/vr/ - Retro Games

Yes, Thief 2 is a boring stealth game

>>5684820
as >>5684991 pointed out, thief 2 is all about sneaky missions, but 4chans contrarians now think that the survival horror missions made thief 1 a superior game to the sequel.

Stop playing Western SHIT and start playing actual games from Japan.

>>5685021
>but 4chans contrarians
I played the first back in 2000 knowing full well that it is going to be a steampunk + supernatural game. And I was really happy with the result, whereas Thief 2 was way too much urban thiefing compared to what I learned to love.
not everyone is a 4chan contrarian cause it fits your narrativ. Some people actually like that you not only rob estate #3 for the second time with more guards.
The tomb raiding fits the world really well, yet I can see why some people don''t like it but therefore they have 2 and I have gold.

But thats not sheep raider

>>5685024
Thief>MGS
Now fuck off plebian weeb

Thiefags are cancer. Tenchu was the first 3d stealth game and was better.

>>5684820
It does get boring, because its too easy, or rather, the consequences for fucking up aren't dire enough. I played a lot of FMs and eventually I realized the only reason I kept playing all this time was the comfyness.

Remove its atmosphere and minimalistic UI and there isn't much left.

>>5685024
I started playing this and honestly got so tired about two hours into the game I gave up. The amount of cutscenes/codec conversations was unbearable.

>>5685024
>>5685106
Niggers.

Thief sucks literally the worst LGS game.
>>5685401
Thief tranny

>why yes I believe city missions are garbage how could you tell?

>>5684820
The later levels can be done stealthily as well.
>>5685021
What made me enjoy Thief 2 less is that the locations were really repetitive and samey, and it couldn't keep up the tension the same way Thief 1 did. Also TMA's story is objectively the worst in the original trilogy, the devs even admitted that they created the levels first, and the story was an afterthought. And it shows. In this regard even Thief DS works better as a Thief game, because it brings back the supernatural and spooky stuff.

>>5685426
>garbage
T1 fanboi here
I wouldn't call them garbage.

>>5685024
MGS has piss poor stealth gameplay. Also it plays much more like a movie that has 5 minutes of interaction in between. It's a great game, but the nomer of "stealth-action espionage" is much closer than that of stealth-shooter.

>>5685209
You can skip the cutscenes, retard.

>>5684820
The idea of stealth as a genre wasn't solidified until 1998, with Thief itself, MGS1 and Tenchu. Looking Glass Studios wasn't trying to make a pure stealth game but an action-adventure (like Tomb Raider for example) game.

>>5688494
NOO NOOO YOU CANT SAY THAT LGS IS GOD THIEF IS A MASTERPIECE AND THE BEST STEALTH GAME EVER PLEB PLEB PLEBBB KOJIDRONE WEEB CONSOLEKID.
WHO CARES IF TENCHU DID IT FIRST ARRRGGGHDD

>>5685426
You keep photos of half naked males on your computer and roleplay with them.

I'm playing thief 3 with sneaky upgrade for the first time and sometimes fps drop to 30 with no reason, no shadows or lights or anything. What could be the problem?

>>5689095
>What could be the problem?
3 is a janky xbox game

>>5689097
So it's not the pc problem, it's normal?

>>5684820
nigga it's a D&D thief class simulator

this shit isn't complicated

I stumbled upon the texture of the fire arrow that was used in the 'Tools of the Trade' trailer. I tried to retexture the noise arrow, but it won't accept the texture. I figured I would retexture a broadhead. That works, but I'm stuck at the arrowhead. It needs to be invisible. When I try to retexture it with an all black texture (all black should render invisible) you see a black tip.

Is using an object modelling program my only option or am I doing something wrong with the image editing?

>>5688165
Am I supposed to think the game is better because of this? Because it's not. It's one thing to skip cutscenes because you know the story. It's another to want to skip cutscenes because they are garbage.

>>5685024
I only just started playing this for the first time (27) and holy fuck. I used to think MGS5 was pretty good but now I understand why everyone said it was shit.

