/vr/ - Retro Games

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NBlood released
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http://nukeykt.retrohost.net/

R.E. port of Blood built with EDuke32

>>5366173
Anyone tried this out yet? How does it compare with BloodGDX?

>>5366184
>[Grabbag intensifies]

>>5366236
I played a bit of it, E1M1 to halfway through E1M3 on Lightly Broiled. I'm not an expert with Blood, so take what I say with a grain of salt:
>Controls feel the same. Jumping physics are a bit different, feels floatier and jumping off of objects is wonky.
>The light flickering at the beginning of E1M1 looks uglier then with GDX. Might be my machine or polymost rendering.
It feels and looks like a good port, ignoring those nitpicks.

>>5366141
Why exactly do you guys not want to just merge with the other retro FPS general?

>>5366267
because it is dominated by doom.

>>5366267
because the other thread is dominated completely by Doom talk and doesn't leave much room for anything else to be talked about.

>>5366267
I'm fine with talking build games on /doom/, but sometimes you want a much more focused discussion, y'know.

>>5366173
Does this work with shareware files?

>>5366267
Because the retro fps general is 99% Doom, you can't really have a discussion about other Doom engine games let alone Build engine.

>>5366267
>RETRO FPS THREAD
>Let's talk about Doom!
>Doom
>Doom
>More Doom
>HUH
>Ha ha yeah, Quake does exist!
>Anyway how about Doom?

>>5366173
Includes the classic renderer with ACTUAL VOXELS not that 3D cubes bullshit.

To play Death Wish, extract it to a new subfolder, rename dw.ini to blood.ini, choose that folder in the launcher. Works perfectly.

Fuck Java, fuck M210 and fuck closed source autists like him.

>>5366312
doom was fuckin insane when it first came out though, even though the engine was actually inferior to ultima underworld in many ways, it felt more advanced, idk how they managed that t b h

I wanna know if Ion Maiden discussion will be allowed here once it comes out. Technically it is VR Tech, so??

I'd rather not deal with the /v/ kiddies for that one.

>>5366334
Same reason Sonic Mania is not allowed here despite literally running on a reverse-engineered classic sanic engine.

Deal with /v/ or go to your favorite discord.

>>5366326
>ACTUAL VOXELS not that 3D cubes bullshit
Now you've got my attention!

>>5366327
I think because it's a game which is easy to just jump into and all the basics are self-explanatory, compared to Ultima Underworld, also having much more replay value (and I'm not even talking about the game being built for users to make their own content for it).

>>5366173
iirc this isn't the only news regarding BUILD engine
>>5366236
Multiplayer is supposedly less laggy, didn't try it yet though

>>5366326
Show comparison shots of the voxels please.

>>5366267
you asked this in that thread, too
my answer is still the same, does it really matter?

we can have threads on whatever, the question is if people will post in it
people will post where they want to post, there's no reason to try and start tribalism with "all discussion must be put in one place"

>>5366354
Just download it and see for yourself. The voxels are 2D sprites in classic renderer and 3D cubes in polymost, same as in eduke32.

>>5366334
We've had plenty of IM discussion here. Go for it.

>>5366295
Nope, it's missing GUI fonts and stuff, maybe it expects other data.

>>5366326
Nice! The cubic voxels ironically don't look as 3D as 2D voxels, since the cubes are more noticable / don't blend together like pixels. And they look like they're out of Minecraft or something.

>>5366236
It currently isn't more accurate than GDX in terms of gameplay unfortunately, not by a very long shot as GDX can do this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yh-HBNz_0s

I tried three recorded demo files (from the DOS version) with it and I already found gameplay desyncs with very simple gameplay. Still it's an early WIP and I hope the author keeps working on its accuracy. If he achieves the degree of accuracy present in the above youtube video it will easily be the best port.

Always bet on Duke, even on shitty controls
Wish it had some form of multiplayer though, would be fun to try

>>5366173
This to me is a whole lot snappier than what BloodGDX is, which feels more in line with the DOSbox version, where the character has some weight and there's a bit of floatiness to the movement.

I don't know which is supposed to be better, though?

I made a software/hardware voxel comparison real quick.

>>5366575
I suppose the hardware render has slightly more color depth, which makes sense.
I always thought the voxel graves were a really cool detail.

>>5366580
Here's another one

>>5366580
No, the hardware renderer draws actual voxels, which are pixels with depth. Software mode draws voxels as tiny billboards, and this makes it look more organic precisely because it's imperfect in nature.

>>5366591
That makes sense actually, considering perspective distorts in software mode with everything else.
I guess I'll just have to see it for myself, rather than stills.

>>5366591
nothing looks more organic in software, my man. That warped view is sickening.

>>5366609
No, that's what he's saying, read again.

>>5366591
nobody gives a shit you retarded autist. go outside and look a tree in some sun maybe, the wonders of what you might find

>>5366593
Can you shoot them?

>>5366620
yikes, what's your issue man? he had an insightful post and you're just spewing shit.

Stop being a cunt.

>>5366620
You should take your own advice and get some fresh air.

>>5366236
Everyone in the Duke4 discord is shitting on the GDX now that NBlood is out.

RIP.

>>5366647
So can you tell me why nblood feels more responsive and snappier in terms of movement? I always thought that Blood was a weightier game, was I wrong?

>>5366664
This is a native Windows application. That java shit's performance was all over the place, no matter your hardware.

>>5366647
Fuck these people, seriously

>>5366647
That's because >>5366617. NBlood is hardly gameplay accurate, and it only took five minutes to find out, yet everybody there is deepthroating the shit out of it. Groupthink phenomenon is a funny thing. When somebody posted that video of himself replaying the whole game of Blood in DOS demos via GDX, or when M210 showed the extensive AI/gameplay test, both without a hint of desync, they still shat on him. Somehow NBlood gets a pass and is free of all scrutiny; in fact it's "the best thing to happen to Blood in a decade."

>>5366664
It doesn't look like the movement is off in either GDX or NBlood, but NBlood clearly hasn't been extensively tested.

>>5366696
>>5366701

>>5366701
Just talking about game feel. nblood feels more like duke nukem than blood.

>>5366701
NBlood author made the excellent FM cores using the electron microscope scans, that should point he's at least very capable at heavy reverse engineering work. Those issues won't last more than a couple months IMO.

3 fucking ports of this game being developed at the same time. Why don't these guys instead come together and make a fucking good port as a team?

THREE that are all being actively developed in fucking 2019.

>>5366739
Wasn't that a specific problem with a crude hodgepodge port of Blood from a few years back, built on EDuke32?

So is there a way to get the additional voxels into nblood right now? I tried the autoload folder but it didn't do it.

>>5366591
I wish we could get software-style voxels in GL mode. Because, as the other anon said, the view shearing is just sickening.

How to play Cryptic Passage in NBlood:

- Create a new subfolder, e.g. "Cryptic Passage"
- Copy all CP* and CRYPTIC* files there.
- Rename CRYPTIC.INI to BLOOD.INI.
- Rename CPART07.AR_ and CPART15.AR_ to TILES018.ART and TILES019.ART.
- Choose the "Cryptic Passage" folder in the launcher.

How to play Death Wish:

- Simply move the "Death Wish 1.5" folder to your Blood folder.
- Rename DW.INI to BLOOD.INI
- Choose the "Death Wish 1.5" folder in the launcher.

Remember to play in the classic renderer (options -> display setup -> video mode) because it's awesome. ;)

>>5366743
Because one of the devs is creating a paid product that doesn't even intend to be a straight port, one is a Russian developing closed-source, and the other is developing open-source? They're significantly different projects.
It's good for there to be variety (and possibly competition) anyways.

Why doesn't someone with clout do a fucking Kickstarter or whatever to either buy the original source or buy the whole fucking IP? How much is the Blood IP actually worth?

>>5366761
I don't know that "competition is good" applies to a 22 year old niche video game that gets it spotlight stolen from titles like Duke and Shadow Warrior, to be completely honest with you.

>>5366141
>OP pic
Thanks!

>>5366801
Cheers.

>>5366789
you're free to try and convince them that they should all be BFFs, good luck

>>5366789
That being said, where is the actual proper Shadow Warrior port? At least the proper win32 and win64 build of the recently released sources. Hm?

