/vr/ - Retro Games

That's pretty badass, but you forgot the most important one
>rejects itself
now THAT's next-level gangsta

normal maps are overrated
distorted backgrounds and quadrilateral polygons are the future

Wasn't it Microsoft that shot down a partnership that Sega offered them in the early '00s?

SoJ giving insane suicidal orders to SoA is one of the great case studies in how not to run a business

>>5601982
*UV maps
whoops, I tried to sound tech savvy but made an oopsie, I look like an ass now

>>5601980
You can blame the Japs for that.
>>5601983
Naw, vise versa.
>>5601984
This, kek
>tfw even Japs in the business world are kamikazes

>>5601980
Why should early 1990s Sega have wanted a deal with Sony? They had already done home consoles unlike Sony (previously an MSX licensee at best), they had already done consumer 3D unlike Sony, and they had already even done multiple revisions of a CD-based system.

>>5602027
Because Sony wanted in on the gaming cash cow. Stubborn ass Sega should’ve been honored after Nintendon’t turned them down.

>Silicon Graphics chips
?

>>5602049
Its fair to think Sega wouldn't have trusted Sony. From what I read of certain anon posts they had good reason to not trust them as well.

>>5602181
https://segaretro.org/History_of_the_Sega_Saturn/Development#Silicon_Graphics

>>5601980
>>rejects Sony hardware
So did Nintendo
>>rejects Microsoft hardware
And nothing of value was lost
>>rejects Silicon Graphics chips
Sega evaluated it twice and both times they were garbage

Any other questions?

>>5601980
rejected 3DFX hardware

>>5601980
You forgot:
>Worked with Lockheed to get the most advanced 3d tech available at the time

>>5601980
sega was based+redpilled

>>5602245
did people even know how to develop for that

>rejects Microsoft hardware
When?

>>5602294
I could tell you about it, but it's not retro.

>>5602049
>Because Sony wanted in on the gaming cash cow.
So? Look at it from Sega's point of view. Sony gets a cut for doing nothing Sega hasn't already been able to do themselves.

You're armchair managing with the aid of hindsight.

>>5602283
Yes?

>>5602243
That was the best move imaginable, 3DFX was a dead end. PowerVR was a far better piece of hardware.

>>5602238
>Sega evaluated it twice and both times they were garbage
That's why Nintendo took a bite then the N64 was a huge success and the Saturn flopped, right? idiot

>>5601984
didn't SoA make the 32X like a month before Saturn was announced?

>>5601980
It’s well documented fact that SEGA is and has almost always been run by brainlets.

>>5602621
>32X
IIRC SoJ wanted a new Mega Drive model with better visual capabilities (improved palette), but SoA suggested them to make it a new more powerful add-on instead of a "Mega Drive Pro".

>>5602614
>the N64 was a huge success
Anon, I...

>>5602771
Go on... careful...

>>5602771
It made more profit for Nintendo than the PS1 did to Sony.
Not having an optical drive helped, so they weren't selling it at a loss, and in the long run, it was better for the consumer too, since most launch N64 still work, the same can't be said about early PS1s

>>5602690
SCD and 32X killed the consumer's trust.
Public opinipn on Sega went from cool boys to corporate money milkers within the timeframe of a year.
They should have released the Multi Mega as a standard Model 2 if they wanted a proper stopgap system.

>>5602802
PS1 outsold N64 3 to 1

>>5602818
I know, that thing sold like hotcakes (not to mention many people had to buy the system twice or more times because of disc drive issues).
But Nintendo still made more profit off N64 than Sony did with PS1.

>>5602325
If you are implying that Xbox hardware was offered to sega then id like to see proof

>>5601984
Nah, SOA was fucking cancer.
They killed the Saturn in the US.

To this day it disgusts me how the SOA branch had no respect whatsoever for the Jap development teams and did whatever they pleased.
Fuck them for Mohawk Sonic, Fuck them for changing Ristar's story. Bunch of autistic assholes.

