/vr/ - Retro Games

As much as I want to like this game, all it is is grinding.

Beat IX earlier this year and V yesterday. I need a long break before the 3DS remake of VII comes out.

Boo hoo.

It's the first JRPG. Of course it's going to be a grindfest. The grinding literally IS the game.

You're told in the beginning "Alright, Hero, kill the Dragonlord and save the land..oh, and if you could save the Princess that would be nice too." and that's it. You grind and grind and grind until you can finally face the Dragonlord. And you know what? It's immensely satisfying.

>>543564
No, I get that.

I just find it curious why I can't drop it when the story is so dry and hackneyed - which is completed through hours of grinding.

Dragon Warrior III is pretty fun though

>>543598
Maybe you enjoy the grind.

The gameboy color version is much less grindy :).

>>543491
The dragon on the box art always disturbed me as a child. It disturbs me even now. It really creeps me out.

>>543598
Even though the stories to Dragon Quest games are usually pretty cliche, I love the way they're presented to the player.

>>543656
>I love the way they're presented to the player.

This so much. Dragon Quest actually feels like you are on an adventure. I rarely have that feeling when playing RPGs.

>>543660
It's the eyes.

I used to play a game with myself. Travel to each town and see how long my basic heal spell can last me.

Fun fact: You don't ever have to use an inn but maybe twice in the whole game. As soon you get your heal spell you are set for life as a guy in the castle recover your magic just by talking to him.

>>543660
Really? I always saw it kinda as goofy looking. Also is it even a dragon? Looking at it now it look more like a wyvern. Never really sat there and look at it before. It just a neck with wings to me.

>>543660
The eyes and the mouth are probably what did the job.

>>543598

Because you enjoy being able to travel to that new land and get that new item after all that time.

>>543687
Most JRPGs are held together with cutscenes, dialogue, and event flags. You don't play them, they play themselves.

Dragon Quest let you roam around and solve things on your own. You weren't an errand boy and you didn't get caught up in teenage melodrama. You were a hero, dammit.

I usually dislike grinding, but I just love the DQ games so much

Even though I've only played 1,2,3,part of 7 and a few of the Monsters games

>no rediculous back story
>no negro with a gun for an arm

>grind and grind.

My kind of RPG

>>543915
>Dragon Quest let you roam around and solve things on your own.

Ha, try applying this to DQ7. Being an errand boy bossed around by teenagers (granted they were friends) was basically the first hour of the game.

Still is my favorite DQ, but goddamn, they sure were tricky with some scenarios. Many of the stories in the towns were pretty straight-forward, but then the game would take the training wheels off and have you go searching every nook and cranny for tablet shards.

This game was terrible even when I was a dumb little elementary school shit back in the 90s who played anything.

>>543491

>2013
>not posting the real box art

Dragon Warrior 1
Things i like

>Non linear, with the exception of getting the rainbow drop you can go to the Dragon Lord as soon as you are strong enough to do so.

>Can die on the world map, getting from town to town is challenging at lower levels.

>Simply HAVING a world map, unlike newer RPGs.

>Search option in menu, used to find several important things that are invisible on the map

>>543618
SNES translation, schwing!

>>543963

You should play 8. Pure fucking joy.

>>543623
I do.

>>543973
I was talking about the first Dragon Quest, though I could say the same about 2 and 3. 4 and up don't seem to have any of that.

>>544074
Bingo! Didn't like how they changed names of spells n shit tho.

>>543973
My favorite game, period.

>>544101

Never been a fan of that. Hoimi is more interesting that Heal. Plus it's a legit Japanese word now.

>>544131
What, I meant Sizzle and Frizzle and shit.

>>543708
>
Fun fact: You don't ever have to use an inn but maybe twice in the whole game. As soon you get your heal spell you are set for life as a guy in the castle recover your magic just by talking to him.

Isn't that basically the same as using an Inn?

>>544216
You pay for inns. This guy was completely free and found in the first town.

It not an oversight or an Easter egg. If anything I guess you would call it a secret but with the screen flashes you really got to wonder about it. That how I found it out as a kid. The old man gotta be the best NPC in the game beside the king himself and yet you can easily miss him if you didn't pay attention.

