/vr/ - Retro Games

Playing Romancing Saga 2 for the first time, I'm having fun.

SnakeOil, an editor for SaGa Frontier, is here:
https://bitbucket.org/MysticLord/snakeoil/downloads/

Source code is here:
https://bitbucket.org/MysticLord/snakeoil/src

Readme.txt:
https://bitbucket.org/MysticLord/snakeoil/src/default/readme.txt

Waza, the SF data project is here (necessary to understand some of the editors, like the skill editor):
https://bitbucket.org/MysticLord/waza/src/default/

I ended up dropping RS2 at some point last year because I kept getting fucked by my party members not learning the skills I needed, and one of the races got wiped out because I couldn't finish some quest the way I wanted. Hopefully RS3 is less frustrating.

How’s the Vita port of RS2?

>>5661085
RS3 is a lot more lenient than 2, don't worry.
>>5661097
Best mobile version of the game.

What's the hardest aspect of SaGA Frontier? I'm going to start it tonight but I find the answer to that question tells you a lot about a game.

Memes aside, is RS1 a good game? I wasn't into saga games when I first tried, but I thought the game had a lot of variety, places to go, characters, etc.

>>5661112
>What's the hardest aspect of SaGA Frontier?
Frontier is very easy entry, there's a few traps like Asellus' infinite training loop or some parts of Riki's quest, but otherwise there's really nothing particular you should look out for if you've played previous games, outside of Abyss Bat I guess.
>>5661113
SNES or PS2 version?

>>5661136
Arcane and Rune quest lockouts are an issue, especially in Emelia's quest.

>>5661113
I loved RS1 (although I never BEAT Saruin, just got there a couple times), but for what it's worth, if you can handle the soundfont (some can't probably), you should do the WSC version.
Also maybe brush up on your runes, because SaGas are interaction heavy.

Minstrel Song was... neat, but missed the mark for me. It just lacked something, a certain je ne sais quois. For whatever reason I never got more than a few hours into it...

>>5661284
MS is very by the numbers in terms of setting and writing, especially coming from other SaGa games, it doesn't help that despite all the changes and extra lore bits it's still based on a 1991 game, which was also heavily inspired by Ultima V.
The ENG voice acting also doesn't do a great job at easing you into the game, a lot of the dialogues and lines are really phoned in, some are also outright bad, although I must say I do prefer ENG Saruin to JP Saruin.

RS3 is probably the easiest SaGa I've played

Though compared to other standard rpgs like FF, DQ, it's kind of hard

>>5661412
The GB games are a lot easier, but yeah, it's definitely one of the easiest together with Frontier, maybe a bit harder on virtue of having a final boss that you can power up, which Frontier lacks.
The remaster might change that though, I'm pretty interested, even if it's pretty low in my tier list.

Which SaGa has the best soundtrack, and why is it Frontier II?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPv2Ely79lI

>>5661428
Is there any other SaGA game like the GB ones where you pick your party and then you're off? I like the idea of choosing your party but some of the other games only let you keep them for the scenario which is super short.

>>5661453
What a swanky looking guy. I'll try the game just based off his design. Fingers crossed he's playable.

>>5661454
You mean like a party of generics?
No, the first two games are the only ones like that.
If you mean a game where you have a full party right of the bat and little to no prologue, Scarlet Grace.

>>5661453
The Frontier duo, Unlimited and Minstrel Song have most of my favorite tracks.
>>5661458
He's one of the protagonists, don't worry about that.

I want to get into these games, where's the best place? I have a hacked Vita so I have access to most of the series.

>>5661493
Start with the first Frontier, it's a good game for beginners.

Actually you know what, I'm real tired of repeating all this shit everytime, I'm gonna make one of those templates used for other franchises so every time somebody asks you can post it instead of writing down the same stuff all the time.

>>5661493
RS3 is also a good place to start, since it's one of the easier games, doesn't really have that many obscure mechanics, and unlike frontier, it's actually finished.

>>5661014
Likewise, I've just passed the opening arc.

>>5661043
we're on the way to Frontier romhacks bros...

>>5661085
Wait, why did you had to drop the game? Was it unwinnable or where you trying some challenge run to glimmer specific stuff?

>>5661626
I don't remember exactly what it was, but it had to do with a volcano or something and one the races ended up getting wiped out because I couldn't finish a quest, and I think I missed out on a class. I also missed out on a trophy and I was trying to for the platinum and didn't want to start over.

>>5660983
Are they going to change all the characters personalities into a scottish/welsh/italian/russian parody?

>>5661642
This isn't Dragon Quest.

is it just me or is just about every single male SaGa character a complete Chad

>>5661453
I like the designs in SF2 a lot. It seems to have the least Glam Rock inspired designs in the series.

>>5661740
I can't think of a single one in SF who isn't a total pimp except for maybe Riki

>>5661740
There's not a lot of weaklings of pussies, yeah.
Helps that the characters are almost always done by Tomomi, so pretty much anyone who isn't a comedic character or the rare weaker ones ends up looking pretty rad.
SG Leonard is especially worrying because he fits the chad meme almost perfectly.
>>5661750
Roberto and Gustaf are pretty fucking J-Rock, maybe not on the same level as Hector, but they've got the touch.
>>5661758
Silence is pretty feminine looking.

>>5661112
depends on which scenario you're at.

>Red: getting stuck in of the main bosses dungeons with no way out
>Blue: doing certain quests too early, like the shadow realm one
>Emelia: later on during the trinity base stuff. final boss can blindside the rather otherwise easy scenario
>Lute: getting to the final dungeon too early
>Asellus: getting stuck in a few different areas
>T260: not knowing party optimization for both Mecs and Humans
>Riki: several parts straight from the beginning of the game

Most of the scenarios aren't too hard to start off with but I would not do Asellus or Riki first. In general just keep an open mind about the non-linearity of the game which can sometimes throw you into situations you may not be ready for. be prepared to experiment.

>>5661453
Fucking love SF2 and Unlimited tracks. One day I hope that Kawazu holds his word about remaking and remastering all of his old games. I'd kill to play a next gen version of SF1, 2 and Unlimited

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USVgKQLYqSc

>>5661740
Depends on the game to be honest. SaGa has a lot of characters in general, some like SF1, SF2, Unlimited, RS3, etc have like 30+ playable characters per game. There's a lot of badasses among that group of course, but then there are just as many "everyday people/adventurer" types as well.

was this quest the biggest waste of time in the history of rpgs

>>5661764
Reminds me of Basch. I wonder how much influence Kawazu had in FFXII since he was the producer, that game was also full of Chads before upper management changed Vaan's personality.

>>5661776
the fact that arguably the hardest scenario had the least satisfying ending to this day makes me a bit angry

>>5661784
it should have been obvious from the beginning with how dire the elder makes the situation sound while everyone else on Margmel couldn't less of a crap

Shame the threads I make on /v/ for Scarlet Grace don't get any traction. The release of RS2 managed a minor surge in popularity for SaGa on the board, but I don't think a repeat will be possible. I even tried to get a SaGa thread going on /tg/ once a while back, to no avail.

>>5661776
It's pretty in line with the lummoxes being pretty airheaded, I personally like it a lot, but for other reasons, there's a good message in there.

>>5661810
You should wait until the release, I think RS3 can be a bigger hit than RS2 due to not being hard as balls (for zoomers) and having insane sprite art

>>5661810
/tg/ despises anything that isn't western and /v/ is too casual for the series.
Once it will be out later on this years I'm sure we'll be able to have some decent threads about it, the game's full of content and with the recent showing at the E3 the series is bound to get some attention.

>>5661812
How did you feel about Riki enthusiastically whoring Mei Ling out for a ring

>>5661819
Hot and bothered.

>>5661810
/v/ is for pure waifufaggotry and smash threads

>>5661819
What's going on with the cross on her bracelet in the illustration? A lot of Chinese Christians?

>>5661832
I think it's just a decoration tomomi put in there.
It's not like christianity even exists in Frontier.

>>5661816
Yea, I guess in my enthusiasm I forgot the game is still a ways off.

>>5661817
Maybe we're just seeing /tg/ at different times, but they seem pretty open to atypical things when I visit the board every now and then. And in theory SaGa SHOULD appeal to /tg/, at least on a mechanical level.

I'll talk to yall later, I need to take a shit.

The Lord ring gets tossed into the frozen wastes of Mosperiburg, though. Virgil's gonna be pissed.

>>5661836
>Yea, I guess in my enthusiasm I forgot the game is still a ways off.
Did RS3/Scarlet Grace even get an official release date?

does cafeteria food have distinct cafeteria taste?

>>5661836
>And in theory SaGa SHOULD appeal to /tg/, at least on a mechanical level.
It's very hard to talk with /tg/ about videogames that aren't inspired by western rulesets and mechanics wise there's only a bunch of people that are interested into dissecting a game's ruleset and analyzing the various mechanics at work, looking at the relations between systems and whatever else.
It's not impossible, but the board is very obtuse in a way and most people have a clear western bias when it comes to games.
SaGa being relatively unknown also doesn't help, but again, it should gain a bit of traction with the next releases, Scarlet's more explicit wargame-like presentation might also interest a lot of people on /tg/, and hopefully that means they will also try out Unlimited after it.
>>5661846
Virgil barely even leaves his palace and Muspelnibur is a frozen wasteland, as a high mystic he might even find it fun.

Is SaGa Fontier the FFVII of the SaGa series?

>>5661864
it kind of covers most of the best points of the series imo. takes in the races of SaGa 1 and 2, includes the five party combat and sparking system of RS2 and RS3, and introduces a brand new mechanic of comboing attacks. So yeah I can see it. I think SF2 would probably be somewhat comparable to FF8 as well.

>>5661864
Overhyped, but also not a bad game?
yeah it is.

>>5661864
Depends on what you mean by that.
It did come out right behind it and it is the most iconic game in the series, it's also overrated in the series' context, but I think the similarities end here.

the art is unbelievably girly

>>5661859
You should hit up RPGDL.com. They're a bunch of flaming faggots but they have ruleset reversing down.

>>5661849
One anon said they were shooting for a late 2019 release, but as I don't see anything official about that, take it with a grain of salt. I really hope its true though.

>>5661859
Unlimited was actually one of the subjects I touched upon along with SG, as well as how SaGa was an offshoot of FF which in turn took a lot of inspiration from DnD, and how Kawazu was a /tg/ enthusiast himself. Alas, no one was interested.

>>5661880
Almost like it was done by a woman...
hmmm...

>>5661880
You just need to find more of the artist's stuff.

>>5661892
some of those were redesigned for the Minstrel Song. Why?

>>5661887
>Almost like

>>5661895
All of those were redesigned for MS.
Every single character was redesigned, and we got new ones too.
>Why?
Probably because of the change in aesthetics and sensibility with time.
SNES RS1 feels very late 80's/early 90's because that's the time it came out in, Minstrel Song being a remake that would pull RS1 up to the 00's standards in terms of mechanics probably made Kawazu think a general visual redesign was in order.
At least that's how I see it, old Hawke was inspired by Blood the Pirate from Ribbon no Kishi while new Hawke was clearly inspired by Johnny Depp's Jack Sparrow, I guess that's the logic behind the general redesign, Galahad also used a FF's warrior sprite as base, which is why even in the art he does look like one, whereas in MS he's more original, don't ask me why Jamil got turned into some kind of elf though, that's beyond me.
>>5661896
Please keep your wojaks where they belong and stop getting triggered over nothing.

>>5660983
>Romancing SaGa 3
looks comfy OP, is it similar to Golden Sun ???

>>5661880
the RS2 emperor/mermaid one is one of my favorites of hers. i didnt like the ren/emelia pairing since they break up in canon anyways

>>5661907
>is it similar to Golden Sun ???
Completely different in any possible way.

>>5661909
What canon?

>>5661909
Ren and Emilia are consistently shows as a couple in all the side games.
There's no real "canon" in this series either.
>>5661914
He's probably referring the the short Fuse novel.