>>5602802
>It made more profit for Nintendo than the PS1 did to Sony.
LMAO
Fucking Nint0ddlers.

>>5602827
>But Nintendo still made more profit off N64 than Sony did with PS1.
you mean off SNES (still selling well up to 1996), GB / GBC and Pokemon

>>5602874
Not even a console warrior (and if anything, I was more of a Sega guy back in the day).
It's true though, Sony didn't made as much profit (net profit) as Nintendo with the 64. It's kinda easy to figure out why anyway, I already said the main reason, N64 doesn't have a disc drive, so they didn't sell the system at a loss. Plus N64 had virtually no piracy, while PS1 piracy was rampant.

>>5602376
It's true, PowerVR2 was powerful enough to make the decision easy to pass up any 3dfx solution, which at the time would have been between Voodoo2 and Voodoo3 in power. But I think Sega's logic wasn't based on 3dfx being on a dead end route (which nobody would be able to tell until the eventual wait for Voodoo3's horrible successor products), instead I think they saw that 3dfx didn't have their own fabs and therefore couldn't guarantee volume. PowerVR had a deal with a Japanese company, NEC, who could guarantee volume for them. Look at what happened after the Sega deal fell through: 3dfx bought STB for their manufacturing and it helped lock them into making compromised chipsets because of cost concerns and sealed their doom.

>>5602813
In hindsight, a stopgap system of any kind would have been a waste of resources. They'd already had one at the height of Sonic mania (Sega CD) and it largely failed even in the US, and they should have learned from that. But even if Sega was convinced they had to fend off Jaguar (fuckin' lel), even releasing the CDX earlier wouldn't have been anything new, since the X'Eye had already been released and nobody people cared. Neither SoJ nor SoA had the right idea, it would turn out. Bottom line though is that 32X should have never happened.

>>5602860
Nothing you said compares to bad business decisions

>>5601980
>Shoves games to platforms they didn't create.
It dates back to that, it's why the Master System floundered in NTSC markets.

>>5602986
>Sega makes their own consoles
>they port their first party titles to competing platforms

>Sega no longer has their own hardware
>they keep their games exclusive

>>5602895
But you're wrong as hell since carts cost far more to manufacture.

>>5602898
Bad business decision like SOA not allowing pretty much any JRPG on the US in the Saturn for years due to thinking that the genre is not popular and then the PSX blowing them the fuck out.

>>5603081
Not him, but Nintendo charged publishers for the price of carts and games were more expensive because of it. Nintendo made money from that.

>>5602986
>it's why the Master System floundered in NTSC markets
Both the Master System and TG-16 failed because of Nintendo's illegal bullshit with various developers.

>>5603086
Still not as much money as Sony made from selling more software on average.
I'm sorry to break it to you but if you think Nintendo 64 made more money than the PlayStation you're delusional.

>>5603094
Anon's point was that Nintendo lost less/made more per hardware and software unit sold, and yours is that Sony's sales outscaled Nintendo's. You're both right.

And I just jumped in to correct the post about the price of carts having any effect on Nintendo's own per-unit costs, I never argued that N64 made overall more money than PS.

>>5603081
>>5603094
I guess I just touched your sensibility, a Sony fan, perhaps?
I don't really care much about 5th gen in general anyway, but yeah Sony didn't actually made as much profit off PS1, since they threw a LOT of money in not only manufacturing but also advertising out the ass (even offering third parties free ads). Their strategy was smart anyway, they wanted to dethrone Sega and they did. But it costed them a lot of money - money that they could spend anyway so no big deal for Sony.

>>5603108
The formula works if you're rich enough and your plan is long-term enough. Original Xbox lost billions of dollars for Microsoft. They bought their market position.

>>5603115
PS2 is still the best console ever made imo

blame this fucker

>>5603123
PS2 was atrocious unless you had a hard-on for generic jarpig garbage.

>>5601980
Unlike Nintendo, Sega is run purely by business people doing businesses.

