/vr/ - Retro Games

Presentation
Presentation
Presentation

Because plebs are easily impressed with a game if it has good style.

Shmups better than Ikaruga:
Mars Matrix
Einhander
G-Darius
Gradius Gaiden
Radiant Silvergun
I could keep going but you get the point.

Because of retarded Treasure fanboys, because it's stylish/modern and because its unique gimmick is easy to notice and understand at a glance. So it has become the go to token shmup and is at the top of lists of non-players

Because it would be boring if the top 5 list was just 2hu games

>>5511460
Let's create a shmup for modern day audience. Add XP, skills, talents, that ship gonna be a beast, nigga, next time you fight the hardest boss. Then let's add drops, some grinding would be neat for that +10 laser gun with heat seeking missiles. Also, make it so you can not only customize your ship color but let you also play barbie doll with your pilot. Even if you think you're a badass by making it so your guy has scars and an eyepatch on his face, you're still playing barbie doll like a little girl. Now let's add crafting because why else would you even want to chain combos if not to farm better with that +10 laser gun with heat seeking missiles.
Do you have any doubt this shmup would be considered #1 worldwide.

Because it’s a great game.

>>5511548
>just add RPG elements and unlocks

>>5511460
Plebs will be plebs

>>5511552
Bonus points for dialogue choices, shitload of cut scenes and alternative paths. Some genres are better left out of the mainstream gaze or eventually they'll turn out to be this kind of crap.

>>5511520
>Einhander
>G-Darius
>Gradius Gaiden
I like you

>>5511460
>Why is Ikaruga always in the top 5 (if not #1) of every list of top shmups?
Because it's one of the best shmups ever made. Among the top 5, if not #1.

>>5511460
Because of Dreamcast fever, and because of plebs dropping their jaw at seeing their first modern shmup.

It's like when some asshole mangles Nessun Dorma on Britain Got Talent and wins because of the clueless audience going "wow I didn't know opera could be this good!" when it clearly can be a million times better.

>>5511547
>>5511549
>>5511618
Based real shmup fans
>>5511471
>>5511520
>>5511532
>>5511548
>>5511552
>>5511590
>>5511598
>>5512248
Cringe /vg/ kids

>>5511460
Because it was a shmup that normies could get into and it looked nice and it wasn't the most difficult game in the world.

Haters hate it because it doesn't require a +10 autism skill set in order to finish the first level.

>>5511552
Ironically Mars Matrix does exactly that

>>5512257
>everyone I don't like is literally /vg/
So, this is your brain on RPGs...

>>5511460
Admit it OP. This game emasculated you.

>>5511618
Did you 1cc it and get some nice scores?

>>5511520
go play Mars Matrix

>>5512248
>dreamcast fever
wut

>>5511460
It was novel at release and the other good shooter on the gamecube.

>>5512359
I remember those videos. I still think of them from time to time.

Only retarded polar bears liked Ikaruga.

>>5511520

UN Squadron

>>5511460
Because back when its only home release was still the Gamecube it was that one game everybody wanted to play but didn't want to go out of their way to actually get for their selves. It's like Tales of Symphonia, only popular because its exclusivity to a tremendously underselling system made it an envy of all those who didn't own it.

>>5512517
>Because back when its only home release was still the Gamecube
It was on the Dreamcast in Japan much earlier and every schmuck in the US pirated it because its disc image compressed down to some tiny size, 40 MB IIRC.

>>5512517
>Gamecube
>tremendously underselling system
It was comparable in worldwide sales to Xbox, they would both only be considered "tremendous undersellers" compared to PS2 for their day

>>5512526
Settle down treasuredrone, no need to get so feisty

>>5512526
Yeah, I had it bootleg on a Dreamcast multi-game image because it was so small.

>>5512538
I think you have me confused for someone else, I don't even understand this reply under any context in the thread so far.

the game has "gravitas"

>>5511460
it's not a very fun videogame to be honest but it has storyline and aesthetic or something I guess

I don't really like the blue/white and black/red thing myself, it's kind of dumb

>>5511460
Because it does something novel, unlike 99% of other shmups.

>>5512723
A shield gimmick is hardly novel.

>>5512552
He is the anti treasure autist dont bother

>>5514590
Still more interesting than almost every other shmup.

