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/vr/ - Retro Games


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File: 112 KB, 1280x720, crtmonitor.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5412039 No.5412039 [Reply] [Original]

How come I always see people using CRTs for retro console games on here but not old PC games?

>> No.5412041

PC gamers are pretty casual and have lower standards for these things. They use a number of work arounds to get things functioning in a way that is not accurate but is functional at the end of the day.

>> No.5412048

>>5412039
The PC master race has always been about best quality. They're not the braindead JRPG-playing losers you tend to see around here. They don't think black lines or blur on a screen looks better because muh nostalgia or internet points. PC gamers prefer extremely high refresh rates, resolutions, and are very sensitive to input lag.

>> No.5412052

>>5412048
>are very sensitive to input lag.
wouldn't that be more of a reason to use a CRT

>> No.5412085

>>5412048
Have you never actually tried a PC CRT? Any of the inherit qualities of SD CRT that people like for games don't apply to PC CRTs because they're too sharp and high quality.

>> No.5412096

>>5412052
No.
>>5412085
Yeah I've never tried PC CRT you fucking mongoloid.

>> No.5412125

>>5412096
PCs would of been hell if we were limited to SD CRT TVs back then. 480i absolute shit for reading fine text compared progressive PC CRTs.

>> No.5412128
File: 34 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5412128

>>5412096
obvious bait is obvious

>> No.5412365

>>5412039
Half-life wasn't designed to be displayed on an awful, low resolution crt TV @ 480i, with signal interference as a """feature""". Therefore, the benefits of a CRT for PC gaming are drastically reduced.

>> No.5412381

>>5412096
Is this where I'm supposed to say "zoom zoom zoom"?

>> No.5412384

>>5412365
sorry I couldn't find any good pictures on google images

>> No.5412690

>>5412365
nobody uses a pc crt at 480i. even old pc crts used progressive scan, and many support resolutions that are so much higher than 480

>> No.5412746

>>5412048
>high refresh rates

PC user here, I couldn't give a dick about refresh rate. Some games genuinely look better on lower resolutions.

>> No.5412791

>>5412746
refresh rate isn't the same thing at all as resolution

>> No.5412862

>>5412746
That's an embarrassing post.

>> No.5412957

>>5412746
>I couldn't give a dick about things i don't understand
Because you're dickless as well as retarded? Underage goes without saying.

>> No.5412960

>>5412048
thanks for putting these mentally ill "people" in their place.

>> No.5413235

>>5412039
I still keep a small CRT tucked away for only a very specific few games where the UI assets don't scale properly.

>> No.5413252
File: 51 KB, 276x199, Imagest.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5413252

The biggest CRT I own is an Integraph InterView 28hd96, connected via adapter to my SGI Octane.
It has some problems starting up atm and needs a complete overhaul.

>> No.5413279

>>5412746
God you're dumb.

>> No.5413340

>>5413252
Hi John Carmack

>> No.5413362

>>5413340
Nope, but you can get these things for next to nothing now. Nobody wants these 90 lbs bricks.

>> No.5413475

My secondary monitor is a CRT and it's a godsend for old games, especially 2D ones. Having to blow up 2D images with linear filtering or having to deal with incorrect scaling on DOS games really sucks. CRT also allows for crazy refresh rates. Playing Chocolate DOOM at 160hz just because I can is a blast. Plus you can use whatever arbitrary resolution you want. PC CRTs are great.

>> No.5413476

>>5413252
Fucking liar.

>> No.5413489

>>5412052
I don't think I can think of a single game where input lag is a major factor. It's not even a huge factor for most PC games today.

>> No.5413528

>>5413476
Fucking poorfag. I got mine from corporate e-waste.

>> No.5414038
File: 8 KB, 442x500, brainlet.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5414038

>>5412791
>>5412862
>>5412957
>>5413279
>replying to an obvious false flag

>> No.5414068

>>5413362
Where do you look for them? Searching "CRT monitor" on craigslist only has a couple results in my area.

>> No.5414092

I have a Viewsonic monitor for my old PC. Many PC gamers are probably emu-kids in the first place, or otherwise don't have a gaming setup beyond their standard daily-use PC.

>> No.5414101

>>5414068
Try "computer screen".

>> No.5414106

>>5414092
Based. I found one of these from the mid to late 00s that had barely seen any use but I had to leave it when I moved. Best color I've ever seen on any display.

>> No.5414109

>>5414101
That brings up a bit more, what should I look for to know if it's a good one or not?

>> No.5414119

>>5412052
Unless you've been playing quake1 for 20 years and are competing internationally for cash then I see no reason at all.
They even rent crts for events like qhlan but if you're gonna play stuff like monkey island, fallout, rollercoaster tycoon, doom or singleplayer quake why even bother.

