/vr/ - Retro Games

tried to play this and ended up going back to the SFC version

can't stand the mobile-tier look

How superficial.

This is the mobile port, right? Just play it there instead.

>>5438348
I don't have a smart phone.

>>5437967
So you can't stand a great remaster with new backgrounds that are also accurate to the original, but are plenty fine with the bugfest that is the SNES version?

>>5437978
>Kawazu personally working on these remakes AND the localizations as confirmed on Twitter
>superficial

Get the fuck out of here.

They could have done a little better with this remake -- everyone's complaints about the controls are valid, and it's bizarre the input delay varies from platform to platform. It's the best way to play RomaSaga 2 for sure though.

Really excited for the remake of 3 later this year and Scarlet Grace. Have been playing Re;Universe (the new mobage) while I wait.

>>5438812
The problem with the remaster is that it was obviously made for the Vita in mind, which is why the mobile version has shitty controls and other problems like lag.
Using the mobile version as base to port on Steam was another huge mistake, but luckily they fixed everything in a week or so, and afaik the Switch version also got patched for the input lag problems.

The RS3 remaster development cycle has been longer and they also further delayed it to make it a global platform release, unlike RS2, so I expect it will be a much tighter remaster than the already solid RS2 one, and Kawazu also said they're working hard on the Scarlet Grace localization, all the while handling Re:UniverSe, and who knows what else.
It does help that Re:UniverSe has been a massive hit, so that is probably helping out the team with getting more funds and new staff, fingers crossed we'll get a new mainline with a proper budget or the proper funding for Kawazu to remake Frontier as it should have been.
Though I'm sure this place will always find something to bitch about anyway.

>>5438787
Not that anon, but it's pretty jarring to see high resolution numbers over the top of blocky poorly-filtered sprites. I'd prefer it to all be the same resolution insted of a mishmash of whatever was easiest for the devs at the time.

Never played a RomaSaga game before, but I saw that it has a similar "leveling" system to FF2. Does it end up feeling similarly tedious in the ways you end up improving your stats artificially, or is it handled better this time?

>>5439162
Only character stat that goes up is HP and there are time skips so your party is constantly changing.

Your characters learn new skills in battle and those go into your dojo and you can pass them to the next generation. You also pay to develop magic spells and equipment. That's how your people get stronger, not leveling up.

>>5439182
Oh ok, thanks. Someone in a review mentioned it has the same growth system as FF2 (do stuff to get better at doing it which leads to a whole set of issues). That sounds cool though. How is skill aquisition during battle handled, is there a hidden XP bar for it or is it completely random chance?

>>5439186
>Someone in a review mentioned it has the same growth system as FF2 (do stuff to get better at doing it which leads to a whole set of issues)
Yes, the more you use certain weapon or spell paths the more proficient the characters will be in them, but it is different than in Final Fantasy II. Enemies don't give you a set amount of experience to fill a gauge to level up a skill path, nor will be using a skill give you a certain amount of proficiency points towards that skill. By then the SaGa series gave the player large boons and incentives to tackle harder enemies since they will yield an increase of stat and skill gains after battle along with it being easier to spark (learn) new skills mid battle.

>>5439186
SaGa shares the same design, FF2 was the prototype for the variable stat system used later in most SaGa games, but RS2 created the fixed stat system as opposed to the variable one, where your main stats outside of fuel ones like HP/JP/TP do not grow, you have proficiencies instead for your weapons and magic schools, which again, mean that the more you use certain weapons of magic the better a character gets at using them, though their main stats do not grow.
>How is skill aquisition during battle handled, is there a hidden XP bar for it or is it completely random chance?
Techs (Waza) have a RNG seed for aquisition that is influenced by a lot of factors, but mainly what you're fighting and what you're doing in battle, powerful enemies rig the dice throw for more success chances of learning a new tech, furthermore you can rig the dice even more by using certain techs to learn better ones instead of just doing whatever, some techs can also be learned only by using other ones, then there's other techs that are unique to certain weapons and can only used with those weapons, e.g. Phantom Warrior can only be learned and used with the Amethyst Axe.
All characters also have their own table of what they can and cannot learn, you can infer their tables by looking at their proficiency levels, and their classes also specificy what they're naturally good at, however, there's a couple of characters in each class that are special in the sense that they usually have different tables that allow them to specialize differently from the rest of their class.
Magic is learned by having a mage teach you the spell, the higher your magic proficiency level, the better spells you'll be able to learn through your teachers, furthermore, after you reach certain global levels you'll be able to fuse different spells from non opposing schools into other ones, however, you cannot use two opposing schools on the same characters.

