/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5431792
Only a small but still sizable percentage chance it'll affect you in your lifetimes, but a guarantee for the next few generations. Depends how old you live to be. Your great grandchildren won't be playing on your CRT as adults though, as it won't be working then. Unfortunately things are going to get a lot worse than just needing a capacitor replacement.

>>5431792
>Is console hardware failure due to age going to affect us in our lifetimes?

Only with retards that improperly store their consoles. An NES will probably make it out to a few hundred years. Of course the capacitors will have long dried out, but they can be replaced..maybe. Then again some caps work after several decades. Who knows.

>>5431792
>What about CRTs?
They're going to all eventually burn out or at least have problems as time goes on. Inside a CRT you have electrons being fired all the time and then focused and fine-tuned. They're complicated and probably will all be gone within our children's lifetimes, if not our own.

>>5431792
Not me. I don't let kids open my consoles to clean/mod them so their age and inexperience is never going kill any of my consoles.

>>5432045
Your consoles will die of natural causes anyways, anon. It will just take a few more decades than otherwise.

>>5431815
>Only with retards that improperly store their consoles
what if I leave my consoles out in my room, with sunlight hitting them every morning?

>>5432375
>with sunlight hitting them every morning?

That depends on how long that sunlight is hitting them. I'd not underestimate the damage direct sunlight can do, which can add a significant amount of heat, nevermind the possible bleaching. Move them out of way or put them somewhere with subdued lighting for best results and keep the temperature between 68-74 degrees Fahrenheit if you can.

>>5431815
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/do-cathode-ray-tubes-die/
>In most cases a CRT that is not abused is good for around 30,000-50,000 hours of operation before it is worn out. Operating at excessively high brightness or contrast can kill it a lot faster, double the beam current means very roughly 1/4th the life.
These guys seem reliable.

>>5432387
>Operating at excessively high brightness or contrast can kill it a lot faster

That's true for all CRTs. And they all will eventually die, it's a matter of when not if, but of course some will fare longer than others and there will be some freaks that refuse to die. Still, for all intents and purposes, they're going away. I had an irreplaceable one die a year ago and I may never find a replacement unless I cannibalize the same cab, which means buying another, which will then not have the correct monitor anymore..

I can read a schematic and operate a soldering iron, so probably not within my lifetime at least.

At optimal visual settings, a CRT will last around 15,000 hours of use. If you play every day for 2 hours you'll get twenty years out of it.

>>5431792
Unless you are currently dying of something and plan to check out soon...
yes, and yes.

what about a BVM CRT that only has 30k hours on it

>>5432885
Going to die soon, keep brightness at lowest setting

>>5431792
Game consoles will begin dying permanently over the next 20 years or so due to caps blowing and other components losing efficiency. This causes electrical surges that build up over time and cause irreparable damage. You have to understand that home electronics for the mass market are made with pretty cheap and shitty components. They're not made to last, or for heavy use. They're made to be affordable as toys for middle-class families/users. The newer the systems, the less resilient due to shrinkage of manufacturing processes making the transistors more fragile and susceptible to damage.

>>5432917
Atari 2600s, NES's, Genesis's, Super Nintendo, and N64s are going to outlast us all. Disc-based consoles, not so much.

>>5432927
>Disc-based consoles, not so much.
People are already developing alternatives for these systems, like SD card readers.

>>5433016
Their circuit boards are still going to fail. Emulation is both superior and the only way forward.

>>5433027
If you know how to fix/maintain electronics, this won't be an issue in your lifetime.

>>5433210
Until you need to fix an irreplaceable ceramic capacitor.

>>5433016
Which defeats the purpose of even playing those "original systems." At that point, just play on a PC with an emulator.

Atari 2600s will probably last until the heat death of the universe. In 15 years however, there will be no working Xboxes left.

>>5432398
>That's true for all CRTs. And they all will eventually die
You know they used to rebuild tubes by replacing the electron guns, right?

>>5433701
>In 15 years however, there will be no working Xboxes left.