>>5366825
>proper Shadow Warrior port
is being integrated in the main eduke32 branch as we speak

>>5366825
Wasn't Shadow Warrior always open source?

>>5366831
Yeah but nobody gave 2 shits about the game so there isn't a feature complete source port yet, Redux is as close as it gets (the only one with true hor+ widescreen and OGG soundtrack support) but it's buggy af and abandoned

>mfw finally finished plug n pray
what a piece of shit that was, god damn

>>5366852
Right? I was really shocked when I saw people praising in in past Build threads.

>>5366852
What's wrong with Trackside Tragedy or Gates Motel?

>>5366647
Hendricks' impotent, barely concealed wet tears of rage will always be how I think of GDX. Seriously, Blood fans have been asking for a port of the game for years and years but the second GDX finally gave them what they wanted, this nigga's been doing nothing but shitting on it for the pettiest reasons he could muster.
Open source always prevails in the end so Nblood will probably end up surpassing GDX, but I find solace in the fact that this petty bastard will forever be buttblasted that he got beaten to the punch in the public's eye by some russian kid coding in java in his spare time.
One question does come to mind concerning BloodGDX though: M210 open sourced all his projects except for Blood because he said the fact that it was RE'd would be a problem legally. Does that mean Nblood fucked up by going open source, or was M210 just lying or misinformed or something?

>>5366880
I kinda liked gates motel, but the rest are from mediocre to pure trash
>that one level with 6-7 battlelord
what the actual fuck man
>>5366884
isnt m210 using stolen code and that's why he cant go open source?

>>5366884
The real reason M210 can't/wouldn't open source BloodGDX is because it's using a lot of the alpha code including the actual labels he pulled from there (you can see them if looking at BloodGDX in a hex editor).

Clean room reverse-engineering is 100% legal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design

>>5366830
Good. Been waiting for a decent SW port for too long.

>>5366891
>>5366895
I see, thanks for clearing that up

>>5366852
Did you have issues with getting lost? I sure fucking did.

So, yesterday, I gave a couple more Episode 2 levels a spin.

Essentially, what I thought of those levels from my previous attempt essentially amounted to something like this (provided you don't either run or strafe, and you use steroids for moving fast):
? -> Tiberius Station -> ? -> Fusion Station -> Lunar Reactor

Tiberius Station presupposes excellent skills at interaction with the environment, none of the ep2 maps teaches you - while teaching you proper item usage (there are all 7 items, and two of the rooms are only reachable with their corresponding items). Fusion Station has dead man walking scenario, and necessitates experimentation in the timed-door-room (walking out of it with steroid pack intact). Lunar Reactor presupposes you knowing how to experiment, and has a chasm room sequence with the jetpack at the very bottom of the chasm, reachable only if you are VERY PERSISTENT with your experiments - and also unmarked as a secret. Tiberius Station doesn't teach you everything you are supposed to already know at the start of Fusion Station, so that's why a assume there is a one-map gap there. In other words, the maps are put in order because later maps require more sophisticated skillset out of player, however, that is also mirrored in their looks, that gets more and more sophisticated and detailed.

Previous time around, I lumped Dark Side with those three level. I don't think now, however, it fits either the gap between Tiberius Station and Fusion Station, or that it precedes Tiberius Station. It is either a map essentially much older than Tiberius Station, or part of a completely independent branch (the ?->TS->?->FS->LR branch is mainly centered around item usage, while DS - around combat, DS also looks considerably cruder and dirtier than any of the aforementioned map).

Anyway, the question that occupied me this time around was in where Spaceport, Warp Factor and Overlord fit. I didn't replay Overlord this time around, but my playing it on my...

>>5366916
...previous attempt led to me lumping it with Toxic Dump and Occupied Territory, because of its aggressive combat balancing, as a map possibly essentially created way after Lunar Reactor (and it looking more modern than Lunar Reactor as well).

Warp Factor I would lump with Dark Side due to very similar looks and emphasis on combat, but as to whether it precedes or follows Dark Side, I am not sure whether can even be determined now, due to uncertainty in regards to how much of its final form is Levelord's doing.

Spaceport however. Spaceport ended up being way more interesting than I have originally imagined. Initially I though it followed Tiberius Station, because that level didn't seem to try to teach you anything you shouldn't have already known by the end of Lunar Reactor. It didn't make sense as a Fusion Station precursor however, and, moreover, it looked and played for too modern for being a Tiberius Station follow-up. Moreover still, there was a particular thing there that stuck out to me. Near the beginning of the level, there was a ventilation grate there, requiring you to do three consecutive upward jumps in it before counting as a secret and giving you a box of pipebombs. While that could be accidental (it isn't because it is mirrored elsewhere on the level), I saw there a reference to Lunar Reactor's chasm room sequence with its consecutive jumping down to the end of the chasm. On the whole, however, despite being a nearly nice play, this level didn't require of the player a skillset nearly expansive enough to be comparable to Lunar Reactor's though, so I let that thought to stay in the back of my mind for a while...

>>5366952
... After completing the level, and still trying to lump the level somewhere alongside Tiberius and Fusion station, I asked myself a question as to whether this level could be completed entirely without item usage (Fusion Station couldn't, for example, Lunar Reactor probably could, but I am not sure whether the intended and accounted for way). Re-checking that led me to conclusions that while you definitely could get to the exit of the level with just running and gunning, you would miss at least some of the secrets, namely, the upper deck with the devastator. Again, having secrets necessitating item usage wasn't anything new, Tiberius Station had a secret only reachable with the jetpack, for example. Still, that thought allowed me to notice a very interesting thing taking place on that level. The very first thing every monitor on the level showed you, when interacted with, was that very upper deck, unreachable without jetpack, specifically a section of it with the elevator shaft and "out of order" sign. That "out of order" sign was mirrored at the bottom of said elevator shaft, and the room from which you accessed that elevator shaft (accessing it - but not ascending it! - was also required for the completion of the level), also gave you a jetpack. Ascending it outright, however, didn't lead you anywhere, because the forcefield surrounding another, red shaft, blocked the pathway from the elevator shaft to the devastator.

Further along the level, after you turn off the forcefield in the red shaft, provided you don't use jetpack, you jump down to the bottom of the red shaft into the water. There you find a keycard you need for exiting the level, but what also could be found there is a secret containing two atomic health and another jetpack, given to you seemingly for no reason (as there isn't all that much opportunity to run dry on the first jetpack by that time). Anyway, jetpacking into upper deck, now that the forcefield is turned off...

>>5366995
>with just walking a gunning
fix.

...gives you access to the last secret, containing devastator, and all is fine and dandy, except.

Except you can go even higher up the red shaft (at the bottom of which you find the second jetpack!), ending up in a little observation room, depicted in the OP post. It doesn't count as a secret, it doesn't give you anything not already depicted in the OP post, it just gives you the view. This mirrors the theme of persistence from the ventilation grate secret in the beginning of the level, as intentional, and puts this level, concept-wise, after Lunar Reactor, which teaches you said persistence (in the context of others Blum's levels). With not requiring of player anything he doesn't already know about the game after completing Lunar Reactor, what might the point of the level be however? What does it revolve around?

Well, for one, it sort of tries its damnedest to hint-hint-nudge-nudge the player into using jetpack for reaching the upper deck. But the real point, I think, is luring the player all the way into observation room and showing him the view. Think about it: an entire level centered essentially around Blum being a really nice guy, in a personal way, to the player.

Anyway, make of it what you will.

P.S. ? -> Tiberius Station -> ? -> Fusion Station -> Lunar Reactor -> Spaceport.

>>5366141
I'm surprised nobody has done a Build engine mod that would basically be Duke Nukem 1 in 1st-person.

>>5366884
>>5366891
>>5366895
It's not the reason at all. Since when do Russians give a shit about copyrights?
Hilariously enough, NBlood has the same names for variables as alpha (or BGDX), so I'm pretty sure it's using alpha source too.

>>5366742
Then deepthroat him when he gets that solved, for now BloodGDX is still the most accurate option

*scares you*

I made it from Shipwrecked to The Overlooked Hotel (halfway through) without saving or dying

>>5367671
fuck right off with that weak shit

these were dead space tier jumpscares

I can't make it past that boss. Please don't hate.