>>5439162
>FF2 had notorious problems everyone is aware of, tell me anon, did Kawazu try to fix any of that in his 12 game follow-up series?

>>5439279
Come on now, don't be rude to a newfriend.
It's not like he's shitposting or anything, though given his attitude towards FF2 I don't know how much he'd enjoy the series since it seems he dislikes the fundamental premise behind the character building.

>>5439301
I enjoy this style of character building usually, but I was unsure if Kawazu's implementation in FF2 directly carried to his later games. I didn't like how you ended up attacking yourself/allies with weak weapons to get stronger, which obviously breaks the immersion this growth system is aiming for. Glad that he ironed it out later on; I'll start to work through the series and see how it goes. I mainly played western PC games in the 90s so I'm less familiar with niche JRPGs of the era (working on changing that).

>>5440210
Don't do it then. Imbecile.

>>5437741
But I like video games and am over 5 years old. Why would I own a Switch?

>>5440237
Here's your (You), with a bonus of +2 EDGE points.

>>5440210
>I didn't like how you ended up attacking yourself/allies with weak weapons to get stronger
Attacking yourself is barely even functional and was a design oversight due to him allowing it to make it so that a team with no access to magic could still deal with Sleep shutting down party members, everyone with deeper mechanical knowledge would just find a bunch of undeads and use those if you wanted to level up your HPs since the growth you'll get out of those is exponentially higher than anything else in the game, it's just a meme that unfortunately didn't die yet, together with a lot of misconceptions about the mechanical designs of FF2.

Even so, no SaGa game allows you to hit your own party members, so rest assured you won't have those problems, when Kawazu finds a problem he irons it out, and so he did with everything wrong with FF2, starting from the very first SaGa.
>I mainly played western PC games in the 90s so I'm less familiar with niche JRPGs of the era (working on changing that).
If you're interested in mechanical design you'll probably like the series for what it does, mostly because it's made by people who are huge mechanic nerds so there's many interesting implementations or redesigns of certain WRPG mechanics, for isntance, Kawazu reportedly said that the entire monster mechanics he designed for the classic trilogy came up with him playing NetHack and being intrigued by the mechanics behind eating, so he took that idea and completely reworked it into something more elaborated, a lot of his games also pay homage to classic D&D in terms of toolkits, spells especially, then there's also layers of his own brand of mechanics that glue everything together.

Contrary to most CRPGs though, Kawazu never indulged into hard sim aspects, like Ultima, so do not expect things like being able to steal forks, go murderhobo or something like that, you won't find that in this series, SaGa deals more with a "practical" type of roleplaying so to speak.

>can't restore LP at inns
>only rare as fuck LP potions
bullshit

>>5438787
>great
>(((remaster)))
fuck off

>>5440470
cope dog
literally ZERO reason not to play the remaster unless you're a nip that hates it

so if i lose a generic recruit in battle entirely, will the next one waiting for me remember the skills/magic the previous recruit learned or do i have to do it all over again?

>>5438835
I'd say I'm surprised Re;Universe is at over 10 million downloads, but the game is surprisingly solid. There are lots of things to do and overall character progression is spread out nicely.

I don't want to talk about it too much since this is /vr/ but I will say the game uses a completely different combat engine from the RS2 remaster, I wouldn't be surprised if it's used in an actual game. Considering the strength of the SaGa Frontier and Romancing SaGa 1 (Minstrel Song variation) characters in R;U, I'm a little hopeful for a new Frontier-like title. There's no real basis for that hope though.