>>5603123

>>5602621
soj forced them to make it because they were scared of the atari jaguar and thought they needed to respond to it quickly.

>>5602802
>it was better for the consumer too
only delusional bingtendies would argue that paying more for games and having less genres to choose from is "better for the consumer."

>>5602614
>created a huge pile of garbage games that ran at 12 FPS
>lost to Saturn in Japan where it counts
>huge success
K.

>>5601980
>Sony
this one's reasonable with hindsight
>Microsoft
there's nothing really wrong with the DC as we got it, and regarding talks over DC compatibility in the Xbox, I can't really imagine that having ever gone through
>SGI
this one is monstrously stupid -- Model 2 was successful due to finding a manufacturer of high-end graphics chips, and their in-house stuff was far weaker in comparison.
of course, Model 2 probably only happened because Yu Suzuki had so much god damn pull (there's a reason he was able to make Shenmue in the middle of Sega bleeding money), Sega really wanted to do things in-house

>>5602238
>Sega evaluated it twice and both times they were garbage
Compared to the Saturn as released, fuck no. Sega's higher ups were looking for an excuse not to do it.

>>5604423
>created a huge pile of garbage games that ran at 12 FPS
Nintendo choked the machine's ability to texture in the name of cutting costs and enforced high-quality rendering (read: smoothing, z-buffering, etc) over performance.

>>5604423
>>lost to Saturn in Japan where it counts
actually sold more software than saturn.
anyway saturn=n64>ps1
Back in the day ps1 was good because cheaper and wide catalogue, but now you realize it's mostly bad ports, loading times-riddled RPGs and bad 3D games with incorrect perspective

>>5603441
>>5603435
>never have one

>>5605710
the saturn was garbage

>>5605716

>>5604423
>Japan
>where it counts

>>5605710
*wheeze*

>>5606091
>*wheeze*
Faggot. Also nice chart fag, how long did it take for you to make it?

>>5604423
>in Japan where it counts
>implying ¥ is worth more than £ & $
So no, PAL & NTSC is where it counts

>>5602802
Dogshit, N64 had a dismal library and was worse for consumers and publishers

>>5603123
Nope, original Xbox was the best console of 6th gen if you were into online gaming instead of menu simulators (jarpigs) or scooping up goop/ghosts

>>5605710
>Back in the day ps1 was good

Playstation had nothing in 1995 that looked as good as DKC2 or Yoshi's Island on the SNES. Once the 64 came out, with 4 player local multiplayer on like half the library, I kind of forgot the system even existed.

In America, the N64 was very popular, for good reason.

>>5606348
>Playstation had nothing in 1995 that looked as good as DKC2 or Yoshi's Island on the SNES. Once the 64 came out, with 4 player local multiplayer on like half the library, I kind of forgot the system even existed.
>my shitty personal conjecture defines the market

The absolute state of Bingtards

>>5606391
There's no "conjecture". Everyone played N64 when they hung out in the late 90s. No one bought a Playstation multitap (not that anything supported it).

console warriors need to have sex.

>>5601983
nope. ms wanted to buy sega strait up and sega rejected their proposal, so ms paid them for a handful of exclusives.

>>5602238
>And nothing of value was lost
hardly, with ms' money they wouldn't be producing throw away titles like mario & sonic at the olympics and all those bad sonic games. in fact had they become a 2nd party developer, you'd already have shenmue 3,4,5,etc. so yeah, nothing of value was lost... just the last two decades, you clueless fuck.

>>5602771
>Not loving the 64

>>5606701
>not loving the Saturn

>>5606584
Yeah bro, just like how they took care of Rare... oh wait, you're retarded.

>>5606401
I literally know just one guy who had an N64 and GC growing up.

>>5601980
You can't tell what Sega was thinking with their consoles. They had no transparency.

>>5602829
Other way around, they wanted to put Dreamcast compatibility to the Xbox, but it raised the costs so they axed the idea (apparently it only would have cost $50 per unit, but they were already losing $100 on every machine).