>>543491
i just barely beat that game today. sure it was a little grindy, but it was pretty fun. only took about 4-5 hours for me. beat the final boss at level 20.

>>543491
>Dragon Warrior
I got mine free, with a subscription to Nintendo Power.

>>543491
>Adventuring, adventuring, adventuring, grind, boss! Adventuring adventuring, adventuring, grind, grind, grind, boss, SEX WITH THE PRINCESS, carry her home in your arms, adventuring, adventuring, adventuring, adventuring, grind, boss. SEX WITH THE PRINCESS SEX WITH THE PRINCESS SEX WITH THE PRINCESS
Fixed.

And that's why even the first DQ is so great.

As a kid, I got this for five bucks from a friend who couldn't figure out the stairs and thus couldn't escape the throne room. I had a lot of adventures out of that five bucks.

I like grinding, but honestly this game took it a little too far. I feel they should have made some monsters more suitable for the level ranges.

Its difficult to grind against tiny 2 exp monsters and impossible to grind against monsters that give lots of exp because they do shit tons of damage to you.


also fuck Poison.

>>546059

>5-hour RPG

jesus christ even the first FF had more gameplay than that

>>546886
He's wrong. Or used a guide. The first DQ is about 10-12 hours long on your first playthrough.

>>546891

>10-12 hours

see now i'm interested

>>546885
>I like grinding, but honestly this game took it a little too far. I feel they should have made some monsters more suitable for the level ranges.
But grinding was never a problem in DQI. Wandering aimlessly and trying to find where to go could get tedious, dungeons were tedious, but the battles were rarely hard. Even grinding for the dragon and the final boss took, maybe, like, 15 minutes top.

The only way one could end up needing to grind a lot if they know beforehand where to go, and rush. Were you using a walkthrough?

>>546891
it probably took me a bit longer than that, but i don't think more than six. but yes, i did refer to the wiki for help on more than one occasion, which certainly cut the time down.

so how's the second one? just more of the same? should i play it before i play the third?

>>546891
This.

I started playing just recently and I know I've invested at least 5 hours of just grinding and exploring and trying not to die.

>>546901
>but yes, i did refer to the wiki for help on more than one occasion
What's the fucking point of playing an adventure game with a solution? Fuck. Refusing to play it is one thing, playing, but not playing at the same time is another. Were you playing to see the ending or something? You understand that battles are not the focus of gameplay, right?

>>546891
oh, and he's still right about FF though, that game was quite a bit longer. again, even with using the wiki for help, it took me about 16 hours my first play through.

>>546898
No, I went in playing blindly.

I never really looked much into DQ, but I've always heard good things about it so I wanted to try it.

I was caught off guard by how difficult it was compared to some other RPGs.

I'm at level 16 now and I'm not having trouble with anything anymore really, but it was still a little harsh getting there.

I agree with you that it is a little tedious, but I enjoy exploring a lot.

>>546901
>so how's the second one? just more of the same? should i play it before i play the third?
You're playing with a wiki. You should quit the series and read the DQ manga.

I fucking love grinding

>>546915
Dragon Quest is not a grindy series. Only FFVII fans think it is. In reality, they're some of the least grindy JRPGs, even the early ones.

If FF1 was too much grinding for me, will I be able to stomach DQ?

I did actually beat FF1 though btw, so it wasn't so much that I couldn't take it

>>546910
>>546914
knew i'd get shit for doing that, but i still thought this was /vr/. you guys should lighten up.

when i use a wiki to help me play a game, it is for information on bosses/enemies, items that don't have any description, and general stuff like that. i do the exploring myself, don't use dungeon maps, and try to do as much as i can without assistance. calm down, guys.

>>546921
it's a little grindy, but not as bad as people tend to think when they hear the word grind.

>>546926
Don't feel bad, I looked up what the items did as well.

>>546921
I've never played FF7 and I thought DQ was grindy.