>>5661638
Playing SaGa games with that mindset only will cause you frustration. Forget about trophies. I personally missed the mermaid quest and I never got the wind race and it does not bother me. Roll with the punches. The thing is from Romancing SaGa and onward is that it is purposefully obtuse in where to find quests and how to complete them because anyone can complete the game, but what was the journey you took to complete it? You are going for more of a non-blind perfect play through, instead of a more organic and flawed one. Your experience will be more akin to a guide, where as someone that doesn't fret over perfection has made their own SaGa. Your own approaches to quests due to different options to complete some, or your ingenuity of utilizing the only items and skills you currently have available make these games.
>>5661783
I think Kawazu only reeled the game in and put it on an more strict schedule so it could actually get released. I don't think he had a major impact on how the characters came out or the games mechanics.
>>5661810
SaGa will always be niche in the west. This isn't Japan, people in the west have certain expectations on what a JRPG should be and the SaGa series often breaks that. Thus the "hardcore" JRPG demographic in the west will generally dislike the franchise. I'd like to be proven wrong with the series gaining traction but I don't see it in the west.
>>5661864
No. There are few JRPGs that could be considered that. Without thinking much I'd spitball Dragon Quest VIII and Persona 5. Not a lot of other series really have that Final Fantasy VII entry.
>>5661907
No way. For one it is significantly less wordy and the story unfolds with your exploration of towns with talking to people and dungeons rather than exposition. People mistake this for the game lacking a story.

>>5661934
Why are there always canon autists trying really hard to ruin open ended games and stories

>>5661783
I wonder how much influence XII had on Kawazu, since in some ways TLR felt very similar to XII aesthetically.

>>5661959
I'm genuinely interested on how Kawazu has kept his job over the years to be honest. And not in a negative way, but he's always done his own thing and his games have never been super popular in the west. I appreciate his games, much moreso than the FF series and other stuff that SE has released as of recent.

I got this in the mail

It's so huge, didn't think it'd have so much stuff

Have been watching the concept art for hours

>>5661945
I'd say canon autism flares up the most in series that are open ended, precisely because there's a lack of certainty to it all.
Still, there are some particulars that are more or less canonized either way, and some people tend to refer to the side materials as canon, it's the same for a lot of other games, even in stuff like Baldur's Gate for instance you'll see a lot of people arguing about the canon, it's normal.
>>5661959
That's a good question, Kawazu took a backseat as producer in that game, but even with Takai taking the brunt of the work, there definitely are some things in common that I think Kawazu personally pushed, like the more classic fantasy races and the theme of various nation states creating a complex webs of relations.
They're still pretty different games at their core though, even when it comes to the lore, FFXII is a classic Matsuno story about higher beings pulling the strings from behind the scenes, TLR is the story of a world abusing the power of alien artifacts that might or might not be higher beings and pissing them off.
The various narrative subthreads end up being pretty different too, FFXII is a radically more political story with a tragic background to it all, TLR is a classic SaGa ensemble of stories of different people living their own lives in a vast world and getting sucked in the turbulence of worldly affairs, if FFXII is Hamlet TLR is War and Peace.
>>5661979
Kawazu is the only active senior developer in the company and he's almost venerated by a lot of people, not just inside Squenix but in the whole japanese industry, bear in mind quite a few of the current generation devs, like Takahashi or Kimura, worked in his teams, and his games inspired a lot of people in the industry too, SaGa 1 alone was groundbreaking.
The man is the closest Japan has to a Richard Garriot or a Gary Gygax and he has balls of steel, even Wada knew he couldn't just fire him and get away with it.

>>5662002
Fuuuuck, I'm jelly.
This has every single artpiece by Tomomi, right?

>>5661979
Straight up did not matter most of the time. Final Fantasy I and II did well, same with starting the Gameboy SaGa games. Then RPGs just did not get released to the west often during the SNES era but the Romancing SaGa games were a hit in Japan. So with just that he had an excellent track record. Does not hurt for being one of the OGs as well.

>>5662008
Yes, related to SaGa at least. It has Scarlet Graces too, which I haven't played yet.

I will probably do playthroughs of every game while eyeing the book. Had never seen Minstrel Song or Unlimited's concept art either and it's insane honestly, especially Unlimited.

352 pages

I want to be a painter so I convinced myself to tighten the belt for a month and get this. Considering how hard watercolor is, I'm even more impressed now than when I first saw the RS3 cover as a kid

>>5662019
By the way if anyone wants it this is the cheapest I could find:
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEODAI-44975?s_ssid=e320ab5d0431905d83

>>5662003
>if FFXII is Hamlet TLR is War and Peace.

Fitting, since I plan on starting War and Peace soon and I consider TLR a personal favorite.

>>5662024
>6900yen

>>5662120
It is probably reasonable for a 350 page art book depending on its dimensions and paper quality.

>>5662145
For $63 I'd consider it, but the shipping costs would probably push it over the edge for me.

>>5661764
god, i loved leonard from what little i played of SG. looking forward to revisiting that one.

>>5662093
Well, it was just a general comparison in how the narrative is structured, SF2 is the actual War and Peace of the series if we want to make a more precise comparison.

It's just that SaGa games have this particular way of creating worlds that is generally uncommon in the genre, let alone the medium.
Just to go back at FFXII a bit, even though it isn't retro, there's no denying the game has a complex web of character relations, let alone nations and subplots with their own more or less complex interactions that end up forming a bigger picture.
However, it's also true that the game focuses a lot on a set of central events to the stories, a well defined set of instances that are related to the cast of playable characters which end up taking a central role in the story, Basch has his own reason to rebel against the empire, both he and Balthier have even family reasons on top of a more moral set of issues, same for Asche, who's driven by both revenge and what she feels as her own duty as a royal, even Van and Penelo fit in the whole game as much as a lot people would say otherwise, the game and the story is essentially their stage.
You get to play as a small, defined set of protagonists playing as the central figures in a grand adventure, you get to see their story and their own adventure, with everyone else but some key villains taking the rest of the stage, there's only six playable characters outside of the couple of temporary party members and those six heroes are what ends up defining the story, which you, as a player, have no control over.
The other games aren't different either, if anything, most of the them don't even bother creating a rich world with many big players, they're essentially character stories, which end up personal and intimate, but also self contained and very well defined defined adventures, almost fairy tales or modern epics if you like.
>>>

>>5662249
>>>
But when you take up a SaGa game it's different story.
Sure, you do have a main quest that acts as some kind of central theme, but how central is it really? And how often?
You can argue Saruin's revival is pretty big in RS1, but do any of the MCs outside of arguably Albert have any really personal beef with him? None of them do DIRECTLY, but they might do eventually by proxy, even outside of Elore's own scheming, and even so, you have eight "chosen" ones, none of which are a canonical hero, none of the events in RS1 are set in stone, this is already a big difference compared to the other kind of narrative.
Then you have a rich cast of secondary playable characters, all of which have their own self contained stories which end up telling you bits and pieces of a bigger story, which is the story of Mardias as world you get to inhabit, Saruin's looming threat and the final showdown is an inevitability, but despite being something that does connect a lot of dots together, it's almost never the main point of the story, or rather the stories.
Raphael and Constance's love story exists on its own, as does the story of Theodore's own ideas of knighthood, and how that changes thanks to not just Raphael, but your actions in the story.
Claudia's story is her own, it's not directly part of the big picture with Saruin but a story of Baphal Empire, which might or might not intertwine with the story of Grey the adventurer, or maybe Hawk's?
Wuhanji, might be an asshole, but what would happen to him if you let him live? Perhaps he can show another side of himself, and what would happen to Aisha if you never rescue her? Who are the Taralians?
Would you kill Galahad for the Ice Sword? What's the deal about the Ice Sword either way and how did such a weapon end up in Galahad's hands?
What about Sheira? And what about the gods?

What you end up with is not the story of characters who made history, but rather the history of worlds made up of many characters.

>>5662234
Leonard's story was unexpectedly wholesome.
I thought it would be like Lute's given how open his progression is, instead I got a really fun adventure with two cute dorks in love with each other, the ending was perhaps what cemented it as the best love story in the series for me, though Taria and Kahn ends up as serious competition.
Doing the quest with the baby in Gradion with these two was just adorable, though to be fair, all the MCs are adorable in this quest, especially Balmaint bumbling around on the world map.

What's a good starting point for SaGa if I want to be eased into the series's style and logic a little? I enjoyed what I played of Frontier a while ago before it fell into backlog hell, but after I got stuck at the start of Asellus's story because you have to ditch your party before going into town to do stuff behind their back, which makes perfect sense in-universe but ditches JRPG conventions of "assemble your party then progress", I've realised I'm probably the type of idiot who will get stuck easily if I'm not looking at things the right way.

Should I start with Minstrel Song, 2, or something else?

>>5662436
try Fronter 1 again and do either Emelia or Red's quests first. thats what i recommend to newcomers. Asellus isn't the most newbie friendly quest because you need to have knowledge of mechanics on how to progress in game.

>>5662453
Okay, thanks, I'll do that. I was enjoying Asellus's character a lot but it definitely felt like I was just dumped in assuming that I would know what to do.

>>5662436
SaGa Frontier is easier than Minstrel Song and RS2. If you want something even more straight forward and only have to worry about different races developing differently thus different character growth mechanics from other JRPGs then play Final Fantasy Legend I and II. They are short games, less than 20 hours each.

I cannot wait boys
I'm here twiddling my thumbs
just waiting

>>5661836
/tg/ only ever just like A Bard's Tale, Icewind Dale, or Baldur's Gate. There are dudes over there that denounce Planescape Torment, because it's not 1:1 DnD.

>>5661907
consider SaGa games as JRPG with a splash of roguelites

>>5662571
>roguelites
retard

>>5662816
Mystery Dungeon-likes. You know the drill.

>>5662479
Does FFL1 hold up or should I start with the DS remake of FFL2?

>>5662912
Start with the FFL2 remake if you're concerned about it, but I cannot comment on its length since I only played the original GB games. Though I believe there is the Wonder Swan English translation of FFL1 which updates the graphics, sorting some of the bugs, and allowing you to see what your monster will transform into upon meat consumption.

It is a fun game still, three races that develop differently, four person party, three lives per character, eight slot inventory that you can utilize depending on the race with weapon durability, and a few interesting worlds to explore.

I ended up playing the GB trilogy in reverse order and were my first three RPGs in general, and I personally did not find it a chore to jump to a more rough first pre 90's handheld JRPG.

>>5662967
>>5662912

The FFL2 remake adds more cutscenes and has a little more content in the form of extra mechanics and sidequests. It goes from 20 hours to 30, so it's still a short game. I find 2 to be the best of the original trilogy, the original GB game is still perfectly playable nowadays as well, should you wish to do so.

>>5661014
I just started Saga 2 as well and I'm finding it sort of boring. It seemed neat at first but it's started to feel repetitive already. Am I missing something? I haven't even killed the guy in Somor yet. This is my first saga game if that matters.

>>5663006
You mean the first hero at Somon? You haven't unlocked a lot of skills nor even scratched opening up the world map. I consider everything at the start you can do with Gerard as the intro of the game, near the end of his lifetime the game begins to open up a bit from branching east or south. You haven't even encountered enemies that you do need to either blind, stun, paralyze, put to sleep, or confuse yet just so you won't bleed LP every battle.

I'm sure I'm just an idiot but I can't find information on how the scenario system works in Frontier 1. After you finish a character what happens for the next character you choose, I think everything gets stronger but what does that refer to, all enemies, all the party members you leveled?

>>5660983
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE9m74Xhq5Q

>>5663006
You've barely scratched the surface, you're still in the "tutorial" part of the game and none of what you'll do until you get rid of Kujinshi is the main meat.
The game opens up after you're done with Gerald's generation, though to be fair, expert players can do a lot even during Gerald's second chapter, but that's not something a beginner can do, eventually you'll learn how to make the game even more open and flexible than it already is.
>>5663212
>>5663212
>After you finish a character what happens for the next character you choose
You get a minor starting stat boost and a few extra starting waza iirc, BR is reset so no, enemies don't get stronger, but the bonus you get is determined by the BR you had by the time you finished the previous run you used to start a NG+.

>>5662837
Still not correct.

I played RS3 and loved everything about it until I faced the first Abyss Gate guardian and he fucked my whole party in two turns. I was so frustrated and at a loss of what should I do to become stronger, so I never continued it.
Can’t wait for the official worldwide release. Maybe I became less of a brain let for this game.