>>5511548
Play Batsugun

>>5511548
No no no no no you nu male gamer

>>5511460
This game is better.
It has the same bullet switching mechanic.

>>5512681
>the game has "gravitas"
More like gravitarse hurr hurr hurr

>>5511460
Why is FF7 always in the list of top 5 JRPGs when it's not even the best FF game? Why is OoT always the top adventure game when it's not even the best N64 Zelda game?

The answer is that original opinions don't exist. Don't indulge in gaming 'journalism' because it's essentially a hivemind. Make your own opinions.

>>5511460
Opinion parroting

Who /Gynoug/ here?

>>5511460
never got into this game, but I really like its look and the music.

>>5512263
in a non-obstructive way

>>5514765
based and toaplaned

>>5511548
I'm 1000% sure a game like that already exists but it's probably mediocre.

>>5515007
Wings of Wor until death. I will always remember that along with Bio Hazard Battle which I would rent. I'm not even good at shooters but man WoW was great, especially the art style and I liked the additional magic attacks you had on the side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToBdzV7w5Pc

Max Chain
Excellent
Splendid
Energy Max
Energy Max
Energy Max
Energy Max
Energy Max

because when normal people think of shmups they imagine rote memorizing of patterns instead of something skill oriented. then here comes a game where your skill as a pilot can get you out of a jam

>>5511460
because most fags have never played more than 5 shmups ever. I've played most SHMUPs released over the last 30-years and it's definitely in the top 25, but it's a stretch to say its in the top 15 even.

>>5514926
Indie games are awful when compared to actually good games from the genre they are supposedly independent from. Just one screenshot lets me know the game you posted is ugly, derivative and made by some autist instead of a team of professionals.

>>5515560
I wonder if part of the reason its so well received is that its one of only two shmups made by the company which means someone can feel safe saying its one of the best without playing the dozens of games required to pick out the best game by someone like Cave for example.

>>5515012
Fantasy settings make any game better. I wish there were more great fantasy games that weren't RPGs.

>>5515563
>team of professionals.
This explains everything.

>>5515969
wow you like dodonpachi, do you want a cookie? why did the dipshit who made this image use the most entry level shmup imaginable?

Ikaruga consistently ranks highly because it's a good shmup. Some fags just get butthurt because it ranks higher than their chosen bullet-hell-with-grazing-mechanics #57,885

>>5515983
They've never seen past the first stage of ika either apparently.

>>5511460
Because it's the most recent shmup to see any degree of mainstream success. Which means it's the one that game journalists are most likely to have played.

>>5515969
>not realizing that the game rewards you for using the opposite polarity on enemies and just constantly using the same polarity and shielding all the bullets is the low-score n00b shitter way to play

>>5511460
It has a cult following because Dreamcast fags have so little to boast for their console they elevate a mediocre shooter that has a great first level that leaves a good impression.
Axelay is better than that.

>>5516314
Why are console shmups so fucking based?

>>5515983
Oh wow we got ourselves a "shmup patrician" over here, which patrician shmups did you credit feed lately? DOJ is one of if not the the most competitive game around atm and the scoring is incredibly hard, thinking it's some entry level game for noobs just shows that you don't really know much yourself.

>It's ANOTHER /shmupg/ faggot thread
God I'm getting sick of these retards

>>5516314
>>5517320

/v/ is this way ->

>>5517367
You /shmupg/ faggots are beyond predictable yet you call everyone else NPCs lmao

>>5517368
please go back to /v/

thank you

>>5517381
>Reddit spacing
>Shmupg faggotry

>>5517320
shmupgang is based

fuck jarpigs and fuck anti-skill shills

>>5515553
Funny cause Ikaruga is extremely memo heavy and static so as usual non-players get the wrong impression based on superficial elements

play arena shooters for real skill, shmupfags

>>5518059
>tfw i play and enjoy both

>>5518059
Nice try bethesda

Arena shooters are based but they strain my eyes like nothing else

>>5518059
>real skill
skill is skill, you'd know that if you weren't a falseflagging jarpig

>>5512382
Interact with any person who bought a Dreamcast when it was new and you'll know what I mean

>>5511460
It isn't though, it's always Caveshit

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=62178

>>5516435
>if you drop your chain once your 1.5 hour run is ruined
LOL

>>5518776
>1.5 hour run
Yup exactly as I expected, totally clueless /vr/ shitter posing as some kind of shmups patrician for credit feeding lesser known games

>dodonpachi
>hard
Lmao this board is a joke

>>5519042
Lemme guess you got a bomb spam 1-all, never touched the loop or scoring and yet think you're hot shit?

