/vr/ - Retro Games

How is this even a question? Of course you can. A dozen people have done it already.

should i cop a used 3ds off ebay? my gaming pc died, and i havent had a console since ps1 so it could be cool to catch up on shit like mario, zelda, dragon quest, castlevania, etc. or should i just get a switch if i wanna nintendo in 2019, can i pirate games on a 3ds?

>>5369180
I honestly don't understand the continuing appeal of pre-Quake FPS technology. It's like people who enjoy text adventures in the year 2019; Yes, I get it. There's always going to be "that guy" in the crowd... But it's Doom-level tech. I lived through that era and I'm glad that we're in the era where you can walk under the bridge that you just walked over without some fancy-schmancy engine tricks or cheats.

>>5369321
Because there's tens of thousands of Doomy games being made from scratch in 2019
It's a fun novelty with imaginative execution that's fun to play for a few hours

>>5369321
>anons who post on the retro board enjoy playing retro games
baffling, isn't it?

>>5369321
>I honestly don't understand the continuing appeal of pre-Quake FPS technology. It's like people who enjoy text adventures in the year 2019; Yes, I get it. There's always going to be "that guy" in the crowd... But it's Doom-level tech. I lived through that era and I'm glad that we're in the era where you can walk under the bridge that you just walked over without some fancy-schmancy engine tricks or cheats.


IDTech1 and the Build Engine are the two most prominent sector based rendering engines that I can think of. Because they are not completely 3D they do feature quirks in them that make them feel different from the polygon rendering engines like IDTech2 and Unreal. Plus the sprite look still has a lot of appeal. ''The Tools out there for the DOOM Engine should make it relatively easy to MOD a new game.

>>5369321
>an ITS THE CURRENT YEAR post was actually made on a retro board

>>5369180
>iD Tech
Can we go back to just calling it the Doom engine followed by the Quake engines? This revisionist rubbish is confusing.

>>5369180
Yes, it's been done, Hacx isn't even a good example, look at Action Doom 2 and Adventures Of Square.

>>5369321
1: Why are you even on this board?
2: GzDoom has had support for 3D floors for a really long-ass while, as have other sourceports, like Edge (but nobody uses Edge).

>>5369650
I agree.

>>5369650
>This revisionist rubbish is confusing.

Ot's not really revisionist, though iDSoftware made that iDTech naming scheme official around the development of iDTech 4? Just so they would have more distinction between engine names.And now everyone uses the IDTech naming scheme. It is confusing, because I still think of the Wolfenstein 3D engine as IDTech 1. But it is just called the Wolf3D engine.

I was thinking to myself what a modern Wolf3D engine game would look like. I mean, Rise of the Triad has the most advanced implantation of the Wolf 3D engine, as Tom Hall and team at the Developers of Incredible Power modified the hell out their version of the Wolf3D engine by trying to compete with the Doom engine. But you can still see the limited raycasting engine with 90degree walls that are all at the same height. Developers used sprites for platforms to give the game vertical element. This game started as Wolf 2 at Apogee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce8ky8LmySQ

>>5369650
>This revisionist rubbish is confusing.

It's not really revisionist, though iDSoftware made that iDTech naming scheme official around the development of iDTech 4? Just so they would have more distinction between engine names. And now everyone uses the IDTech naming scheme. It is confusing, because I still think of the Wolfenstein 3D engine as IDTech 1. But it is just called the Wolf3D engine.

I was thinking to myself what a modern Wolf3D engine game would look like. I mean, Rise of the Triad has the most advanced implantation of the Wolf 3D engine, as Tom Hall and team at the Developers of Incredible Power modified the hell out their version of the Wolf3D engine by trying to compete with the Doom engine. But you can still see the limited raycasting engine with 90degree walls that are all at the same height. Developers used sprites for platforms to give the game vertical element. This game started as Wolf 2 at Apogee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce8ky8LmySQ [Embed]

>>5369321
obligatory

>>5369513
This guy right here ^

>>5369671
>Yes, it's been done, Hacx isn't even a good example, look at Action Doom 2 and Adventures Of Square.

Rekkr is also still a bit new and fairly awesome for what feels like Viking Doom.

