/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5531798
I'm in favor. We need to contain the cancer.

>>5532038
Ah yes, SaGa threads of all things are truly the cancer that's killing /vr/.

After playing this on and off for the past few years I've finally beat my first scenario. Asellus, got the human ending. The game has finally clicked for me and now I'm beginning to understand this beautiful clusterfuck. Working on Red at the moment, beat two of the Black X executives so far. Just got past the Shuzer solo fight. What's up with the Final Crusade move? It was blacked out during that fight and I couldn't use it.

>>5532512
Is this your first SaGa game? I'm starting it in a few hours and haven't decided on a character yet.

>>5531798
I don't understand this game. Are you flying through space to other planets, or is it like the gummi ship in Kingdom Hearts?

>>5532528
I've played a bit of Romancing Saga 2, and a chunk of Frontier 2, as well as some of the gameboy ones back in the day.
No idea who would be good to start with, I started with Riki and got 9 hours in before getting stuck on one of the most bullshit bosses in the game. But that was mostly my fault since I ended up fucking myself over by not knowing monsters could learn more than one additional move, and not knowing how to get more magic for my human characters, so my skillset was retardedly limited and I didn't have much to work with. Gonna have to restart that file lol
Whatever you choose, don't be afraid to look something up if you don't understand it, there's a lot to the game that doesn't get explained at all. Also it's often confusing on how you're supposed to trigger the next story event, or even exit certain screens due to the exit being barely viable or even hidden.
But despite all that, it's very enjoyable if you're into classic JRPGs for their mechanics.

>>5532551
You pick a SaGa and explore the Frontier

>>5532512
>What's up with the Final Crusade move?
It's Alkaiser's built in Life Rain because he isn't broken enough, Alkaiser learns some new moves when you beat up certain executives, Shin/Re Al-Phoenix being the other one if you use Al-Phoenix in a certain battle.
>It was blacked out during that fight and I couldn't use it.
Really? I don't remember this particular, sure you had enough points to cast that?

>>5532528
Most people would suggest Red, Asellus or Emilia as starting characters, I'd say you should choose depending on what storyline and character feels more interesting to you, outside of Lute(Basically no unique content or quest) and Riki/Coon(Has a few tough beginner traps and monsters are a pretty weak race to play with)
To give you a basic rundown:
>Asellus
Play this is you like Utena, Mystic/Youma centric playthrough, can recruit most Mystics/Youma but no mechs allowed, Asellus has her own mechanics as Human/Youma hybrid.
>Red
Play this if you like Tokusatsu, balanced party, only character that can recruit all IRPO team members, Red has his own Henshin mechanics
>Emilia
Play this if you like Charlie's Angels, balanced cast, can recruit the full Gradius team, Emilia's costume gimmick changes your spark table meaning Emilia can learn anything easily.
>T260G
Play this if you like mechs and Layzner, mech centric playthrough with a lot of humans but less mystics, you'll fight LOTS of mech bosses in this one, T260G can change chassis to swap between different base mech builds.
>Blue
Play this if you like wizards'n shiet, the campaign is based around getting all the magic schools in the game and making Blue into an all powerful sorcerer that can cast anything, pretty meta, pulls some serious kino on you, Blue is the only character in the game that can bypass magic restrictions, he's also only playable as a MC.
>Riki/Coon
Monster centric scenario, play it if you LoTR, has some tough challenges here and there and monsters are harder to build up than other races for beginners, Riki is the only one who can get all the seven Rings.
>Lute
Play his story if you have nothing better to do or want to know what's Mondo's deal, he's also the only character that can recruit Captain Hamilton, you can end up straight in the final dungeon in your first five minutes and get locked up there though, so be careful.
>>5532551
Regions are worlds floating in a dimensional sea of sorts.

>>5532572
It was totally blacked out. Only cost 1 WP, so I had plenty of points to use it. Ended up having to chug cures and power cures like a motherfucker to survive.

>>5532591
Hmmm, I don't remember this particular, that's pretty funny.
>Ended up having to chug cures and power cures like a motherfucker to survive.
Invest into runes, Alkaiser greatly benefits from Runes, especially the Life and Power runes.

>>5532609
Noted. Rune Quest here I come.

Also is it worth trying to achieve mastery for all human characters or is it more worthwhile to equip them with both magic and physical skills?

>>5532583
Riki had the most pointless story I've ever seen. Going through all that shit to save the homeworld just for everyone to say 'nevermind, we'll just move'.

>>5532621
>Also is it worth trying to achieve mastery for all human characters or is it more worthwhile to equip them with both magic and physical skills?
Depends on how you want to play, the game normally isn't hard enough to warrant masteries but they can come in handy, especially for mages since many basic spells effectively end up costing nothing and are great for utilities too.
A combat mastery is not that important because weapon combat is focused on ever growing damage potential so those 0 cost moves you might get by having a mastery are not really that useful as they can be in the early hours, guns aren't different and you'll be more interested in your bullet count rather than your WP count, especially since gun techs are both cheap and powerful.

Some characters also inherently benefit from masteries compared to others, see Rouge or Gen, while others like Roufas or Fuse are more canonically all rounders, but given how SaGa doesn't really force you in a premade build, it's still up to you if you want to go against a character's nature.
>>5532638
I think it was a fun twist and it's also something that still makes you consider the power of the Rings too, it's not like lummoxes were a particularly intelligent species either way.
And it's also a good way to look at things, no point in saving something doomed when you can just rebuild, sometimes there's no other way, kind of like Harid's other ending when he eventually gives up on Fatima.

I still don't understand what happened in Blue's story, either. Are Blue and Rouge meant to be two personalities within one person or not?

>>5532672
It was originally one fetus that got divided into twins by the researchers of the magic kingdom in order to bypass the limitations of opposing magic schools.
Blue and Rouge are two distinct people that are meant to eventually fuse back together becoming neither Blue nor Rouge, each of the halves were set to pursue opposing magic schools so that they could be able to cast anything after they fused back into their original self by gaming the system, they needed the most powerful magician ever conceived to contain the outbreak of hell.

Basically, Blue/rouge is doomguy split in two with magic instead of guns, one is the asshole marine the other is the bunny loving marine.

>>5532672
they're one person made into twins while still in the womb with magic

>>5532687
so the magic kingdom were the good guys

>>5532687
what happens when you beat the game as rouge

>>5532714
Depends on how you look at it.
It was one of the mages in the Kingdom that fucked up and created a portal to hell with the seven rings in the first place.
The whole ordeal they put Blue and Rouge through was also pretty fucked up, so calling them good or bad guys is pretty relative depending on your opinion on them, better than the ancient civilizations from RS2 or Frontier 2 though, that's for sure.
>>5532719
Nothing, you just get to play as a slightly different flavour of Blouge, by the time the twins fuse they're neither Blue or Rouge, what remains of the original two is the body of the surviving twin.

Is there anyone available who can explain the egg in Frontier 2

>>5532726
>hey guys we've finally perfected our magic anima technology allowing limitless feats of imagination what did everyone make
>I made this cool lance that freezes stuff
>made an irrigation system to end hunger
>made this cool fire sword bro
>oh also we made a sentient egg with no sense of morality who can create infinite hordes of man eating monsters

>>5532727
Very quick rundown

>Ancient civilization on the verge of collapse creates Quells as a kind of philactery to put their people in stasis, so when the time comes they might awaken in new bodies
>Megaliths are built as a sort of power control towers for various functions
>The egg is a special sentient, autonomous Quell tasked with the protection and revival of their people, once activated it only needs someone to touch it in order to brainwash them, suck their anima and assume direct control of the body
>The Alexei brothers and Wil's parent find the desert Megalith where the Egg is sealed
>Alexei's younger brothers die in unclear circumstances while getting the Egg
>Wil's mother falls prey to the Egg, if Alexei's version of the story is true she kills Wil's father and Alexei ends up killing her
>Alexei falls prey to the Egg but doesn't go mad like Wil's mother
>Gets killed by Wil&Co.
>Egg eventually gets in the hands of a random pirate
>Wil kills said pirate after tracking down the Egg since he can feel the Egg's Anima
>Egg washes ashore somewhere years later, a kid named Misty picks it up, becomes the new host
>Misty grows up, eventually finds Rich
>Rich perceives the Egg and while not knowing it's his father's nemesis decides to destroy it because it's threatening him and Diana
>Rich kills Misty but the Egg tries to make him his next host, commits suicide by falling to his death in the ant cave
>Eventually, a foreign general finds the Egg, the cycle continue
>Foreign general can shapeshift and turns into a fake Gustave XIII
>Somewhere along the line Sargon gets forcibly recruited by the Egg as an Edelritter
>Wil tracks the Egg down again as geriatric old fuck who can still pack a punch
>Reunites with his runaway granddaughter and together they end up destroying the Egg for real before it can cause more trouble and soulsucc all the people in Sandail (Thanks Gustave ;_;7)

>>5532773
>sentient quell responsible for a century of grief, capable of creating vast hordes of monsters, formed the Edelritter, capable of assuming direct control of anyone that comes into contact with it, and is a boss with a metric fuckton of forms that's tough as shit even by SaGa standards
>gets defeated by a big whack from a chunk of steel that was forged by an idiot

Funny as shit in hindsight.

