/vr/ - Retro Games

1 Try not to get shot and shoot back until it dies
2 ???
3 Play a better genre not made for pathetic masochists.

>>5603201
>>5603170
get gud

I haven't even made it this far. I always game over on 1-5 unless I credit feed, which I don't

OP here, I figured him out. (:

Anyways, what are you lads playan?

>>5603170
The thumbnail makes that look like a purple alien bent over trying to take a shit and you have to shoot the turd

I'm playing Donpachi lately and I keep fucking up, I can get to stage 4 on a good run but lately I'm fucking up and dying on stage 2.

I like the ones where I play as cute anime girls with fluffy hair.

>>5603170
I never die on that boss because I don't play simple memory monkey dodgers.

Reminder: there's nothing wrong with using savestates to simulate a level select/practice mode like many home conversions feature.

>>5603201
>pathetic masochists.
Or maybe they are heroic badasses?

>>5603503
nice

>>5603170
I'm currently playing this bad boy.

>>5604141
>>5603170
Unironically the way you beat bosses, all bosses, is to just copy replays. Usually there are some safe spots to exploit and a certain order of destroying parts.

Don't know why anyone finds these games fun though.

>>5604150
>Just copy a replay
>Not sure why I robbed myself out of all the fun though

>>5604152
No fun was robbed since they were never fun to begin with. But if you want to waste more time then just trial and error the bosses.

>>5604164
>Why bother PLAYING the game when you can just watch someone else play it.

>>5604175
What are you talking about? I don't find these fun with or without replays.
I'm just telling OP that copying replays is a valid and popular strategy among shmupfaggots. All the pros do it, and they get mad when people keep replays secret and hidden.

>>5603170
>shmup discussion
Cringe. Nothing to talk about just dodge and hold auto Fire. Learn to charge shot when you can. Rinse repeat.
Braindead genre.

I'm trying to remember a game I played on my dad's computer when I was young, and it's driving me crazy. The main thing is that it was a Xevious clone, but the first large flying saucer boss had a hatch that opened periodically which you had to shoot a missile into. Any ideas? As I recall, it also has a band shield which you had to shoot out.

>>5604201
>I don't find these fun with or without replays.
Then fuck off.

>>5604243
999% based.

>>5604243
>>5604260
How many shmups have you 1cc'd? Come back when you've got some 1cc's under your belt, then we'll talk. Until then, you simple don't have any credibility. The weight of your opinion is measured in 1cc's, and 1cc's alone.

the virgin 1cc collector
vs
the chad scorer

What is it about shmups that gets insecure no skill games-as-identity losers so upset?

>>5603729
Me too. Have you done Gleylancer and Galactic Attack/Layer Section yet? I used to be pretty good at Gleylancer and 1CC'd it on whatever the default difficulty is, but I have yet to get to the end of Galactic Attack, even using all my continues. I tried for a long time. Then my Saturn stopped working so I gave up. That last couple of stages, man...

>>5604145
I thought that said "Power Date," which could be a neat game, like a dating sim you control via shmup gameplay

>>5604397
Not him but he's right. 1cc is just dodge and shoot, panic bomb when needed or cheese bosses with bombs. Thinking only comes in when you're trying to grind a significantly highscore. Very few people find scoring fun, and the scrubs who just play for 1ccs are missing out most of the depths shmups offer.

>>5604431
Depends on the game, and ofc 2-alls require very good routing and skill

>>5604438
>depends on the game and 2-alls
I guess a few exceptions exist

>>5604445
It's not just a few exceptions, most games with loops do this by minimizing or removing your ability to bomb and requiring consistent dodging. Psikyo are well known for being extremely routing based, you won't even get through the first loop without it. Though even 1-ALL's start involving thinking as soon as you hit parts that kill you repeatedly, one of the major differences between experienced players and newbies is that experienced players play smart and have a much better method for learning various parts and patterns, while newbies rely more on feel and end up with garbage consistency and understanding.

>>5604431
Hmm, from what you say, playing for score does sound far better than playing for the 1cc. I'm new to shmups though, so I'm starting with 1cc's. After I get to the point of actually 1cc'ing a reasonably hard game I'll try going for score. I used to play racing games for time attack and it was pretty fun, so I guess this is similar.

>>5604427
Yeah, that could be cool and if the date goes badly you can explode them,

>>5604489
Why limit yourself to just one or the other when the two are closely linked? Do scoring in parts that you've learned well, like the early levels, and have become too easy, just don't push yourself into risky strategies too much or else you will be stuck restarting the first 2 levels instead of getting skilled at the whole game. Deep scoring systems in shmups are very similar to racing time attack on very long courses in many ways.

I play shmups because they are pick up and play, I don't have a lot of time to dedicate to games as I have many other interests that are much more interesting and worthwhile.

>>5604520
>shmups are good for casuals who don't like gaming and effort

Makes sense.

>>5604546

lmao getting gud at a shmup is hard as fuck, fuckboy

stick to rpgs and platformers peasant

My dad can clear both loops of this game on a good day.
But had to use a guide to beat FF9 and complained about the last boss was being unfair.

>>5604556
My dad is a beast at Saga series and Wizardry yet ragequit Batsugun Special after hours of trying to 1cc it

>>5604556

outliers exist

>>5604565
It was his first jrpg, but still I found it funny.

>>5604556
>Necron being unfair
To be fair Necron is one of the hardest mandatory bosses in the series, specially if you don't equip the appropriate gear.

>>5604556

Why is your dad playing with kids toys?

Any good "easy" shmups that I could 1CC without trying too hard?

>>5604605
Batsugun Special Version (mame)
Musha (genesis)
Pocky & rocky (snes)

>>5603503
>there's a consistent safe spot 99% of the time
Weak pattern design on the dev's part honestly.

>>5604770
Psikyo final bosses are often either easy or have safe spots, it's likely deliberate. Not unusual for arcade devs to leave safe spots in so even players with bad mechanical skill can beat the games if they find them, Toaplan said so in interviews.

>>5604556
He's not wrong. Necron requires prep work and knowledge of his mechanics, as well as RNG to be in your side. Meanwhile a shmup is crushed through pure skill.

>>5604774
doing damage control for Psikyo
cringe

It's literally an asshole pushing out turds being viewed from below, why is nobody talking about it holy shit

>>5604605
Gradius III (SNES version; arcade is very difficult)

>>5604779
>preparation, acquiring and applying knowledge
>not skills

>>5604796
Have you considered butchering a SA-1 cartridge for that authentic full speed arcade feel?

>>5604803
I tried the arcade version on MAME and it's beyond my ability. I cleared the SNES version with no deaths, so I decided to just be happy with that and move along.

>>5604783
Many of the attacks are deliberately programmed to funnel you towards the center, do you think it's some freak accident of programming?

>>5604808
That being said, I think clearing the game with no deaths is the only reasonable way to play it, since you get punished so hard for dying. It can be almost impossible to keep going if you die at the wrong moment.

>>5604798
Bats has actual skills to go with, unlike you.

>>5603503
That honestly doesn't look that hard. Seems like a standard bullet hell boss.

>>5603503
>obvious safe spot in the middle
>hold auto-fire
>both forms equally exploitable
based Psikyo
Is this the first boss?