>>5366591
>the hardware renderer draws actual voxels

you do know that voxels had existed for years before the hardware renderer, right?

>>5366852
Careful with what you're saying, you're going to trigger that guy. That guy who doesn't like anything except PnP which is a masterpiece, and who posts long ass shitty reviews nobody reads.

>>5367772
>long ass shitty reviews nobody reads
Oh, good, I thought I was the only one.

>>5367696
If you're not doing Pitchfork start, you should be able to play through pretty much the entire game without dying. EP2 is especially the easiest.

There is so much supplies if you don't pitchfork start it baffles me people call this game Hard, although I have to say that supplies balance is still much better than in DN3D or SW in which you're pretty much always fully loaded unless you do pistol start.

>>5367768
Yeah. Do you know Ken Silverman's SLAB utility has at least 6 voxel rendering modes which are all software driven, including the cube one seen in NBlood's opengl renderer? Even though voxel kinda refers to the three-dimensional nature of its assets, it is mostly associated with 3D cubes.

>>5367792
So you're saying both kinds are accurate. Then why do you call one kind 'actual voxels' and not the other? Sounds like you're trying to bend the definition so it fits more to your liking, like your
>mostly associated
right.

>>5367797
Not him, but that's how voxels looked in blood and sw, so for me they are more accurate them 3d cubes.

>>5367784
I find the difficulty is more in the enemies' (specifically the cultists) reaction time / damage output than a lack of supplies.

Seriously, what the fuck is up with random threads randomly stopping bumping lately? It's ONLY happening on /vr/.

>>5367749
>>5367749
Just circle around it and try to stay in its back while you shoot.

>>5367879
That's what I was trying. I had the impression that it was always facing me.

>>5366263
I have the opposite experience. To me nblood feels a lot tighter than GDX for some reason.

>>5367815

>>5367610
>Hilariously enough, NBlood has the same names for variables as alpha (or BGDX), so I'm pretty sure it's using alpha source too.
Yep. Nukey claimed he's not using the alpha but he's clearly full of shit. He's copying M210's RE method, just using EDuke32 instead, and he doesn't want to admit it. What a bitch.

>>5367034
P.P.S. Also, I think, I know a certain level, that possesses _just_ the kind of "personal touch" Spaceport emphasizes upon, and is quite likely to essentially follow Spaceport in how it plays out. Derelict. Would be funny, if it _actually_ fits, although I frankly doubt it would.

Laser tripmines should have been an inventory item from the start

>>5367671
>"Are you winning son?"

>>5367704
Those were at least manageable if you see them far away, slimers actually made me jumpscare whenever I forgot about one

>>5368318
You could implement that with some CON scripting.

>>5367671
>enter room and hear their shrieks
>immediately exit room and toss in 3-4 pipebombs

>>5368441
Who's that?

>>5368919
Play Witchaven and find out the hard way

>>5368293
>and he doesn't want to admit it. What a bitch
Yeah, imagine not wanting to leave yourself open to be sued by Atari, what a fag.

>>5366884
Man, you should be so lucky that two people in the world with the know how care about this super niche thing but instead the forums are just full of immature shit talking. I don't get it.

>>5368934
Hendriks and his pals have been shitting on M210 because he is using alpha source (which is not exactly true), but now they are sucking Nuke's dick even though he's doing exactly the same thing. The only difference is that Nuke is sucking their dicks back.

>>5366141
which game is that?

>>5369926
>even though he's doing exactly the same thing

Yes, that's why I can download the source and do what I want.

>>5369926
What a bunch of cocksuckers.

>>5366884
And no matter how much they try to fellate Nuke and his port they all know deep inside that Nuke's reverse engineer method was fundamentally based on what M210 did, no matter how much Nuke tries to deny it. It's only because of M210 that we finally have both of these ports all these two decades later but they'll never give credit where its due.

>>5369364
You're absolutely right but the blame falls squarely on hendricks for being such a jealous petulant faggot. Honestly what a fucking queer, as well as the rest of his duke4 cronies. This is why internet forums are even gayer than 4chan.

Commercial Break from DukeHard is probably the only post-MetropolitanMayhem MRCK's map, I have actually liked. Well, no, OK, Siebenpolis is, I guess, palatable. End of the World tries way too hard to be, using /v/-lingo, kino, and is way too unpleasant a play. Yes, I get it, the initial concept of the map was that you go further and further without looking back. Yes, I get it, the mapping style is probably supposed to be a sort of pastiche of previous mapping styles exhibited by MRCK, including his early combat-centered maps, intentional "been there done that". Which you are supposed to pass without looking back. Yes, I get it, "we spend our time letting it go" and "[strike]fucked up[/strike]normal". Yes, I get it, everything about the map, the looks, the difficulty, is supposed to be utter hell, so you wouldn't WANT to go back there. Ever. Much deep, very wow.

Problem is, this is fucking "kino", not "ludo". This is shown, stated, illustrated, postulated, not experienced firsthand. It is not about the player at all, it is about author being like "I think this and that", while grating on player's nerves. Okay, I get it to an extent, doesn't mean I agree with it.

Also, what was up with that chick in the red skirt, the way she's framed in that level imposed some significance onto her. Although, do I even wanna know? I don't think I wanna know, actually.

I don't have a fucking clue as to what the fuck happened in author's life around the time of Metropolitan Mayhem's development, but MRCK before and including Anorak City was a genuine inventor, and MRCK after that just leaves me with "what the actual fuck?" reaction.

Maybe venting it here, now, isn't the best of my ideas, but, fuck's sake, I deserve having a say, after suffering through this shit even considering I skipped Bummed Out.

tl;dr: nihilism nihilism nihilism nihilism nihilism nihilism very deep wow

>>5370056
Yeah, like you contributed so much to GZDoom, EDuke32, RedNukem and every game in history that ever had its source code released. Oh wait you never did shit. Quit your memeing kid, if you're that proficient with code why not just reverse engineer Blood yourself and make your own port? If you can't do that what good are you? Or hell, since you've got this code, why not produce for us a version of NBlood that's actually gameplay accurate? Get on that right now m8, looking forward to your indispensable contributions, please keep us updated (or don't).

>>5369364
It would actually be cool if Nuke and M210 worked together on this port. M210 obviously has a lot of experience with the reverse engineering and the project could move along much faster and potentially be a lot better, too. It's a shame that's never gonna happen.

>>5370543
>It's a shame that's never gonna happen.
And as usual, you can thank Hendricks and TX, the true build engine saviours, for this. H said on several occasions that everyone developing something for Build shoud contribute to EDuke, and if you dare to make your own thing, it shouldn't get any attention and recognition. He said the exact same thing about BloogGDX too.
The problem is that they want everyone to contribute to Eduke, but at the same time they think of it as their personal project and everyone wanting to do stuff for it have to bow to their wishes first and foremost. If M210 based his port on EDuke, you would never see things like custom difficulty or better autoload support. Both H and TX were calling an option to load Cryptic Passage and user addons straight from the menu a shity hack. Don't know if it was just an impotent jealousy or they really think it's somehow bad for users, but you would have to forget about it too.
I completely understand why M210 wanted to make his own thing that he has complete control over instead of complying to the "big guys".

>>5370602
>Both H and TX were calling an option to load Cryptic Passage and user addons straight from the menu a shity hack.
Jesus Christ I hate these nerds. So hopelessly petty in every way and over fucking nothing really. What a toxic bubble duke4 is. Btw is doomworld or the doom modding scene as bad as this? Doesn't appear so as makers of different Doom ports (GZDoom, Chocolate Doom, PRBoom, etc) don't appear to be shitflinging at smaller producers.

>>5370637
>is doomworld or the doom modding scene as bad as this
It's kind of mixed.
Doomworld tends to lean more towards vanilla, or 'Boom' content (basically vanilla +), but it's not like more advanced and out there content is strongly frowned upon, it's just the general preference, you'll get more attention for more oldschool things than newschool things.
They're generally not TOO grognard.

