/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5407462
That's not a CRT, you're trying to trick people into thinking that's not just a shitty PC filter. It's really obvious zoom zoom.

>>5407462
wtf is this? why are the scanlines bigger than everything else?

>>5407464
Nope. It’s from a real BVM.

>>5407467
Don’t worry, you can rub Vaseline on the screen if it’s too much visual fidelity for you.

a high dot pitch makes it easier, yes, how long did it take you to figure that one out albert rothstein?

I have a professional monitor and an OSSC separately. After using the professional monitor with high quality cables, I don't think it makes a massive impact on the way it looks to play it on a CRT vs a modern TV with good scaling.

>>5407478
Known forever. A good portion of this board doesn’t, though.

>>5407485
Precisely this.

>>5407489
congrats now circle exactly 1 pixel

>>5407492
Have three. On the house, Famicom.

>>5407502

What am I looking at?

>>5407513
Think it’s a seagull.

>>5407462
Uhm sweetie, those are not pixels, they're periodic changes in voltage occurring inside three electron guns which are being shot towards a phosphor layer at incredible hihg speed.

>>5407502
gj, now count how many are here

>>5407485
you fell for the meme, congrats.

>>5407552
can you post a picture of the full screen? I'm having trouble imagining why someone would want this look

>>5407462
You can definitely make out pixels on any non-shit CRT, even consumer ones. What makes the CRT better is that the colors blend together more nicely and the image doesn't have to be artificially upscaled so it looks a lot cleaner. But anyone who says you can't see any pixels or any aliasing on a CRT is either in denial, has only ever seen absolute garbage CRTs, or simply hasn't used a CRT recently enough to remember how it actually looked.

>>5407462
right

>>5407462
>>5407473
Nice convergence issues bro, are you going to fix that with your big dick service menu?

>>5407552
Is pretending to be a moron how you get your kicks? You couldn’t even do that upscaled on an LCD - it’s a single-color background.

>>5407578
Oh look, a consumer set poorfag has appeared.

>>5407584

The way developers something something

>CRTs don't have a native resolutio-

>>5407462
>babies can't straw ma-

>>5407462
>>5407473
Looks like 240p120 on any old cheap PC CRT monitor. Hope you did not spend a lot of money on that BVM.

>you can totally see them bro, you just gotta slam your shitface against the monitor haha
Great thread.

>>5407723
Every tv can only use sd resolutions dumbo

>>5407578
Damn, you’re jealous. The convergence is fine.

>>5408093
That is not true. lurk moar

>shit on lcds
>spend hundreds of dollars to make game look like it's being played on an lcd

I will never understand PVMemesters.

Wait, do people really think you can't see pixels on a crt?

Man I noticed the fucking pixels when I was 11 and playing on my Grandma's 1970's CRT

>>5408101
Yes it's true retard every TV that uses horizontal refresh rate of 15kHz can only use 240p/480i in NTSC or 280p/576i in PAL lines of resolution.
But if it comes to PC CRT monitors and other CRT monitors that work with 31kHz refresh rate, statement that "CRTs don't have native resolution"
is true because the are only limited by the quality of their res.

>>5408128
>Every tv can only use sd resolutions
you didn't say anything about 15khz, you lying nigger. You said "every tv".

>>5408128
>lcds dont have native res because theoretically we could manufacture smaller pixels
See how dumb you sound?

can we stop this stupid mem-

>>5407462
this entire board's content is people taking pictures of monitors with digital cameras and saying see it looks x or y even though the stupid camera doesn't convey at all what the damn thing looks like in person.

>>5407462
HAHAHA
>FAKE SCAMLINES

>>5407478

which game is this?

>>5407473
>BVM
BVMs and PVMs aren't made for gaming. That's why the image looks so disgustingly sharp.

I honestly prefer the look of composite for nes.

>>5409372
that rainbow shit is just from my camera btw

>>5408297
>"camera can't see magic from CRTs" pseudo-science retard

>>5407462
>falling for the BVM meme
how do you feel knowing there's a redditor out there somewhere spending the very money you exchanged for that?

>>5409105
>so disgustingly sharp
Kek. Vaseline fetishists are too cute.