>>5604619
Thanks for the info.
I'm actually surprised about, from what I remember of the Saturn version is was a classical danmaku.
Musha is very good, but it's quite often messy; maybe because I'm not used to the megadrive. I'll try it again.

>>5604790
FUCK someone acknowledge it please

>>5604564
Most of Batsugun Special is pretty easy, but the patterns honestly hypnotize me and I inevitably get killed.

>>5605237
The game has dogshit visibility despite being super easy, yeah. Something about its particular mix of colours messes with the eyes, especially stage 4 onwards which are the main ones you'll have to deal with in the loops.

>>5604520
I got Soldier Blade on the Wii virtual console last year because I still had some money in my account and had to spend it before the store shut down.

I still can't get past the miniboss in level 2 but I still will just start up the game occasionally.

>>5604851
Yeah, it's not so bad once you figure out his 2nd and 4th patterns are static.

>>5604862
Kek. Strikers 2 seems like the easiest Psikyo 1-ALL, yeah, even moreso than Sengoku Ace. I'm playing Dragon Blaze now and getting my shit pushed in with Rob. I've never had this much trouble with a Psikyo before.

Is there actually a good shmup?

>>5605361
Raptor: Call of the Shadows

this thread is the reason why /vr/ is not taken seriously.

>>5605373
back to your shmup cuckshed, discord tranny

>>5605373
god forbid

>>5605361
> Is there actually a good shmup?
If there is no one has found it yet.

Anyone check out any of the indie shmups made for the Dreamcast? I'm a big fan of Neo Xyx - it reminds me of Truxton 2. That same developer has made a lot of really good shmups and run 'n guns.

>>5604770
you can fix a lot of this as a dev by aiming at the player every once in a while, which is zero effort to do

If you were an shmup boss that could shoot hundreds of bullets at a time, why would you shoot out patterns with gaps that could be dodged through and not just a solid wall of bullets? Ruins my immersion honestly.

>>5604424
I used to own the latter but never got to play the former.

>>5604136
Thats fair. The only reason I don't like savestating is that it breaks my immersion, moreso than any false sense of honor.

who /anti-cave gang/ here

>>5606116
No one. But quite a few shit on psikyo

why current year shmups are so faggy?

>>5606553
That's cute! :3

>>5606553
because you cherry pick
devil engine and zero ranger look fine

>>5606553
>he doesn't know about cute em' ups
silly zoomers just learning about the genre

>>5606553

that looks epic + cute em' ups have been around since the saturn faggot

>>5606574
>>5606721
>>5606761
there's "cute" and then there's cringe patheticness

>>5606761
I don't like the cute 'em ups. I really don't care for them at all. Even something like Trouble Makers is too cute for me. I like space ships and planes shooting other planes. If I even see the pilot in the plane it's kind of annoying, unless it's a really badass, macho dude.

>>5606867
>I like look at muscular dudes
fag

>>5606721
more like incel 'em up lmao

go have sex.

>>5606913
I can't have sex, no one likes me

>>5606926
Same, also can't get a job because my resume is shit and I have no irl friends/connections.

>>5606926
>He doesn't have hate sex

>>5606989
>he doesn't RAPE

Don't sleep on Blazing Star.

>>5607585
It's okay for a shmup I guess. Too bad it looks like pixelated vomit.

>>5607631
Since when is "pixelated" a derogatory term for a shmup?

>>5607639
since blazing star goes full retard with it

>>5607643
It's not as bad as thunder force 4 at least. Everyone talks about how great it looks but I swear nobody's actually played it.

>>5607645
Technosoft shmups are overrated as fuck in general by people with no 1ccs or scores

>>5607645
>shoot at popcorn 643634 times
>one enemy dies
im too casual for thunder force iv

>>5607673
post your shmup achievements
I'm ready for a good laugh

>>5607694
Gunbird 2 up to 2-6 and Espgaluda 39 million, nothing special but much better than almost everybody sucking off technosoft

>>5606870
No way! I have no time for that Cho Aniki shit.

>>5607706
>can't clear G2
opinion rendered irrelevant

>>5607739
And you can? The loop's hard

>>5607740
G1 and 2 were my first 2-all clears roughly 10 or 11 years ago.

>>5607746
Ah yeah I'm sure you were a superplayer in the 90s too and just happen to not have any evidence of it what so ever

Getting a 2-all on Gunbird has no correlation to the quality of Thunder Force 4, put your dicks away. If you have an opinion you should articulate it.

>>5607769
Too long, bullet sponge enemies, weapons have low fire rate and aren't fun to shoot, on mania the difficulty fluctuates between being too easy with nothing going on and the game killing you suddenly with no progression, and the game can look ugly as sin at times. I wouldn't call it bad but I don't see why it's on everyone's top shmups lists, besides the music being great.

>>5607737
>no time for Cho Aniki
That's pretty gay of you, anon.

>>5606553
Cave-chan is fucking awesome

>>5607739
>not good at games therefore opinion on games is worthless
Is there a more immature perspective than this?

>>5608371
post scores big boi

>>5608483
post dick to prove you're a man

>>5608487
>wanting to see another man's willy
fags will burn forever in hellfire

>>5608487
>>5608503

>>5603170
That looks like an ass trying to shit out a really angry turd

Ketsui being streamed over at HEY rn.

https://live2.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv320180296

>>5608503
I'm not gay, I only crossdress for my boyfriend

>>5605361
ZeroRanger

>>5608503
Hellfire's alright. I preferred r-type on my snes though.

>>5604556
>imagefight
4chan?

Love Axelay.

>>5604556
You're dad is autism, that game is Hard as heck

>>5603170

is this shump shit or not

>>5603283

In soviet russia gud gets you.

>>5606116
>>5606506

Psikyo > CAVE

There. I said it!

The whole adding more bullets, slimmer the hitbox down was retarded and prevented real innovation.

>>5606116
>>5606506

Psikyo > CAVE

There. I said it!

The whole adding more bullets, slimming the hitbox down was retarded and prevented real innovation.

>>5615398

Its great. A little repetitive maybe.

>>5615442
don't forget slowing the patterns down which started with V-V, and also hardware-induced slowdown

>>5615442
Cave is much more fun to play.

>>5615532
This.
Running and sitting in safe spots is far less fun than snaking and weaving between cracks in patterns continuously. Cave is more engaging

>>5615532
cave is only fun if you're a pleb who started with and has only ever played touhou shumps before

>>5615543
Psikyo has both especially in later games, on top of more set up and resource management required with precise enemy killing windows and special weapon energy. Playing Psikyo normally is like playing Cave for score in terms of engagement desu

>>5615532
Agreed. DODONPACHI opened up my eyes to how cool shmups could be.
I still play it now and then.

>>5615442
Psikyo games look good, that's about it. Not that interesting to play.

>>5606761
cute em ups have been around since the 80s dude but that game does look like fuckin dogshit

>>5607673
thunderforce 3 is good as fuck, I actually prefer it to 4. There is a reason it got ported to the arcade and SNES

>>5616207
Normies hate psikyo, because they are too stupid to play them.