>>5440478
IIRC you have to do it over again. Which isn't a big deal unless the skill isn't in your dojo. Then you have to spark it again and make sure the unit survives until next generation so the move can be taught at will.

>>5440449
Eventually you can buy the potion from a witch. Still a bit of a hassle because it costs all the money you can hold.

Snes translation when.

Okay, I basically finished the tutorial, I think: I'm at the second phase with Emperor Leon's child, after BTFOing one of the 7 heroes that killed Leon and I wonder: do characters have to die to be replaced? Isn't there a way to retire them? Why is that gameplay gimmick bothering me so much?

>>5440540
never

>>5440449
The game is built around refreshing your team, death is literally part of the gameplay.
And this might be a controversial opinion but RS2 has the best LP standard, later game got more and more lenient to the point that LPs don't matter anymore by Frontier, they should at least give you a hard mode where your LPs do not regenerate at inns, Unlimited and MS where the only games where LP actually kind of mattered, and even so, only Unlimited really makes them matter.
On the bright side, Red Slimes very rarely drop LP potions and in the remaster you can sometimes found them in treasure chests in the Maze of Memories, I do not suggest buying off potions off the Witch in south rongit because it's not only clunky but at some point she runs off of items, and you won't be able to make the potion you need for another quest either, so it's almost impossible for this to happen.
>>5440512
>There are lots of things to do and overall character progression is spread out nicely.
Imperial was the same, but after 2 years it became kind of bloated and the meta is all fucked up, I hope Re:U doesn't make the same mistake.
>I wouldn't be surprised if it's used in an actual game
Don't see them doing that really, though I wouldn't mind a proper console crossover game in that vein, with no gacha, the sprite art and choreography especially is fantastic.
>>5440546
>do characters have to die to be replaced?
Yeah, once you recruit somebody it's a "till death do us part" deal.
You'll get used to it eventually, again, death is part of the natural game loop in RS2, it's jarring at first but eventually clicks with you, especially when you get buttfucked by the heroes.
The narrative is also literally that, Leon dies trying to figure out Kujinshi and passes his knowledge to Gerard with Oaive's magic, when you die to something you'll pass your knowledge to the next team and work on hard countering that.

>>5440596
>RS2 has the best LP standard, later game got more and more lenient to the point that LPs don't matter anymore by Frontier, they should at least give you a hard mode where your LPs do not regenerate at inns, Unlimited and MS where the only games where LP actually kind of mattered, and even so, only Unlimited really makes them matter.

I hadn't really thought about this before, but it's true. The one thing I will say is that (IMO) Minstrel Song is difficult enough on its own without a more stringent LP system. I didn't mind the fact you could recover LP in expensive inn rooms, because there were often still plenty of opportunities for your characters to hit 0 LP out in the field.

It also gives you the freedom to choose which inn rooms you stay in, so you can avoid regaining LP completely if that's what you'd prefer.

I'm sure this is all what you were getting at, just wanted to drive further discussion since SaGa threads aren't exactly the most common.

>>5440670
>Minstrel Song is difficult enough on its own without a more stringent LP system.
Yeah, but that kind of difficulty tuning also leads to other problems, like making the game a lot more linear unless you want to grind your brains out due to missing quests thanks to ER.

And even so, LP loss itself isn't as meaningful in the big picture despite having various difficulty spikes or tests of endurance like the Twin Moon Temple, mostly because you'll sooner wipe out altogether if you're fucking things up than incur LP death, unless you have Silver in your party, I guess.
Inn rooms having different functions was a good idea but it's only really relevant in the beginning of the game when you don't have enough liquidity to afford it, or when you don't know where to find easy money, so again, it's not really as relevant as it should be even though it is still better than something like RS3 or Frontier.