15 years for Xboxes of any stripe is extremely generous; why are you so optimistic? I'd give them all 5 years tops the way Xtards handle their systems. Yes, different types of people handle their systems differently. Beside the whole MS doesn't give a shit about quality, thing.

8 and 16-bit machines could be recreated in FPGA, in fact they have a just about 100% accurate NES FPGA.

>>5433714
>in fact they have a just about 100% accurate NES FPGA.
>just about

^that means it won't play Castlevania III.

>>5433684
please tell me you're not serious. You could have written RAM, DAC, PPU or anything BUT a fucking ceramic capacitor. Those are still being manufactured in all standard values, the same values that existed in the 70s and 80s. Even if the cap that broke isn't marked, you can just borrow someone else's console and use an LC meter. The only problematic parts in cartridge consoles are the proprietary ones such as CPUs. FPGAs are our only hope, but let's be real. If we don't do it in our lifetimes, the zoomer generation certainly won't give a shit about it after we die. Same deal with emulators. Then again, I don't really care since I won't be around.

>>5433704
>You know they used to rebuild tubes by replacing the electron guns, right?

You know that almost no one does that anymore, right? You have to order bulk from China to get a new CRT anything, anon. And good luck getting an expert to do the work. lol

>>5433715
>>5433714
The Analog NT? Yes that does support all the advanced mappers like MMC5 and VRC6. This was designed by some really good people who did their research on the NES hardware well.

>>5433716
>please tell me you're not serious. You could have written RAM, DAC, PPU or anything BUT a fucking ceramic capacitor.

^Ah, a bullshitting anon that actually has no clue as to what they're saying. Go on. :)

>>5433716
>You could have written RAM
Since when is RAM a proprietary component?

>>5433719
>The Analog NT?

Please tell me you bought that hunk of junk so I can have a hearty laugh. Please. The Analogue of Shit Nigger Trap? It has no reason to exist and it doesn't even work because the slightest movement or breeze fucks up the game. lol

>>5433720
show me a non-integrated ceramic cap that can't be replaced then

>>5433684
Why would that be irreplaceable? They are commonly manufactured. If your exact size isnt available you could series and parallel appropriate caps to match it.

Or even need replacing. Ceramic caps dont typically fail unless your voltage just got totally fucked by something

>>5433717
>You know that almost no one does that anymore, right?
Say in 15 years when the supply of working CRTs is used up, there will be a demand to have tubes restored.

>>5433730
>They are commonly manufactured
^ more high-larious lies. Go on. :)

Bullshitting anon is claiming that one of THE most despicable and electronics-ending problem doesn't exist. Neat. :D

>>5433730
>They are commonly manufactured
^ more high-larious lies. Go on. :)

Bullshitting anon is claiming that one of THE most despicable and electronics-ending problems doesn't exist. Neat. :D

>>5433735
>Say in 15 years when the supply of working CRTs is used up, there will be a demand to have tubes restored.
lol No. in 15 years society will be even LAZIER and no one will want to work on them.

>>5433729
Open up any 1980s arcade game monitor* and get back to me, champ.

*or don't since they're dangerous

FPGAs haven't yet reached the point where 32-bit hardware can be recreated though.

>>5431792
My CRT is going out. The sound is fucked so now I'm using external speakers, but the internal ones will pop randomly.
Occasionally lines will shift out of place for a split second, and recently the screen will turn black and white for a few seconds.

>>5433741
This is really low quality bait.

>>5433735
>>5433704
>>5433717
Anything is possible with enough money and willpower.

Storing consoles in a proper, climate controlled environment will do wonders for their longevity, you know.

>>5433750
No it isn't, dude. You're in a fantasy world; CRTs are not coming back, unless they're very small. Very, very small. So no, the old ones are not going to be replaced en masse. This is unlike vinyl records because CRTs are heavy which equals lots more cost.

Yeah and those capacitors are all the wrong ones for the stuff you think they fix. Me=actual experience. You=Internet experience.

