/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5561403
Yes.
But if you're just a casual gamer it's probably not worth the money. PVM is only recommended to get the most out of your retro game collection.

No, it's a meme. PVMs are designed for examining game art assets and look way too sharp.

PVM is unauthentic

Yes, but if you shelled out more than a hundred bucks for one you're either lazy or stupid.

>>5561421
>>5561421
Where do you find cheap ones? You can get consumer trinitron tubes in good condition with remote for as low as 0 but I never seen a PVM for sale other than online and the price is always 100+ shekels.

>>5561432
call and email every local broadcasting station and electronic recycling plant in your area. Every single one. Offer some cash for it.


I've barely been searching and got three 20" pvms for free, then another two 20", three 14", and an ikagemi 9" from an electronic recycler for $120 bucks.

Also don't buy one online if you can help it, not unless it's local pick up. Where you at? Maybe I can hook you up if you're that desperate.

>>5561442
>call and email every local broadcasting station and electronic recycling plant in your area
I feel like they're just going to tell me to fuck off I I do that, I live in Paris and there's just no local business I can call asking specifically for old TV screens It's all massive companies that deal with electronic recycling.

>>5561432
If you learn about RGB transcoding and learn to use the service menus those consumer Trinitrons will be 95% identical to a PVM and may well have a fraction of the hours on them

>>5561468
>I feel like they're just going to tell me to fuck off I I do that
That's just the price you pay for cheap as free PVM monitors.
Honestly I don't think they will though. Most recycling companies make nickles for CRTs and here you come saying you'll drop a dollar per inch. I think they'd certainly be interested, especially since you are offering to haul it away for free.
I still say call the recycling center anyway. Send an email with a picture of what kind of monitor they would be looking for so whoever reads it can say "hey I've seen that around here before" instead of "I'd really rather not do the research into what the hell he is talking about". Call after a few days to see if they even read it. If that doesn't work, you might have to branch out further. Decide how far you are willing to travel for this and how much it's worth to you now.

>>5561403
No. A consumer set with Svideo is 99% as good. Remember that retro games are 240p at average, the extra resolution of a PVM goes to waste. They’re a meme.

>>5561403
>better
Only if you like the way games look on them more than on a consumer CRT TV, and it is not universal opinion to like them more on PVMs. I have one, but I prefer a slightly softer picture with less pronounced scanlines much more than the typical PVM look, and I use my TVs a lot more because of it.

>>5561403
>PVM-20M4U
>BVM 20L5

WHICH ONE IS IT

It's personal preference. Yes they are much better quality and better built, but is the difference that noticeable, or worth the extra trouble.

Just watch My life in gaming's side by side comparison videos. Isn't that how the PVmeme started anyway?

>>5561403
No.

>>5561403
Yes. Literally studio quality hardware for a very few chosen ones.

>>5561403
No, just get a trinitron

>>5561409
fpbp

composite is better on consumer's though, blur makes up a lot for low quality signal

>>5561468
I forgot to mention, you have to be willing to do some repair work if you want one cheap. you're quite unlikely to find one in perfect condition for cheap. Ask a friend with soldering skills to help you recap the main board and it shouldn't be a problem. or learn to solder yourself using practice kits and such. don't just wing it on the pvm.

>>5561558
No, they didn’t start it but they definitely added to the idea that they have value.

>>5561442
help me anon :<

>>5561636
Unless you're willing to travel to the new england area there isn't a whole lot more I can do.

>>5561654
Near Rhode Island?

>>5561661
Southern NH. It's all relatively close.

>>5561403
For 4:3 movies and anime, yes. For retro gaming, no. As an owner of multiple pvm and a bvm, they look to sterile for retro and a large consumer set is more enjoyable. Remember rgb does not equal pvm. You can get good signals to many consumer sets. Also, no shit, s video is about 95% as good as rgb.

>>5561403
that dude selling them on ebay is trying to corner the market and drive the prices up.