For GZDoom, there's all kinds of things you could do, and thus people do, anything from small vanilla tweaks to complete overhauls.
The devs in charge of that sourceport are, uh, kind of peculiar, petty, and difficult, and the ZDoom forums can have a pretty weird atmosphere, being moderated somewhat oddly, to say the least.
On one hand, you can reach some audience for your work there, and there's people you can talk to who know how to do shit and can help you, or they'll make or provide you with resources you can use, there's some very nice and helpful people there, but there's also some incredibly fucking unbearable people too.

Some people enjoy a lot of GZDoom content, but stay clear from the forums, and you couldn't blame them. On the other hand, some people who carry a grudge (real or imaginary), with the people on those forums (often getting banned, for either genuine reasons, or some very bullshit ones), wash up on /doom/ and NEVER shut their fucking mouths about it, so take some things with a grain of salt.

>>5370602
>calling an option to load Cryptic Passage and user addons straight from the menu a shity hack

way to ommit context, reasons and to misinterpret things so they fit your scenario

>>5370637
>Jesus Christ I hate these nerds.

I fucked your girlfriend in the ass, and I'm an anonymous 4chan poster.

Are you going to believe that as well, call her a bitch and dump her, without even knowing her point of view to the story?
Why don't you develop some perspective.

>>5370741
t. Hendricks.

They literally called it "a hack". There's no more context to it.

On other occasion they said that making people launch addons from the main menu steals from user experience, because this way you don't have custom menu backgrounds\sounds\fonts\etc. The thing is, in BGDX you can still run addons "the old way" and have all this stuff if you want to tiddlyfuck with replacing resources. So in no way this feature is as bad as they want to make it look.

Why is half of the thread filled with whining about nobodies on some forum?

>>5370792
Much like Build tried and failed to emulate what DOOM did, the Build threads are trying to emulate DOOM threads.

>>5370801
>to emulate what DOOM did
But they didn't try to emulate Doom.

>>5366586
Soul/ soulless

>>5370792
Hendricks266 and TerminX are lead devs on Ion Maiden and admins on Duke4. Just FYI.

>>5370864
So what? I'm not sure why the focus is on them instead of either the ports themselves or Duke/SW/Blood etc.

>>5370864
Gandhi was an acclaimed peace activist...and hated blacks and Muslims nonetheless. What's your point and hows A related to B?

>>5370919
Gandhi hated blacks not because of their skin color or height tendencies. He hated them because of the fact that they, especially in Africa, never moved past stone age ways. Not saying that everyone should agree with him, just stating something.

>>5370741
Pipe down Hendricks. I've seen how you and your duke4 bum-chums have behaved since GDX's release with my own eyes so I have plenty of "perspective" thank you.

>>5370792
This is a good point. Hopefully it'll all blow over soon and they'll go back to their irrelevant circle jerk sooner rather than later.

>>5370864
>OMFG :O
Nobody cares Hendricks. Ion maiden will sell what, tens of thousands of copies? Maybe a 100k if you're lucky? There's no way it's gonna be a classic, honestly it seems kind of tacky to me, also like it's pandering towards nostalgia (omg le build engine) than actually built on real substance of its own. The main character is fucking lame, too. In reality it's really just another irrelevant indie game. You need to get outside the Duke4 bubble more (or just stop coming here, that would be the best).

>>5370779
>On other occasion they said that making people launch addons from the main menu steals from user experience, because this way you don't have custom menu backgrounds\sounds\fonts\etc. The thing is, in BGDX you can still run addons "the old way" and have all this stuff if you want to tiddlyfuck with replacing resources. So in no way this feature is as bad as they want to make it look.
Jesus Christ that is the most pathetic attempt at a straw-grab I've ever seen. The truth is they're just pissed off that they never implemented it themselves in the first place. That's how petty those two homos are.

>>5371062
>>5371081
>This thread when it argues about Nblood vs Blood GDX

>>5370792
Don't worry, he'll go away and try to spread his mental illness somewhere else when he realizes nobody's biting.

It's just some samefag using 4chan anonimity and quoting his own posts to try and spread bad rumours.

If at least he didn't throw in racism and homophobia into the mix perhaps, and didn't give away his samefagging so easily, perhaps, just perhaps, someone would bite and he wouldn't have to answer his own posts...

>>5371094
Can't we all just agree that Nblood and BloodGDX are better options than Kaiser's BloodEX port?

>>5371184
>better than something that isn't even out yet
You're just as retarded.

>>5371184
Free jank shit developed by literally who's will never be better than a commercial product you mouth breather.

>>5371183
>all posts I don't agree with must be samefag
speaking of mental illness: http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Denial.html

>>5371215
This is definitely the single biggest retard in the thread so far, gg.

>>5371215
Yeah, that's why everyone plays the DOSBOX version of Doom that's sold on Steam rather than any shitty fan-made sourceport.

Am I crazy for having a hard time going back to Doom and enjoying it? After playing a lot of Duke and Blood, among others I just hate the way that Doom handles secrets, a majority of them feel like complete bullshit and there being no verticality to any of the levels is also kind of a bummer.

I know it's kind of unfair to hate on a game that came so many years before these other ones that ran on more advanced tech. I've never played anything but Episode 1 of Doom, but after replaying Duke 2 times, and Blood 2 times I feel like I need to move onto something else.

>>5371286
not really, the two are entirely separate games but fun in their own way

i think both are pretty cool

>>5366745
It was. Everyone shat on it. And it was made by M210.

>>5370602
>H said on several occasions that everyone developing something for Build shoud contribute to EDuke, and if you dare to make your own thing, it shouldn't get any attention and recognition
Geez, what a fucking faggot.

>>5371184
>Kaiser's BloodEX port
Literally a commercial BloodCM on DIFFERENT FUCKING ENGINE.

>>5371286
Try Strife, it's the most complex game on the Doom engine, mechanics wise.

>>5370484
Hendricks and Linguicia - a Faggot and a Basedboy.

What the fuck happened to old vidya game communities?

>>5371501
Hendricks is a douchebag, while Linguica is just a pathetic faggot.

>>5370637
>>5371501

All retro game communities are fucking retarded.

Except for /vr/ because the mods don't ban you for retarded reasons.

>>5371513
that extends to /vr/ as well which is why one of threads are superior to generals

>>5367772
I like PnP a lot, and I don't write long ass reviews, so fuck you.

>>5371501
all retro communities for older classics are full of basedboys
generally you can find them on discord spouting one liners but never playing games

>>5371513
>>5371530
Look, if you think that all retro game communities are retarded, call it quits or make your own special site.

>>5371635
or generals can be moved to /vg/

>>5370602
>H said on several occasions that everyone developing something for Build shoud contribute to EDuke, and if you dare to make your own thing, it shouldn't get any attention and recognition.

What a nice completely believable and properly sourced statement.

>>5370602
>I completely understand why M210 wanted to make his own thing that he has complete control over instead of complying to the "big guys".

Yes, he wanted to completely do his own thing by borrowing 15 years worth of EDuke32, whoops. You do realize M210 is still there doing "his own thing" because GPL and other laws are worth jack shit in Russia, right? The only reason his shit gets tolerated on duke4 is precisely because people there are not petty bitches and can recognize the good in what he did. Sure, this situation might have infliced some discernable burns on your hated admins but when you have a healthy system regulating your hardly worked on open-source code, you'd also kinda hate this unlikable kid robbing all your work and masking any mention of your code when he's found out (for some inexplicable reason, since the cat's already out of the bag). He didn't even bother pasting a BUILDLIC.txt file for the sake of it like every program using Build is supposed to.

>>5371719
hey there, Hendricks

Id Tech > Build

>>5371719
>The only reason his shit gets tolerated on duke4 is precisely because people there are not petty bitches and can recognize the good in what he did.
Really hendricks? 'Cause I don't think I've seen you say a single good thing about GDX ever. Literally all you did was shit on M210, mostly passive aggressively like a total bitch I might add. Not once have you given him credit for reverse engineering Blood and making a highly gameplay accurate port (the method of which Nuke is ripping of, even though he tried to deny using alpha code, so GDX is actually the only reason NBlood even exists, but you fruitcakes will never admit that). You gave M210 so much shit for using alpha for disassembly like it's such an awful thing to do -- where then is this same criticism for Nuke? Fuck off you pretentious hypocrite.