>>5433760
Are you maybe considering mica caps ceramic caps?

>>5433754
~And the Chinese hearts grew 8 sizes that day, so they manufactured CRTs for anon and ate the shipping costs to make it work.~

I love fantasy stories too. :)

>>5433760
How many farad and what voltage strength are you trying to replace big boy? Name one specific cap you havent been able to replace in a product and why

>>5433767
lol No need to get specific. I'll say the games and you do your own homework: Jr. Pac-Man and Donkey Kong 3.

>>5433768
>lol No need to get specific. I'll say the games and you do your own homework: Jr. Pac-Man and Donkey Kong 3.
Nice grandpa shit. Name something that fucking matters.

>>5432887
Don't be ridiculous. I've got one with close to 100k hours on the original tube and it calibrates identically to my 6k hour one.

>>5433772
>Nice grandpa shit. Name something that fucking matters.

Zoom on, bullshitting anon. I fucking knew you were full of shit. :D lol "something that matters" It's almost bait, but you're for real, aren't you?

I used to have a crummy 14" ADI PC monitor. Retired it after a decade of hard use because it had leaking caps and couldn't hold the brightness/focus, but the CRT was still in great shape and plenty bright.

>>5433730
those cheap ceramics in the Famicom tend to crack.
>>5433762
he's not considering anything, just talking out of his ass. There are cheap ceramics with less accurate value and strong microphonic effect, and better ones, usually multilayered that more or less fix these problems. Consoles, tvs and monitors usually use the former, depending on its function in the circuit.
The high voltage ones are certainly a hassle to find, but you can still just bulk order them on ebay or aliexpress.
Polipropylene and other film caps are the ones that are really harder to find, if he actually wrote that, he would be kinda right. But he didn't.

God is punishing buyfags

>>5433794
t. joyless broke anon

lmao the “””collectors””” in this thread are pathetic

>>5433792
You are so full of shit. Getting sick of know-nothings playing expert on the Internet.

>>5433804
How the hell do you think arcades or barcades happen?

>>5433805
>literally doesn't argue against any "bullshit" in my post
nice one

>>5433804
You and your communists friends are free to pool together a glorious community 100% public owned or not owned since property is always bad, amirite?

>>5433804
You and your communists friends are free to pool together a glorious community 100% public owned arcade, or not owned since property is always bad, amirite?

>>5433812
>nice one
Thanks.

>>5433792
https://console5.com/store/famicom-cap-kit-original-hvc-001.html

Dunno about the Famicom, but the toaster NES used high quality Nichicon caps so you don't have to worry too much there.

>>5433768
You too shit at your job to make a surface mount 4kv board to hold your $1 470pf capacitor? Theres only 138 models aavailable!

Oh whoops. I did find one cap (4kv at 470 pf) that while available, would not be reasonably within reach because of a minimum order of 4000... but that only applies if you want through hole mounting. You could just get a surface mount and make you own through hole.

Except... whoops sorry. I read it wrong first time, and its only 2kv needed. Dang, and those are readily available, minimum order 1.

Wow, anon is completely full of shit. Who would have thought.

>>5433828
yes they use decent electrolytics, but there are a lot of caps in the Famicom that are just plain-ass unbranded ceramics. Looks like they aren't even included in that kit? The bigger ones usually crack sooner that an electrolytic dries out.

>>5433828
It's funny how Nintendo spent more money on the NES than the Famicom; better caps, detachable controllers, cartridge PCBs didn't use epoxy ROMs, composite output instead of just shit RF. If only they'd wired the external sound line in a way that it was actually usable.

https://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2014-05-24-Classic%20II%20capacitor%20replacement.htm

Cap replacement in vintage gear is annoying, but doable.

>>5433843
Zoom zoom!

>>5433808
A bunch of faggots with beards and cabbie hats get together to play Turtles In Time and drink local microbrews while their girlfriends are kind of poking around on the pinball machines (no credits or balls in play) and wondering when they can finally go home

>>5433873
SEETHING

>>5433863
>the sound a boomer makes when completely btfo by someone not falling for his shitty bait.

