/vr/ - Retro Games

hi /v/

>>5521452
>nobody liked Fallout before 2008

I've noticed these particular games really frustrate zoomers. They know they are good but are to ADHD to pay attention and maybe read text

>>5521485
I liked it so much I bought a thousand shares of interplay when they went broke and the shares were like 13 cents

Anyway, if you want a serious answer, I like them because they emulate the mechanics of 80's style /tg/ games while also putting in a decent effort at giving us the breadth of choices we could make in such freeform games
plus, the humor and aesthetics were top notch. The ost is untouchable

>>5521487
Yeah man, Zenimax bought the IP because nobody had heard of it or liked it, sure thing. Interplay actually went under as a direct result of becoming a publically traded company. Suddenly, morons that didn't understand the industry were driving decisions. For a company in the early 00s that wasn't EA or Activision, that was a death sentence

>>5521492
This game was massive is what I'm saying, it was at compusa for years and had several releases.
Just like deus X

>>5521452
I don't. I tried but I think I got into them too late. I adored other isometric RPGs at the time, BG and such but I didn't play Fallout until they announced 3. It was just boring mostly. It didn't balance well, too much stat checking for every little thing you do. Some of the quests are good but it just felt slow and clunky overall. 2 is better but I just didn't click with it. Never tried Tactics, BoS was alright for what it was (not really my style either). Honestly the series seems right up my alley but it's never resonated with me much.

>>5521497
I thought you were OP being sarcastic, my bad man. Still, my point stands. I think at GDC the old Interplay guys themselves said going public on the stock exchange is what ultimately fucked up everything

>>5521501
That's interesting, because I love fallout and feel the same way about BG. Tried to get into them but for some reason it just doesn't click like these games did

>>5521501
>>5521513

i love both games, but imo bg2>bg, and f1>f2

>>5521513
I 100% believe this is a generational thing, I bet this guy is slightly younger than me and landed right in the era that wasn't too dissimilar to the one nowadays.
I'm not criticizing I wish I could enjoy Commodore 64 games as well

>>5521524
I was born in 93 and can generally enjoy any game from the mid-80s onwards. I think I enjoyed Fallout so much because I was stuck in BFE with no internet. Same reason I have more trouble reading books these days

>>5521452
I like Fallout 1&2 games for their worldbuilding, lore and atmosphere - this world makes sense. And possibility to solve a lot of problems in multiple ways with all of them feeling organic and logical. And the score rules.
Ironically, all of the above are where F3 falls flat on it's face..

Granted I like F1 more than F2, for sure. My only problem with F1 is how criminally short it is.

>>5521524
I used to think about that. Maybe its something about the time it was released, but after getting massively addicted to master of magic and x-com enemy unknown i just don't know man. I was still in my diapers where these came out. Also system shock felt very satisfying for some reason, coming from someone who played 2 first.

>>5521534
when these came out*

>>5521452
The most overrated franchise in history (Honorable mention to the legend of Zelda franchise)
>FO1
>eye shooting simulator
>FO2
>cringe humor simulator (the precursor to shit like Borderlands)
>FO:T
>the only halfway decent entry which is held back by a broken combat system. Play JA2 instead
>FO3
>my introduction to Fallout. Ugly, janky, and a really shitty RPG but it nailed that depressing, empty ATMOSPHERE for whatever that’s worth. Did exploration better than its successors
>FO:NV
>wow the writing team actually tried with this one. Too bad it’s a glorified overhaul mod of FO3 with worse pacing, exploration, and ATMOSPHERE. The RPG elements are not nearly as complex or interesting as it’s made out to be by zoomers
>FO4
>whereismyson.mp4
>FO:West Virginia or whatever the fuck it’s called who gives a shit it’s fucking shit it’s all fucking shit.

>>5521554
I think the borderlands comparison is a bit harsh I mean I don't think boarder lands would get as dark as fallout 2 went. Do you mean the pop culture stuff in fallout 2?

>>5521554
i can smell the reek of zoomer

>>5521561
i'm not kidding Zoomers absolutely hate these games but fucking love and feel nostalgia for saints row 2 of all things.
Its really strange like I've encountered it in person I don't know what it is but they fucking seeth

>>5521452
It's like asking why do you like pizza. You can't really pin it why, because pizza is universally liked. Fallout had a cult strong following even back in 1998, and I remember it because I was waiting anxiously for F2.

>>5521561
>using a normie buzzword
get the fuck out to reddit and 9gag and never return here

>>5521452
I would like to get into them, but I don't like turn-based combat system

Because I like turn-based tactics games and I enjoy RPGs where choices matter. Also, it is good for any RPG to have multiple paths available to accomplish any goals (or skip them).

>>5521594
>normie
hello normalfaggot

>>5521452
Fallout 1:
you had to be 13 years old in 1997.
the game was immersive & mysterious.
the soundtrack was atmospheric and subtle.
combat was dangerous.
ywn know what it's like to get sent to the Glow and then carefully read every holotape you find feeling like it's an episode of the Xfiles.

>>5521554
>FO3
>my introduction to Fallout
opinion invalid

>>5521492
>1999
>Sierra is the biggest player in the business, making everyone else look like 3rd rate companies
>2002
>Sierra is barely a thing

>>5521554
>FO2
>(the precursor to shit like Borderlands)
The absolute state of attention-seeking zoomers

>>5521813
>ywn know what it's like to get sent to the Glow
and then die for a mysterious reason as you're 12 and can't read English all that well yet

>>5521452
Fallout 1 was an extremely engaging game that captured your imagination and gave you a world to immerse into. Doubly so if you played Wasteland prior to it (the amount of references for people familiar with Wasteland is a nice bonus).
Fallout 2 was a sequel to Fallout 1 done by the same company. What fucking else recommendation it needed? And it was bigger in every possible direction, giving also much more immersive world.

>>5521813
LOL I turned 13 October of 97. Saddly I didn't play it for a few years after that, but I loved it all the same.

>>5521452
Fallout 1 was my first "adult" game I've played on a PC. I was 14 and it was really, really damn fun to play, because it gave me the type of choices and dilemas no game prior did, along with providing escapistic adventure with it.

>>5521501
>>5521524
How about a much, much simplier solution:
You don't really like non-fantasy RPG. The other anon likes non-fantasy RPG.
It's that god-damn simple. No point trying to reinvent the wheel while trying to figure out the difference, anon

>>5521452
I don't want to tell you

>>5521813
based

>>5521513
Heroic fantasy feels so generic and boring af

>>5521452
/v/tards deserve the gas chamber for these awful threads

>>5522570
That's the thing about the D&D system - it was made for Sword & Sorcery games were the players just wanna get treasure and be like Conan, but everyone played it like it was knock off LotR and this affected the games. Forgotten Realms sucks

There will never again be a feeling like waking up Christmas morning in 1997, unwrapping Fallout, installing it, then proceeding to shoot people in Shady Sands in the groin until they collapse. Bethesda fallouts are shit, the writing is shit, and they went out of their way to fuck up the old ones forever.

>>5522570
post apo sci-fi feels so generic and boring af

>>5522583
what did he mean by this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzSySg2768Q

>>5522845
>>5522835
>>5522832
>>5522830
>>5522826
>AI upscaling

>>5522620
They both do

>>5522598
how did they fuck up the old ones

>>5522897
Ok this is deep

>>5521813
The Glow was amazing. When I entered that location for the first time I was absolutely mesmerized by its atmosphere. Wanted to explore and atay there but the radiation emanating from that place really puts a sense of danger on you and forces you to rush it to retrieve everything ASAP putting more tense as you reach lower levels. My second time playing through I was pretty happy with myself for figuring out a set up and get there as fast as I could while blocking/dodging all the traps and stomping all over the game for the rest of it with my energy build.

>>5521813

This. Also same as: Being 5 grader (12 y/o) and actually completing X-Com while not speaking English

Feeling of actual roleplay elements. Feeling of old pen and paper move character on board elements.

Check out Underrail.

>>5523113
there's also one called Atom that is faithful to fallout.

>>5521485

My junior high class kept talking about it in 1997. I was the nerdy guy but even some of the semi-cools, now dead, brought it up

>>5521452
They are fun as fuck

I don't like any Fallout or think they're good.

>>5521452
Regarding the first game: great atmosphere, many different ways to play the game both in terms of branching questlines as well as different skillsets, extremely satisfying critical death animations, and a feeling of being dropped into a world with no fucking clue on what you're supposed to do beyond surviving and meeting your one critical quest.

Fallout 2 is pretty overrated though.

>>5521452
I could never get into issometric rpgs, so I only like 3 and New Vegas...4 looks like a turd, though.

>>5523302
zoom zoom

>>5523129
You mean the Russian game? It's... hm... let's be diplomatic about it: I would rather play Underrail.

>>5523584
no doubts underrail is vastly superior

so many groins smashed in this game with the Super Sledgehammer. just a whole street full of smashed groins in New Reno. like the burning of Atlanta.

justice came for the mob that day

>>5523593
Have you tried LEFT leg instead? Yes, left specifically. Either this is some extreme case of observation bias, or there is an actual, additional modifier when you hit left leg with all sort of weapons, as opposed to the right one.

Used to see em at Fred Meyer when I was a little jimmy. My uncle pursueded me against it because it was 'for big kids'.

>>5521452
I wish the original games had merch. I see plenty for Bethesda shit, but never Interplay/Black Isles era.