>>5615532
cave is pretty boring mostly

plus they don't feel very rewarding, except you dedicate your life to their scoring systems

either you play them for survival and feel like a total scrub, or you have to play them for years to get a somewhat decent score, it's retarded

psikyo is usually way better balanced

>>5616592
>can't 1cc any cave games yet
Working on that Mushihimesama original mode 1cc...

>>5606761

>since the saturn

sure can tell its summer in here

>>5616592
>cave don't feel very rewarding
Of course they do because the maneuvers are more fun to pull off and the challenge is just as high or higher than Psyiko, but weaving and bobbing between tight patterns feels way more rewarding and exciting than safe zone hunting in Psyiko.
>either you play them for survival and feel like a total scrub
why? This makes no sense.

>>5616745
>why? This makes no sense
For you it makes no sense, because you are obviously a scrub who is satisfied with shit clears.

Cave is either way too easy, or way too difficult. Plus the scoring systems are way too punishing.
They basically pander to total scrubs and superplayers only, while Psikyo just panders to normal decent players.

>>5616756
>getting this butt hurt cause someone critiqued Psikyo
lmao

>have to be a superplayer to like cave!
>Cave is either way too easy, or way too difficult. Plus the scoring systems are way too punishing.
git gud

>>5616802
>git gud
I am already good, in contrary to you. I have the western record in Guwange, which is arguably one of Caves hardest games.

But still, Psikyo is usually way better balanced

>>5616813
a poowange high score is nothing special, you just have to get super lucky on the catspider

get off your high horse, lad

>>5617065
>you just have to get super lucky on the catspider
I see you have no clue about this game.

>>5617081
Anyway you're still wrong, Guwange scoring is nowhere near the same level as 2-ALL clears in Ketsui or DOJ. You're too much of a pussy to loop Cave games tho.

>>5616813
Congrats for watching the nippon superplay enough times to approximately imitate it. You want a cookie now, faggot?

>>5617121
A Ketsui/DOJ 2-all is nothing but simple memorization.

Guwange scoring is wayyy harder because it's full of rng, and the execution for the shiki movement is way more subtle and complex.

>>5617137
Copying doesn't help all that much in Guwange, since it's full of rng and the execution is very difficult

kraut come discord, watching you with these retards is tragic.

krauts guwang score is shiiiiiiiiit for how long he played
no skills

>>5617285
>sjwcord
fuck off zoomer, we only allow retro services like IRC here

>>5617285
nah, your discuck circlejerk is equally retarded

i think western shmups community is cancer in general

either they are stupid retards who have no clue what they are talking about, or they are ignorant elitists who act like complete assholes

pure cancer

>>5617292
post your score and playtime if you think it's so bad

my score could have been much better already anyway, but you retards don't realize how freaking punishing guwange is for score, especially if you don't use bitch routes

>>5617292
>took 3 years to finally bop cee's score
>had to bitch out and use an easier character
>still can't consistently milk catspider very well
he should stick with trashure, cave is above his level.

dedicate your life to dabbing on kraut

>>5617314
>complains about people being assholes while he's the biggest asshole in the 4chan shumps community
the irony

>>5617357
Nah cee is the biggest douche but kraut's not too far behind him.

>>5617376
>>5617357
you only think i am an asshole because i tell you the truth, while you keep lying about me constantly

unpopular truths that trigger the western shmups community
>CAVE is overrated
>cavedrones don't play guwange cause it's too hard for them and they rather stick to copy monkeying DDP games
>2hu sucks and if you like it you are somewhat of a faggot
>community is full of attention whores like markmsgaysex who talk way too much for how little they know
>community is full of retro hipsters like retardo or trap15
>ikaruga is in fact the best shmup ever

copeblauter still at it lads

>>5617473
[x] based
[x] redpilled

>>5617473

>>5616813
>wahhh cave is too hard and too punishing
>oh BTW I have the west record for guwange (cave game known for its punishing scoring)
weird flex, gonna say its due to mental problems or false flagging

>>5617473
What seems to trigger westies is critiquing psykio for making boring safe zone hopping games. Go figure.

>>5618318
guwange is an exception for me
because the game is actually worth putting the time in

>shmupg
>company tribalism
>score vs survival whining
>win arguments by non-sequitur appeals to your high scores
Trash

Been playing my copy of Batsugun I got this week. This game is fucking amazing, the music, graphics, action, damn. Beltiana's ship is my favorite.

So far I can get to stage 4 on Special Version on one credit so I definitely gotta practice. I'm totally going to be putting my time into the this one in the coming weeks of not months.

If you ever considered getting/playing this game, fucking do it. Toaplan at its finest.

>>5618957
don't forget gossiping about namefags and farm drama

>>5619173
This and jrpg paranoia

Is that literally a guy shitting out the bullets out of his ass?

>>5617314
my discord is neither, chill place only players who know whats up and all topics welcome.

think about it seriously.

>>5603503
*silent claps*

>>5619565
nah, you are just the same cunts like on shmupg
i have enough other places to post and don't need this BS anymore

>>5619565
How many people do you have in it?
How can a newb gain access or no?

>>5619580
no we aren't, its a nice place.

>>5619584
sorry but no its not open for just anybody.

kraut trying to surround himself with newby flailer collectors so he can be king of his own island.......... sad!

>>5619565
post screenshots as proof of your chatroom having good discussion or else you're a liar

if it's anything like how shmupg was then it's 99% spam/shitposts and 1% actual shmup discussion

>shmup thread
>entire discussion is Ikaruga and moeshit bullet hells

Every single time
This board really needs a 30+ minimum age requirement

FEEVA!

>>5619907
>dude dadshit lmao

>>5619907
And whose fault is that? Notice how you'd rather bitch about "zoomers" (most are probably in their 30s already) than actually discuss Gradius in any capacity. Did you even get 1cc's or try multilooping any of the games?

>>5618979

how much did you pay, where?

>>5619937

What the hell is zoomer?

>Did you even get 1cc's or try multilooping any of the games?
Indeed I do, assuming I'm playing one of the home ports with some form of save backup for loop selection. I mean, no one has free time to dedicate to playing 10+ loops straight in a single sitting.

>than actually discuss Gradius in any capacity
All my threads were ignored and purged. The only shmup discussion /vr/ is open to fixates on verticle shooters alone. This thread is yet another testament to that.

But we can discuss Gradius if you're serious and not just baiting me for the (You)s

>>5620601
Which games have you 1cc'd? And you're saying as if it's peoples fault for not playing Gradius, why would they. The games are long, padded as fuck, a good chunk of them until Gradius IV have bullshit checkpoints, scoring's replaced by infinite loops which is cancer incarnate. Like what am I supposed to be excited about the mere presence of terrain?

>>5620664
>Like what am I supposed to be excited about the mere presence of terrain?
Yes. It's not just about dodging shit, it's about taking in the journey along the way. How can you not appreciate these games for their rich atmosphere?

>>5620675
Atmosphere alone can't sustain a series of games that rehash the same few concepts over and over, and even then I'd rather play games like Rayforce, Einhander and Under Defeat which have stronger audiovisuals and tone.

>>5620684
>a series of games that rehash the same few concepts over and over
You're describing vertical moeshit, not Gradius.

