/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5405554
>Proof that better hardware doesn't mean anything.
Debatable. The SMS isn't really better than the NES and actually at a disadvantage in some categories particularly because it can't flip sprites in hardware so you have to waste memory with extra sprite patterns for each direction a character is facing in.

>>5405567
Look at any comparison video on YouTube. The sms versions are always much more detailed and the animation is always better.

The NES palette was a joke in comparison.

I prefer the NES for it's games and gameplay but the facts are the games looked better.

>>5405592

Are those numbers correct for the Sega Master System colour pallete? I was under the impression that the machine can only display 31 colours maximum. 16 colours for the background layer and 15 colours for the sprite layer, with one colour reserved for transparency. Also, pretty sure the Master System has a limit of 64colours max for its colour pallete. The Game Gear is basically the same hardware as the Master System, but it has a 9bit colour pallete which which can generate a palette of 4096 colours. But can still only display 1 colours on screen at once.

>>5405554
>How did it live so long in Brazil?
Brazil is a third world country that doesn't allow modern electronics in. Basically North Korea tier. They have to make do with the Sega Master System because it was the only system made in Brazil by trained monkeys.

>>5405581
Colors aren't the only thing that matters unless you're an Amigafag. The Master System did have more colors and freedom of attribute placement than the NES but it had many many disadvantages as well including the sprite thing I mentioned, crap sound, and it couldn't be expanded with mappers like the NES.

>>5405592
>>5405703
I’m no scientist but I’m certain there are tons of errors on that chart.

>>5405592
>>5405703
>SMS
>up to 32 colors at one time from a total palette of 64 colors.
This picture also misses the 16kb of VRAM the SMS has. Still, comparing the Z80 to the 6502 isn't exactly a direct comparison between clock speeds. While the SMS's Z80 is clocked somewhat more than twice the speed of the NES's and 7800's 6502 chips, the Z80 instructions take anywhere from 4-23 cycles depending on the instruction given, and the 6502's are anywhere from 2-8 cycles. For example, any AND operation on the 6502 will take anywhere from 3-7 cycles depending on how fancy it is. The same AND operations on the Z80 will take 4-19 cycles.

>>5405759
While the NES only has 2k of onboard VRAM, more can be added through cartridges, also the graphics data is in a separate cartridge ROM that maps directly into video memory. On the Master System, all tile and sprite data is stored in the main cartridge ROM with the code and it has to be copied into VRAM on the fly, which is slow.

It does also seem that the typical Master System game was made on a lower budget than the typical NES game and cartridge ROMs were smaller, with the exception of Phantasy Star.

>>5405763
>While the NES only has 2k of onboard VRAM, more can be added through cartridges, also the graphics data is in a separate cartridge ROM that maps directly into video memory. On the Master System, all tile and sprite data is stored in the main cartridge ROM with the code and it has to be copied into VRAM on the fly, which is slow

Sega use to advertise their Master System cartridges by Megabit sizes. I use to have a Master System with a lot of game catridges for it, which I sold years ago and somewhat regret. Sega would mark their cartridges as "The Mega Cartridge" (1Mb/ 125KB), the "Two Mega Cartridge" (2Mb/ 256KB) and the biggest one was Phantasy Star, which was marked as a Four Mega Cartridge (4Mb/ 512KB). Phantasy Star was also noteworthy for having a battery. The first model Master System also has the card reader. The Sega card was designed for the Sega SG1000 in Japan. The Master System was really an upgrade on the SG1000 with backwards compatibility. No the card reader was there for the SG1000, but it also could be used for budgetware Master System games as well. The Sega card can only hold about 32KB. This was dropped from the Sega Master System II.

But the biggest NES cartridges were Dragon Warrior IV (Dragon Quest IV) at 8Mb(1MB) and Kirby's Adventure is 6Mb (786KB) and also has additional RAM in the cartridge as well as MM3. But those came out in 1990 and 1993, while Phantasy Star was a 1987 release.