>>5684820
stealth still applies in the undead missions, you underage retard

>>5688494
demonstrably false

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzD9ldLoc3c

>>5685426
city missions can be good if they have a clear sense of purpose instead of trying to be open world.

an OM that did it right is Assassins. here you're first following the assassins through the city, and then escaping back home while trying to avoid ramirez' henchmen. at no point in the mission do you just explore the city aimlessly (although you can do so after following the assassins, if you want).

a fan mission that did this right is mission 2 i calendra's legacy. that mission had a massive explorable city, but you don't get to actually explore it at leisure. in the first third, the guards are friendly but but you have a time limit. in the second third, the guards are hostile and on the edge, and you don't have a blackjack to get rid of them. in the second third, you have a blackjack but the city is now overrun with unblackjackable zombies. the result of this design is that the player always has to evaluate the surroundings to navigate and find the most effective route to the destination (even though you have the agency to move however you please through the city). you move more like you would in a real city. you move with purpose.

skacky and melan do the opposite of this. their city missions are absolutely huge, but here, the main objective is never the first thing on your mind. instead you take your time to carefully explore every hook and cranny of the streets, the back alleys and the rooftops, while breaking into and looting every explorable building. you have no sense of aim or purpose, because you know that as long as you open every door and loot everything, you'll clear the objectives sooner or later. these missions also lack challenge because they're full of "islands" that NPCs can't reach.

>>5685024
dude, I ...

>>5688165
>You can skip the cutscenes, retard.
AFAIK cutscenes in MGS may contain vital info for progression, so you are forced to sit through most cringeworthy writing, retard
kojima is a genesis

>>5688494
>Looking Glass Studios wasn't trying to make a pure stealth game but an action-adventure (like Tomb Raider for example) game.
this is just factually wrong. why would you so blatantly lie on the interweebs?
watch from the marker to about 2:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzD9ldLoc3c&t=76

>>5685021
is there anything more convenient than using the contrarian buzzword to respond to actual arguments?
arguments against zombies in thief always boil down to some strange teleological reasoning about how thief II is what thief I was "supposed" to be.

truth is, thief II was visually incoherent (art deco makes no sense in a setting inspired by the industrial revolution). it had the weakest plot in the series (literal anime-tier villain wants to destroy humanity just because, is also cruel towards street urchins to help you understand how evil he is, pagans dindu nuffin they noble savages, etc etc). finally, despite the claims that thief 1 didn't have enough mansions, thief II actually had the same number of mansions, exceot this time they're much weaker as missions. the first one is an ultra-linear tutorial level (because LGS couldn't bother with a real tutorial this time). the one in masks is dull and ruined by the fact that it's used for two missions in a row. that leaves blackmail, which is actually a decent level.

>>5685024

Lmao all this assblasted thiefags. Dead series. Very mediocre.

>>5689023
don't you? What are Faggot?

>>5689802
I bet you think Skyrim is a good game.

>>5688518

>>5689810
Based.

Except thiefags are the ones that love to shit on other stealth series and games in general. Nice try faggots.

>>5689802
>>5689830
LATER... on /vr/

:^) [/]

>>5689809
No i think doom, duke, system shock, unreal, ultima, fallout, half life, quake, deus ex are good games.

>>5689830
you do realize that this is a thief thread?
YOU came here to shitpost cutscene-fag

>If you dont like thief you are mgsfag
Also muh thief circlejerk thread.

>>5689836
why is the closing bracket in its own spoiler?

>>5689839
>Duke
Dead series. Very mediocre.
>System Shock
Dead series. Very mediocre.
>Ultima
Dead series. Very mediocre.
>Fallout
May as well be dead. Very mediocre.
>Half-Life
Dead series. Very mediocre.
>Quake
Dead series. Very mediocre.

Anyone listened to the new podcast?

>>5689636
great post, I agree wholeheartedly

>>5689887
>System Shock
>dead series
nigga you dumb

>>5689936
For that matter, Thief released five years ago.

>>5689810
nice

>>5684820
>devolve into a zombie-ridden action game toward the end

By the SECOND FUCKING LEVEL.
I was looking to rob barons and robber barons. Instead I'm playing midevil Ghostbusters.