>>5663289
You can play with us when it releases Anon, many people here already played the game and will help you out without spoilering the game or the experience too much.

>>5663167
>>5663225
Okay, I'll give it some more time. I already got wiped by a regular encounter, a mandrake kept putting my party to sleep and everyone else kept knocking out my guys one by one, mostly I've been finding traversal to be pretty tedious but I'll wait and see how it opens up.

I just started with RS2 and I like where this is going. Especially with how I made Gerard get help from the Avalon thieves' guild.

>>5663689
Plantoids do that to you, the good thing is they're usually pretty weak so it's easy to wipe them out with speedy characters before they can buttfuck you with spores/powder spreads.
High BR plantoids are another matter, but by then you should not have many problems and even if you do, you should be more worried about not getting massacred by tentacle attacks rather than mass shutdowns.
As far as traveling goes, that's mostly how it works for the Romancing games, given that you can fast travel mostly anywhere it shouldn't be too tedious for you, perhaps the more modern entries would suit you better.
I'm not sure you noticed, but you can also fast travel out of any hub area too with just a button press, saves a lot of time.
>>5663816
You can choose to not ask the thieves' guild for help, but it's a much harder route when it comes to the fortress in Viktor Canal.

>>5661493
Frontier 1 and 2 are a good entry point, Romancing SaGa 1's PS2 remake is also good, and SaGa 2: Treasure Legend (or however it was translated) on the DS is much more civilized than the gameboy original.

If you have a 3DS, Alliance Alive's combat system was done by the guy who did several of the SaGa games and is also worth playing.

Romancing SaGa 2 is one of the best but it's also one of the hardest, look forward to RS3 coming out in the near future.

>>5661938
>People mistake this for the game lacking a story.
To be fair, the story in SaGa games is very barebones, episodic, and little more than a framing device. It makes Shining games look elaborate.

>>5662473
Asellus' scenario is pretty much a boss rush, which is appropriate because statistically speaking she's the most powerful character in the game (if you ignore the Stasis bug) due to having access to both mystic abilities and human growth.

>>5664074
I disagree on that.
SaGa games (outside of the GB ones) have all pretty good stories with quite a lot of meat to them, the only difference with the average RPG is that they don't waste time with cutscenes and just throw you in the action.
Take the bad route in Cumberland, if it were done in a FF game you'd get
>A cutscene with your characters on the ship talking about nothing
>A cutscene with Saifried showing how he's a totally trustworthy guy
>A cutscene for the King dying in his bed
>A cutscene for Toma running away so you don't have to rub two braincells together to find him
>A cutscene for Saifried seizing the city
>A cutscene for Saifried finding Toma and putting him the dungeon, with Toma crying before a cut off
>A cutscene for Georg losing the battle and dying while asking himself WHY OH WHY weren't you there for him
>A cutscene for Sophia asking herself how did it all come to this and thinking about her brothers
>A cutscene with Toma dying in the dungeon
>A cutscene with Saifried stroking his figurative mustache for a plan well done, laughing lugubriously and gloating about how not even the Emperor of Avalon can stop him
>A cutscene of your team lamenting how they let it all happen
And so on.
People should really learn that pointless and longwinded exposition and prose don't make a better story, actually they don't make anything, they're there to waste your time showing what could have been either implied and understood or simply turn most of that stuff into gameplay.

>>5663689
What is it about traversal that is tedious to you? I don't see it too different from any other game in the genre.
>>5663816
Yeah, some quests do have a couple outcomes, even failure. I do enjoy that, especially the time orientated ones or if you tackles quests in a certain way and another one alters due to your actions.

/tg/ fag here

What would you guys want out of a SaGa tabletop RPG?

Sparking?
Life Points?
Weapon Durability?

>>5664281
I once asked /tg/ how SaGa styled leveling would work in a tabletop RPG. Someone recommended Burning Wheel, which I've been meaning to check out. A true SaGa tabletop RPG would be tops, though. Weird how Kawazu never tried for an official release of some kind.

>>5664183
>What is it about traversal that is tedious to you?
Hard to say, could be just that the combat is usually kind of boring since I'm so early, could be that I'm not used to overworld monsters in 2D games and such cramped areas, or it could be the mobile touch controls aren't very good

>>5664281
life points, a no-level system, sparking based off of "crisis levels" where a higher chance to TPK gives a slightly higher chance to spark something. something along the lines of character age influencing stats, i.e. older characters arent as good as they once were with weapons but still have it with magic. age decreases max LP as well, like in SF2. make the HP more like a "stamina" thing than actual health, like in Unlimited. races including humans, the mystics/espers (humanoid, more physically frail than humans, but have a higher knack and potential for magic arts), monsters, mecs, the demi-humans that are in some games like the sprites, mermaids, mole dudes, salamanders, etc. a cyborg (half mec/human) and a mutant (half human/monster, might be redundant with the demi humans) would be cool to have as well. like in SF2 and Unlimited, being able to 'draw magic' from the environment or weapons would be ideal, and being in certain areas such as a desert would make it easier to draw magic from those respective elements. upon completion of adventures, the players would roll or be assigned by DM certain skills or negatives, and in game there could be some kind of "karma system" of sorts where you can obtain points and either boost those skills, remove the negative skills, etc.

Just some ideas to throw around but i have no idea how viable or easy to homebrew any of that would be. For some of my friends who were used to 5E and crutched on full rests and stuff, i homebrewed a very basic LP system where characters could use it to restore HP if needed, to 'heighten' attacks or spells at the cost of it, and other various stuff, which they seemed okay with when i brought it to Pathfinder.

>>5664281
>What would you guys want out of a SaGa tabletop RPG?
everything
But no really, just turn Unlimited into tabletop, it's the perfect, streamlined SaGa system for actual tabletop play, handling things like Romancing formations would be way too longwinded for instance, Unlimited keeps the positional element while streamlining the system for ease of play.
Just add the classic racial system on top if all with the needed tweaking for making it work well with panels and you're gold, you've got a perfect basis you can then work on and add more stuff like the deadlock mechanics from TLR or the pantheon systems introduced from MS onwards.
>>5664292
>Weird how Kawazu never tried for an official release of some kind.
I guess it would be hard to market in Japan and given how Square never published board games he probably thought it would have been a pain to work with a third party, handling licenses and all that.
>>5664302
>Spoiler
Guess we found your problem.

>>5664292
Ha, I may have been the one to recommend Burning Wheel.

I've played quite a lot of some BW derivatives like Song of Swords & Riddle of Steel, which are both medieval combat simulation games based heavily on Burning Wheel and tote a high lethality as a selling point. They're classless systems that eschew the usual RPG mechanics in favor for a more character driven experience while also letting the player steer the character in whatever direction they want. SaGa does this by having characters grow according to their actions and doesn't do anything to contain where you might take the character.
Burning Wheel does this by making your Character's personal goals directly tied to their ability to progress mechanically. I can give an example if you'd like but I'll have to think of one first.

Legends of the Wulin is also a good one that could be quite fitting for SaGa if you did some retooling of the existing mechanics. The good news is that you'd probably have to do that anyway because the book is famously a compost heap of good RPG ideas that aren't very well organized and everyone has to house rule a little bit to play.

>>5664334
Virtually anything could go into tabletop so there's nothing I'd say couldn't make it in or be homebrewed to work one way or another. 4e & 5e both have a Life Point-esque mechanic in healing surges & hit dice. You can pay off an HD to recover 1dX of your hp based on your class.
I think a generation spanning game would be interesting but you'd have to make it the focus of the story to include it and there'd have to be some sort of resource to attribute players with what they do with their lives while the spotlight isn't on them during long time skips.

>>5664340
>just turn Unlimited into tabletop
I do like the hexagon character map thing

>>5664281
I'd want to preserve the races different progression systems, kind of like how Monte Cook WoD has different systems per race.

It'd be nice to see sparking in some form as long as the flavor and theme is there I think the mechanic behind it can be anything.

Lastly I'd want to see it facilitate an open-ended story as much as possible. I get that it's 99% in the GM's hands but anything the system can do to promote open-endedness would be good.

>>5664416
It is mostly up to a DM/GM/Seneschal on where the story goes but a system usually encourages a setting and a tone to follow.
The whole point of a tabletop is open endedness

Doing all those cool what if moments you can't get in Vidya

>>5664416
>I'd want to preserve the races different progression systems
Wouldn't be hard in theory, especially if you end up using Unlimited as a base.
Humans and Espers get to use both their standard panel systems but Espers get their own special Esper panels, you could make it so for instance, that Espers can choose to spend three points to learn spells from a magic tablet instantly instead of needing to cast spells to learn like humans, base spells would cost one point, advanced would cost two or three while all forbidden cost three.
Youma/Mystics don't get stat ups with panels but can choose to absorb a monster and get one ability as a panel, making a line or triangle combo panel with your mystic weapons that grants you massive combo stat bonuses depending on its composition.
Mechs still get their stats from their equipment but would need to equip different panel templates that grant them innate panel learning chances for mech abilities, while downloading data from defeated mechs grants them more unique mech panels to make up for what their chosen template can generate innately.

And this is just throwing some ideas around, there's really no limits to how inventive you can get.

>>5664340
>I guess it would be hard to market in Japan and given how Square never published board games he probably thought it would have been a pain to work with a third party, handling licenses and all that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't there been SaGa theatre and radio productions and whatnot? Surely getting a tabletop RPG published would take considerably less work? Half the legwork is already done with the games themselves.

>>5664483
>Half the leg work
Who knows what ruleset Kawazu would put into place.

>>5664483
>Surely getting a tabletop RPG published would take considerably less work?
The problem is Japan doesn't really have an active or big tabletop scene.
The theater plays are more accessible for most of the fanbase there and were also an occasion for fans to have a chat with Kawazu, Ito and whoever else about the games, they were social events, just like the diner weeks, or the SaGa museum exposition.
>>5664494
IMAGINE

>>5664504
>The problem is Japan doesn't really have an active or big tabletop scene

Yea but this is one of the most senior members of the company who still maintains an active role on development teams. If Square Enix can waste money on promotional gimmick drinks and switching office locations because a witch doctor advised them to, they can spare the $100 needed to print a few books and take a loss when only 50 are sold.

>>5664587
You are absolutely right, the problem is neither of us are witch doctors, that's where it all went wrong.

Is RS2 on the vita worth the $18 price tag or do you all just emulate?

>>5664686
Worth is entirely subjective, and you are asking this in a thread dedicated to a series that doesn't get enough sales in the west. You're free to emulate but most fans would encourage you to buy whenever possible, even if you wait for it to go on sale for $.99.

>>5664686
I'd say it is if you want it portable, the Vita can also play a lot of other SaGa games and the RS3 remaster is coming out later, in that sense it's second only to your PC when it comes to that, it's nice to have a lot of stuff in one place.
>>5664693 also makes a good point.

>>5664686
But to answer your question in earnest, I'd say yes its worth $18. I bought it at full price on release on Steam (the only game I've done that for), and I definitely got my money's worth out of it.

>>5664719
>>5664701
>>5664693
Thanks, think that convinced me. Ive been so bored with jarpigs for the past few years maybe a SaGa game can spark my interest again

>>5664787
I hope it does! you'd be surprised. all of the games are quite unique in their own way so if RS2 isnt your thing (and desu i think its great but probably my least favorite in the saga series), feel free to try the others.

the only downside is if you get hooked on the saga games, theres nothing really else thats out there that can sate your hunger for a game thats in the similar vein.

>>5664787
I'm sure RS2 will end up surprising you quite a bit, especially if you're new to the series.
Mind that it's a lot more complex and richer than it appears and doesn't hold your hand, so if you happen to have any doubts of questions drop by and ask, we'll make sure to help you without ruining the adventure for you.
RS2 is a very open and carefully crafted game, with a lot of options, depth and a surprising amount of player input all around, there's a lot of content and a lot of ways to complete quests, some of which are not immediately evident, the fact that it also doesn't force you to proceed in a definite way and instead gives you the choice to play however you like will make it great for further replays, especially to see where a different decision will lead you.

I hope you enjoy it as much as most of us here do, and if you're new to it all, I hope it will make you play the rest of the series as well.