Sega was really focusing on the Mega Drive/ Genesis by 1989-1990. They were advertising Strider as a 8Mega Power (1MB carts).

>>5405767
>It does also seem that the typical Master System game was made on a lower budget than the typical NES game and cartridge ROMs were smaller, with the exception of Phantasy Star.

Sega use to advertise their Master System cartridges by Megabit sizes. I use to have a Master System with a lot of game catridges for it, which I sold years ago and somewhat regret. Sega would mark their cartridges as "The Mega Cartridge" (1Mb/ 125KB), the "Two Mega Cartridge" (2Mb/ 256KB) and the biggest one was Phantasy Star, which was marked as a Four Mega Cartridge (4Mb/ 512KB). Phantasy Star was also noteworthy for having a battery. The first model Master System also has the card reader. The Sega card was designed for the Sega SG1000 in Japan. The Master System was really an upgrade on the SG1000 with backwards compatibility. No the card reader was there for the SG1000, but it also could be used for budgetware Master System games as well. The Sega card can only hold about 32KB. This was dropped from the Sega Master System II.

But the biggest NES cartridges were Dragon Warrior IV (Dragon Quest IV) at 8Mb(1MB) and Kirby's Adventure is 6Mb (786KB) and also has additional RAM in the cartridge as well as MM3. But those came out in 1990 and 1993, while Phantasy Star was a 1987 release.

Sega was really focusing on the Mega Drive/ Genesis by 1989-1990. They were advertising Strider as a 8Mega Power (1MB carts).

>>5405567
Instead of sprite flipping, it has tile flipping. You may notice that a lot of Master System games have symmetrical background graphics to cut down on the amount of tiles needed.

>>5405860
>But the biggest NES cartridges were Dragon Warrior IV (Dragon Quest IV) at 8Mb(1MB)
Stop with this meme already. DQ4/DW4 wasn't 1MB. That was an overdump. It's half a MB, which makes it far from the largest NES game, and about the same size as Phantasy Star.

Also forgot to mention that it has only two palettes for the sprites and background while the NES has four.

The biggest licensed NES games were Kirby (768k) and Metal Slader Glory (1MB).

Are there any good, playable games for this thing besides Phantasy Star?

>>5405714
>and it couldn't be expanded with mappers like the NES
Master System carts do technically have mappers but they're just there to bank the ROMs and they can't be used to expand the video subsystem. It also can support external sound chips but like the NES this feature unfortunately never made it out of Japan.

The controllers suck too, although you can just use Genesis ones instead (a few games like Montezuma's Revenge use nonstandard ways of reading the controller and these won't work with that).

>>5405876
>Stop with this meme already. DQ4/DW4 wasn't 1MB. That was an overdump. It's half a MB, which makes it far from the largest NES game, and about the same size as Phantasy Star.

I didn't even know it was a meme. I just looked at the Dragon Warrior IV ROM and it was 1MB.

>>5405880
>The biggest licensed NES games were Kirby (768k) and Metal Slader Glory (1MB).

I knew Kirby was one of the biggest NES ROM's. Never heard of Metal Slader Glory.

Also, as far as audio goes, the Sega Master System does have an FM module that was released in Japan only. Which makes it a moot point. But many Master System games do support the FM synth adapter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4rGMcM8Kkg

But I won;t deny that the 6502 audio chip in the NES was superior to the PSG in the Sega Master System. There were some good compositions on the Master System Texas Instruments audio chip. But the NES audio has more diverse range of sounds.

>>5405896
>Never heard of Metal Slader Glory
It's a weeb interactive storybook.

A lot of good games such as Bubble Bobble and the 8-bit Sonics were PAL region only, although almost all PAL Master System games work on NTSC machines.

>>5405903
>A lot of good games such as Bubble Bobble and
Stopped reading there.

>playing arcade ports when MAME exists
>2019

>>5405581
NES games often sounded better though.