>>5690082
?

the second level had hammerites. there were only like four zombies in a mine in the beginning

Ackchyually, breaking Cutty out of jail is the third mission. However, the Bonehoard isn't exactly the end of the game either.

>>5690117
>breaking Cutty out of jail is the third missio
fucking wron
Bafford
Cragscleft
Bonehard
t. currently replays the game and just finished the seoncd level

Does Thief 2 work on Win10? Wanna reinstall it. I had fun with it but never passed level 2.

>>5690160
yes
but you need some community mods for proper resolution

>>5684820
eidos boxes are so weird

>>5690142
A Keepers Training
Bafferino
Cragsleftu (file is called miss3.mis)
Bonerhorse

>>5690191
wew
wouldn't call the training a mission since it is skipabble but technichally you are right and I give you that.

>>5690082
The Dark Project had a great way of introducing the world. First level is a medieval city, but if you're explorative and observant, you get this "wtf electric lights in middle ages?" weird feeling. Then in the second level the first notable thing you see is a morbid corpse with flies above it. Which is gross, but it's what you would expect to find in the abandoned medieval mine. What you don't expect is when another corpse stands up behind your back when you pass it by. Then you find this broken chapel and learn to charge arrows with holy water, and by this point you realize the world is not only placed on a weird time-technology curve, but also has this "mysticism" ingredient in it.

>>5690227
and this mix is why the first is absolutely top tier.
the second wolrd can't build up the same athmosphere.
I would even arge it doesn't even try but to establish the dystopian steampunk atmosphere which is in my opinion not even close to the first.

>>5689940
>Garrett the master thief
>gets caught repeatedly in unskippable cutscenes
We don't talk about that Thief.

>>5684820
what makes theif mechanically the best stealth game?

>>5690405
the absence of superpowers and deadly weapons that can kill 20 enemies at once. You still can kill but you will get your ass kicked by 2 Hammerites.
This way you get railroaded into sneaking instead of comboing your way through 100000 guards.

anyone got some Fan Mission recommendations?

>>5690410
isnt that more game design then mechanics?

>>5690306
not as bad as 47 getting randomly knocked out by a fat mexican

>>5689636
But the only Melan missions like that are Prowler and Disorientation (Prowler being a tiny 20 minute mission so who cares). Bad Debts and Rose Garden in particular have very deliberate progression influenced by the Calendra series.

>>5690487
Yeah but the mechanics like visibility and sound are mostly the same if you compare it to other stealth games.
I would say that it mostly comes from being consistent in that regard.
strip the game from the atmosphere and it becomes a really dull stealth game with 08/15 mechanics

You can stay undetected in every mission, the supernatural ones are just harder.

>>5689636
The more "open world" city missions are good too, they actually feel like a city that you can explore and rob, whereas the kind of city missions you are talking about could be dressed up as a sewer level or anything else. The rooftops are supposed to be the thieves highway.

>>5690551
i would say mechanically chaos theoy is best but thata off topic and not retro. Also, i agree the biggest thing theif has going for it is atmosphere which its amazing at.

>>5684820
>>5690410
>>create what may mechanically be the greatest stealth game ever made
AAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA
I know it's your childhood and whatnot but you can't be serious. The damn blackjack functionally kills guards but labels them alive. And the movement, well, let's just say it leaves something to be desired.
shit, even games with superpowers have mechanical risks to knocking someone from stealth out vs. killing them from stealth. in some games it's time, and in TLOU it's time+resources.
>the absence of superpowers and deadly weapons
like really is that the best you can come up with? is thief really mechanically superior to doing sa/so runs in a good hitman game? c'mon.

Thief has godlike level structure and yes it was groundbreaking but it really did not have the mechanically sound foundation that games like Mario 3 and Doom had that makes it godlike even compared to current games. Not saying Thief is as unplayable as a Tomb Raider, but it's absolutely not anywhere near the best game mechanically.
>inb4 some tard thinks I haven't tried playing outside of the default controls or I didn't install the fix
>inb4 player movement and controls aren't mechanics

>>5690709
many enemies are unblackjackable, though, like robots and undeads.