>>5561403
Lmao sometimes I feel bad for all that guys getting ripped off on ebay.

Wew lad. That's a hefty price.

Just get a regular CRT.
Hell, even composite on my old family's shitty BEKO CRT doesn't look THAT bad if you sit decently away from it.

Its certainly more than playable, and I say that after using my own PVMeme for quite some time now.

>>5561403
No they're worse. They're too sharp for low res games. They require custom cables, they're tiny, they're ridiculously expensive etc. They're monitors built for studios to scrutinise video and bring out flaws in your image. They're not meant for general use.
They're only popular because 15 years ago people were throwing them away for nothing. You're way too late mate, that ship has sailed.

A consumer tv set will be 100 times cheaper, 10 times larger and have normal inputs like svideo and component. You can get lossless RGB via component input with a cheap transcoder. In the end you have a way larger screen, for a fraction of the cost, with better image quality for gaming.

>>5561543
Says 20M4U on the back. Why did he put 20L5 in the title?

PVMs are basically the 240SX of retro games. They were overly abundant and useless machines, so abundant and worthless that they were sold for cheap, if not given away, fairly reliably. Then people started obsessing over these shitboxes and taking #foodporn pictures of them, PVMs playing Japanese famicom games and 240s being draped in Japanese letters, and then people were starting to be interested in them. Because these are 20+ year old pieces of hardware, there are bound to die out, but at least no one's crashing PVMs to extinction like the 240SX. Then the boomers come along, both the baby and 30 year old variety, and jack up the prices because they haven't ruined enough. So that's why you have UP FOR SALE IS AN ORIGINAL NUMBERS MATCHING PVM WITH ONLY 480K HOURS ON IT AC BLOWS ICE COLD 1999 NO LOWBALLERS NO TIREKICKERS I KNOW WHAT I GOT constituting so many listings.

>>5561924
Sup /o/

>>5561924
Unlike 240s, PVMs are actually high-quality items, just overhyped.

PVMs are the Alienware of CRT tvs.

>>5561403
No dont fall for the pvmeme 14" wankfest. Buy a normal consumer tv like the developers intended.

>>5561946
Actually dont waste money buying someones shitty consumer tv. Find one for free on the side of the road. Free tvs are the best.

>>5561952
>settling for just free
I've literally been paid to take away a perfectly working FD Trinitron.

>>5561403
>Are PVMs really that much better than regular consumer CRTs?
Yes and no. If you want to pay that much for a used CRT, you deserve that increase in quality. For the average tightwad and semi-casual nerd a good CRT with S-video and component is a very enjoyable experience with most units costing less than $40. It all depends on what you want to spend and when. A 14" CRT is small, and 20" BVMs are expensive.

>>5561403
No. It looks identical or worse to any consumer model of Trinitron

The only CRT TV I have left is this (not my TV, but same mode) one from the 70s.

The only CRT TV I have left is this (not my TV, but same model) thing from the 70s.

>>5562386
kawaii desu ne

>>5562368
>>5561904
You can really tell the sour grapes apart from the informed posts of pros and cons

>>5562395
english, please

>>5562401
it is cute

>>5562386
I couldn't even imagine just how shitty the picture is on that.

>>5562408
french?

>>5562415
Hey at least it's color which in that era also usually meant a finer screen too. I'm not sure who was manufacturing TVs for Sears then.

>>5562426
They're rebadged Panasonics. Panasonic TVs of this period all had black and cream cases and a headphone jack, which on this particular model is on the side.

>>5562415
I can tell you it's not a 2005 Wega.

There's a PVM at a local antique place, but when I turn it on I get a test pattern and a loud high pitched screech that volume can't affect. I have no idea how to fix these, is it worth grabbing or should I just leave it?