>>5405896
It uses a clone of the TMS9919 with a longer duty cycle so sounds are at a 6% lower pitch than the real thing, which is good because the 9919 sounds like ear rape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmzPC-kLQec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdbYy6uKeoY

The Master System Bubble Bobble looks a bit nicer than the NES and maybe doesn't flicker as much because it uses char graphics for the bubbles instead of sprites, but the worse sound is immediately noticeable.

334 Master System games versus 1600 NES/Famicom games

>>5405942
But forgetting that it wasn't around as long as the NES, it started in 1986 and ended in 1992 while the Famicom/NES ran from 1983 until 1994.

>>5405903
>A lot of good games such as Bubble Bobble and the 8-bit Sonics were PAL region only, although almost all PAL Master System games work on NTSC machines.

The Master System seemed to live a long life in the UK and the EU. There were games being released for it in those regions up to 1993. Though for some reason the system just seemed to love on in Brazil for who knows how many years after? Plus there were many games for the NA market that were developed for the Game Gear that got ported to the SMS in those regions as well. In all the SMS has a library of 345 games, which is about half of the NES. Not to bad all things considering.


- Choplifter (One of my favorite versions)
- Golden Axe Warrior
- Wonder Boy in Monster World
- Sonic the Hedgehog 1 (it was released for the US Master System and is stupidly overpriced thanks to Sonic fandom)
- Zillion
- Zillion II (original is better)
- Alex Kidd in Shinobi World (I enjoyed it)
- Fantasy Zone II: The Tears of Opa-Opa
- Castle of Illusion Starring Mickey Mouse (it's different from the Genesis game)
- Rambo: First Blood Part II
- Phantasy Star
- Hang-On (arcade port, but it was good for its day)

I'm mostly just familiar with the US line-up, which is about.. less than half of the Sega Master System library. As I said before, a lot of the later Master System games were released on the Game Gear in the US. With cropped screens, but richer colour palletes.

>>5405767
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ruBuzQ2yuI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOj2mYkxpo0

A lot of its games look like Euro home computer shovelware. Seriously, I've never seen a NES game that looked this amateurish.

>>5405984
>Flintstones
>Tiertex
No surprise. This game literally is a port of a shit UK computer game.

>>5405984
The Alf game was made by a US dev Nexa Software and judging by the graphics, it looks like they were trying to emulate an EGA PC look.

>>5405896
>I just looked at the Dragon Warrior IV ROM and it was 1MB.
You have the overdump, verify your ROMs.
Dragon Warrior 4:
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=1276
Dragon Quest 4:
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=1526
It's just a 512k ROM chip and 2 8k RAM chips, with the MMC1. The NES release has a CIC, but that's it. It's a 512k ROM. There are three official US NES releases larger than that, and many of the same size.

>>5405984
>I've never seen a NES game that looked this amateurish.

There's quite a bit of shit that graced the NES that I would call amateurish. But the NES has a huge library of games, so that should come as no surprise.

Not one of the greatest of games, but Ghostbusters NES:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy4yKNqKVos

Ghostbusters Master System:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anDvwNllVbo

The Master System version was ported by Sega themselves. While Activision did the NES game.

>>5405981
Also got a nice port of Space Harrier. There's a Famicom Space Harrier too--it plays a little smoother.

>>5405993
>While Activision did the NES game
No they didn't. The game was developed by Bits Laboratory which was one of those crap-tier Japanese studios like Micronics consisting of first year college students.

>>5405994
I notice in general that NES games have smoother animation and better framerates. Dunno if it was the architecture or the higher overall budgets of games just meant the programming was better.

>>5405997
Like someone else said, the Z80 has longer execution times for instructions than the 6502 so that could be a reason for it.

>>5405984
>Seriously, I've never seen a NES game that looked this amateurish

A Week of Garfield says hi.

>>5405984
Wow, Fred really looks like a brute caveman in this version. I was fearing for Pebbles the whole time.

Renegade NES:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flfni9wyytI

Renegade SMS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZZbbKnbT-w

Oddly the Sega Master System portw as released in 1993, while the NES/ FC one was released in 1987. The Master System port really does look great.

