus easier to predict and memorize, shoots off less projectiles, they even do less damage, the fight's a complete joke compared the remake counterpart the orig movement hardly even makes a difference when you take so little damage
>DF isn't a "challenge", just utter BS
Cope, it's a straightforward simple challenge with no bullshit once you understand how it works

>>5722139
>static screen bouncing
>RNG to win

>>5722150
Yes it's slower, i.e. not bullshit, because the "challenge" there is using the right equipment, and again, the game is supposed to be accessible. Having shit flying everywhere that's basically impossible to dodge isn't a challenge either. And I cleared both.

>Cope, it's a straightforward simple challenge with no bullshit once you understand how it works
The original is, yeah.

>>5722173
Never thought I'd see retards defending shitty remakes on /vr/ of all places, I guess EOPs really can't stand the idea of not being able to played superior originals.

>>5722173
Needing the right equipment is a challenge in the remake too, except it has a fight on top of it. You're not gonna dodge dark fact's random fireballs with that limited movement in the original either, who are you kidding? They're the same type of challenge which is a dps race with some very light dodging, the remake's just way harder.

>>5722186
>You're not gonna dodge dark fact's random fireballs with that limited movement in the original either, who are you kidding
This is how I know 100% you didn't play it.

>>5722192
Record yourself doing a no damage run of Dark Fact in the original game, hell record yourself doing half the the fight without taking damage. Good luck, literally

>>5717406
/thread

>>5717406
I'm sure there are some people like that here, but I think the biggest problem with the board are people who come here, not to discuss retro games, but to get nostalgic about their childhood videogames and people who play retro games because they're the only games they can emulate, they don't have the latest consoles or a good enough PC to play the latest games /v/ is talking about so they're forced to play old games they don't necessarily like

>>5723286
>new games are bad
>old games are less bad
What do?

>>5713926
>video games, by definition, are designed as a entertainment activity with sole purpose of passtime, or 'waste time'.
>JRPG's, by your own definition, are the embodiment of time wasters
>Faggot complains that 'time wasters' 'waste time'.

I beg you. Return to /V/.

Garegga sucks

>>5726430
git gut

>>5726871
It's a poorly designed meme game

>>5726872
name 1 example of bad design in garegga

>>5726889
Poor bullet clarity

>>5713990
You need the ocarina to open the door.

>>5726890
get better eyesight. i can see the bullets just fine. or use the type 2 version that replaces bullets with orange balls

>>5726934
Yep, not allowed to criticise anything. back to your tranny safe space

>>5726936
lol? i don't hang out with trannies. now quit acting like a tranny faggot making excuses and learn to play some garegga

>>5726952
Triggered because someone said wrongword

Everyone in this thread is a turbo faggot except for me.

>>5726934
>use the type 2 version that replaces bullets with orange balls

Damn... this could really help me. I have colorblindness and I always had troubled distinguishing the garegga bullets from the background. Are there any other gameplay changes, or is it just the bullets?

>>5713926
The only metric about whether or not a game is a "time waster" is if the player is having fun while playing it or not. Literally every game could be a time waster if the player is not enjoying it, and literally any game is worth the time of the player if they enjoy it.

Exceptions, I guess, if you're somehow making money by playing it. That's not a waste of time, even if you don't enjoy it.

>>5726934
>or use the type 2 version that replaces bullets with orange balls
Oh cool, I have always been turned off by Garegga because I'm used to neon pink Caveshit. Will try this out, good tip!

>>5727171
Your welcome, don't forget to play BatRider and the rest of Raizing's shmups as well.

>>5713926
You don't need to make this thread anon, this is already the contrarian board.