>>5523593
>Target shots against the groin
Why would you play any other way/

>>5522964
Even though the enemies became kinda tedious, it was the radiation poisoning that made me scared of the place. But hey, they warned you beforehand. I had to try my hand at the place three times before getting it in my first run.

>>5522173
Zoomers should be crucified.

>>5521860
Exactly. Can't expect much from Bethesda fans anyway.

>>5523584
>>5523589
wasteland 2 is kino and also worth checking out

>>5522919
They censored it because they are pussies.

Fallout 2 was my first real RPG and defined a lot about my perception of what I expect of RPG. Even though we couldn't figure out how to complete it.

I think what I like about it is quest structure - having small locations, each with individual story and small number of relatively short, but branching plotlines. What other games actually does it this way?

>>5523746
Wasteland 2 is half-baked game that never lived to not just legacy of the original, but even own potential. The game as released was so bad, you literally can't buy it anymore in a non-DC version. The amount of things that were cut, removed, ignored and outright borked on purpose to cut corners is sickening.
And that's just in general regards, because the fucking state of combat system, even with DC version, is a joke. And a very unfunny one. They had a year of beta-testing, they had almost another year of extensive data collection from players when working on DC and they did absolutely NOTHING to fix the combat and make it something else than "4+n AR users + Token Sniper"
On the plus-side, they've also did a remaster of original Wasteland, so it's something.

t. still bitter beta-tester

>>5523746
>>5524391
Oh, and to not sound like someone just bashing the game:
I love quests from the game. I love how branched things are, so you can easily forget why you even visited given location, because you get so god-damn busy with side-quests and side-side-quests. Probably only TW3 scratched my itch for branching side-quests the same way as W2 did.
So in the end I always end up replaying the game with super-bad and super-boring combat and undercooked gameplay just to enjoy some of the quests.

>>5524391
Director's Cut was alright though.

>>5521452
I like F1 because it uses classless system and because optional content doesn't feel disconnected from main story.

F2: Or How I Stop Worrying About My Dying Tribe and Became Pornstart is a borderlands 2-tier memefest (except for boomers) and it's story lacks focus.

>>5521452
For separate reasons
1 builds a much much better and more thematically rich world, with more pitfalls and dangers, more external happenings (things occur based on the players actions, but not necessarily to the player), and more interesting quest lines early in the game. It's a more whole, congruous game experience.

2 brings all the chuft for the gameplay, with huge and difficult dungeons that require you to strategize and plan ahead. Of course you can also just level a cavalcade of douchebags to romp over everything in your sight. Bonus points for removing the party limit someway. There's more guns, bigger bads to cook up with said guns, more ways to approach things in general, and the sheer number and diversity of NPCs can bring another level of exploration to the game. Considering NPCs bring a skill now too, they can also enhance the exploration experience.

Overall I find playing 1 then 2 really helps to put each into perspective but Fallout of Nevada is kind of cooler than both thematically, although it's way tougher gameplay-wise.

>>5524445
Director's Cut is what the game should have been during release day, anon.
Instead, it's the final word in developing it, after spending years on fucking around. The amount of shit that got cut between "final beta" and W2 on release was insane. Then there is the state of W2 until the... 4th month patch. Which fixed the game, but by that time everyone was either pissed or bitter over how bad the release state was and how lackluster the gameplay was. By the time DC came out, damage was done and shit from DC is still lack-luster and only surface level. So in the end, rather than having fuck-huge edge from using Assault Rifles with entire squad and not bothering with anything else, DC gives you a (very limited) option to toy around with other weapons (and not all of them, anyway), so you end up still using AR for entire squad, just other options suck less.

>>5524530
Fallout of Nevada was awesome!

>>5524506
>Memout 2
>Check out how oldfag I am!
Daily reminder people found F2 fucking fantastic precisely due to the humour, you insufferable "do I fit in already" cunt

The later Fallout games are shit, so sure

Regarding both F1 & F2
>interesting setting
>many things to find, exploration is fun
>well written dialogues
>many things to do
>interesting stories

>>5524582
This. I really don't understant this whole "Fallout is serious business all the time, any joke means it's Borderlands"-mentality. I liked F2 more than F1 back in the day precisely because it has an air of dark humour about things, the zanier things are mostly special encounters that you aren't likely to find anyway (barring a few things, like the talking plant, but F1 had fucking Robin Hood).

>>5524530
isnt it in a poorly translated state? doesnt it ruin the mood?

>>5524568
Yes! The theme, the way their world works, and the sheer difference in the mechanics of gameplay as a result. I've never fucking feared the rats but ho'boy..
>>5524607
I'm seasoned with working alongside pseudo-translations. At New Reno and in some select other places, the translation absolutely garbles up and becomes dubious at best. 'Ruin' is a tall word but I could see how some would rather pass on it right now. Still, the translation is workable and google translating the walkthrough has gotten me far enough to progress when I'm stuck.

I'd highly suggest trying it. The world is worth it, the translation is not nearly as bad as I was led to believe (though exactly as formal as I was led)... although be prepared, it's much harder than FO1 (naturally that much moreso than FO2, of course).

>>5524582
>>5524604
In Fallout 1 those things didn't came at expense of story. Same with player expression.

Overloading your game with memes and references is a sign of lack of creativity and they become outdated pretty fast.

>>5524634
>t. never played Fallout 1
The game FUCKING OPENS with Pulp Fiction joke, you stupid cunt.

>>5524607
Depends on simple thing: Do you know just about any Slav language?
If so, the translation is passable, because you know where the people behind it were going.
If not - the game feels like a flat line most of the time, because the English version is a mess.

>>5524634
FO1/2 are basically defined by their pop references.
Why not just enjoy FO1 instead of 2? So bitter that you got to drag everyone down to your level of 'can't enjoy FO2'?
>inb4 thinly veiled insult as a reply

>>5524710
>is a mess
I've just met up with the bikers at their home base (after chasing them out of that town), and up til now exactly only New Reno has been badly translated enough that I'd say there's a problem. Everything else is fairly standard 'belt-run translation,' it's stiff and formal and lacks a lot of proper inflections but you'll manage by going off intuition from FO1/2 and as I said, there's a guide that can be hackneyed.

I guess I'd be down to help out too, and I've considered trying to do a 'proper' English walkthrough (or rather retranslating the current walkthrough).

>>5524724
Meanwhile, I just play it in Polish. And the Russian-to-Polish translation is spot on.

Pic related.

>>5524695
compare those two articles:
https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Fallout_cultural_references
https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Fallout_2_cultural_references

noticed something (tip: it has to do with numbers and "<")?

>>5524714
>FO1/2 are basically defined by their pop references.
true for 2, wrong for 1 (see above)
>Why not just enjoy FO1 instead of 2?
But I do. I do also believe we should criticize bad design.
>So bitter that you got to drag everyone down to your level of 'can't enjoy FO2'?
what does it even suppose to mean?

I wonder how much shit gets arbitrarily censored for political reasons in the Slav translations. There was already so much controversy in English countries simply because these games included elements like gay characters, irreligion and being able to harm child NPCs. For a while, it was difficult to find uncensored copies.

>>5524760
>t. seriously never played Fallout 1
Why are you so desperate to claim superiority of a game you clearly don't know? Or using a list that doesn't even have half the shit on it. Because seriously, Desert Rangers are name-dropped in F1 and it's not on your shitty list. So if anything, it's you and morons perpetuating lists like this not even being able to recognise something as a reference or a joke than anything else. But you still try to present F1 as this "super serious game about super serious stuff, no fun allowed".
What fucking for? Honest question.

>>5524760
>criticize bad design
We do. Everyone admits FO2 has shit storybuilding and worldbuilding compared to 1.

So why keep dredging up the point? Just need us to agree with you, specifically, or something? In fact, it's pretty much empirical fact that 1 is better-written, it's just that 2 is so much better in just about every other way.

Pop references are not why FO2 is bad. Mismatched story scope, unnecessary carryover elements, awkward thematic spread (tribals in the north of the map feels a bit unnecessarily forced to me), ridiculous combat difficulty curves depending on where you go and what skills you take. NPCs are generally imbalanced as all fuck, the game pretty much railroads small/energy + power armor with an NPC clusterfuck behind you. One of the worst parts of FO2 is the fact that it needs to be appended with patches galore and still bugs out and pulls CTD with some regularity after that.

But like, who hasn't beaten these points to death already?

Why are you so determined to make a point everyone else in the thread makes every time they bring up FO1&2?

>>5524823
... none at all, because not everyone is paper-skinned American, you dumb fuck

>>5524853

Yeah right. Censorship and banning are even worse in Slavic countries. It's like living in the 1600s.

>>5524760
>Those lists
Jesus H. Christ, is this what autism looks like?
Since fucking when "who's your daddy" is a pop-culture reference, but verbatim quotes from MacGyver, voiced by Richard Dean Fucking Anderson aren't?!

>>5524875
Any more wild claims taken from your ass about shit you clearly have no clue about and just shoot blind in the vaccum, hoping to hit something?
Do you even know what "Slavic countries" mean, or are so god-damn stupid to assume third of Europe (and that's already exclusing Russia) is some vague, uniform, homogenised being following the same law, culture norms and creed (not to mention alphabet) just because they happen to be Slavs?
Is this another glimmer of American education?

t. Dane

>>5524627
>>5524724
Did you heard about pic related, if so what are your hopes?