>> No.5414121

>>5413489
>>5414119
Yeah but the other anon's saying it as if that would be a reason to use new monitors over CRTs when CRTs are actually the ones with less input lag

>> No.5414124

>>5414119
I wanted to play Beneath a Steel Sky but it looks like it would look way better on a CRT

>> No.5414154

>>5413528
>dumpster diver
>somehow I'm the poorfag
Post pic with timestamp.

>> No.5414314

>>5414154
Fuck you poorfag, my shit is in storage

>> No.5414325
File: 41 KB, 755x627, i troll you.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5414325

>>5414038

>> No.5414343

>>5412039
The reason is simple. You can configure PC games to not have any issues besides "pixels" in an LCD monitor. But you can't configure console games to not have any issues.

At worst, a PC game will look crisp. At worst, a console game will look extremely blurry.

>> No.5414424

>>5414314
>my shit is in storage
How convenient.

>> No.5414442

>>5414121
>>5412052
A common mistake.
CRTs have 8ms of input lag. My LCD has 9ms, while having a higher resolution and refresh rate. https://www.resetera.com/threads/crts-have-8-3ms-of-input-lag-addressing-a-common-misconception-about-display-latency.40628/

>> No.5414447

>>5414424
Fuck you asshole

>> No.5414448
File: 179 KB, 256x304, EverQuest_Coverart.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5414448

>>5412746
>Some games genuinely look better on lower resolutions.

This is actually true. And for the zoomers who don't know, the reason being is that if you have textures with 32x32 applied to surfaces, the larger resolution makes them look more unappealing. It's why certain games like Everquest got a massive texture revamp in 2001 due to the ever increasing resolution of CRT's at the time.

>> No.5414452

>>5414343
A lot of people just use emulators on CRTs though and you can make them look normal with an LCD too

>> No.5414471

>>5414442
Rubbish.

>> No.5414472

>>5414442
Wtf I have a 1ms 144hz HD monitor I always thought CRTs were faster

>> No.5414496

>>5414452
Yes, but I wager the people who complain about the lack of CRTs are those who play on the original hardware, meaning emulation is out of the question (and thus better quality images).

>> No.5414580

>>5414496
You haven't seen the people recommending using a modded Wii with component to a CRT in almost every thread that asks about emulation?

>> No.5414605

>>5414472
That 1ms you see on most LCD monitors means gtg response time. Response time =/= display lag

>>5414471
Apparently it's true. It takes 8.3ms for a lagless 60hz CRT to draw half a frame.

>> No.5414692

>>5414605
How do you find the display lag then?

>> No.5414697

>>5414605
>Apparently it's true. It takes 8.3ms for a lagless 60hz CRT to draw half a frame.
The frame can be updated as the beam is going, it's sent to the screen as soon as it's received, ie. with literally zero input lag.
>For older analog cathode ray tube (CRT) technology, display lag is extremely low, due to the nature of the technology, which does not have the ability to store image data before display. The picture signal is minimally processed internally, simply for demodulation from a radio-frequency (RF) carrier wave (for televisions), and then splitting into separate signals for the red, green, and blue electron guns, and for timing of the vertical and horizontal sync. Image adjustments typically involve reshaping the signal waveform but without storage, so the image is written to the screen as fast as it is received, with only nanoseconds of delay for the signal to traverse the wiring inside the device from input to the screen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_lag

That's not "input lag" you're talking about at all, that's just "waiting for the next refresh of the monitor 'lag'". That will be added on top of your input lag for LCDs. And that's just for if you're running HDMI compliant games, if you're actually putting an analogue console into a LED tv you will get the 60Hz "lag", then the converter lag, then your own LCD input lag and also your LCD refresh rate "lag".

>> No.5414732

(continued) Also read this please:

>CRT era consoles would draw to the display pixel by pixel line by line. The processing of game logic and input polling can happen while the frame is being drawn. There's a fantastic book about game development in the Atari 2600 days called "Racing the Beam" named for doing as much as possible before the next line started drawing on screen.

https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/6ppfeu/does_crt_actually_have_a_better_response_time/

That is zero input lag period. Nobody said you had to update a whole image at a time. They also go on to discuss just how much jerking around they do with your input lag in emulators and yet someone with no idea who can't afford it comes on saying there's no difference or it's better.

>> No.5414745
File: 4 KB, 340x269, worried kirby in glass bowl.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5414745

>>5414325

>> No.5414760

>>5414605
>Apparently I don't understand things
Indeed

>> No.5415562
File: 1.78 MB, 2320x1740, aero fighters.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5415562

>>5412039
>How come I always see people using CRTs for retro console games on here but not old PC games?
¿qué?

>> No.5415570

>>5414697
Whatever you want to call it, it's the time between the player presses a button and sees the result. Good LCDs are only 1ms worse than CRTs at this, in the worst case scenarios. While having much better performance in other aspects.

>> No.5415624

>>5415562
Tyrian, best DOS-Game ever. Especially the soundtest / music.