>>5664719
are you me

after playing the android version I felt I had to pay for it, made a steam just to buy it, full price

>>5664686
>emulate
isn't the pc version a port?

>>5660983
I look forward to the rom dump. I'm surprised only Romancing Saga 1 got a fan translation that actually got finished. Now that 3 is getting an official one, 2 needs to get finished.

>>5665625
>2 needs to get finished.
Dude
Are you from five years ago?

I just got Romancing Saga 2, and I have no idea what I’m doing. First two dungeons weren’t that bad, but these fucking doppelgangers in the chests on the third area are pushing my shit in. I try double cutting with Leon, casting fire with Gerard, and all the strongest attacks I got but he just HP absorbs my heroes. Am I supposed to just skip these chests for now?

>>5666174
>Am I supposed to just skip these chests for now?
You can beat them if you want, but it's a tough fight, mostly because they hit real hard and Mad Biter shutting down your physical attacks on top of dealing massive damage is hard to deal with.
They're just a basic reminder to always keep your guard up and pretty much the only thing that is actually dangerous in the prologue, you'll see a lot nastier shit than that right after you're done with the prologue, I assure you.

I wouldn't waste too much time on them though, unless you want to beat them up with your team, which is admittedly a good challenge and can teach you a thing or two.

>>5666191
>I wouldn't waste too much time on them though, unless you want to beat them up with your team, which is admittedly a good challenge and can teach you a thing or two.
Are they vulnerable to stun? That's the only thing I don't think I have tried. I just don't see a strategy to beating them with what I got besides hoping he doesn't HP absorb Leon so I can at least double cut him to negate the healing he does from absorbing someone else.

>>5665625
>2 needs to get finished.
Hello time traveler.

>>5666198
Iirc anything that isn't one of the Seven or a bunch of really rare enemies can be stunned.
Didn't you get your Zweihander on James? That ups his damage output a fair bit and you have good chances of learning some new stuff on those things.

>>5666214
>Didn't you get your Zweihander on James?
Don't know what that is yet, so I guess not. Just tried to fight the doppelganger for a third time to test out stun using knee split with Bear and Leon. 4 out of the 5 attempts missed, and the one attempt that did land did not stun him. Doesn't help that Mad Biter inflicts confuse so whoever is hit with that cannot use techs. I'm just going to keep going and hope as my options open up in battle things will get better.

>>5666198
>I just don't see a strategy to beating them

>>5666237
>Don't know what that is yet, so I guess not
It's the sword you get in the goblin lair you clear out with Leon, don't tell me you missed it.
>>5666251
Based and Bearpilled

>>5666253
>It's the sword you get in the goblin lair you clear out with Leon, don't tell me you missed it.
Okay I did have that equipped, and ended up fighting another one since half the chest in the area seem to be doppelgangers. James misses most of his attacks, but I do a lot of damage. Then like every other time right when it seems that I am going to win, he just starts HP absorbing my dudes. Leon has like 121 hp, and that's quite a bit of health for this guy.

>>5666263
I think there's three doppelgangers in total.
Either way, you're going to go back to the mansion another time for reasons, so you can leave those back for later, do not forget to check the fireplaces or you'll miss up on something really good, most people do so I'm taking the liberty of spoilering this bit for you since it's potentially a disadvantage to miss this by the end of the game, and you can't go back to the mansion after the second time.

Oh and another thing, later on in the game you'll end up getting the Lob Omen, you can use Mad Biter yourself with that equipped, just so you know, it's pretty handy.

>>5666198
There is some sense in Romancing SaGa 2, if it doesn't have feet then chances are it cannot be stunned. A lot of stun moves are leg sweep attacks.

Is it just me or does the RS3 remaster look much better than 2's? 2's has pretty bad art mismatch between the tilesets and sprites, and the game doesn't scroll smoothly. Not complaining too much since RS2 remaster at least uses the original sprites and even improves the bosses.

Looks like with 3 they tried to make the sprites and backgrounds match. Kind of gives me hope for Squaresoft remasters. The less said about those Final Fantasy mobile games a few years back, the better.

>>5666263
Make it out of the mansion with the Somon Ring (may vary based on translation?), it gives resist to charm and is one of few items to do so which makes it quite important. I'd highly suggest you make sure to grab it.

Other than being tough, I don't remember the doppels doing or dropping anything. I think you can safely skip them if you feel.

>>5666592
>Kind of gives me hope for Squaresoft remasters

Don't do that to yourself.

>>5666610
I'm probably deluded by the fact that RS2 on the Super Famicom doesn't have good tilesets or battle arena graphics to begin with.

But the fact that they didn't fuck up the sprites was a huge step up, and RS3 looks to be much better overall in terms of presentation.

>>5666592
RS2 was just a quick job to garner more interest in the series and it was amazing it even got out of Japan. Kawazu takes more care over SaGa than Square does over their other IPs so you won't get something like FFV or FFIV mobile. They probably just got more money and leeway after RS2 remaster to redo RS3 from the ground up visually. That is why it has been taking longer to come out as well.

>>5666620
I meant FFV or FFVI mobile.

>>5666620
>>5666626
Still pains me that V got butchered the way it did, and that for all intents and purposes the remaster is the new "official" version of it from this point on. Basically ensured V would continue to languish in obscurity even more than it already has.

https://www.rpgsite.net/interview/8627-saga-series-interview-at-e3-2019-we-chat-with-akitsohi-kawazu-and-other-saga-leads-about-scarlet-grace-localization-and-more

>>5666592
>Is it just me or does the RS3 remaster look much better than 2's
It's literally the same kind of remaster, made by the same people on the same engine, the only difference seen so far is that some battle effects have been redone too, and the SFX are different.
Perhaps you're having a different impression due to how RS3's backgrounds were actually good looking from the start, whereas RS2's backgrounds were pretty low quality and nondescriptive, which makes the remaster look a bit too "high quality" at times, but rest assured, it was a nearly perfect remaster of the original backgrounds all the same.
As far as sprites and mixels go, we don't know yet, one can only assume that given the longer dev times for 3 and perhaps a bigger budget they took their time to really polish the visuals, one thing I kind of noticed is how pixely everything looks compared to the more smoother RS2 backgrounds, which helps the original sprite arts for the characters blend better, or maybe that's just my impression.
>The less said about those Final Fantasy mobile games a few years back
Those were just a piss poor effort commissioned by a bunch of bigwigs who wanted to make a quick buck on brand name, as it always happens with FF.
Kawazu might not by infallible and he certainly did lack the funds, but he does care about his stuff, and let's not forget Ichikawa's efforts too on that, bless him.

>>5666593
They can drop a Stardust Robe, which is good gear for a mage in the early game but not worth going out of your way for it.

>>5666637
>Sometimes a player might stop playing a game because they find it too difficult. But in other cases, players might find a game too simpleand stop playing out of boredom. I would rather lean towards the former, where players are more likely to quit because they find a game too difficult rather than quit because a game is too simple.
Unlimited Saga 2 confirmed.

>>5666665
Kawazu has the biggest fucking brain

>>5666665
Based

>>5666665
I would personally love it if we got a sequel to USaga. That game was a real joy to figure out, and the world building was great. Get Hamauzu back on the tracks and I'd be sold. (Make it even tougher than the first one please)

>>5666654
The worst part about the mobile FF games? FF: Record Keeper's visuals are excellent, if they used those guys for the FF remakes they would've been hailed as the definitive versions instead of... I dunno what they fuck they did, its like they opened the sprite sheet in coreldraw and clicked "quick trace".

>>5666664
Ah, okay. I seem to remember mage-y gear being in ample enough supply because I'd never want more than one full caster; at worst I might put a piece of mage gear on someone else if a situation calls for more magic.

>>5666697
Kawazu doesn't do sequels, it would be hard to match such a game anyway, at that point I'd rather have a rerelease with a massive expansion pack that covers another region of the same world, as the setting was pretty self contained, wouldn't be hard to make given the game's engine and design.

I'm pretty content with the direction the series has taken, if I were him I'd keep going further on the tabletop side of things, integrate Unlimited's core systems into Scarlet's more expansive dynamic scenario based progression, put back Unlimited's dungeon crawling model for dungeons while keeping Scarlet's overworld exploration for the main meat of the game's events, and of course keep the massive cast, 80 different characters are just great, even with the unique+semigeneric model.
Bonus points for using the 2D sprites in 3D environment visuals like Unlimited.

One thing that worries me is the high likelihood that Scarlet Grace won't get a physical release for PS4 and/or Switch.

>>5661113
RS1 is dogshit

You fumble through the poorly designed overworld talking to every NPC desperately trying to trigger story events that glitch out half the time, dungeons consist of a maddening quantity of mobs, all of which are dispatched by spamming your highest damage attack. Dungeons take HOURS of mind numbing spam and repetition. Every boss in the game is piss easy besides Saruin, who is only beatable if you train healing magic, which at no prior point in the game was necessary or even helpful.

It has some pretty cool ideas however, like the free form quest system progressing the world story and mob power level alongside you, but the actual act of playing the game is very boring and dull. Also the story is bare bones, the music is okay but most of the time you just hear your character theme on a loop, and the visuals are bland and generic.

>>5666783
Might be a possibility
>>5666864
>Every boss in the game is piss easy besides Saruin, who is only beatable if you train healing magic
You can just be a bitch and instakill him with Tiny Feather.

>>5660983
Is this shit going to be on PC?

>>5667000
It's right there in the trailer.

>>5667000
Steam my nigga.

Also can someone dump Kobayashi's art book? Or is it still new?

>>5667004
You have to ask the anon who bought the book to scan it.

>>5667009
I'd have to break it, so no

Also the pages are bigger than my scanner, too. Book is HUGE

I don't think it has any original art though, it's a compilation of every concept art Tomomi's done for RS onwards

Is unlimited really as crazy as its reputation? I love the music and the art, but most people seem turned off by not having a character to steer through a 3D environment

>>5667473
Just pirate it and see, bruh.

>>5660983

is romancing saga on the ps2 any good?

>>5667496
It's great

>>5667473
>Is unlimited really as crazy as its reputation?
It's Kawazu leaving humanity behind.
Just to give you some bits and pieces
>Everyone has LITERALLY unlimited HP, you don't die when your HP reaches 0, nor do the enemies
>You can forge a lump of steel with a feather and get a sword out of it
>Your martial arts change depending on your character's weight
>You get ZERO growth whatsoever until you complete a quest
>Panels can let you do all kinds of shit from schrodinger tier reality bending by changing the content of a chest before you open to convince merchants you're a big deal by buying things at a higher cost, evoke familiars to cast magic for you or create magic barriers that prevent enemies from touching you
>All quests outside of your main quest are on a turn timer
>One of the MCs has a recurring boss battle gauntlet occuring on a REAL TIME base in a turn based game, like Trebor's ghost in Wizardry IV
>All your equipment gets abilities based on the materials they're made of and their weight, meaning you can only use certain skills depending on the nature of the items or how you forge them
>All characters have their own personal bosses, Frontier style
>The game records literally everything you do before assigning you new panels, including how many chests you open
>Your characters can literally develop phobias as ACTIVE SKILLS if they get buttblasted hard enough by certain enemies, and those phobias have actual effects, you can also do entire builds around phobia panels
>Conversely, if they feel bad for killing too many things they can make vows of pacifism or refuse to use certain weapons
>Every environment has not just an innate element attribute, but even environmetal attribute, such as moist, damp or dry environment, and all of these are parts of functional navigation mechanics
And this is just a tiny bit of a much bigger picture

>>5667482
seconding this. it runs extremely well via emulation

>>5667527
Shit, i gotta try this now

Does any other game come close to this madness?

>>5667538
No, it's peak Kawazu.
MS comes close but lacks a lot of mechanics or streamlines previously introduced ones like forging, on the other hand it also introduces a good amount of new mechanics and still retains a lot of stuff from Unlimited, like navigation/stealth/negotiation skills but it's still not on the same level of madness.

Unlimited is its own thing, you won't find anything like it, and like the name implies, Kawazu showed a glimpse of his powerlevel with it, it's a massive casual filter even for the average SaGa fan.