>>5433884
Still waiting on GLORIOUS RED arcade, comrade.

>>5433891
That was, I went entirely through the ceramic caps in the dk3 schematic and the only one available in less then THOUSANDS of different options was the 2kv 470pf. Which was still available anyway.

>>5433905
And you'll never touch a real one.

>>5433792
>those cheap ceramics in the Famicom tend to crack.
Through what mechanism fuckstick? Flexion is what cracks ceramic caps and multilayer are even more susceptible.

>>5433907
Why would I? I'm am emufag anyway.
That's not what the argument was about it was about how about exposing you larping as a competent repairman because you were spreading fuddlore.

If you are a real tech, you should stop because you are too stupid to search for commonly available parts.

>>5433970
>I'm am emufag anyway.

Who isn't? The point is that you read some stuff online so now you think you know how the real world works, but you don't.

>>5433978
Yet you cant explain what magic capacitor either doesnt exist, or even if it doesnt exist at a particular value, cant be replaced satisfactorily with a combination of other caps.

You picked a horrible example to bitch about and are trying to pretend you know literally anything about electronics

>>5434006
Life lesson: People who are secure in their knowledge don't feel the need to explain every minutia to pretenders online.

>>5434016
You could have just said something that makes sense like how certain ICs are rare and irreplaceable like sid chips or something. But no, you picked fucking capacitors.

>>5434030
>But no, you picked fucking capacitors.

I love how you think that's a linchpin of some sorts. Zoom!

>>5434037
Wow!!!! You are very old and very wise

>>5434097
Out of the mouth of babes.

>>5434016
>maybe if I pretend being cagey is a virtue they won't notice I'm full of shit

>>5434016

>>5433843
>You could just get a surface mount and make you own through hole.
guess what, that's exactly how through-hole caps are made now:
https://twitter.com/eevblog/status/1088727364362588160

>>5434135
You're the one the keeping this going to get a response, so I'm glad you posted that pic because that's what you're doing.

>>5434124
Not everyone feels the need to explain past what they're previously given for reasons sometimes unknown to you, but your ego makes this a contest.

>>5434135

Jesus christ what a shitshow.
Here's my take. I think that the consoles without moving parts will last a lifetime. I don't see how electronic parts can just wear out and break aside from the previously mentioned leaky caps. While tedious, that seems like an easy fix. I am worried, however, for stuff that uses CD drives. The PSX has been demonstrated to have a somewhat low quality laser that can get burnt out after 20 years of use. While it's an easy fix now, I fear that in 40 or 60 years you just plain won't be able to use the console's disc drive without making a custom part yourself.
In the end, it's a definite maybe whether stuff'll work. And I think by the time we get to that point we'll be able to replicate it completely with FPGAs and emulators, and by that time I'll be too old to care about hardware accuracy.
CRTs are fucked though. We need to find a solution to that.

>>5434139
>Not everyone feels the need to explain past what they're previously given for reasons
Yeah, such as when they can't because they were talking out their ass and got called on it.

>>5431792
eventually the capacitors transistors and resistors will go bad and so will the solder points so yes eventually

all those can be fixed if you have the know how or money

>>5434157
>I don't see how electronic parts can just wear out and break aside
If you keep them in proper storage conditions. Extreme heat/cold/humidity can wreck ICs.

>>5434153
I always liked this guy better than trollface

>>5434158
An admitted emulation-only guy is claiming to know all the ins and outs of every capacitor on every arcade game monitor, and *I"m talking out of my ass? lol

>>5434190
Not emulatorfag, faggotfag.

>>5431792
Yes.
>>5432885
>BVM
They're garbage for retro gaming.

>>5434164
>Extreme heat/cold/humidity can wreck ICs.