>He didn't even bother pasting a BUILDLIC.txt file for the sake of it like every program using Build is supposed to.
Oh boohoo. Maybe if you all weren't complete dicks to him all the time he would have. Don't be surprised when not every dude on your faggot forum is going to "kiss the ring".

why does duke nukem 3d still not have full co-op support

>>5371719
Wtf even happened to the Blood port you were supposedly making that was going to blow GDX out of the water? You brought it up to shit on GDX quite a lot remember? Now that NBlood is being made are we just going to pretend it wasn't a thing?

>>5371819
because hendricks is a fucking dipshit

>>5371878
seriously i can play the entirety of daikatana co-op with lag compensation but i can't play duke nukem 3d because the one source port people use has near nonexistant mp compatibility

>>5371750
>>5371809
>>5371836
>>5371878
O B S E S S E D

>>5371891
>one source port people use has near nonexistant mp compatibility

People are using multiple source ports, the fuck are you on? Either get XDuke or the OldMP branch if you want multiplayer.

>>5371904
>XDuke
It's shit that nobody cares about.
>OldMP
It's almost a decade-old version of EDuke32 with the same shitty netcode and some fixes backported from the main branch.

MP support has been removed from EDuke years ago because H and TX are clearly incapable of writing a good netcode and at the same time too embarrassed to have a shitty master-slave netcode in their port. No idea how they are going to hack MP into Ion Maiden.

>>5371719
>you'd also kinda hate this unlikable kid robbing all your work and masking any mention of your code when he's found out
The fuck are you even talking about? Ever sinces he opened sources for build and rr, eduke team and other people were properly mentioned.

Training, first and second levels in Powerslave are clearly made by different people. Training level is by, let's call him, "Mr. Jumping Puzzle (over lava)", level 1 is by "Mr. It's Not QUITE That Simple" (levels look convoluted, are a lot simpler and linear than than look like on a closer inspection, but end up constantly subtly tripping you up with subtle twists to them - without any common theme to these "not quite that simple"s). The level 2, however, is interesting to me. I don't know if that makes all the mappers from the game accounted for, but I am definitely open to any further levels made by level2's author.

>>5372234
Also, I vaguely remember reading somewhere, that one of the versions of the PC iteration of the game had a completely different final level. Some beta or something? Anyone knows anything about that, or am I mixing things in my mind?

>>5371719
>What a nice completely believable and properly sourced statement.

>>5372281
Nevermind, found the thread. Seems like it's not COMPLETELY different, more like earlier iteration, judging by the info there.

>>5372287
And here's he's talking about BGDX, the first (and so far the only) gameplay-accurate port.

>>5372287
>>5372297
OBSESSED

>>5372297
Its relevance to what exactly?

>>5372314
Its overall relevance in the community.

>>5372234
Level 3 was likely made by the same person who made level 2, although in what order I can't currently tell. I will be replaying those two levels later, after I fully complete the game.

So far:
MapperA: 00 (training)
MapperB: 01
MapperC: 02, 03

Level4, from what I remember, is quite likely MapperA's. I am not looking forward to rechecking that, but I don't have a choice (other than hacking the necessary resources for level5 which I don't want to do) since Powerslave levels aren't knifestartable. I won't proceed with it right now, however.

>>5372287
What nice, completely dismissable wishful opinions that are totally different from what you previously mentioned.

>>5372387
It sure is.
>m210 went his own way instead of contributing to eduke
thus his port
>should be getting as much attention as mochadoom

lol'd at "cloning menu code" btw

>>5372445

>wake up
>people actually bit

Why do you bother? This guy's obviously mentally ill and anyone who isn't brainded can see behind his samefagging, racism, homophobia, and his crusade against eduke32 devs, and isn't going to take anything he say for granted.
Talking to him will amount to nothing considering his level of dishonesty and at best it'll give him more quotes to distort so it fits his scenario.
I'm thinking it's one of the beta guys guilty of harrassment, who's still mad that he didn't have access to betaz.

Build engine threads are a lost cause thanks to this fucking autist, good job

>>5372452
>got a bunch of screenshots proving Hendricks being a douchebad
>b-but muh racism and homophobia
Get the fuck out of here you crybaby.

Thanks for reminding me of the betas btw. Another proof that both Hendricks and TerminX are fucking scumbags who literally hijacked the entire Build engine for themselves.

Good doggy, play dead...

Burn baby burn, flames keep getting highe'!

buuuuurn

I said burn

I said BURN

I'm not an arsonist, but it's beautiful

>>5372385
Powerslave.
MapperA: levels 00, 04
MapperB: levels 01, 05
MapperC: levels 02, 03

>>5372452
>racism, homophobia
Is vr unironically reddit now? Feel free to go back to your safe space any time faggot.

>>5372602
Level 6 - MapperC, seems to be an earlier, concept-wise, level, than both levels 2 and 3.

>>5372452
holy shit could you be any more of a faggot? grow a fucking spine

>>5372782
>>5372602
In my opinion Powerslave mappers can be divided into two categories:

You see, unlike in other Build games, Sector Effectors in PS are not unique sprites. Any sprite can become a SE given the right tags.

Now, there are the mapper(s) which were organized and made sure their maps didn't look like a mess in editor: this or those mappers used those coloured dots which have no purpose other than that ;

And there are those which did not give a single fuck and used whatever

Based on this, I'd say your guesses are wrong

>>5372810
also, Lev0 being a tutorial map, and seeing that it belongs into the 'organized mapper' category, it's pretty safe to say that the maps with coloured dots are Paul Knutzen

Finally, the end game credits only list two level designers.

>>5372810
Or those that first didn't use colored dots, and then started. PC Powerslave was 3 years in development, after all.
>>5372820
And manual lists three.

>>5372862
>Or those that first didn't use colored dots, and then started

Honestly I find that unlikely; it's pretty consistent throughout the levels and iirc it was identical in the beta version and demo version.

Also, as usual, you assume that levels are designed in a linear way, as in, make one level from start to finish, then make another.
That's just never how it works.

Someone who'd start using the dots after some time, someone that does this only to make sure his maps don't look messy in the editor, would replace the sprites that were already in.
Else you'd see maps which are part random sprites, and part colour dots (because again, maps are never designed linearily), which we don't.


>And manual lists three.

Are you getting confused with the console version or something? The manual gives even less details than the end game credits

>PC Powerslave was 3 years in development, after all.

yes and no, everything indicates very little was done on it while they were finishing the console versions.

>>5372901
>The manual gives even less details than the end game credits

As in there has to be a reason why they call it "stage design" here and "level design" in the end game credits and not have Meissner in the end game credits.

>Try multiple times to play Shadow Warrior
>Still can't get into it like Douk and Blood

Any tips for Shadow Warrior? Please.

Fuck, I think I really love Ion Maiden, desu with you lads. I've already played close to 5 hours of it. The gameplay feels so good and I've really grown to love the weapons in it as well, aside from the melee one which kind of sucks.
It is such a stunning game, what they're pulling off with the engine is so impressive, and I feel like Level 2 "Washington Wasteland" is as good as any of the classic build maps. Heskel's House of Terrors was absolutely fantastic as well.

>>5372915
I think it's just a shittier and less interesting game. But I'm probably not the right person to ask because I didn't even finish Episode 1. Instead of playing it, I'm replaying Douk and Blood. I should probably play it though, but between the totally uninteresting (to me) aesthetic and theme, and the vehicle sections that the game seem to have it just looks like a slog. Also Redux sucks.

I'd probably be playing it right now if there was a port that was of the same quality as eduke is but I really fucking hate how Redux feels.

>>5372287
This subhuman is such a hatable faggot.

>>5372901
I will (maybe) concern myself with The Mystery Of The Colored Dots after I finish the game and my breakdown of it.
Back to Philae for me.

>>5372929
>if there was a port that was of the same quality as eduke
Supposedly it's going to be ported by the same guys. Eventually.

>>5372464
>Thanks for reminding me of the betas btw. Another proof that both Hendricks and TerminX are fucking scumbags who literally hijacked the entire Build engine for themselves.