>>5601980
>Never the company
>Never drew a dime
>Never had a good game before 2005 and even then was carried by vastly superior games
>Never put anyone over
>Never had the balls to step out their Japan comfort even when Microsoft threw millions at them when the company needed it
>Instead, allowed themselves to get worked into a shoot by pachinko money marks
>Main evented the lowest drawing console generation
>Tanked the buyrate of Saturn outside Japan so hard the company quit the console business after Dreamcast
>Was barely ever supported by anyone because the company was never a big enough deal
>So stubborn it refused outside help from others when developing Saturn's architecture
>Only the 6th best arcade developer
>Only the 7th best console manufacturer
>Only the 9th best gaming mascot
>Only the 5th best rhythm game developer
>The company's mascot, Sonic the Hedgehog, was utterly BTFO by everything else and achieved nothing notable unless fans have 100% creative control on him
>Japanese and American branches constantly headbutts each other in backstage politics all up the ass
>Needed misleading performance enhancement advertising to beat SNES
>Bought Atlus, the company's only positive impact on the business, purely for the crossovers
>Spent the rest of company's life carried by weebs and nostalgiafags
>Is the gaming equivalent of that one insufferably mediocre developer whose sole professional """""""achievement"""""" is staying in the same shitty business for years
>The biggest impact the company had on the business was sitting around in the back and telling one of their regional divisions to job to each other.

>>5601980

Letting the Sony Psychopaths in would have ended with SEGA being closed by SONY a few years after. Very bad move.

>>5608623
are you off your meds?

>>5601980
*AHEM*
$299

>>5609335
the fact that sega never recovered from that and now most of their games are sony exclusive is really fucking humiliating

>>5602860
Anyone who uses any form of the words "respect" and "japan" in the same sentence should kill themselves

>>5609684
I concur. This fool should definitely anne hiro >>5609684

>>5601980
>Make SANIC hollywood movie to kick pikachu's ass

Sega is MAD lad.

>>5608623
>got some fag to type all of this shit

>>5604185
>Muh CDs
Sega CD should have saved Sega if not for all those shitty FMV games.

>>5609859
Having to buy an add on is stupid as fuck, especially in those days, why would your parents buy you a Sega CD when there was more and better games that ran on the regular SEGA?
PlayStation did it right cause you only had to buy one thing

>>5609635
Nah, Sega was born to be two things, an arcade powerhouse and a third party, like Namco. The success of Mega Drive outside of Japan wasn't the norm for them, that was extreme overachieving. Better to put their games on every platform instead of just their own.

>>5609859
Genesis was a success without Sega CD, Sega didn't need saving yet when it came out. The FMV crap sure did help it flop though.

>>5602860
>They killed the Saturn in the US.
what killed the saturn in the us was the 32x and the early surprise saturn launch. both of those decisions were forced by soj.
the 32x was a kneejerk response to soj's irrational fear of the atari jaguar, of all things. then, soa was forced to launch the saturn early in north america because soj was panicking over how the playstation was eating into the saturn's early momentum in japan. this ended up completely torching sega's relationships with key retailers, such as k-b toys, who were left out of it.
i really don't get this new narrative that soj was somehow blameless in sega's fall from grace. they were incompetent fools who made stupid reactionary decisions.

>>5609904
Yeah, because they totally should have put Arcade Games on SNES. Retard.

>>5609928
>i really don't get this new narrative that soj was somehow blameless in sega's fall from grace.
Literally no one says that though.

>>5609948
lol

>>5609948
I'm not even that anon and your post triggers me. It's like you're forcing yourself into retardation.
>Sega did it with like 50 titles
>Nintendo can't do the same

>>5603427
Who the fuck is that?