>>546935
i don't feel bad in the slightest. one should play games the way they want to, regardless of other's thoughts on the matter.

that being said, i definitely agree with >>546910
on his point about adventure games, which is why no matter how much help i look up on a game, i still make sure to do as much as possible by myself, and any time i get truly stuck and find out the answer i close the guide or whatever right after that and continue on my own.

i'm also playing FFIX using the wiki to help out, and i've put over 50 hours into the thing and i just started disk 4.

>>546926
Precisely because this is /vr/, people on here enjoy actually playing games, not breezing through them.

Dragon Quest is about adventure, explorationa nd story-based puzzles. Battles are jsut a funky minigame that plays itself for the most part. Throwing the only stuff that really matters aside is stupid.

"Lighten up"? I've played the games and enjoyed the adventure. Your'e ruining it for yourself, not me.

>>546923
DQ aren't very grindy. But don't start with DQI, for god's sake, it's amazing when your'e a series fan, but it's probably the worst in the series. Start with 3 or 5. 3 for open world, 5 for story.

>>546926
>i use a wiki to help me play a game, it is for information on bosses/enemies, items that don't have any description, and general stuff like that
I.e. making the adventure pointless. Cool.

>>546941
You had to grind in FFIX? Why? What happened?

>>546939
i enjoyed the adventure quite a lot. that's my point, i did the adventuring, the wiki was akin to me being on the adventure with a small field survival guide, not a big ass walkthrough/cheatsheet.
>>546943
whatever you say.

>>546926

don't worry anon, not all of us are judging you

I just want you to love Dragon Quest as much as I do, and if you want to get into the series using a wiki, go for it!

To the rest of you: Stop being so asspained

>>546926
I can understand this. The only thing that kept me from completing DW1 during my childhood was finding the Erdrick Shield. It doesn't exist.

Don't bite someone head off because they didn't know something and want to learn.

If you cheated to learn how to get the magic keys or the flute then you deserve what you are getting though. They gave enough hints for that. The armor is debatable because I recall the item to find it was fucking useless. I search the whole overworld map one tile at a time.

>>546952
Yes, we should be very laid-back here. We all love our retro video games. Wiki adventure games? Play with scanlines pretending it's crt? Like SotN more than any other Castlevania? Cool. We're very understanding here. Even if we disagree with objectively stupid, we must be polite and understanding about it here on Neogaf.

...oh WAAAAAAAAAAIT

>>546948
you're assuming i *had* to, which is probably the only explanation for me taking that long, which is correct, the grinding did add a lot of time, but i didn't have to by any means. as soon as i got the ship in disk three i went to an island and grinded on grand dragons for the fun of it. the rest of the time spent past what one might think one should take on that game was simply me exploring the shit out of the world, which i absolutely love in this game.
>>546952
i do love the series. the only one i've played through completely was IV, and i adored the story and adventure. i also didn't use any form of help on that one, because i didn't feel i needed it at all.
i'm playing through the FF games i haven't played, and also getting into the dragon quest series. this is why i love this board, it's rekindled my love for older games.
>>546954
>If you cheated to learn how to get the magic keys or the flute then you deserve what you are getting though

i totally agree. i was very pleased to find that in this game they gave you everything you needed to find all the items and stuff on your own, it was very well done. cryptic to a certain degree, but not anywhere near impossibly so. i found all the items without help.

>>546960
people like you are whats wrong with the world.

>>546960

So you still haven't grown out of the prepubescent stage where you think being an asshole ignorant of subjectivity makes you look cool?

Some people like SotN the most. Get the fuck over it already.

>>546960

>>>/v/

>>546976
>an asshole ignorant of subjectivity
It's a bit more complicated.

See, you do indeed "grow out of subjectivity" when yous top being 17. But what 19 year olds like you don't understand is that it also is only a phase.

>>546987

>See, you do indeed "grow out of subjectivity"

So you stop having opinions? Are you fucking high?

/v/ pls go

stop shitting up our board

>>546998
I see. I'll actually explain.

First, you have baseless opinions. Ages 13-17, normally.

Then you learn that you were wrong. You may end up believing that everyone everywhere is wrong and everyhting is a mater opinion. Ages 18-23, normally.