>mission 2 of thief gold is kicking my ass
>playing without saving on expert for muh tension
>run from a bunch of hammerites when I find a civilian in my way
>probably a guy I released accidentaly
>blackjack him in the back of the head to get him out of my way
>lose the mission
>[x] Don't kill anyone!

did I kill this fucker accidentally?
or if the hammerites kill a civilian does that count as my fault?
what if I lure a zombie to a hammerite? I did that, one dude died and the other smoked the zombie but I didnt lose at that instant

>>5690709
im not op and i like hitman more than theif atm (playing through thief gold for the first time) but hitman doesnt really have more stealth mechanis than theif especially in saso because you cant count taking disguises. Also the movement really is fine leaning is helpful and you have a good enough jump. It also takes more work to set up ambuses to blackjack gaurds then to just kill em. Im not completly familiar with my history but was there any other game out when theif was released that was mechanically supieror? It might have been suprassed now but theif is still better as a stealth game then a lot of modern games.

>>5690746
you really should save anon

>>5690797
but
my tension

>>5690949
just put self restrictiona on how many times you save like hitman does on higher difdiculties unleasa youre not going to get to frusterated and burn out

>>5689427
have you tried editing the broadhead original texture? maybe the fire arrow one isn't the right size

>>5690496
I don't remember much about Bad Debts but Rose Garden was easily one of the most tedious missions I've ever played. It really felt like almost everything in the mission, from the objectives to simply finding your way through the map, was deliberately made as obtuse as possible just to pad out the length of the mission. I never got that impression while playing the Calendra series (other than perhaps that body parts objective in Cistern)

>>5690607
>whereas the kind of city missions you are talking about could be dressed up as a sewer level or anything else.
Not him but did you even play Midnight in Murkbell?

>want to replay Thief 1
>remember the Cathedral

>>5690551
>Yeah but the mechanics like visibility and sound are mostly the same if you compare it to other stealth games.
Brah you are factually wrong, thief had unprecedentedly cool sound system and was the first game I can recall to be so dark when it comes to visuals. Both properties very important to stealth systems.
Now most stealth games seem similar, because they try to copy the best solutions in the genre, so this is not surprising.

btw I don't think I know any game /vr/ or not that does audio cues as good as thief does

>>5685024
*snap*

>>5690709
what are you talking about?
> And the movement, well, let's just say it leaves something to be desired.
Your entire post looks like some student's "come up with some criticism of <old_classic_game_here>'s game design" exercise and clearly you lack some understanding of fundamentals. the most important one, there is no such thing as a 'prefect' game design.

Also there is nothing wrong with movement in thief. It is not as fluid as in DooM by design, and it does what it was designed to achieve.

>>5690709
read my next post madlad
stop being such a salty little child

>>5691382
>it was the first
>nothing was better
other games not being better doesn't mean it is a masterpiece though.
It has literally nothing else than the perfect atmosphere and blackjacking peole in the dark.
I really love the game but you are as obnoxious as >>5690709

>>5690982
Recouloring FIRETIP doesn't work, but ARROWHD does. Part of me is bothered by the 'hole' (similar to the blackjack), but who is going to see that?

>>5690982
Recolouring 'FIRETIP' doesn't work, but using 'ARROWHD' instead does render the arrowhead transparent. Part of me is bothered by the 'hole' (similar to the blackjack), but who is going to notice that?

>>5691714
>>5689427
How about you just make a normal mission with the basic tools at hand and not try to be a special snowflake faggot for the sake of being a snowflake.

This is the kind of shit that brought us god awful missions like FTM Life

>>5690746
Save once per completed objective and only reload if you die, get stuck or fail the mission.

>>5690709
>hitman

>>5691741
Who knew that restoring cut content = tranny missions.

>>5691749
I think he means that focusing too much on custom assets, such as an old version of the fire arrow, instead of developing a mission as a whole leads to disastrous results. That's true. However, I'm doodling in Dromed to get my mind of things. I have a description of a tavern/starting point but I have trouble translating it into 3d space. I do something else until I come up a new insight.