>>5524846
You should seriously focus on improving reading comprehension, because it's pretty bad.

>>5524850
>Why are you so determined to make a point everyone else in the thread makes every time they bring up FO1&2?
because I can :^)

>>5524905
I hope it captures its own niche in the wasteland like Nevada did.
>>5524881
>autism
They're gamepedia. There's a fair shot they're run by someone who's never actually played the games to completion.

>>5524913

>>5522620
Cry me a river, Jarpig

>>5524905
As an add-on to my previous statement, while Nevada was a strong contender and had its own niche, I'd very much like to see this game incorporate companions a little more. It would be nice to have 1-3 who are attached to quest lines. It doesn't even have to be more than one companion in the party at a time, it'd just be nice if I got something during practical gameplay.

Still, I'm most interested to see what kind of wasteland it wants. Nevada's disparate, poor, resource-stringent wasteland was a whole different survival experience and I liked it, a lot, and would like to see similar involvements of the 'survival' element.

Creative questlines like being your own nuka-cola supplier were a treat in Nevada and I'd like to see more of those ideas.

Out of FO in general... I'd like to see a winter-themed one.

>>5525038
Not the anon you are replying to, but are you at least remotely close to self-awarness to realise jRPG have post-apo as their setting more often than not, as opposed to cRPG, where there is a literal handful of games that aren't fantasy and even less post-apo ones? You can literally count all the examples on fingers of one hand

>>5522625
It means D&D changed alot in the 90s. It wasnt always a game system for heroic soecial snowflake high fantasy. Go to /tg/ and check the OSR thread. It used to be gritty highly lethal low fantasy

>>5523589
I really enjoyed Wasteland 2

>>5524391
Directors cut is good. And anyone with a brain expected sniping to be overpowered because it was in the old fallouts too. Agility stat is also broken in Fallout

>>5524567
None of this whining is relevant anon. It's like if someone wanted to get into WoW and you start complaining about how the game was 10 years ago. You're dumb and butthurt. Stop trying to make people not play a good game

>fallout 2 bad!
>symphony of the night bad!
Alright we get it /vr/ we're only allowed to like the second best game in a franchise
Hipsters

>>5525154
D&D was never low fantasy.

>>5525196
Fallout 2 is still good. Sotn is trash.

>>5524750
8
9
10

pornstar...
lol

>>5521813
this my dudes

i was also 13 at that time. that single game gave me a deeper and serious look at rpgs no console could ever compare to

>>5525340
strongest 16 year old pornstar ever

>>5525239
idk why sotn hate. game had such a good soundtrack

>>5521452
They're both just good crpgs, I always swing back and forth on which one's better though

>>5524881
Fallout 2 has random encounters that are full Monty Python skit parodies. I don't remember anything like that in Fallout 1.

>>5521554
>FO3
>my introduction to Fallout

zoom your ass right on out of here

>>5523651
>there is an actual, additional modifier when you hit left leg with all sort of weapons

Hold something in your right hand and swing it at the legs of the person standing in front of you

Which of their legs does it hit first

>>5521452
I don't. I'm 36, played them at release and found them dull compared to other RPGs of the time. Only people who thought that "swears" and "you can be a fluffer lollol" liked them.

>>5523305
>anyone who doesn't like that thing I like is a zoom

I'm 33, I just didn't have a PC capable of playing games until 98, torrents didn't exist then and I never bought PC games except AVP.

>>5526428
Depends on if you use a forward or back swing with said arm.
Ask me how I know you have no practical, real-world experience using tools or hand weapons

>>5526428
I'm left-handed, so I guess this escaped me - for me it's natural to always go where people aren't guarding themselves, since duh, right is for attack, not parry, right? Shit was always hilarious when we had ustawka.

>>5526306
>I don't remember it, so it doesn't exist
Aliens running away from Area 51, carrying Elvis say hello. And brahmins say moo, while Doctor Who run past them

>>5525190
>Combat system is dog-shit bad
>S-stop complaining!
It's almost as if I was on the official forum right now. Bonus points if you gonna say you never played Jagged Alliance in your life.

>>5526464
still a zoomer in heart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLJ1gyIzg78

>>5526306
in fallout 1 i found a alien saucer with an elvis painting and an alien blaster on it. Pretty ridiculous and in par with FO2

>>5526306
in fallout 1 i found a crashed alien saucer with an elvis painting and an alien blaster on it. Pretty ridiculous and in par with FO2

Fallout 2 had magical talking deathclaws. Not as a random encounter, but as main quest NPC.

>>5527117
no one is denying that they went overboard. There is also ghosts and other ludicrous shit on fo2

>>5521452
>without mentioning the later Fallout games
No!

>>5526306
I thought the crashed whale was FO1

>>5526306
Fallout 1 has Robin Hood in a thieves guild, and it's not even hard to find

>>5524634
>In Fallout 1 those things didn't came at expense of story

They don't in the second as well. The second one has a lot more content overall, good and bad.

>>5527173
That's a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference, not Monty Python.

>>5524349
same for me, but also things like random encounters and that awesome intro movie with Louis Armstrong had me instantly hooked.

>>5527121
>>5527117
Nothing wrong with Grampy Bonne

>>5521486
>>5521486
I prefer Arcanum, Planescape: Torment, and Baldur's Gate 1/2 to Fallout 1 and 2. I hate Fallout's combat and while the first one has a pretty great story, I still don't like its story as muchas PS:T and Arcanum's.

>>5527440
are you kidding me, all of these games except BG (which doesn't make it great either) have terrible combat, arcanum being the worst of them all.

Energy weapons or big guns?

>>5527462
big guns, rocket launcher or gtfo

>>5527462
>>5527465
Small Guns in F1
Unarmed in F2

>>5527443
Not him and while I do agree, I also want to play devil's advocate for Arcanum:
The combat only goes to shit around Quintarra or so. Prior to that it's servicable. Not bad, definitely not good, just works. By Quintarra it goes 200% retarded thanks to HP, AC and resist bloat, while damage just doesn't scale.

>>5522826
Why does a government/publicly traded company owned oil rig have enormous creepy faces on its side?

>>5527525
melee in 2 is awesome and sucks at the same time.

Sulik punching people across the map is cool at first but then becomes a nuisance very fast.

>>5527615
Why not just hybrid guns and melee?
Knock them away and hose them down

>>5527597
it's not that creepy, and the company is called Poseidon, so maybe they went with some mythology art, or this was just added all after the war.

>>5527597
Was Poseidon publically traded?
At any rate in fallout the enclave was essentially the illuminati and was controlling bits of the federal government and biggest companies, like Poseidon Energy, West Tek and Vault Tec.

>>5527597
There's creepy faces everywhere in the architecture of 1 and 2. That was the style they went for.

>>5527615
I said Unarmed, not Melee. Bare fists, rather than weapons for close combat.
Also, if you don't feel like punching holes in your enemies, you can punch them and then hose with bullets. Or hose with bullets and then punch holes in them when they get to you.

>>5527695
I said melee in a "non-ranged" combat. I believe punching also launches people around which is annoying even at max speed combat.
I wish the 3Ds fallout allowed for you to launch people away with punches

>>5527743
New vegas had the knockdown perk for melee combat called Super Slam! and a special move for some melee weapons called Mauler which had huge knock back. It also had the unarmed move Ranger Takedown and perk Paralyzing Palm which all caused knockdown

the setting
the incredible music
the writing
the graphics and artstyle
unironically the combat,I fucking love the death animations
even the voice acting is great

Fallout 1>Fallout 2

>>5527597
it looks cool

>>5527915
>unironically the combat,I fucking love the death animations

This is the part most people miss because... I don't know. They say FO1 and 2's combat is simple or boring.

Fallout 1 and 2 still have the most satisfying WRPG combat purely because of this. Take your bards and your magic spells, because Fallout 1+2 says he just whipped your ass.

>Fallout 1>Fallout 2

Wrong purely because of the lack of endings and actual roleplaying which FO2 does better in spades.

>>5527926
meh,Fallout 2 is wide as an ocean and deep as a puddle
I played Fallout 1 like 5+ times and i probably could replay it right now and have much fun with it,but replaying Fallout 2 feels like a huge chore for some reason

>>5527930
Maybe you just don't like choice in your RPGs, my dude

Broken Hills literally shits on anything in FO1 choice wise. What's the deepest part of FO1 when it comes to endings? Gizmo and Killian? Yawn

Not to mention the factions in New Reno which is typical of the genre for a reason.

Myron alone is more complex in FO2 than anyone in Fallout 1, unvoiced or voiced. I still really like FO1, but where are the choices?

>>5527926
what pisses me off on f2 is how some parts of the game were clearly rushed, like san fran, broken hills, you can clearly see they didnt even care to place items on houses.

I love it but never really finished and don't feel like playing it again. Now F1 for whatever reason is nice to replay, maybe because its short.

>>5527949
Fallout 1 literally has an entire cut gang that gets referenced but is never shown in the Boneyard

Or how about not being able to solve the Iguana Bob thing.