>Red's scenario
>fighting one of those mantis fuckers that use Gale Slash
>entire party dead except for healmec
>revive Red with medipack
>enemy uses gale slash, takes out mec and leaves Red with little HP
>think the battle has already been lost
>"Alkaiser Change"
>oh shit
>enemy destroyed

God bless you Red

>>5534146
Henshin was such a fun mechanic, it's a shame the only other game that got it right was Wild ARMs 2, and that game was easier than Frontier so you didn't really get that rush coming from the need for desperate measures.

>just unlocked DSC for one of my characters
Jesus Christ nobody should have this much power

>>5534336
>tfw Frontier was the last mainline game with wrestling techs not counting remakes
I don't know what the fuck happened, SaGa had tons of wrestling moves and references and then they all mysteriously disappeared after Frontier.

Asellus and Red down, 5 more to go
Who should I pick next?

Also what's up with FAQs telling you to grind to a specific amount of HP? Wouldn't that just inflate the battle rank so enemies get harder? I just ignored the advice and did just fine.

>>5534520
minstrel song wasn't too bad, it had a few at least

>>5535190
you should pick starting over and not reading guides you fool

but you already ruined it didn't you

>>5535232
Waaah cry me a river SaGa elitist

>>5535190
Why don't you try out T260G next?
Mechs should be a nice change of pace.
>Also what's up with FAQs telling you to grind to a specific amount of HP?
Don't know, the only things I check are wikis for certain mechanics so I don't know what those guides suggest you, I don't think it's necessary either unless you want to proceed in a certain non functional order, Frontier isn't that hard to warrant grinding at any point as long as you know how to progress and sequence break.
>Wouldn't that just inflate the battle rank so enemies get harder?
Not necessarily.
Keep in mind that Battle Rank is not some flat global ranking, all areas have their own BR floor and ceiling, it's a common strategy in many games to get through the areas/quests with high BR floor ASAP to maximize gains while minimizing BR growth, the key is always to outrun BR so that it can never catch up to you.

Iirc Frontier's BR does multiply some of the bosses HP depending on value though, but the game is so easy I don't think it's going to ever be a problem unless you're really that stupid to not only build your BR that much but to also not find one of million cheap strategies to deal with that or stabilize your own growth.

>>5531798
Salsa Frontier

>>5532672
>Blue and Rouge
I wonder if the two daemons named as such in TAA were a callback to these.

>>5536895
Knowing who made the game, yeah, I bet they were.

>>5537397
I hope he gets to make another.

>>5537569
I wouldn't worry too much about that, the HD rerelease is a very good sign already, and the resurgence of the main series in general only makes it easier for Koizumi to cement his place in the niche as the less risky option for those who prefer the more classic approach to the main series' more abstract style of the modern games, as I see it it's a win for everyone out there.
It was already unexpected to see a successor to LoL, and Koizumi is a pretty determined guy with a good head on his shoulders, the massive quality leaps between LoL and AraAra are all the proof one needs to see that, I only hope he gets to work with a proper budget, same for the rest of the SaGa Team at Squenix.

Best Saga game?

>>5541423
The one (You) like the most.

just started frontier 1 on T260 story, how riki transformations works? i got a really strong monster(200-500dmg) but while mashing X on random battles I accidently transformed into another one and now i only get shitter that hit for like 70-100.

>>5541570
That's SaGa's signature monster race mechanic.
When you have a monster in your party and kill some other monsters, you'll have a chance at eating the meat of the monster you defeated.
Said meat will let you learn one random ability from the pool of moves of the monster you have defeated.
Once you learn a move two things happen:
1)You get a small base HP bonus if it's a move you haven't learned yet
2)Depending on your base HP value, the move you learned, your current total moveset and their position on your menu, you change monster forms and turn into something else.
Now, it all seems very random and uncontrollable but it's actually really straightforward, in order to transform into a certain monster you need a certain base HP threshold and the same moves that monster uses, putting them into the appropriate slot also helps.
The slot order is:

>Head/Horn/Fang
>Breath
>Body
>Arm
>Magic
>Tail/Leg

So you should order the moves you get following this visual order, of course you also have to understand which ability falls in each move class but outside of some very rare exception it's pretty easy to understand, I don't think you need any hint for this.
Certain monster forms are easier to get than others since they share almost very common moves, Triceratops Jr. for instance is a common early game strong form, other monsters like dragons require more effort since you need very specific attacks that you can only get by defeating those monsters.
Additionally, some recruitable monsters also have their own special forms unique to them, e.g. King Sei.

Basically, do not just eat meat at random and keep in mind these rules.

>>5532512
Great job picking the two most complicated and difficult stories first. No wonder it took you so long.

>>5532572
>>5532591
Final Crusade costs 1 LP in addition to the WP cost, maybe that's why. If Red only had 1 LP left I assume it would be blacked out because of that.

>>5535190
>>5535243
Was he a zoom the whole time?

>>5541423
It's between frontier and minstrel song to people outside japan.

>>5542547
Does Final Crusade automatically shut off if you have only one LP left though?

>>5542870
Not sure, I've never tested it.

>>5538796
I'm curious as to if it's just desperation though (since it was a late release) or if it's a sign that there's enough interest.

>>5532638
Well you didn't think you'd get monkey pawed.
>>5541423
Minstrel Song. After that SaGa Frontier and Romancing SaGa 2, then Final Fantasy Legend II.

>>5543013
I don't think a small company like Cattle Call would have ported the game on different platforms if it didn't meet at the very least the minimum expectations required, Alliance Alive was very well received compared to LoL and no matter how small it is, there's a market for that kind of games that is currently being revitalized.
As I see it it's a good sign, the fact that we're starting to see some explicit competition in making SaGa like games from different companies is pretty significant too.

>>5543480
>Final Fantasy Legend II
I heard the remake is nice.

>>5544053
Both DS remakes are very good, SaGa 3 DS especially.

Oi, I'm currently playing Romancing SaGa 2 (first time, I have no idea what I'm doing beyond not having too much fighting and what the manual tells me), the remade one not the original and I'm having trouble.

I'm currently in the second generation after Leon's death with Onix, female mage. Instead of doing the main story stuff, I decided to go down the Ludon Highlands to check out the lake and then discovered the Nazelle area with the poor village and the mus nomads. I help both, a year passes, then I go back and go into Toba, get the nest there for wharever reason (it's the only thing to do, really) and head into Atlanticus.

In Atlanticus there is a thing about a witch, a dancer and former mermaids. The dancer has blue hair so obviously she's a mermaid. I go see her 3 times, the third time she dances with the current emperor and goes away through the door and disappears. Talking to the villagers later on shows that she's gone, and the town won't go into the night again. Figured the witch had something to do with that woman so I went to see her but she only sells LP potions and points towards a desert. I have a save point before even going to Atlanticus and I've tried doing the same twice to see if it was a bug, but it's the same. Did I fuck up something? The dancer thing smells of a bigger quest, but it just cuts abruptly there.

>>5545946
>but it just cuts abruptly there.
You can only complete the dancer quest with a male emperor.

>>5546002
Oh, so I should just pass Atlanticus by and do other things and then when the timeskip goes, get a male emperor and start attending the dances?

>>5541423
My favorite is Frontier 2, but my brain says Romancing 2

>>5546006
Not going to spoil anything but there's no need to do all the quests, your goal is to kill the heroes after all

>>5546013
Sure! But what I meant is whether the dancer thing stays there if I don't go in this generation. It's just a menial thing.