>>5409402
the picture is taken from /r/crtgaming, it's not even op's

>>5407516
Dead pixels

>>5407462
I'll defend CRTs all day but man, visible scanlines are just ugly as fuck.

>>5409372
>composite
my ultimate nigger

>>5407462
Jesus anon, your scanlines look disgusting.

>>5409383
if the crt is displaying a contrast ratio higher than the camera's digital range then this is literally scientifically true

>>5409372
Same

>>5409372
This does look damn nice. If you're using a phone, swipe right and go into pro mode, change your ISO to the point you don't get interference and also use manual focus. That will get rid of the banding.

>>5409105
>disgustingly sharp
retard

>>5409372
Composite is the only way to go with NES since it's the only way to get the true color palette.

>>5407462
I don't see any pixel.
Shit looks smooth as fuck while being sharp as a tank unlike upscaled integer bullshit.

>>5409372
I'd be okay with composite if it weren't for dot crawl. It looks so bad.

>>5409561
oh yeah that's definitely what's going on. must be a digital camera from 1934 and a CRT from 2053. great post man

>>5407485
I've been saying this for years. I get the love for the grainy coarse-pitched consumer CRT TV look, but the high-end professional RGB monitors look pretty much the same as a decent modern HD panel with an OSSC.

>>5408294
>2019 and people still using this stupid candlejack me-

>>5410274
If they made 12" OLEDs i'm sure /vr/ pvmsters would consider them.

>>5407485
I own a 20L5 and Just use my ossc hooked up to a CRT computer monitor instead. my 20L5 has geometry issues and shit so using a hdmi to vga adapter with a crt computer monitor is the way to go imo. Forget the PVMeme.

>>5409509
its fucking fine. I have a PVM and I still use my top loading famicom on and old shitty composite Mitsubishi TV.

>>5408112
PVMs are the 240SX of televisions. The 240sx was a total fucking piece of shit of a car that only became relevant in motorsports because of how abundant it /was/, and they all got slammed into walls or trees because 'dude you can find them for 5 bucks if you look hard enough'. Actually that's not an apt comparison at all, if anything PVMs are the Crown Victoria for cars; overly abundant in commercial fields but uncommon for civilian use, and everyone who has one taxes the shit out of them because they know what they got.

>>5407473
What game is this very annoyed looking wizard from?

>>5410612
Dude bro do you even belong on this board???

>>5410612
The Gimmick.

>>5410632
Nice Wallstreet Kid reference.

>>5409405
>>5410229
>>5407473
>>5407462
If you want sharp as fuck pixels, you might as well play on a LCD niggers.
Old games were DESIGNED to be played on RF in a consumer CRT. They look better and more life-like when they're blurry. Even 3D games benefit from this.

>>5410246
>he lacks even the most rudimentary understanding of dynamic range in pictorial art

>>5410558
Can you post details of this image I just came to?

>>5407723
The holes in the shadow mask aren't pixels.

>>5411156
then why do they look exactly like pixels?

>>5411817
Because LCD dots and their subpixel components were based upon the same concept of color CRT devices. Only except on those, you can have a "pixel" be as long as one channel stripe, or two whole RGB cells.

>>5411817
Phosphor dots are similar in function to the subpixels in LCDs and OLEDs, but they're not individually addressable. That's why CRTs are always a bit blurry: they can't be controlled as precisely.

>>5411827
>or two whole RGB cells

Technically you can also do this on an LCD, due to internal rescaling of resolutions lower than the native one, but it hammers the point that pixels can mean many things. OP is dumb because he thinks pixels translate to "blocky bitmap".

>>5411831
Don’t call me dumb, faggot.

>>5409563
Thx anon ill try that that next time

>>5410238
You can make big improvements regarding dot crawl if you use a display with a good comb filter built into it. Later consumer Trinitron TVs had them.

>>5409537
He's playing a game with a vertical resolution of ~240 pixels on a display with nearly a thousand vertical lines of resolution, of course they do.

>>5411895
What did he mean by this?

