/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5552860
It was better for multiplayer. That's about as far as I'm willing to go as a hardcore doom autist.

>>5552860
Quake is an acquired taste. Doom isn't. Colorful action that makes you feel like a powerhouse who can burst through hundreds of enemies quickly is fun immediately, whereas appreciating the vertical design and well-thought out, complex but interesting levels of Quake takes time and is not immediately as fun. That's why.

>>5552860
I played and loved Doom from the beginning. I tried Quake, didn't like it. Tried again when I got a newer computer. Didn't like it. Skip ahead about 20 years, tried it again a few months ago. Didn't like it. I've played Doom probably 30 times front to back, I still haven't finished the second act of Quake. It's just not very entertaining. The level design is bland, enemies are dumb even by mid 90s standards, the weapons are generic, and it never tries to be anything but a completely passable but bland experience. Nothing about it stands out except at the time the graphics. Verticality doesn't suddenly make a perfectly average game good. Doom still feels good to play and just about everyone agrees.

>>5552860
Meh

>>5552882
See I was like this too but I forced myself to complete Quake and even played a few mods. I get it now. It has level design on the same level as Doom but it's one of those things that isn't immediately fun until you're already pretty good at it I think.

UNREAL >>>>>>>>>

>>5552891
The only good thing Unreal gave us was a solid engine for much better games to work with. Like Nerf Arena Blast.

>>5552914
Your opinion is shit

>>5552914
It's the other way around, Unreal is an awesome game, but it's engine is garbage. Later iterations of the Unreal engine are good, but the original is terrible.

>>5552860
>Monochromake
>good
It has 5 weapons, and upgrades for them, that's it. And only two of them are actually useful for the bulletsponge enemies that this game is filled with.

>>5552860
Quake has terrible level design.
Quake was unfinished.
Quake has tons of cut content and unambitious design that was constrained.
Quake somehow managed to have even more brown/grey/green lack of variety (aside from the blue levels I guess), and even LESS continuity between episodes, under a poor guise of "lol dimensional portals lol"
If you made this thread saying "admit heretic/hexen/blood/duke3d/shadow warrior" were better games, I'd be inclined to believe you weren't just trolling, but quake was shit.

Quake is much more playable and enjoyable now, but at the time, believe me, duke3d was infinitely better. blood wasn't a fucking block, explosions weren't fucking chunks of blocks, textures didn't look like shit when you got up close to them, etc...
quake truly was a product of the "2d to 3d" era and the game would've been much more presentable if made with sprites rather than 3d. also no interactivity compared to duke, no functioning mirrors, no moving subways / vehicles (or driveable vehicles if you include shadow warrior / later games, but at that point you might as well compare it to Chasm the Rift which is much better than Quake), just generally too much fucking brown dogshit puke everywhere. couldn't hold a candle to unreal 1, even quake 2 couldn't...hint: use color dumbasses...

Was Quake's lack of color a result of engine limitations? Hexen 2 uses the Quake engine and is pretty colorful. Quake 2, in the other hand, also suffers the monochromatic problem, except everything is orange instead of brown. But the PS1 port of Quake 2 has plenty of colors, as do Heretic 2 and Soldier of Fortune (which use the Q2 engine).

>>5552932
Your opinion is also shit

>>5552860
I will admit that Quake is in a lot of ways a better game on its own however the community is so oddly orthodox.
All that comes out of it is themed and 1024 challenge map jams
Doom's community is weirder however there is far more creativity on display. A single year's cacowards show off more unique ideas than all of Quake's output since 2005

>>5552976
High res packs were a mistake

>>5552976
Quake's ideas like Kickflip, Galactix, Target Quake, Slide, etc. are fantastic ideas that were poorly executed. Like in theory they seem like awesome games but then you realize there's no actual content backing them up.

The Unforgiven is still one of my favorite custom Quake maps though. In terms of just massive, expansive maps that don't stray far from traditional fps gameplay, Quake still has a lot of good custom content to offer.

>>5552976
Maybe it has to do with the complexity and limitations of the Quake engine compared to Doom's.

>>5553008
Quake's maps are fucking fantastic though. Seriously go play something like the Unforgiven's 3rd level or A Roman Wilderness in Pain. There are Quake mods that blow most Doom mods away. It's just that the ones that they tend to be cool maps with a few new weapons thrown in.

But still, shit like Galactix and Target Quake are up there with the most creative Doom mods.

>>5552860
True enlightenment is realizing that Quake's user maps are more fun than Doom's user maps.

Half-Life's mods shit all over Quake's, and are so notorious that even casuals and normies know about them. Doom can claim the same (mostly because of Brutal Doom). Quake is a literal nobody.

>>5553030
Quake mods are about making good maps, not memes. That's why less people know about them. They're just good, well-designed maps. Obviously not all of them but enough to compete.

>>5552860
I hate the gameplay and enemy types compared to Doom. Quake 2 was better, but neither really have much lasting appeal because Doom has infinite mods so I'm never done with it and that's where its value lies.