I know the scumbag will say I'm samefagging, but no. I just wholeheartedly agree with your post. Duke Nukem kept up with Doom back in the early 2000s, when there was a large community, various sites like AMC, 3DRealms etc.

As soon as these pretentious people (particularly Hendricks) got their rotten hands on some Duke/Build stuff, and as soon as Duke4 became the only active forum for the community, they hijacked everything about the game. All the projects, all the betas. They are playing gods now. Probably they are pretty unremarkable people in real life, so they can play with supwerpower now on the internet.

Betas will never be released because these guys will sit on them forever.

All of this is quite a sad story. Meanwhile Doom got away, and by now far more people are playing it desite being a more limited game. There are various sourceports, various editors etc. that kept everything fresh.

>>5372968
>Betas will never be released because these guys will sit on them forever.
To be completely honest, it's not really Hendricks' fault. He honored his part of a deal: cracked and cleaned up Duke's betas, prepared them for release, and sent them to Fred from 3DR. Then Fred has been sitting on them for a very long time waiting for some bullshit reason to release them, like 20th anniversary, until the entire Duke IP was acquired by GB. So it's mostly Fred's fault.
Shadow Warrior betas and Deadly Kiss are entirely different story. How they treated Robman really showed how much of a toxic scum both Evan and Dick are.

>>5372961
Let me ask then, what do you base your guesses on?
Especially in Powerslave design is pretty consistent between levels.
Also stuff like the way puzzles, jumping segment, or enemies are treated, could very well mean nothing. Knutzen being level lead most likely influenced a lot of that even in the maps that are not 'his'.

The coloured dot is the only substantial clue if you ask me.

>>5372989
They've been releasing every beta they legally can iirc.

I may actually prefer the way GDX renders the lighting and color. NBlood is more accurate, but I don't know that it looks better, to be completely honest.

>>5372990
How I view the mappers changes with the process of playing the game, seeing also, that mappers' mapping style changed from map to map as they got better.

This is how I currently view them.
MapperB is gamey and buildporn-y, designs in a clean, spacious, nicey-looking style. Has no sense of progression whatsoever. Level 5 is complexity for the sake of complexity. Dodging poison in the water streams in Philae is arcade-y minigame (and a roulette as well).
MapperA is a skill-player. Designs in a blocky, occasionally somewhat haphazard, style, is pretty loose with space: frequently gives you either much more than you need or somewhat less than you need (what I mean, spacing isn't all that tightly fit for the specific situation that plays out in it).
MapperC is about experimenting with mechanics and double-checking your assumptions non-stop, very much supports playing as carefully as possible, except for very specific occasions - but other than that the least characterizable out of three. Places tend to be somewhat realistic looking (to the extent this is at all possible in this game).

>>5372452
Blow it out your ass

>>5373008
Hey analytic guy, does your profile consist playing Mario style 2D platformers? If so, I have a job for you.

>>5373035
I don't take jobs, and I don't play Mario style 2D platformers.

>>5373000
If you set NBlood to Polymost you'll get exact same colors as in GDX.

>>5373070
Alright, well still my point wasn't really about the capabilities or lack thereof to the renderer of nblood, just me realizing that I may actually prefer the polymost look to the "true" look.

It's funny how you autists are always looking for conflict.

Back when there was no NBlood it was GDX vs. DOSBox. People would engage in long ass arguments on how playing at 640x400@30 fps with bad mouse controls is so much better.

Before GDX it was DOSBox vs. real hardware. If you don't have a machine capable of running real DOS then you're a faggot etc etc.

This will never stop. The Build community is pure cancer.

>>5373104
Blood makes people irrational, aggressive, and overall fanatical. It's best to ignore Bloodfags and just read between their posts.

>>5373070
Not true. Nblood has palette emulation option, just like eduke, that makes colors look like in software mode. BGDX doesn't.

>>5373142
So Blood increases T?

>>5373142
Duke is a much better game, and most people know it. Blood has more aggressive and fanatical and louder fanbase though, so it looks like they are even. In reality, noone cares about Blood.

>>5373257
Duke fucking sucks. It's slower, the character is generally unfunny after a while (Writing-wise, Douk's one liners are god tier but Caleb's are better with in-game context.) and the weapons feel (and probably are) less powerful.

>>5373359
>Duke and SW fans
>love all three games
>Bloodfag
>hate anything that isn't Blood
Piss off.

>>5373359
>>5373257
>>5373142
>>5373104
Go away.

>>5373359
I played through Duke recently and it felt really stiff compared to Blood. The transition in and out of water feels weird, too, in comparison, like you never maintain momentum. I wouldn't say it's slower -- Duke's auto run feels faster than Blood's imo and the lack of cultist-like enemies means you don't have to creep around as much.

Actually, I think a lot of people wouldn't complain as much about the Blood hitscanners if their rate of fire / damage was more in line with the Pig Cops. Duke has hitscanner pigs and lizards all over the place but the damage is so low you don't have to worry about it. The only thing that ended up killing me were explosions that seemed to come out of no where (although I like the one in ep 2 where you can see it coming behind you through the mirror).

>>5366141
Why haven't either Nightdive,Obsidian, Otherside Entertainment, WB, Bluehole, nor Epic bought the full rights to the Blood series from current-year Atari?

>>5373439
why would most of those companies give a shit?

>>5372446
>philosophical reasons
Christ almighty.

>>5373445
The rights to the System Shock series were once in a sort of vacuum, but eventually Night Dive managed to buy the rights in the late 2000s-early 2010s. Contemporary Atari is more of a publisher than a developer these days. If Disney can make a deal with Fox as to buying the film rights to the Fantastic Four and X-Men, why can't Night Dive, Epic, Obsidian, Bluehole, or WB(the current owners of Monolith) strike a deal with Atari so that the latter agrees to sell the full rights to the Blood series to one of them(perhaps coupled with the other selling one of their subsidiaries to Atari ie Bluehole selling PUBG Corp in exchange)?

>>5372446
Fug, what an absolute giga sperg...

>>5373439
Because they want an absurd amount of money for it.

>>5372921
the first demo ran like shit for me, is it better now? the first map was basically just an overdetailed corridor as well

>>5372446
He can't keep getting away with it, r-right bros?

>>5373445
See
>>5373489

Powerslave
MapperA: 00, 04, 08, 10,
MapperB: 01, 05, 07, 09,
MapperC: 02, 03, 06,

>>5373368
I, for one, don't care about Blood. It's an alright game, but doesn't have that powerful leveldesign what made Duke legendary.

Everything about Blood (and for that matter, RR and even SW as well) felt like they are just ambitious Duke total conversions, and not newly developed games. Like Heretic and Hexen with ID Tech 1.

Doom and Duke are on a different planet.

>>5372901
>it's pretty consistent throughout the levels
Almost as if internal consistency is of crucial importance while making a level for a commercial game.
>Also, as usual, you assume that levels are designed in a linear way, as in, make one level from start to finish, then make another.
No, I assume they were finished the way they were started.
>would replace the sprites that were already in.
Except these hours could be spent otherwise, and he already knows what looks what in HIS level.
Tell me this: why does the ENTIRETY of Dark Side have much lower level of detail, than the Spaceport? Blum couldn't ass upping the map to MUH STANDARDS by sprinkling details onto it? Couldn't he, oh, I dunno, remake the level from scratch, and do it every time 3D-Realms upgraded their working PCs, having significantly more processing budget every time? Or did he simply finish what he once started the way he started it, so that the level would look consistent in accordance with what it was once conceived and sketched out as?
What you are pushing towards, is remaking a level after each bright enough idea that enters your mind. That is just stupid. That time could be spent making a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LEVEL. More sophisticated looking and better playing one since you got better. And if you rather keep your old level, then maybe there is a reason for doing that, and if you are doing that, then maybe you make sure that whatever you do on it, it keep staying and looking consistent with what it was. Otherwise you might just as well not bother, scrape that shit, and simply make a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LEVEL. Maybe on the same concept, as a sort of spiritual successor, but with a 100% different implementation.

Is there a really good user map set available for Duke3D? Something on the level of Death Wish for Blood in size and quality?

>>5374151
>is remaking a level after each bright enough idea that enters your mind
Also, this, on a larger scale, is, from what I understand, usually called "development hell".