>>5546006
Pretty sure once you start that quest you can't change the outcome anymore if you started with a female emperor, if you really want to complete that I hope you have a savefile before you started it so you can pick it up with a male emperor, a certain quest in the jungle also has gender check, there's also a few other quests that have alternate routes locked behind the gender/classes of your emperor/empress.
It's not vital either way, though it does change your playthrough a bit later on, RS2 has a lot of quest variations that makes it very suited for multiple playthroughs.

>>5546023
>I hope you have a savefile before you started
Yeah, I have one just before going on the ship to Atlanticus. The thing is, does the quest start by going into Atlanticus or by first meeting the dancer? This is my problem, since I want to check out the desert the witch talks about without having to activate it.

>>5546029
You start the quest by dancing with the girl for the first time.

>>5546038
Perfect. Thanks for the help.

Is it true that you have to follow walkthroughs to play these games because they are too obtuse?

>>5546263
You have to learn the battle system from somewhere since it's really different and the games have no tutorial.

>>5546263
No, you can get through them without guides. They will probably be parts where you're wandering around figuring out how to advance, and you won't understand some of mechanics entirely, but you'll still be able to make it through and enjoy yourself. Probably best to avoid using walkthroughs much or at all during your first playthrough.

>>5546263
Nah, despite what most people will say you don't really need them as long as you pay attention to the games, this ain't Wizardry where you get one puzzle wrong or lose a key item and later on you find out you have to restart your game because the game is at a technical dead end.
It's true that the games are mechanically complex and with some very unusual stuff but it's more a matter of approach and mindset to it all, moreover, using a guide will ruin the adventure, these games allow non linear progression and have multiple MCs, multiple event routes, endings and hidden stuff for a reason, they're made to be played over and over again so you can see where a different choice leads you.

Still, there's no shame in using a guide when you're new to the series, admittedly, some entries can be very frustrating to a newcomer, or you can ask for spoilerfree explanations in these threads.
I for one like learning stuff as I go through, SaGa's one of the very few RPG series that scratches that itch, but everyone's different.

>>5546263
Some shit might befuddle you (it has the typical case of "shit that gets mentioned doesn't happen until an elaborate optional chain of events happen"), but you shouldn't need a guide. Read the manual instead, and remember NO FUCKING GRINDING

>>5546021
if you don't do it with the same emperor who falls in love with her the quest is essentially failed.

>>5546263
No. I even played through a route in Unlimited without a walkthrough. Just fumble through it.

>>5546263
Probably worth mentioning that yes, you can finish the games without a guide. But there's a ton of stuff you can miss, especially if you don't know where you're going and end up fighting a lot of battles. Minstrel Song drove me nuts with this.

>>5547287
Minstrel Song went a bit overboard with missable stuff.
The jewel system and the general quest design favoring quest chains make it so that missing even just one quest can be massively punishing, on top of it all the ER system forces you to progress through the game in a specific fashion unlike other games, which is a shame since MS is structurally very open, but the ER forces you to do most stuff in a pretty linear fashion and what sequence breaking you can have is honestly not that interesting compared to other games in the series like RS2, Frontier or Unlimited, even RS3 was better and it did have some similar design with its own quest deadlines.
I understand the intention behind this decision and by all means, they succeeded in what they wanted to deliver, but I don't really agree with it, I think there's better ways to make the game harder and more balanced than gating you into such strict time limits, let alone bullshit like the Jewel Beast Lair questline forcing you to fight sadistic endgame enemy batches at low BR, being bottlenecked into grail nukes or King Crimson tier tactics isn't fun, especially in a game like MS where you have to gun for those things and builds very carefully from the very beginning.

>>5543673
I do agree that it's a good sign (if possible I plan to get the Switch one, even though the 3DS one will always be my favorite) and the competition is good as well, I was more referring to that they may have wanted more people to play it in general, since from interviews it seems as though it was made with a great deal of love and care (rather than purely sales-related concerns of porting).

>>5535281
I think I'll go start a T260G playthrough, Mecs are sounding fun right about now. How does learning Mec abilities work? I know you absorb other Mec data or some shit but is it just random if you learn an ability or not?

>>5542520
How was I supposed to know? Better yet I actually started with Riki and fucked up due to not knowing all the mechanics yet. Got to Virgil before going "fuck this shit". I'll be better prepared next time, that's for sure.

>>5542547
Nope had full LP during that battle, you get restored beforehand. I know why it doesn't work now: Final Crusade only heals your party members. It's a solo fight. Therefore FC wouldn't do shit.

>>5541635
>slot order
Jesus Christ this fucking game

>>5542659
lol I'm almost 30 dude

>>5548401
>is it just random if you learn an ability or not?
Each enemy mech in the game has its own pool of abilities you can learn by downloading their data, which ability you get after downloading data is picked randomly from that specific pool.
Mind that there's also a chance you don't get anything and regen your WP instead, moreover, you'll need a certain specific motherboard to learn some of the more powerful programs, the good thing is the total pool of mech techniques is relatively small so it doesn't take much to build up.

Some mechs, or mech frames in case of T260G's own gimmick when you play as her, also come with unique, built in techs that can't be used by other frames, one of those frame specific tech also links with a specific downloadable program, I won't spoil which is which since it's pretty easy to understand once you get those.
Mind that while mechs are statistically the strongest race in the game and are immune to pretty much any status alteration, they have two crippling weaknesses, if you came from the GB games you'd now one of those, the other is a bit less obvious, by playing T260G's scenario you'll learn very fast what these weaknesses are, especially if you play as a full mech party.

>Second gen in Romancing SaGa 2
>Decided to try and beat the termites to get the good wills of the people in the desert
>Regular enemies are a bit tougher than usual but not enough to stop me
>The hive's pretty huge, but manage to get through
>Get to the queen
>It does fucking good damage every single turn and can turn poison to everyone just like that
>Too stubborn to just leave
>Manage to kill it once by a lucky streak of Trips, but it permakills my archer
>Reset

>>5548487
>resetting because you lost a character

>>5548509
I just can't deal with it, even if I know they all eventually die in a timeskip and that killing the queen termite will most likely trigger one :(
Beat it btw

>>5548475
>her

>>5548401
Ah right, I didn't read your original post well enough and missed that it was a solo fight.

>Word of God says it's a ship female AI
>Abloobloobloo muh fictional mecha character gender issues
Have a cute Ginny to calm yourself down

>>5548401
Just know this - in terms of usefulness in T260's scenario, the Types could be ranked as:

8 > 6 > 1 > 3 > 2 > 4 >>>>>>> 7 > 5
Won't spoil Type-8. Just know that the moves to go for are PluralSlash, Pop-Knight or ShockSoldier, and CombatMastery/ShootingMastery. Everything else is just icing on the cake.
Type 6 and 1 can learn all of those, although 6 can learn even more useful moves like EnergySupply.
Type-3 can also learn PluralSlash and Kamakaze-CRUSH, but suffers from terrible WP.
Type-2 gets SatelliteLinker which lets you dish out 2000+ damage for 6 turns, but takes 2 to set up and is otherwise a meh unit.
Type-4 is only useful for healing others with MediPacks
Type-7 can't be found in-game by anyone, and isn't worth your time to change T260 into unless you're curious as to how it functions.
Type-5 is hot garbage even if it can learn PluralSlash thanks to having the fewest equip slots to work with and a terrible moveset.

Mecs are by and far the easiest and most powerful units in the game thanks to PluralSlash and Pop-Knight doing ridiculous amounts of damage, being relatively easy for the Mecs that can learn them to pick up, and for only needing equipment to become OP.

>>5549632
Jewish and Muslim religions of peace.

Romancing SaGa 2's a bit bullshit sometimes. How the fuck am I expected to believe the "big fish" in the lake was the one that broke the bridge when it's completely surrounded by landmass and the coasts don't even connect? I figured it out because it was the only water thing going on, but seriously...

>>5551028
>What are underground water tunnels

>>5551224
Good answer, but that shit's kilometres away!

>>5551229
Dude it's the King of the oceans, what are you expecting?

>>5551236
Didn't know that

>>5551239
I mean, there's a reason Subier wanted to assimilate it, it's no mere big fish.