>>5553043
>this is Quakefags on cope

>>5552937
Quake's levels are far more solid than Doom's aside from KDITD, there's no absolute bullshit like The Chasm or pure gimmicks like Sough of Despair.
Quake was rushed together in the last 8 months or so because the engine took forever to get working, during which time Romero spent all his time in interviews and on BBS hyping the game and promising the world of it.
There was little to no cut content, because most of the content was made at the last minute. Just look at how a leaked beta from a few weeks before release was still missing enemies and weapons, and how the final game's monster and weapon behavior is inconsistently written.
The visuals were a massive step up from Doom, with more realistic and consistent texture work and all of it was unique. No long were monsters plagiarized from DnD manuals or music taken from the top rock and metal songs of the 80s. But as I said the game was pieced to get late into development, there's a document that shows that the level progression was at some point completely different but was changed to make it less monotonous.

Also 2D to 3D? Fucking Chasm > Quake?
Are you fucking retarded?
Chasm was literally Wolfenstein 3D level design with 3D assets, it did fuck all with the technology. Quake was designed to make full use of the 3D architecture, with Ogre grenades designed to bounce around and confuse the player and leaping fiends that you could trick off ledges.
Quake's tech was miles ahead of the competition, it was hard enough to render the scene once, never mind twice for a useless gimmick like a mirror. Also quake did have moveable brushes but they were restricted by the optimization of the tech.

>>5553008
Quake's engine was more open than Doom's and can be used to create far more unique behaviors in QC alone. Doom's sourceports greatly expand on the original engine and Zdoom has only relatively recently added a QC equivalent with ZScript

>>5552980
I have a thing for 2000s volume shadow graphics

>>5553063
Whatever "potential" the Quake engine has, the reality is that Doom has infinitely more content, whether you measure it in quantity, quality or variety. Doom seems to be far more appealing to modders than Quake.

>>5553078
Go play some Quake maps. Shit like the Unforgiven is nowhere to be found in Doom's mods.

>>5553079
>Lol, this ONE mod proves that Quake is totally better than all 100,000 plus Doom mods.
Quakefags not even once.

>>5553083
Quake mods have quality. Doom mods have, well, random map generators.

5553090

I got it, you're shitposting. Not gonna get any more (you)s, m8. This conversation is over.

>>5553090
okay retard.
What mod on this list is randomly generated?

>>5553063
It's not about the stencil shadows, it's the fact that these look not as aesthetically pleasing as their original counterparts, despite increased poly count or normal mapping.

>>5552937
>terrible level design
'different than doom' does not equal 'terrible'
>unfinished
yadda yadda great tech demo shitty game contrarian blabbering that is somehow popular in the past few years, probably also fueled by doomfags

>>5553013
>>5553015
>>5553043
>>5553079
Quake's mapping scene's quality is arguably better than Doom's but its a very small one consisting of veterans and professionals having fun in their free time
You rarely see anything truly unique however, they all use the same encounters and pacing. AD made this even more obvious, how many times did you get the Fire Axe only to have half a dozen zombie raise from the dead around you? As I said it's orthodox. The levels are also very easy, GGRC complains a map is too hard whenever he goes under 50% health or dies even once.
However you can spot a new mapper who is from the Doom community a mile away because they try and pull off hordes in Quake which never works.

They're terrified of new gameplay mods most of all. They hate Quake 1.5 because they fear that it may become Quake's Brutal Doom and bring attention to their tightly knit insular community. But they don't have the same problem that Doom has where you'll get every 12 year old with a week old forum account asking if a mod is compatible with it because there are no other mods and the dev has outright stated that it is not compatible with AD and it doesn't even run on the same sourceport

>>5553115
Target Quake is a side-scrolling platformer in Quake that only runs on Winquake. Galactix is a bullet hell game in Quake and Quake Rally is a car racing game in Quake. Kickflip is a skating game in Quake and Slide is a kind of sledding racing game in Quake.

Also shit like the Drake maps and Quoth maps have low-gravity and underwater sequences that blow away most Doom mods. I realize there's less in terms of pure content for Quake mods but in terms of creativity there's a lot of shit. AD is overrated and I hate that people think it sums up the entire Quake community.
Also there are great Quake maps that have hordes of enemies just as long as they are fighting each other and are weaker (1 or 2 shotgun blasts to kill). These maps make you feel like you're in an actual war with people slaughtering each other on both sides, but yeah this is kind of rare.

>>5553127
>>5553115
What Doom has that Quake doesn't is a streamlined, easy way to load multiple mods at once and source ports that allow this to work easily. Quake takes a little more configuring but it is out there.

>>5553127
>Target Quake is a side-scrolling platformer in Quake that only runs on Winquake. Galactix is a bullet hell game in Quake and Quake Rally is a car racing game in Quake. Kickflip is a skating game in Quake and Slide is a kind of sledding racing game in Quake.
How many of these came out in the past decade?
None.
How many of them are getting new content regularly?
None

Darth and Quoth are content packs for maps that follow the stock Quake gameplay conventions. Quake also featured low gravity and underwater levels in the base game. They're also mostly reskins and ports of assets from other games, this is like saying Realm667 is the height of Doom modding's creativity. AD at least introduce monster spawners and minibosses
Doom source ports have adopted these features for years now, along with most other Quake features. I've seen the Quake community be bitter that Doom copied Quake's improvements, further reinforcing their orthodoxy

>>5553131
https://www.quaddicted.com/tools/quake_injector

>>5553156
>Quake injector
Is shit. Even with SQLauncher, this shit isn't even close to being on the same level as ZDL + GZDoom or whatever. It's just not streamlined yet.