>>5620689
>would still rather rant about moeshit than argue about the pros/cons of Gradius

This must be an example of that "rent free" thing people talk about

I'll talk Gradius. Can 1cc the first. Working on the 2nd now, and it's a big step up in difficulty. Confident I can 1cc until that brutal last level, just so many tight spots that can trip you up. And the last level is probably impossible without power ups, so back to the beginning you go.

The game is more than fair, it just demands exact execution. Very satisfying when you figure out a route and strategy through a level or section that was chewing you up.

Best run so far is 1cc till the boss rush before the final level for 254000 points. Amazing game overall.

>>5620753
Which ship type? 2's more of a step up in length than a step up in difficulty unless you played Nemesis or something. 4 is the best one out of all the Gradius games I played but it's a tough one, need to get back to it soon, got raped by the moai stage last I played

It's like Cave except not completely shit.

>>5620806
Type 2. Been practicing the last level and I feel I have a reliable strategy down. Just comes down to me not choking by slamming into a wall or running into a leg of the Club boss.

>>5604605
Space Megaforce. Lots of lives, ridiculously diverse and strong powerups. I haven't 1cc'd much and I 1cc'd after maybe 10-15 hours cumulated here and there. Also works the SNES hardware very admirably.

>>5620386
$135, off a friend

scoring make you fat
>try to become super player
>sit on your ass 14 hours a day
yikes, chads simply go for 1cc

I hate shmups so much. Been playing Darius II on the genesis and I swear 90% of my deaths are because fast ships flying in from off screen in a literal wall formation and destroy my slow ass ship.

>>5622082
This game is fucking full of ships that just materialize out of the background in random places and are very hard to see too. They just instantly kill me when they're a fucking silhouette. These games are so cheap.

>>5622082
Sounds like jarpigs are more your speed, bud.

>>5622091
I just prefer actual videogames to a cheap savestate skinnerbox.

>>5621665
Scrub cope
Prom played 45mins a day and got top tier results for a white guy

What matters is consistency playing the same game a little each day for months/years.
Scrub hoppers like you don't even like shmups hence you hop and scrub clear

I really like (not) Dirty Pair

>>5622145
>Prom played 45mins a day and got top tier results for a white guy
This doesn't add up with his Guwange playtime according to him.
He also played on keyboard, which is basically cheating. Keyboard is basically like a hitbox, and even Daigo says hitboxes have massive advantages compared to sticks.

Prometheus is the most important western player of all time. Without him setting the standard, no one would have high scores.

>>5622560
He literally wrote the book on shmups.

Gradius 3 with SA-1 is so great but the boss rush is hard as fuck with no slowdown

>>5622082
You know what's faster than the enemy ships?

Your gunfire.

>>5622570
Thanks for the input soldier

>Been playing Darius II on the genesis
have you heard of mame, fren?

>>5622575
You got it. Don't give up or let the rude players get you down- you can become a superplayer too!

>>5622176
So use keyboard then, youre playing on mame or ports anyhow so who gives a fuck what controls you use

I'm shit with a keyboard but much better with a pad. I think it's because I grew up on controllers so I'm more accustomed to that method.

>>5623224
Playing on keyboard just feels wrong.

>>5622082
>Darius II on the genesis
>playing a fucking 4:3 version of a super widescreen game.
Yeah no wonder you don't see the enemies coming.

>>5623247
>>5623550
I started on keyboard and got pretty good, then I tried a pad and gave up keyboard forever, the lack of tactile feedback ruins the whole experience of gaming

>>5622145
I play 30-45 minutes a day and I don't even like shmups, but they give you a quick high and are addictive, but objectively the games are paperthin, garbage, copymonkey trash that should be avoided

>>5624357
Behold, the man whose time has absolutely no value

>>5624357
this but unironically

Why do people shit on this genre? It's a genre where you have to put in to get something back. That's a good thing. Do you want to be the virgin sucker who gets sucked-in to the game developer's plan to addict you, or do want to be the chad user, who uses the game as a means of training his determination and persistence?

>straight to the point
>exciting
>make you want to keep playing in short bursts daily

I dunno, sounds like the perfect formula for a video game. How's it supposed to be bad?

>>5624381
shmups are addicting too, they give instant gratification, fast mostly mindless action (until you get to last boss)

>>5624381
If only these games weren't designed to real you in and then eat all of your quarters, you might have a point.

>>5624397
They dont spoonfed you gratification, u have to earn it which can require a lot of persistence. And what do you mean mindless until the final boss? Hows the final boss any different? Action games are meant to be mindless anyway, theyre about intuition and muscle memory, if you have time to stop and think its a boring action game desu

Mushihimesama sucked me in with its cute setting and soundtrack

>>5624409
That's what happens when you make a game that's 12-20minutes long. The dopamine hits are instant and so are the unforseable deaths that eat your quarters and force you to practice via memorization, not really thinking or strategizing or anything deep and interesting, like this guy said >>5624421 it's just building muscle memory to deal with unforseable, unfair hits. Like get sucker punched in the back of the head .
>>5607748
superplays are so underwhelming once you know what it takes to perform those dodges, the player is just operating on auto-pilot. Scrubs get the impression that these games have lots of RNG and your reactions change the way enemies react to you, maybe like in beat em ups, but that's not the case, it's all just pattern memorization. And rote memorization and muscle memory are the lowest form of intellectual skills a human can develop.

>>5624451
Its video games u loser, why are you treating them like some supreme intelligence test? Persistence through grind is useful anyway, the grind is unavoidable so its best to embrace it and find fun in it than look down on it as something not worthy of your 400 IQ

>>5624381
>play a bit
>die
>start over
>get 5 seconds further
>die
>start over
>repeat infinitely until you beat the game in 1cc
>start new game
>cycle repeats because shmups dont reward skill building they reward memorization
let's not kid ourselves dude

>>5624489
Memorization and repetition is how you build mechanical skills, and many skills transfer from game to game its why noobs take 50 hours to 1cc games vets 1cc in under 10

>>5624485
>Persistence through grind is useful anyway, the grind is unavoidable
t jarpig

>why you speak shmups bad?!
They aren't bad their community just overhypes what's needed to play them, like how dark soulsfags overhype the difficulty of those games. Shmups are braindead easy, like you said just grind away memorizing routes like a robot.
90IQ is most you need to 2-all the hardest shmups and the reactions of a normal 50 year old woman are fine as long as you've memorized the safe routes.

>>5624489
After you have 100+ hours in shmups as a genre this doesn't really happen, you should be able to get to stage 3 or 4 pretty consistently without much trouble.
The constant dying happens near the end of shmups.
Very few shmups are hard from early stages.

>>5624489
>play a bit
>die
>start over
Ok, but what makes you want to do that? The game itself is just a game, you get a bit of a dopamine hit, but it's not really because of the game, it's because you challenged yourself and you overcame the challenge. It's not a situation like a gacha game where you get free dopamine hits all the time just by clicking the button. Simply turning up to the shmup, that doesn't get you any dopamine. Yeah it's a big part of memorisation, but there is also skill building, and skills in terms of executing on what you memorised, staying calm under pressure. It's not as if this is the greatest possible activity you can do in your life but it's a worthy activity and in no way is it entirely fatuous, it does require some virtue on the part of the player.