Why was Hacx so bad again? Was it level/encounter design? I remember playing the first few levels when I was younger and was real confused that I was getting bored.

>>5369697
>It's not really revisionist, though iDSoftware made that iDTech naming scheme official around the development of iDTech 4?

The Rage debut trailer was the first time iD Software officially started using the iDTech numbering convention. I think it is where they used the iDTech5 logo. Before that, I kinda remember people calling iD game engines stuff like the "Doom 3 engine", or "the Quake III engine".

>>5369697 (You)
>It's not really revisionist, though iDSoftware made that iDTech naming scheme official around the development of iDTech 4?

The Rage debut trailer was the first time iD Software officially started using the iDTech numbering convention. I think it is where they used the iDTech5 logo first appeared. Before that, I kinda remember people calling iD game engines stuff like the "Doom 3 engine", or "the Quake III engine".

>>5369697
>It's not really revisionist, though iDSoftware made that iDTech naming scheme official around the development of iDTech 4?

The Rage debut trailer was the first time iD Software officially started using the iDTech numbering convention. I think it is where they used the iDTech5 logo first appeared. Before that, I kinda remember people calling iD game engines stuff like the "Doom 3 engine", or "the Quake III engine". But Id Software then retconned their own engine names.

>>5369792
Hacx was average in everything aside from new graphics, compared to other wads avalable at the time, and asked for money to boot, besides Quake and Duke were already out.

>>5369180
Yes, you can make a game. But in order to get noticed outside of Doom community you'd actually have to do proper marketing. And even then most of your playerbase will be from Doom community, and are likely to just pirate it since what you are offering would be just a glorified mod of which there are quite a lot.

>>5369321
Limitations bring forth clever tricks, ingenuity and interesting ideas.
Modern unimaginative "sudo-retro" shlock is a testament to what happens when you don't have any limitations.

Doom Engine is the first of its kind to allow truly unique architecture and level geometry to be build without using pre-fabs (like System Shock and Descent did). It sits just right on the border of "limited" to be able to roughly create what you want, without becoming too complex to deal with (like Duke 3D).

Also modding scene keeps it very much alive, and will keep for ages to come thanks to aforementioned simplicity of both engine and the tools, unparallelled by pretty much anything.

>>5369321
>>>/v/

>>5369321
cringe

>>5369792
The levels are really boring. Really, the only thing Hacx has going for it some cool graphics here and there, which is why people always rip them for their Doom wads.

>>5369180
I've seen someone make a Donkey Kong Country fangame out of it.

>>5369321
Shoo, back to /v/, shoo, SHOO.

>>5369321
Nice bait zoomer.

>>5369321
Piss off m8

Doom is literally the most overrated retro fps.

>>5369321
The State of Zoomers: Muh Grafiks Edition

T. OP, and post number 447550000 on /v/

also
>I lived through that era

yeah bullshit

>>5370889
Just because you love shit like Corridor 7

>>5370960
no just quake, unreal, duke 3d, half life, blood, tribes, jedi knight.

>>5370025
>>5370060
>>5370715
>>5370880
>>5370884
>>5370921
you all newfags got baited and dont even smoke crack

making doom levels is still fun because it's enough complexity to let you make big impressive looking bits of architecture but not any more complex than that. a "good looking" doom level can't possibly trick you with special effects and shaders and RTX ENABLED and whatever. it has to come by its aesthetics honestly, and simply be architecturally pleasing to look at.

>>5371108
This looks bad though, square stuff, no shading, random texturing, and those stairs are a big laugh, like >look how much details I can add on a stair wow my doom engine peen just got bigger

>>5369321
> It's like people who enjoy text adventures in the year 2019
I don't follow. Text Adventures are their own genre, the advancement of tech has absolutely nothing to do with them.

Secondly, I don't see how something new makes the old one invalid or less fun.

>>5369709
They don’t make movies like that anymore.

>>5371108
Quake mods looks a lot better.

>>5371137
His isn't a good example.