>>5552860
Doom had verticality, it just didn't put it to much use, particularly in the iwad maps.

>>5552882
Huh. I mean Quake is fairly different from Doom, but it seems like someone who likes Doom would still like Quake somewhat.

>>5553175
Nah I get why he wouldn't. Doom makes you feel like a badass and it looks cool and colorful. Quake is brown and you have to appreciate the intricate level design. It's good for very different reasons.

>>5552976
I'll agree on that point, people try a lot of unconventional things with Doom modding. I think the more creative people who wanted make true 3D FPS probably went on to GoldSrc, because just things like skeletal animations alone are far easier to work with and produce superior results to the crude animation Quake utilized.
It let you do a lot of the same things as with Quake, but more flexibly and with far more options.

Those models look fucking disgusting by the way, and not in a good way. If you want to spice up Quake's visuals a bit, it should be something like pic related.

>>5553185
I suppose you're right, actually.

>It's good for very different reasons.
Yeah. I like Duke Nukem 3D a lot for reasons like that, it has some of the basic ideas like Doom, but it's a very different game with its own vision and style, and I'd rather have something like that than close ripoff of Doom.

>>5552860

In the startup world they have a concept called Minimum Viable Product (MVP) which basically means to make the simplest, most barebones product you can that still does the task people want it to do, and then iterate from there.

Doom is sort of the Minimum Viable FPS. The levels are not confined to a grid like Wolf3D or other raycasting engines and can be textured and lit arbitrarily, but because the levels are laid out in 2D, it is relatively simple to create and navigate them. You run around collecting weapons/ammo, health/armor, and progression items (keys). You have hitscan and projectile weapons to fight memorable, easily distinguishable enemies. The lack of true 3D and vertical autoaim makes combat more forgiving since you only have to aim on one axis, not two. Most importantly, all of these elements are shockingly well done for an indie game made by half a dozen manchildren in 1993, especially considering it was basically inventing the genre as it went.

>>5553214
Doom wasn't "indie" on any sense of the word. It was a massive release and was being hyped to hell and beyond.

>>5553221
Buget was estimated at about $1,000,000. Eh.

>>5553234
1993 was a different time. Videogames were no movie industry back then.

>>5553190
Chilo's models are fantastic, I'm glad to see him working on Wrath
I like the weird normal mapped models, so long as they aren't the Quake Reforged dogshit mind you. That shit is beyond hideous

>>5553221
>Doom wasn't "indie" on any sense of the word. It was a massive release and was being hyped to hell and beyond.

it was made by 6 or so guys working at a company they started themselves, with no financing or funding beyond what they could pull together themselves. if that is not indie then the word is meaningless.

>>5553291
Id was already a famous and respected developer at the time, having made several popular titles.

>>5553297
so what? tarantino had already made reservoir dogs, but pulp fiction is still considered one of the greatest and most influential "indie" films of all time. id software had already made keen/wolf3d but doom is still considered one of the greatest and most influential "indie" games of all time.

>>5553332
The bar on what's considered "indie" has different standards over time, and for 1993 standards, Doom is well above that bar, in the realm of AAA gaming. Back in those days, "indie" was just a part-time programmer working on his free time, and Id was a team of professionals, working in a commercial company, backed by a larger company, with a physical office and a sales department. Ken Silverman, creator of Build engine, WOULD qualify as "indie", but not Id.

I would say that Doom is a better single player experience but Quake is a better multiplayer.

Remember Quake 2 deathmatches when I was younger. Good times.

>>5553221
It was literally self-published by a ragtag bunch of dudes running their own little company.

Commander Keen was reasonably successful, and Wolfenstein 3D got them some attention, both were published through Apogee, but ID felt Apogee wasn't cutting it as a publisher and wanted to publish their next game, Doom, by themselves, and they did.
They printed up a huge bunch of shareware copies, telling retailers to move as many of them as they could, they could give it away for free, or charge $10, as long as they got Doom out there, and they also uploaded the shareware online, encouraging people to download and play it, then share it with anyone and everyone.

They didn't hire a middleman company or sign any contract deal like that, they did it themselves and they released Doom independently. Indie.

>>5553297
That's besides the point.

>>5553443
By those definitions, Valve and Microsoft are “indie” too

>>5553063
>I have a thing for 2000s volume shadow graphics
Finally i met someone who says this. Fuck.

>>5552860
>says doom has no verticality
>has never used GZDOOM and mouselook

>>5552860
quake was a pretty half-assed tech demo for a very decent engine which would later be put to much better use in Malice, Hexen 2 and Kingpin. Good soundtrack though.

>>5552860
>grenade launcher out
>backed up into a corner
>surrounded by melee monsters
Who took this screenshot?

>>5553548
a retard who can't game properly took it, "durr lets get a rocket launcher when im backed up into a corner, i totally won't die".

>>5552976
Why has the Shambler been turned into a skinny-fat beta?

>>5553553
>not moving slightly to the left so the Fiend hits the Death Knight, providing a useful distraction while you wipe out the Zombies behind them.