I've also seen ICs inside a Dragon's Lair NES game that were ruined from possibly moisture. I think DL has extra ram inside the cart, this was what was damaged. The game probably wasn't properly stored and corrosion had ate a leg away inside the chip. You may have been able to sand/grind the chip and resolder, but it was definitely ruined. I was able to replace the ram chip and it worked. I guess what I'm getting at very poorly is that corrosion can be a thing, be it from leaky caps that destroy ICs or moisture. Your childhood games might be ok if you stored them properly, but any new games could be suspect for damage.

>>5434315
>They're garbage for retro gaming.

As a BVM owner I agree. They are godly for 4:3 anime and old shows in that format. PS1 and beyond are nice on them, and 16 bit is as good as any CRT, but 8bit and before looks like dogshit.

>>5434418
>it from leaky caps that destroy ICs
Leaking electrolytic caps are more likely to damage traces than anything since the contents of the cap ooze onto the trace. However, surface traces can be repaired if damaged. The really bad thing is self-destructing batteries that corrode PCBs and cause irreversible damage.

ICs get damaged from mainly overheating, bad PSUs, and exposure to extreme conditions.

>>5433684
kids.lol

>>5433723
>since when is readingcomprehension a useful thing

>>5433746
kids.lol
kids calling people champ. lololol

>>5433760
kids larping this hard

>>5433768
>googles desperately
>posts irrelevant results he doesn't understand
>tries to hide ignorance by being obtuse
>proves himself a fool

>>5434016
>Life lesson: kids on the internet bullshit
FTFYK


>>5434139
kids projecting this hard

Capacitors are mostly there to protect ICs from voltage spikes and for sound chips to act as filtering against noise. Electronics devices doesn't absolutely need capacitors to function, but it's safer to have them in to protect from spikes and ripple current.

>>5433697
wut

>>5433724
>>5433719
So...which one of you is right? I'm confus.

>>5433760
>You're in a fantasy world; CRTs are not coming back
That's making a pretty sweeping claim there.

>>5432375
>letting sunlight in your room

Just buy good cap brands like Panasonic, Nichicon, or Rubycon, not a 100 bag of caps off of Ali Express and you're good.

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?50961-SE-30-Re-cap

>>5434547
>The really bad thing is self-destructing batteries that corrode PCBs and cause irreversible damage.

http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4205

Thank sweet merciful Jesus he discovered that battery before it did any damage.

>>5434609
>>5434629
Jesus the level of retardation in that first link. "25 year old solder that doesn't want to come off". I can't even begin to describe the level of beginner leddit tier shit that's going on in that link.

The moral of the story is, use good components, saving $2 on a set of caps isn't worth fucking with if you're taking the time to do the easy yet somewhat time consuming job of recapping, just get the good stuff.

Also, please learn to properly rework electronics before posting stupidity online, even in leddit tier forums like those linked. Having literally retards posting stuff like this is how you get misinformation like "burn at 1-2x speed" all over the fucking internet decades later.

>>5434593
>having a closed dark room with artificial light at best

>>5434569
eh,
>doesn't absolutely need
is an overstatement, especially when it comes to older electronics. Like if you had a console with RF output the frequency was tuned via inductors and capacitors. They're also used to shunt oscillator outputs to logic levels, you can see that even in the PSX. Or HV caps in a crt monitor for voltage multiplying..
Of course non of these are electrolytic, but large body ceramics also give in easily. Multilayer ones achieve the same value in a way smaller body, so they don't have this problem.

>>5432398
>>5432387
Luckily, emissive light displays are making a comeback.
OLED is the new CRT. With a good scanline generator and a high enough resolution, we can get perfect CRT emulation.

>>5434629
>I found one of the capacitors leaked
It's an accumulator of a sort I guess.

>>5431792
>Is console hardware failure due to age going to affect us in our lifetimes?
Yes and no. Systems will fail, and be lost forever. However, many of the failure points are known, and there are "work-arounds". CD drives are a big one, and in the next 10-20 years they will perfect disc drive emulation. Also, there will be "analog" replacements with future FPGA technology. Sure, there is no FPGA for 5th generation yet, but technology is there and will be improved.