>>5562396
>ABUHBUHBUH sour grapes!!
get a load of this tryhard. nobody's dying to get their hands on it like you did

PVMs are just liquidated assets that flooded the consciousness of the retro community YEARS AGO. like before you even got here. people who didn't need it got hyped up on something there's literally no reason to own

Just picked up this JVC i'Art today for free. Image quality on these is supposed to rival PVM's. Just be on the lookout for good consumer sets. I have a 14inch PVM but you can find some good TV's for free if you are patient.

>>5562386
Rare color. I'm jealous.

>>5561403
If you know how to RGB mod and can properly calibrate your shit? No they're not that much better. In fact I don't prefer them to an RGB modded consumer set. You get less distortion with PVMs thanks to their higher quality power supplies (something that can easily be mitigated to some degree on consumer sets by turning down the white peak) and generally higher quality components all around, and they're usually way better for video content. In general they're just a far more accurate display, but I think they're unironically soulless and clinical for retro gaming.

PVMs (a good one that costs about $1000 not the free or cheap shit you cucks got) offers the ultimate retro picture and experience. It's truly the pinnacle!

>>5561924
If you want to be a drift king you gotta pay to play faggot. Stop whining and cough up the dough or buy a regular car.

>>5562486
Well I've been here since the beginning and I got my 20 inch for free and I paid $10 for my 14 inch. They are of an undeniably better quality than any consumer CRT I've ever owned, they're shielded and they're stackable. The main reason I picked them up was because of their straightforward RGB inputs which I now know how to transcode for YPbPr component CRTs but for you to say there's no reason to own them and that they're identical or "worse" than consumer CRTs really makes you sound ignorant.

Though as I said before a similar vintage consumer Trinitron with RGB transcoding and working service menu knowledge can perform comparably and is available in larger sizes. I'm envious of anyone with enough retro gaming local friends to actually need a CRT larger than 20 to 26 inches but I suspect that's not why people go for big ass ones rather that they just think they're more impressive.

>>5562491
In my experience, they don't really rival them but they're still good sets for just about everything.

>>5562530
>and they're usually way better for video content. In general they're just a far more accurate display, but I think they're unironically soulless and clinical for retro gaming.

What you mean is they're excellent at 480i but not 240p because it looks too sharp.

>>5562568
*barks like a pony*
Just try to hit the curb fully sideways or more so as not to break them $600 control arms

>>5562574
>CRT larger than 20 to 26 inches

Setting the sheer bulk and weight appart I don't get why you'd want that for retro gaming, they tend to mitigate one of the biggest advantage of the technology which is hiding how bad the graphics really are. I guess you can get away with 2D games but then 240p means very pronounced scanlines. Also 50+ inches modern TVs are common and affordable so why not go with that if you want a big picture

>>5562613
I saw a JVC 36" running once. The scanlines were as thick as my thumb.

>>5562574
you chiming off sour grapes is equally if not more stupid. i have the money to go buy a PVM, i have a vehicle to go pick one up if it's close to me but it's pointless and not worth the trouble is what i'm saying. Trying to call me ignorant about not wanting something is just your way of trying really hard to justify your penchant for acquiring nerd cred. That's sad. it doesn't reflect on me, and nor did I say the quality is identical or worse. OP asked and I told him it's a meme. I happen to not care and it's really not that important.

if you called me ignorant in person you better believe i'd lay waste to that sentiment immediately. namefags, i swear

>>5561403
No, just get a TV with RGB.

>>5562587
Yes exactly

I don't have a Sony PVM, but I'm happy with my NEC XP29 and Ikegami whateverthemodel. The Ikegami was the first pro grade CRT I got, but I'm glad I wound up getting the larger NEC. I keep the Ikegami for older stuff like Famicom and MSX, though I rarely play the MSX and my RGB modded Famicom is crapping out and I haven't bothered to fix it yet or RGB mod my working Famicom.

>>5562817
That being said, no, I don't think the NEC would be worth the thousand dollars or whatever they go for now. I got mine for $300-$350 off craigslist several years ago, and that was about the limit for what I think it is worth to me.