>>5624530
That's because shmups don't test intelligence they test mechanical skill, execution, persistence, and so on, similar to other action games. Not so easy if 40 minute games take hundreds of hours for a 2-ALL, which isn't even any kind of ceiling, it's like hard mode in other games. Stop deriving your self worth from games

>>5624539
It shouldn't happen period since practice modes and savestates are freely available. If it's as the guy says it should take him a few hours to 1cc any game if he uses those.

In Zen Buddhism, there's the concept of losing yourself in your task, a small, temporary state of egolessness that is scratching the surface of Satori (enlightenment). Athletes refer to it as being 'in the zone' where they're so immersed in the game they become the game itself so to speak.

if you skip all the memorization and shit, danmaku's can be played in this way where you kind of just lose yourself in the bullet field. its a pretty wild experience when it happens; of course this can happen in any game, but its happened the most to me when I played really intense shmups.

>shmups arent muh tru gaming!!

>click cave dangun feveron stream
>clast in chat
>cave guy tells clast to come on the show and that he could be the best shmuper in japan
yeah, i'm thinking our boy made it.

u jelly kraut?

>>5624642
people go mindless when watching movies too or fall in deep sleep, it's nothing special or "egoless" it's just distraction

>>5624705
>namefagging

>>5624706
Are you being deliberately obtuse? That's very different, what he's talking about is called flow, a well established concept that only exists when you're concentrated

>>5624713
>pop science terms jumbled with eastern gibberish
>"well established"
You can be in a state of flow doing totally egotistic and petty things, or even evil things.

Actual egolessness is more about self-sacrifice out of love, which requires awareness of self and other, not being "lost in the moment" which can happen in any game or hobby that feels engaging to you.

>>5624736

Not him but you should take a college course anon. Flow IS well established

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

>>5624747
>psychology
>science
pick one

>well established
I'm not even arguing against the idea that these states exist, I'm arguing against labeling them as egolessness and buddhism

>>5624736
Not the same guy you fucking idiot, what's "pop science" about the term flow? Unless you're one of those memers who thinks the entire field of psychology is pop science. The buddhist shit is an interpretation I guess but the point is that you're wholly focused on the task at hand, rather than being distracted which is the opposite. Besides wtf is this one true meaning of ego shit? The term has a lot of different meanings and gets even messier when being applied to buddhism you acting like some kinda expert who found the one true definition is retarded

>>5624736
Many problems here. You conflate egolessness with selflessness which is not the same.

Secondly no one said egoless action need be moral. Many samurai experienced kensho (look it up) while on the battlefield.

>>5624772

This, your definition of egolessness is really different from the Zen one, you add a lot of morality shit into it so in reality we are talking about two different things.

>>5624772
>what ego mean ? it mean different tings
the anon was equating buddhist egolessness to athletes being in the zone. so the meaning in question is specific.

>>5624819
>no one said egoless actions need to be moral
in buddhism it is a necessary connection, in zen buddhism it might not be because zen is watered down buddhism full of contradictions because it lost its roots

also in normal discourse if someone is acting without ego he can't also be acting selfishly in an immoral way, makes no sense. The ego is the driving force behind immoral and petty self-centered actions.

>>5624945
>the anon was equating buddhist egolessness to athletes being in the zone. so the meaning in question is specific.

And instead of addressing the implied meaning and proceeding with the discussion you got pissy because it doesn't jive with the common definition. Being in the zone is known to reduce self-consciousness, to the point where even acknowledging that you're in the state easily snaps you out of it. From the context it's pretty obvious that this lack of self-consciousness is what he meant. Don't be such an annoying sperg seeking attention using petty pointless arguments because you have nothing of value to add.

>>5624991
it's pretty useless to say that danmakus offer such an experience when literally anything you enjoy that's engaging can do it, a stamp collector can be in the zone while he's arranging his stamps neatly in his folders, etc.

>>5625001
What value do you expect from a person sharing his experience with the games? That said they do have some unique aspects that encourage entering flow, like the autoscroller forced pace + length forcing focus after a certain point and perfect simple controls. Dodging bullets also gives the state its own feel anyway, nothing quite like feel like you're on top of what's normally hard to read and chaotic.

How come the guy who is shit talking the genre as brain dead and easy not posting any videos of his clears and scoring runs?

>>5625001

the point of what I was saying is that this genre is more conducive to achieving this state than others, i admitted yes you can get in the zone with other things too

>>5625775
>how come the guy who shit talks hollywood movies hasn't filmed his own?

>>5625775
cause he's too busy menuing some jay-rpg

Asteroids is the greatest shmup plebians

>>5625775
This is a dumb argument - why should you expect someone to have a deep knowledge of something they're not interested in? You should play 20 JRPGs to completion before you criticize them.

>>5625775
pretty dumb question

>>5625898
His argument was pretty specific in denigrating the games as easy and brain dead in terms of challenge. Criticizing a movie on artistic merit is a subjective opinion. I don't particularly like super hero movies, but I'd never say they are to easy to make. On the other hand, he can objectively prove his opinion by showing how little he is challenged by the games by filming himself beating a reasonably difficult shooter in a few tries.

Again, his whole criticism was centered on lack of difficulty. Ex:
>Shmups are braindead easy

If someone said golf was brain dead easy, I think they should be able to back that talk up in some regard. Otherwise you're just talking shit. His argument was reductive, i.e. "Just gotta learn the patterns and have the coordination of a 50 year old woman, bro!" It's like saying all you have to do to become a good golfer is just hit the ball straight and memorize the courses.

>>5626102
dumb women have already 2-alled Psikyo shmups therefore we can't say this is a hard genre or intellectually demanding genre, it's just a matter of grinding away at rote memorization.

I guess the hardest thing about shmups is having the motivation to grind at them continuously.

>>5626149
xx women, or xy women like cream?

>>5626149
>dumb women have already 2-alled Psikyo shmups therefore we can't say this is a hard genre or intellectually demanding genre, it's just a matter of grinding away at rote memorization.
Dumb woman have also shot 65s on tough as nails courses. Go do it.

"Just a matter of practicing, bro!"

>I guess the hardest thing about shmups is having the motivation to grind at them continuously.
That's the "hardest thing" about getting good at anything. Do you think someone who has superior athleticism, hand eye coordination, and spatial intelligence is just going to walk onto baseball field and start hitting 95 mph fastballs out the park?

>>5626102
>If someone said golf was brain dead easy, I think they should be able to back that talk up in some regard.
That wouldn't prove their general claim that golf is brain-dead easy, that would only prove that they are good at it.

>>5626149
this is dumb.
>if I just had the motivation, I'd be great too. It's that easy.
stick to jarpigs.

>>5626164
>That's the "hardest thing" about getting good at anything.
Nah, because lots of games/hobbies have a fun-factor that masks the grind of practicing.
Shmups feel like work because they are work, and offer little to no reward in return.

>>5626172
>no response
>buttmadd
looks like you lost
stick to silence, arguments aren't for you

>>5626164
post video proving shmups are intellectually hard

>>5626171
>That wouldn't prove their general claim that golf is brain-dead easy, that would only prove that they are good at it.
This is a good point as well. People are naturally better at some things than other things.