Then you may end up having enough experience about things, including your hobbies, to know what is actually good and what isn't. Case in point: playing adventure games with a Wiki is a waste of personal time, period.

>>547018
>Case in point: playing adventure games with a Wiki is a waste of personal time, period.

which is a complete and total opinion. who are you to determine what is a waste of one's time, unless the one happens to be you?
you aren't the one who gets to decide such things.

>>547018

>Playing adventure games with a wiki is a waste of personal time
>The anon had fun doing so
>Still a waste of time because I deem it so

You're an arrogant retard. Shut up and go back to /v/. You belong there.

>>547018

>Subjectivity doesn't exist, or rather, its just a phase!
>I now present my OPINION about something!!!

confirmed for troll. fuck off

i think one of the main reasons this entire discussion was brought about was because one anon said this game takes a minimum of 10 hours to complete without a guide. again, when i use the wiki, the help i obtain from it is minimal in actually cutting down the game time. i looked it up, and apparently both gold and exp awards were increased in the gbc version of the game, which is the one i was playing, which may help to explain why i beat it in six hours.

>>547018
Ag, so you're a 16 year old who read a wiki

>>547028
>>The anon had fun doing so
You seem to be under the impression that I claim that guy didn't have fun with DQI. That is incorrect.

He just botched his experience. He had fun with what was left - a husk of a game, only 1/3 of it's natural length. I.e., his pleasure was what was actually subjective. Him having fucked up the actual experience of playing Dragon Quest for himself is fully objective.

>>547053
it's like you don't know how to read ( >>547038) nothing i looked up in the wiki made the game any shorter. stop being an arrogant douche.

>>547029
>which is a complete and total opinion.
No, it is a fact that undermining the experience diminishes the pleasure from it.

It is also a fact that by using a guide you undermine the experience of playing adventure games.

>>547053

That isn't what you said and you know it. Stop.

>>547051
What? You're not making any sense anymore. What wiki are you even referring to?

Wow, this thread sure got shitty since I last checked it.

>>547061
learn. to. read. >>547058

>>547065
/v/ showed up.

>>547038
The GBC remake takes 10+ hours on your first playthrough.

With a Wiki you can beat any DQ in 1/3 time or faster. The bulk of every game in teh series is learning and figuring out.

The point stills tands, you're still a retard who plays with a wiki and then asks for support.

>>547082
>The GBC remake takes 10+ hours on your first playthrough.

and for me it didn't. stop projecting your anger at the fact i was capable of beating a game faster than you onto me with your baseless accusations. the wiki was used for minor assistance in areas unrelated to any adventuring. i didn't get stuck in the game because it is a small world and talking to the npc's is actually useful in this jrpg.

>>547064
That is exactly what I said. That's what I've been saying repeatedly throughout the thread.

>>547070
Cool. See >>547082 . He's wrong. GBC takes 1-2 hours less to finish. Walkthroughs, on the other hand, do indeed reduce the game to half it's length for obvious reasons.

>>547095
>and for me it didn't.
Yes, because you were using a fucking walkthrough.

Are you really that stupid? I truly hope that you've written one of the "back to /v/" psots itt, so that when the mods arrive, you'd get banned.

>>547097
well, for all i know it *did* take me 8 hours to beat. i started it yesterday morning and played until i got sleepy, fell asleep for some unknown length of time, then picked the game back up and played until i beat it. i can't believe this entire discussion stemmed from me estimating the time it took me to beat this game wrong.
>>547105
i'm afraid i did not. also, you keep using words like walkthrough and guide, when you clearly have no idea what they mean. please refrain from doing so in the future.

>>547113
You're not him, cool. You didn't use a walkthrough, and the GBC remake took you about 8-9 hours or so. That's adequate. The Famicom version lasts for 10-12 hours.

That asswipe finished it in 6, because he was using a goddamn wiki.

>>547124
dude, i'm the same anon as up here >>546059
and as i mentioned >>547113
i think i just made an inaccurate estimate to how long the game took.

>>547132
>i think i just made an inaccurate estimate to how long the game took.
Ok, and?

>>547151
and that is why dumdums like yourself keep assuming i used a full blown guide instead of reading what i've said.