>What about CRTs?
As with all things, they will eventually fail. I think that there is little desire to replicate them, and I think that there will be some sort of "HD" solution. LCDs are not a great replacement, but they are just an affordable and economical technology. Most normal people don't get into the issues with latency and 15khz, nor do they have a clue what that is. I doubt they would give 2 fucks about it. The meme is true, but most people think "New good/old bad" and don't consider for a moment that there are pros and cons for each and they really are a different technology. Normal people just know that if you plug it in, it shows motion and bright lights, and don't over think it.

>>5434667
Sir, this is a drive thru.

>>5433792
>>5433760
The metric by which one replaces a capacitor is its voltage rating, capacitance, and ESR.
Modern ceramic caps are by FAR superior to anything made in the 1970s, 1980s, or the 1990s.
https://forum.digikey.com/t/why-ceramic-capacitors-may-seem-out-of-spec-but-aren-t/892

>>5433697
There is a huge difference between playing on original hardware with an SD card and emulating.

>>5434686
>Modern caps are by FAR superior to anything made in the 1970s, 1980s, or the 1990s.
Fixed that for you.

>>5434629
Blue barrel batteries were one of the single worst ideas ever.

>>5434683
>However, many of the failure points are known, and there are "work-arounds".
*cough*heat sinking Commodore ICs*cough*

It's more of a problem with systems that use custom chips. Something like an Apple II or ZX Spectrum is just made of TTLs and there's no VIC-II or SID or anything like that in there.

>>5434712
If you want to nitpick both of those systems actually do have custom chips in them, although they're really just a bunch of basic TTL functions consolidated into a single IC so not really the same thing as an SID and recreating them is simple, in fact I believe there already exists an FPGA for the Speccy.

Actually an SID isn't hard to recreate other than the analog filters which could be a problem. The core chip functions are nothing special though.

>>5434016
>>5434037
Sorry anon, but that other anon has posted a lot of evidence and all you've posted are quips and smuggies, so i'll believe the other guy.

>>5434783
It doesn't affect anyone in any case. This don't matter. None of this matters.

>>5434551

Here, you deserve a (You) for at least trying

>>5434551
Sorry you're angry, champ.

>>5434579
It plays all the games, but it's a hunk of shit, anon, I'm not kidding for a millisecond on how finicky the cartridge slot is, of which does not grip the carts too tightly, but in the NT's case, too lightly.

>>5434578
It means exactly that and it's perfectly logical. If you have a "classic car" and "it's totally classic!" except..it now has a CD/MP4 player in the thing, it is no longer totally classic. And putting an SD card reader into a disc-based system is cool and useful, it's like putting a modern engine in a classic car and then claiming it's "still the original experience", which it surely would not be.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's brilliant that people are thinking to do that to get around dying laser assemblies; etc, but it in no way preserves the systems in terms of historical accuracy and arguably with the entire experience. That is, selecting a file from a hardware/emulator hybrid cannot feel like physically loading a disc.

>>5434675
Fuck OLED. Give me CLEDIS.

>>5434859
To me it mattered, because i was believing the other guy that caps for these consoles are becoming unavailable already, until this second guy came along and called him out. So, if its only specialized ICs that are irreplaceable for the foreseeable future the problem of unrepairable failures and hardware scarcity is still decade(s) off.
I do appreciate the Carl reference though.

>>5434928
Just because OLED isnt perfect doesnt mean it's not an amazing tech. If i could afford it i'd be using a 55" OLED right now. MicroLED tech is a decade from being commercially available, two decades from being standard/cheap.

>>5431792
Consoles with optical media, yeah. Everything else, nah. You don't have to worry about crts disappearing in your lifetime, but your kids will. They probably won't give a shit either.

>>5433697
>>5434689
Sup, Groepaz.