>>5411828
They can be controlled with shaders. There's even a configurable variable in CRT Royale called "phosphors"

>>5412001
>There's even a configurable variable in CRT Royale called "phosphors"
You can emulate it, but you can never faithfully replicate it. "scanlines" are a side effect of a specific display technology, not a feature. There is no way to duplicate it faithfully on an LCD. You can claim that it is, and that is fine. Different CRTs have wildly different scan line size depending on a number of variables. You can't emulate it perfectly just like you can't emulate a thick piece of glass between you and the source of the light. It will never be more than a close approximation, and no amount of made up generation-z software will ever change that fact.

>>5412058
Yeah, you can replicate it faithfully. You have to oversample a shitload and then downsample back to your screen, and if your screen is 4k that helps. "It" is always different depending on the screen, but you can customize the effect to get whatever you're going for and in my opinion get an even better "CRT look" than any CRTs provide.

>>5411895

>>5412071
Read his post again, he's going to be a pedantic ass because he says "close approximation", which is technically correct. You can't replicate CRTs 100% on a LCD panel because there's no vacuum tube or electron gun tech in an LCD panel. It's like people who argue about not being able to replicate overdrive/distortion on an electric guitar using DSPs and electronics. Yes, technically you can't replicate it 100% because microchips do not have vacuum tubes inside. But if the design is good enough you can get damn close. It's a really retarded argument.

>>5411893
I'm so glad I still have my KV-27FV300 television in amazing condition. I babied the hell out of it.

>>5412116
>>5412058
Ok with that train of thought, you can't replicate anything, ever, TECHNICALLY. In fact, PVMs are not exact replications of the factory specifications they're trying to manufacture due to tiny discrepancies in machine equipment and human error on the assembly line. No two TVs have the exact same atoms. So a "close approximation" to your ideal CRT is all you can get, even purchasing CRTs.

>>5412246
You are 100% predictable. When proven incorrect, you decide to go off on some extreme tangent involving atoms. Go back to /v/ where retardation like yours is welcomed.

>>5412116
Using super high quality DSP you can get better/more detailed overdrive than bad or even ok hardware. The same is true for CRTs. Using a super high quality shader with oversampling and a nice graphics card, you can achieve better than most CRTs and arguably better than even the best CRT due to customization.

>>5412260
So I'm right and you have nothing to say back, other than more fallacies, got it. Talk about predictable..

>>5412263
>So I'm right
You are well within your rights to claim that the rubbish that is LCD shaders attempting to emulate the look of a non-specific CRT technology looks accurate. It is just shitty emulation, and only emphasizes the fact that you are just a hipster/poser. Anyone who used a CRT unironically can look right at it and call it for what it is. Your opinion is valid, but your interpretation is incorrect. If it looks good to you, great. That does not make it accurate. Pretty please with cherries on top, go fuck off back to /v/.

>>5411991
>>5412082
BVMs have a higher dot pitch, because they are capable of drawing more lines, that is, they have a higher TVL specification. The NES outputs 240p (give or take some depending on the game). The greater the ratio of TVL to vertical picture resolution, the more pronounced the scanlines will be.

>>5412436
t.

>>5410353
i'm for this. an low latency, oled, 4:3 display with (optional) analog hookups is the future of retro displays. It would be cheap to make as well. Fuck, throw a pi in there for the zoom zooms to enjoy themselves on.

>>5412246
>product is made with the same tech, design processes, etc. and creates the same image because its built to X standard
>but its not the same because its not the exact same atoms

2/10 for making me reply, faggot.

>>5412573
That's your logic, that an equal or better image is still not "faithful replication" if not exactly the same. If we're being intelligent, we would say emulating the CRT look (using the best shader and a high power computer) is faithful replication. It's also an improvement.

Every time I zoom in, I can hear the hum, feel the magnetic static electricity, and smell whatever that weird smell was.

>>5412525
Excellent argument, newfriend.

>>5407462
Not a consumer CRT TV

Do scanlines fuck with your eyes as much as they do with mine? When I play for a while, I seemingly will get like an afterimage on my retina or somehing. It's like the scanlines cause burn in to my eyes. Sometimes I will see them for 2 days straight after playing but it's really only noticeable in dimly light situation or almost complete darkness. Shit kind of freaks me out when it happens.

>>5414270
Flickering messes me up more. Not the scanlines.

>>5414190
lol.

>>5412279
>Anyone who used a CRT unironically can look right at it and call it for what it is
Yeah, we can. You can’t. Stop spewing your autism in every thread about shaders.