Of course, the Fiends and Death Knight come from the corridor prior, so I am not really sure why the player thought it a good idea to rush past them. Perhaps this was a pacifist run, but that doesn't explain the gore beside the Fiend.

Please excuse me, I am a literal Quake autist.

>>5553190
>Those models look fucking disgusting by the way, and not in a good way
This. When playing Quake 1, I had a lot of trouble figuring out what the enemies looked like, because they're so blocky and made of pixelated puke.

>>5553580
autist

>>5552976
Is that eyes on the Shambler? That's wrong.

>>5553548
>Who took this screenshot?
Somebody at id software. This is an official promo screenshot that was used on idsoftware.com and is now on Quake's Steam store page. The point was probably to show off the monster models up close.

5553541
(you)

>>5552860
I play Quake more often, but the enemies are for the most part garbage (though at least all of them except the blue blob assholes are somewhat fair), the levels aren't quite as memorable, and while I do like the soundtrack it really could've used some more high energy tracks here and there.
The one area where Quake is definitively better than Doom in my opinion is in it's multiplayer, especially with the engine advancements allowing for more complex maps.

>>5552860
Quake is a hideous brown game with garbage boss fights

>>5553656
20+ years have past; get Unity or UE and show us that you can do better.

lmao doombabies getting uppity

>>5552860
>screenshot
"TW & TC"
"raven.wad"

idfags are cancer

>>5553618
yeah, pretty much a "look at this HIGH PACE HIGH DANGER ACTION!" type shot

i hope you understand doom players are zoomer shitters who suck at games but want to appear cool. They are the equivalent of classic rock kids

>>5552860
You all remember that time during the late 2000's years where people were getting seriously sick and tired of all those brown and grey shooters? Quake is literally just fucking brown. Need I say more?

>>5553782
okay faggot who only played the shareware

>>5553787
Show me a single level from the original game (no modded levels) with more than 10 colors. Hell even with more than 5 colors.

Quake is brown man. Just deal with it. Doesn't make it bad. Just makes it very ugly on the eyes.

>>5553791
the realm of black magic, the netherworld, and the elder world all have plenty of blue too. Even the techbase levels arent completely brown either, now go back to dimension of the doomed sharewarelet

>>5553791
Sorry you don't understand graphics. Did you fall on your head as a babby?!

>>5553815
The colors other than brown come from stuff like the skybox, projectiles, muzzle flash and the figures on the item boxes.

>>5553808
>>5553815
The overwhelming majority of its color is brown you shits. Its got to be the brownest game I have ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbCHIYXBts0

>>5553826
right eight thats why there are levels where the walls are all blue cause the skybox is tricking our eyes, good catch expert

>>5553541
>calling a game with a consistent and sublime art and music direction a "half-assed tech demo"
phew zoom zoom

>>5553826
>>5553831
Seethe! Seethe! Seethe!
and then seethe some more :^)

>>5553791
stop being a virgin who only played the shareware

>>5553826
>NO NOT LIKE THAT
>I DIDN'T MEAN THAT
>MOMMY HE'S CHEATING

>>5553791
>Quake is the brown ID game
>When Doom II was even more brown

Kek, the entire Quake community (a whole of 5 dudes!!) just got here to whine. No one cares about your brown pew pew shooter, retards.

lmao idfags

I like both Quake and Doom. Fight me you fucking weiners.

>>5553960
I'm not part of the "Quake community" but I still love quake. If you mean part of the guys hanging around on forums with their dicks in their hands jerking over slightly different graphics mods in the same 25+ year old game maybe the Doom community is bigger, that's not exactly a good thing. I could never understand why anyone would prefer Doom, Quake has a sublime balance of varied weapons and enemies while Doom is much more narrow in its gun style and combat, and as pointed out, it doesn't even have vertical.

>>5554062
>I'm totally not part of x, now let me tell you how x is great

>>5552865
>appreciating the vertical design
Who the hell sits around just appreciating what has been staple game design for the last 23 years?

>>5552937
>cut content means the game is bad
retire that stupid argument and retire yourself from this life please.

>>5553791

>>5555123

>>5554146
I fucking wish that vertical design was a staple, it's a treat just to get multi-floor maps these days.

>>5553083
Dude just play AD, its pretty much what quake should have been.

>>5555130

>>5555132

Here's some screenshots without meme filters.

>>5555170

>>5555173

>>5553682
>you have to make something better before criticizing something
God damn you are a retard.

>>5553791
Do people who complain that Quake has no color just want the game to look like Super Mario or something?

>>5553896
is this a new faggot meme

>>5552914
Unreal is not your typical twitch shooter for people with ADHD. It is a much slower paced (in both combat and exploration) journey through a hostile alien world. Its visual design still holds up, and it's a great example of how game aestethics can be amplified by properties of the game engine.
>>5552932
Unreal Engine was great and could do many things Quake 3 engine could not.
UE was competing with Q2 engine at first, and won that one, and then it competed with Q3 as well on even grounds, winning in capabilities and optimisation what it lost in graphical fidelity department.


>>5553682
If you have to do a thing better to criticize similar things, then by your own merit you don't have any right to criticize (or praise for that matter) anything ever again.