>>5691662
> you are as obnoxious as
first of all, behave yourself, or I'm not wasting any effort on you

>it was the first
>nothing was better
this really is not what I was trying to say.
I was trying to comment on this observation of yours
>Yeah but the mechanics ... are mostly the same ... compare it to other stealth games.
My comment is that this isn't a flaw by any means. Especially if you take into account that those "other stealth games" are trying to "improve", e.g. copy, on the best mechanic present in the genre, which happen to be Thief.

Also game authors tune before-mentioned mechanics to create the feel and playstyle they want for their players. Thief created a great playstyle (check out the interview posted twice in this board on what was the intention), that haven't been done better for all 20 years since its release. That is why new players are still discovering this gem and loving it.

If you disagree I would call you out and ask you to present a title that does it better. Not neetman style gameplay, not MGS style gameplay, the being-both-vulnerable-and-all-powerful-in-the-shadow style gameplay

>>5691747
>here is you stealth brah

>>5691851
>>first of all, behave yourself, or I'm not wasting any effort on you
>all the text
kek

>>5691856
forgive the first time, move on the second time, retard

Having played Thief Gold and Thief 2 I have to say that "Escape!" is absolute garbage and the worst mission in either game.

>>5691902
at least escape can be finished pretty quickly, unlike the thieves' guild

>>5690746
IIRC, the prisoners in mission 2 have 1 HP, and the blackjack does exactly 1 damage. So yeah, you don't want to blackjack them.

>>5691941
yeah I found that out in the wiki
I also blackjacked an acolyte and got a game over, fucking hell
good thing I decided to drop the ironman shit and had an earlier save

>>5690709
>And the movement, well, let's just say it leaves something to be desired.
how? the mere fact that there's a non-contextual way of climbing over obstacles and leaning makes it better than 99% of today's games in that regard.

>>5691984
beating someone to death with a blackjack isn't the same thing as knocking them out.

the acolyte can definitely be blackjacked without losing the mission.

>>5691902
>>5691908
kidnap and particularly fucking soulforge are way, waaaay worse than escape or thieves guild.

>>5691851
>Not neetman style gameplay, not MGS style gameplay, the being-both-vulnerable-and-all-powerful-in-the-shadow style gameplay

old splintercell does this better than atleast theif one

>>5684820
AHEM
THIEF IS GOOD
/thread

>>5691747
Dilate thieftranny

>>5691747
Just like my Jason Statham movies.

>>5691869
why are you so buttdevastated?
I didn't even read the first time past the meme laugher and won't read the second lel

Tenchu did it first.
Also Goldeneye and Strife.

>>5692321
strife's stealth barely works. even the fucking invisibility sphere in doom was more useful.

>>5692321
None of those games had proper sound propagation or light-shadow system. Same about MGS.

>>5692321
tenchu did a somewhat different thing first.
Also it doesn't really matter and here is why, while I enjoyed tenchu back in the day, sadly I must confess it didn't age well, I just can't enjoy it after playing other stealth games.

Thief on the other hand is still golden

>>5692076
>old splintercell does this better
OK at this point I'm pretty sure you are clueless to what I'm trying to say, it may be my fault, may be it's your's. We'll have to admit, you just like other things better.

>>5691773
Well that's entirely correct but replicating old TDP stuff is cool too.

>>5692634
>didn't age well
opinion discarded

>>5688031
VR Missions is far superior for actual game play.

>>5692642
i will clarify and say i wasnt the anon u replied to but tru theif isnt my favoite of the big stealth games. However, theif is still dope

The level design really ruins Thief. The stealth mechanics are great. What's not great is wandering around some gay labyrinth full of completely useless dead ends for hours trying to figure out where to go.

>>5692771
>>5691773
Yes that's what I meant. Considering you made Station to Station and I know it's you don't deny it, one of the most disrespectful excuses of a mission ever you should be focusing on how to actually build something on your own instead of focusing on cut content for the sake of it.

Post some meaningful pictures of what you've been working on, my man. I want to see some progress from you.

>>5693130
you know it's true

>>5693961
The mission was a boring non mission that would have forgotten in a day by any normal community, but I loved the fact that it caused so much butthurt among faggots like you. In that sense I find it far more memorable than any "epic" city mission ever made by the frog squad and I know you're one of them, don't deny it

>>5690709
>And the movement, well, let's just say it leaves something to be desired.

why would you leave this weird placeholder phrase in the middle of your post instead of explaining what your problem is with the movement? your post reads like you have early onset alzheimer's and you forgot what you were going to write.