>>5551249
Yeah, I imagined it would be a deity or something like that, but not Poseidon

>Go search for a child and mu that got lost, no big deal, don't even recover from the last shit I went through to get there
>Suddenly Dantarg, everybody at 0 SP/MP
>he can't be fucking stunned

Is the cave maintained between generations or will the kid die out? I'm less than 300 HP for fuck's sake.

>>5551624
>everybody at 0 SP/MP
Just get dem recovery items from your treasury my man.
If you're lucky you're not going to fight him in his last form, besides, you're not even forced to him as long as you leave him for last.

>>5551775
I'm at 3rd gen, so I think it would be 1st form. I have no fucking idea what sets it and honestly finding him was a complete surprise. My question is, can I let gens pass by and the dude will still be there?

Also, if not stun, is he weak to paralysis?

>>5551780
>I'm at 3rd gen, so I think it would be 1st form.
How many limbs does he have?
>I have no fucking idea what sets it and honestly finding him was a complete surprise
Dantarg triggers are perhaps the most complex and obscure triggers in the game as iirc they require a specific amount of in game time to activate the flags on the three possible spawn points and some more stuff like number of battles fought, I don't remember quite right how they work though so you'll better look it up.
>My question is, can I let gens pass by and the dude will still be there?
Honestly, I'm not so sure about that since I never tried, I suppose he despawns if you let a generation shift happen, but you'll never know.
>Also, if not stun, is he weak to paralysis?
Pretty sure he's immune to all statuses in all forms.

I'm only 1 hour into RS Minstrel Song and it's taken away all my party members twice (lost Amazon after getting arrested, then lost Minstrel/Sorceress after the shipwreck). Should I be prepared for my party to be shaken up a lot or is this mostly an early game thing?

>>5551825
He has four legs and two arms. Head's on fire. Either how, I'm going to do something else before going onto him, probably explore or some shit.

>>5551985
Who're you playing as? I take it's Albert since you're mentioning the shipwreck, I don't think you're already that far for another possible shipwreck.
And are those characters outside of the minstrel generics or are you referring to uniques?
>Should I be prepared for my party to be shaken up a lot or is this mostly an early game thing?
Minstrel Song doesn't exactly play fair, you're going to need some more time to adjust I guess, there's quite a few nasty events.
Mind that generics also do not reappear after a certain ER.
>>5552013
Ah, that's just the second form, you're not even remotely in danger for that, he does have a lot of HP though, around 20K, the third and fourth forms are a lot more brutal.
Are you investing in magic, Anon?

>>5552075
Yes, I'm playing as Albert, and I'm assuming the characters were generic since their names were just class names.

>>5552086
Okay then, you're shipwrecked in Valhalland which means you're done with Albert's prologue, go to Gato's village and recruit Sif, Gato will also let you do a quest to slay some monsters in a three cave around Valhalland, that will net you some good jewels, this is also a quest that can be repeated a few times throughout the game and the rewards will scale exponentially so keep that in mind, you also get some unique items in the last loop, so visit ol' Gato once in a while.
Your goal is to get to Rosalia after that, but as usual, you're free to wander around, try not to fight too much and get to the Frontier as there's a few quests in there that are easy to miss due to having very strict ER timing, some of those also tie into various quest chains that reap you some good rewards.

One other thing, MS has a similar system to Unlimited in which your characters can learn various abilities related to exploration, gathering and so on, I'm sure you've already noticed by now, you should level up those abilities, especially Survival since they allow you to actually access new places thanks to things like Jump or Climb, this is pretty much mandatory.
Consider investing into stealth related abilities like Lurk as to avoid unnecessary fights, Trade is also VERY good to have but you need to invest a lot into it to reap the best rewards, you want to have a dedicated rogue that can look for traps, secret mechanism and chest unlocking, Mining is very good to have since it allows you to get minerals for item forging that you'd otherwise need to buy or get as enemy drops, lastly, it's treasure hunting related abilities like Dig might are very good to have when some enemy drops a treasure map, treasures give you VERY good items you can use or sell for loads of money, and there's a few places with fixed treasure chests to dig too.

I think this is all you need to know for now, but if you have any specific question, ask away.

>>5551624
he gonna die if you timeshift

>>5552075
I checked the wiki and it's the first one, actually. Even then, the dude dealt a fuck ton of damage. If I kill him, will it trigger a gen change?

>>5552669
Aaaaaaa

>>5552827
Maybe you get to fight a really low leveled Dantarg and can beat him

believe in urself

>>5552845
He's fucking IMMUNE TO PARALYSIS. But at least he only seems to kick... I can deal him like 1200 per turn with a Cross Cut/Sobat/Beast Slayer combo, but he's going to totally fucking gut me out of LPs...

Damn, this game's fucking GOOD.

>>5552929
Dude, you're not forced to fight Dantarg if you don't wanna, just leave him for last and beat everybody else, you must only defeat six of the heroes before the last battle, the last one standing will be in the game's last dungeon, at a price of course, but by the time you reach the last dungeon you're hopefully not going to have problems beating them.
Good to see you're enjoying the game though, even if you're still in the early generations, I hope you'll be interested enough to replay it a few times and see all the different stuff you can do.

>>5553034
I FUCKING BEAT HIM!!!! He only permakilled the templar mage I had, FUCK THAT FEELS GOOD.

>>5553034
Actually he didn't permakill that one either, SHIT WAS FUCKING FLAWLESS. I now need to force a generation span.

>>5553107
good job mate

as generation passes you not only get better due to gaining levels, but also getting more formations, classes, and finding out shit that works

>>5553104
>>5553107
Nice.
I take he was your first hero, even in his early forms he's kinda tough, so good job on that, you should try to fight him on his fourth form in another playthrough though, that's where he takes off the training gloves for real.

>>5553128
>>5553113
BTW what's the Maze of Memory thing that appears on the side of Atlanticus? It looks like postgame shit so I decided not to go through it.

>>5553146
Optional game content that got originally introduced with the old mobile port from some years ago.
You have four dungeons consisting of multiple floors that have fixed BR ranking, the higher you go the higher the monsters you fight, each of those dungeon has some special events to it, two of which leads to recruiting two new classes, the Kunoichi and Onmyouji classes, the other two give you a new (useless) formation and a special accessory, each dungeon also has randomized item chests that give you anything from worthless items like potions to endgame tier special weapons, money or LP potions, at the end of each dungeon you have to fight some really tough bosses and once you beat all four you get access to an optional, REALLY tough superboss.
It's optional content with particular scaling and rewards, it's not necessarily endgame content but it's not worth tackling early outside of getting the two classes if you like them, you might want to get into it on a new game playthrough if you care about getting the "original" experience first, the equipment you can get in there can be farmed with some degree of patience and can make you really powerful early on, invalidating a lot of the content in the game, including your blacksmiths, on the other hand, the really good rewards have very low chances to drop so it's really up to you if you have the patience to farm those.

Between Steam RS2 and translated SF RS1, which would be an easier starting point/better to play first?

>>5553387
SNES RS is kind of a mess.
It's the game that started the more Ultima-ish game structure coming from the GB games, it also introduced a lot of core mechanics like formations, visible enemies on the map etc., but most of these aren't well thought out or even well integrated.
The proto formation system for instance is very basic and does nothing other than handling the kind of AoE you're subject to and give you ATK/DEF bonus relative to your position and weapon you're using, the position bumping system is nice in theory but horrible in practice too.
As for the enemies, their scripts are very basic compared to the more elaborate ones starting from RS2, moreover some maps are notorious for having too many enemies that inevitably clog up chokepoints, making progression slower than it should be and going against the meaning of the mechanic itself, it doesn't help that most enemies in the game offer no challenge nor threat, which makes the game feel like busywork nowadays.
Almost all of the other mechanics have the same kind of flaws compared to other games, I'd say leave it as one of the later games you'll play because it has mostly historical value than anything, though in hindsight, it will probably make you understand just how impressive RS2 was not just for its time, but as an incredible jump in quality coming from RS1

RS2 is a pretty tough game for most newcomers but it's still a timeless game, I wouldn't suggest starting with it because it's tougher than the average entry and is just so good and ambitious it might give you a skewed and biased perception of most other games, often overlooking some good stuff the other entries have.

