/vr/ - Retro Games

Dark Horizons I feel is a serious offender for bad difficulty. One encounter early in the game is against a couple called Tristan and Isolde, named for a couple from what could be the archetype for romance novels. You are likely level 2 or 3 upon the encounter assuming you go to Nashkel with minimal distractions.

The issue here is that Tristan wields a powerful sword that inflicts Hold Person on anyone it strikes, and Isolde has a returning throwing dagger that gets additional attacks per round. Again, you are most likely level 2 with <15 HP to your name. If you don't get the jump on them with entangle, backstabs, and lucky saving throws they will just massacre you. God help you if you go off the beaten path, because the next time you enter their area from the south they will be right up your ass instantly.

From the same mod but there are invisible assassins at the gnoll stronghold who will prioritize and backstab the bhaalspawn, which is an instant game-over, and the mines have ridiculously-armored draugr who just refuse to take a hit. I get that difficulty mods are meant to be just that, but winning them often involves AI loopholes and bug exploits. Doesn't help that Jaheira gets up your ass every other day when you're trying to get strong enough to fend off assassins who completely outclass you in every aspect.

>>5425919
The worst mods are TuTu and BGT because they switch the game to the BG2 engine with all its issues.

>>5425952
What issues does BG2's engine have other than the summon and trap limits?

>>5425956
Kits and weapon proficiencies weren't made with BG1 in mind, which leads to abusable mechanics. In original TuTu conversions, most of the scalable powers (like Druid summons or Find Familiar) started with level 7 values because there was no reason to code their level 1 values in, which led to stuff like the Totemic Druid summons (with it's huge damage and immunity to normal weapons) soloing everything.

I still think BGT/TuTu is worth it because it lets you install SCS on BG1, though, which makes it a richer tactical experience.

>>5425980
Doesn't BGT actually fix those oddities now?

>>5426027
Not sure, but probably yes. I know EE does, Beamdog has the founder of Gibberlings 3 on staff among other things.

>>5426035
>Beamdog has the founder of Gibberlings 3 on staff
That's pretty boss.

>>5425952
>The worst mods are TuTu and BGT because they switch the game to the BG2 engine with all its issues
>Kits and weapon proficiencies weren't made with BG1 in mind, which leads to abusable mechanics
This is a profoundly shit opinion. It's like whining that guns shouldn't exist because if you shot yourself in the face you'd die.
All you have to do is, and I know it's a hard concept, but NOT be a Totemic Druid or other 'abusable' class.

>>5426075
>All you have to do is, and I know it's a hard concept, but NOT be a Totemic Druid or other 'abusable' class.
But what if I want to be a Totemic Druid because I find the gameplay or sheer concept to be fun? TD's powers aren't a gamebreaker in BG2, they just start off too strong in BG1 because the conversion is just that, a straight conversion. What if I'm playing a class that is not too overpowered in BG2 but happens to be ridiculous in BG1 (like the Beastmaster)? What if I want to be a Kensai in BG2, but have to suffer through the garbage that the kit is in BG1?

It's not like I even agree with BGT/TuTu being "worst mods", but there is plenty of room to argue that installing these conversions is a tradeoff and some people will find it more or less important. Especially insofar as BGT/TuTu installs being unable to simulate vanilla BG1's unique way of handling monster spawns on the map, for example.

>>5426325
>But what if I want to be a Totemic Druid
Well, tough shit? Without the mod you literally never could have been one in BG1 anyway, so how does blaming the mod for an imperfect conversion make sense? Commission a better mod, or fuck off.
>What if I'm playing a Beastmaster?
Same shit.
>What if I want to be a Kensai in BG2, but have to suffer through the garbage that the kit is in BG1?
Tough shit, but even more 'what the fuck is wrong with you for asking this'.
>BG2 gives you a 8-level gimmie to get the kits off their feet
>'But I want to play the kits from Lv1'
>'But wait, the kit's 2hard to play from Lv1'
Like, literally, boo-a-fucking-hoo.

>>5426387
The point here is that if I want to run a non-kit class in BG1 and a kit class in BG2 just like it has been intended (since imported characters from vanilla BG1 to 2 ask you if you want a kit), I have to fuck around with the save game in Shadowkeeper and possibly suffer in case some of the kit powers aren't implemented properly in transition.

Also, you're forgetting the "weapon specialization" part. Dual-wielding make both BG1 (and IWD:EE) much easier - bonus APR is the most sure-fire way of increasing your damage, always. Then, you have to live with the conversion giving random bullshit proficiencies to the characters that don't fit the ones from the originals. BGEE was especially rife with this sorta hackjob originally, with NPCs having incorrect starting weapons for their proficiencies or Shar-Teel being ruined as a possible archer.