Technically, yes.
But it's not what devs intended. Some of them used PVMs to work, but the final test was on a consumer CRT, which is what consumers had, so they had to make the game accordingly.
It's why so many dithering or transparencies effect look like shit on PVMs/RGB. It's meant to be displayed on composite on a regular CRT.

>>5561594
>Filename
Those both look like shit though, no one would defend that shit.

>>5562832
At least the character has a nose in the first image.

>>5562757
>"no you" defensiveness, backpedaling, physical threats over the internet
LOL yeah you sure don't care, Hoss. At least the backpedaling indicates you probably know you're full of shit but as I said before you LOOK ignorant when you say objectively false things (they're tiny, consumer tvs are 10x larger) and you look like you're rationalizing when you say that "they're too sharp" as if they don't have aperture knobs to adjust their sharpness on a game by game basis. You can always make a high quality image blurrier. You can't do the opposite. Maybe you're enough of a bully IRL that people don't let you know that they think you're ignorant but I'm sure they do think it. Also, threatening strangers is a dangerous habit to get into.

>>5563137
gayest thing i've ever read

pvm/bvm > trinitron >>>>>>>>>>>>> random ass crts

best off just getting a random trinitron anon, pvms are autistic

>>5563549
oops posted too early, meant to reply to this:
>>5563556

>>5561403
Yes, but even then, just get a fucking OSSC and be done with it.

>>5562817
Also happy with my NEC. I've got a XM37+ and the picture is incredible. Colors are vibrant, much moreso than my Megaview 29's.

>>5561403
PMV is interchangeable with Alienware

>>5561403
You should think less of PVM vs Consumer and think more of stats and features.

Does a 600 TVL RGB Aperture grille image look better than a 350 TVL Composite Shadow mask image? It depends on what kind of game you are trying to display.

There's no easy answer. You just have to learn, and ultimately it's subjective.

Personally, I have always preferred shadow mask displays for 240p games. Even when viewing in RGB.

>>5561924
The difference is PVMs were and are legitimately high quality pieces of hardware. I would consider them to be something more like a 9C1 Chevrolet Caprice with the LT1 engine + cop suspension and upgrades. Something that was sold for professional use, but has become sought after on the used market for "fun" purposes.

>>5563882
>I've got a XM37+ and the picture is incredible.
Don't ever get rid of that thing. You won't find another one.

>>5564760
They're not really very fun

>>5565256
That's a Crown Victoria aka a Ford aka a piece of SHIT

>>5565493
Yeah.. I think I'll just stick with my pickup since it's not any heavier and came with a manual transmission from the factory - and my Foxbody weighs like half a much

Found
On
Road
Dead

>>5561403
They're better at getting tards and hipsters to shitpost. Does that count?

I bought a philips CRT tv just for some retro vibes since it was dirt cheap.

Then I tried a 9'' CRT Sony PVM and the difference is night and day, its totally worth if you can afford it.

>>5561683
best post ITT

>>5561403
Yes, buy they really were when you can buy one from craiglists for 50$, not at these prices...

Another good thing ruined by the fucking youtubers.

>>5565813
>philips CRT tv

>>5566538
>Yes, buy they really were when you can buy one from craiglists for 50$, not at these prices...
That's not better from when they were mostly free.

>>5566541
Philips made great tubes and TVs that used them, once upon a time. Don't think of today's white box/blue font cheapo Chinese LCD quality when you think of their old CRT TVs.

>>5561403
>Are PVMs really that much better than regular consumer CRTs?
It depends, I personally own a small collection of PVMs, but its worth is tied to how much you care about original hardware. RGB does produce a discernible improvement over other video signal formats for most games, and the main apples-to-apples alternatives to PVMs and other professional monitors are harder to find and harder to maintain when something goes wrong. That said, the price of PVMs has gotten to the point where it’s honestly worth considering if you’re willing to take a slight hit in image quality for a cheaper and larger set like a Wega, since not everybody’s got hundreds of dollars to burn on technologically obsolete display technology.