>>5519060
Last time I told /vr/ about my runs I got told I was lying. DDP is easy as piss

>>5519061
Probably cause it's true. Did you 2-ALL it? Did you get a decent score? There's a very small amount of people who have DDP scores worth a piss in the west so unless you're one of them you're talking shit

>>5519063
>Because it's true
Wow I guess no one except LE BASED JAPS can do well at a game

>>5519065
Well, what's your score then big boy?

>>5519067
Been way too long to even remember

>>5519068
Did you 2-ALL it?

>>5519069
Yeah

>>5519070
What were the hardest parts of the loop in your opinion? How long did it take approx?

>>5519072
Tired of your boring troll routine

>>5519070
no one who ever 2-alled ddp would forget roughly what the score was as it takes too much time to get it, you're a terrible liar.

>>5519176
Nah if you play 15 minutes a day you should get it. Shit's easy.

>>5519201
15 minutes is not even the length of a full attempt dud wtf is wrong with your trolling, really that upset at shmup fans?

>>5511460
it's well known and shmup is a niche genre, so people say the only 2-3 they know.

>>5515009
You're right. It's called sky force reloaded and has all that to a t except the pilot customization

>>5519224
Just watched a metal jesus review about it. He played 25 hours of it and keeps coming back. What a blast I just purchased it

>>5511548
If balanced well that could be fun. Leveling works well in Guardian Heroes because the game is short and there isn't much grinding to be able to do so the enemies stay decently nasty the whole time. Being able to allocate your XP to increase different attributes and all the paths to choose gives it a lot of replay value.

SotN is the other side of the coin where even if you handicap yourself, avoid fighting anything unnecessary and use crappy weapons you still get stupidly overpowered by mid way through.

>>5520428
The proper way has already been done and guess what it still sold like shit because ultimately the games retained all the challenge and didnt let you trivialize anything with grind. The only way there will be enough progression to satisfy the average rpg and rpg lite playing zoomer is if the games can be completely broken and trivialized by progression

>>5520428
Also this doesnt even need to be said but branching paths and different playstyles can and should be implemented without any rpg elements, see Darius level branching or the varied ships in Batrider or Psikyo games. People replaying the games because content is gated from them is cancer though, it leads to more gating and more bloating what the genre actually needs is good incentives to replay for the inherent fun of getting better and improving scores that aren't shitty unlocks, that way the games can keep their arcade length and essence.

>>5520437
Ohh you misunderstand. I wasn't talking about making it for an RPG audience (which I think SotN was) I was taking about including those elements in a regularly balanced shmup. It's not really that far off the way you upgrade in Gradius for example, just a little more expanded.

>>5520448
I'm also not talking about gating any content. And yeah it can be done without rpg elements, it has many times. It's just a varation and different takes. You don't have to agree.

>>5520449
That's been done for ages though, earliest example I can think of is Fantasy Zone and newest GOOD one is Caladrius Blaze

>>5520453
Yeah I love Fantasy Zone.

The shooting game genre has just gotten worse since 1982

>>5520468
True that. They became dodgemups

>>5520468
Based actual boomer Williams/Namco fanboy

>>5520478
Any game that has rapid fire when you hold the button down is a dodgemup.

>>5519176
Yes, because you haven't cleared anything means no one has. The genre is great but you fucking idiots are the worst

you can't be smug about ikaruga if you've only just migrated onto caveshit from touhou. go play mars matrix.

>>5520582
>no one
Who said this? A random /vr/ shitter (You) with no proof to speak of who constantly avoids questions and doesn't remember basic things is not the same as an accomplished player who can go into details or provide proof.

>>5520557
Extremely dumb take, Toaplan games for example require manual shooting yet they focus on dodging. Ikaruga has autofire built in yet its very precision shooting based. CAVE games almost all have semi auto too. Good ol /vr/.

>>5520479
I lost to your troll filename, kill me

>>5511460
Because it accomplishes a lot with a simple set of mechanics. It’s why Tetris is fondly remembered in spite of being a simple game.

>>5520594
Because I crushed it so long ago I barely remember you raging tard.