Overall, I think only RS2 and Unlimited managed to strike a good balance in making LP an important resource, though I'm speaking as somebody who played all of the games and is fairly experienced, I'm sure newcomers wouldn't say the same and after all, it's also important to not be TOO hard for the sake of giving a challenge to older fans, I'm just a bit disappointed they never thought about making a special difficulty setting for veterans in all these years, and when they did in TLR's case it was fairly disappointing as well and didn't really change much, if anything.
Though on the other hand, I can't say they're unaware of this problem, in fact Scarlet Grace did try something different by making it so that while LP loss is as frequent as RS2, LP depletion leads to a period of cooldown where a character is unavailable instead of permadeath, and said cooldown varies depending on their stats, and it wouldn't have been that bad were it not that they got rid of the gameover on LP depletion for MC, or the fact that battle retries lower an encounter's difficulty.

>>5440894
Also, to make another little example on why MS' LP management is kind of flawed:
Consider how you need LP to flee, first off only the character who initiates escape loses LP and you only lose 3, this measure is so lax that you can steal dinosaur eggs in Ligau by simply alternating which character starts the escape at each round, effectively voiding the use of your stealth and the whole dinosaur ordeal.
And I might be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure ER/BR in Minstrel Song only grow on victory, which means you're not getting punished for fleeing so much like you would in other games, so you get your dino cake and you eat it too, and sell it later for massive dosh, and dosh is an incredibly powerful asset in MS compared to a lot of other SaGa games.

This isn't really an argument of how the game isn't "hardcore" enough, but more of how certain mechanics aren't really as polished or significant as they should and end up hindering other mechanics in the process, no SaGa game is perfect, or any game for that matter, not to mention that when you're so ambitious in terms of mechanical complexity you inevitably fuck up something along the way.

I bought it when it came out early last year, and ended up quitting at one point. I kept not being able to learn the skills I needed, and I got stuck in a state where I couldn't get the outcome I wanted of a quest and one of the races ended up getting wiped out or something. Didn't have the motivation to continue on after that.

>>5440470
>old good, new bad

Honestly the only reason LP doesn't seem like a big feature to you is because you're already compensating for it strategically before it becomes a problem. It's definitely a part of the gameplay, it's just playing it's part before you're actually made to face the consequences.

Besides, I've absolutely reached the same kind of redline that Unlimited has in SF just by rushing through the game and throwing myself at bosses or the dragon duo without putting in the grind. It's usually a pretty good time!

why's she so cute bros?

>>5440470
You are not obligated to buy the remaster, you can still play the original game. I trust any SaGa remasters and remakes due to how much Kawazu has a hand in them in one way or another.
>>5441130
I wouldn't get too worried about that. I never got the winged fairy race or what ever, and there are probably other quests I might not have completed. You are still given enough resources to complete the game without needing to complete every quest.

>>5441151
As I said, I'm biased by years and years of playing the games, so take what I said with that in mind.
Still, I stand by my opinion overall, on a design principle more than personal feelings, which would otherwise lead me to root more for Unlimited than RS2 since I like how LP work in that game a lot more than the rest of the series.

>doing the mermaid quest
>forgot to exit out the dang termite quest
>egg shell objective can't trigger since few years went by
>hunter won't talk about the fucking nest just "get on muh back, Nigger!"
BULLLLLLLLLLLLLSHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

>>5438787
Graphics don't scale properly to docked resolution on Switch. Backgrounds and sprites visibly clash and it does not scroll smoothly.

Still miles better than their Final Fantasy remakes, of course. And unlike those games, Romancing Saga 2 was never a beautiful game.

Just a warning, the switch version of RS2 has input lag that hasn't been fixed since release.

>>5438787
>that text good
absolute state of you. please fuck off to a /vg/ gacha thread

>>5443752
>>egg shell objective can't trigger since few years went by
was it few as in less than a decade?
as long you're still playing as the current emperor, the quest can still be active.
but you have to go back and talk to the witch again to be active again

>>5443991
cope
still looks better than the original

>>5442797
>Still, I stand by my opinion overall, on a design principle more than personal feelings, which would otherwise lead me to root more for Unlimited than RS2 since I like how LP work in that game a lot more than the rest of the series.
You didn't even convince yourself you liar

>>5444258
well i just did that but hitted myself to another dead end
i forgot to do the Ordon Mines quest...