Or how about finding the spy in the Followers

Fallout 1 def has its unfinished moments

>>5527943
I love choices in RPGs,but "choices" don't necessarily make a game good, at the end of the day it only affects some cutscenes at the end of the game
the problem with Fallout 2 is it's writing and the fact that it is filled with pop culture references,which completely ruins the gritty atmosphere that the first game established
I like how you mention New Reno,overall I enjoyed the aesthetic of the place and the track there is great, but boy oh boy is it filled with pop culture references and "comedy",which are not fitting to the Fallout setting at ALL in such massive doses
oh yeah and also fallout 4-tier rape of the lore by introducing talking rat cults and talking deathclaws
there are MANY choices in Fallout 1,like killing the Khans or not,saving Tandi or not,choosing Gizmo or Killain in Junktown,stealing the waterchip from Necropolis and leaving them to die,or helping them fix their waterpump,choosing The Regulators or the The Blades in Boneyard,helping Decker or turning him in to the Sheriff
there are plenty of fucking choices in Fallout 1, also Fallout 2 doesn't have the Lieutenant

>>5527983
old on all except the ripper

>>5527974
You're missing the quality forest for the pop culture trees my dude. Da Lou is expertly voice acted, has one of the best death animations, etc

But he's pretty weak on the reactivity front - Myron has so many ways he can react to you, whether you're a male or female, a retard or even a pretty female retard, etc.

Not to mention unlike most other NPC followers, he has tons of dimension as a character, and I love that gamer nerds don't like him and attack him, as if they hate seeing themselves in a mirror.

Yes, there are choices in FO1, but they utterly pale in comparison to the stuff you can do in FO2. Vanilla FO2 is still a chunky game. Restored endings mod with FO1? Game still feels pretty lightweight.

>>5527974
Also if you love the feeling of a grimdark setting with 0 pop culture or comedy, I'd think you'd like Ultima 8. It's gory, dark and creepy, which is why I loved Fallout 1.

>>5521486
I have adhd and I just used a guide, so it’s not that. I don’t think these people even try them before they shit on them

>>5527597
art deco, same as in Bioshock

>>5527960
yes thats true but on f2 there are entire towns rushed and left clearly undone

>>5521486
>>5521489
>>5521592
>>5521813
I hadn't ever heard of it, came across it in the double disk pack in like '01 because I got a new computer that could actually play shit due to college loans. But even 4 years after it came out it was still gold.

Main reason I liked it is because, and I didnt know it at the time, its the way they did game balancing that wasn't uber anal about how things were set up or paced. Sometimes random encounters could wipe you, sometimes you could get a lucky shot and make alot of progress (like those "mini deathclaw" caves where you could rack up XP like crazy).

And there's such a thing as RANDOM ENCOUNTERS and enemies being able to MISS you, and being able to be surrounded on all sides and still managed to get out. You know that Power Armor suit? Yeah you could end up getting away with taking hardly any damage from alot of enemies, knives and punches and even the standard pistols did almost nothing to that. And there was no fucking durability shit to worry about (though, on a critical hit, you could end up with a damaged weapon or a broken arm, but it was pretty rare). The successors didnt get any of that right.

Graphically everything was gritty and dirty. The framerates for animations were okay but they weren't like 60hz smooth. The audio was gritty and perverse rather than high pitched and clean (load up that 14mm pistol sound effect from FO1). It gives it character and soul.

Fallout 1 was the better of the two because of the sheer feeling of being lonesome and delving into a hostile empty world where every second that ticked by on the world map travelling felt like the lady rattling off depth numbers in The Abyss. Going places like The Glow and the Necropolis or heading to the Military Base by yourself for the first time was nailbiting and instilled a sense of gratitude for the game being turn based.
More or less, the world was desolate.

FO2 had all the quality of life improvements, and length, that FO1 needed. Thats all.

>>5527303
>Monty Python.
Are you implying that as soon as a Monty Python reference is in any way shape or form incorporated into a video game it becomes silly and unbearable?
Fuck you, Xoomer.

>>5527091
I don't have to like every single /vr/ approved game. I'll still probably try to play Fallout 1 again at some point, but I never can stick with a PC game long enough to finish it because playing them isn't comfortable on a shitty laptop.

I'm about to start my first playthrough and I want to do an explosives character since that sounds wacky and fun, does it work? If not are there some other hidden gem of a builds

>>5529282
Which game? Fallout 2 is much better for wacky builds if that's what you want.

But Fallout 1 and 2 don't have an explosives skill. Explosive weapons are dived up between the Big Guns, Traps and Throwing Skills.

>>5529291
Gonna start with 1, but will play 2 right after, is it possible by doing some hybrid of those 3 categories?

>>5527743
>I believe punching also launches people around
Only if you hit the places that would stagger you IRL. Meanwhile, aiming for legs means someone is on the ground (making following hits all that easier and wasting AP to get up), but DOESN'T move away.

>>5529304
Unfortunately, explosives aren't that effective in Fallout 1/2.

Throwing's pretty bad outside of gimmick throwing flare builds. Grenades are pretty scarce in early and midgame, and they deal far too little damage to lategame enemies.

Traps is also pretty useless. You only need it on a couple of places where there are explosives that you can disable, but they're mostly an inconvenience, really. You can plant explosives on NPC's pretty effectively without any skill points invested in Traps.

Big Guns is the most effective skill out of these, if you combine the Rocket Launcher with other heavy weapons (such as the Flamethrower, Minigun, and the Bozar in Fallout 2), although still far worse that Small Guns/Energy Guns builds, since you have far less range, can attack less times per turn, and you have to carry a bunch of really heavy weapons and ammunition in your limited inventory.

>>5521452
1-The story
2-action
3-charecter development
4-music
5-replayabilty

>>5529520
Big guns is almost a requirement for fallout 2, though. Enclave Troopers shrug off energy weapon damage and small guns in general aren't as strong as either. Only exceptions would be the emp weapons for energy and gauss guns for small guns.
Big Guns has a lot more weapons that can actually take on Enclave soldiers. The rocket launcher included.

>>5529729
Thing is, by the time that you're fighting enclave soldiers, you'll probably have the Better Criticals perk and maybe Sniper, which means that you just kill power armor dudes with instant-death crits.

>>5525234
You don't know shit then, kid

>>5527996
to be fair he was a major badass and he deserved a good death animation. They went a little OB with it but yeah he was kinda hard to put down when helped by the others.


And to most of these following issues the Armor/Ammo Variant system is inaccurate and broken in the first two games. Though it probably could be fixed and the unofficial patch kinda fixed it a little...
>>5529520
Neither are Shotguns which is a pretty big oversight.
The damage should be more like 20-40 but with a strong benefit to armor.
I understand the need for balance, but the starter and more common shotguns could've been like 20 or 28 gauge models. I say 28 because thats specifically a sporter cartridge, and with this being its own setting they could handwave that as being comfortable for teens to shoot and as common as bottle caps before the war.

The rocket launcher doesnt do enough damage either, and there's no problem with having it aimed at you because you can see that shit coming. Add +50 damage to the minimum and maximum and it starts making more sense.
Fallout Tactics fixed those issues including with grenades and explosives but they got the Shotgun stuff wrong and it became too overpowered.

There is also a distinct lack of, for explosives... Impacts vs. Splash damage. If you're not directly hit by the explosive and you're not in the same hex/tile where it went off, you should take alot less. That way the damage can be increased alot more.

>>5529737
>>5529729
Enclave Troopers are a minor part of the game and you pretty much dont even encounter them until the end of the game.
Big Guns is very useful but the .223 pistol with eye shots does tend to remain the goto alternative.
> better criticals and sniper
By that point in the game I usually have Slayer. Virtually all of the plot-driven locations where you find Enclave Troopers you will be able to draw them into close quarters or bottleneck them. That being Navarro or the Oil Rig.

>>5521452
>great art direction, atmosphere and music
>progression from a naked retard with a gun and some bullets to an armored war machine
>decent quests, lots of player choices
The combat sucks ass though.

>>5521501
>>5521513
>>5522570
>>5522583
>>5522625
>>5525154
>>5525234
>>5529749
>>5525092
IMO the appeal of Fallout 1 and 2 is the joy of being able to get a major advantage due to chance because of being able to reach some areas sooner (or on your own) than you should, and being able to get strong loot out of random encounters before you'd normally get it.

Eg... Fallout 1, go to Necropolis and get the Plasma Pistol. Or in fallout 2 go to the den and kill the merchants and take their weapons (desert eagle, shotgun, 44 magnum, hunting rifle) and then get the assault rifle from the ghost farm in modoc. And many other examples sometimes very extreme ones... goto navarro, get the power armor... stock up and just go to the glow and get the minigun/plasma/combat armor.

Virtually any other game will erect an invisible bush to keep you from doing things like that. While in fallout you can do that stuff... and making sure the need to savescum to get it or sometimes the lethality even when you're playing by the book provides the balance. If you want power armor you have to deal with mutants or enclave patrols. If you want stuff 3-5 levels above your paygrade you have to deal with more raider encounters where they blow you away with shotguns and hunting rifles.

> D&D was never low fantasy
Unironically it actually was. Multiclassing was barely a thing prior to 3rd edition, and classes actually had requirements for you to take them so you would be typecast into a role.
Barbarians and Fighters were a thing and they actually beat stuff up rather than trying to be fighting-in-name-only and do their thing all through magic items and funky dbz techniques.

5th edition brought back some of that blandness, the characters are less interesting kinda like they were back in AD&D. I dont really like it honestly because the only thing not-bland about them is their hit points.
Dying over and over again and rerolling characters was easier in the old systems. Because it was that quick.