>>5521180
>yeah dude I was a superplayer 20 years ago source : trust me bro
Nah unless youre a human goldfish

>>5521185
>If I didn't do well then no one did: The Post

>>5521186
others did it, you didnt tho

>/vr/ literally cannot process someone has done well at a game.
What a shit board

>>5521189
who are you even talking to? you seem like a shit poster, on a board that is out of your depth.

>>5521209
I'm pointing out the idiocy of this board. Someone literally cannot process that I've crushed his faggot game, so he rages that I can't possibly have

>>5521223
The idiocy of not believing some random fag online without a shred of evidence?

>>5521241
Suddenly you're all about evidence? You're transparent, this board sucks off le pro japs without evidence, thinks billy mitchell and that other fat fuck are gods as well despite them being proven cheaters

>>5512526

I remember when Ikaruga was released into the DC FTP sites. Everyone thought it was a fake because it was only 40 MB. A few FTP administrators had to modify the file name and name it "ikaruga yes it really is this small.rar"

>>5521242
Billy streamed his runs after being outed showing that hes not a total fake, the japs do too all the time either at events or just hey. What do you have? Nothing

>>5521331
This is a cope of immense scale

>>5511548
Sounds like Sky Force Reloaded.

>>5511548
You /shmupg/ faggots are so delusional it's worrying

>>5521353
>/shmupg/ faggots

I took a step into that toilet and I was amazed by the bitter autism. Why is /shumpg/ full of sad people?

>>5521467
They are good at one thing and overstate how important it is as part of a good life.

>>5521467
Because the only thing they like they're
1) Shit at, as proven by their streams and constant posts about things other than shmups
2) A massive victim complex

>>5521507
shit at? we have a ton of westie records and great scores + times in many genres, we have iconoclast who literally beat the jap competition in m2s ketsui deathtiny contest.

>>5521481
>They are good at one thing

wrong.

Yep, here they are now desperate to pretend they're actually super leet totes hardcore. Ignore them

>>5521572
im sorry the truth is a problem for you.

Ignore /shmupg/ idiots, they have the largest victim complex in the world.

>>5521575
do we? im not a victim thank you very much.

>>5521576
Good one

>>5521578
>Good one
ricky plz

Not only do they not actually play, the entire thread is filled with e-celeb faggotry

I feel like shmups have to be one of the easiest genres to get right actually despite its limited appeal. There isn't really much to them besides difficulty. Everything about the genre was pretty much established almost since its inception with no truly real changes like you've seen with the FPS genre and many others. Like if you were an aspiring developer you might want to make a shmup just to train your craft. Similar I would imagine with puzzle games as well.

>>5521641
Very wrong and typical opinion from those who don't really play these games

>>5521921
Very wrong and typical opinion from someone that only plays modern shmups

>>5521949
You know dick. Toaplan came up with sealing for terrain enemies for Slap Fight in 1986 and refined that in their 1987 milestone Flying Shark. This was a big development for shmups that happened in the 80's, and one of many that would come then and in the 90's.
Back to RPGs faggot.

>>5521962
Why do shmup fans target RPGs specifically? They aren't even the most casual genre, and there are plenty of people who play both.

>>5521962
Anon could you please not bring up modern shumps

>>5521641
That feeling is wrong and typical dunning kruger effect overconfidence. You can just look at the absolute trash western developers keep releasing these days to see this. But that's just scratching the surface because those devs fuck up the very basics, there's a lot to the games beyond those basics. Like sure you can implement point blanking, sealing, don't make enemies massive bullet sponges, make the guns feel powerful and take care of other usual stuff devs fuck up. But then you have the actual stage/boss design. Stages need flow, encounters need variety, bosses need to challenge different skills and be dynamic, etc. all of this has to be done from raw intuitive understanding of the genre acquired from experience because there's few good resources up online for shmup dev. Then you get into scoring and higher level play, scoring systems need a lot of thought and testing and developers need to have experience scoring in games to understand what's fun and what isn't. Difficulty as quality is also retarded, you could buff Dodonpachi's chaining and make it even less lenient and punishing basically forcing the players to do frame perfect routes to get ahead but nobody would actually have fun in it since the fun comes from depth, variability and challenge along with other aspects. The thing with simple hyper-focused genres like this is that the tiny details become extremely important and make or break your experience with a game. And those tiny details are easy to overlook for new developers, especially if they aren't long time shmup fans themselves.