>>5667538
Tabletop games maybe

Videogame related I don't think so

>>5667538
I remember I was trying to open a locked and trapped chest in a room. I think I rolled a critical failure on disarming or forcing it open and it shot spikes at me, poisoned me, exploded, a gel mimic came out, then ceiling spikes fell down once I got out of battle.

>>5667496
Excellent remake. It takes the base game and puts in tons of mechanical that came after the original was made. Be wary, you have to wrest the adventure from the game, it isn't handed to you. It is common to feel lost.

By the way, Unlimited speedruns are like really, really fast. 2 hours in I porbably was just fumbling with the menues and exploring the second dungeon

>>5667825
Yeah I could probably do a full playthrough of Judy's scenario in like 1.5-2hr

are there any SaGa guidebooks that are actually helpful? I heard they're all misleading

Dude RS2 is bullshit. I'm skipping to RS3.

>>5665823
https://www.romhacking.net/translations/412/

>version 0.05c

That doesn't look done to me...some fucking windows port that needs 4 gigs of ram doesn't count. I want a fully translated SNES rom...so unless someone can rom dump that port, then I'm still waiting.

>>5668181
Lol, what happened?

>>5668275
>4 gigs of ram
the specs on Steam are nonsense

I love SaGa Frontier but I just can't get into any of the other games. Am I weird?

>>5668324
Not even Final Fantasy Legend I and II?

>>5668314
It's still 1.4 gigs for a SNES game and I don't understand why.

>>5668314
Also I don't have a 64bit OS, which it says it requires, so again, this SNES game requires a modern PC and if I had one of those, I wouldn't be emulating SNES games on it, now would I?

>>5667910
The official guidebooks are the only ones you can go by, the various third party guides that used to come out in the past, not so much, and most of the FAQ online that aren't the usual two or three mechanical compendiums are often even worse.
>>5668324
Not really, SaGa games being so different from one another kind of do that to some people.
There's even people who like Unlimited but ignor the rest of the series, it happens.

Rs2 is such a good fucking game. I think it might be my favorite retro game.

>>5668429
Uncompressed textures and audio.
>>5668431
RS2 is literally on any gaming platform outside of the 3DS, so even if you somehow don't have a PC able to run it, you shouldn't have problems.
I wouldn't count on Gideon to ever release his patch either way, pretty sure he tacitly abandoned the project once the game was announced for the west, same for the RS3 patch.

>>5668910
Do you mean mechanically or would you recommend the story? I've only played a couple games from the series and I've always found a lack of story to be the main drawback.

>>5669018
If you don't like how other SaGa games handle the narrative you won't like RS2, it's essentially the same kind of minimalistic, fragmented narrative.
The only game you might enjoy if you want something more orthodox is SaGa Frontier 2, and even there, do not expect much of a deviation from the usual formula, it's just more cinematic compared to the rest of the series sans TLR or Scarlet.

>>5669018
Honestly, both. While the overall story is pretty light, it gives you just enough lore and world building to keep things interesting. Your party is basically a constantly rotating cast of generics, but theyre still pretty charming and individual. But I do love how all the quests you do are really organic and feel like you're discovering them. It's kind of hard to describe.
Mechanics wise, it's masterwork. Everything feeds back into the core concept of the game, which is characters inheriting the power of their ancestors and building your kingdom. Building new facilities, annexing parts of the world map, getting new classes of ally by completing quests, it just rules. If you've ever found yourself thinking "JRPGs are boring I only care about the story," I think this is probably the one that can change your mind.
I give Squaresoft's Romancing SaGa 2 a ten.... out of ten.

Would you say Romancing SaGa 2 was completely finished at release?

Most of the entries were rushed and are lacking content like SaGa Frontier 1 and 2, Romancing SaGa 1 and 3, and so on

Is SaGa Frontier really the best starting point for newcomers? I'm thinking it might let the noob grinding unpunished, leading to bad habits down the road.

>>5669747
>Would you say Romancing SaGa 2 was completely finished at release?
Yes

>Most of the entries were rushed and are lacking content like SaGa Frontier 1 and 2, Romancing SaGa 1 and 3, and so on
Only RS1 and SF1 were rushed. What missing content are you referring to in RS3 and SF2?

>>5669803
I personally believe that RS 3 is a better starting, but only because I feel it's the most basic bitch saga game.

>>5669814
There's some quests that were chopped off in RS3 like Tatyana or Shonen's

SF2 is missing large chunks of story and info but maybe that was intended

>>5669747
SF1 has stuff that had to be cut, but I wouldn't call it lacking in content at all.

>>5669871
All games have mechanics and content cut due to time constraints.

>>5669747
>Would you say Romancing SaGa 2 was completely finished at release?
Kawazu said RS2 is fine as it is and there's nothing more they wanted to add.
>Most of the entries were rushed and are lacking content
Outside of RS1 and Frontier 1, you could say the same of 99% of the games in the industry.
RS3 is fine and outside of the famed questline with Tatyana there's not a lot I see missing, Frontier 2 is also a pretty complete game.

And to be frank, I'm really tired of this meme of SaGa games being somehow incomplete or unfinished because one or two quests got cut due to time constraints like literally every game out there, I wish people would stop parroting this shit, especially when other Square games are actually very guilty of that and people pretend they're not.
>>5669840
RS3 is far from being a basic bitch game, it's just horribly unbalanced, exactly like Frontier.

>>5662002

>NEXT automatically plays in your head when you see this.

>>5670402
had to google it but it's very fitting

there are no answers only choices

>>5669871
>SF2 is missing large chunks of story and info but maybe that was intended
Most of the stuff in the novel was made up for that specific material, if the perfect works are anything to go by, there were a few extra locations like Carnak or Serayburg that ultimately never got made at all, perhaps they didn't really know what to do with those, iirc they aren't even mentioned in the novel.

Now, I have no doubts that a possible remake will try to integrate some of the stuff from the novel or something completely new, but the original game as it is as very little things that were not realized due to lack of time or other problems, it would be like saying TLR is half the game it's supposed to be because in the very early stages of development they wanted to have two main campaigns.
You can't pretend that all the "would have beens" count as cut material and make the game incomplete, we're not talking about Molyneux here, come on.

>>5664103
>This post.
This is what keeps me off from many PS games, eventually locking me away from newer consoles.
The jump from cartridge to CD lets you storage many times the amount of data you originally could; the limitations you had for some games are nonexistant now. And you decide to fill it to the brim with prerendered cutscenes.

>tfw not high IQ enough for SaGa series

>>5671348
Your first game will always be tough, but it's not really a matter of having a galaxy brain, it's just a different mindset from what you're probably used to, it's all about adapting really, at some point down the line you'll find out how you're subconsciously not caring about a lot of stuff because you've implicitly learned how to work with the main meat of the games, all complex games are like that, even Dwarf Fortress.

>>5671348
You and me both. I will never understand how people just instinctively know where to go whilst I'm spending hours upon hours traveling the world and talking to the same people.

I know it's not technically /vr/, but how does the last remnant compare to the other SaGa games? It's the only one I've tried so far and I loved it.

>>5671453
I only played the 360 version years ago, but I liked it enough to get all the achievements. RS2 is the only other SaGa game I played, was too hard/frustrating for me to finish. I'm looking forward to RS3 and Scarlet Grace though.

>>5670036
>RS3 is far from being a basic bitch game, it's just horribly unbalanced, exactly like Frontier.

I don't know if basic bitch was the best term to use, but it is the most normie friendly.

>>5671453
>but how does the last remnant compare to the other SaGa games?
It's different, as usual.
Just to give you a quick list of what I find good or bad
>The Good
-Best 3D graphics in the series so far
-Frontier like UI and world structure
-Very nice world design
-Union system is good if you liked RS3's commander mode
-18 characters in five different groups are fun to manage
-lots of new stuff to learn
-lots of content
-Can capture monsters to sell for money or dissect for components
-Nice "independent characters" mechanic
-All unique characters have their own small story arcs, which is unique in the series and very well done
-Lots of nice references
-Nice boss design
-Very cool main antagonist
-Amazing music as always, Sekito is pretty refreshing too
-Full dual language support on PC
-Some kino moments
-Good level of challenge overall, nice learning curve
-Nice positioning/movement mechanics unique in the series
>The Bad
-Game is very linear
-Rush is a horrible MC, the worst in the series
-BR being just a stat boost is boring
-Guild quests are MMO filler tier of bad, this isn't what the series is about
-Rare hunts are a horribly flawed concept all around, especially coming from the RS3 original design
-Magazines that lock component drops that are locked behind guild quests are a terrible idea
-Union mechanics are not as complex as the original RS3 design for many things
-Character growth is too streamlined
-Very little replay value as outside of a minor "bad route" that changes very little you've got no player input on how your campaign progresses
-Very little enemy variety
-Character arcs use the dumbest possible mechanic to trigger, that is entering a town 4 times to trigger the next chapter
-Crafting is even more simplified than MS, which is boring
-Weapong arts/unique arts in the "limit break" format are something that as flashy as it might be has no place in the series
-Dungeons are very low effort outside of a few exceptions
-Too many fucking caves

Tell me about cube, why is the joker looking for it?

>>5671987
i forgot exactly but its in the complete works as some kind of mcguffin that is able to threaten entire regions iirc.

>>5671987
>Tell me about cube
It's the main power source that was once in the HQ ship, the remains you find in Shingrow.
>why is the joker looking for it?
Cube's supposed power is enough for anyone to want it, there's no specifics but given how even Trinity is after it and how, in theory RB3 is powered by the same source, it's easy to see why everyone's scrambling for it.
Joker's precise motives remain a mystery, but it's probably something like world domination.

>>5671313
Yuji Horii had the right idea with DQVII.

are all the SaGa games completely separate from one another?

>>5672324
Yes

>>5672324
Yep, not a single sequel.

>>5671360
Getting lost and not knowing what to do is standard, I would not be surprised it applies to all skill levels when going in blind.

>>5673276
I wonder, has anybody played the game in Japanese? Is it equally obtuse and is the narrative structure as loose or did that all come from the translations.

Are there big penalties for all the people you lose in RS2?

>>5669017
It's out on "modern" gaming platforms, not "any" platform...I've got a PS3 and 360...if I had the money for a PS4 I'd also have a better PC than some laptop from 2007.

eh

>>5673352
shit stainer

>>5673290
Outside of a lot of wrong names and quite a few horribly worded parts that lose a lot of the nuances or style of the original, the narrative is still very loose, though a lot of it does make sense as you begin to understand that Kawazu essentially writes like a (much) less angry Tomino.

The trick is that, exactly like Tomino, you're shown the game's reality and world not as a spectator, but as a participant.
That's the reason why things like flashbacks, cuts to events outside of what the playable character is experiencing or the thoughts of any character outside the playable character are next to non existent in the series, the narrative is fundamentally mimetic instead of diegetic, which is what makes it so obtuse to most people.
I believe the games with the most straightforward and easily digestible narrative up to now are SF2 and TLR, and even so, both still get a lot of criticism.

>>5661284
SNES version has patches that add WSC content + extra playable characters that can be recruited. Obviously for JP only, but the patches alone makes the game way more expansive than the original.

>>5673321
not really. the only big issues are that you have reorganize a brand new party upon a TPK, and that you may have to respark some skills if you didnt have a time lapse between the emperor's death and the next one. but the skills that you spark will be learned in the next generation so even if you lose them, it's only temporarily.

>>5673458
>the narrative is fundamentally mimetic instead of diegetic, which is what makes it so obtuse
I mean for a game to be diagetic it would have to literally stop being a game for a period of time, so are you suggesting that the vast majority of people write games incorrectly and the audience isn't used to quality

because I'd basically agree

>>5674148
>are you suggesting that the vast majority of people write games incorrectly and the audience isn't used to quality
More or less, yeah, I tried to word it as best as I could so that I would avoid offending anyone.
Unfortunately, most people in the industry since two decades or so fundamentally misunderstand the medium, though there's also plenty of failed writers and movie directors who use it as some kind of therapeutic medium, to put it gently.
Doesn't help that the audience is at large both incapable of appreciating the medium's narrative potential and also trained to hate it as much as possible.
I hoped the recent Souls phenomenon could change things a bit, but nope, people are still largely incapable of digesting any kind of exposition and narrative that even so slightly deviates from the movie format.