If you’re just going to emulate and want a CRT, get a VGA CRT and call it a day. It’ll look like a high-TVL PVM and you’ll save yourself a lot of headaches trying to sync combine and scan convert to a more normal TV.

I do use my emulators scan lines how could you tell?

>>5566792
>use my emulators scan lines
what by this they mean

>>5561420
>PVM is unauthentic
>*laughs in XBR Pro*

While I get that playing Mario on a endoscopy monitor is not an experience anyone but maybe 5 really lucky doctors’ kids enjoyed, to flatly say every PVM is inauthentic for retro gaming is wrong. The black cubes PVMs such as the 2530 had a huge presence for demoing and advertising games and media back in the day, since its clear and relatively crisp image made it easier to shill the latest and greatest stuff to consumers.

That said, if you’re going to chase after “the best authentic /vr/ CRT” nowadays, something like a Profeel or RGB-capable XBR is a better bet if you can somehow find one. They’re much cheaper than black cube PVMs and usually have been cared for better.

>>5566704
Cheapo is such a boomer word.

>>5566857
Neato

>>5566797
exmaple

>>5561483
depends on when they're from. a 2003 rca tru flat with only composite > a sony trinitron xbr from 1994 with s-video.

>>5566950
that screen is supposed to be in 480i on real hardware and arcade hardware. injecting blank lines ruins the image

If you can get your hands on a Sony trinitron with RGB input (Which is easy as piss in Europe), I wouldn't bother with a PVM.

>>5566954
Was there really a flat RCA c.2003 that only had composite input, in a size large enough that you'd compare it favorably to an XBR (minimum size 25")? What an odd beast that would have been given the TV market at the time. If so, please give more info (model number and what country it was sold in), thanks.

>>5566962
Clearly you have no idea about what's involved in being a poorfag hipster NPC

>>5566962
Maybe he's running alternating scanlines every frame at 60hz and you're only seeing one frame with only the even fields... Or more likely OP is a fag

>>5568619
OP is always a faggot... newfriend

>>5566950
either 100% opacity or bust

>>5561924
I own both a pvm and a 240sx sooooo

>>5561403
Worth every penny.

>>5561403
mod your jungle chip for RGB, it'll save you a fortune

>>5561468
I put a classified in the French craigslist and after few months a Parisian SFX company sent me a message with a ist of dozens of PVM/BVM they were getting rid of. I snatched 3 for 50each including a very good JVC 19" and a Sony 20F1E.

My point is: don't give up but also look at high end consumer CRT like B&O (lots of them in europe), Mitsubishi Diamond series and Sony KX series (and some KV). They're underrated and cheap here in Europe.

>>5572393
Any of those NTSC or just PAL?

>>5572393
Is a B&O really worth getting though?
Integrated stands, propietary plugs up the ass and needing a big ass expensive remote just to use the damn thing... Really doesn't seem worth it.
Unless of course you have an entire B&O system of that era which is probably an absolute beauty to use, but most people don't.

>>5562491
This. I've got both BVM and consumer TV sets and having sold many of the latter I can tell you that high end consumer TV set will be more than enough for hardcore gaming and will give you more bang for your buck given the current trend of overpricing pro monitors.

>>5572403
What can the most can the leas. Usually high end consumer CRT can deal with both.

>>5572419
B&O were not some fake high quality back in the day so you're getting first choice high-grade components. Given that many people were buying B&O TV sets to brag but never used them much you can get some nice CRT with less than 2K of running hours.

they used to be cool because you could buy them for like $30 before all the retro fags caught wind of them.

r8

>>5561403
They're better, but certainly not worth today's CRT prices, and they're by no means necessary.

>>5565813
>White Ash
Ever since I watched this anime years ago i've constantly spotted references it in every fucking Japanese media I see.
No surprise though, it's a masterpiece.

>>5573506
PUREEYESEX/10