/vr/ - Retro Games

Definitely not. The analogs are harder to grip than modern controllers. Triggers would have been better than four shoulders.

I wonder if we'll ever see a PS2 Classic, or at least a PS Classic 1.5.

>>5476685
>Triggers would have been better than four shoulders.

wait, the PS1 controller had no triggers? just 4 normal ass shoulder buttons

>>5476679
I agree. I was a total Nintenyearold back during the 64s launch, and I distrusted Sony (for good reason) and ended up loving the N64 controller, AND I ended up loving the PS1 controller years later when I bought the massively underrated PS1 Classic. Those controllers work with many Windows boxes straight away btw.

>>5476685
You don't "grip" the analogs dummy. Just use your thumbs

>>5476679
Meh, I'm not a fan of the d-pad on the thing. I can't remember how many blisters I got from the thing from over-playing some games. Everything else about it I'm fine with.

>>5476679
Agreed. Love the dual shock design. Later controllers improved some stuff, but the template was perfected with the DS1.
I also love the Wii Classic Controller Pro.

>>5476679
It's a really solid engineering marvel compared to PS2 and PS3 controllers. It's just better engineered and not nearly as cheap. This controller was a tank. I just sold my PS1 and more than anything I'm going to miss this controller.
Also
>>5476685
fuck this guy the PS1 analog stick texture is literally perfect.

>>5476720
>This controller was a tank
I still use the first one I ever got with an USB adaptor for my Pi. It looks like shit but works 99% flawlessly

>>5476693
of course it didn't have triggers
>>5476685
>Triggers would have been better than four shoulders.
When the PS1 controller was made, analog controls weren't a thing yet(for consoles), even the N64 analog stick doesn't work like a regular analog.
When the dual analog(and also the dualshock, since regarding it's analog sticks function it's identical to the dual analog) was designed, the analog technology(as it is used in consoles) was new, it's primary goal was to allow more than 8 fixed directions rather than the currently more used concept that amount of tilt = amount of speed(yes, the N64 had that in mind, but again, it wasn't true analog and it's technical design was specifically made for walking speed and nothing else).
Even developers had no idea yet how to use the analog sticks efficiently(in terms of game design), to the point that the concept itself of the right analog to control the camera was considered awful when the first game(alien on ps1) implemented it.
The few games that did used the analog function of the sticks were racing games such as Gran Turismo, but still, considering the controller came before the game, it was the game that adapted to the controller.
What analog sticks have to do with triggers though?
Triggers are analog as well, so how can you possibly think that triggers should have been a thing at controller concept level if the whole concept of analog sticks used analogically and not just for "more than 8 directions" was hard to grasp for both console developers and game developers back then?
It's like saying back in the Roman empire.light bulbs would have been a better idea instead of oil lamps.

Triggers became a thing as a consequence of developers understanding how to use the analog sticks, because the triggers were designed already keeping in mind how to developers would use them, which is something that couldn't possibly come before developers experimented with analog sticks.

>>5476679
DS2 was the peak. Same exterior design, but added/improved sensitivity of the buttons and sticks.
The only thing controllers after the DS2 did better was USB connectivity.

>>5476679
For a system that had everything to proof, I like how solid and sensible the design is. No sharp angles or exaggerated shapes to make it look "iconic" or anything. Everything that's there is there for a reason

I'm curious about the right button layout though; I've read before around /vr/ that some people find the "figure" buttons dumb or difficult to remember, but it's the opposite for me. Even now, I need the tiniest fraction of a second to picture an A/B/X/Y layout in my head, but the PS model comes to me almost instantly. I believe it's because the letter pairings have a pre-existing "order" value attached to them, while the symbols didn't

>>5476731
Way lighter too iirc

>>5476734
I'm the same when it comes to remembering button layout.
I grew up with the NES and SNES, and while for the NES it was easy since it had 2 buttons, with the SNES it was easier for me to remember their color rather than their letters, especially since a lot of games had the buttons labeled both with the letters and the colors either in the game itself or the manual.