>>5694521
I wouldn't be caught dead living as a frog or any subhuman European, nice try. Curious that you instantly went for the french authors route when the only person's work from that group I like is Skacky

For argument's sake, what missions do you like? I bet you liked FTM Life or some shit soul_tear/zontik mission

so how does the AI in Thief work? I'm playing on Expert
at first glance it seems you cant blackjack a guard if he is alerted and looking for you, he will be aware of your presence even if you approach slowly from a soft surface

>>5694789
leaning forward and blackjacking is extremely powerful. it can knock out people in search mode even if they're facing your way.

guards giving chase can also be knocked out with this method, assuming you're invisible. if you're being chased by a guard, you can find a shadow, do a 10 turn, lean forward and bonk him. if it lands before he enters his fight stance you might knock him out. very useful

I'm working on a Thief-esq game myself and I'm wondering how you guys feel about the open world city areas inbetween missions in Thief 3/4. I know they're not generally liked but I'm curious as to why and what arguments there are for keeping them in/out.

Thank you in advance for any answers you can give me.

I just realized that Cetus Amicus means Whale Friend

is there any reason anyone would make a fan mission for Thief 1 ranther than 2?

is it a problem with the assets?

>>5695259
They have different assets so if you wanted to use T1's you'd have to spend time importing them to T2. This is easier now with newdark than it used to be, but now there's not much of a difference between editing for either of the games (where previously T2's version of the dark engine and dromed were more capable) so you might as well take that convenience.

>>5695296
ah ok

I find it odd that the ttlg threads linked for recommendations stop at 2014, I'm pretty sure some worthwhile stuff has come out since then
I dunno, you got any cool stuff that has come out recently? patriot seems interesting since it looks like a full fledged campaing like T2X

>>5695316
Don't bother with Patriot, it's full of weird shit and obtuse design and you're not likely to get much out of it unless you want to marvel at dromed tricks.
The recent Dark Project 20th anniversary contest missions are cool.

I need thief memes and edits

>>5695976
fuck off

>>5695986
no u

>>5690746
bit late, but another thing you should watch out for is that if you drop a knocked out body into water they'll drown and you'll fail

>>5695976

>>5693150
Perhaps to regular MGS, not to Thief.

MGS requires the player to simply memorise commands and guard patterns to succeed. Thief has a procedural difficulty that requires contingency plans and creative thinking, using all the tools at your disposal. A Big Boss playthrough of MGS is a matter of training and practise, an Expert playthrough is entirely possible by being intelligent and creative in the moment.

>>5693893
> I am easily confused by levels that arent just a long corridor that never derives from the designed railroad

>>5694940
What is your game about?
One of the main issues with a hub is that traveling through one becomes boring after a while. Are there any places you go to often, like work, school or something else? How do you travel to that place? Do you like commuting? What catches your attention while traveling?

>>5696818
fix

>>5685024
Psycho Mantis still stands out as an incredible fight, glad they kept it gimmicky on the remake too

>>5694940
>I know they're not generally liked
lmao what? they can't get enough of that boring shit

>>5697174
>ask for his favorite fm yesterday
>doesnt answer
>still throws bait out like this

go home, faggot

>>5694940
I think most would prefer if you made separate missions(just like thief 1 and 2, for example) that took place in city sections instead of creating a wider general city area with mission points in between.

The former would most likely lead to a boring and aimless city section just like thief 3 and 4, where it could have neat architecture but ultimately no objective to strive for. Basically just time padding for no reason.

The latter will at least have some sort of direction and end goal to strive towards, be it actual objects to grab/take or loot goals to work towards in the mean time. People with ADHD and slight retardism like the poster shitting his pants about city mission would probably shit their pants again, but they're easily ignored.

>>5697267
Sorry, switch around the "former" and "latter", it's too late to keep posting for me

Speaking of thief 3 is it worth playing? Ive ever seen anyone talk about it here.