>> No.5415631

>>5415624
https://vocaroo.com/i/s03N9UvS6QGZ

>> No.5415984 [DELETED] 

>>5415570
omg how fucking retarded are you? It was already explained to you in-depth how full of shit this post is. You are also adding more shit by coming up with this "between the time you press a button" stuff which is completely ignoring controller input lag, which is significant in emulation which is what you are talking about.

Your "worst case scenario" is some ridiculous contrived best possible case situation where you're not even talking about the display. Of course a games console running at 60Hz with 30fps is going to have less reaction time than a PC game running at 120fps on a 120Hz display. That's not input lag at all idiot. 60 fps PC games would be the same and have the additional input lag of the LCD which is not present in CRTs.

Notice I say consoles running at 60Hz not CRTs, because many consumer grade CRTs ran at 100Hz-200Hz or more, which people only found out about because they sometimes couldn't run lightgun games properly on them - ie. it's not the CRT that's causing any delay, it's the output signal of the console.

You also say that LCDs have many other advantages over CRTs, well why don't you google and see there are also lots of advantages CRTs have over LCDs then.

>> No.5415987

>>5415570
omg how fucking retarded are you? It was already explained to you in-depth how full of shit this post is. You are also adding more shit by coming up with this "between the time you press a button" stuff which is completely ignoring controller input lag, which is significant in emulation which is what you are talking about.

Your "worst case scenario" is some ridiculous contrived best possible case situation where you're not even talking about the display. Of course a games console running at 60Hz with 30fps is going to have less reaction time than a PC game running at 120fps on a 120Hz display. That's not display input lag at all idiot. 60 fps PC games would be the same and have the additional input lag of the LCD which is not present in CRTs.

Notice I say consoles running at 60Hz not CRTs, because many consumer grade CRTs ran at 100Hz-200Hz or more, which people only found out about because they sometimes couldn't run lightgun games properly on them - ie. it's not the CRT that's causing any delay, it's the output signal of the console.

You also say that LCDs have many other advantages over CRTs, well why don't you google and see there are also lots of advantages CRTs have over LCDs then.

>> No.5417170

>>5415987
You realize you're trying to explain this to a brain damaged tween downie, right?

>> No.5417189

>>5415987
LCDs have many advantages over CRTs, as you stated, but you won't mention the advantages that CRTs have because they are so minimal it's not even a competition. Mentioning them would prove me right, so instead you say "google and see" like an angry manchild, which you no doubt are, sitting in a room with a CRT and Nintendo figurines.

>> No.5417302 [DELETED] 

>>5417189
Not minimal at tall - better display contrast, more accurate colours, picture doesn't change on viewing angle and as we established zero display lag. Those are why some studios still use them. If you just pick the first results then a lot of those are from when the industry was desperately trying to push LCDs. Now please fuck off, I'm not benefiting from this conversation. Why don't you just ask people for information instead of saying shit you know is wrong and being like "if you don't tell me then it's because you're wrong".

>> No.5417308

>>5417189
Not minimal at all - better display contrast, more accurate colours, picture doesn't change on viewing angle and as we established zero display lag. Those are why some studios still use them. If you just pick the first results then a lot of those are from when the industry was desperately trying to push LCDs. Now please fuck off, I'm not benefiting from this conversation and your continual baiting for information by stating false things is a scummy way to learn stuff.

>> No.5417310

>>5417308
I forgot multiple native resolutions.

>> No.5417314

Here: http://www.displaymate.com/crtvslcd.html

>> No.5417912

>>5412039
Some people actually do and even run hardware and OS’s for games of the time. Plenty of people make 3.1/95/98 rigs specifically to play the games on what would have been the top-end hardware of the time.

>> No.5417979

>>5415562
That's exactly the same CRT I use, it's supposed to be particularly good or something?
Sadly it has the VGA cable attached so I can't use the Dreamcast with it, there's any way to solve that?
Also, I don't know why but I can't get perfect geometry with it, it always looks slightly fucked in one way or another.

>> No.5417995
File: 12 KB, 278x181, studio.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5417995

>>5417308
Yeah, CRTs have more accurate colors. That's why Hollywood color grading studios use CRTs when grading films. Oh wait, they don't, and you're a fucking retard who needs to learn some basics before coming back here

>> No.5418015

>>5412039
it makes no sense to play bdoom in 4:3

>> No.5418023

>>5414343
This is not true. It can be actually more complex for DOS games to work well on LCD's as often the used refresh rates are not supported. This can cause slowdown as the adapter is forced to use 60hz and games that use the refresh rate for timing will slow down or tear. Lotus will slow down, Mortal Kombat 2 will have tearing, Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo will stutter. Canon Fodder will give you an "out of range" if you're unlucky.

And CRT's for PC's are hard to find IMHO, they were dumped at an amazing rate when LCD's became affordable.

>> No.5418029

>>5417308
>inb4 CRTs have more accurate colors for games
You can always change the hue