>>5369180
Honestly, the most impressive aspect of Quake / Doom was the engine they ran on. Don't mistake my words, the games were groundbreaking and open the gates for a whole genre, but it is very difficult to accept both games as nothing more than tech demos that represent the foundation needed for innovation. Within a year Doom was already outclassed in the FPS space by games built from the ground up to do natively what Doom achieved through trickery. By the time Quake released it was outdated, and this was even more apparent when Quake 2 launched. They are not bad games, and anyone who assumes as much is a fool.

Ashes is basically a whole new game. There's tonnes of gzdoom tc's that are basically their own game. Now, how much you can call gzdoom id tech 1 is up for debate.

>>5372721
Ashes is extra nice because the author released a version modified so you could play it like a Vanilla Doom map or with another gameplay mod if you want.

>>5372760
Yeah playing through the ashes maps with hideous destructor was fucking tense, need to do the same with dead man walking now that the sanitized version is out.

>>5372681
>By the time Quake released it was outdated

Quake was doing a lot of firsts when it was released. It was the first to use light maps, and the Quake engine used a BSP system that allowed it to be scalable across different hardware configurations. The Quake engine was designed to run relatively fast on slower hardware. Quake didn't originally support any of the proprietary API drivers for 3DFX, PowerVR or ViRGE cards, though. So it was designed for software rending. Carmack didn't want to support any of those API's because of the mess of dealing with each one individually.

Instead ID Software ported OpenGL over to MS-DOS/ Windows 9x during the development Quake II and then back ported it to Quake 1. The driver as called MiniGL and it caused graphics card manufacturers to add OpenGL support to their software drivers just to support Quake. The Khronos group was founded to maintain OpenGL on the x86 DOS/Win9x platform.

>>5372681
>Don't mistake my words, the games were groundbreaking and open the gates for a whole genre, but it is very difficult to accept both games as nothing more than tech demos that represent the foundation needed for innovation.
>By the time Quake released it was outdated,

Your brain is full of mud. What I would give to be able to smack people who call Quake a "tech demo". Quake is a full and great, polished game. It's not the best of all time, Goldeneye and Half Life were soon released and were more advanced and complicated.

But to call it a "tech demo".... how fucking stupid are you? The "tech" wasn't even that good, the atmosphere and monsters were incredibly good. Are you just one zoomer that just made up this bullshit and repeatedly say it? Get the fuck out of my face, out of 4chan, out of the internet and out of the world.

>>5373001
While I don't consider Quake a tech demo, I have to interject on this part:
>Quake is a full and great, polished game
It's a great game, but it's not quite full and polished, it's actually quite rough and with a few parts unfinished. There were supposed to be more actual bosses (one which was a dragon, who would snatch away the rune and escape to the skybox), rather than you just fighting some vores and shamblers again, but since they were becoming pressed for time, it never happened.

It had a peculiar development history of lots of delaying, yet also rushing, and LOTS of compromises which didn't really make everyone at ID fully happy. In spite of all that though, this absolute mess of a development cycle turned out a pretty damn good shooter which still holds up very well to this day, something I think says a lot about the people who developed it, considering how similarly bad development cycles have turned out some notably terrible games.

The expansion packs were sort of put together as not just a filler between new games, but as also to sort of fill in a bit of what Quake lacked, adding some more real bossfights, as well as getting some use out of texture sets and assets which otherwise didn't make it in the base game.

>>5373016
>While I don't consider Quake a tech demo


I wouldn't call Quake a tech demo, but it was used as a benchmark for many years after its released. Especially as an OpenGL benchmark.

>>5373001
Quake was literally rushed and unfinished with a compromised vision
I suggest you read Masters of Doom

>>5372681
>Within a year Doom was already outclassed in the FPS space by games built from the ground up to do natively what Doom achieved through trickery.

List all the first person shooters released prior to December 10, 1994 that "outclass" Doom in gameplay and technology. I'll wait.

>>5373032
>It's a great game, but it's not quite full and polished, it's actually quite rough and with a few parts unfinished. There were supposed to be more actual bosses (one which was a dragon, who would snatch away the rune and escape to the skybox), rather than you just fighting some vores and shamblers again, but since they were becoming pressed for time, it never happened
The only thing I do get is how it felt like there should be more bosses in the original game. Other than that consider the question if this game wasn't Quake would you say it was unfinished? It was long, well thought out and has a lot of substance.
>>5373032
"compromised vision" or not it turned out fine. The name of that book has always bugged me, they made Doom, they weren't creators of it.