>>5555267
No, shit for brains. We just don't want every level to be brown.

>>5555251
Make a better game or SHUT THE FUCK UP you whiny cunt

>>5555289
>>5555271
Retard alert

>>5555295
>>5555296
You have no right to criticise me until you make a child who is better than me

>>5555289
Which it isn't, play past the shareware:
>>5555126
>>5555123
>>5553906

Do you perhaps struggle with the perception of color? Have you ever taken a test?

>>5555298
My kids are already better than you

>>5555331
No they aren't
Because you can't make anything of value

>>5555331
doubtful, since fags don't make kids

>>5555335
Keep seething boy

>>5555346
Yet here you are.

>>5555346
I have 4, joke's on you poorfags

>>5555350
>>5555351
>cope

>>5552860
This.

I have no idea why people still play FPSes that doesn't have true room-over-room. It's like being introduced to the toilet but still preferring to wear diapers and taking a crap in public.

I will give those pre-"room-over-room" games their due: They were good for their time. But so were text adventures and now society has moved forward. There's a reason for why people don't use horses anymore as a main mode of transportation (except for very rare instances).

Doom was a game changer for it's time & so was Quake but I still play Quake to this day and I haven't even touched Doom in close to two decades.

>>5555357
Yikes, imagine being this dense.

>>5555357
Some times simpler=better
Modern games that feel the need to include All the Popular Features regardless of whether they actually need them or not are a testament to that

>>5555354
Says the man who just walked into saying he was born out of one of his father's assholes.

>>5555369
seething

>>5555352
>Absolute Boomer

>>5555380
>absolute poorfag Zoomer
:^)

>>5555421
neither
i was born early enough to play tetris recorded on punchcards

>>5553535
You have to play Quake to really get what they mean by this. Verticality is so central to Quake's level design it gives meaning to that word in video games in ways Doom could not.

>Why the fuck would idolize an FPS with no verticality?
Because if Doom didn't happen iD wouldn't have got to Quake in the first place.

>>5555427
Who's the Boomer now

>>5555427
So how old are you, 65?

>>5555295
What's the matter you big whiney retard baby, out of arguments?

>>5555451
Make a better game or stfu

>>5555452
I can make Tetris
Tetris is best game of all times, so you STFU.

>>5555458
No you

>>5555481
U NO

>>5552860
vanilla quake>vanilla dos doom
gzdoom>>>vanilla quake

Quake really shines in its mods and mappacks. Besides AD, there's a load of stuff for the Quoth mod, and some of the more interesting texture sets, like ikwhite/ikblue, go back to the 90s. I like Doom, too, but Quake is a different beast, and its pleasure comes from its level design and overall aesthetic.

>killing like 5 monsters per level

lol, i'll stick with doom thanks.

>>5553054
Everything about your post disgusts me.

>>5553115
>They hate Quake 1.5 because they fear that it may become Quake's Brutal Doom
It's already getting there.

>>5556847
The extra levels look cool, but I'm a QuakeSpasm guy and I don't feel like fucking around with Dark Places. And I do think that DP looks gaudy.

>>5556772
Modern levels have 100+ enemies per map, sometimes even more, e.g. The Forgotten Sepulcher has 308, and A Roman Wilderness of Pain has 939 (!).

>>5556880
Don't bother, they don't all die to a single shotgun blast so he'll call it shit anyway.

>>5556883
nothing aside from canon fodder dies to a single shot gun blast retard

>>5556880
is The Forgotten Sepulcher the largest quake map ever made?

>>5556972
No, Ter Shibboleth probably takes that title given it required modification of the already-expanded protocol's map size limits to even run. Not especially notable other than the xbox hueg map size for distant buildings and shit, though.

>>5556880
Beautifully done, but what a colossal waste turning some maps into these unwieldy monstrosities that take hours to clear. Same goes for some Doom maps.

QUAKE IS BAD XD XD XD

>>5552860
>verticality
Doom does have "verticality", but it's handled through auto-aim. Realism in FPS sucks and always has. Doom was more fun.

>>5557015
>Ter Shibboleth probably takes that title given it required modification of the already-expanded protocol's map size limits to even run
As did The Forgotten Sepulcher. But that was all like 2 years ago and by now any fork of QuakeSpasm will run these maps with no issue.

Ter Shibboleth features sorta open world areas, but the concept really doesn't work in this engine. The performance hit is huge (due to the lack of VIS) and everything outdoors is way too bright because the lightmap system wasn't suited for that.

>>5556772
Bump up from Easy to either Medium or Hard, the game becomes a lot more fun because the levels are much more populated and more challenging.

>>5556880
>The Forgotten Sepulcher
has yes the map that is too focused on being pretty and non linear that all of its encounters could be defeated by a quadriplegic
Someone needs to force these these Quakequeers to play Going Down on Ultra Violence to show how difficulty is really done

>>5553896
i played both doom and quake when they came out and was absolutely shocked at how slow, ugly and directionless quake was compared to doom. quake 2 was a gigantic step up from the first one, being merely unremarkable in every respect.

doomfags are cringe

>>5557029
Quake isn't that realistic either, and uses the expanded capabilities for some various fun and interesting things.