>>5529923
And more about those issues
One of the good things about Fallout 1 and 2 is they are NOT Social games. There arent that many people in them, you really are pitted more against the environment and the things there.

The sense of desolation is supposed to be exciting, nailbiting, get into the setting and feel a slight sense of sorrow about things being so bleak. But at the same time not plain like endless suburban sprawl, there's things out there that will kill you, and you can get lost, and it can take trial and error to even find what you're looking for.

Quests are just a plot mechanic to make you go out into that shit and give you a general-thataway direction to go in. The role you're playing in these rpgs is a Scout. Everything else is secondary and in the end you'll just happen to save people's butt, but you're not the shining hero everyone is hoping will save them.

In later games, in other modern rpgs... its one quest after another and you're fetchboy, you've got a job to do and the wasteland isnt even a wasteland at all its more like Australia in the first mad max movie. And considering the spiders have health bars down there, its not entirely inaccurate.

And about D&D actually the real fun of the game was exploration along the same lines. Needing to prepare for the trip to some place nobody comes back from. Knowing there's certain kinds of threats up in the snowy mountains but not knowing wtf is going on or even what condition the target location is in. Having to improvise. Having party members die and not having a replacement so you have to do without your healer, etc.
The cringe that comes when you have to set up watch and the DM starts getting specific about the details (oh WTF...)
Or when you realize there's too much treasure in copper and silver and its way too much to carry back.

Practical problems like these, and not necessarily getting solutions handed to you either. The infinity engine games might be ad&d but they only had some of this.

>>5529758
>The rocket launcher doesnt do enough damage either, and there's no problem with having it aimed at you because you can see that shit coming. Add +50 damage to the minimum and maximum and it starts making more sense.
What about the difference between normal and armor piercing rockets?

The "limited" text based dialogue system made it possible to have more varied role playing experience with more character tailored conversations. Your dumb character was actually slow witted, the dialogue was something a slow person would say, and NPCs reacted to it realistically. Same applies with the gameplay, all the action was portrayed with recycled animations while the actual habbening was told in the text box. Imagination was big part of the gameplay, just like it should be in role playing games.

I also really like the humor, violence, and plot.

>>5529992
not enough to make a difference also the ammo variant mechanics are broken.
In the case of the RL its supposed to be a cannon but it doesnt do as good a job as it ought to for that role. The ammo is heavy and rare and the weapon is slow and has to be reloaded after every shot. It should accomplish progress every time its fired. To be frank the Flamer is Twice the weapon the RL is even though you have to be close to use it.
That effectively makes it useless. I mean it can do damage, but it isnt what its supposed to be.

You wanna know how much damage that does to Deathclaws, even on a direct hit? The fact it has a good chance to not one-shot a SM should tell you alot. Though when it comes to the 'claws being a boogeyman monster for the game I can accept it shouldnt one-shot those either.
> But I still want to see it do at least 100 damage to a deathclaw, or anyone else.
Remember, the RL cant do targeted shots. No eye spamming. And for 3 pound rockets for every shot yeah, it ought to mean serious business.

>>5529729
>Big guns is almost a requirement for fallout 2, though
Gauss Rifle, 130-140% in Small Arms and you are set. It's by far the best weapon in the game and doesn't require to lug around half a tonne of ammo to be efficient.

>>5530028
>>5529982
>>5529923
Another cool thing about the first game and second game somewhat is you can end up solving quests or getting stuff without having been given the quest up front.

Like the BOS operative who has been kidnapped. I dont think the BOS guards at the bunker actually tell you that someone has gone missing. But that house in the Hub I think if you even go in the door the people guarding the guy will light you up without a word or they're generally assholes and its easy to get them to fight you (and they arent easy either). So the guy is there and you rescue him and just kinda stumbled upon what amounts to a suit of power armor, just like that.

And in FO2 you can run into the guy in the Den who ran away from the ghost farm in modoc, and talk it out of him and you already have that quest half done by the time you get to the ghost farm. I think its also possible to get "conned into" getting the fuel cell regulator in gecko, before even bothering with the car in the den, and when you go back to the den smitty will ask you for it straight up.
Try that in another game and the subject of the quest probably will not have been spawned or offered those options for you to get it completed before you even started.

>>5530130
Yep, also if you blow through san francisco after soaking up the quest xp there you can collect ALOT of guns and ammo for it too. Those chinese guards carry those weapons I think (and have an unrealistic amount of health just like enclave guards).
There is also alot of ammo for it and the 4.7mm in the toxic gecko caves near the beginning of the game.

>>5530152
all the guards in SF either have caseless or gauss ammo, all you need is a little bit of steal and savescumming and you are set for life for ammo.
also, the random encounters near SF have enemies carrying these types of ammo.

>>5521452
They're fun

>>5530041
I was exploding the huge groups of SMs all through the army base, and they would leave more rockets in their gibs poles. It was like playing doom.

I dunno if it was my mod or my perks.

Child killing perk.

>>5521813
I was around 13 at the time, but I played it years after its original release, because I live in a post-communist country and my family was never well-off. Loved it well enough to get Fallout 2 (a couple years later) and Fallout Tactics (6 years later?).

I still remember the nightmare I had after watching the cut-scene you get after betraying Vault 13, and how I woke up sleep-paralyzed in the middle of the night, absolutely convinced that a super mutant is sitting in my room behind my back, just waiting for me to turn around.

Good times.

>>5521452
I like it but it's one of my favourite CRPGs. I don't like the combat and the sidequests are pretty fucking overrated. Also the game isn't that revolutionary since it's praised for things that earlier titles like Dark Sun already did.

>>5532085
Oh and also never fucking forget that one time where I was talking to the Master, had already seen the 'mutant sterility' holodisk and downloaded it to my pip-boy, already had the prerequisite intelligence but I had to fight the cunt because I threw away the holodisk I had to give to him even though I practically have it downloaded on my pip-boy.

I really enjoy the atmosphere, art direction, haunting music, and the general challenge.
Believe it or not, but I enjoy the turn based combat, and the inventory, while has obvious flaws, doesn’t really bother me much. I also find the dated graphics to be charming in all its gritty ness.
It’s hard for me to decide which one I like more, because each has their strengths and weaknesses, I’d have to say that 1 had the better story, and more balanced weapons, while 2, despite being campy at times, I enjoy the humor and protagonist more, who could be such a smart ass at times and I like the bigger map.
It’s a tossup really depending how I feel about the two in the moment

https://timedwatcher.blogspot.no/2018/12/fallout-1-sex-text-because-sexout-was.html

I've very recently replayed the entirety of Fallout, after many years in fact, and it has not aged well. And I'm not talking about graphics.

1. The story is very simplistic and bare-bones.
2. The are many, many dump stats/skills, which is especially noticeable in such a short game.
3. Beyond a few skills, the vast majority are used a scant few times.
4. Most of the dialogues are not really dialogues, since very few NPC's have anything resembling a personality/mannerisms. Fallout 2 may be too "memey", but it's a vast improvement in this regard.
5. Most locations are empty, even settlements. Necropolis comes as a good example, where there are what? Two quests and three NPC's with unique conversations?

>>5521813
Agree - FO1 was the bomb.
I played it after Fallout3 and was blown away at how fascinating it was. FO3 was an awesome game but the old ones are superior experiences. Played it with headphones and entering The Glow was pure magic - music, setting ... superb atmosphere.

>>5525072
>Out of FO in general... I'd like to see a winter-themed one.
O fuck, can you imagine how bleak a Fallout Alaska would be?

>>5533997
bleak compared to present alaska?

>>5521487
now it's 1 cent tho

>>5533997
Fallout: Kansas City?

>>5533825
This.

Only this.

Holy shit the mere feeling of Fallout 1 is superior to most other games I have played. They did so much infinitely right with the atmosphere.

>>5521452
>right click on anything, get info about it
>use items on scenery, sometimes get result
>shoot at people through windows then move to the side; they come at you without being able to shoot back
>ambiance/music
>lots of skill/ability checks, lots of things to gain exp with
>fun to level up and find new gear
>stays hard until you get power armor and can reliably shoot eyes, and even then you can get fucked over if you aren't careful
>can target legs to slow people down, arms to inhibit two-handed weapons or lower accuracy, eyes to just kill people quicker if you're good enough
>guns have alternate fire modes
>is actually fun to slog through, fun to puzzle out what to do next and how to do it
>lots of things to find via exploration; will only be found by exploring on your own

bad
>how ugly and downtrodden everything looks even though its been a hundred or more years since the apocalypse; every shelf is broken, every bed is a dirty mess, etc

>>5521813
I was born in 88 but didn't touch fallout until 2007. Loved it a ton all the same. This was a year before I got broadband internet and about half a year before F3 was announced (or came out? don't know). I didn't play through 2 until early 2009 or 2010; didn't like it as much. Got tactics several years later, hated it.

>>5522194
>because it gave me the type of choices and dilemas no game prior did
especially in dialogue; I remember getting my ass handed to me and having the realization "I need to take this much more seriously".