His "argument" is shit because he's basically saying that once you learn the games, they're not hard. Lol. That goes for anything. As you learn something more and more, the "easier" it becomes.

His "rote memorization" criticism is also bad since the "rote memorization" of skills and tactics is important in any game or sport. I get he's trying to say that once you learn a path, the game then basically plays itself. But that's not how runs typically go. His impression likely comes from watching runs where the player perfectly executed his plan. It's kind of like watching a racecar driver set a track record and then saying, "Setting that record was just a matter of grinding away and memorization. It's not that hard. I could do it too if I grinded enough."

>>5626180
Then you simply don't enjoy the genre, which is a valid opinion, obviously.

>>5626184
you didn't have an argument. your position is basically if I cared I'd be good too so this means these games are easy.

Why is /vr/ so insecure about being shit at games? Like, it's okay to not wanna git good, but you don't have to shame and degrade others who enjoy hard games and prefer gitting gud.

>>5626220
can't handle the heat, get outta the kitchen

>>5626216
shmup difficulty is highly exaggerated, mostly because newbs who just get into the genre are overwhelmed and don't even know where to look or how to move properly

>>5626191
I never made the claim they were intellectually hard, which in any event, as another poster pointed out, doesn't prove anything even if I could somehow "prove it," as all I would prove is that the game was hard for that person.

He can easily quantify his claim though by showing us him blasting through a shooter that many consider difficult in just a few tries.

>>5626220
shumpfags deserve getting their threads shitposted because of how snobbish and inflammatory they act

am i the only one that thought the OP thumbnail was a alien bending over and shitting while a ship was shooting it

>>5626230
it's pretty dumb to use the word "difficult" to describe games where 95% of the challenge is just memorizing routes + enemy positions and 5% is not fat-fingering stupid mistakes.

>>5626242

I was instantly reminded of goatse when I saw it.

>>5626242
good imagery for a shmup thread

>>5626249
if shmups aren't difficult then how come you don't have any clears?

>>5626260
I do have clears, but even if I didn't it wouldn't help your point.

shmups seem hard to you because you probably spend less than 3hours a week playing them.

>>5626272
>I do have clears
2hu on easy mode and console compile shit don't count. :^)

>>5626225
>shmup difficulty is highly exaggerated,
Ah, so your gripe is with supposed community elitism that think they're playing the hardest video game genre known to mankind? Is that's what this is about?

And no, I don't agree with that. Difficulty of any game depends on how the designers made it as such.

>>5626260
if you find some games hard I suggest you git gud and stop whining
never heard someone bitch so much as you on this forum

>>5626249
>to describe games where 95% of the challenge is just memorizing routes + enemy positions and 5% is not fat-fingering stupid mistakes.
That's what many games and sports boil down to.
>golf is just 95% memorizing courses, club selection, and grinding away at learning mechanics, and 5% not shanking the ball or leaving putts short.
>race car driving is just 95% track memorization + being aware of opponent position and 5% not fat fingering mistakes by getting off your racing line.
>cue sports (pool, snooker, etc) is just 95% memorizing angles, ball spin and speed and 5% not fat fingering mistakes that lead to missing shots or getting out of position.

I can go on. So tell me, what special sports and games do you consider more intellectually and mechanically involving?

>>5626303
>I can go on. So tell me, what special sports and games do you consider more intellectually and mechanically involving?
JRPGs. The zenith of not just video games, but all games.

>>5626305
Alright, I'll bite. JRPGs are all memorization and no execution. Everything in the game is learning, classifying, exploring and building. You aren't necessarily developing a skill when you play a JRPG - sure, there's learning, but you don't have to worry about putting in a special move, or jumping at the right time, or dodging a bullet. You're mostly just passively experiencing the game.

>>5626286
>Ah, so your gripe is with supposed community elitism that think they're playing the hardest video game genre known to mankind?
that gripe is even dumb as the shmup community doesn't look down on other genres. they're mostly elitist about games within their own genre, which Cave fans shitposting Psykio fans, bullet hell fans shitposting non-bullet hell fans. Calling people scrubs who cant clear a certain game. Scoring vs. 1cc, and so on.

>>5626326
this. the whole shmup vs rpg thing is a recent development because of one shitposter who managed to collectively piss off the massive jrpg fanbase on /vr/

>>5626303
>all those horrible and faulty analogies
>trying this hard to get shmups accepted as legitimate sports or "difficult" games
sad

>>5626303
just play what you like retard, stop making these cringe arguments trying to convince people playing Cute Em Ups is like racing in F1.

>>5626342
no shit games are babby shit compared to real life shit like bjj or juggling, but compared to other games shmups are high tier when it comes to ability

>>5626354
>juggling comparable to bjj
you're just digging yourself deeper and deeper into nonsense

>>5626338
Sad isn't an argument, and those analogies were on point, as we can "criticize" any competitive activity as coming down to memorization and facility of execution.

we back

>>5626342
>arguments trying to convince people playing Cute Em Ups is like racing in F1.
That wasn't the argument. I won't hand hold you like one of your JRPGs, so I'll leave it you to figure out what I was implying (which was clearly stated).

>>5626363
>shmups are basically like racing in real life or playing pool
>"on point"

>>5626378
See:
>>5626378

>>5626240
So youre literally butthurt because people hurt your gamer ego. Pathetic.

>>5626342
I mean at this point you can get a decent approximation of F1 racing via simulators like iRacing which are used as training tools by pro racers. Its really not that different from getting good at shmups, its oftentimes even more grindy.

>>5626378
>>5626390
Whoops. Meant see here: >>5626372

I guess I'll spell it out. His criticism of shooters was that they are "easy" or uncompelling because they come down to memorization and not fucking up execution. That's what pretty much every sport/game comes down to, so then every sport/game on the planet is "easy" if "you just had the time to memorize tactics and practice technique."

Is beating a shooter harder than shooting under par at even a municipal course? Of course not. But I wasn't suggesting shooters or any video game are as hard as the sports I mentioned. I was illustrating how his memorization + technique description is an important element of getting good at any sport/game.

It's just a dumb line of criticism to take because of that fact.

>>5625995
Easy games don't require deep knowledge of their systems, mechanics, levels or bosses and heavy practice, so clearing easy games shouldn't be a problem at all unless they're long.

>>5626249
95% of the challenge is execution you idiot, memorization's the easy part that takes very little time in comparison. Have you even played shmups?

>>5626431
Right, but have you played them? You still can't make a solid criticism if you haven't, unless you're willing to abandon your "post your clears" bs

>>5626460
What, JRPG's? I'm not even criticizing them ITT but sure I've definitely beaten 20 over the years. It's not really the same though, the games are long and filled to the brim with padding, asking someone to play them as proof is unreasonable since that's like 50 hours of their life wasted. Shmups are 10-50 minutes long for the most part, the few that are actually easy it take no time to 1cc, most aren't that way though.

>>5626370
i wish.

Is there a name for runs in a shmup without shooting? I was screwing around in dragon blaze and realised there's a timeout for bosses, so it's theoretically possible.