>>5697251
make me nigger

>People with ADHD and slight retardism like the poster shitting his pants about city mission would probably shit their pants again, but they're easily ignored.

thief sucks.

Ok what's up with this AI
>doing the mission in the fucked up trickster mansion
>get found out by a guard
>run like hell
>jump down a to a garden
>hide out of view in a dark patch
>ok he should lose me now
>he comes all the way back and finds me like he has telepathy

>>5697321
Dude, I have ADD and fuck this incel. People with ADD can be functioning, but this dude is a whole new level.

>>5684820
Uh... Did you play the game? The mines are literally the second level after the tutorial, and they have zombies.

>>5697321
>>5697982
zoomzoom

>>5697982
>Dude, I am literally mentally ill but fuck this guy for having a different opinion. Fucking loser. What an incel, tranny loving faggot he must be! He probably loves this tranny FM I can't shut the fuck up about. Projection, what's that? I bet he's a fat fuck too, and likes speedrunning shitty games in his mom's basement. Yeah.

>>5698167
>mentally ill
not that anon, but ADD and ADHD are both first world meme diagnoses. in any other society they would just be considered normal people with shitty personalities.

>>>/wsr/685236
Can any of you oldfags help me?

>Rose Garden was easily one of the most tedious missions I've ever played. It really felt like almost everything in the mission, from the objectives to simply finding your way through the map, was deliberately made as obtuse as possible just to pad out the length of the mission.

>>5697174
Are you still this butthurt my Bulgarian friend?

>>5698628
pretty sure it's 3

haven't played it but i don't remember your quote form 1 or 2

>>5689023
He's not real, so wrong.

>>5699181
seethe

>>5699207
No, not that fag. But I do remember how you threw that spergtastic hissy fit on twitter because of that silly off-hand comment he made and how you were still mad at him for months after the fact. Pathetic really, that internet tough guy persona really doesn't suit you, scaca.

>>5700051
I wasn't mad at him for months, HE was mad at me for months. He even stalked my Twitter account despite me blocking him and made snide remarks on TTLG thinking I wouldn't see them.
I'm curious to know who you are, though. You write too well to be that guy.

>>5700051
>seethe

I know you are, I'd be seething too if I couldn't read a fucking map

>>5690495
At least the entire story of Absolution is all literally lies, and that series bounced back with the greatest installments in it so far.

>>5685209
Then stay away from MGS 2 because the amount of codec conversations is far more superior and it's used as a plot point in Raiden's story

how do you guys feel about the theif gold missions?

>>5703662
Mages Towers is alright albeit rather boring with its barren tower interior architecture. Song of The Caverns is great all around. Thieves Guild is the worst mission in the trilogy.

>>5703662
Very bad. Thieves guild is completely unrelated to the plot, and the two talisman missions needlessly overextend the cathedral subplot (returning to the cathedral 4 missions after feels like ages and breaks the game's pace).

Can you even get GoldtoDark to work with Tfix Lite?

>>5704107
I liked mages tower in the begining, untill i realized I was going to have to go through all 4 towers. I still thought it was alright. Im actuall playing song of caverns right now for my first playthrough so I dont have an oppinion on it yet. I didnt like thieves guild because running around in the tunnels was boring, and easy to get lost.

>>5704252
>the two talisman missions needlessly overextend the cathedral subplot (returning to the cathedral 4 missions after feels like ages and breaks the game's pace).

Im liking the game overall, but i think this is hurting my enjoymet somewhat. The gold missions as of right now seem weaker than the original game missions. Extending the game with weaker missions doesnt feel great.

Its also my fault because the main thing holding me up is the expert loot requirement on not mansion levels. I dont like running around the levels trying to find loot i missed.

>>5688031
>MGS has poor stealth

nice meme opinion

so, anon..
h-how is that fan mission of yours going? You haven't gave up on it, right? You master your dromed skills everyday to make the map as fun as possible, r-right?

>>5702434
>HITMAN 2
>The one game that betrays the Hitman mythos, abandoning its lore and butchering Diana and 47's characterization to the point where they dont seem like the same characters from the original 4 games
>"""greatest installments in it so far"""
I'll give you HITMAN 1 since that game was fantastic, but not H2. That game just shits over the entire established canon of the series with a shitty story full of retarded retcons that screws up 47 & Diana's characterization and relationship big time. Not even Absolution had a story so bad, at least absolution didnt completely fuck up with 47's origins as much as H2 did.

