/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5478782
Anon, have you never figured it out

the majority of games journalists are nintendrones

>>5478782
How was it more important?

>>5478782
It seemed like a big deal at the time, to me. But yes... America in the late 80’s and early 90’s was still Nintendo land. It’s launch wasn’t poured over by journalists like systems are today. There was even the question of weather certain retailers would even carry it at all! Sega Genesis didn’t get credit for a lot of things. Most Nintendo kids (and parents) waited for the Super Nintendo.

>>5478827
I’d say there were way, WAY more games that used multiple scrolling layers than there are “Kart” games or JRPG overworld maps. Which are the only two things Mode7 was ever good for. What else is there? The rare occasion you have a level rotate briefly like in Super GnG? Or crappy overhead view levels you wish you could skip in Contra 3?

>>5478853
Pilotwings was pretty great.

>>5478856
That’s true. It was a lovely game.

>>5478782
>>5478853
Well, Mode 7 -as clunky as limited as it was- provided potential for new types of gameplay. Have BG layers ever be used for something that's not mostly eyecandy-related? (actually asking, I'm curious)

>>5478782
Gaming "journalism" is fucking worthless, in every decade

>>5478782
Woah there hold your horses dude, I'm not sure what your saying is possible.

>>5478894
Bingo. Monkey Island 2 even joked in the box that the included “lite-mode” was made exclusively for game journalists.

>>5478782
Those scrolling pieces in Sonic or Thunder Force are quite impressive. More than Mode 7 IMO. How many layers are actually used to make Sonic 2 look like it has 5-6 layers?

>>5478867
>have graphics never been for visual appeal?
what are you even asking lol

Critics are nothing but paid shills m8

>>5478867
This. Essentially - who cares? What does it do for the game? What is the point in not just having plane and plane b together? It's not like the SNES can't get that output. Once you can do transparency like the SNES that's the important thing. Whatever the advantage a little CPU time or extra possibilities is compared to a completely new type of game.

>>5478867
This. Essentially - who cares? What does it do for the game? What is the point in not just having plane a and plane b together? It's not like the SNES can't get that output. Once you can do transparency like the SNES that's the important thing. Whatever the advantage a little CPU time or extra possibilities is compared to a completely new type of game.

>>5479146
>Whatever the advantage a little CPU time
I'm not even going to address the "little", but are you fucking retarded?

>>5479154
I deleted that post shortly after posting it due to possible inaccuracies. The main point is that mode 7 opens up completely new types of games and that is why people talked about it a lot.

>>5479170
Having a strong CPU also does, because it allows you to sidestep the issue by bruteforcing affine transform and polygonal/raycasted games in general.

>>5479054
I don’t know. I bet M2 does.

>>5478782
Hmm... well this is really a question of the tg16 vs the genesis. Yeah the tg16 dropped the ball by having only one tile layer. So I guess you can give Sega credit for beating the tg16 in terms of tile layers. But beating the tg16 in terms of tile layers is not a big deal in the overall scheme of things.

>>5479054
Just two, it's called line scrolling. Sonic 3 even attempts 3D texture mapping by using a pretty complex iteration of line scrolling.

>>5479189
I really dislike how the word M2 is basically thrown around for anything Sega related now.

>>5479203
Sonic 3 also used DMA to swap out graphics to fake the illusion of more background layers. It was a miracle that they got it looking as good as it did on the Genesis.

>>5479203
>>5479221
You see this is the kind of creative shit that makes the 4th generation so damn interesting and well-done. It's like the A-Team of vidya development.

>>5479106
As >>5479170 mentions as well, Parallax background layers and Mode 7 are being compared in this thread as equivalent innovations, with an argument being made towards the former having a wider use than the latter and having been snubbed by reviewers and journalists back in the day. I was pointing out that Mode 7, on top of the "visual pizzazz" level that parallax also explored, also made possible new types of gameplay in a hardware generation that otherwise was still 99% based on simple scrolling around tile maps

So I asked about examples of gameplay gimmicks that were made possible with the implementation of differentially scrolling background layers, as the possibility of a discussion about the two technologies that goes beyond a shallow cosmetic level might actually be possible

>>5478782
https://youtu.be/FPiXLEbt3u8?t=1153

>>5478782
Because the NES could do that as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltuRuGM271Q

>>5479323
>>5479327
>actually thinking hardware background layers are the same thing as line scrolls

We should ban nintendo games and nintendies here.

>>5479330
>contrarian

>>5479334
see>>5479332
get out nintentoddler

>>5479334
line scrolls =/= background layers, completely separate thing

>>5479341
>>5479345
>seething segalone

>>5479363
nintendo games are for manchildren and trannies.
Nintendo ruined gaming.
Now back to /v/.