>>5626784
Yes, those are called Pacifist runs.

>>5626784
pacifist runs

in ikaruga there is even achievement for this, it's called dot eater run there

>>5626481
if you think shmups are hard I suggest you practice them more until they aren't.


>>5626401
>pro-soccer is like shmups because you gotta memorize how to run and breathe and kick the ball
You don't know what your opponent is doing in soccer, that's why playing against a pro-team is so different than playing against a bunch of teenage girls.

On the other hand, shmups reveal all their obstacles to you and they never change, the only challenge is developing muscle-memory to navigate pretedermined and predictable patterns, you know your opponent and how he acts every time. Developing muscle memory isn't some difficult feat, it's just a grind, that's all. You're not doing any high level strategizing when you play shmups or thinking much at all, the more you think the more you are susceptible to crashing and dying. Shmups promote mindless auto-pilot gameplay that relies heavily on involuntary muscle memory.

The actual execution is retard easy when you look at the inputs required you don't need any fancy finger movement like in fighting games or starcraft or playing the piano, your right hand is basically stationary holding down auto-fire, while your left hand inputs slight movements left, right, up, down on the joypad or keyboard or whatever. And even very fast patterns are made trivial once your routing is memorized.

Don't compare copymonkey games like shmups to games/sports that require deep strategy and performing in constantly changing & unpredictable environments.

>>5627662
>if you think shmups are hard I suggest you practice them more until they aren't.

What, you mean like any other game? Any game becomes easy once you dedicate a huge chunk of your time to mastering it, after that the only challenge left is competing at the absolute highest levels and optimizing your performance to perfection, which shmups do have. Though even then, the absolute best of the best still struggle with dodging tlb's, because they approach the limits of human ability

>dedicating a large chunk of time to being good at single player games
why would you do this
only competitive games like fighters, fps and rts should be practiced

>>5627687
>>5627687
>What, you mean like any other game?
Yes, shmups are like any other game, that's true. Nothing special about them.
Although it's arguable that their intellectual requirement is extremely low even for normal games since they put so much emphasis on mindless, auto-pilot, muscle-memory work, kind of like those retarded rythm games.

>>5627715
no one can shit talk you when you lose in single-player games, you can have delusions of grandeur and inflate your ego very easily.

Being stuck in silver rank while other players call you a scrub and remind you how much you suck doesn't happen.

>>5627715
Because you enjoy it obviously, practicing competitive games with the hopes of making it big is just pathetic and will likely actively make your life worse.
>>5627718
That's mid session, they're action games so obviously they don't allow for deep thought in the middle of the game. The actual thinking happens between sessions, and that's where players with smart approaches shine over shitters who play without thinking.

>>5627718
>Nothing special about them.

What are you even talking about? They're simply the hardest singleplayer games, no one's saying they're the hardest games period, or the hardest activity known to man lol don't know where you even got that

>>5606761

>>5627775
>hardest single player games
post one of your replays proving this

>>5627793
Replay of what, and how would it prove anything?

shmups actually are the hardest activity known to man
prove me wrong by posting your ikaruga wr

>>5627798
so you can't prove it? then be quiet.

>>5627803
Now this is desperate

>>5627804
>wahhhhh please believe me!
no proof, no argument. no persuasion.

>>5627775
Roguelikes are the hardest SP genre actually.

>>5627842
Nah, even hard ones like ADOM can be beaten in under 100 hrs

>>5627826
Check the thread, the only way to downplay shmups difficulty is to compare it to competitive gaming and real life activities, it's a clear admission that nothing singleplayer stands a chance

>>5627662
>You don't know what your opponent is doing in soccer, that's why playing against a pro-team is so different than playing against a bunch of teenage girls.
Film analysis exists, and coaches/managers in any sport have a general idea what their opponent is going to do and how to attack/defend their opponent's gameplan. And guess what? Those reactions to unpredictable environments you speak of in sports are generally made via "autopilot," as well, since the reaction times to catch a 110mph baseball, juke a defender in soccer, etc are too small a window to perform the action while simultaneously engaging in "high level strategizing." Those actions were ingrained through, you guessed it, developing muscle memory though "grinding" in practice.

>You're not doing any high level strategizing when you play shmups or thinking much at all.
You don't do any high level strategizing in pretty much any single player video game during play. Even in the strategy games, the A.I. is too exploitable and easily predictable.

> And even very fast patterns are made trivial once your routing is memorized.
Puzzling out your routes and figuring out how to best attack a level or devising a scoring strategy is part of the fun and does take a fair amount of logic and pattern recognition, especially the more "puzzle-like" shooters like R-Type. No, it's not something only geniuses can comprehend (and no one has suggested that), but the process is by no means "brain dead," and no more or less complex than any other well designed platformer/action game. You calling them "copy monkey" games confirms that you watch runs on youtube first to learn how to approach a level before proceeding with your own runs. Furthermore, their is often multiple ways to attack a level/game that are all legitimate (and figuring out those ways that best work for your playstyle is, again, much of the fun/challenge), further calling into question your "copy monkey" description of the genre.

>>5627892
>their is often multiple ways to attack a level/game that
*there

>>5627892
>Film analysis exists, and coaches/managers in any sport have a general idea what their opponent is going to do and how to attack/defend their opponent's gameplan.
I'd like to clarify that of course any activity where you directly compete against other people is going to require more thinking, strategizing, and execution for obvious reasons.

>>5627867
so you have no proof? you just believe things on anonymous authority or what?

>>5627892
R-Type and other puzzle like shmups are actually quite easy to figure out compared to scoring oriented shmups because they lack the ambiguity. The result's binary, you either survive or you die, the depth then is simply risk minimization, trying to come up with the safest most consistent route you can find.

Scoring games aren't so simple, you need to balance risk taking with score rewards, and there's usually a resource management aspect to it, competing systems, or scenarios where there are a lot of viable strategies but no clear optimal one.

An example would be Ketsui's multiplier that gets spent when you cash in with the laser, forcing you to experiment and figure out where you want to spend it depending on enemy base values. Or Dragon Blaze's dropping coins, it's impossible to get all of them and it's impossible to kill everything with the dragon shot, which requires you to pick the right enemy formations to go for, and the right positioning to pick up as many coins. This can get extremely ambiguous, to the point where you won't match community built routes on your own which unfortunately means that copying them is pretty normal.

>>5627662
>the only challenge is developing muscle-memory to navigate pretedermined and predictable patterns,

lol. does this guy even like videogames? this describes almost every single player genre in existence aside from procedurals, which really aren't all that unpredictable either and usually just minor variations on the core level design.

>>5627910
He's a brainlet, he's copy-monkeying his opinions too.

>>5627867
>>5627848
Go play chess vs a highest tier AI, nearly impossible even for the best players in the world, who have 20, 30, 40 years of training under their belt, full time, 8hours a day+ world practice and studying under coaches and prodigies.

You can crush nearly any "hard" shmup, by yourself, in 100-300hours of mindless grinding and a bit of copying replays, if you're a normal person with normal reflexes and at least 95IQ. Fuck outta here with this garbage.

Not talking about high scores, cause that's multiplayer. I'm talking about crushing the hardest shmups which aren't hard at all but brain-dead easy, for spergs. Like you.