>>5521964
Most popular genre on /vr/ and typically dumb clueless statements come from RPG fans that don't touch shmups.

>>5521965
The modern shmup era started in 1994 at the earliest.
Unless you're strictly talking about fixed screen shmups for some reason but that phase only lasted for 3-4 years.

>>5521970
>Most popular genre on /vr/ and typically dumb clueless statements come from RPG fans that don't touch shmups.

So two groups of people don't like each other's games and we all have to suffer through you both shitting up the board over it for eternity. You both suck in my opinion.

>>5521987
Fucking based

>>5521987
Alright, what was the last shmup that you cleared or scored in? When was that?

>>5522005
I don't like shmups much so I don't spend my time trying to beat them usually. I enjoyed Gaiares a lot bit haven't played it in close to a decade. Fantasy Zone is pretty rad and I played that recently and spent last month playing Granada on Genesis which is shmup-like. The important point is that whining about people who aren't you having different tastes in games is a pointless waste. I like bumping into other roguelike fans, but I understand why the genre is offputting to many and it's no skin off my back that it'll never be as popular as RPGs, platformers or whatever. I just play what I like.

>>5515969
>Don't even posting ikaruga's stage 4
>That dodonpachi pattern
Was this a falseflag webm or what?

>>5521570
Iconoclast godlike the rest are a bunch of ugly chicks that think they're hot because they hang out with the pretty girls.

>>5521575
Of course, it's just like you jarpigs to pull that shit trying to discredit us.

>>5522063
>/shmupg/ falseflagging
What, surely not. That'd be like /v/ saying something idiotic

>>5522052
>I don't like shmups much so I don't spend my time trying to beat them usually.
>Roguelike fan
OK so stop complaining if you barely if at all like and play shmups, while also being a fan of an RPG-like genre. You only get triggered because you get called out for what you are.
We actual shmup fans are tired of your shit and can smell your bs from a mile away, we deal with your kin way too much.
/vr/ is Dunning-Kruger effect when it comes to stuff like shmups, Jesus.

>>5523664
this
>waaah why do you call us rpg fans that don't really like shmups!! stop calling us what we admit we are!!
stick to gay elf threads faggots

The victim complex in full force lmao

>>5515007

MY NIGGA

>>5523671
You're the same Mad Max, another RPG fan that barely touches shmups
When you say completely ignorant stuff on shmups you'll get called out for it, I know you'd like actual shmup fans to disappear but we're here

>>5523683
>Barely touches shmups
Reminder unless tardo wills it, it doesn't exist. Turns out playing shmups doesn't count if tardo says so

>>5523684
You haven't cleared a shmup since last September (and it was an extremely easy one at that) while spending most of your time with RPGs since.
You have pretty much 0 knowledge and experience and pretty much just come to shitpost.

Reminder tardo thinks because I don't tweet and reply to his inane bullshit about what I've been doing, it means I've done nothing. He's obsessed with status and e-celebs, to the point where he doesn't even play the games right. Ignore him and the rest of /shmupcuckg/

>>5523695
Oh but you have posted that. You have been constantly jumping from game to game ever since, while barely playing and getting wrecked. DonPachi's stage 2 and 3 horror elements, Ibara Kuro, DOJ's mysterious autobombs, Hellsinker, Raystorm and more. Not a singe clear, but you did beat shit like Final Fantasy X!
Places like /shmupg/ make you uncomfortable because you want to be surrounded by secondaries like yourself. It's alright, you've found a nice place for that here on /vr/. I won't bother you after this, this was just a reminder for the rest of what's really going on. Have fun with your fellow jarpigs.

Ignore the tardo who's seething. He literally plays the RPGs he hates so much, doesn't even play shmups and sucks the dick of every e-celeb he can in place of actual skill. I wish there was a better place to talk about shmups

>>5523718
What? You're on /vr/
Can't you discuss shmups with other people like yourself that barely play them and have nothing to say about them (besides complaining about the fans that play)?
Oh well you always have the Final Fantasy threads for the stuff you actually play.

He's still seething and going off about Final Fantasy for whatever reason. I want a place to talk about shmups with other knowledgeable people. Tardo, who admits he only plays for an hour at most is not knowledgeable at all but pretends to be