Still if you're really set on choosing between the two, I'd say start with RS2, otherwise play Frontier or SaGa 2, either the original or the DS remake, go with the DS remake if you feel the GB original is too boring for you, it's a good game but after nearly 30 years it's a bit tough to look at it with the right perspective.

>>5553531
Thanks for the well thought out response. I'll save RS1 for when I can really appreciate it for what it started and better handle the rough edges.

>>5553795
Unfortunately, while RS1 is definitely important and a very interesting game in its own right when you consider the time it came in, the other JRPG offerings of the time etc., it's still very flawed.

Mind you, it was a very ambitious game for its time and I can't say it did everything wrong, the world is pretty big and the interconnection between zones and dungeons is impressive, you can see that they put quite a lot of effort into creating a world as rich and complex as the Ultima games of the times but on a console, which is again, ambitious and worthy of respect, especially considering the big jump they made from the GB games to the SNES, you have a massive cast of recruitable characters, many different quests, monsters, magic spells and so on.
Historically speaking and also from a design perspective it's undeniably a very interesting game, with many good ideas and some interesting ideas that unfortunately were better on paper than in the game itself, the problem is, it's not as fun to play nowadays, unlike most other entries in the series it definitely feels dated, some design decisions like techs being weapon locked weren't too good and in fact were completely scrapped (Until the SaGa 3 DS remake went back to that idea and made it work at least), and unless you're considering the Wonderswan remaster it lacks basic QoL functions like a dash, which again, makes the game very slow, not to mention the bugs.
Moreover, due to technical constraints they had to cut a few quests related to the Destiny Stones, which are supposed to be a big deal in the story, those quests, alongside some new content were integrated in the PS2 remake, which makes the game's story and lore feel more complete than the SNES original.

So yes, it's definitely a good idea to leave it be until you can deal with all the jank and just plain mistakes so you can look at it coming from the games that built upon its legacy and appreciate it for what it did right.

>>5553795
SNES RS1 is saved for "appreciating the roots", same goes with FFL1-3.

Either Minstrel's song (remake of RS1), RS2 (remastered) and Saga Frontier 1 will work as proper entries to understand what the fuss is all about, and I'm impartial to Saga Frontier 1 and Minstrel's song.

Minstrel will ease you in with its structured pacing while SF1 will ease you in with the leniency of the battle rank (or complete lack of it).

Is the added content in Steam RS2 worth it?

>>5554061
Yeah, it's all good stuff quality wise, the new equipment found in the maze is a bit game breaking though.
The new quest near the end of the game with Viktor kinda gave me the feels too coming from the old SNES version.

The jungle section of RS2 is such bullshit...

I went in with a female emperor, find the amazon leader and save her. She then allies with me and tells me that the queen in the other town is Rocbouquet. So, I go there, kill the plant that is below her, and talk to her. There's no way to kill her and she seems to stay there sitting ducks until you agree with her to go murder the statue. What gives? Shouldn't I simply be able to slay the fucking Rocbouquet? What do I even do, just let her live or let her go to the place where she gets more power?

>>5554129
Roc's questline has many branching paths depending on multiple factors, mainly
>Your current emperor's gender
>Whether or not you've already defeated the Sentinel
Since it's actually a pretty articulated quest I feel kind of bad spoiling it for you so I'll ask if you want me to do so beforehand.
Rest assured you CAN defeat her while she's in the tower in Eilunep.

>>5554157
>Sentinel
No idea what that is, so might as well just let it rest for a second and just do something else, like the desert. It's just that I should be able to kill her just there if I know, you know

>>5554167
>No idea what that is
The stone boss that is guarding the ruins in Eilunep.
>might as well just let it rest for a second and just do something else
>like the desert.
Mighty fine idea given your homicidal instincts.
You wouldn't want to anger best boy after all.

>>5554180
Thanks for the help either how, but fuck playing her game, won't touch that statue. If I know what she is I shouldn't be playing by her rules, some way of killing her will come up on other gen, surely.

>>5554192
>if I know what she is I shouldn't be playing by her rules
Ahhh anon, if only you knew.
I'll eagerly wait until you'll meet Oaive again.

>>5541423
Unlimited if your third eye is open

>>5552929
Someone's getting it. When SaGa clicks it clicks.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/198537-saga-frontier/77194324

>>5554996
>Haha yeah, let's give every item in the game a built in tech or magic because the game isn't easy enough, and fuck items that were actually unique because of that
>Haha let's give every single character in the game their own gimmicks and make them start with OP techs or magic because they don't feel unique enough for me
>It's all to reduce the grinding and rebalance the game bro, trust me
That guy doesn't want a SaGa game, he wants a FF game in a SaGa setting.
I'm not a fan of Aabeta or Bokuno's gameplay changes and rebalance, yet this sounds much worse.

>>5554091
>the new equipment found in the maze is a bit game breaking though
Hmmm, I might skip out on that.

>Talk to that leader in the steppe complaining about the boat in RS2
>Tell him going apeshit at a moving boat won't help
>What plan do you have then?
>HMMM IF ONLY WE HAD A CLEVER STRATEGIST IN THE EMPIRE
>I specifically had gotten an strategist out of the University for that gen
>Same shit happens

???

>>5555589
You could edit it yourself, i'm only following the thread because they might release their new SaGa editing tools.

>>5556197
Iirc you need to try to attack the boat first and then talk to your strategist.
That is if you want to follow the strategist route.

>>5556502
Like, before talking to the leader?

>>5556505
Either choice, even if you attack with the nomads they eventually go back to their base, though it changes the base spawn in the steppes.

Polite bump for the anons playing the games.

So, I'm currently in the Wagnas turf and this sick ice dragon popped up with anticipation and everything. Is it related to anything or is it just some hard ass optional boss? I'm kind of short on LPs.

>>5559190
Just an optional fight.
Like most a lot of the dragon bosses in the series, it can drop the Dragon Spear Gae Bolg, which is the strongest spear in the game (if you don't consider the Ucomb spear you can randomly get in the maze), though you can fight another blue dragon later on in the game, so it's not biggie if you don't fight this one, it respawns even if you win anyway, just concentrate on Wagnas right now if you're low on LP, or pop a barrier stone.

Bump

Is this a good game for people who don't usually like JRPGS?

>>5561589
Depends, what do you dislike about JRPGs?

>>5561673
there isn't a lot of gameplay and they're mostly just reading things, i would rather just read a book

>>5561775
I guess you're in the right place then, as SaGa games are 90% gameplay.
Problem is if you can get behind the gameplay to begin with.

>>5561792
Nice that's good
It's still turn-based gameplay right? Is it any different than other turn-based JRPGs?

>>5561862
Yes, any and all entries in the series are turn based, no ATB fuckery or anything, pure turn based goodness down to the mobage or browser spinoffs.
>Is it any different than other turn-based JRPGs?
Pretty much, yeah, the series is really all about the mechanical side of RPGs so it's considerably more complex and elaborated than most games around, moreover, it uses many unusual design choices and is famous for many unique signature mechanics, non linearity, replay value and massive casts of playable characters.
Story or character wise, they're games that prefer to focus on creating believable worlds with many different characters and their own stories rather than having a focused cast of heroes on a grand quest, they also often give you multiple different main characters with their own stories and backgrounds so you can choose which sounds more appealing to you.

All entries also tend to have their own proprietary submechanics and/or remix the existent meta and established mechanics quite a bit, which makes all entries very unique in their own right, outside of the GB games which are perhaps the most homogeneous despite their differences, unless you consider the DS remakes of course.

Problem is, most people don't like how SaGa uses a levelless approach and has mechanics that make it so mindless grinding is discouraged if not outright punished, as the enemies in most games also have their own progression system that ISN'T tied to your character growth, which means that if you don't take your time to understand how characters grow and how you need to play the games you'll get into pretty frustrating situations.

Then there's games like Unlimited that stand out in pretty much everything even when it comes to the already weird average of the series, in other words, it's a series for people who don't just like gameplay heavy games, but also games that aren't afraid to experiment with unusual mechanics and demand a minimum of player effort.

If SaGa games were a big penis, I would finally go gay.

>>5561898
>uses a level less approach and has mechanics that make it so mindless grinding is discouraged
Nice that sounds appearing.
Which one should I start with? Frontier?

>>5561968
Yes, Frontier is a great place to start as it will teach you all the basics without being too tough on you like other entries, it also has the most popular setting and cast in the series, a rocking OST and some really crazy scenarios.