Again - these are tradeoffs. And once again - I still think TuTu/BGT is worth it, but to some people these issues will be bigger, because TuTu/BGT do lose a degree of that purist experience.

Beamdog is a guilty of a number of different crimes. Here are the major ones.

1. The Enhanced Editions are essentially a collection of free mods that had existed for nearly twenty years. Beamdog gathered them all up, slapped "Enhanced Edition" on it and resold it as a new product. There's very very little in the Enhanced Editions that wasn't already out there, and most of it is stuff you don't want (like obnoxious character outlines).

2. The games didn't sell so well and the originals were still far outselling them, even twenty years after their release, so Beamdog had EVERY digital distributor stop selling the originals and ONLY sell the Enhanced Edition. If you want to buy a digital copy of the originals now, they're "bundled" into the Enhanced Edition. Now these scumbags can claim sales from people just wanting to buy the originals as their own.

3. The infamous 600+ bugs on launch. The game is still riddled with bugs (as even a perfunctory glance over their forums show) but the fact that it took nearly two years for them to get a game that had been working fine for 20 years to reach playability after launch is telling of their wild incompetence.

4. This is where we get to the ones that really piss people off. Beamdog couldn't just remaster the game, they had to fuck with the content too. New dialogue for existing NPCs like Jaheira, Viconia, Safana, Kivan, et cetera was written in to make the characters more progressive and leftist friendly. Beamdog shills will argue that "adding content isn't changing content XDDD" but it is when the new content changes the core personalities of the existing characters. This is in addition to adding a slew of their own LGBT (hitherto there were none in Baldur's Gate) NPCs, all flooded with OP attributes and magic items to encourage people to play them despite their cancer.

5. Siege of motherfucking Dragonspear.

6. >>/vr/thread/5402232#p5408278

>>5426447
>Again - these are tradeoffs. And once again - I still think TuTu/BGT is worth it, but to some people these issues will be bigger, because TuTu/BGT do lose a degree of that purist experience.
So then why call it one of the worst mods? I guess you were just shitposting?

>this mod is the worst mod because it isn't a perfect conversion of BG1 to BG2's engine, because BG1 was never meant to play played with BG2's kits
>these are tradeoffs. And I think TuTu/BGT is worth it
Fucking pointless conversation this was.

>>5426483
Salute to the nameless hero

>>5426568
>So then why call it one of the worst mods? I guess you were just shitposting?
I didn't. I never did. I was some other poster replying to someone's query as to why anyone would say >>5425952 , because while I disagree I sort of understand the mindset behind this opinion, and then I immediately followed up with
>I still think BGT/TuTu is worth it because it lets you install SCS on BG1, though, which makes it a richer tactical experience.

>>5425919
For character mods, Saerileth, Chloe, Imoen romance are all awful. The thing with NPC mods is that most of them are bad, but most of them are bad in that they have no content or are poorly conceived or have no worth, while the ones above have a large presence and are terribly written in a way that's kind of fascinating.
>you need like 17 CHA to romance Saerileth
>there's a check to see if you cheated it with the ring of human influence, and if you did she eventually finds out
Like that's actually interesting but the way it happens is so hilariously bad. If you fuck the drow in the underdark I think she literally dies of a broken heart.

>>5425919
Beamdog is a guilty of a number of different crimes. Here are the major ones.

1. The Enhanced Editions are essentially a collection of free mods that had existed for nearly twenty years. Beamdog gathered them all up, slapped "Enhanced Edition" on it and resold it as a new product. There's very very little in the Enhanced Editions that wasn't already out there, and most of it is stuff you don't want (like obnoxious character outlines).

2. The games didn't sell so well and the originals were still far outselling them, even twenty years after their release, so Beamdog had EVERY digital distributor stop selling the originals and ONLY sell the Enhanced Edition. If you want to buy a digital copy of the originals now, they're "bundled" into the Enhanced Edition. Now these scumbags can claim sales from people just wanting to buy the originals as their own.

3. The infamous 600+ bugs on launch. The game is still riddled with bugs (as even a perfunctory glance over their forums show) but the fact that it took nearly two years for them to get a game that had been working fine for 20 years to reach playability after launch is telling of their wild incompetence.

4. This is where we get to the ones that really piss people off. Beamdog couldn't just remaster the game, they had to fuck with the content too. New dialogue for existing NPCs like Jaheira, Viconia, Safana, Kivan, et cetera was written in to make the characters more progressive and leftist friendly. Beamdog shills will argue that "adding content isn't changing content XDDD" but it is when the new content changes the core personalities of the existing characters. This is in addition to adding a slew of their own LGBT (hitherto there were none in Baldur's Gate) NPCs, all flooded with OP attributes and magic items to encourage people to play them despite their cancer.