>>5373032
>It's a great game, but it's not quite full and polished, it's actually quite rough and with a few parts unfinished. There were supposed to be more actual bosses (one which was a dragon, who would snatch away the rune and escape to the skybox), rather than you just fighting some vores and shamblers again, but since they were becoming pressed for time, it never happened
The only thing I do get is how it felt like there should be more bosses in the original game. Other than that consider the question if this game wasn't Quake would you say it was unfinished? It was long, well thought out and has a lot of substance.
>>5373032
Books on the history of videogames are known for having lack of accuracy. "compromised vision" or not the game turned out fine. (fwiw the name of that book has always bugged me, they were the creators Doom, they weren't masters of it.)

>>5373098
>Books on the history of videogames are known for having lack of accuracy
That really depends on what you're looking at.

>>5369180
Use Build Engine 2

>>5373132
What coding language does it use? I have it installed and I've been tinkering with the map editor. I just don't get how to use Evaldraw/Build 2 though.

>>5373148
i think the same scripting language of Evaldraw

>>5369180
own coded engine is the best engine

>>5369321
every FPS game follows the exact same Doom formula. Doom is as fun as the new games if not better.

meanwhile text adventures went obsolete after Sierra figured out you can draw a guy on the screen instead of describing him.

>>5373151
any tutorials for evaldraw?

>>5373184
using evaldraw is a waste of time, trust me.

>>5373186
but i wanna make a gaem on de build too angine ancle dade

verona è proprio una città di merda.

>>5372976
>Quake was doing a lot of firsts when it was released
I never refuted this point. Doom was an absolutely necessary, and fantastic starting point for the genre to expand.
>So it was designed for software rending. Carmack didn't want to support any of those API's because of the mess of dealing with each one individually.
This is precisely the point. They took a bet that optimisation and software rendering would be the way forward, but they were dead wrong as computer hardware became a very marketable consumer market. This is ultimately what lead to Quake and Doom feeling outdated very quickly
>>5373001
Not even going to dignify this brainlet with a proper response. Off yourself my man.
>>5373069
>List all the first person shooters released prior to December 10, 1994 that "outclass" Doom in gameplay and technology. I'll wait.
I submit that it would be difficult for me to demonstrate a game that had on-par, or superior gameplay to Doom, but that is due to the subjectivity of the matter and nothing objective. In terms of technical excellence; Cyclones and Depth Dwellers do come to mind as exceptional standouts. I feel as if it is noot to even attempt to put forth any titles as you will just reject any merit they have for the sake of the argument.

>doom
>good
t. larping zoomers

>>5373576
>This is ultimately what lead to Quake and Doom feeling outdated very quickly

The only game that made Quake look dated was Quake II. Otherwise, I wouldn't say that it was dated upon release. Quake pioneered OpenGL on home PC, it had some of the best only gaming and supported online play through Quakeworld. What was better?

>>5369650
>>5369671
It's not confusing if you aren't some fucking autist always trying to flaunt their retro gamer cred.

>>5373662
>choppy non interlaced animation
Ah yes sure thing Quake totally didn't look like shit months after release. Zoom zoom zoooooooom zooooomer

the only reason why you think quake aged well is because you're playing opengl ports with upscaling out the ass, most kiddies in the 90s played in 240p software mode at 15 fps

>>5373760
>Ah yes sure thing Quake totally didn't look like shit months after release. Zoom zoom zoooooooom zooooomer

I was like 15 >>5373764
>the only reason why you think quake aged well is because you're playing opengl ports with upscaling out the ass, most kiddies in the 90s played in 240p software mode at 15 fps
when Quake 1 was released.

No, I think it aged well because it has aged well. Back in 1997 I could get close to 60fps at 800x600 on a Riva128 card. I remember being quite impressed with it. Though Quake II technically looked better, but I still prefer the aesthetic of the original Quake.