>>5609974
Hayao Nakayama, president of Sega during most of their console run. Copying this passage from his wikipedia page (although it's a bit opinionated):
>Sega's release of the 32X, turning down Sony's offer to work with Sega to make a new console instead of releasing the Sega Saturn, and the surprise launch of the Sega Saturn were all his decisions. Nakayama based his decisions for Sega of America off of how Sega consoles were doing in Japan. The reason why the Sega Genesis was successful against the Nintendo Entertainment System was because Nakayama let Tom Kalinske do what he needed to do to obtain the public's interest in the Genesis. Nakayama stepped down from CEO of Sega of Japan before the launch of the Dreamcast, but by the time Sega could fix the damage done by Nakayama, it was too late. Sega was losing money fast. In order to avoid bankruptcy, they pulled out of the console market and became a third party developer for Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo.

>>5609974
The Jew of Japs

>>5610003
Ouch, that page is stub-level junk

>>5609971
>Sega did it with like 50 titles
Huh?

>>5609964
Yeah, playing Gradius 3 on SNES is pretty funny to watch.

>>5609971
Well he thought I was saying Sega never should have gone through their console history instead of talking about their current status. I was just laughing at how offended he got. But really once the writing was on the wall that Sony and Nintendo were destined to be the big dogs of the industry no matter what Sega did anymore (pre-Microsoft), the time was right for them to become a strict third party publisher. That's why I don't consider it humiliating for Sega to be publishing on Sony or Nintendo or anyone else as the post I replied to was saying. It was just the right business decision for them.

>>5610931
>Muh gradius 3

>>5602802
>It made more profit for Nintendo than the PS1 did to Sony.

So? There's a thing called market share. Sometimes companies take a profit loss to expand their product to more people (see: Amazon).

Nintendo lost almost all their market share with the N64 and never gained it back.

>>5609859
Sega CD wasn't going to save Sega. In fact, it was the beginning of the end.

First, add-ons are stupid.

Second, add-ons that cost the same as a new system (like an SNES) are really, really stupid.

Third, Sega failed to do what Sony did with PSX - they didn't build up any core franchises that you would get excited about on its next system.

>>5606584
>ms wanted to buy a Sega straight up
Would have been retarded, Sega was still in its prime and not even six years removed from mega success with sonic 3, and the equity of the sonic franchise. The problem was their awful bungling of these assets, but I don't blame them for not wanting to get bought out and for not handing over what, for the entire decade, was one of the biggest cash cow franchises in all of pop culture.

Can someone who was alive back in the day tell me if not getting Castle of Illusion was a big deal for SNES owners? Because this game is gorgeous. The Genesis had so many eye candy titles. Ristar is another underrated gem.

>>5611382
>reddit-spacing
>thinks the Sega CD wasn't cool
fuck off nigger

>>5611517
I don't remember that game being a big deal for snes owners. Eventually, they got the Magical Quet trilogy, which I suppose covered their need for Mickey platformer, although I believe Castle of Illusion is a better game.

I remember enjoying the game quite a lof back then, but I admit that after Sonic and Mario World were released, pretty much everybody forgot about Castle of Illusion.

I don't think Sonic is a good game, and I've played it near to completion.

>>5603123

>>5611695

i almost shat in the woods once, then i pulled my pants back up

>>5611771
this guy gets his ass out in the woods

>>5611382
>Third, Sega failed to do what Sony did with PSX - they didn't build up any core franchises that you would get excited about on its next system.

I was never into the PSX, but I clearly remember the PS2 launch. Twisted Metal Black, Metal Gear Solid 2, and other "core" Sony franchises weren't around for months.

>>5602802
kek, N64 cartridges cost roughly 10x more to manufacture than PS1 games
$30 vs $3 for cost - where were these higher profits exactly?

>>5612076
A new N64 game at the time retailed for $69.99-74.99. A new PSX game retailed for $39.99-49.99.

>>5611527
>forcing devs to split time between the old system and the new system
>shitty nogames launch for the Saturn
SegaCD was the beginning of the end
>reddit spacing
You can't even reddit space on reddit you fucking dumbshit