>>5374132
lol

>>5374132
Blood started development in 1994. The engine is very different from Duke Nukem. Redneck Rampage is the one that's literally built on Duke Nukem.

>>5374151
I know you're making a different point, I just wanted to point out the irony.

>>5374191
Another part of the irony is that in the particular shots, relating to Dark Side, after cutting, the overall picture started looking more consistent with what its walls and rocks (made in quite broad strokes) were suggesting, than it was before cutting. What I mean is that probably the first things to go were precisely the facelifts, that were once used to "freshen up" the look of the map.

>>5374151
>No, I assume they were finished the way they were started.
Also, this (or rather THAT, for which THIS is a direct result), from what I understand, is usually called "getting into the mindset".

>>5374154
DNF2013 is the closest I guess
https://www.moddb.com/mods/duke-nukem-forever

why did they put that shortcut on overlord?

>>5374240
It's kind of ironic that Hendricks killed the Douk modding scene when he made the best source port.

>>5374365
Why's that? I always figured there would be a lot more quality content if only because the Duke playerbase is so much bigger than Blood

>>5374387
Mapster is hard and no one cares enough to make it more accesible

>>5374124
Level 11 - also MapperB. Assuming they split the maps even-steven (although MapperA seems to got it quite easy so far, with training level and Set level, which are very comparatively small), that leaves only two more maps of his. Good. I am getting very weary and annoyed with his pointless spaghetti bullshit, mapping skills mastery or not.

>>5374448
Also, HE SURE LIKES HIS FUCKING WATER, TELL YOU HWUT.

>>5374401
>Mapster is hard

Mapster is literally Build tho, and it's not even hard, just not babby moded to its full potential with a proper GUI.

>>5374510
>making a program easy & fast to use = making it for babbies
Enjoy your elitist bubble bro

>>5374540
But Build is pretty easy and fast to use, it's the polishing stage where you can make the argument of it getting a bit messy. How would you improve it?

>>5374151
>Except these hours could be spent otherwise
>What you are pushing towards, is remaking a level after each bright enough idea that enters your mind.

As usual you're spouting bullshit that try and support your super wild guesswork, because you have no idea how things work internally.

in this picture >>5372810 all it takes to change from the bottom to the top row is to change picnum of the sprites that share that same picnum. Someone like Knutzen, who's not only is level lead but also got his hands in other fields, would know to find a way to do that in a few secs, and if he didn't, he'd ask his programmer which would take a few mins tops.

And this entire thing you're spouting is based on the GUESS that, not only the coloured dots weren't in the game early in development, but also that there is a 2Nd half of maps that got started after the point when the dots were added, and that someone who'd make sure to use them in his new maps so they don't look messy in the editor, wouldn't use them in his older maps.

That's a lot of ifs and guessworks just to support your primary guesswork >>5374124

But here is a most likely guesswork:
>early on, programmers create this effect system that doesn't care about sprite picnums
>level lead realizes as a result this make things look messy, you can't tell what is what unless you check for tags, and decide they should dedicate coloured dots sprites to effect use to clarify things
>other level designer(s) don't want to bother to use it because it's purely cosmetic

>>5374595
>level lead realizes as a result this make things look messy, you can't tell what is what unless you check for tags, and decide they should dedicate coloured dots sprites to effect use to clarify things

and this guesswork is based on the fact that the tutorial and first levels used the coloured dots. These maps, the tutorial one most specifically, are the most likely to have been made by the level lead.

Yes; this is also a lot of guesses, but at least they're based on technical points that anyone can see; not imaginary points such as having more level designers than the credits do, or things such as "this area is cramped and this one isn't so it's impossible these two maps are of the same mapper", or claiming that they'd have to restart the entire maps over or take hours to replace a picnum just so in my head these technical points won't argue with my wild guesses.

>>5374595 (You)
>level lead realizes as a result this make things look messy, you can't tell what is what unless you check for tags, and decide they should dedicate coloured dots sprites to effect use to clarify things

and this guesswork is based on the fact that the tutorial and first levels used the coloured dots. These maps, the tutorial one most specifically, are the most likely to have been made by the level lead.
and it's also based on how, by experience, some Build mappers seem to have ADHD and like to make sure things look as cleanly as possible even in the editor, and others don't care and for instance have liztroops be the wrong palette in the editor, or newbeasts the wrong size, or have sector effectors in mid air rather than on the floor, because it makes no difference in game, to the player.

Yes; this is also a lot of guesses, but at least they're based on technical points that anyone can see; not imaginary points such as having more level designers than the credits do, or things such as "this area is cramped and this one isn't so it's impossible these two maps are of the same mapper", or claiming that they'd have to restart the entire maps over or take hours to replace a picnum just so in my head these technical points won't argue with my wild guesses.

>>5374595
>because you have no idea how things work internally.
I don't know and I don't particularly care. I view things from player's perspective, assuming level-designers playtested their maps and expanded on their levels based on experience from playtesting them, and the only thing I care about is whether there is anything non-trivial to be learned from these or those maps.
>Someone like Knutzen
Who the fuck is Knutzen? Is he your best buddy for you to vouch for him? Knutzen this, Knutzen that, that's a lot of guesses in regards to one particular Knutzen.
>And this entire thing you're spouting is based on the GUESS that, not only the coloured dots weren't in the game early in development, but also that there is a 2Nd half of maps that got started after the point when the dots were added, and that someone who'd make sure to use them in his new maps so they don't look messy in the editor, wouldn't use them in his older maps.
The only thing I guess is that someone introduced a FASHION of using the dots in this particular role, and others followed up on that fashion. Also, you sure do make a lot of guesses in regards to Powerslave's mapping tools, which, if I remember correctly, weren't officially released.

>>5374612
Also, you tell me, why the fuck isn't Levelord credited in Blood, despite E2M2 having been started by him. Or in Plutonium Pak, for that matter, despite designing that Terminator level.

>>5374615
>Knutzen this, Knutzen that, that's a lot of guesses in regards to one particular Knutzen.

Because he was lead level designer, and in fact, the only one credited as "level designer" in the game credits with McKneely credited as "additionnal level design"; and he also had hands in other fields in the game like art.

This means that his influence reached far beyond just 'making his own maps'. He could very well have modified other people's maps, or sketched layouts for them to make, or added puzzles, progression ideas, tell the other(s) to make an area bigger or more cramped etc etc etc so the little design things you use to try and determine who did what mean nothing.

Someone in charge like that is the most likely to have designed the tutorial map, for instance.

I'm telling you you're wasting your time with your wild guesswork like this >>5373008
>>5374124

I know the colourdots aren't flawless, but my point is, at least try to base your guesses on real technical points instead of living in your imaginary world where you constantly think you're inside the mappers' heads


>>5374619
Because he both cases he stopped working for them during development.
Absolutely nothing indicates there is something similar for Powerslave.

>>5374627
>I'm telling you you're wasting your time with your wild guesswork like this
It's my fucking time, and I spend it however I well goddamn please. End of the story.

>>5374627
>so the little design things you use to try and determine who did what mean nothing.
Exactly the opposite, by the way. It's precisely the little things that do slip under anyone-else's-on-the-team radar.

>>5374641
And are NOT a subject to any external tampering, that is. Well, the majority of little things, that is. not all of them, some of them DO get on the radar and are subsequently changed.

>>5374635
>>5374641
making level reviews is fine, but the way you do it is like modern art review, you interpret things and tell what you see and feel, but that is nothing more than what YOU see and feel, it doesn't mean you got into the designer's head and that all of those were intentional design.

So it becomes a problem when you start to claim that you know who designed what with no regard of everything we know about the game's development, or that you know how things were designed internally like when you claimed the beta start point of Toxic Dump was intentionally or that changing a picnum takes hours.

Build engine thread:

>Blood fanboys appear and start ranking Build games putting Blood in the first place, then Duke, then SW to prove their point

>Blood haters appear and start posting about how Blood is the worst game ever made

>Hendricks appear and start shitting on everything not related to his name

>Hendricks haters appear and start insulting Hendricks

>Mental reviewer anon appears and start analyzing maps in a weird mental way

>Mental anon's haters appear and start insulting mental anon

Level 12 - MapperC.