>>5373760
>Ah yes sure thing Quake totally didn't look like shit months after release. Zoom zoom zoooooooom zooooomer

I was like 15 when Quake 1 was released.

>>5373764
>the only reason why you think quake aged well is because you're playing opengl ports with upscaling out the ass, most kiddies in the 90s played in 240p software mode at 15 fps


No, I think it aged well because it has aged well. Back in 1997 I could get close to 60fps at 800x600 on a Riva128 card. I remember being quite impressed with it. Though Quake II technically looked better, but I still prefer the aesthetic of the original Quake.

>>5373737
>le audism meme :DDD

Leave.

>>5373946
>le tranny meme
No matter what gender you think you are, you’re still a douchebag

>>5373662
quake 2 was kind of shit, and unreal (at least graphics wise) was a vast improvement over both

>>5373946
You're only proving me right Sevenshit.

>>5373764
I thought it was good then too.
I still use GLQuake.

>>5373186
Is it really that bad? The demos it came with made it look pretty neat

>>5372681
>by the time Quake released it was outdated

Uh...bullshit

>>5373180
doom plays way differently than any modern game wtf are you talking about

>>5373576
on what fucking planet is Depth Dwellers a good game

>>5373576
>Depth Dwellers... come to mind as exceptional standout

>>5375072
Exactly. He says he read it in a book. He read it in a fucking book.

It really irritates me when people make bullshit like that up and they put it out as some sort of "did you know this surprising fact" trivia for others. Then others think they know it also, to the point where the person saying the actual reality gets argued down. It makes them feel special, like they are above the standard basic knowledge that everyone knows. It's a fucken joke. Quake was groundbreaking and a complete game.

"but it says in Masters of Doom it was rushed near the end and more bosses were planned"

WHO GIVES A SHIT???? Compared to any standard games it was both technologically AND aesthetically AND gameplay wise blowing away the competition.

>>5374610
>quake 2 was kind of shit, and unreal (at least graphics wise) was a vast improvement over both

I'm not going to debate that. The Unreal Engine looked fantastic for its release in 1998. Half-Life was released that year as well, and used a modified version of the Quake 1 engine called GoldSRC. Which added coloured lighting, skeletal animation . an updated scripting engine, and I believe it also launched with DirectX, OpenGL and Software rendering modes. Gabe Newell ported Doom to DirectX while he was working at Microsoft, and he added DirectX to the Q1 engine. Half-Life 1 looked alright for the time. But not on the same level as Unreal.

>>5372681
I think Carmack or Romero said shortly after Q1 that they wanted the best tech possible over the best gameplay.

The tech side was right, even if technology moves fast in that field. Technically, there was nothing like it on consumer-grade hardware 1996.

>>5375330
*in 1996

>>5375195
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cYekAShxRQ
What's wrong with it?

>>5375336
this is some sub-wolfenstein 3D shit man

>>5375463
It is?

>>5375512
Yes. How about you tell us what looks good about it if all you're going to do is respond with "Is it? what's bad about this?" to a game with horrific level design, shooting, music, sound, and graphics

>>5375336
>extremely weak music
>weak sound
>mostly weak graphics
>weak weapons
>secrets are marked, thus not actually secrets

>>5375463
>>5375530
>>5375598
I have fond memories playing it because I had not much else at the time.

>>5375648
Gah, gee, man. I feel bad for you. I wish I could send you a copy of Doom and Rise Of The Triad back through time.

>this thread
>ZOOMER ZOOM ZOOM ZOOMITY UR A ZOOMER REPORTED TO ZOOMER POLICE T ZOOMER ZOOMERS ZOOMING ZOOMERS

400 iq discussion

>>5375994
You are part of the shitshow now son. Enjoy the ride.

>>5375994
Not every post requires a dignified reply.

>>5375994
only zoomers like doom in the first place. its dated garbage.

>>5376175
Why are you here again? Forgot your medicine?

>>5376208
trying too hard there, zoomer.

>>5376210
I'm from gen-x, kiddo

>>5375598
The gameplay looks more fun than wolf3d to me, really. There are projectiles to dodge and such.