>>5674948
I'll have to add that this 'movie format' you mention is mostly a hollywood thing though. There's lots of european, eastern asian and latin-american movies that use different kind of narrative besides 'explaining everything that's happening as it's happening'

I want to know if there's any RPG series written by actual writers or movie directors. The only one I know is Ni No Kuni, yet I haven't played it.

Are monsters in the original SaGa supposed to be completely worthless? So far I've acquired the Hero's Armour and Sword, but it feels like I've been retarding myself by using a monster.
Espers seem incredibly powerful though.

I'm playing the Wonderswan version, if that matters.

>>5675354
Monsters can only get stronger or stay at the same monster tier, but some monster forms suck. Monsters however don't cost any money and can get you powerful spells for free and that's their man draw.

>>5675187
Uh, the Mother series?

There's also Wild Arms V which is honestly hot garbage

>>5675409
I see. I'm climbing the tower now, these new monster forms are more interesting... but they still suck. I realised the cost of using 2 humans is prohibitive, so I've dropped one for another esper. The game has become pretty easy since one of them learnt teleport.
I'm really enjoying the game so far, it's simple, but the mechanics are far more interesting than its contemporaries.

I wonder if a monster-only run would be possible?

>>5675426
if you use the right forms you can sail through the game easily

>>5675416
>Finally know why it's called mother
I won't spoil it for yall

>>5675187
Yeah, you're absolutely right about that.
The problem is those kind of people are basically nonexistent in the medium, so the vast majority of what we get is discount Hollywood.
>>5675354
They kind of lag behind other races in terms of general balance, but some forms are still relatively powerful, the first SaGa is really all over the place in terms of balance, even humans lag behind Esper for most things.
The good thing about monsters is that as usual, they cost nothing at all and a monster form change can be a massive step up compared to the more slow and linear growth for the other two...but they still kind of suck.
Some forms like Krakens or gazer/beholders are pretty strong though, it just takes a full monster run to truly see and appreciates their potential, not to mention you can still abuse the chainsaw even with monsters sooo...you know, it just takes a bit of metaknowledge as always.

>>5675354
I find monsters in FFL I and II either in two camps. You either get their worthless forms, or you hit that sweet spot and they are much more powerful than any other party member and carry your party. They generally suck at the very start of the game because there generally aren't too many great transformations at the starting world, but they can easily be your best member with a zero cost investment for majority of the game. Then humans and mutants can out strip them in the end because money isn't a problem to pump your humans with stat ups and good weapons and mutants with spells. Though monsters still have some strong forms in the end game, they just won't have that overwhelming power level potential that they previously had.

>>5674948
>I hoped the recent Souls phenomenon could change things a bit,

Actually kinda funny you brought up the Souls games, as I was thinking of them as well, and while I agree they do storytelling in vidya decently, they still fall into pitfalls every now and then with NPCs who go into long-winded dialogs while you stand around. Granted 99% of them are optional, but still.

can you name any games similar to Romancing SaGa 2?

>>5664504
>The problem is Japan doesn't really have an active or big tabletop scene.

Tabletop stuff may not be big over there, but aren't there actually cafes dedicated to letting people set up board games/tabletop sessions? There could be potential there. Sure not gangbusters in terms of money, but it could easily be another way to interact with fans.

>>5676954
Regarding what?

>>5676954
I could name a few games that share similar aspects, like PS3, but it's hard to name something similar to the game as a whole.

what's his problem

how is the battle rank in SaGa Frontier 2?

>>5677869
is he wearing a tie?

>>5677869
Got pranked by Elore&Mirza
Split personality disorder
Youngest sibling issue
>>5678379
There's none.

>>5660983
>RS3, Scarlet Grace, and TLR all on switch
It feels good boys. It feels really good.

>>5678379
it technically does exist but only in one specific scenario. It's nothing to really worry about as all enemies have at least what I would consider a "moderately high" BR, but in order to spark a few endgame abilities you have to either get very lucky against certain enemies in duels that are in the mid/lategame, or you have to wait til the very last dungeon and grind up the BR. The issue with BR in the last dungeon is that you can not fight any duels in there, only team battles.

>>5661043
Difficulty tables and action growth factors are now editable.

SnakeOil, an editor for SaGa Frontier, is here:
https://bitbucket.org/MysticLord/snakeoil/downloads/

Source code is here:
https://bitbucket.org/MysticLord/snakeoil/src

Readme.txt:
https://bitbucket.org/MysticLord/snakeoil/src/default/readme.txt

Waza, the SF data project is here (necessary to understand some of the editors, like the skill editor):
https://bitbucket.org/MysticLord/waza/src/default/

>>5672032
Joker's motivation is probably similar to the Egg in SF2.

>>5679071
As long as one remembers to NOT take the anima crystal from Laubholz you can fight the lich repeatedly. If you wear the correct protective gear (Guard Beast, Water Mirror, life protection, some other status protects that i can't remember, probably mind protect) he's not that dangerous and is the single best way to grind stats and arts in duels. You have a good opportunity to do this with all the parties in Wil's timeline, but you might want to try for some of the drops there from the scripted non-random battles, since even the non-respawning zombies there drop lake robe (which is very very good at any part of the game) and the big gargoyles drop the red stone/black stone armor which you definitely want (but can live without).

>>5679528
Is the joker like some sort of parasitic artifact mask like the master ring or what?

>>5679606
Like at the end you kill joker one way or another and also fight deva, but who the fuck is deva, some kind of mystic assassin sent by trinity? Is Joker some weird mystic who can live on Ren's face?

Can someone here help me translate this quote from Koizumi?
>ふつうのユーザーは、十分に強く育てたキャラクターだったら100%勝ちたいんでしょうけどね。僕としては、勝てるのは6割くらいで、残りの4割は負けてもいいだろうって思うんですよ。戦略とか装備とかを工夫すれば、少なくとも5割を超えるくらいは勝てるようになるというのが理想なんだけど、それだとなかなか許してもらえなくて。

Most of it I've translated as "The average player wants to win 100% of the time if they've strengthened their characters adequately. As for me, I think 60% of the time you should win, and the other 40% of the time you should lose. Ideally you should win at least 50% of the time if you figure out strategies and equipment," but I'm not sure about that last bit:
>それだとなかなか許してもらえなくて。
My Japanese isn't that great, so can someone help explain what he means?

>>5679579
>NOT take the anima crystal from Laubholz you can fight the lich repeatedly
I didn't know this

But is this once per scenario or as many time as you wants during a Laubholz visit?

>>5679717
any time repeatedly forever until you take the crystal at which point he actually dies when you kill him (forever)

Hey, manafag here, just wanted to say crongratulations to sagabros for your announcement of saga 3. This alongside trials of mana have been a great time to be alive, you truly deserve your series to be revived

>>5679798
thank you, I am looking forward to playing RS3, Scarlet Grace, and Trials of Mana all on steam in the near future. Your game is looking like quite the good remake; what the steam SoM port should have been, imo.

>>5679857
the ps4 port of SoM was 10/10 man

that voice acting authentic for every single original japanese line of text just makes me so hard

>>5678603
>Split personality disorder
?

>>5679523
what does this editor do exactly?

do any saga games have sad scenarios like legend of mana does?

>>5677869
why can't Saruin do anything right? Is he supposed to be the Morgoth of this game's backstory?
also what's the point of raising favor with him

Romancing SaGa 2 seems interesting. You play as a line of Emperors? Is it hereditary or do you choose any successor? Is it as cool in the game as it sounds?

>>5679927
a vast majority of the different scenarios and events that happen in Frontier 2 are tragic, from start to finish.

>>5679937
basically in story, a soothsayer meets the king, tells the king tragedy is going to happen in the future, she gives the king the ability to pass on his skills to the next in line. in game, the first king passes on his skills to his son. after that though, you can pass your skills on to anyone that you deem worthy. in fact several events can happen where an emperor or empress may not actually die, but they choose to leave the throne and give their abilities to the next person. you choose each one.

>>5679934
his inferiority is the source of his hatred

>>5679938
there's an quest, boss, and sword in Legend of Mana you can only get if you have a SaGa Frontier 2 save, is there some other connection with the games?

>>5679973
i think both sf2 and lom use pocketstation?? though I could be wrong. I do know that Kawazu helped with development of LoM as well as help create Frontier 2.

So is the vita version of Grace not happening for the West?

>>5680053
Vita is dead, my dude. Production was discontinued in March.

>>5680053
It's not what >>5680186 is saying, or RS3 wouldn't be getting a Vita release. Rather, Scarlet Ambitions was never even released for Vita in Japan, and I can't imagine they would localize the original version of Scarlet Grace exclusively for Vita owners in the west.

>>5679934
>why can't Saruin do anything right?
The fatestones have sealed away his power. If you offer up all the fatestones to him, you'll see his true power.

>also what's the point of raising favor with him
It can open up a certain ending quest, but there are ways around that, albeit missable ways. He also has a benediction.

>>5679743
Wow neat, will do it next playthrough

>>5679798
Manabros are always welcome here, fren.
Let's hope both our series flourish and return back to form.
>>5679923
The minions are all parts of Saruin.
While they are a bit of a reference to the Darklords from Ultima V, they're still ultimately fractions of Saruin, and even their names gives it away, Spite, Strife, Scorn are Saruin's emotions after all.
>>5679934
I don't think he has much in common with Morgoth besides the whole evil god thing, if anything, Saiva could have been the Morgoth of RS1.
Morgoth was a big dick fallen god who created stuff, enslaved people and bossed his underlings around, Saruin is the bullish little brother of the trio who always gets betrayed by his underlings AND his siblings, the only things he got right were the Soul Drain (which was sealed away by Death anyway) and maybe the Jewel Beast, the gecklings faltered and the elemental lords betrayed him and sided with his nemesis.

Which are the comfiest cities in SaGa?

is there a way to teach certain skills in SF2? I fucking hate sparking and how random it is.

>>5680510
you can attempt to do them during duels with certain combinations

it's the only way to learn hybrid arts too, besides the story one

>>5680432
>Bunch of happy people brewing liquor among their families.
>No cigarette smoke around.
>Can go and relax in the ample plains where the horses ride.
>A swamp filled with monsters not even Satan himself can beat easily.
What else can you ask from life?

SaGa vs Ultima, which would win in a fight to the death

>>5681067
depends on what moves SaGa is gonna spark

>>5680432
Podorui, Koorong, Weissland and Nivacolina win that title for me.
Yeah, I like snowy cities.
>>5681067
It's a tough fight and it's also in favour of Ultima for some things since it came earlier and had a massive influence on everything else.
I'd say Ultima wins out slightly because of that, although I really don't like post U5 Ultima, the games became more and more focused on the life sim aspect of it all which I detest, as much as I recognize U7 is undoubtedly a masterpiece, but it steered the entire western industry in the wrong direction.

SaGa has the advantage of standing on Ultima's shoulders, so it had most of its work already done but at the same time it did actually continue Ultima's legacy unlike a lot of franchise which boast doing that but ultimately do not deliver, and SaGa not only keeps on delivering interesting mechanical designs, but also has much, much better battle design and character building than Ultima but also more interesting worlds, as much as they're very Ultima-ish.
All in all I'd say Ultima is a 51% compared to SaGa's 49% if we factor in historical value, Ultima's dead now so I think we need to put things into perspective a bit otherwise SaGa would end up winning by mere virtue of being still alive and somewhat kicking.

>>5679925
Edits a bunch of data tables in SaGa Frontier. Directly reads from and patches the disc image, so you don't need to fuck around with importing/exporting files using CD Mage.

Read up on the data tables (or at least their keys/legends) in Waza to understand what each table does, or better yet read Zaraktheus's data/mechanics FAQ.

>>5680432
Using RegionMap on SF is ultimate comfiness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o4h4OqSo14

>>5682707
it doesn't feel the same without the Regionmap SFX.

give me your hot opinions on the series.

From what I've played
SF > RS2 > FFL2 > FFL > RS SFC > FFL3

>>5684124
There are games I like more but others I know are better

For example I know RS2 is among the best (if not the best), but my favorite of them all is SF2. I'd have to make two rankings

>>5684124
Honestly this list is correct given that you haven't played the others.