Btw, the PS1 symbols for the face buttons were a consequence of it being based on the SNES face buttons(since we all know by now that the PS1 was born out of the failed deal between Nintendo and Sony to make a CD reader for the SNES):
A = 1st button = circle (1 line)
B = 2nd button = X (2 lines)
X = 3rd button = triangle (3 lines)
Y = 4th button = square (4 lines)

>>5476731
This and the GC pad are the absolute peak. I've actually broken a DS3 from a low drop. Fragile damn things. I remember GamePro or somebody doing tests of controllers and both the GC and DS2 survived a standard wash and dry in consumer grade washer/dryer machines. Sony mem cards also survived.

>>5476753
With the GC pad they made a point of avoiding a SNES/PS type button layout for the sake of making something different; the result is simply less versatile than the more traditional option

>>5476762
True, but I've found the layout of the GC controller a great medium for Sega games on Wii. The three-across setup works fantastically for Gen games, but the pad also services NES, SNES, TG, and GBA games. It's a very versatile layout in that regard. I know it wasn't designed that way.

>>5476679
Dual shock has always been shit. We just didn't have any better alternatives. It was shit and awkward to use, and when Microsoft released their controllers with the d-pad and analogue stick switched, it was a fucking revelation.

>>5476770
Seething thumblet

>>5476770
>when Microsoft released their controllers with the d-pad and analogue stick switched, it was a fucking revelation.
I mean it was OK. I don't think it makes that huge a difference though and I think anyone who thinks it does is kinda prissy about their controllers. Like your thumbs reach the sticks and can control games just fine with either setup if you don't have mongoloid hands.
And it's funny that this "revelation" was wrapped up in this dodgeball sized monstrosity of a controller. Apparently even Microsoft weren't happy with it. Story goes they had a list of everything they wanted to incorporate into a controller and handed it out to a manufacturing company, and received this big honking beast as a result.

>>5476786
Did your big toes get reattached as thumbs?

>>5476731
The worst cheap pos ever made. I rarely have to replace another controller, but this and the ds3 controllers i have went through so many, especially the ps2 controller. I think I'm on my 8th one now.

>>5476796
You know that's not normal, right? You make yourself sound like a colossal mong.

>>5476786
That huge logo insert made the controller look so lame and cheap. Also whats wrong with your hands anon

>>5476679
DS1 and DS1 are peak controller design. The dpad in particular is perfect because above the shell all you get are 4 buttons that are almost flush with the shell (I am aware that it is one part under the shell) which gives an unprecedented level of control. The ds1/2 dpad is perfect for tank control survival horror, jrpgs, stealth, platformers, and even third person shooters.

>>5476903
This. The DS1 and 2 perfected the already successful button layout pioneered by SNES controller and are tough sonuvabitches to boot.

>>5476731
>analog face-buttons
>analog rear-buttons instead of triggers
no wonder they changed both for ds3

The Saturn controller is the best ever made.

I don't like the dualshock, never really have. Always felt to me like they weren't made for human hands. This is contrary to some other, more polarizing pads, such as the Duke, in that my opinion changed over time. Rather, dualshock dislike has remained constant. I pretty much only put up with it because it's what's on the PSX.

Pic related is better.

Why Sony chose to mess with it is beyond me.

>>5476679
I hated this dpad it gave me the worst case of thumb ache.
Also the sticks belong above the dpad and buttons, this design is inefficient

>>5476796
>>5476803
Different anon here. I personally did wear down one PS2 controller and had to trash it, but to be fair I did get probably get about 10,000 hours of use over 15 years from it.

>>5477138
Forgot pic duh

>>5477142
>concave
HNNNGG

Yes. Dualshock 1 is unironically the best controller ever made.

>>5477150
I'll drink to this

>>5476679
this is your brain on snoy

>>5476679
No. Non-retro but DS4 improves greatly on that design. Also, Microsoft Xbox (S, 360, one. Sorry duke fans) controllers are superior to almost any other controller.