>>5522570
that's how I feel about "realistic" games
at least fallout has some fantasy elements and plays like a fantasy game, just with guns instead of spells

>>5523113
>Underrail
my favorite game, despite it not being "fantasy"
the mechanics and gameplay are just top notch

>>5524391
it was super flawed, but I dumped a bunch of time into it and loved it anyway; it's upsides were so good for me that I could ignore it's downsides. Can't say I would recommend it to other people, but it was great for me.
I played the non-DC version first on Ranger and liked that more than my DC run on Supreme Jerk (which was easier), I also disliked how the DC looked and some of the changes it made.
4 AR users and a Sniper is pretty close to how a real-life squad would look.

>>5529729
first and only time I played through 2, I had the power armor and was using the gauss pistol to shoot people 6 times a turn with the sniper feat

>>5530130
gauss pistol is better
I think energy pistols are even better but I didn't go that route.

>>5532390
playing anything after underrail is pain, but that doesn't mean it wasn't good at the time

>>5533825
>The Glow was pure magic - music, setting ... superb atmosphere
I still feel bad for that fucking computer.

>>5527064
>>5527098
Fair enough, but this was only if you had 10 LCK, where a bit of absurdity might be expected. I've never actually done a full 10 LCK playthrough myself because it's pretty much like playing with cheats. The Monty Python shit from FO2 was almost unavoidable.

>>5535297
The talking stone head, and the star gate back to the past in Vault 13 were amazing.
I don’t give a shot if anons think Fallout 2’s humor is memey, I love it, and I love how much the chosen one can be such a smart ass

>>5521554
>FO3
>my introduction to Fallout
Leave

>>5527068
>combat system is bad
I had a grand old time with it, much more so than I did in FO1 & 2
git gud casual

you can become the king of porn

>>5535930
>Combat system is plain, boring and painfully simplistic, with almost zero tactical depth
>g-git gud
Thing is - I'm too fucking good for this brain-dead combat system. It offers not only no challenge, since AI is fucking retarded and runs toward your positions, but also lacks any sort of variety or creativity on your side. It's just "arm your squad with AR and gun down everything that even tries to get close".
Wow, such an amazing combat system, with such hard challenges all over the game!

>>5535297
>Fair enough, but this was only if you had 10 LCK
Nope
>I've never actually done a full 10 LCK playthrough myself because it's pretty much like playing with cheat
Nope
>The Monty Python shit from FO2 was almost unavoidable.
Nope

Have you tried at least once playing games you are praising or complaining about? Because you didn't made a single true statement in your entire post

>>5521860
Not him but why? Not saying his shitpost isn't shit or anything...

Garbageout 3 was my introduction to Fallout as well. I did play Wasteland before that, tho...

>>5536449
>Garbageout 3 was my introduction to Fallout as well. I did play Wasteland before that, tho...
Also not the anon you are replying to, but I guess you solved your own issue all by yourself

>>5535930
I'm sorry, are you actually trying to claim W2 has a combat system that is anything, but made for the biggest casuals around, so they can show their "tactical" skills?

>>5536434
in the DC, it's not very hard, sure
in the original it's fucking hard because the enemies are so much tougher than you; you have to REALLY use good positioning and moment-to-moment tactics and still get a little bit lucky or you're fucked

DC was a bore in comparison

>>5536480
b-b-b-b-b-b-butthurt

>>5523113
>>5523129
>>5523584
play Fallout: Nevada
it's mechanically superior to Fallout 2. on par or better than Underrail.

>>5536913
>in the original it's fucking hard because the enemies are so much tougher than you; you have to REALLY use good positioning and moment-to-moment tactics and still get a little bit lucky or you're fucked
... nope?
Vanilla made it so god-damn bad with AI and combat in general, all you needed was a single sniper attacking AI from afar. They then just started to charge toward you, leaving their perfectly fine positions and being sitting ducks in the open. Plus all you could do was choice between regular shot or headshot, which in 9 out of 10 situations dealt less damage than regular shot. And in vanilla, by the time you are half-way through either Highpool or Ag Center, ammo is no longer an issue, so even that is shaved off from difficulty.
The game is only challenging if you deliberately make shitty rangers (or pick premades) and then do stupid shit on purpose. Especially in vanilla.

>>5539149
yes
reread my last post, cuz obviously you didn't
or maybe actually try the original and see for yourself, go ahead and pick supreme jerk since you're such a genius

>>5539158
I been a fucking beta-tester for that game, I've played each and every itteration since relese.
The combat system is just plain retarded and everything that made it even remotely interesting got cut between pre-release builds and vanilla 1.0 version. The entire balance went to shit and guess what? Nobody even bothered to open reports containing data on that until December '14 patch came out.

>>5539158
Different anon, but let's examin vanilla (and most of it is still valid in DC):
>Arm entire squad with AR and SR
>You now out-range 90% of enemies in the game
>Combat can be initiated any time, any moment, so you can pre-emptively fire at long range for no AP cost and then still have your round as if nothing
>Due to poor balance, almost all weapons are using similar values of AP, while being literal pea-shooters when compared with AR and SR
>Any weapon that isn't AR and SR deals either poor damage, has poor range, poor AP costs or any combination of the three (rebalanced in DC, still far from perfect, but at least an attempt was made)
>Melee is so bad you are just asking for being gunned down (DC buffed it significantly)
>You can easily get top weapons for Arizona before you even head to Damonta
>You can also get the best weapon in the game while still in Arizona and half-way through it (nerfed significantly in DC)
>You gain for free OP as fuck recruit that single-handly can take down any challenge (Angela got nerfed in DC)
How the fuck anyone can claim this game has anything, but worst imaginable combat system, where 8 out of 10 weapon classes are utter crap, the remaining 2 are OP as fuck, and the entire combat boils down to taking pot-shots at people who need to spend 2-3 rounds to even get into range of their weapon and the only person having any benefit (or brain to even use it in the first place) from positioning and covers is human, since AI can't into own combat system.
But worst of it all, there is no way to make it hard. Not even in the sense of fake difficulty, since the game already throws at you all the solutions from the start. The only hard part of W2 is the short recon mission to find what happend to Ace, aka the very opening, when your skills are trash and your weapons are even worse.

>>5539193
>everything that made it even remotely interesting got cut
like what?

>>5539223
yeah, that's all a given, it was still hard for me on ranger

but I just realized what the difference might between my experience and yours; I played 10 int characters so I could cover all the skills (except toaster repair, fists, leadership, and I think animal whisperer after a while) who had just enough initiative to be better than average, so in a sense I was challenging myself with a sub-optimal combat party

If I had played guys with better physical stats and spent less points on non-combat skills (I hate not being able to pick a lock or whatever) then the combat would probably have been a fair bit easier.

>>5539228
Like actual weapon balance, so you had a solid reason to arm your squad with varied weapons, because they indeed covered each other in their niche.
Instead 3/4 of that stuff was cut (the only reminder is shotguns and their AoE damage), AR got buffed into the status described by >>5539223 and they never bothered to really do anything about it.
In other words, they've had a semi-decent combat, but then someone in the dev team said "Hey, remember how in W1 we had so many weapon types that were shit and bait for noobs to waste point onto? Let's bring that back!"

>>5539240
>Like actual weapon balance, so you had a solid reason to arm your squad with varied weapons, because they indeed covered each other in their niche.
yes but how so?

>>5539237
There is literally no need to have any ranger with more than 4 Int. Especially in vanilla release, where various checks were lower.
In other words, your claim is now as stupid as every zoomer who bitches they can't eye-hit a rat in F1, while they've made Ag 4 with Good Nature trait and didn't tag a single combat skill. Because you made non-combat party and then described how hard the combat is. It's not. It was your non-combat party that made it "hard" (since skill creep quickly overcomes it anyway, so while suffering from low Initiative, you still have superior aim)

>>5529841
>combat sucks ass though
Fakest of fake news, only saw this meme come out a few years ago and zoomers have been parroting it ever since

>>5539247
I was still barely treading water with most skills. I think you keep talking about DC without realizing it, where everything really was a lot easier.

>>5539246
>Handguns costing close to no AP, so while being short range and on the weak side of damage, having a chance to empty entire magazine in single round
>SMGs having better balance of damage and armour-piercing, with each tier catching up more and more toward AR, until they could deliver much more pain in the end
>Heavy Guns having much lower chances to jam
>All sort of melee attacks applying various debuffs (or buffs), so the enemy had hard time fighting you, unless also turning to melee
>Energy weapon having other parts of the axis between "meh" and "utterly broken OP bullshit"

>>5539253
>Get repeatively told the game wasn't hard
>Along with descriptions why
>N-no, you are just talking about different games
Or maybe you are a retard who can't play game that's sold as tactical shooter RPG or build a character worth a damn. Both Rose and VC have enough Int (along with their skills) to cover for you, so does Angela Deth, the best thing in vanilla release. Not my fault you didn't recruit your crutches (and the only good followers out there, sans maybe Ralphy), but this is again on you - you fucked up, not the game.

>>5539253
Vanilla had lower skill checks than DC, what the hell you are even talking about?

>>5539265
the game is fine, I'm just saying it's (vanilla) harder than what you're telling everybody
either you're failing lots of skill checks (which my autism can't handle), or combat is gonna be pretty hard (it still will be, regardless; some of the fights are bullshit and luck hates you in this game)

>>5539274
if it did, then why was DC so much easier in that regard with basically the same party?

>>5539282
But it isn't. If you have higher test on skill checks, how they are "easier"?