Though, on the other hand...

Double Dragon SMS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdwWu-i4WyE

NES Double Dragon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMJXZm21faY

The Master System version is much more faithful to the arcade game and it has two player mode. But it has some massive flicker and slowdown compared to the NES game. Both games were released in 1988. But the Master System version was programmed by Sega.

Though as far as 2D brawlers go, the Master System also has a good port of Streets of Rage, which was released in Europe and the UK only:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHby7-Kah7w

Which is not a port of the Game Gear Streets of Rage. The Mega Drive game seems to have all the Genesis levels and characters while the Game Gear game is missing three stages and one character. Sprites were also made smaller in the GameGear game to fit more characters on screen. Granted, who cares, since anyone can play the definitive Genesis/ MD version. But still neat for the hardware.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvyXWWdBWR0&t=547s

>>5406019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4TC3pJY328

This is the C64 version. The Master System port they couldn't even be bothered to scroll the screen during the driving section, it's just switch screen.

Fuck. You. Tiertex.

>>5406021
>Oddly the Sega Master System portw as released in 1993, while the NES/ FC one was released in 1987. The Master System port really does look great.

The sprites look awful compared with the awesomeness of the NES Renegade's sprites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aIq81Q6eKY

Even the C64 Renegade has great-looking sprites--I love how they look like a pack of British chavs from the alleys of Liverpool. ;)

>>5406021
Master System DD is a straight port of the arcade and not a reimagining like the NES, though the music is worse (it did support FM sound in Japan)

The NES's biggest strength was its expandability. Those later mapper chips like MMC3, MMC5, VRC4, Sunsoft, etc allowed stuff that wasn't possible with the basic console and they allowed it to remain viable well into the 16-bit era. The Master System wasn't expandable, you were limited to the equivalent of a NES with no mappers or MMC1 at most.

>>5406035
>The sprites look awful compared with the awesomeness of the NES Renegade's sprites.

I can;t deny that the NES sprites that this anime/ expressive look to them. But I like the look of the SMS game. It plays well too. The sprite look good in the C64 game too.

>>5405587
fried excrement vs boiled excrement

>>5405885
Psychic world

>>5406056
>2010
Almost a decade ago. We have Flash carts now.

In general if you want to do homebrew development the Genesis is better because it's far more capable hardware and the consoles are also much more abundant than Master Systems are.

>>5406056
>I would tend to think that most homebrew programmers who dabble with the Z80 prefer to do so on the Coleovision rather than a newer machine like the SMS (or even the Gameboy for that matter).

I thought the Speccy and Amstrad were the go-to Z80 machines for that sort of thing.

>>5406064
>In general if you want to do homebrew development the Genesis is better because it's far more capable hardware and the consoles are also much more abundant than Master Systems are.

The Genesis/ Mega Drive has the Sega Master System hardware built into it and is backwards compatible as well. There are after market Master System to Mega Drive cartridge, and the EverDrive can run SMS ROMs as well. Plus, the Game Gear can play Master System games with a catridge convertor. A modified GameGear with a TV out is another option.

Master Systems are also RF only if I remember correctly, they don't have composite like the toaster NES.

You don't have to worry about bank-switching on the Genesis either while it's necessary for any Master System game >32k, although homebrew projects probably won't get that big anyway.

>>5406036
>(it did support FM sound in

I actually like how this one sounds with the FM module:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWlnsW3ywsI

>>5406083
Yeah in case you think you're going to port Kirby's Adventure to the Master System.

>>5406090
What about that guy who was working on SMB3 for the Genesis? He said the biggest bitch is figuring out the (extremely intricate) game physics.

>>5405981
>Game Gear that got ported to the SMS

Castle of Illusion is an interesting case on the Game Gear. It uses the exact same ROM as the SMS game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn1bHWfS7kA

Sega just dumped the Master System ROM onto a Game Gear cartridge without modifying the game at all. If you play the Game Gear version on a modified Game Gear with a TV out, it will display at the full TV resolution and look 100% identical to the SMS game. While other GameGear games will have a black border around them, kind of like playing Game Boy games on a TV through the SGB adapter.