>>5476903
DS1 D pad hurts my thumbs faster than other D pads on other controllers

>>5476679
I despise that controller. Neither of the analogs is well placed and the Sony dpad sucks ass.

>>5476685
The hinged trigger shoulder buttons people do on controllers these days are dogshit, they just feel fucking indefinite and janky.
If they had an actual break and reset like a real gun's trigger, then they could be cool, but they don't, it's just a shitty way to do a button.

>>5476693
Yes, only normal buttons on the shoulder positions, and it was better.

>>5476702
It's somewhat better on the newer versions, but yeah, the D-Pad was never great on these.

>>5476905
SNES didn't even have the best controller of its generation

>>5476731
Imagine being so much of a soiboi that a controller causes you pain.

>>5476679
In a way, most controllers made since have either been revisions to or minor variations to the original DualShock. It pretty much laid the framework for modern controllers.

>>5477258
I want something shaped like the Sega controller, but with two analogs and four shoulder buttons (yet still six face buttons).

It would cover all my gaming needs.

>>5476796
>>5476803
>>5477141
It's worth noting that there is a massive difference in build quality between Dualshock 2s that were built in Japan or Korea and those that were built in other countries. The former two types were from early in the console's life and a much better than those from the time when Sony shifted PS2 manufacturing to China.

>>5476697
My thumbs always slowly slip off of the analogs on a PS1 controller.

>>5476694
>massively underrated PS1 Classic
If you’re technologically illiterate enough to think that, you shouldn’t post here.

>>5476679
I never particularly cared for the DualShock design, but imo they only got better with each iteration. I still have a DS3 that came with a PS3 Slim back in 09 or 2010, I use it for PS1 games regularly and it just feels much nicer, I used to use a DS2 for the longest time and it just feels cheaper, as other anons noted I went through multiple over the years. The DS1 really feels almost identical to the DS2 to me. Nintendo’s controllers are a bit overrated but in the last decade I’ve come to love the Wii Classic Controller for most retro games.

>>5477105
>they changed both
Wrong. The DS3 still has those. You can even confirm this by using a DS3 with OPS2L. Works perfectly with MGS2/3 and other games that support that.

I have a PS1 dualshock I bought refurbished. Dunno what the guy did, the thing looks perfect from outside, but inside I needed to resolder one of the rumble motors because the wires were too weak, the d-pad doesn't register diagonals easily (so half of the time if I want to jump forward or backwards in street fighter I'm going to have a bad time) and the buttons miss inputs quite a bit. It feels excellent and sturdy, behaves like ass.

>>5477309
oh right, you are correct., they just turned l2r2 into triggers. ds4 got rid of the analog face-buttons.

>ds4 has triggers, analog shoulder-buttons, digital face-buttons and a touchpad
what's is ds5 going to add? i'm sure it's going to be AWESOME.

>>5477245
>it's just a shitty way to do a button.

Because it's not a button, it's an axis.

>>5477323
It's not good at that either.

Is the saturn d-pad that good? I'm not a fan of the dualshock design because of the d-pad having separate parts. After years of using a sixaxis, I went to an xbone gamepad and sure enough, the d-pad is not great, but I'm not getting tired with it. I can beat shit just fine that actually felt hard to do before. It's a little bit less precise (and for some reason I miss one input or two here and there) but the tradeoff is I'm not getting tired after trying tough shit.

Now I'm left wondering if the saturn one's good, since everyone says it is. I only tried two of the genesis controllers when I was a kid.

>>5476768
but the dpad is still tiny and in an awkward place

>>5477291
A hacked PS Classic is great and it's only getting better.

>>5477287
The DS4 sticks have divots on them, so maybe they'd be easier to hold on to?

>>5477351
That's its only saving grace. Non hackable it's a sloppy job that's not even appropriately priced right now.

>>5477429
But it's not non-hackable so

>>5476679
Do you mean the Analog or the Dual Shock controller.