>>5552860
People don't seem to get how innovative this piece of technology was. It paved the way for so much stuff that is incredible, videogaming as we know it today literally couldn't be this way if it wasn't for Quake and I'm not even exaggerating. You just need to dig into this matter and you'll find more stuff everytime, you can be an hater or not but in the end you can only be silent and admit how important this thing was. Another important thing is that it trascends gaming and pretty much improves or invents even more stuff in other sectors. If DOOM was a masterpiece, this is the natural evolution of a pillar. And thinking about how much content was cut leaves me even more speechless, like what the fuck, it's already groundbreaking but it was supposed to be even more so?

It's not only the verticality, it's the WASD+Mouse mapping, the spot-on maneuverability, the pioneering game modes like CTF, etc. (I heard about some illiterate fags who said that Team Fortress 2 was a mod of Counter Strike. Well, guess what it was a mod of Quake), the machinima, the esports (these two or three last things may be debatable nowadays but back then it was something nice), and a lot more that I'm forgetting.

Everyone stop arguing and go play MapJam X.
http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61718

>>5557172
fuck you, i'm not playing any more of these shit jams by professional jerkoffs
you want your community to grow? separate actual user maps from maps made by people paid to do this shit, so new mappers no longer have to compare themselves to endless AD shilling

Tried Quake 1 for the first time recently and had the same problem I had with Doom.

When I play these games I kind of want to turn my brain off and blow up monsters with cool guns. Well I say turn my brain off but I like strategizing regarding how to approach and deal with enemies. And the games deliver on these fronts.

But there's also a certain amount of wandering around looking for the right nook or cranny to pass through. This was way worse in Doom with all the keys, Quake doesn't seem to have as much so far. But both these games will hide mandatory tunnels on top of rivers of shit that damages you, so you're just running around losing health hoping you happen to be wandering towards the right direction. It just seems obtuse and even trial and error based, like the games are only really good when you already know all the maps.

There are definitely enjoyable moments in these games and I don't dislike them, but navigating just starts to wear thin after a while and I get bored.

People don't seem to get how innovative this piece of technology was. It paved the way for so much stuff that is incredible, videogaming as we know it today literally couldn't be this way if it wasn't for Quake and I'm not even exaggerating. You just need to dig into this matter and you'll find more stuff everytime, you can be an hater or not but in the end you can only be silent and admit how important this thing was. Another important thing is that it trascends gaming and pretty much improves or invents even more stuff in other sectors. If DOOM was a masterpiece, this is the natural evolution of a pillar. And thinking about how much content was cut leaves me even more speechless, like what the fuck, it's already groundbreaking but it was supposed to be even more so?

It's not only the verticality, it's the WASD+Mouse mapping, the spot-on maneuverability, the pioneering game modes like CTF, etc. (I heard about some illiterate fags who said that Team Fortress 2 was a mod of Counter Strike. Well, guess what it was a mod of Quake)... From there, it all went south with other debatable concepts that were still neat for the time but with time they devolved into faggotry, such as the machinima, the esports and the idea for Valve's first engine... And probably a lot more that I'm forgetting atm.

>>5555130
What is this

>>5557182
>But both these games will hide mandatory tunnels on top of rivers of shit that damages you, so you're just running around losing health hoping you happen to be wandering towards the right direction.
Quake does not have this. Quake doesn't even have hurtfloors, it only has lava (which will kill you so quickly you don't have time to wander, and is clearly the wrong direction) and slime (which you can swim through and is nearly always accompanied by a biosuit, and is never forced damage to progress).

>>5552860
They were both very good in their own ways. Don't sew division.

>>5557180
You're a salty bastard, but this is a good point; the barrier to entry for Quake is really high. There are a fair amount of new mappers, though, and some of them do pretty good stuff.

>>5557172
>Try to make beautiful Quake maps
>They're still all brown

>>5556880
Doom had 100+ enemies per level at release. Modern fan levels can have several thousands.

>>5555130
What's your config get get quake to look like that?

>>5557516
gl_nearest and lower resolution im guessing

>>5557396
No... Doom did not have 100 enemies per level. Anon I think your hate for quake my have fired your brain. Doom does have more enemies per level compared to quake but not 100+.

>>5555123
>>5555126
>>5555130
>>5555132
>>5557516
I put the render to nearest and do r_scale 3, it's to closest I can get it to look like did on quake spasm.

>>5557750
*Dos
not did. Sorry

>>5557184
It's Arcane Dimensions. It's a big mod pack for Quake. It adds in new enemies some taken from heretic and it adds a bunch of levels. I recommend it as it's basically what quake 2 would have been if it stayed in the same style. Only problem about it is that some levels are to large for their own good. Some levels make you walk around looking for some button or item and you will end up back tracking a lot in certain levels. Other than that it's a awesome mod.

>>5557741
There are literally levels in doom that have 100+ enemies.

why did quake have such a horrible sound while jumping?

NEED GOOD WADS FOR COMPLEX DOOM OR PROJECT MSX

Adolescence is fawning over western shooters.
Adulthood is knowing the japs did shooters better.

Quake definitely has better gameplay, or at least potential for it, but Doom is a better game overall. Better atmosphere, style, game feel, music, etc.