>>5440512
>>5438835
>>5440596

I couldn't find the download on android, is it not available on google play store?

Thanks OP for the heads-up, I've been looking for a new switch game

>>5444418
It is. I have it and just checked, it's still on Google Play.

Ah good, right after I already paid full price.

>>5444338
>Like one system more than another but acknowledge it's not as polished
>Be honest and objective about it
>HURR YOU LIAR
I see this place's average IQ is getting even lower than usual, it isn't enough to have dumbass graphix extremism, we also have to deal with terminal stupidity.

Any issues with the vita version? That seems like the best place to play this.

>>5445330
slight loading times when changing areas while other versions are almost instantaneous

I think PC with the patches might be best. Haven't seen PS4 though.

>>5440237
>Why would I own a Switch?
I'm asking myself the same question, a hybrid handheld/home console whith less battery life than OP's sex experience.

There's one thing I can't quite wrap my head around: how many battles to fight. If I fight absolutely nothing the game is impossible, if you fight a handful of high exp enemies the game becomes super easy, if you fight effortless regular enemies the game becomes a slog (and I feel like I'm strategizing poorly by fighting inefficient fights). How do you approach this?

>>5445330
Some areas have slight loading times once you move through them, mostly noticeable in places like Eilunep or some of the temples of the ancients.
Anon here>>5445352 is right, PC is the best version overall but if you're gunning for something portable, Vita is the way to go since both iOS and Switch versions have input lag.
>>5445430
>How do you approach this?
There's no real approach to it, if you're good enough to fight as little as possible and also fight the strongest enemies available and get away with it, then you deserve being rewarded for that, the game becomes "easy" mostly because you know what to expect already and can plan ahead so that you can keep winning with little actual time spent on fighting, it's called "learning the game".
At that point the only thing you can do is vary your approach to fighting things, trying different strategies and party composition, making thematic parties and so on, roleplaying in short.
>inb4 but it's still 2 EZ 4 ME

>>5438787
>a 2D ramstered game running on 30 fps
Yikes

>>5445168
objectivity is a spook you moron, you're not being honest or nice you're being a sissy backpeddling halfway before you even come to a stop

>>5437741
/ogg/

>>5438787
I honestly like it. Playing jrpgs in Japanese with low resolutions gets old.

>>5445430
keep in mind the game goes into bullshit mode if you fight too much than accomplishing shit
the amount of battles you faces is the power of your enemies

>>5445927
see>>5440474

Narwhals are cute

>>5441624
>he likes the whore Hero

>>5446172
my headcanon is that she assimilated a penis and is the alpha lesbian who uses mind control to make men into slaves

>>5446106
t. Subier

>>5440449
Death is part of the game because also when you beat a really big boss your party disbands

>>5440596
>RS2 has the best LP standard, later game got more and more lenient to the point that LPs don't matter anymore by Frontier, they should at least give you a hard mode where your LPs do not regenerate at inns, Unlimited and MS where the only games where LP actually kind of mattered, and even so, only Unlimited really makes them matter.

You know what pisses me off the most? That the games are all about savescumming anyways, so using finite resources like LP to give a sense of urgency and threat doesn't work.

And by savescumming I'm referring to the ease of access that you have to make quick saves on the spot, as well as the ease to reset the game so you can load with a button configuration shortcut. At this point, not reloading your save when the fucking AI decides to fuck your archer is a missplay.

Now, how do you reintroduce a sense of urgency? I can't see a way without revamping the save system AND the LP system.

Seriously, trying not to reload your game when they permafuck your LP is like playing Fire Emblem and trying not to reload when your party member dies.

>>5446038
I can't unsee the 30 fps like come the fuck on, it's not like the physics are bound to the framerate.

