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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 2.94 MB, 584x476, tomb3.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5677547 No.5677547 [Reply] [Original]

Why was the Saturn so bad at 3D? Even the "competent" 3D games like Burning Rangers and Panzer Dragoon Zwei have frequent dips and only minimal polygon usage.

>> No.5677554
File: 3.00 MB, 720x540, zwei.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5677554

>>5677547
>Zwei
Meant Saga but that works. Look how in Zwei, VDP2 makes up the majority of the image and the environment is comprised entirely of 2D sprites. Whenever a Saturn game can't do this, it runs like shit.

>> No.5677624

>>5677547
What's the point of the webm? Tomb Raider looks better on Saturn than it does on PS1.

>> No.5677627
File: 2.94 MB, 1046x406, tomb4.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5677627

>>5677624
Really, go watch the Digital Foundry video on it and then say that with a straight face.

>> No.5677628

>>5677547
bad architecture, multiple processors using the same bus, developers didn't have the time to learn to program it let alone optimize it.
The End

>> No.5677636

>>5677628
so they put all the calculations in just one cpu, I'm surprised it can even hit 15 fps in the games you mentioned

>> No.5677643
File: 93 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5677643

>>5677627
Go actually play the game on the Saturn, and then say that with a straight face.

>> No.5677648
File: 274 KB, 1408x480, PSXSAT.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5677648

>>5677643
I own it nigger. It runs worse and looks uglier on Saturn.

>> No.5677649

>>5677547
>muh quadrilaterals
>devs: sure we're great at stuff we never do!

>> No.5677651
File: 2.93 MB, 584x476, Tomb Raider Saturn JUST 2.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5677651

>>5677643
I'm not the guy you're replying to but I am the guy who recorded these. The Saturn version is just way too dark. I could barely see where I was going half the time and the framerate really doesn't help.

>> No.5677674
File: 199 KB, 873x624, maxresdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5677674

>>5677651
I don't know what exactly you're recording this on and whether you're using an emulator, but the Saturn version isn't noticeably darker than the PS1. The Saturn also has a much better colour palette than the PS1 (where everything looks bland and washed-out), and a better draw distance so you can see things in the distance better.

>> No.5677683

>>5677554
Wow how does this look so smooth and high res? How can I play the game like this?

>> No.5677695

>>5677674
The Saturn version is for sure darker. The capture card I use is complete trash, but it gives a good enough approximation of how it looks on a TV to show brightness differences. Also you can see the brightness difference in emulators too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6ZzjgJuo54

>> No.5677702

>>5677695
What you're describing is simply the colour palette on Saturn being far better, whereas the Playstation washes everything into a dull grey.

>> No.5677714
File: 1.16 MB, 1282x645, Tomb raider.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5677714

>>5677702
Come on man, you have to be the biggest Sega fanboy in the world to pretend the left looks better than the right. Its at a lower resolution and framerate too.

>> No.5677726

>>5677714
b.. bu but soul and mystery, anon

>> No.5677758

tomb raider didnt deserve this.

>> No.5677768

Because it is a home console from 1994.

I mean, I don't really know what you are expecting. Playstation is also terrible at rendering 3d. It just looks slightly less terrible because it can easily do transparencies and doesn't use weird looking quads.

>> No.5677771

>>5677714
>I-I found one second in the video where the PS1 version looks better!
Congrats, Anon!

>> No.5677774

>>5677771
Feel free to show me a part where it looks better.

>> No.5677781

>>5677714
Left is more colorful also upscale both in your emulators

>> No.5677782

>>5677774
The rest of the 10 minutes, maybe? The Saturn version even looks better in the placeholder screenshot for the video, lmao

>> No.5677791

>>5677782
>The rest of the 10 minutes, maybe?
I have functioning eyes so I'm going to have to disagree.

>> No.5677807

cuz the saturn's 3d hardware is actually just 2d hardware that is really fast at doing complex 2d operations and the PS1 had a really forward thinking gpu design that ended up being really good because it was really simple and fast

>> No.5677828

>>5677643
PS1 version has vivid and nuanced 15bit color lighting, Saturn doesn't and is mostly limited by whatever textures/sprites are there.

>> No.5677847

>>5677807
>cuz the saturn's 3d hardware is actually just 2d hardware
I mean all "3D hardware" is "actually 2D" but who's counting

>> No.5677854

>>5677547
>Why was the Saturn so bad at 3D?
VDP1 was just a low performance chip. There’s really no better explaination. People that talk about the dual CPU setup are missing what hindered the majority of games. It overdraws like a bitch, certain operations can’t be mixed together, and even simple operations can require multiple pipeline cycles.

In the Saturn’s defence, the early PS1 consoles have a older GPU version that produces ugly banded textures and later PS1 consoles have a fixed version. Digital Foundry used the newer PS1 for their recordings.

>>5677674
>The Saturn also has a much better colour palette than the PS1
Aside from some differences in video output settings, not really sure how that is possible. Both consoles render the game in 15-bit color.

>>5677807
>the PS1 had a really forward thinking gpu design
Not really. It just followed the absolute minimum according to SGI principles while Saturn went on an upgrade-2D-hardware-to-3D route.