>>5434991
>So, if its only specialized ICs that are irreplaceable for the foreseeable future the problem of unrepairable failures and hardware scarcity is still decade(s) off
FPGAs can solve this problem for the most part, but the ICs need to be decapped and studied thoroughly to understand how they work if you're to do a cycle-exact recreation. NES FPGAs have been all-but nailed, but then again there was already a tradition of Famiclones for decades.

>>5434896
So it's no different than the good ol' toaster NES. Gee, this thing is really that accurate.

>the Analog NT has a slightly loose cartridge slot
That's the biggest complaint you have? I was hoping for something good like it can't run your favorite obscure Taiwanese Famicom game.

Someone please make an FPGA while there's still working ones left.

>>5435873
c+4 has no game

>>5435918
http://plus4world.powweb.com/games.php?l=A&cols=&icons=

Hundreds of them.

BTW, if you use an Analog NT with the HDMI output it will run slightly slower than a real NES because the refresh is exactly 60Hz while a real NES is 60.3Hz. By using the analog outputs however, it will be 100% speed correct.

>>5435873
https://hackaday.io/project/11460-fpgated

If there's one retro system that really badly needs replacement ICs, it's that.

Commodore ICs were notorious for overheating because MOS never upgraded their mid-1970s fabrication technology which led to stuff like the VIC-II and SID needing dual-rail power. For contrast the Atari 8-bit ICs all used a single 5V rail and none of them have thermal issues.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/274189-prolonging-atari-800xl-life/

>>5434138
if it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid.

>>5435998
>>5435873
Why do Plus/4s fuck themselves so much?

>>5436154
Overheating and manufacturing issues with the chipset. It's not a matter of when but if they die, so if you have a working unit, you must (and I say must) heat sink the CPU and TED. Also rip out the 4-in-1 ROMs, they're useless and you'll cut down on power usage and heat generation.

>>5435873
>FPGA
Why? One solid example of where that would be needed?

>>5436971
>>5436162

Bil Herd said he's surprised any working Plus/4s are left at all.

>>5432846
Any CRTs in use today are most likely second hand, so part of that time is already spent.

>>5435932
I'm absolutely dying to play obscure Hungarian text adventures, anon.

Fuck that shit, I thought there were worthwhile games on this thing.

>>5437086
>it doesn't have AAA Japanese games so it's not worth preserving

>>5437065
So nothing. That's what I thought.

>>5436971
FPGA/CPLD is easier than replacing the custom chips with a huge pile of 74 series.

>>5437071
Yes and although people aren't using them for 2 hours every day when they're a retro gaming hobby screen, they were used more than 2 hours back when they were serving their original purpose. I would hate the feeling of being afraid to turn on such an expensive item I own

>>5438260
?
The proprietary MOS processors overheat and have a very high failure rate. You cant go buy a new one without robbing another system.

You could make a replacement out of an fpga, but then it's an fpga.

>>5438426
Faulty manufacturing. The Plus/4 chipset was one of the first ones Commodore did in HMOS and they had a difficult time getting a grip on the doping process which led to the ICs overheating and self-destructing.

>>5438265
It's also easier than potty training an elephant. Nether of which are necessary to accomplish anything meaningful

>>5438426
I can literally picture you literally shaking right now as you imagine a chip that's not needed for anything except autism self destructing because of it's shitty design. Autism for the sake of autism isn't a solid example. A game that runs at more than a few FPS and can't be emulated perfectly on a pocket calculator would be an example of a solid example.

>>5438492
I don't know what allergy medication you're on, but cut the dosage.

What about disk rot? I have some 10+ year old burned PS1 games that are starting to decay around the edges but they still play perfectly.

Meanwhile I tried to burn megaman legends onto a modern maxwell CDR and it doesn't even get past the bootup/main loading screen. Is there a best all round CDR? I heard it was Verbatim or JVC.

I have a real varied experience with my burned PS1 games. Parasite Eve 2 for example plays the FMVs flawlessly but my copy of Vagrant Story plays the FMV at about 2fps but the in-game works totally fine.