>>5447949
>That the games are all about savescumming anyways
If you actually have to savescum in a SaGa game it means you didn't understand a single thing about basic mechanics and are just slamming your head against the wall hoping what little RNG the games offer to you turns in your favour.
This isn't Wizardry where the RNG seed for enemy batches looks at you wrong, you get ambushed by 9 master ninjas and die like a bitch.
>I can't see a way without revamping the save system
The save system is fine as it is, save points are just cancer that has no place in RPGs and only serves to artificially lengthen games, it makes sense in something like a platformer where player skill is tested in navigating environments with a very precise design and intent behind them, having to slog again through a single, piss easy and often cutscene riddled segment just because a single encounter fucked you over ain't punishing, it's tedious and only makes you drop the game, especially when you get older and can't deal with the busywork part of it all.
>trying not to reload your game when they permafuck your LP
RS2 is built around constantly updating your team so no character is truly irreplaceable until the very last stretch, it's a needless concern that only OCD people have, I could kind of understand if other entries had it given how you have a limited number of characters, but you don't, and even in the case of those games with permadeath like MS or RS3 you're given ample opportunities to rez dead characters, either with bribing Death or timing your battle with the four noble demons so you exploit the four mass revivals you have, in the case anyone even dies to begin with.

The LP system got too lenient through the years and that isn't right, but changing the save system is not good and doesn't really help with anything, it would only make things worse, there's a reason not a single SaGa game strayed from that model since the very first game.

>>5447949
>At this point, not reloading your save when the fucking AI decides to fuck your archer is a missplay.

Unless the archer has important techs you really want available at the school for the next gen, there isn't any reason outside of sentimentality to save scum her back from a combat death. The party wipes from a 70 year time jump either way.

>>5447951
It's a fucking turn based JRPG.

>>5447949
The only game in the series where save scumming would really be useful is Unlimited, mainly for magic tablet farming and fortuneteller abuse. Unlimited also happens to be the only game in the series that doesn't allow you to save scum.

>>5447983
Techs on dead characters still pass on

>>5447949
I started typing up a response than saw the end of your post. Stop ruining your own fun and go play both fire emblem and rs2 on iron man mode.

>>5448085
Well, technically you can savescum in Unlimited, but it's immensely time consuming to do so unless you're actually savescumming with savestates through an emulator, especially if you're forging stuff.

>>5437741
Which one should I play on the snes?

>>5448152
Either RS2 or 3 are fine, but the remaster for 2 is the better option given the massive buffix and the one for 3 is coming out soon, so it's up to you.
RS1 is fairly janky nowadays, with lots and lots of design flaws despite having many interesting ideas for its time, Minstrel Song on the PS2 is a competent remake of that, with a lot of content that was supposed to be in the original SNES version, but also plays a lot differently, a middle ground can be achieved with the Wonderswan colour remaster, which is basically an update to the SNES version, with more content, bugfixes and a few QoL improvements like having a dash function.
Overall I don't personally suggest you to play through SNES RS1 unless you happen to be a real hardcore fan of the series and can deal with it, it is historically interesting if you want to see how the series changed with the jump on home consoles and how certain mechanics started, but outside of that it's fairly hard for most people to get into it, on the other hand it will make RS2 feel even more impressive when you can see for yourself the massive jump in quality that happened between the two.

>>5437741
So I bought this on Switch, the game itself seems fine but does anyone know what the hell is up with the input delay?

>>5440540
>>5440561
Gideon cancelled it

>>5448582
The Switch version has input lag, yeah.
If you want a portable one, get the Vita version, otherwise, PC.

>>5447997
Which makes this shit even more unforgiving. It's not like it's demanding even on mobile devices so why lock it to 30?

>>5448648
at least it won't be him doing it

>>5448141
>iron man mode
Never understood what the fuck iron man in FE is about, since, once you lose a character in the current map, having your main hero killed means you load the map all over again, so you win more by losing.

>>5448989
No, that makes zero sense. If you get a game over your game is over. Delete your save file.

>>5449198
>If you get a game over your game is over. Delete your save file

Lmao literally nobody does that in 10+ hours long games.

>>5450069
Those turbo-autist house rule Pokémon players do.