On the other hand it had a very troubled development cycle, so in some part it's pretty rough around the edges and there's some unfinished stuff in terms of a few quests that don't tie to anything like they were supposed to, it's kind of like a reverse Xenogears in that sense, the content IS there this time around but it's almost completely detached from the big picture, which can be disorienting at times, Furdo's workshop being perhaps the biggest offender.

Big word of advice though, SaGa games are notorious for not holding your hand, at all, they don't have tutorials or anything and while they seem basic on the surface they have tons of mechanics working behind the curtains, which is why a lot of people say they're too RNG heavy or too random in general.
This usually tends to filter people pretty hard, there's those like me who actually enjoy finding out stuff the hard way, people who just browse through endless guides to figure out stuff and those who just give up, though you don't seem to be the latter given your interest.
As many people in these threads, I advise against using guides unless you're REALLY hitting a tough wall and don't know what to do anymore, SaGa's one of the very few series out there that really makes you feel like you're on an adventure, exploring weird worlds with weirder stories and weirder characters still, and Frontier is perhaps the best and more approachable example of that.

Whenever you need anything feel free to ask in these threads, there's many people around who're eager to help out newfriends.

Started SaGa Frontier with Emilia. Am I naturally good at this game or do battles tend to end super quickly?

I'm assuming that it gets harder later.

>mfw finally getting strong enough/having decent enough tactics to kill the heroes without so many repeats

The dragons in the abandoned city are still a no go but fuck this feels good. Specially Noel, I had to cycle through desert screens for three fucking hours before the game decided I was worthy enough to enter the wandering lake again. FUCK him and his pseudo pacifist bullshit.

>>5562002
>I advise against using guides unless you're REALLY hitting a tough wall and don't know what to do anymore
To be honest, using a guide is sometimes as hard as figuring out shit yourself, at least in the case of RS2. There's a lot of misinfo or info that only applies to very specific playthroughs.

I played legend of legacy
curious if the dragons in SaGa are harder or less hard, because the Green Dragon is fucking bullshit, instakills 2/3 members of the party with almost every nuclear fire and poison breath basically negates all passive regen. I was using the strongest party possible spearheaded by Bianca and still barely scraped by with the skin of my balls after quite a few attempts. The alliance alive one is way easier despite doing a fuckload more damage (OHKO on a vanilla claw or stomp attack) and having no shields available to the player, because you have 5 party members.

>>5562062
Frontier's pretty easy but you're still in the beginning, so don't get too cocky.
Mind you that in SaGa games it's more important to win in a specific way than just winning, since what you do in battle is what shapes your characters, in that sense, you have to actually roleplay since you can't just assign points or rely on standard level up templates (Though characters do have their own inherent growth patterns).

Emilia's scenario is easy and very straightforward once you get out of Despair, she gets a strong cast too and also gets free money from Roufas after you complete her main quest segments, which helps out considerably early on, it's a good choice so you can explore at your own leisure without having to worry about finding strong characters or having to deal with strange stuff like in other characters' scenario.
>>5562085
The wandering lake has fixed spawn points you can easily manipulate, best one to use is the one to the west of Tereluteva.
>FUCK him and his pseudo pacifist bullshit.
Noel is a good guy, why do you hate him so much?
But congrats if you killed him, he's one of the strongest heroes with a fearsome array of techs.

>>5553146
If you want to get the two new classes give it a go, they're pretty balanced to the rest.

Though the chest drops can be broken as fuck. Lots of equipment there allow you to cast fusion spells using TP, and that's really strong.

But also it's the only way to find lower-levelled enemies in the game, which is kind of neat if you missed certain item drops (like the hydra suit)

>>5562107
>curious if the dragons in SaGa are harder or less hard
LoL is on the easy side in the context of the series, even though it's not part of it, but it's still made by former SaGa team member, so it's kind of like a younger cousin.
It's pretty much at same difficulty of the DS remakes/Frontier/RS3 more or less, but for a newcomer it's reasonably tough I imagine, the arguably hardest part of SaGa games is getting through the initial culture shock.
>because the Green Dragon is fucking bullshit
SaGa games are some of the few RPGs that actually have D&D tier dragons and not some midboss shit, they don't fuck around at all and are endgame tier enemies for a reason.

Why don't you try getting into the main series with Frontier like the other anons in here? Since you've played both LoL and Ara you'll have an easy time with it, or you can jump straight to the harder games like RS2, TLR or Minstrel Song, and if you feel REALLY ballsy you can try out Unlimited too, but that's for the more special kind of customers.

>>5562110
I don't really hate him lol, I was just in the heat. It's just that it took me a lot of time to find him again, since he curb stomped me the first time I met him (not enough HP/character, had only one character with fire abilities) and I had to summon the lake again. In other circumstances I would have signed the deal with him.

Which ones of the RS2 heroes can't be cheesed?

Noel, Roc and Wagnas can be pretty easily beaten with some planning. Can't recall the rest

>>5562138
I've heard Dantarg can fuck you up if you're not careful with your progression and finding him

>>5562134
Noel is really strong so give yourself a pat on the back for killing him.
As you saw, he really plays to win, especially on the second phase.
>>5562138
All of them can be cheesed if you want, some of them in multiple ways even, Quicktime is a thing after all and then there's formations or just the simple fact that you can tackle them whenever you want.
The weakest are, without a doubt, Bokuhon, Kujinshi and Roc, the rest varies with Noel, Dantarg and maybe Subier being on the top of the list, Wagnas can potentially be very frustrating too, especially if he's in his second form, but the mileage tends to vary depending on your party and how much he spams psychobind.

>>5562132
Well it's not all hard per se, for the first half it really does ease you in well, even with the massive HP spike and the Archwings, you can mostly handle them. Not too easy, but not hard.
But as soon as you open up the upper parts of the island, the game just opens its ass and takes a huge dump on you with enemies that come in massive swarms and act 3 times per turn, sometimes effectively turning it into 16 vs 3 (Party). The goddamn boats are probably the biggest casual filter for that part because their HP is so ridiculously high and they almost never travel alone, despite the other enemies in the area all being easy trash like evil spirits and lizardmen. Aside from those, Bogsaurs, and Armored Stalkers though, the rest is manageable for the mandatory parts. The Wraithfangs are genuinely the most difficult enemy I've ever encountered in a JRPG though, and the other desert enemies are also still pretty rough. Health that numbers in miniboss range, incredible speed that allows them to almost always steal the first move, and they always totally just fuck the whole party with Cat's Cradle. Basically if they roll that move on their move RNG, then it's gameover, no chance of ever recovering.
Out of the Dragons, only the Green one is absolute fucking bullshit though. Red is manageable with a Water Shield and Black can be beaten as long as you aren't fighting him in the desert.

Anyway I was just curious, I was recommended to you guys from /v/. All I've seen of SaGa is two files, one webm of the general gameplay for Unlimited and some other one where some guy runs into a small, harmless looking dinosaur and then immediately regrets it.

>>5562162
>Wraithfangs are genuinely the most difficult enemy I've ever encountered in a JRPG though
Eh, you'll have a field day with things like Noel, Sherah, the Jewel Beast or The Fallen, let alone some of the bullshit Unlimited pulls like Amemit, the Cosmic Sage or Tagut.
I hope you enjoyed that though, it's really good to finally overcome those challenges.

At some point on the BR, many SaGa games turn normal encounters into boss fights pretty much, in fact many of the bosses you fight in most of the games are just really high BR common enemies, that or you have things like TLR where you have to fend off hordes of miniboss tier monsters, with FE tier reinforcement phases.
Really though, if you enjoyed LoL, I'm sure you'll be right at home with the SaGa series proper, especially since LoL has the same kind of open ended progression, but unfortunately with an extremely small cast and party size, with the average SaGa game you can play around with 35 or so characters, which coupled with the nonlinear progression and multiple campaings the replay value is off the roof, certain games have much bigger casts as well since they also offer semigenerics, or straight up have massive casts like Scarlet.

Asellus, Red, and T260 down, just started Lute.

I really enjoyed T260's scenario, getting an entire party of Mecs and decking them out was fun, the final boss was doing pitiful damage besides his one super move.
Lute is pretty barebones, right? I just spent the first hour or so only recruiting party members, I didn't even get into a single battle yet. I want to use 3 full teams this time and swap between them, since you get LP/WP/SP recovery for your unused parties.
What happens when you fill out your party member slots and you run into another recruitable character? Are you just out of luck and can't get them?