>>5539389
im saying they aren't

>>5529923
>blandness,
You list everything that made old D&D awesome and then call it bland. Video game nerds have ruined RPGs and I hate you

>>5525072
>>5533997
Wasteland 3 is going to be Winter themed, set in the rocky mountains I believe. It was supposed to come out this year but I think it's been delayed I haven't checked on it in awhile

>>5539456
>2013+6
>He still didn't get the memo Fargo is a hack
Mate, W3, if it ever will came out, it will make the shitstorm around Broken Age look like a small fart

>>5539421
>t. 3.X zoomer, living in invented reality

>>5539638
>3.X zoomer
3.0 is as old as the oldest zoomers
there are no 3.x zoomers

>>5539662
>there are no 3.x zoomers
And yet here you are, acting like a fucking grog about 3.X and talking bullshit about prior editions.

>>5539665
I never said anything about any other editions. I was born in 88. Just stating a fact that people born in the year 2000 or later aren't going to be hardcore fans of the edition that came out in 2000.

>>5539679

Tried it in 2009 and couldn't get into it but came back to 1 and 2 in 2013 and loved them.

>>5523691
i never do anon. this is why nobody fucks with the Tribe.

>>5539258
You described everything underrail did to improve upon the fallout formula.

>>5540446
I'm more or less aware of that (never played a "heavy" character in Underrail, so can't attest for those builds). Which is part of the reason why I'm so annoyed by final state of Wasteland 2 - they had it and they cut it, for no reason whatsoever. Then they utterly neglected all the feedback asking for its return

>>5536437
>dude you can totally get the Alien Blaster with 6 LCK if you wander the desert for a few hours straight
Metagaming retard

>>5540735
stop being upset about brian turdgo games, the guy is a retarded faggot. literally the peter molyneux of pc games. tons of promises, few kept. many such cases. still no wasteland 2 sdk. the idiot literally reneged on stretch goals and doesn't give a shit about it.

>>5521485
t. retarded zoomer underage b&

Faggot both 1 and especially 2 were wildly popular 97-98 and the early 2000s. No Mutants Allowed was founded back then, they actually did coverage of the development and releases of Fallout 2, the shitty PS2 Fallout and Fallout 3.

Just because you didn't know about them at the time because you weren't fucking born yet doesn't mean we all didn't as well. I preordered Fallout 2 at a local game shop. Holy fuck kill yourself

>>5521501
>BoS was alright for what it was
LEAVE IMMEDIATELY AND FOREVER

>>5538660
Have they even finished it yet?

>>5521452
great mad max simulator, unarmed runs are fun as hell

>>5540987
>Missing the point
>This fucking hard
Anon, are you fine? Have you ever heard about the concept of irony?

>>5540871
>Here, let me quote a claim nobody ever made
Regular retard

>>5540971
Anon, I'm perfectly aware what kind of asshat Fargo is, along with the fucked up production process of W2.
What I can't understand is the decision to have something in the game and then cut it. It wasn't even about being unfinished, unpolished or something like that. No, they just had a content and then cut it. Along with the entire clusterfuck around W2 a fucking YEAR overdue premiere while releasing a game bugged to hell and back while ignoring entire feedback from beta-testers and essentially doing nothing for that year are just the peak of the mountain of issues it just makes me confused. Because it feels like he didn't want to make easy money by providing something he already made and then cut everything that made it good. It's like you've promised people a three course dinner, cook it, then throw it into garbage and order a shitty pizza from a local joint, serving it to people.

>>5540987
You're the retard giving that guy a reply like that
Never breed you fuckwit

>>5521592
>It's like asking why do you like pizza. You can't really pin it why

>>5541404
yes
>>5541501
he's just incompetent

>>5541501
The beta really annoyed me. Ignoring all those bug reports, giving no feedback, almost no updates even.

Can I make some kind of melee/explosives hybrid in fallout 1?

>>5543829
melee, throwing, and traps are all skills, and there's not many (maybe any) good feats for throwing and traps, so yeah

>>5541491
He is really fucking bad at it then.

>>5542198
Go fuck yourself repulsive degenerate nigger

I played FO2 the tear it came out. The freedoms that I had to do nearly anything I wanted was awesome for an RPG at the time. I didn't know what to do in Redding and the stockpile of shotgun shells was getting a bit heavy. Shortly after Redding only existed as a ghost town. I decided I was a bad person at that point. Went good boy for the rest of the game. Didn't stop the mercenaries from hunting me till after the game ended. Pro tip, they dont care if you have the Paragon of Light for Karma score, being a Child killer is a bad thing.
Oh, and you can get married, then realize you made yet another mistake because they're a worthless pos and not even a pack mule, always fun to sell them off to slavery. Or just plant some explosives on them and walk away.

>>5539665
3rd edition is the worst D&D

The thing I dislike about fallout 1&2 is that small guns is the only good choice for combat, you wont find any big guns or energy weapons until late so until then you're just playing a scuffed small weapons so you might as well just go full with it, you can make melee work but its not that good,

>>5544168
no

whatever faggy shit we got now is

>>5544997
that's what the tag perk is for

>>5544116
getting married in fallout is the biggest meme

>>5521554

>>5544997
unarmed is one of the strongest builds in the game. instant kill many npc's, instant knockout most of them. you're just terrible. melee weaps is really strong too.

>>5545095
Anon, don't want to break it for you, but 3.X is the peak bad D&D, mechanically. Fluff-wise, nobody really cares, since nobody uses that shit anyway. If you are more preoccupied about fluff than crunch, then you never really played any edition at all and are just a fucking faggot offended by some content that has jack shit to do with the game itself.
Either way, 3.X was cancer that turned D&D from a game about going into scary dark holes and getting rich or killed into retarded standard generic hero's journey simulator, WITHOUT any mechanical accomodation for that. That and creating not only caster supremacy, but driving it to logical extreme by 3.PF.

>>5544997
>Not playing melee
>Not playing unarmed
>Not playing melee unarmed hybrid tribal build in FO2
You've missed one of the most interesting bits of those games, in stupid assumption that nope, close quarters are gonna suck.
They don't. And in FO2 I'd argue unarmed is flat-out broken by level 6. And that's even if you ignore Slayer perk and just use "normal" attacks, rather than retarded perk that makes everything critical. Why even waste perk on such shit, if your crit rate with half-assed unarmed build is going to be somewhere around 60-70% anyway

>>5545727
>not playing throwing with max luck to one shot people with throwing knives

PLEB

>>5545730
I would, if there was enough throwing knives in the game to pull that. Or at least - enough of them from reliable, steady source, rather than random encounters.
The big advantage melee and unarmed have over every other build and weapon is lack of ammo to take care for. That means less shit in your backpack (so more space for loot) and that means zero issues about some rare or outright exotic ammo, which is also likely to be expensive.

>>5545736
that's only true on early game, it gets extremely easy to find them on shops past klamath.

My only issue is how there are so few molotovs, no other throwing weapons for mid-late like the knives. Plasma grenades are so hard to amass.

I remember playing a mod that added molotovs in shops, boomerangs and throwing axes to fix that and it was amazing but the mod was buggy.

>>5545740
if you don't mind inventory editing, you can gather something mid tier expensive and then convert it to whatever thrown you want to make not OP, f12se is the best editor i've found overall
imo its permissible since it's a design oversight. myself i prefer just running melee with grenades as backup for clusters of enemies, you can diablo style abuse with doorways extremely well even without thrown if need be

>>5546137
>Save editing
Unless you are doing so to fix/avoid some bug, you are a fucking loser and should get that repeatively told in your fucking face

>>5521452
I don't, they're inferior both as tactical combat games and as RPGs.

>>5546972
Hmm... them what makes a good game tactical combat and RPG wise then?

>>5547792
>a good game tactical combat
Different anon, but compare FO1 & 2 combat with Jagged Alliance 1 & 2.

>>5547842
i cant stand the grinding in JA2, its solid and way superior when it comes to combat, no doubts.

>>5547859
Like I've said, different anon and you've asked for an example. It's not perfect, but it's an example. The original anon was probably just being edgy contrarian.
I could even argue that Tactics, or Baby's First Tactical Combat RPG, is leagues ahead of both FO1 & 2, despite still being more or less the same

>>5546539
you're an angry little guy who cares too much what people do in their single player games

>>5521452
I like Fallout 1 because of the winde range of character builds it supports. You can be diplomatic, stealthy, a big minigunner, a sniper, a tinkerer, a gunslinger, a mouth breathing retard, a hilarious bad luck charm or a junkie, and the main quests can all be completed with any gimmick build you can imagine. Well, as long as you can avoid being hit with an armor-ignoring critical hit. But that's what savescumming is for.
Fallout 2 is almost as good but the way its main quests are structured makes many builds unusable. It is completely impossible to finish the game with a spray and pray big guns fast shot character because there is no weapon that can damage the enclave marines. You need the ability to aim at the eyes and automatic weapons do not have that feature. I guess you could try with the Bozar, but if you've decided to play without guides you will never find it. I still haven't. There doesn't seem to be any information within the game itself that would lead you into its trail.

>>5545725
Thank you anon, at least one person here understood what I was talking about.

>>5545736
That's actually an unintended thing too - the fallout bible says the Power Fist was supposed to use ammo, but for whatever reason the engine couldn't do it

>>5548114
The Power Fist does require ammo.