>>5406059
I really enjoyed Psychic World and am happy that somebody else in the world did, too.

I guess its nicest feature is that each tile can be a unique color set unlike the NES where every four tiles share a palette.

>>5406079
V.1 Master System has RGB output over SCART

>>5406089
I don't know about the sound effects but overall the presentation is much better than on the NES: it's more colorful, the controls seem closer to the arcade version and because of the smaller sprites there's a bigger view for the player. Of all games that got ported to both the NES and the Master System this is arguably the one I would get.

>>5405567
It's actually surprising how little the Master System improves on the NES outside of more colors, while the NES was a quantum leap over any previous console. The whole thing was an anemic effort on Sega's part and they got the sales and market share they deserved.

>>5406021
>The Master System version is much more faithful to the arcade game and it has two player mode. But it has some massive flicker and slowdown compared to the NES game. Both games were released in 1988. But the Master System version was programmed by Sega.
The Master System Double Dragon is running at 60 fps while the NES one is something like 30 fps.

>>5406159
>It's actually surprising how little the Master System improves on the NES outside of more colors

The Master System wasn't really a new system. It is an upgrade on the Sega SG1000, which was released in 1983. The SG1000 has the same Z80 and PSG audio chip. But the Master System (Mark III) in Japan updates the display processor and increases the memory from 1KB to 8KB with an additional 16KB of video RAM. The SG1000 couldn't compete with the FC in Japan. So Sega upgraded it to be comparable.

>>5406173
To make a long story short, a Colecovision with more colors, more RAM, and hardware tile flipping. That's basically it.

>>5406174
And, well, more sprites. Master System has 64 sprites with 8 per line just like the NES while the Colecovision/SG-1000 had 32 sprites with 4 per line.

>>5406109
The added RAM is helpful. The 2k the NES has is pretty limiting and leads to situations like unfair enemy spawns. Also SMB only scrolls right because there wasn't enough memory to keep tabs of how many bricks Mario destroyed.

>>5406173
>with an additional 16KB of video RAM

All TMS9918-based systems had 16k of VRAM, it was actually a standard part of the setup.

>>5406178
Nintendo have always been infamously cheap with RAM. For example, the GBA was to have 32k until they learned that the PSP would have 4MB, so they bumped it up to 256k.

>>5405554
>How did it live so long in Brazil?
First of all, I'd say around 10% of Brazil's population can afford current gen consoles. Around 20 million people wich you divide between elders, adults, teens and children.

The thing is, after it wasn't the current generation anymore it started to be targeted for lil kids. Nowadays little kid want a tablet and installs over a hundred games in it and play it all without understanding shit. After the master system was a thing of the past the president of tec toy himself claimed this very thing: it's target audience is little kid's first videogame console. An easy to play videogame because it just has 2 buttons. It's a console targeted for 6-10 years old. Even the mega drive is being marketed towards children for some decades now. Tec Toy also sells tablets with the same purpose in mind.

By the time of its release it sold around 150 thousand consoles in 1989, when inflation was over 1000% and by that time asian and american Mega Drives were already circulating in brazil's soil either from Paraguay or from the USA itself because, like I said earlier, the 10% of the population who can afford current gen consoles are rich, bitch. They're travelling abroad, buying stuff in miami, visiting paris, own houses in the litoral and shit like that. The gap between the rich and higher middle class to lower middle class and poor faggots is VERY wide.
At the time the SMS was the shit poor children would either have a 2600 or famiclones. SNES was way more popular than Master System and Mega Drive because it was released here officially by Nintendo in 1993, which was after president Collor was impeached and we were walking towards the Real currency. Also, around 50% of the population doesn't care about videogames. They're in such a budget that even drinking coca cola every day is out of question so videogames are not really a part of their reality.
Fun Fact: the official NES was released after the SNES in brazil.