>>5703662
>thieves guild
not as bad as I remembered it but still a slog with the sewer shit.

>mage tower
it was alright, really easy even on expert until the fire tower, fuck the placement of the glasses, I looked everywhere for a switch and it was actually a book that was easier to miss on a shelf texture

>opera house mission
this one was nice actually

I felt more aggravated by the missions with the woodland creatures, fuck those, and fuck the overuse of spiders, they are really hard to hit with the sword

>>5704585
That's very yellow.

>>5694940
I loved them, and thought it was a good idea to have hubs in-between levels. Also, Calendra's Cistern was a popular fanmission in which you traversed back to the beginning in order to buy equipment, so I'll say that the criticism of open level design in Thief 3 is either limited or not thought through.

Here's my advice: Don't make the hub areas too small, and don't have loading screens in between. Also make it somewhat mandatory to use the level hubs, give them meaning and make them familiar to the player. Finding a level entrance on the hub map, for example. Make the buying screen in Thief 1-2 meaningful by letting the player fence stuff and visist different shopkeepers that sell different things at different rates. Thief 3 tried this but did it way too little. Make it characterful.

I'd like it if the home quarter vibe would be fleshed out in a more open level design of a Thief-like game. Have a home tavern you can call too, especially if your own safehouse is hot. Make the home somewhat customizable in that you can stash things there for emergencies like in the 4th mission of Thief 2. Here's the counterpoint though: don't overstack the player with too many resources. A lot of my Thief 3 playthroughs ended with me having 30,000 gold in cash and a full inventory of weapons and gadgets, because there was no balancing of equipment like the way Thief 1-2 handled it, i.e. giving you a completely new starting equipment and no mechanic for carrying over. So finetune the balancing between resources, carriable inventory and the number of items available for purchase.

>>5703662
>Thieves guild
Not as bad as people make it out to be. There's a few points in the mission where not paying attention will make you waste a lot of time backtracking or having no idea where to go. Using the compass and the (very detailed) map makes the things a lot easier, but it's still a rather dull mission overall and it definitely overstays its welcome. I'd still rank this higher than mage towers.
>Mage towers
I really liked the concept of the mission but it just failed in its execution. It's easily the most unfinished mission of the bunch. Huge square rooms with little to no decoration, vast areas completely devoid of any sort of gameplay (those hedge mazes are the worst) and guard placements and patrols are so simplistic and predictable that there's barely any challenge at all. The towers are pretty lame too, just bare bones platforming/puzzles sections that aren't particularly engaging and could have been a lot more interesting.
>Song of the cavers
The best one by far and one of my favorite missions in the series. It's huge but every area is distinctive enough that there wasn't a moment where I felt lost or thought the mission was dragging on. There's tons of enemies but their placements and patrol routes are sensible for the most part, and made for challenging and fun gameplay all the way through. Some places still felt rather unfinished (the basement in particular) but nowhere near as obvious as towers.

>>5704585
why is your screenshot all retarded

>>5704903
original screenshot was way too dark, so this is all I could do in photoshop to make it visible

>>5704656
Nobody gives a shit about the story. The new games have the best mechanics and the best level design.

>>5704585
Sure am! Work on interiors should start soon. and by soon I mean probably 4 months with my lazy ass

>>5689810
heh,

>>5688494

>tfw 45 fps on a shitty laptop without hd textures
I don't even understand why.

>>5705551
lower resolution

>>5684820
Thief 2 is much more focused on sneakery. Most missions I'd say are more about espionage/sabotage/intelligence gathering while picking up loot on the way rather than outright thievery, which does make up the first couple of levels. IMO it's the better game, but Thief 1 has a charm with its emphasis on the supernatural and sneaking around zombies and shit rather than sneaking around dudes and robots that Thief 2 doesn't quite match. They're both great but Thief 2 by virtue of being a sequel does edge out being the better game mechanically at the very least.