>>5562201
I did. I wanted to hunt down an Astral Wraithfang and a Nether Wraithfang to add to my encyclopedia but considering how much trouble it was to add just the regular one (i.e. slay one of them successfully and survive), I didn't end up doing so. I can't really imagine much that's more extreme than that though honestly, unless it's just some enemy packs a priority move that instakills the whole party. Cat's Cradle is a 100% accurate move that instantly puts the whole player party to sleep and is very difficult to act before (if I remember right, the recovery stance that lowers defense could beat it, but it ends up getting you killed anyway), and with the exception of some basic strikes that rolled a slightly lower damage number, Wraithfangs can oneshot an unshielded, super high HP unit with their regular strike. The desert was pretty much the whole "screw you" festival the game put together. Lamias were unbearable without a Heart Emblem to equip. It felt really damn good when I managed to hunt down and slay an Immortal Mantis though, it looked refreshingly freaky and was well worth the hunt.
This might sound a tad retarded but I enjoyed how extreme LoL was in the plot department, basically a JRPG with little in the way of story unless you deliberately picked up and put together all the stone songs. For the combat, it wasn't necessarily their high stats, it's more that they can instantly cripple and kill your whole party, unless you prep right on the first turn. Wraithfangs were the hardest because they could gameover you before you can even move a muscle. The saving grace was the 100% flee chance.

>>5562232
>the final boss was doing pitiful damage besides his one super move.
It's thematic, Genocide Heart is specifically hard countered by mechs as its moveset is intended to fight non mechs to begin with, Carnage for instance has a built in Instakill chance outside of ignoring defense ratings, which is devastating for anything that isn't a mech.
On the other hand you can get unlucky, virtual shift into the desert or the tower and get Magnetic Stom'd to death with a full mech party, but it's VERY rare, you should try to solo T260G's campaign, it's pretty fun, besides, Genocide Heart has amazing aesthetics as a boss fight and the battle theme is absolutely incredible, on top with Red's and Emilia's final bosses in my book, which are incredibly hype.
>Lute is pretty barebones, right?
Yep, there's not much to him at all, but you can get Captain Hamilton with him.
>Are you just out of luck and can't get them?
Yep, that's why so many people hate Slime forcing its way into your party when you're inside Tanzer.
>>5562253
>I enjoyed how extreme LoL was in the plot department, basically a JRPG with little in the way of story unless you deliberately picked up and put together all the stone songs.
That's good to hear, because SaGa games are like that in general, you're the one who puts the story together with some fragments of narrative scattered here and there, even Frontier 2, the more narrative focused game in the series is like that.
In that sense, you'll probably like Frontier and Unlimited the most coming from LoL, although the setting is radically different, LoL's setting is its own thing really, no SaGa game has that kind of premise despite using the same minimalistic, disjointed narrative structure, the worlds are much more alive even in Unlimited's case.

>>5562262
Well I also loved The Alliance Alive, it was definitely a better game even though it's very different and not as hard. The big world was nice and the characters were super likeable, and it had that nice background info to dig up. Sadly few other people played it so I never really got into discussing it with other people, but eh, that's how it goes. Looking forward to the port but the 3DS one will always be special to me. Wish the dev outlined if Bianca really was a golem or if the Coco in LoL is the same as Coco from TAA. Also one last note about the difficulty, I was amused at how it made a big deal about Shadow Giants but they were pathetic compared to regular enemies.
As for SaGa itself, I did download one, but I never really played much of it. I downloaded zsnes and some romancing one for it from RD's filebase. I remember trying one a very long time ago and not particularly enjoying it, the girl I picked to start wasn't going places. It was so long ago I can't even remember which one it was, just that it was among a ton of random JRPGs I downloaded from a list of roms.

>>5562306
>Wish the dev outlined if Bianca really was a golem
That would take out the mystery, wouldn't it?
SaGa games often have the same open ended mysteries with characters like Glenys, certain times they also deliberately give you the decision on what to do with certain characters and which of their identities or stories are true, like in Darque/Aldora's case, or with Jorgen.
The "canon" choice is yours but everything's potentially "canon" outside of what is stated in some of the novels or trivia told outside of the games, think of it like a quantum universe.
>or if the Coco in LoL is the same as Coco from TAA
Wouldn't worry about that too much, Coco is a mascot character like Sensei was in the old SaGa trilogy or the Minstrel in the Romancing trilogy, whether it's the same Coco or not it's not important, it's in there for the charm.
>It was so long ago I can't even remember which one it was, just that it was among a ton of random JRPGs I downloaded from a list of roms.
I guess that LoL would have changed the way you look at that, though SaGa games tend be more aimless than LoL, and Alliance Alive especially.
In that sense, it would be better for you to start with the more focused games like the Frontier games or TLR, as they have a more clearly defined structure than other entries, Frontier 2 is also pretty much linear outside of the non chronological progression, so it's hard to get lost in there, TLR also has a much more linear progression coming from the rest of the series, and so do the GB games.

>>5562138
All of them can be beaten with skill levels <10 and ~200 hp. Then you need to grind 10+ levels to stand a chance vs the last boss.

>going well with the heroes, kill Rocbouquet, which was surprisingly easy after chewing on the fucking blue dragon and its regen/water magic shield combo
>suddenly last emperor, 606hp, the first hero reappears, I haven't even killed Sumier or Bokhon (however it's spelled) and I have no idea how to conquer the Atlanticus area

How did I fuck up? I seriously have no idea what went wrong.

>>5562697
Oh wait I did kill Bokhohn, if the boss at the steppe ship was him and not a mook.

>>5562369
ah wait a sec

>>5562697
>How did I fuck up?
You didn't, keep playing.

>>5562369
I suppose it would, but part of it is simply because the camera does not move back properly so you can see the intact, unbroken Shadow Golem near the end when you fight Cherubim.
I like Coco.
I just don't really remember it much. For the later one I dL'd everyone just got mad I was using znes.

>>5562728
Allright, it scared the shit out of me

>>5563439
>everyone just got mad I was using znes
Kek, how predictable.
>>5563589
You better get used to this kind of surprises, rest assured this is part of the main plot though, you didn't mess up anything, there's even more surprises to come.
Did you find Oaive by the way?

>>5563641
Sure (you mean the sorceress from the beginning, right? The name's different in the Switch version). I accessed the lost city and she told me about the stuff going on with her. The people in the city also pointed out to some ruins that were populated by dragons I couldn't even scratch. At least I stole a shield.
I've conquered most everything, also, but the section in which the Atlanticus city is in I didn't ever have anything to deal with, so I couldn't conquer it.

>>5563652
Yeah, I hope that changed your opinion about the seven, at least a little bit.
>The people in the city also pointed out to some ruins that were populated by dragons I couldn't even scratch
Really?
That's weird considering the point you're in and the fact you beat up people like Noel, Dragons are tough but by now you should be more than capable to beat them up, especially since you beat up worse stuff.
If you beat the giant in the frozen ruins then the dragons south of Terelutva shouldn't be a big deal, outside of the black one I guess.
>but the section in which the Atlanticus city is in I didn't ever have anything to deal with, so I couldn't conquer it.
That's simply because you haven't beat Subier yet, you can still do that as long as you don't leave him as the last hero standing, though it's not like it will change much by now, outside of letting you recruit Maria and her class, an increase in tax revenue won't matter much at this point.

>>5563665
Maybe I didn't give them a fair chance, since they're more like regular enemies standing than bosses. I did beat the dude in the frozen ruins in a pretty early gen, tho. I'll check back on them later. As for the heroes, I'll check up on it now.

>>5562110
I actually picked Emelia because she was selected by default and I assumed it's the starter option.

God damn fuck Rocbouquet, she makes the final fight needlessly hard and I only have one ring against her tricks out of the two more beefy characters I have, which happen to be fucking male.

>>5565354
>she makes the final fight needlessly hard
Did you seriously expect it to be easy? It's the final battle bruh, anything goes.
>I only have one ring against her tricks
Weird, since you should have two at the very least, I guess you missed the Somon Ring?

>>5565414
I mean, I'm allright with the others, but the hypnosis is fucked. What's that Somon Ring? I only have the ring made from the gem that made everyone sleep at the mines.