Quake always felt kind of bland in comparison. The gore is less detailed and the blocky 3D enemy models look worse than Dooms great sprites. Even Doom's narrative is better with what little there is. If Doom was reimagined in the Quake engine it would be perfect.

>>5552860
i remembere when i worked on this game back in the day, there are front, side, side, back side right, backside left, and backside, well technically i didn't work on this but a very similar game nothing i did went into the game but its very similar to this

>>5557860
i'll add that it was in after 2010 lol, but nothing i could get would be added since the pallettes i couldnt figure out how to make it 'work out' in there lol. plus i was "doing it for free" lol

>>5557827
There's levels in Doom 2 that have well over 200 enemies. I think maybe the 6th or 7th level has around 250 on UV.

any good mods that use hexen 2 assets? or good hexen 2 mods?

>>5557850
>says jap shooters are better
>posts ikaruga
you're not doing much to help your argument

>>5557850
Not even the same genre.

Doom always felt like the average man’s game. “Wow blood!!” and other shock values it relied on, like a cheap shitty horror move that was famous due to the marketing and popularity. Quake on the other hand was much less known, plenty of normies today still never having heard of it. Quake had more soul, but less normie-friendly factors and was more subtle in its beauty. Why do you think the Doom general thread is filled with the absolute most autistic, degenerate, basement-dwelling retards? Because that’s who it appeals to because of what type of game it is.

>>5557910
movie*

>>5557910
You're a faggot if you don't think both games are 10/10s.

>>5552860
I like quake way more than doom

>>5557889
Arcane Dimensions uses plenty of Hexen 2's monsters.

As for Hexen 2 itself this is the only decent map pack for it, the game's just not very popular:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/hexen-ii-shadows-of-chaos

>>5557387

>>5557396
I'm not sure any Doom 1 level had even 100 monsters at once.
It would have Nightmare! mode though.

>>5557921
This. Thread's closed.

>>5552860
Quake all day. Especially multiplayer - something the zoomers on here don't reference, as they were not born.

>>5557974
No shit, AD was originally meant to be a Hexen 2 mod, but they switched to Quake for whatever reason.

>>5558219
wasn't it always meant to be an open source remake of Quoth?

>>5558219
>AD was originally meant to be a Hexen 2 mod
Wrong. AD was kickstarted by SimonOC who wanted a modern open source modders resource for Q1 SP mapping. Quoth was getting too old in the tooth and it's closed source, so you can't fix or improve it since the author (Kell) is no longer around. Hence everyone in the community pitching in and making AD a reality.

Hexen 2 is generally disliked in the Q1 community. There are no good source ports and map size limits are less than vanilla Quake (notice how the mod linked above includes a custom build of uhexen2 with BSP2 support). And it's just not a terribly interesting game outside of its aesthetics.

>>5557183
>People don't seem to get how innovative this piece of technology was. It paved the way for so much stuff that is incredible, videogaming as we know it today literally couldn't be this way if it wasn't for Quake and I'm not even exaggerating.

gaming today would be precisely identical if quake didn't exist. it wasn't "innovative," it was taking the next obvious steps from doom (full 3d, full lighting, better mod support, proper networking support) and making them work on computers that were barely powerful enough to do it. hell the reason quake's development was as fractured as it was because id software COULDN'T innovate in gameplay, and ended up making the game a wolf3d/doom-style FPS because that was the thing they already knew how to ship.

there's less to discuss with quake
there's like 3 notable mods and that's it, no one plays multiplayer anymore
literally the only thing to talk about is whether quakespasm is accurate enough or not

>>5558357
Kell is still around, just pretty slow. Quoth is still in active development, in fact, which is why it's not open source.

>>5552860
Quake is good for its own reasons, Doom just has a much more prominent legacy.

>>5557201
This. Doom can be rather annoying with "figure out where to go next", especially in the PWADs. Too many teleporter mazes and wall spamming on nuclear floors means the levels end up getting frustrating.

Quake generally is pretty straightforward. There are either audio cues, visual cues, or something in general to aid you. Unless you are really accustomed to an automap telling you exactly where to go, I am not sure how Quake can make you lost. This is actually one of the main reasons I prefer Quake, more time is spent fighting opponents and less time spent on moving down weak shotgun guys only to wonder where to go next because you crossed the teleporter on the wrong linedef.

>>5552860
Because doom is an action movie while quake is a weird lucid dream

>>5558550
>looks at the state of modern shooters
Looks like the Quake school of game design has won. Just eyecandy, very little interactivity, just add a few scripted events to pretend the game has substance

>>5558615
Quake has barely any scripted events or scenes, it's basically all gameplay.

>>5558559
Hmm, could it be that Quake maps are far less complex than Doom maps? I see how brainlets would find Quake more appealing than Doom.

>>5558621
Quake has very little substance, what was acceptable in 1996 would not be acceptable later on, hence the introduction of scripted events starting with Half-Life.

>>5552914
thank you based anon for triggering those nerds

>>5558629
Goldeneye came out before Half Life.

>>5552860
You seriously can't aim on the y axis on Doom?

>>5558550
In terms of game design pre Half-Life FPS games have very little in common with modern FPS games.