I'd say, having not played Scarlet Grace:
US=SF>RS2=SF2>MS>RS3>S2>S1>RS1>S3

>>5684124
Unlimited/RS2>MS/SG>TLR/SF1/SF2>RS3/SaGa 2/SaGa 3DS>SaGa 2/RS SFC>SaGa 1>>>SaGa 3

>>5684701
lets not include last remnant desu

>>5684730
das raciss
It's still part of the series.

>>5684701
>>5684669
Is US really that good or does it get bonus points just for the sheer insanity?

mechanics aside, Unlimited's setting just isn't as interesting as the other games

>>5684785
Unlimited is a love or hate deal in a franchise that is already a love or hate deal, so while I consider it excellent you might hate it.
I do not deny it has its problems (Many campaigns are linear, little player input on campaign progression etc.) and oversights (SKL is a broken stat, tablet learning is too slow for its own good etc.) like every other game, but I still consider it the mechanical peak of the series and the game with the most interesting and well realized set of core mechanics in the series, timeless visuals, a banging OST (Perhaps Hamauzu's very best work) and a very nice cast.
I really wish a new mainline would go back to the core ruleset and expand on it, it's one of the most interesting RPG systems ever created.

>>5684808
I didn't play much but the first couple hours the worldbuilding and lore seemed great to me

>>5684808
I personally like the setting a lot, especially since it's more or less a fantasy retelling of Alexander the Great's story, with lots of other nice historical references all around.
The characters and their stories are interesting and most of the places you go to are really interesting too, like the wonders or some of the cities like Iskandaria.
It also has the usual SaGa deal of multiple intertwined narrative threads which is very nice to unravel as you play through the different characters' stories, it's one of the more interesting worlds in the series together with the Frontier games and Scarlet Grace.

>>5684809
unbridled cuckoldry

>>5684736
honestly thats like saying tales of earthsea is a miyazaki movie

>>5684124

Of the games I've played (Not counting the DS remakes, just started playing through SaGa2, haven't even touched SaGa3 yet):

Top tier:
SF (beat all scenarios)
USaga (beat all scenarios)

Great:
RS:MS (Arguably best mechanics to date, but a bit repetitive due to lack of difference in MCs outside of start)
RS 3 (Very very good story and nice subtle differences of characters, kinda becomes samey after a bit. Looking very forward to the remake)
SF 2 (Something quite different even among the SaGa series, but a refreshing title with great art/music that holds up to this day)

Good:
SaGa 2 (Easy to jump into and make a new adventure with. only complaint is how much RNG the game gets later on, and how character progression takes a nosedive in comparison to fights)
SaGa 1 (Felt like a real D&D adventure with Kawazu mechanics. Very simple story, fun to play. Doesn't hold up quite as well as Saga2 though)

Ok but wouldn't play through more than once tier:
RS2 (I'm just not personally a fan of some of the mechanics in this game. Different yes but not really my thing. That and being a harder game even by SaGa standards made it hard for me to get into it)
SaGa 3 (not really a SaGa game by anything other than name)

how does Unlimited run on an emulator? I know it's mostly 2d and prerendered but some of these games have features that make them run like dirt on the emulator.

>>5684809
I don't know what people see in Hamazau, a lot of his compositions sound samey.
https://youtu.be/fAHeyDKBjKc?list=PLEC8538F223505B2A
FFX and FFXIII has like a dozen variations of something that sounds like this

>>5684835
it runs flawlessly. game is not really ps2 intensive at all. i used an emulator and iso, and it ran out of the box perfect. only very minor issue i had was there were some minor scanlines while progressing over the map at times but if i spent about 5 minutes fiddling with the default settings my emulator was on, i probably could have rid of them.

>>5684808
Being presented through mostly static images and sparse text doesn't help. If you really did into it, like the other anons said you can find some good stuff, but I can understand why some might write it off.

>>5684808
Being presented through mostly static images and sparse text doesn't help. If you really dig into it, like the other anons said you can find some good stuff, but I can understand why some might write it off.

>>5684829
>a bit repetitive due to lack of difference in MCs outside of start
really? And you have to play through them all?

>>5684835
Perfectly fine even on toasters, you have adjust your 2D settings a bit though otherwise you'll get a few glitches on certain windows.
>>5684841
>a lot of his compositions sound samey.
You can say that of any and all composers, especially prolific ones.
Ito's the same as much as I love him too.

SaGa Frontier is the only game in the series that's actually FUN
Minstrel Song was dogshit for masochists

>>5684853
Hamazau keeps doing that piano key pecking thing and it gets grating hearing that in so many of his songs

>>5684861
Blame the germans.

>>5684841
I haven't really been a huge follower of him before USaga, but he really put together a killer OST for the game that brings together a lot of different styles (Orchestra, strings, brass, also with some jazz and house beats). it was just really good, and very different across this OST. maybe they have similar styles in different games hes worked on, idk, but one of the most common things I hear about Unlimited is "the game is bad but the music is very good".

>>5684808
depends on what scenarios you played through. you'll only get a general idea of how the setting came to existence if you beat a few different scenarios total. You only get bits and pieces (and even then, a fair bit is simply implied and left up to the player to figure what happened, much like in Frontier 2) until you play through everyone really.

A bit unrelated but one of the things I really liked about Unlimited is how much attention to detail they put in game, even with little things as far as party composition in each scenario, and how certain characters meet each other. For example, Henri being on the run, he had two directions to go (which are both roads/routes connected that you travel in game). Going north, he runs into Laura at the town of Nivacolina and joins her at the beginning of her own scenario (and I would consider that being the canon choice he makes, as he is a major character in her route). But there is a route that goes directly west, to the town of Wanda, where he meets Armic and joins him there (probably not canon since he is a minor character in Armic's story). Each character is in exactly two scenarios (except for one, but that character is kind of a big fucking deal so it's to be expected), having a major role in one, and a minor role in the other.

>>5684850
Not at all, you can pick one of the 8 different characters and get a vast majority of the story from them. Its just most of the quests are pretty basic and interchangable as far as MCs go.

>put 200 hours into rs2 between the steam and phone ports
>never beaten it but it's my favorite retro game
i feel kinda bad about that. maybe i'll start a new game of it up.

>>5684943
NG+ lets you at least break the early game.

>>5684943
how can you tolerate playing that on a phone

>>5684951
oh i've never played it ng+, i know you don't need to beat the game to have access to it but it feels like kind of a waste.

>>5684953
i was pumped to play a saga game that wasn't available in english before, and it released on phones a couple years before it released on other platforms. even when i was stuck playing it on a phone i loved it, but having access to playing with with a proper gamepad on my pc solidified it as "my favorite retro game and possibly the best JRPG ever made imo"

can I get some tips on optimizing my characters please
I heard that it's good idea to just repeat a specific skill or magic for each character and make them proficient at that? Making well rounded characters seems like a mistake

>>5684968
in which game tho?

>>5684968
Just bee urself.

>>5684895
>even with little things as far as party composition in each scenario, and how certain characters meet each other.
Yeah, as much as I don't like the more definite and smaller character sets in Unlimited there's definitely a lot of attention they put into making the parties thematical with the usual "what if" possibilities, it's a shame that a lot of people completely miss that though.
>>5684968
You have to tell us which game you're playing though.
In some of the games you can definitely have a jack of all trades in your party, some characters are in fact naturally built like that, just don't expect them to be ever able to compete with specialized characters, and most importantly do not expect to have a single character learn a lot of different stuff, it's pretty much impossible, especially since in many games you have opposing spell schools which cancel each other out.

>>5684848
those battle animations though, that lich man

>>5679523
Bugfix:

https://bitbucket.org/MysticLord/snakeoil/downloads/

>>5684124
>Hot takes
>>>/pol/

>>5673352
>>5669017
Literally no one uses uncompressed audio and graphics as a consumer these days. Lossless compression formats work just fine. Only audiophiles play uncompressed audio. Likewise for uncompressed video. Even video data on Bluray discs are compressed. The STEAM dev must be retarded or at least as retarded as an an audiophile.

>>5669803
>I'm thinking it might let the noob grinding unpunished,

What does that even mean? If you mean normie friendly, then SaGa 3 is closest to a "traditional" JRPG, but the mechanics is very un-SaGa.

If you want short games with little grind, then SaGa Frontier is the best. If you want an easy to understand battle system(other than SaGa 3), then SaGa 1 as long as you don't use monsters.

>>5685041
Everything from battle animations to the rich backgrounds in Unlimited is fantastic, it looks just as great as it did more than 15 years ago.
Proof that art direction>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>graphix

>>5685154
>yfw there are people who complain that Unlimited has "3fps" animation

>>5685154
you just convinced me to play through it again, I hate the word, but it's just too damn "comfy"

>>5685247
my thoughts exactly

now that I have the artbook I hope to achieve ultimate comfiness

>>5684895
>>5684821
>>5684808
How much does the novel expand on things?

btw, why is US just not well received at all? Outside of Japan it only got very low scores and was "one of the worst games ever" and "everything that's wrong with jrpgs" for every god damn reviewer, is it really only because of the difficulty?

>>5685270
Difficulty and presentation. Remember that Final Fantasy was one of the leading franchises of the genre and relied heavily on spectacle and production values. Unlimited was the complete fucking opposite to everything FF and other jrpgs at that time were doing.

>>5685276
>Unlimited was the complete fucking opposite to everything
That's probably the perfect way to describe it. Well I like it better when games are hated because then I can get it really cheap haha.

>>5685270
the game mechanics were very very opaque, and it was released during a time where the sharing of information was on a much smaller scale than it is now. this game came after final fantasy 10, which while much easier to understand, FFX had a playerbase that was much larger so they were able to delve into the mechanics and understand everything there is to know about the game. Unlimited didn't have the playerbase for it, nor did they have the motivation to do so since the game was unlike anything that people have seen before. like sure, gamefaqs existed, but information for USaga wasn't even attempted to be compiled in any significant format until probably 2007 or 2008, which was years and years after it came out.

in addition to that, the JPN version was sold with a guide that explained a lot of the mechanics of the game, whereas the players in NA received about an 8 page players guide that explained almost nothing.

>>5685262
Are there a lot of works on Unlimited in the artbook?

>>5685270
The other anons have already told you everything you need to know.
To add some other bits to it, SaGa was never big in the west and if you go look at all the reviews for the other games sans the GB ones (Look at the power of brand names, just look at it), they're all the same, Unlimited just pushed all the previous criticism to the extreme due to being the logical extreme of what the series stands for, Minstrel Song didn't get much better reviews either, nor did TLR.
Scarlet Grace will also get the very same criticism and people will shit on it because it doesn't have cities or dungeons on top of the weird mechanics, the only thing I don't think they'll rant about will be the game being "obtuse" because this time it comes with a in game manuals that is literally idiotproof, but I'm sure they'll still bitch and moan about something on that side either way, like the complex progression, no way to see your BR and so on.

>>5685346
does anyone have a general idea of how the game/battle mechanics work in Scarlet Grace? will there be battle ranking? From what I've seen there have been battles that you can do multiple difficulties of, that give better rewards/statups/etc if completed. will it be like that manner, where there are a limited amount of opportunities to power up like in Unlimited (for Judy/Mythe routes), or can we go back to certain events and grind up if our hearts desire?

>>5685346
>because this time it comes with a in game manuals

Well, technically so did Minstrel Song, but it always felt like it led to more confusion for me rather than clearing things up.

>>5685357
I played it, so I do.
>will there be battle ranking
Yes, but it's the nerfed TLR version where things only get stats up rather than getting different enemies.
It does work fairly differently in terms of scaling though.
>From what I've seen there have been battles that you can do multiple difficulties of, that give better rewards/statups/etc if completed
Kind of, as usual you have different BR floor and ceiling, the game tells you more or less where your current BR is compared to the event's BR, which is why you get those difficulty ranks from Easy to Very Hard.
As for different rewards, it depends, you have base event rewards, which are shuffled dynamically among a set for each event AND scale with your current BR, then you have battle rewards, which are awarded to you by fullfilling up to three battle conditions, such as fighting with a party of all males/females, performing a certain reserve waza, not triggering enemy reserve waza and so on.
>there are a limited amount of opportunities to power up
Yes and no, most events in the game are one time only, but there's a small set of fixed events for each region to prevent hard locking like most campaigns in Unlimited.
>>5685408
Scarlet's manual is a lot more direct than MS, which was more or less a nudge in the right direction for most things and not a proper in game manual.