>>5565423
It's a ring that's very easy to miss, you have to go through the unlit fireplace in the mansion in Somon, the one where Kujinshi's holed up, there's a few chests in there and one has the Somon Ring, which protects against charm.
In this version you can also get an extra protection ring by doing Viktor's quest in the late game, the Intaglio ring protects against any status alteration, it even protects from Astral Gate.

>>5565354
Girl power bro

>>5565437
I certainly missed it, then, and the thing's locked. What quest are you talking about, though? I'm currently doing the Firn Ruins to get the goodies. I had to get away from the last boss zone because I didn't even have the ring in the inventory, so every time Rocbouquet enticed my emperor it was a complete massacre.

Now, the other dude I have in the team seems to be able to get the ability to evade the attack with pretty high chance, so I might not need another ring after all, and using physic water once would make the whole thing easier already.

>>5565454
>What quest are you talking about, though?
It's a late game quest that triggers after you annex all the regions, you have to go to the imperial bedchamber and you'll see one of your ministers in Viktor's room, talk to him then rest in Gerard's bed.
>so every time Rocbouquet enticed my emperor it was a complete massacre.
Sounds like you're not making it far if Temptation is what gives you trouble and not the massive spam in the Astral Gate phases.
Either way, you'll need to find a way to deal with that, you have one ring so your emperor is safe, the molemen's helm has a built in protection against charm if you haven't noticed, Salamanders are also female units if you need a heavy physical hitter/Fire mage.
As for the rest, I hope you remember how to counter the other heroes, and don't think for a second you can take out your Soul Steal Mikiri either, make sure nobody stays down too because it won't work and Soul Steal can and will instakill KO'd characters.

>>5565464
Yeah, I had the first hero of the game as the gatekeeper so everyone's already safe against that. As far as I noticed, I managed to get to Wagnas before my emperor finally killed himself under Rocbouquet's magic. Since I already have every region, I'll go do that after I down the dark dragon.

>>5565479
>As far as I noticed, I managed to get to Wagnas before my emperor finally killed himself under Rocbouquet's magic.
Ehhh, you're still in the middle of the first phase then, that isn't good but it's expected since you can't defend against Temptation.
Rebuild your party, that's all you can do now since you missed your chances on two rings and learning the mikiri for Temptation, shouldn't be hard to do.

Is SaGa Frontier comfy?

>>5565630
Very comfy, Frontier 2 is arguably comfier though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3HkJM0lGn4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUdvalPyW-g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orm0t8hH7Vo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zZHdlJYm9I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcHDUmtdcfo

>>5562138
What do you mean by "cheesed"? Using optimal setups?

>>5565630
absolutely

>>5566492
what do you mean optimal set ups? you can just use five salamanders or five moles

>>5566708
>you can just use five salamanders or five moles

Question from a newcomer: I'm enjoying combat that isn't braindead, something like SMT Nocturne at the very least. Will I like any SaGa game and if yes, which one?

>>5566984
SaGa's combat alone is considerably more complex than any SMT to this day, and even outside of combat you have a much more complex and freeform general gameplay system, it's an all around deeper experience if you're looking for complex systems.
I don't honestly know how Nocturne became a paragon on anything either but that's something for another thread.
>Will I like any SaGa game
Depends entirely on how much you like how these games work, especially on a game by game basis, not many people like the basic gameplay, even less like the more technical games like Unlimited or Minstrel Song.
Outside of the GB games and the first SNES RS being too old, you're free to try anything, general guideline being leaving Minstrel Song, RS2 and especially Unlimited for last, but it all varies on how much you can deal with, starting with the easier games like Frontier or the DS remakes is suggested to get accustomed to the basic gameplay as to not struggle too much with the more complex or weirder games like MS, Unlimited or TLR.

>>5565464
I found the minister, but Viktor didn't come up. I have all the regions annexed bar the ones that are ruins/south Nazelle/forgotten city, which I didn't find any way to conquer. Did I miss anything?

>>5566690
are those rabites

>>5567279
Have you recruited the Onmiyouji and Kunoichi from the Maze?
Did you sleep in Gerard's bed?
>>5567361
Yeah, they're a early BR monster too, you can also play as one if you want, they have a unique Life Candy ability too.
SaGa and Mana are kind of sister series due to the directors being close friends and often sharing team members or working with one another in general, they were buddies since the very first FF.
That's also why SaGa Frontier 2 and Legend of Mana had crossover content if you imported data between the two games, not to mention they were developed by pretty much most of the same people.

>>5567371
Nope and yes. Will do the maze, then.

>>5567058
>leaving Minstrel Song for last
I thought it's considered a good entry for newcomers because it's linear at the beginning and has many tutorials.

>>5567410
All SaGa games with multiple MCs have a linear prologue section at the beginning, with some MCs being an exception to that as part of the formula (Barbara, Lute, Kurt or Leonard being some of those), the only exception to that where all MCs had a linear prologue was RS3.
I wouldn't say it has many tutorials either, outside of the in battle popups for some of the key mechanics and the kids in town, surely more than any other SaGa game but still a lot less than other games.

The problem is that MS is very complex mechanically, very open ended for the series' standard and most importantly, has both BR and ER, which are hard to manage and very frustrating for a beginner, especially for those who look at guides.
But again, it entirely depends on the kind of person you are, I know people who started with Unlimited and made their way through the series from it, it's just a general suggestion.

>>5563641
What's wrong with zsnes though
Played games seemingly as smooth as my 3DS played LoL and TAA, unless it has some sort of issue that isn't present in other emulators

>>5567595
>What's wrong with zsnes though
zsnes is one of the less accurate, if not the least accurate SNES emulators around so it gets a bad rap, it doesn't help that it's a fucking ancient emulator.
Most people on /vr/ also tend to meme about the silly UI.

Who do you think the 'best' characters and 'best' team are in RS2?

TERMITES!!!!

>Play Emelia
>Get to the casino to check Joker
>go underground
>Joker lures me in an unwinnable battle against a giant beast
Do I just retry the fight until the boss decides to keep both Liza and Annie alive to get their 850 damage combination out or am I missing something else here?

>>5567741
>Final emps
>Hannibal/Diana
>Koumei
>Coppelia
>Franklin/Grace
>Drake
>Agun
>Anphitrite
>Fuyo
>Douman
I'm probably forgetting a few other good characters, as for the team, it's up to you really, the combinations are endless.
>>5568034
Who's in your party?
850 damage is pretty meager for a combo attack, have you been doing only Emilia's main quest?

>Thread is autosaging for some reason

>>5568107
Yep I was just talking to Roufas before I head outside and he kept dragging me around. Needless to say I lost in the tournament first round too because Emelia had no gun skills (which I thought she would favor since both story and her portrait shows her with a gun).

My health is also poor, anyone gets one shotted by the giant beast

>>5568215
Not a good choice, humans aren't mech, unless you know where to find good equipment and what you're going to fight you're going to get demolished fast if you just blitz through the main campaign, let alone the fact that the main campaign of SaGa games is very short and basically just a mandatory side quest.
Why don't you try to travel around a bit?
Go to Luminous, there's Rouge there who will make a valuable asset as a magic user, Shrike has a few easy dungeons with good loot (Mind the Biolab, it's not a good place for beginners) and so does Shingrow, Owmi is also a good place to visit early on but it has a pretty strong midboss, if you go to Scrap you can also add recruit various characters, Mei Ling will be a good addition if you want a gun user/mage in a potential all girl party too.
Alternatively, you can try your hand at the magic gift sidequests in Devin, mind that these quest have some tough bosses here and there though, by completing them you'll also be granted access to a few extra regions you can't travel to by normal means.

Humans grow according to what you do in battle, it is imperative that you focus on what each character should cover so that you maximize growth, don't just blindly use whatever catches your eye, SaGa games are freeform, but specializing your characters is what makes you strong, once you decide your team composition and roles, stick to that plan and you'll be rewarded for that.
Try to experiment with your battle techs too, outside of having different properties, certain techs also lead you to learn more powerful techs, using guns or magic also lets you learn more gun techs or magic at the end of a battle(granted you have the gift for the magic schools you want).
If you have any question feel free to ask, though I think I'll make a new thread since for some unknown reason this one is autosaging.

Migrate in here, frens
>>5568273