>>5405554
>How did it live so long in Brazil?
poorfags

>>5406172
>The Master System Double Dragon is running at 60 fps while the NES one is something like 30 fps.

I don;t know if Sega ported Double Dragon in house, or if they outsourced it to another developer? But they did a pretty good job. I agree that it is pretty faithful to the arcade game. But it still has a few issues with collision, and two player mode can get quite flickery with a lot of slowdown. I had a copy of this game for the Master System.

And speaking of good ports, U quite liked Ghouls N' Ghosts on the Master System:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFHcsEiFOH4

Though I found this version to be much harder than the Genesis game. The Genesis / MD port is a better game overall.

I also liked Ninja Gaiden on the Master System as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWo-Lm0FQZo

This is a totally different game from the NES titles. Not as good as those ones either, but still a decent game in its own right.

The NES Double Dragon is a buggy mess and also lacks co-op two player mode because it was one of the first games Technos released for the system and the programmers were extremely green.

>>5406172
>The Master System Double Dragon is running at 60 fps while the NES one is something like 30 fps.

I don't know if Sega ported Double Dragon in house, or if they outsourced it to another developer? But they did a pretty good job. I agree that it is pretty faithful to the arcade game. But it still has a few issues with collision, and two player mode can get quite flickery with a lot of slowdown. I had a copy of this game for the Master System.

And speaking of good ports, I quite liked Ghouls N' Ghosts on the Master System:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFHcsEiFOH4 [Embed]

Though I found this version to be much harder than the Genesis game. The Genesis / MD port is a better game overall.

I also liked Ninja Gaiden on the Master System as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWo-Lm0FQZo [Embed]

This is a totally different game from the NES titles. Not as good as those ones either, but still a decent game in its own right.

>>5407264
>poorfags
Bullshit, Master System was expensive as fuck here. And only have official games sold, while it was ultra easy to buy pirate (and cheaper) games for Genesis and SNES.

The master system had plenty of decent games, guys. Yes, it wasn't as good as the NES, no doubt about that but what you faggots aren't taking in consideration is the context of those times. What existed before the NES/Master System? Atari. Pretty much atari. Mainly the 2600, which I do like. Now imagine you're a kid who grow up playing an atari 2600 and suddenly you see a master system screen. That sums up my personal experience.
One day I was playing the 2600 and a friend invited me to his house. He asked me if I liked videogames I said yes and there it was. The master system. All those colors on your screen it was the most mindblowing experience I've ever had videogame related. Not even the start of 3d can be compared to it. Seeing alex kidd in the screen was like playing with a saturday morning cartoon itself.

>>5405994
The port of space harrier was spot on. I dunno about the NES but if you beat the sms version you'd probably beat the arcade version too.

>>5407694
Must suck to not only be a poorfag but a stupid one as well. And an underage who doesn't know about daddys toys.

Every port of Double Dragon is crap except the two Sega ones and the Genesis DD is still less than it could have been because they were limited to a small ROM for cost reasons.

>>5407754
I've never seen the Genesis port. What about.

>>5407765
It was made by Acclaim under the Ballistix label and is unlicensed. They had a small budget so the game uses only a 512k ROM and the controls are a bit dodgy and many sprite frames are missing since they couldn't fit them in. It really needed a 1MB ROM.

Actually even the arcade DD is a flawed game in many ways, DD2 improves on it a lot.

master system sold well in brazil because it was the cheapest monkey toy available.

>>5407771
I take it they probably also did not have the arcade source code if this was a US development team.

>>5405592
They just got away with so many lies in the 80s, didn't they?
>30 sprites per line
>the games all looked identical to 2600/5200

>>5407846
The entire point of the Atari 7800 was to move millions of sprites around so it could do single screen arcade games effortlessly. Atari never had the imagination to forsee Mario or Zelda happening.

>>5405592
The Master System is 256x192 not 259x192 and it has eight sprites per line same as the NES.

>>5406525
>10%
Forçou, comunistinha de merda.