>>5438505
Aren't burned discs supposedly really hard on the laser?

>>5438512

Depends on the brand I think? Most of my old CD's are Infiniti with a completely white top man I loved those cdrs.

>>5438492
>posting in a thread about hardware preservation
>lol y u car a bout hardwarm???? Autisma!!! AA!

We are just discussing like this hardware IS going bad and impossible to replace at a reasonable price, and even fpga replacement would be expe seve as duck

While also saying no what are you retarded? Ceramic caps, resistors, transistors and ttl are not irreplaceable or even rare or expensive.

>>5438545
>and even fpga replacement would be expe seve as duck
Even back when your vintage hardware was new, it wasn't exactly cheap. An Apple II cost $1200 and just for the bare computer, not counting peripherals and software, so realistically it was over $2000 and adjusted for inflation that would be close to $5000 today.

>>5434153
>filename
Shit, I can't unsee it now.

>>5438557
Well yeah and fpga I'd the only reasonable choice. No one is spinning up an authentic chip fan for every dead processor either. Everyone says fpga is the easy solution when its a unique engineering project with relatively expensive parts.

>>5438689
>No one is spinning up an authentic chip fan for every dead processor either.
Lots of stuff from the 80s used NMOS fabrication which is thorougly outdated and hasn't been done in about 25 years. So in the end you would have to use FPGA anyway.

>>5438557
It's hard to grasp just how much cheaper that computer hardware is today.

>>5433697
>>5433027
Samefag

>>5433818
A glorious community owned arcade sounds great though, why do you say that like it's a bad thing?

>>5434037
You are the zoomer

>>5438501
So you still can't come up with anything. lol

>>5438545
>Is console hardware failure due to age going to affect us in our lifetimes?
>what this thread is actually about
The chip you're talking about is going to fail more due to shit design than age. An FPGA replacement wouldn't be expensive. You'd know that if you weren't just a dumb kid shouting FPGA! FPGA! A memeberry replacement would cost fuck all and you probably couldn't tell the difference. It's hilarious how all you can do is parrot an acronym and con't come up with any example of how that particular replacement is better than another.

>while also having a stroke
I guess that was a sad attempt at a strawman bit it really looked more like a stroke

>>5438701
Nope.

>>5438707
>A glorious community owned arcade sounds great though, why do you say that like it's a bad thing?

Well, the machines would be the only things eating anything, I'll grant you that. Also, they'd be treated worse since everyone would assume that someone else has more resources to fix them. Someone would need the extra resources to keep them in repair and communism isn't supposed to work that way.

>>5439845
>an fogs replacement wouldn't n
Be expensive
>$50 for bare chip

>>5439884
> >an fogs replacement wouldn't n
>Be expensive
So it was a stroke after all. Sorry to hear that. Also sorry you're a dumb little shit who likes to shitpost about things you don't understand.
>$50 for bare chip
Top kek kid. The guy who made the plus/4 close used:
>a Xilinx Spartan 3E 500k FPGA which is more than enough for implementing a whole Commodore computer except its main memory.
It costs $36.33 on babies first part site and goes for a fraction of that other places
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/xilinx-inc/XC3S500E-4PQG208C/122-1520-ND/1494078
And that's the whole system except a couple ram chips champ. A part that just emulates the TED would be a lot smaller and a lot cheaper. Might even fit in a max2
>expensive
>$50
If start saving your allowance now you could have that much by the time you hit puberty

>>5433713
>>5433701
https://www.polygon.com/2019/3/4/18250433/anthem-ps4-crash-bricking-refund-sony

I've never heard of an Atari 2600 game that caused the console to overheat and self-destruct.

>>5431792
These days, you can replace just about every chip and component in old gaming consoles, so not really.

>>5431815
What /is/ the preferred environment for storing consoles, anyway? I assume somewhere dry and cool, and where dust doesn't easily gather. Is the more isolated the better?

>>5442075
Jesus christ why are you linking to Polygon