>>5375994
>comes to 4chan expecting intelligence
But why? Why would you do that?

unreal engine was also designed for software rendering in mind

>>5376443
I'll give you that there's more variety in that sense, but I find Wolfenstein 3D is overall much more exciting to play, the graphics, music, and premise, is just better.

>>5376986
Full potential of that engine only showed with hardware acceleration, especially multi-pass texturing for detail textures.

>>5376175
>zoomers
>liking "dated garbage"

huh

>>5369180
>is it possible you could
I could

>>5370994
>half life

>>5373184
http://advsys.net/ken/evaltut/evaldraw_tut.htm

I don't know how you're supposed to make a standalone game or whatever using Build 2 tho. I mean I guess you can with command batches but it would be better if the source was released under license so you could have total control over what is presented to the user.

>>5375283
>Half-Life 1 looked alright for the time. But not on the same level as Unreal.
Depends!
Please remember how few games there were at that time. And most went for a scifi, fantasy or horror theme. Halflife was located in our world (invaded by scifi but still). By that time there were very few games that did that. it looked great because it was neither a dark pond of blood nor a colourfull rainbow spaceship.

A bit like duke3d, the 'good looks' of HL arn't based in technical aspects, but by great design choices.

Yes Unreal had the better tools, but they were not used well.

>>5369321
I think part of the appeal is that even I could do it.

I don't have the know-how to create a new 3-D game out of a new 3-D engine, but if I was motivated and had the time, I could learn to create my own Doom mod with my own 2-D sprites.

>>5369469

>>5373180
>>5375176
Doom was one of the last shooters where at the end of the day, how you shot mattered more than your actual skill. Placing your ammo on the right enemies, and making the right moves was more important than accuracy, and the best levels felt that way, like puzzles to solve rather than to just shoot your way through.

I keep saying this, but it's my problem with Doom 2016 that demons will often straight up run away from you rather than blocking you, which was one of the core tenants of the original doom's design was that enemies were obstacles. It drastically changes the feel of the game, in a way that doesn't feel like doom to me when I can just run around enemies.

>>5374803
>>5373982
>>5373946
Overused or not, you always look better when you use more descriptive words than autist. It's like the "on crack" of online discussion.
Remember when obsessive was used as often as autist? I do.

>>5373946
Did it hit close to home or what?

>>5369180
The answer to your question is yes...this is a Doom 2 mod, technically, but it's its own game.

>>5378976
Total Chaos looks good, but it runs on engine that is totally choking and crumbling under all that pressure. Exactly same thing realised on UE3 would run at least five times better, and looking better to boot.
Not to mention being far easier to actually make since you won't have to make so many work arounds to things native to the engine.

Even Darkplaces would do better than GZDoom at this kind of thing.

>>5379164
I have to agree. It's impressive that he's put in all this work, but he could indeed have achieved the same thing easier with another engine.

ZDoom does have the "Z" because it is for zoomers?

Just joking.

If I were to make wolf3d/depth dwellers/Thor's hammer trilogy alike game in 2019 - what would be your advise for gameplay?

Fate of /agdg/ depends on you.

>>5379257
1) Don't
2) do NOT

>>5379257
>If I were to make wolf3d
stop

>>5379257
HD remake of Depth Dwellers please

>>5379257
There's plenty of that shit flying around from clueless "I wanna ride the redro dick" wannabe indie "devs".
Every time they make a retro shooters they get a shitty primitive wolf-clone. Like that one Warlock for example.

Only modders with actual experience of Doom/Quake/Duke mapping can do decent stuff as showcased by Dusk, Amid Evil and Ion Maiden.

>>5379310
There are even complete templates for this so you only have to insert your art and maps. Another 99 cents game on Steam by the Ukrainian FPS mafia.

>>5379310
I wouldn't mind the Wolfenstein style boxiness if they didn't say it was like Doom.

>>5378825
Cringe

>>5378949
Put your trip back on Sevenshit you autistic little tranny god I wanna suck your tiny weewee.

>>5379310
Based.
Fuck Prajeet Whorelock

>>5379310
>ion maiden

I'd like it if - yet again - the EDuke32 developers weren't next-level pricks.