I kinda like the older Analog PS1 controller better than the Dual Shock.

>>5477142
Yea, that one. They're getting pretty rare.

What's the difference between different models of PS1 controllers, aside from basic features (rumble and analogs)? Better build quality? Better silicone pads?

>dont need to force your hands together so you can be in a relaxed position.
>replace buttons with motion controls so less intimidating to boomers .
>mouse like precision.

>>5476679
what kind of magic did this controller have though? i remember having to open a snes controller in order to clean the rubbers that made contact with the PCB so it wouldnt fail.
it was the only thing that made it better than the snes controller, since snes have the best d-pad.

>>5477485
I actually love the Wiimote and I'm sad Nintendo isn't supporting them anymore. Prior to the Switch's reveal I was hoping to just get another Wii successor with specs on par with the PS4. Wii U Pro Controller + Wiimotes would've been an amazing console.

>>5477291
>Nintenyearold
>PlayStation Classic
How could you not recognize bait when you see it?

>>5476770
>when Microsoft released their controllers with the d-pad and analogue stick switched, it was a fucking revelation.
The Xbox design was consciously modeled after the Dreamcast controller and Saturn 3D pad. That's why it put the analog stick where it did.

>>5477272
Are you me?

>>5477262
>soiboi
Did this /v/ermin respond to the wrong post or what? Either way, back to >>>/v/ with you.

>>5477327
I've never used an OG Sega controller but the best D-pad I've ever used is on a replica of the Genesis controller. It's comfy as fuck and easy to bounce around rapidly without accidentally pushing a diagonal you didn't want. I just wish it had analog sticks so I could use it with more games.

>>5477572
How are the L/R buttons on that?

I used to have this version of GGX on PC that included a gamepad similar to the genesis one, with L/R buttons. They were really awful though. Overall the gamepad was not pleasant to use.

>>5477320
>analog shoulder-buttons

Nope, DS4 has fuck all analog except its triggers.

>>5477320
>>5477594
And by the way the reason for removing the analog functionality of the face buttons and the rest of them was due to input latency.

>>5476685
underage detected

>>5476679
easily yes

>>5477586
They're... passable. They have clicky switches with short travel like the buttons on Switch joycons. Kind of annoying but not a big deal for Genesis emulation.

>>5477596
>input latency
I call bullshit. They cost more to make and nobody was developing games that used them.

>>5477327
Yes, it's really incredible. Hard to go back to a PlayStation controller after using the Saturn.

>>5477485
I use one of these + a mouse for my FPS needs.

>>5476753
>Sony mem cards also survived.
I had a sony memory card go through the wash, and it did not survive.

>>5477272

>>5477731
Is this Retro-Bit? Did they show this at GDC?

>>5477429
its good calm down

>>5477731
Hmm

>>5476679
Switch Pro controller > anything else

>>5477731
Can... can I click the analogs?

The playstation controller is too small for a fully grown caucasian man. It also feels very cheap.

>>5477979
I don't mind the size, also the DS4 is larger.

>>5477718
The previously recorded guys tried to pitch that idea and got ignored.

>>5477731
That looks too close to perfect to be real.

>>5478193
Jack and Rich? I didn't really keep up much with their vidya stuff (and I took a lot of it with a grain of salt). When did they do that?

Anyway, I've used it for a bunch of years now, and it feels very good for FPS.
The analog stick is actually pretty good, and I like light weight and the shape of the thing, along with the comfort of wireless (with a very good battery life on a single AA), but the D-Pad is legit the fucking worst I've ever used in my life, and I wish the thing had a couple of more face buttons.

I wish the idea was more popular so that there were some actual competitors in the field. As it is, I think the only product of this kind on the market is the Splitfish, which is kind of just ok, I'm a stronger advocate of the idea than I am of this particular product (which isn't to say I don't think it's worth buying).

Anyone who doesn't think the DS4 improved on the PS controller in every regard has child-like hands or is blinded by nostalgia.