>>5478856
Came here to post that game

Also there was that crazy hockey game that "looked" 3D.

>>5479368
>Segalopecic

>>5479387
>nintendildo

>>5478867
Yes, there were all kinds of tricks with background layers.

genesis>snes
Dealt with it nintenkiddies

>>5479391
>Segautist

>>5478782
Because gaming and retro gaming is currently infested with posers from the the opinion piece commies to YouTube know-it-alls(except Game Sack).

They just exaggerate and make up shit constantly, they omit a lot of stuff because they weren't actually there and they don't actually care about understanding the historical context, and until they can't get paid to do it anymore, they'll just keep it up. It's like when politicians tell you what Jesus would do, even though they aren't Christian and haven't read any part of the bible.

<condescension>
>>5478840
Semicolon rather than ellipsis^^
Semicolons are used to join two related clauses. Ellipses are used to indicate omissions. As nothing is being omitted here, an ellipsis is a poor choice. Since two related clauses are being joined, a semicolon would be more appropriate.

80s^^
90s^^
Unless you are talking about an entity called the 80/the 90 and something it owns, an apostrophe is a poor choice here.

Its^^
Unless you meant 'It is launch,' you made another poor choice.

pored^^
Unless the journalists covered the launch in some sort of liquid, you made another poor choice.
whether^^
'Weather' is related to meteorology. Wethers are castrated sheep. Whether you're speaking about the weather, a wether or whether or not to do something, all three words are pronounced the same but each has its own spelling.

FTFY

I also advise you to avoid using the same preposition twice in the same sentence if only for stylistic reasons.

72%, C-
You can do better.
</condescension>

Nintendo never made a good game unlike Sega

>>5479445
You are right, Nintendo has made many good games unlike Sega, who only made 1 good game and that's all.

>>5479449
kiddie games dont count nintendie

>>5479524
Then half of Sega's library do not count either, Segass.

>>5479449
Nintendo is a toy company.
Sega makes art.

>>5479534
>implying fantasy zone, monster boy and ristar are kiddie games

Nintentoddlers BTFO
HOW WILL THEY RECOVER?

>>5479203
What can ya do? In case you’ve been living in a hole, M2 has been responsible for almost everything retro SEGA lately. I wonder what their recent communications with AtGames have been like. What’s the diplomatic way of saying “our customers hate you”?

>>5479558
>>5479568
>Segagony

>>5478782
Doesn't the snes also support different bg and sprite layers?

>>5479921
Yes. And the Atari Lynx and Sega CD also support Mode 7 like effects in hardware.

>>5480553
Nobody used the background scaling on the Sega CD because it was a total hack job to get working.

>>5480563
Sonic CD? Soulstar? Thunderhawk/Thunderstrike?

>>5478867
>graphical masks (jigsaw games, puzzles, partially covered images)
>strategy games with lots of shit going on that don't slow down to a crawl because too many sprites
>text layers without having to black out parts of the other game graphics

Parallax could be done without hardware layers... so it wasn't really a game changer.

>>5480894
>so it wasn't really a game changer
It sort of is. Line scrolling isn't terribly expensive even on single BG hardware (though what you can do it with it is limited) but when the simulated foreground displays complex movement in relation to the background, you have to use animated tiles on a single BG system.

The problem is that animated tiles are a massive drain on system resources so it's hard to do a lot of it and have trillions of other things happening at the same time. Multiple BG hardware can do the same thing for "free".

>>5480894
That's not even remotely the same thing and you know it.

>>5480894
brainlet

>>5478840
The Mega Drive destroyed the Super Nintendo in the States up until Donkey Kong Country(which by that time the next generation started with Playstation and Saturn). Lifetime sales are still in favor of the MD over the SNES in NA.

But the thing is most Nintendo fanboys back then were autistic nerds who still jack off to it to this day while most MD owners were Chads who played Sports Games and moved on to PlayStation and PC.

It wasn't as exciting as the mode 7 and blast processing memes.

>>5481192
>blast processing memes
Friendly reminder that Blast Processing was misunderstood by some faggot marketing guy.
It was actually a really cool technique discovered from some guy who went on to work on Sonic 3D Blast but he couldn't make it reliably work with all Mega Drive models at the time so he kinda gave up on it.
See the video below for more info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvvL6S5Buiw

fuck the snes and fuck nintendo.

>>5479420
Based boomer trying to teach a zoomer. I wonder if the zoomer is grateful or insulted.

>>5480901
>animated tiles are a massive drain on system resources
Sure, but my point is people had seen this effect before. Having multiple hardware layers meant it could be done more effectively but it wasn't a new effect.

>another sega vs nintendo thread
>more australia-kun shitposting
yawn.
I owned both systems. console warriors can keep sucking it.