I could name dozens of "single player" games that put these shit tier genre to shame, but I won't. play chess vs a strong AI and get crushed in 9 moves, even after 10,000 hours of intense practice and study and 150IQ won't save you either.
Go and see.

>>5627930
>hurr every competitive game is a copy-monkey fest like shmups
cope. think for 5 seconds before you post again.

>>5627925
Don't disagree with any of that. R-Type and the like are self-contained in the sense that they are meant to be beaten, so you can move on to another game, whereas the scoring shooters, you can obviously spend years with them in figuring out ways to forever improve your score if you so desire.

>>5627938
Chess isn't a genre you idiot, exceptions exist and games with a small possibility space can be made nearly impossible with ease.

>You can crush nearly any "hard" shmup, by yourself, in 100-300hours of mindless grinding and a bit of copying replays

That's blatantly false, even vets who have thousands of hours of shmups experience can't do this with the harder games, despite using savestates and checking replays.

>Not talking about high scores, cause that's multiplayer.

No it's not, you can't even qualify for Cave loops without decent scoring.

>>5627939
>cope. think for 5 seconds before you post again.
Read before greentexting. I obviously said single player games, dipshit. Name the single player oriented genres that put the genre to shame. I have a feeling your finger is inching toward the J. Go on...

>>5627939
You can always just slowly develop your own routes, it's not like there's money involved in shmups competition.

what is it about shmups that make people feel inferior and seethepost like this? >>5627938

shmupchads run this bitch, bow down to the kings

>>5627947
>b-board games aren't a genre
>chess doesn't count
nice goalposts


>That's blatantly false, even vets who have thousands of hours of shmups experience can't do this with the harder games, despite using savestates and checking replays.
yet a jap vet 2-alled WL in 2months, LMAO, widely considered one of the top 3 hardest shmups.

Fuck
Outta
Here

>>5627954
>yet a jap vet 2-alled WL in 2months, LMAO, widely considered one of the top 3 hardest shmups.

>>5627954
>yet a jap vet 2-alled WL in 2months, LMAO, widely considered one of the top 3 hardest shmups.

Meaningless without raw hours, he could have been playing 12 hours every single day for all you know which would put it far, far above your dumb estimate

>>5627954
>muuuuuh japs
why haven't you crushed it yet? or was the one that got crushed...... you

>>5627954
>nice goalposts
you actually moved the goalposts in citing competition against the most advanced chess playing A.I. Someone could easily make a shooter where <.120 millisecond (the human threshold) reaction times are necessary to beat it, meaning no human could beat the game even though it's technically beatable. Chess is also a multiplayer game, even if the A.I. isn't technically a human being.

>>5627959
Because single player games are a joke.

>>5627952
A better question is why you come here seeking our approval and respect for a dead genre whose difficulty is overhyped.

>>5627952
Yeah I don't know either, seems like they're deeply insecure and derive their sense of self worth from games. Getting called shitters is just too much for their ego to handle

>>5627959
Proof? If that is true that is impressive but also hilarious how hard these guys are losing against /vr/

>>5627969
>A better question is why you come here
The majority of video games are single player, especially retro games. Better question is why are you here and not on some other board for sophisticated and talented MLG pros such as yourself.

>>5627969
>A better question is why you come here seeking our approval and respect for a dead genre whose difficulty is overhyped.

Nobody wants your approval, in fact if you left nobody would care. You on the other hand come to shmups threads to try and push your "tr00 hardcore gaming" nonsense, showing bitter insecurity

>>5627968
>using imaginary, non-existent shmups to argue about the genre in general
>being this shook up

shmupfags btfo yet AGAIN
sad!

>>5627986
Think he has this shirt?

>>5627992
>memeing because he knew his argument was shit.

>>5628002
No doubt, cringy gaming-as-identity clothes and poor personal hygiene, the mark of a 1337 pro gamer

>>5628006
>if you chess (which does exist) I'll just use this made up shmup that doesn't exist
kek you played yourself retard

Why are you guys doing this? /shmupg/ and now here too, why do you wanna kill any shmup threads with constant shitposting?

>>5628012
>I'll just use a multiplayer game in a singleplayer game discussion. I'll also reference the unbeatable A.I. you have to play against in this multiplayer game. That'll show em how easy shooters are!

>>5628015
>Why are you guys doing this? /shmupg/
Wait, they were shitposting about shooters being easy and shit over there, as well?

>>5628023
Yup, non-stop for months

>>5628018
>chess vs ai is multiplayer
>shmup vs ai is singleplayer

lol all these shmupfags calling out my skills. see me in Madden '09 (top 20 US player which means the world) or unreal tournament where I took fatal1ty to the limit in a regional tournament despite having little interest in the game. just played in it because it was close and for fun.

>>5628029
Wait we're including cheating bots now? I mean in that case forget chess, Tetris is the hardest game ever made since it's not that humans can't beat it, it's that they will never beat it.

>>5628032
>madden
>fps
holy cope

>>5628032
Evidence or fuck off

>>5628029
the chess A.I. simulates a superhuman opponent. the A.I. in a single player game like a shooter or platformer does not and is not designed to do so for what should be obvious reasons.

>>5628039
madden is basically speed chess in videogame form shmupfag. you cope.

>>5628045
lmfao yeah that's why you see shmupfags come to sperg out in madden threads......

>>5628024
Pretty pathetic.

1v1 me in halo

>chess doesn't count it's not a game!
>ok it's a game but it's always multiplayer!
>ok against the AI it's not multiplayer, but it's cheating!
>ok it's not cheating but it's really HARD!

the cope in this thread is reaching critical levels of yikes

one day you will learn to accept shmups as the apex of gaming

>>5628058
>he thinks madden is speed chess
>he once lost to a 1337 pro gaymer
>he has "skills."

>>5628061
>everyone against me is the same person
it's time to take a break

>>5628056
i can see you little eekaruga ship

*wheeze* h-how can shmupfags disrespect pro gamers like me

I spent 10,000 hours playing madden, ff14 and team fortress 2, they don't know the meaning of true hardcore gaming

.

Which shmups (preferably available on switch) are most accessible for beginners? I'm loving dragon blaze, but it's pretty damn fast in the later stages moving into second loop. A reasonable all-clear would be fun to attempt.

>>5630461
Aero Fighters games. Zero Gunner 2 too now that they removed the second loop lmao

Is it okay to like shmups casually? What are some good ones that isn't like the shit you guys nerd off about.
My favourites are Xenon 2, Submarine Attack & some WW2 coop game idk the name of.

>>5631440
>Is it okay to like shmups casually?
Yeah, probably.
>What are some good ones that isn't like the shit you guys nerd off about.
Maybe checkout some PC Engine games?

shump

>>5628064
Mein full cock.

Well, why aren't you?

>>>/v/464673375

>>5634563
Because I like games with good gameplay. The fact that jarpigs have to start resorting to tits & ass just proves JRPGfags don't actually like playing the games, they just jack off to the waifus and self insert themselves into their shitty anime stories.

Did /vg/ take over or something?

>>5603170
MADE THIS WALLPAPER

>>5635564
Pretty cool.