They charge over 21 fucking dollars for a Demo Campaign. Why don't they treat it like Shareware? Why not have the first chapter be free?

>>5379923
I will buy the finished game. Until then I pirated the "demo". If they want to see real cash from me, they better deliver.

>>5379257
Don't listen to /vr/, they're all suck.

You got to really think timelessly. You're going to have some grognards come up and say OH MY DOOM, YA GOTTA FOLLOW DOOM but you really don't. What you need to do is LEARN from Doom. Understand Doom outside of its timeline

I don't usually ask people to understand media from outside its time but I think in this post-Hotline Miami world we need to put an end to the idea of games being "retro" and more of that being a kind of minimalistic style. Video games would benefit from a new classification instead of clinging to genres versus timeframe

>>5372681
A "tech demo" is something like Ken Silverman's BUILD demo program. Something that is not released to the public, but used to demonstrate technology. Doom & Quake are full games that have great gameplay on top of great engines.

>>5379923
Because buying the demo also buys the full game, you just get it early access..

>>5376229
sure
>>5377412
they're just overcompensating by pretending to like garbage.

>>5379310
>Dusk
Cringy unity shovelware
>Amid Evil
Slow to start firing weapons and generic bad map design
>Ion Maiden
Even Shadow warrior shareware is better. Technical glitches on ultrawide displays.

E.t.c.

>>5381070
An early access game has a glitch on niche resolutions. Wow. Clearly it's complete fucking garbage.

>>5381070
>what is reading comprehension

I said "decent". I didn't say "good", did I?
Compared to Warlock even Dusk is a fucking masterpiece.
And then Warlock is good compared to the rest of the primitive wolfen-hipsteretro FPS

>>5379923
For quite a while now I've been following the "death of an author" principle. Any piece of media should be viewed independently from people who made it, on its own merits. Makes life and entertainment much more enjoyable that way.

>>5380138
The problem is hardly anyone wants to learn from Doom.
It's a problem with many "retro-inspired" games. Instead of looking for what made people like the old game, how those elements worked in-depth to achieve the effect, and how they all combined together to get the experience people liked, wannabe-developers look on the surface and learn only of the outward appearance.
Hardly any of them knows of the principles Romero established for mapping.
Even if they were not always followed by Ptersen and Hall, they were still present in game and were the reason its levels were as good as they were compared to everything else that existed at the time.
They play through Doom and think that's enough. They see a complex labyrinthian level and think that any labyrinthan level they make would be just as good because "how hard can that be, to throw together some rooms and corridors". The results are obvious.

Quite recent example of that is Yooka-Laylee. It copied outward features of a retro collectathon without understanding of how it's supposed to work, of the collectible trails and what they meant for exploration and progression - the cornerstone of a collectathon (among many other things). And thus it crumbled and fell since its cornerstone was not made up to specs and was not strong enough to stand on.

>>5375512
It doesn't even have floor height variations. Looks shit m8.

>>5381346
That's not exactly what Death Of The Author is, but that's still not a bad mindset to have.

>>5380285
Fuck you Zoomshit

>>5382042

>>5381070
I could call your weeaboo ass a retarded niggerfaggot, but I will refrain from doing so. Good day and may have GOD mercy on your poor soul.

>>5380230
That's kinda scummy. If I buy the demo and want the full game, but they don't deliver, I'm McFucked.

>>5382061
t overcompensating zoomer

>doom is not the best fps
>doombabbies: reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>5382940
Doom is best FPS framework.
Doom usermaps are best FPS.

>>5371108
Sunder's visuals are okay, but it relied mostly on sectors, with texture usage not particularly that remarkable for the most part. I would have used an Image from Ancient Aliens, or BTSX, personally, as they have a lot more thought put into their texture usage, and aren't just spamming sectors for the sake of detailing.

>>5375336
I legitimately don't understand how this could be considered better than doom.

>>5369321
You can go to the multiplex to see the latest big budget blockbuster but you can also enjoy some nerd's low budget basement movie making skills.

>>5371172
This text adventures are basically an interactive book.

>>5384970
BTSX is definitely one of the best looking ones.

>>5385459
I have so much respect for BTSX's detailing, because it's still within vanilla engine limits.