>>547156
No, I keep assuming that you used a guide, because you said so.

If you didn't, ok. Even if you did, ok. The people over there are arguing that using guides does not diminish in the slightest the experience of playing a game - based on the argument that everyone here on the Gamespot forums are unique snowflakes and have our own opinions and should learn the concept of subjectivity.

>>547171
>No, I keep assuming that you used a guide, because you said so.

but i have not said that once. i used a wiki, which has no maps, no guiding, no walkthrough, at least not the stuff i used it for. examples of things i used it for
>how many hit points does this boss have?
>what the hell does "war ring" do? it's description is ???
>what on earth is this weird belt i found?

at no time did i look up where to go or what to actually do.

>>547183
The whole point of fighting a boss in a DQ game is that you ahv eno diea whether you're going to beat it. It's an addictive game of chance. Learning the stats ruins that.

Why do you think the ring's description was "???"? Do you think it was a bug? Did it not cross your mind that mystery was the point? Or that mystery was part of the adventure?

As for what you said:
1. Game took me 5 hours
2. I used a guide
That's it. When clarifications came, the issue was cleared up.

Don't remember which dragon quest it's from but I recall needing a guide to find some guy who was supposed to have escaped jail but instead was hanging around in a tiny dead end corridor through an invisible wall from the side of his cell.

>>547203
> I used a guide

you keep saying that. if you can find a single post where i used those words, i'll apologize, but as that isn't the case, kindly stop saying so. a wiki is not a guide.
>The whole point of fighting a boss in a DQ game is that you ahv eno diea whether you're going to beat it

sure, that's one person's opinion on the matter, but that isn't the point of any game to me. the point of the game is the adventure and the fun of it.
>Why do you think the ring's description was "???"? Do you think it was a bug? Did it not cross your mind that mystery was the point? Or that mystery was part of the adventure?

of course it did. it also crossed my mind that there's very very limited inventory space in the game and i wanted to know if i should keep it with me or toss the damn thing.

stop trying to tell people how they should play things, everyone gets to decide how they want to best enjoy a game. even saying something like "using a guide objectively sullies the experience of the game" is incorrect, because for each person the experience is theirs and theirs alone. you don't get to set the rules for what is fun or exciting or a rich and fulfilling experience for anyone but yourself. you need to grow up.

>>547206
Second. Finding him was fucking glorious.

And you ruined it for yourself by using a fucking goddamn guide. And what for? What's the point? You didn't get to the good stuff, it WAS the good stuff.

But using walkthroughs is nothing new. The fact that people on /vr/ use them - and other people defend their choice - that's what's hilarious.

But I love it. /vr/ is like Neogaf, but the mods are on my side, because you're the ones breaking the rules by telling me to fuck off, while I do indeed provide arguments in support of my claims.

>>547215
>And you ruined it for yourself by using a fucking goddamn guide

you are clearly just trying to troll at this point, no one can be this ignorant or asspained about someone else's choices in how they play a game.

>>547212
>a wiki is not a guide.
But a game wiki IS a guide. It's just wikified. Wiki is a format, guide is the content. A book can be a guide, a wiki can be a guide, a video can be a guide.

What the fuck is wrong with you? Holy crap.

>>546960
You're a bad person and I wouldn't be very sad if I learned you had died in a strange accident.

>>547220
way to once again dodge the entire point of this discussion. we're done here.

>>547225
>You're a bad person
And you're a shitposter.

>>547226
>we're done here.
Yeah, you won. By using a guide.

so, back to my question, if someone could kindly answer. what is dragon quest II like? should i definitely play through it, or should i go on to III, which i'm pretty excited to play as i love job systems.

>>547238
Guy explaining why using guides is bad here.

DQII is a proper full-on DQ game. It's a fixed-party one with three names characters, is about 20 hours long. Puzzles can be a bit arcane occasionally.

DQII isn't bad, but, again, I don't recommend it unless you're already a big series fan. To become one, play either DQIII or DQV.