>>5548440
and the best part is I think you cannot critically miss and lose your ammo with the power fist

>>5547859
FO combat is better though

>>5548092
>I guess you could try with the Bozar, but if you've decided to play without guides you will never find it. I still haven't.

There are 4 places to get it, two of which anybody can get, one of which is guaranteed. I found it in the guaranteed location. I never used it though.

>>5548092
>Fallout 2 is almost as good but the way its main quests are structured makes many builds unusable. It is completely impossible to finish the game with a spray and pray big guns fast shot character because there is no weapon that can damage the enclave marines.
This is bullshit.
Not only do you have great weapon progression in Big Guns in comparison to FO1 (you get intrermediate weapons like the Light Support Weapon), you also get the Vindicator Minigun as your late-game alternative to Bozar.
There's a documented Ironman (no deaths) LP of this game where a guy manages to storm the Enclave with a Flamer / Rocket Launcher combo, too, so no reason to think bullet-based solutions wouldn't work considering how 90% of the playerbase think Flamer is a shit weapon and that LP also had the Killap Restoration Patch ammo nerf for that particular weapon.
If you max out Bonus Ranged Damage, the perk applies to every single bullet you fire from your weapon*, causing anything with a solid burst to turn enemies into mincemeat. You can also deliver armor bypassing crits from burst.
Well-built Fast Shotters have no issue with Fallout 2 whatsoever.

*Living Anatomy does not work that way, it's a flat +5 bonus at the end of the damage calculation.

>>5548635
If you have a pick pocket character and check everyone, youll find it easy. Otherwise without spoilers, theres one near to Arroyo, a lot of people forget a place early on and it goes unfound for many

>>5548669
thats the one im talking about

>>5548668
Also, I can't stress just how much better Fallout 2 weapon progression is in comparison to FO1, and how many playstyles are opened or simply more enjoyable:
>Fallout 1 has a whopping amount of 3 Big Guns with the ammo being way more scarce
>Fallout 1 has no special Unarmed fighting styles for reaching milestones in Unarmed, so you're stuck with crappy knuckles that get outshined by guns until you finally get Power Fist and that's that (pumping Strength also is completely not worth it, and a ST 2 vs ST 10 brawler will have very comparable results)
>Fallout 1's melee weapon progression goes something like Knife -> Combat Knife -> nothing for a long time -> Cattle Prod/Super Sledge
>Fallout 1's endgame Small Guns are somewhat limited and ultimately inferior to Energy Weapons (though your typical sniper build will still do well with them) whereas Fallout 2 gives them a few more options at all stages of the game, including the ultimate Gauss Rifle

Fallout 2 has way more diversity in terms of builds. The only real issue is that ultimately all builds want the same stats maxed out because every build in the game enjoys PE, IN, AG and LK due to perk requirements, convenience and other issues, while hardly anyone really benefits from high ST or CH. And EN is kinda weird because on one hand in Fallout it's not HP damage that kills you but those bullshit instant crits (so a lot of people just dump it and find the resolve by never ever getting hit through turn-based system and high AP abuse), but on the other it's one of the few attributes that virtually can't be raised by drugs.

And then, aside from that, pretty much anyone can be an everyman diplosniper fighter/mage/thief because there's only a few non-combat skills worth investing into that cap out early, and Speech's relationship with Charisma is almost non-existent.

But aside from that, yeah, there's at least a few builds you can try, and 2 expands the choice quite a bit.

>>5548680
It's easy. Just need an electronic lockpick and start sesrching the early areas of the game.

>>5548668
>take bonus explosive damage
>get rocket launcher
>groups of 5-6 supermutants turn into chunky salsa in mariposa, they leave rockets in their gin piles for you to shoot the next group with.

Pottery.

>>5548715
never said anything about it being hard

>>5548728
Well if you haven't found it, it cant be that easy.

>>5548908
im not him, retard, obviously
how would I know where any of them were if I've never found any?

>>5547987
Not him, but what's the point, really? The game is flat-out not designed to accomodate for Thrown-based gameplay and that's it. Editing saves to allow it doesn't change that, hell, it even makes it more blatantly clear how underdeveloped entire concept is.

>>5548114
>Unarmed
>Using Power Fist
You want to know how I know you never played FO2 with actual Unarmed character?

>>5548968
the point of editing saves is to make it accomodating. you don't even gain in "currency" the way i described. if someone wants to play throwing only, why do you care how they achieve a decent method of it?
there are many oversights in fallout 2, are we supposed to ignore them because they are in the game? wtf is your reply based on, bootlicking bad game designers?

>>5548972
>Unarmed
>Using Haymaker, the best "normal" punch
>1-3 + 7, Critical Chance +15%, 3 AP
>Power Fist
>12-24 damage, divides enemy Damage Threshold by 5, 3 AP
>Mega Power Fist
>20-40 damage, same stats overall
I'll be very interested to read how do you know that.

>>5548993
he's a complete retard, I just finished 2 with unarmed and upgraded fist was OP as fuck

>>5548993
>>5549026
>Blows someone's brain out with or without PF in reliable fashion
>Dude, you totally need that shit! For lulz and shiet!

>>5549081
No one said you "totally need that shit", it's just that Power Fist mathematically does more consistent damage and the only thing Haymaker has over it is Crit Chance, which is still reasonably high when aiming for the eyes and becomes utterly irrelevant when you get the Slayer perk.

So yeah, you went out of your way to communicate to others that someone using Power Fist must never have actually played Unarmed even though nothing suggests this is the case. Best part is, you responded in this fashion to someone merely saying Power Fist doesn't take any ammo, which wasn't a recommendation or condemnation of the playstyle.

What is your point?

>>5549026
Piercing kick to eyes
>+50 to critical chance
>get 10 lk, get better and more criticals twice.

People just die 10% of the time now, even if you do no damage

>>5549115
Aimed Piercing Kick costs 9 AP (you get it at level 15, so there's absolutely no reason not to take Bonus HtH Attacks at this point if you're choosing to go melee). Spending 9 AP on a chance to instakill one person seems inefficient.
More Criticals twice is redundant because hits to the eyes already increase crit chance by 60%, so combining aimed hits with Piercing Kick wastes 10% crit.

If you insist on More Criticals x2 and LK10 you might as well just Haymaker people to the eyes (4 AP, 3 with Bonus HtH Attacks) for a very respectable 60+10+10+15 = 95% crit rate.

>>5521452
I haven't even played the latter Fallout games. I like 1 and 2 mainly because of the atmosphere, design and story.

>>5549104
Bozar does the best damage in the game, period.
It also requires you to lug around enough ammo to feed it, and said ammo tends to be pretty heavy (just like the weapon itself). Which in the end means Gauss rifle, despite dealing less damage and being single-target weapon (instead of gibbing an entire mob), deals better damage. And if cost-efficiency is what you are after, then Pancorn is even better in this regard (burst, yo!).
So my point is "Just looking on raw damage is bullshit way of doing things, when there are slightly weaker, but still comparable options that are much more cost-and-weight efficient". Power Fist requires ammo. Just fists don't. And you get them from the start of the game.

>>5549438
>Bozar does the best damage in the game, period.
Debatable due to burst perks favoring weapons with the highest amount of bullets in a volley.
>And if cost-efficiency is what you are after, then Pancorn is even better in this regard (burst, yo!).
A Pancor burst is only 5 shells, and any self-respecting burst build wants to maximize the BRD perk which applies the effect to every single bullet in a burst. Pancor, like all shotguns, suffers from low range, the magazine size isn't amazing (you still have to reload it every 2 bursts) and the ammo type doesn't give you any great modifiers. How is it cost-efficient?
The best Small Gun going by factors like ammo, burst, weight, AP cost etc. is the H&K P90C as 10mm ammo is ubiquitous, the volley burst is respectable and with 2 H&Ks you can reasonably fire up to 4 bursts of cheap ammo per turn.
Either way, I don't see your point. Big Gun builds generally excel at mowing down entire armies. Gauss is about eliminating 3+ guys per turn without any drugs from a huge distance. Big Guns force you to lug around a lot of ammo, but they clear entire rooms faster. Flamers are the only big gun that doesn't suffer from the "corpses eat bullets" bug that sometimes diminishes the value of burst bullet weapons. All of these weapons fit different situations best, although any reasonable weapon combo can beat the game.
The entire point here is that whoever wrote something to the effect of "no actual Unarmed player would bother with Power Fist" (even though its ammo is common and can be also used for fueling your car in a pinch) doesn't have a real argument other than "you don't need it". You could also technically roleplay a cowboy and beat the game handily with a Magnum revolver.

If I'm Unarmed and I'm storming Navarro or Enclave, I'm packing the Mega Power Fist because after that point I really won't be bothered by the weight of a couple hundred fusion cells and it's objectively the best late game choice.

>>5549524
>You could also technically roleplay a cowboy and beat the game handily with a Magnum revolver.

Not that guy, but I recall doing something roughly like that. I think there a glitch where the speedloader for Magnum not only lowered the reload cost, but also firing cost. So with Fast Shot trait, it was only 2 AP to fire a regular shot.

Not the best way to do damage, but sure was fun as hell to pop 4-5 shots per turn.

>>5524823
Literarly nothing gets censored because in no Slavic country I know does the goberment care about vidiya one bit. Hatred was made in Poland ffs.

>>5550839
I did this as well and killed horrigan in the second round with a critical hit that did 0 damage but 'his spine is now visible from the front killing him instantly '