5. Siege of motherfucking Dragonspear.

>>5428054
https://desuarchive.org/vr/search/text/%22are%20essentially%20a%20collection%20of%20free%20mods%22/
Bannable now.

>>5428060
same way the Romans persecuted Christians, but they still preached the good message.

>>5426035
now if only the rest of their staff was as good

>>5427994
That's kinda funny but also pretty bullshit considering charisma is the dump stat since several other characters fill in for it

Sandrah is a total piece of shit. I'm sure a lot of effort went into her entire arc but when your character knows every cunt between saradush and Icewind dale while being related to Elminster the majority of people with even the slightest hint of standards are going to uninstall your sorry excuse for a mod. What a fucking Mary Sue she is, which is a shame nectar mechanically she is very useful to have.

How hard is it to mod characters into these games?

To use my Cleric (because literally every pure Cleric in both BGs are complete shit) I have to toss my game into the MP folder and import her. If I can just drop her into the games with nothing but a join dialog that'd be great.

>>5428280
>(because literally every pure Cleric in both BGs are complete shit)
No, anon, pure Cleric is just a fairly meh class in general that really benefits from multi- or dualling, and running it solo hardly meets any benchmarks. Anomen advances like a pure Cleric with 7 levels of Fighter cheated in and Viconia has powerful magic resistance, so I don't know what *more* could you be looking for in a single-class Cleric.

>>5428293
What?

I didn't mean "shit" as in bad. I meant shit as in an old-woman-voiced Branwen, nigger-elf Voconia, or stomach-turningly-gay-portaited Anomen being my only choices.

>>5428298
absolutely pleb taste

>>5428298
What did you say about my waifu Viconia?

>>5428342
She's shit.
Le evul edgi grimdark-elf waifu XDD
Fucking Reddit-tier garbage.

>>5428346
I'm sure your contrarian opinion will net you a lot of helpful advices on how to mod characters.

There isn't a single NPC mod that doesn't make me want to strangle them. And myself. Preferably both.

That's some kinky shit, actually.

brb, downloading Saerileth again.

>>5428358
It's a bummer, but I can't help but be honest. If someone can't respect that and tell me how to mod, oh well.

>>5428359
I legitimately like Isra. She's a bit on the dull side, but overall decent enough.
I also enjoy Fade. She's weirdly likeable guilty pleasure. She's the batshit insane emo tiefling, but by god the author was trying.

>>5428369
is isra the one companion that speaks in middle-ages english 24/7?

>>5428374
No more than the rest of the companions.
Aside from persistently calling you "my Lord" and having a rather formal way of talking.
Maybe you are thinking about Saerileth. She keeps perstering you with those "thees" and "thous"

so which companions are actually decent?

>>5428359
The slime dude is pretty cool though

The real question is has anyone managed to make soundsets anywhere near as good as Wynne's?

>>5428482
Finch

>>5428482
Kelsey and BG2 Kivan and Xan are inoffensive.

>>5428293
Stalker>Cleric is probably my favorite multiclass for the MC, really solid, no part of it is totally shitty to go through

>>5428739
sorry, dual class, meant to correct that

>>5428739
Also the closest thing you can get to Fighter/Cleric/Thief which lets face it would be totally broken OP and have too much damage potential to rationalize.

>>5428746
>Also the closest thing you can get to Fighter/Cleric/Thief which lets face it would be totally broken OP and have too much damage potential to rationalize.
It wouldn't have been. Clerics aren't the biggest damage potential in the game (very little in terms of offensive spellcasting, plus a blunt weapon restriction until your UAI kicks in late), backstab immunities grow rampant in later parts of the game, and the best spellcasting is on arcanes.

>>5426075
>That's pretty boss.
Beamdog is just a bunch of modders who got lucky

>>5428767
A Kensai>Thief or Assassin>Cleric could be deadlier but they wouldn't get all the buffs and safety nets that keep them in the game defensively. Not to mention F/C/T would just have all the utility covered basically by just holding Spell Breaker wands.

>>5428804
>they wouldn't get all the buffs and safety nets that keep them in the game defensively
All the best defensive self-buffs, especially in an SCS environment, are held by Mages. PfMW, Stoneskin, Imp. Invisibility (/ Shade Door), Spell Immunity, Contingency, Mirror Image, Blur, Spirit Armor, to name a few. And yet, F/M/T or F/M/C isn't considered broken OP, although they are favored as a cookie cutter soloist combo.

>>5428590
Surprisingly, this.

There's a mod NPC somewhere that's a gay racoon man and I cannot for the life of me find it any more

>>5425919
Any new content introduced in EE