SaGa is for women and cucks

>>5685574
video games are for faggots, what's your point?

>>5685574
>>5686017
go away

listen https://youtu.be/_Fh31cE_KCU

I finished SaGa/FFL 1.

It was a simple little jrpg with unique, thoughtful mechanical design that places it far above most of its contemporaries. I'm sure I would have loved it had I owned it on the gameboy back in the day.

I found the difficulty curve quite interesting. Humans and mutants grow quickly and will be approaching the stat cap around the midgame. The second and third worlds are very easy as a result, but beyond that enemies continue to get stronger and throw out more powerful attacks while the player's party is stagnating. As a result, battles in the late game become much more tense, as opposed to most jrps where the player has reached an almost unstoppable powerlevel by that point. The final climb up the tower was particularly nasty; I'm ashamed to admit I used the chainsaw trick on the final boss, but I was on my last legs and had no desire to struggle through those encounters again.

The biggest problem is simply the encounter rate; this game has to have some of the most infuriatingly frequent random encounters I've experienced. They often fire back to back and a ride on any conveyor belt or lift is sure shared by multiple batches of enemies. I read on Wikipedia that this was an intentional design to keep short bursts of play on a portable system interesting, but personally I felt it was the other way around; the encounter rate ensured I would only play for short bursts before getting frustrated.

Now for SaGa 2. Should I go with the GB or DS version? If the remake is significantly different or adds the sort of timewasters that plague modern game then I'll stick with the original.

>>5686249
in my personal opinion, if you played through the original Saga1 on GB, just do it for Saga 2 as well. theres not a lot of difference ive noticed so far besides graphics and a couple minor mechanics that add side story shit. for saga 3 i would recommend the DS version though.

>>5686249
play whichever looks&sounds more interesting (first), they're both good games. Personally I became fond of the GB version with no nostalgia attached

>>5686092
Can't get as manly as ALKAISER!
https://youtu.be/t_N1TFWh7ac
And then there's the battle music used for MetalBlack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMEUiAtGLyA

Mikhail's theme was bretty gud too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWElM2t57xk

>>5686249
>Chainsaw
I made one monsters stick as a weaker monster with SAW just so I can abuse it for random encounters and bossfights. Basically gave me a rechargeable chainsaw. That and I always checked a walkthrough whenever I got to confusing parts so I don't get lost and fight more than I need to.

>>5686249
I second>>5686272
As for SaGa 2 DS, it doesn't really add any filler outside of a bunch of short sidequests for the Muses, which work like the gods in MS, then you have an optional arena world where you can fight extra battles with powered up bosses to get better gear, the core game is exactly the same, outside of a surprise for the last boss.
Mechanically wise, you still have the same core rules, albeit a bit rebalanced, less glitchy, with some exploits removed and a few QoL features like seeing which Monster form and abilities you're going to get before eating meat.
On top of this, they've added a few extra mechanics in the form of the unique threads of fate combo features which are tied to the pantheon system, by comboing attacks in SaGa 2 DS each character will use a different waza depending on the weapon they use in the combo, it's pretty fun, moreover you have a more polished pantheon system where the muses award you special points and also act as summons once in a while if you behave in a way they like, as in finish a battle in one turn, use a lot of magic and so on.

They've also added an interesting roleplaying mechanic tied to the thread system in which depending on the threads of fate you use to make combos, your party relationships between characters change, which in turn changes the dialogues during the main quests quite a bit depending on the relationships between character, be it love, hate, family, rivalry and so on, it's pretty interesting.

I'd say play the GB original and then play the remake, it's just a tiny bit longer than SaGa 1 so it won't take much, the DS remake is more or less a Minstrel Song deal, same thing for SaGa 3, though GB SaGa 3 is unfortunately pretty bad, music aside.

I'm playing RS2, is there a limit to how many times you can use the skill dojo?

>>5686946
Nope, you can use it as much as you want.

>>5664392
>>5664340
>>5664334
I'm guessing no one has tried to replicate Unlimited in Tabletop Simulator?

bros are we finally getting our Live-A-Live remaster soon?

>>5661864
no, that's still Romancing SaGa 2

>>5688013
shut the fuck up

>>5688016
how

What would living in the RS1 setting be like

>>5688023
compared to every SaGa game, RS2 still gets a lot of cameo stuff in other Square-Enix games like Final Fantasy

>>5688013
https://www.siliconera.com/2011/03/25/anyone-want-a-remake-of-live-a-live-well-aside-from-the-games-creator/
>downloable episodes
i hope the SaGa remasters and Mana collection made them change their minds on that...

>>5687890
We'd need to have a complete game document with all the inner working of the all mechanics, which we don't.
Hard to try and replicate things like the formula for panel pools when we don't know how the various values interact with each other and the final calculation.
>>5688026
Fine as long as you're not in the Frontier, Estamir, Ligau or the Coral Sea.
I wanna live in Gato's village and get snug with Sif in front of the fireplace, after she returns from a long day of monster slaying.

>>5688114
We need someone to tell Kawazu TS exists so he can make a SaGa in it. Can't be any stranger than using Adobe.

>>5688029
What references?

>>5688282
I guess he's talking about the FF mobage having various RS2 events.
As far as the other Square games go, I can't think of many RS2 cameos outside of Lord of Vermilion and that one recent Mana spinoff that had the Real Queen and Guella-Ha as cameos.
Other than those, there's not many SaGa cameos or references in other IPs, some of the FF games did adopt Midare Setsugekka, and apparently the FFXIII games had a few SaGa references, Bhunivelze also does look suspiciously similar to MS Saruin, what with having the same exact pose and all.

Saruin, our creator! Why do you have to make war?

>>5688356
Bhunivelze's pose is based on an unused Ramuh fal'Cie though. He's more androgynous than Saruin too and their goals as well as personalities are completely different. There isn't much overlap, did Saruin hate his mother as much as Bhuni?

>>5688114
what's up with Estamir?

Is Kawazu a fan of Tolkien? It seems like there's a bit of Tolkien influence in the way backstories are presented, or it might just be whatever slight influence that existed in old Ultima games.

I'm driving, got a lotta wind blowing. Let me pull over.

>>5688441
North Estamir has Wuhanji kidnapping girls to put in his rape dungeon while South Estamir is a shithole ran by thieves, slavers and assassins.
Kujarat in general doesn't look like a nice place to live in, there's internal political struggles between North and South Kujari too, let alone the hostility with the Rosalian Empire and bordering with the Frontier in the west.
>>5688445
Not sure, I don't think he ever mentioned Tolkien's works and whatever influences there might be are probably second hand stuff from Ultima and D&D.

I want to make my room look just like one of the rooms in SaGa Frontier. Am I weird?

>>5688439
>Bhunivelze's pose is based on an unused Ramuh fal'Cie though
Might be, you can't deny there's some striking similarities though.

explain that scene in SF2 where Phillipe grabs the firebrand and... turns into a dragon? Did he turn into it was it summoned? I didn't understand what happened. Petrol

>When you read about how the Monster class works in SF
https://essenceofsaga.wordpress.com/home/book-index/monster-system/
Jesus, What the Rabite easter egg fuck.

>>5688456
Who would win in a fight to the death?

>>5688457
>explain that scene in SF2 where Phillipe grabs the firebrand and... turns into a dragon?
Same thing that happened to Wil N.2 being turned into the Megalith Beast or the Edelritter having monstrous forms.
Quells can completely fuck you up if you can't control them or they resonate, remember how Sargon's friends also got turned into slimes, Sargon himself being an Edelritter gained his draconic form, Philippe went berserk after his son got killed in front of him, the Firebrand resonated with his Anima and turned him into a red dragon.
It's kind of like the Apostles in Berserk really, except that Quells are philacteries that also grant you powers if you happen to have strong enough Anima.

>>5688452
If you mean the rooms in Koorong I know that feel, but I'm a sucker for late 80's/90's cyberpunk and the Kowloon aesthetic in particular is rad as fuck.

>>5688456
what if saruin kept telling you how much of a hard on you're giving him while fighting

>>5688114
what does she smell like anon

>>5688439
>Bhunivelze's pose is based on an unused Ramuh fal'Cie though
Where did you hear that? The concept art for Ramuh looks pretty different from Bhuni. I agree with the other guy that Bhuni's final phase is a Saruin reference. Lightning Returns has a bunch of other SaGa references, like that one sidequest with a girl who has a lightbulb appear over her head and flat-out says "Pikon! I just sparked something!" in the JP version. It got lost in translation somewhat in the English version, though. A few of the shop names are also references to locations, techniques, and characters from SaGa. One of the battle planners for FF13 said that Orphan being vulnerable to death was intended as a reference to the chainsaw bug.

>>5679626
I wonder if it's one of those implied phrases that they just drop -- I hate that stuff. Anyway... I get the feeling that he's saying something along the lines of "that sort of thing is quite hard to sell/quite difficult for others to be able to accept"
God I suck at translating. My English feels wrong; I'm too stupid to put the feeling I get from the Japanese into English.
Also, I probably know even less Japanese than you. I haven't tried to expand my vocabulary for over a year now -- just been lazily listening to audio dramas.

>>5688707
>quite difficult for others to be able to accept
That's pretty much what I was thinking too. It seemed like a context-heavy point he was expressing so I wanted a second opinion. Thanks.

>>5688441
The whole city is a designated shitting street.

>>5688665
>The concept art for Ramuh looks pretty different from Bhuni

>Bhunivelze
I have played FFXIII in its entirety and I don't remember that at all. Is it delved further in the sequels?

>>5684124
Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song > Romancing SaGa 2 = SaGa Frontier > Final Fantasy Legend II > Unlimited Saga = Final Fantasy Legend I > Final Fantasy Legend III > SaGa Frontier 2

Which version of RS2 is best? I'm debating between steam, vita or switch. I heard they all have pretty shitty input delay.

>>5689208
On the third one you get to kill Bhunivelze. I'm a masochistic fucker and I like 100% games, so I platinum'ed the trilogy. My only advice is don't play them.

>>5689337
He probably isn't dead

>>5689330
I've heard PC doesn't have it. I personally played with the Switch version and the input delay is a non-issue after a half-hour.

which saga games don't have sparking
fuck that shit

>>5688505
You'd just have to remind him he has no dong.
>>5688508
Valhallan Musk

>>5661776
Its basically furry LOTR.

>>5689360
SaGa 1-3. Though you get random skills/spells on mutants in 1.

>>5672286
how does the ps1 version compare to the 3ds remake?

>>5689385
Who's the Boromir of Riki's story

>Kazuko Shibuya still has her sprite sheets for the SaGa games
On other news, Re:UniverSe has received the "Square Enix president award" for its supposed achievements, with so much money in the bank right now, a Frontier remake with actual budget is becoming more and more real

>>5689116
Ok, I see it in that pose now, thanks.

>>5689116
looks like the devs forgot to turn off the transparency bg

Romancing SaGa 2 is at a 25% discount on Steam right now

>>5690456
Your mom is at a 25% discount at the street corner right now

>>5690560
Don't you ever get tired of shitting threads with your lame posts

>>5690665
Just ignore him

>>5689873
how is re:universe?

>>5691126
I categorically refuse to play mobage, so I wouldn't know, best I could do is play Imperial SaGa for a year or so but I just couldn't find the strength to go on and the meta became pretty retarded either way, and the model for these games being based around grinding daily assigments turns them more into work than games.
I hear nothing but praise about it though, so I guess it's a competent game in its genre? Given just how successful it is and the fact that it kickstarted a massive wave of fanart on twitter it must be at least addictive enough to work.
Game looks great though, and the pixel art shorts they're making are amazing.

I know this is a weird question, but which characters do you think have the nicest sounding names?

Just finished RS2, my first SaGa game. Looking forward to the RS3 and Scarlet Grace ports. Do either of those games have the same level of world building or the detailed setting of RS2? That was one of my favorite parts of the game.