The sadly hilarious part is that Sega's ports of their own arcade games on the SG-1000 are much crappier than Coleco's ports on the Colecovision considering the latter didn't have access to the original arcade source code.

>>5405860
The Master System could play SG-1000 games but the chipset is not completely identical to the original TMS9918/19 and games will have darker colors and lower-pitched sound.

>>5408240
Ele tá certo. Confira os dados.

>the NES palette is actually quite terrible as far as game palettes go. The visible color merges are blocky and uneven, there isn't a good yellow, the gray scale is terrible, and there are ten color entries wasted on black.
>ten color entries wasted on black.
Why?

>>5409235
>10 colors that are unique to the console but the exact same to the player
I can think of a few uses.

>>5409258
What are they?

>>5405554
>needing to go to your console to just pause the game

The SMS will always be a joke on this alone.

>>5409273
Well, for starters you could use them for hit detection on the background layer if using a black background, or use individual pixels within a background for specific uses without standing out to the player, or invisible effects or effects you want to keep hidden from the player.

As a rough example, making a graphical adventure game like Deja Vu with an area with a black background but only a few areas should be interact-able. Instead of having to keep track of exact areas, you could just paint an area with a different black and then tell the console to send the player to scene X when they click on it. Would look flat black to the player, but the console will know which is which. Granted, this would mean having to draw the same tile twice on the ROM, but with one using the other black.

It would be even more useful if the NES had more than 1 background layer, but it can still be used for some tricks.

>>5409336
>Instead of having to keep track of exact areas
Why is this less desirable?

Are we going longevity as in manufacturing of the console itself or longevity as in continued new releases for the console? If it's the former, then yeah: SMS is no doubt the longest living considering it's still being produced. If by new releases, wouldn't NG be top contender? We got ours in 1990 and they were still making games for it in the mid 00s, I think. Are new games still coming out for SMS?

>>5409425
Well, coding to recognize a specific tile seems a hell of a lot simpler than trying to specify an area of the screen. One is just checking to see what properties are on the tile the user is touching, the other involves keeping track of exactly what is being drawn on screen when. I'd rather code a game where the game reacts when the user clicks on tile 42 as opposed to coding a game where I need to count every scanline on the screen and have the game react at specific points to get the same effect.

>>5409458
>Are we going longevity as in manufacturing of the console itself or longevity as in continued new releases for the console? If it's the former, then yeah: SMS is no doubt the longest living considering it's still being produced. If by new releases, wouldn't NG be top contender? We got ours in 1990 and they were still making games for it in the mid 00s, I think. Are new games still coming out for SMS?

The last game that was published by Sega for the Sega Master System was a Speedy Gonzales game, which was released in 1995 in the EU regions and Brazil, which was nothing more than a port of a Game Gear game. TecToy published their last Sega Master System game in Brazil in 1998. Which was Mickey's Ultimate Challenge / Also unsurprisingly another port of a Game Gear game. The second to last game that was published by TecToy was Street Fighter II, which was released in 1997.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H7bR7wzBo4

TecToy released Master System hardware beyond 1998. But that was about it.

>>5405554
>How did it live so long in Brazil? The thing easily has the longest dev support out of any console in history.

because literally all of the games were 1st party, and they could siphon literally everything that came out on game gear and quickly port it over

>>5405885
Mickey Mouse in Land of Illusion
Alex Kidd in Shinobi World

>>5405981
>Fantasy Zone II: The Tears of Opa-Opa

why the fuck is this so much harder and longer than the first one?

>>5406073
>I thought the Speccy and Amstrad were the go-to Z80 machines for that sort of thing.

the homebrew communities for these computers is absolutely fucking nuts

dozens if not hundreds of games a year, many are better than commercial releases from back in the day

>>5407754
>Every port of Double Dragon is crap

PC Engine double dragon ii is considered the definitive home version

it's a remake of nes 2

>>5410481
>PC Engine double dragon ii is considered the definitive home version

There was a Double Dragon 2 released on the Japanese mega Drive as well. It's an OK port, but suffers from the horrible control scheme of the arcade game. I have no idea why the Double Dragon 2 arcade game had that weird context sensitive control scheme where the punch and kick buttons would flip depending on what direction the character was facing in. Come to think of it, the Genesis/ Mega Drive has like five Double Dragon games. DD1, DD2, DD3, Double Dragon BattleToads and DDV.