And honestly the Xbone pad is the best design for 3D games in general, but especially shooters.

We're at peak ergonomics and functionality right now.

I prefer gamecube/classic controller, but the dualshock was revolutionary

>>5476803
At one point I had like 7 PS2 controllers, all sitting in a box in my closet untouched for years, and when I tested them like only 2 of them were usable. Dualshock 2s are objectively more cheap than the original Dualshock. Just open both up and take a look for yourself. The differences are obvious.

>>5478289
I don't like the mushy hinged shoulder buttons, and I don't like that the left analog and dpad are in the wrong places.

But yes, modern gamepads are actually pretty good, and for games that let you configure them, control schemes can be pretty good.

>>5477142
Ohhh, there were PS1 controllers with concave analogs?
>>5477731
These should have come out by now, did they?
Anyone knows how good they are?

>>5478389
They were called the PS1 Dual Analog. Pretty much exactly what it sounds like, two analog sticks, no rumble. Personally I don't like them very much. The sticks are nice but the longer handles that more closely resemble the original PS1 controllers than the Dualshocks never felt comfortable to me.

>>5477731
Show me the shoulder buttons.

>>5478394
>Pretty much exactly what it sounds like, two analog sticks, no rumble.
The Japanese versions did have rumble.

>>5478425
I did not know this, thanks for the new info anon

>>5476685
Triggers are and will aways be shit. 4 buttons mater race

>>5478425
>>5478440
You can solder up a motor into the western ones too as they have the points on the pcb.

Only one motor though and some games won't work with it.

Wired or wireless?

>>5476786
Overall the Xbox One controller is the best first party controller Microsoft has made they just kept improving them. The original Xbox controller is so fucking weird

>>5476786
Why are your thumbs so short?

>>5476679
Add a paddle or trigger on the back, and I would agree.

>>5481469
Wireless.

>>5476793

>>5476679
This was one of my favorite 3p controllers.

>>5482857
What am I fucking looking at, why are there bubble levels on the controller, why does it look like it was made by the Goa'uld

Anyone know how to tighten a Playstation d-pad so that for example pushing up on the right piece causes a diagonal to be input instead of right?

>>5477142
Was this rare or something? I have literally never seen nor have I ever heard anyone talk about this thing until this very thread. Why wasn't this the standard back then? At least Sony finally embraced concave superiority when they designed the PS4 controller, even if it took them a couple of generations to come to their senses. I only hope the PS5 controller keeps this design for its own analog sticks.

>>5484983
>Why wasn't this the standard back then?
Because they improved the ergonomics with the Dualshock. The concave triggers on the Dual Analog are great but everything else is just kind of worse, like how an original Playstation controller without sticks compares to a Dualshock. I think the Dual Analog is a serviceable controller, but an overrated one fetching too high a price these days. They're fairly uncommon but not really rare.

>>5485060
>triggers
fml I meant sticks, obviously

>>5477565
>The Xbox design was consciously modeled after the Dreamcast controller and Saturn 3D pad
I'm always amazed by how people on this board don't realize this. They even kept the same button layout of ABXY only to change their colors. It makes me sad Microsoft denied the request to make the Xbox backwards compatible with the Dreamcast. I'm sure they would have a much larger Japanese market share today if they did.

>>5476786
What the fuck is wrong with your hands?

>>5484983
>Was this rare or something?
it was launched just 6 months before the dualshock-launch, and discontinued just a few months after that.

>>5485081
>Microsoft denied the request to make the Xbox backwards compatible with the Dreamcast
Wasn't it the Sega side where talks broke down?

>>5476679
ps controllers are trash made for tiny asian women hands.

This was just released.

Anyone know if it's any good?

>>5487202
Did the saturn ones with joysticks get delayed?

>>5487206
yes

>>5487202
I got the Genesis retro bit 6 button pad official license by SEGA, can confirm it feels just like the originals. Buttons and d pad are great.

>>5487206
How many shoulder buttons?