>>5558703
not in the original, but many source ports allow it

>>5558629
Gameplay is substance. I will stop giving you (You)'s now.

>>5558701
consolebabby

>>5558629
>>5558615
>>5558623
>>5558419
go back

>>5558758
What kind of blithering poorfag doesn't play games on both home computers and consoles?

duke interactivity was gimmick as fuck

>>5558765
Not as gimmick as your mom.

>>5558767
cry more

>>5558769
That's what I told your mom.

>>5558776
she told me she didnt feel anything.

>>5558782
Yeah, apparently you wore her gash out when she gave birth to your fat ass.

>>5558701
>>5558707
Quake unleashed all of these monsters in the world

>>5559032
I don't want to be mean anon, but I specifically wrote "in terms of game design" so please read with comprehension next time.

>>5558416
Besides the last part, this post is objectively wrong.

>>5553541
There was just silence on my copy of Quake

>>5558629
the fuck? gameplay is substance, like the fast action and carnage quake offers. getting stuck on an unskippable trainride for 5 minutes is just faggot shit. god damned retard

>>5558765
so what it was a fun gimmick

>>5559449
i also downloaded mine from kazaa anon

>>5553541
>le tech demo meme

>>5559459
I bought it on CD ROM when it came out. My classmates also had silence instead of a Trent Reznor OST - although one friends' dad had Jazz music on the computer that the game played instead

>>5559480
you probably had the volume off on your CD drive in that case. It probably would have worked if you tried the headphone jack, if not then something really was fucky. Shit that streamed from the CD like that had its own volume controls

>>5557829
worst post in the thread, gj

>>5557829
Wtf are you talking about. HUH HUH HUH is one of the most iconic sounds in the history of gaming.

>>5552865
I kind of agree with this. I love them both now, but I took me a while to really appreciate just how great Quake is.

>>5552865
I guess I like both - it's just I feel that coming from Doom, weapons in Quake don't have the same kick. They feel wimpy and enemies seem much spongier. It doesn't flow as well a Doom for me. But to be honest, design-wise Quake was more interesting - fighting medieval knights and Lovecraftian monsters in gothic castles felt more unique than killing demons in space.

>>5553896
fuck man dont make me fap to simpsons

>>5552860
Doom is the best and will remain the best as long as the internet exists because of its community. + The game is colorful and I prefer the futuristic hell setting rather than the gray and brown medieval setting

>>5563614
At least gay people can't breed and your shit taste won't infect the rest of the genepool.

>>5552860
When will Quake autists finally admit that Doom was and still is a much better game?

Why the fuck would idolize an FPS with, like, four colors?

>>5563710
>four colors
That's a gross exaggeration. Everyone knows that Quake has one color only.

ITT elitists shitting about either of the two games, not realizing that both are masterpieces and great for their own right

>>5563740
Quake could only be considered a "masterpiece" at technical level, but as a game? Nah

>>5563873
I liked it both as a game and as a tech demo (despite all the cut content), not only that, it actually transcends gaming for certain factors. For me it's not a small deal, it's a matter of perspective.

>>5563724
>>5563710
enjoy your casual fps doombabies

>aim assist
>cant look up and down
lol

>>5564258
>Quakefag calling anyone casual

>>5552860
*Blood

>>5552865
Quake is probably harder too. You are too vulnerable compared to Doom and the game is much more punishing: you take much more damage, your health drops if above 100, the rooms are smaller and the weapons don't deal that much damage. They are very different games.

I started playing for the first time 3 years ago and literally made me sweat, specially when fighting the Shamblers. Of course that's far from what happen now, I know all the mechanics of the game and beating the enemies are pretty straightforward and the perfect excuse to listen to podcasts, since playing this game is now second nature.

Quick, do shamblers have fur or not

>>5564898
They do not. Their skin isn't yeti-like, it's rather glans-like or at least the kind of smooth and uncanny texture you would expect from a dark outer space abomination

>>5564978
official source?

>>5564898
yes
>>5564978
>>5565085

>>5553101
>Oblige

>>5565121
Fuck off Romero, the Shambler doesn't have a fur and you know it. Shut up, just shut up.

>>5558419
most doom gameplay mods suck, all they do is make the player OP. that's why i like hideous destructor the most and prefer to only play megawads

>>5565207
>reeeeeeeeee

Quake is better than Doom, but the Doom mod community is bigger than the Quake mod community.

>>5565121
i knew it i never got how anyone didnt get the impression of a yeti like creature from the model. all the drawings with skin just looked wrong

>>5565534
Fuck off Romero, fuck off. Fuck off I said, the shambler is not a furry, fuck off.

It isn't and I wish you fucking scabs would fuck off out of Doom threads which you weaseled your way into out of pity because nobody gives enough shits about your game.

>>5555427
Nigger plz. I played Pong on a rented abacus

Both Doom and quake were cutting-edge games when they were released. Quake sequels became controversial because the developers wanted to focus more on multi than story, which did make the games suffer initially but in the end multiplayer is the higher good because that is where the the best challenge and most fun can be found. Q3/Quakelive is still the standard for multiplayer excellence and in 20 years nothing has come out to replace it. Learning how to master the mechanics is like learning how to master a musical instrument.