>>5410468
>because literally all of the games were 1st party, and they could siphon literally everything that came out on game gear and quickly port it over


That's really how it was for the Master System in the EU and UK as well. A lot of games were just Game Gear ports. The differences were just resolutions and colour pallets.

For example, Robocop vs Terminator Game Gear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srNtEGRT7eg

Master System:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evmTHPEPmPU

Alien 3 Game Gear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdrPKcXjpDY

Master System:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhM8twrIKz8

Disney's Aladdin Game Gear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZuoXKeflk0

Disney's Aladdin Master System:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0SYgOZIINs

Jurassic Park Game Gear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEuecakCxKg

Master System
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39DPFa-djqU

Which is not so bad, since you could treat the GameGear like a portable Master System. Though there are a few interesting cases where the game can be based on each other but have different level design. Like Batman Returns Game Gear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vob7jybaD4&t=143s

Batman Returns Master System:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bjiENrHYxQ

Both games use the same game engine/ sprites, but have different level design. Both are fun games too.

>>5405984
>I've never seen a NES game that looked this amateurish
select any nes game produced by americans. ANY. they're all trash and half assed ports.

>>5405710
What the fuck are you talking about?

t. brazilian

>>5410583
>select any nes game produced by americans. ANY. they're all trash and half assed ports.
I don't think there were all that many of these. Tengen and Acclaim were about it.

>>5410518
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0IcqoI0d78

The NES Batman Returns is easily a much better game. The version for the Master System looks like a C64 game and the limited sound versus the NES is really noticeable.

>>5410595
Acclaim were also just a publisher, they didn't develop anything themselves. As for US developers, Microprose and LucasArts did their NES games in-house but I can't think of many others.

The Master System was a victim of its younger brother's success more than anything.
Considering the Master System was capable of a wonderful game like Phantasy Star, its sad that many of the console's games were pretty rough and basic. But the Disney games show that those experienced with the hardware could make some quality titles.
It still got a ton of slightly cut-down Genesis ports, usually only in the graphics department though. It helps that many Genesis games barely even used three buttons optimally.
It ended up finding a niche as a budget device in the end, which, considering the Genesis could have killed it off entirely like other consoles have done to their predecessors is quite nice to see actually.

>>5410657
The Master System was a victim of me-too syndrome. It was a half-assed answer to the NES after it became obvious that the SG-1000 wasn't gonna cut it.

>>5410659
Oh yeah. Of course its a cash-in machine too. But the hardware itself was capable of a lot more than it actually did in practice for most games.
The Genesis, (and Game Gear since its success further added to MS ports) kind of robbed it of its late-game library. So it never really had much of an identity after its first couple of years.

The SG-1000 was me-too as well. It was literally a Colecovision clone. Stop and think that the Genesis was the only Sega console ever that had anyone with a brain designing it and wasn't me-too or reacting to something someone else did.

Like someone else said, the real issue with the Master System was not being expandable. Developers ran into the ceiling of what could be done with it early on while the NES got new, advanced mapper chips to make it possible to do games that you could not do with the basic onboard console hardware.

The Colecovision was actually a clone of the Vtech Creativision which came out a year earlier and which was sold only in PAL regions, except the Creativision had a 6502 rather than a Z80. Though the Creativision clearly looks like a product of the 70s while the Colecovision seems more like it was designed with 80s aesthetics in mind.

>>5410595
Oh dear, I hope he's not trying to suggest that LJN were actually a developer and didn't merely publish games made by shit Japanese bedroom coder studios like Atlus.

>>5405885
Final Bubble Bobble is the only good home console version of BB

>>5410264
So Neo Geo is a longer living console in terms of new releases and SMS in terms of consoles still in production. Got it.