Best version of II is the GBC remake.
Best version of III is either the GBC remake or the SNES remake, depending on whether you're a graphics whore or like portability.
Best version of DQV is, hands-down, the PS2 remake. The DS remake, unlike the great DQVIDS, is a bit shabby, so I recommend playing either the PS2 full remake, or the SNES original, both of which are equally great and have English fantranslations.

>>547256
many thanks, anon. i really enjoyed dq1, so i guess i'll play II before i play III. i really would like to get a copy of V, and because of your recommendation, i'll probably get the ps2 remake instead of the DS one like i had planned.

>>547265
DQV PS2 is Japanese-only. If you're going to want to play the translated version, you will still ahve to download, patch and burn the DVD, even if you have bought a copy, obviously. And you will ahve to have your PS2 modded for it to run. As you know.

>>547273
well fuuuck.

>>547276
It's perfectly emulatable, though. If you must, you can import the Japanese DQV for PS2, sniff and lick it for a bit, as we all do, then run the downlaoded, patched iso in PCSX2.

>>547285
yeah, guess i'll need to emulate it. isn't ps2 emulation still kinda iffy though?

>>547298
well fuck, this is excellent news. gonna have to get me an emulator. i have a really nice computer, so should be great. thanks again, anon.

>>547295
It's near-perfect.

>>547303
Don't use the home-page builds, they are severely outdate.

Use this or the like:
http://buildbot.orphis.net/pcsx2/

>>547315
Yay.

>>547310
wonderful, downloading now. cheers.

>>543564
> And you know what? It's immensely satisfying.
No it isn't.

>>547324
In Dragon Quest, it is.

I never encountered a single other game that handled grinding right, though.

>>547329
>In Dragon Quest, it is.
No it isn't.

>I never encountered a single other game that handled grinding right, though.
Any other game that isn't DQ.

>>547319
http://www.dqtranslations.com/projects/dq5r
this a good rom of it?

>>547337
Now you're just being difficult.

>Maribel is sort of like an annoying tag-along sister that actually has her moments
>Eventually masters sage class and pirate class and becomes amazing.
>Leaves
>Replaced by incredibly shit character.

>>547352
I dunno, you're the one being argumentative. I'm stating a fact just like you. Are you certain you're not the difficult one. Sure as fuck seems like it from here. Especially with a "you don't agree with me therefore you are difficult" attitude.

>>547235
muh sides

if you don't play through it over 72 hours in one sitting while shooting up heroin you're not maxing your dq1 pleasure, casuals

>>547372
Maribel comes back to the party later according to what I read here on /vr/, but the new girl supposedly builds up to be better before that happens.

I'm playing the game for the first time on my 3DS and didn't expect getting spoiled while browsing this board, should've known better. :(

Last island I did was the one with all the crazy robots, about 25 hours logged into the game. How many do I have left?

>>547256
Can you expand on how the DS version is shabby? I picked it to waifu muh Debora but it would've been nice with fully 3D environments and models. I've gotten far enough to have the kids in my party so probably won't switch to PS2 ver at this point, but I'd appreciate details.

>>547501
>Can you expand on how the DS version is shabby?
I'm certain that the exp/level rate is severely unbalanced. It loses gravity by getting rid of some slight grinding the original required. There, you walk upon a boss, and you don't know whether it'll die or you'll have to walk throught he dungeon again. On the DS, one after another, the bosses just die with no grinding, so, ironically, it becomes a chore.

I think that being afraid of bosses is an important part of DQ. It makes the random battles sensible - you start to actively crave them, because they make charatcers stronge. If you get rid of challenge, please get rid of the fucking battles, too. If you keep one, keep both. DQ is a very fragile formula.

>>543491

Happily we're working
Working working working
Working working working
and then some day we'll die!

Happily we're dying
Dying dying dying
Dying dying dying
And then we'll work some more!

I thought DQII had invisible items required for progressing the game? Are you supposed to scour the entire game searching every square?

Also, anyone else absolutely detest grinding yet enjoy some Dragon Quest games? I haven't played the early games, but the DS remakes of IV and V were decent and VIII was rather enjoyable. Fortunately none of them required grinding.

I never played this game first time round and I want to play it now

which platform is the best?