>>5374648
>So it becomes a problem
Whose problem? What problem? You know, what's a problem? Something that follows you up, something you can't simply ignore away. I fail to see any problem here whatsoever. Moreover, however much you intend on pestering me, I will respond to you only insofar as it keeps, frankly put, amusing me and leading me to new ideas and developments. As soon as I decide that conversing with you simply ceased being worth it, I will just begin looking past your posts, as simple as that. Will anything you can possibly do here stop me from simply doing my thing whatever that thing might be, as long as it is compliant with the rules of this board? I highly doubt that. You don't seem to have a real say in this particular place. So, in relation to me, your simply don't have any case whatsoever, and you can do jack shit to change my current behavior. So, from this point onward, you can either stop behaving like an entitled primadonna with OH I HAVE ONE COMMERCIAL LEVEL I KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERY GAME DEVELOPMENT COMPANY EVER YADDA YADDA and dial it down a notch, or we might just subsequently start conversing through fuckyous. Your choice, really.

>>5374648
And, by the way, the point of view I was promoting in regards to Toxic Dump beta, was shot down by myself through the actual research on said beta.

>>5374657
And yes, there is one particular guess there, that might have just missed the mark. If that ended up being the case, then I sincerely apologize to a certain third person, and I'll try to be more careful with what I say, in the future

>>5374657
>What problem?
>entitled

Who's entitled? You think your analysis is so precious you can claim you know facts such as whose level designer made which maps.

Make your reviews, that's fine, but can not make such claim. Shit,, even if we actually had Knutzen or McKneely tell us these things, I'd take them with a grain of salt because it's been 20 years and who wouldn't know if the guy remembers correctly or wants to take credits for things he didn't do, or is too humble to tell everything he did.


>OH I HAVE ONE COMMERCIAL LEVEL I KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERY GAME DEVELOPMENT COMPANY EVER YADDA YADDA

lol wat, no idea who you think i am
also you seem to think i'm the only one calling your shits, from what i can tell there is at least 2 people who did. That's 3 people who told you you're going too far with your claims.

>>5374672
before you try to make claim and again think your guts is enough to claim who did what or who is who,
for the record i'm just a build passionnate who likes to tinker with the insides of build games and hasn't even released anything

>>5374672
It's rather that I know that guy can occasionally sameperson. With the usage of the lowercase. Whether you are him
doesn't interest me all that much, to be frank.

That's for one. Second. Breaking down the map in between of potential mappers is an intermediary goal to me. The primary goal is someone - or rather a strand of levels, if you will - I designate with the moniker MapperC. Strands MapperA and MapperB can go screw themselves as far as I am concerned, I am simply suffering through them right now, in order to built a correct set of ingame saves, I can then use however I please.

First, I intend to check whether West Bank belongs, in my opinion, to strand MapperC.
Second, I intend to get to the 20th level, which I might or might not complete depending on which strand I will relate it to. Regardless, by this time I will have the full set of levels comprising, in my opinion strand MapperC.
Then, using backup saves I am making while playing through the game, I will start replaying levels from strand MapperC and put them in a sequence. Like dominoes. Each level presupposes you've learned a certain thing from a previous level and tests how well you have learned it, while also teaching you one new thing. That comprises a skill progression. It's not a given I will be able to order these levels in such a way, it's not a given that is at all possible in this particular case, but I will sure give it a try.
And then, having ordered them in a sequence, based on the expansion of the skillset required for their completion, I will see, whether that takes me anywhere in particular concept-wise.

These are my current plans in regard to this particular game, or rather a certain part of it, and I fully intend to follow up on them regardless of whether you happen to like anything about them, or not.

v2 of Alien Armageddon just got released, it's got both Duke it out in DC and Vacation included with some changes and new enemies

https://www.moddb.com/mods/duke-nukem-alien-armageddon/downloads/alien-armageddon-20

>>5374653
and those of us who just want to talk levels or mods get ignored, which is the primary reason why these threads splintered from the Doom thread in the first place

>>5374653
More like:
>someone's being a retard
>people start getting annoyed

>>5374686
Powerslave
_STRAND_ A: levels 00, 04, 08, 10, 13,
_STRAND_ B: levels 01, 05, 07, 09, 11,
_STRAND_ C: levels 02, 03, 06, 12, 14,

West Bank did indeed end up being the level from _STRAND_ C, problem is, it isn't "be all, end all " level, in that it is a rather early level, probably not the first in the _STRAND_, but still quite an early one.

>>5374806
Also, Jesus Fuck Level 13, this crap just isn't fun.

Give me a quick rundown on review-anon and his weird leveltalk

>>5374829
Level-anon.
See this (and further down the thread):
>>/vr/thread/5276173#p5289230
I am doing a similar thing here, except without having Doom levels reference.

All this talk about Powerslave got me interested. Are there any definite resources about the maps? Screenshots? Sector maps? Details about design quirks?

I'll have to build the Egypt/Desert episode of my game at one point and so far I have only looked at the desert maps from Hexen II.

I went back to Serious Sam FE and even though I like the Egyptian setting a great deal, its map layout is not something I want to imitate, except for the feel of scope maybe, but not just open yards connected by corridors.

>>5371809
You do know omitting BUILDLIC is against the law?

>>5375064
Who cares right? Let's just be assholes towards devs who are nice enough to open source their engines, while using the renderer they made too.

That should help convince other devs to release the source of their games.

>>5374806
Level 15 - strand B. Just one more level by the retard, one more level. Fucking copycat. Of course in the level where I switched to cobras because I ran out of everything else, barring grenades and Ra, I definitely needed YET another heart or extralife. This is what happens when you use borrowed knowledge, YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE AS TO WHAT, AND, ESPECIALLY, WHY, YOU ARE DOING, YOU ARE JUST COMPILING TROPES AND MEMES TOGETHER, TRYING TO LOOK SMARTER THAN YOU REALLY ARE.

By the way
uh
is crouching right next to spider boss the safe spot, or did something glitch? Because I wasted 25 Ra and and invulnerability on the cunt, and, apparently, disregarding little spiders, I could've just macheted her (well, that would probably take an hour, but whatever, I mean in principle)?

Also, my God, that final secret, Jesus.

One more level.

>>5375109
Also, one cobra killing ALL the spiderspawn was glorious.

>>5375109
Here is the word I was missing. Yapping. Strand B is just yapping in a form of Build maps.

>>5366141
BloodGDX=BloodEX>Rednukem>EDuke32>playing Build Gamesvia DOSBOX>Nblood>Chocolate Duke>everything else

>>5375064
So sue him bitchboy.

>>5376030
Can't sue inanimate objects like fishbait. Also here's some (You) for wasting some time trying to come up with fighting words.

>>5376046
so shut the fuck up bitchboy. or just cry more lol
>wasting some time trying to come up with fighting words.
i dont live on 4chan like you do kid

>>5374587
See: Doom Builder 2/GZDoom Builder

>>5374829
He's just a really dumb autist that's actually inept at FPS. He's demonstrated this ineptitude repeatedly on this board and has been blown the fuck out over it multiple times, the most painful of which was in a certain webm thread last year. More than he is dumb, he is pretentious, uselessly verbose, and unfortunately he has an internet connection. I'm genuinely amazed people even bother to finish reading his schlock.

>>5376148
At least he has a memorable personality, and he can write unique stuff. Some of them are overcomplicated BS, others are interesting and worthy of reading.

Unlike ((((you)))), who is just one of the many faceless, boring virgins on this board without any kind of interesting content.

>>5376183
>At least he has a memorable personality
That kid in second grade with down syndrome was memorable, too.
>others are interesting and worthy of reading.
Well he's hardly the only nimrod here. Guess I'm not amazed after all.

>>5368510
Just spam the mighty boot whenever you are near eggs, on the green texture or just hear their sound effect

>>5376236
Do you tend to insult EVERY person that happens not to fully agree with you?

>>5376141
There's hardly any difference except the multi-sector highlight and windows GUI.

>>5366593
What game/mod is this?

Does anybody remember a fantasy-themed TC for Duke Nukem 3D?

I remember playing one way back but the only thing I remember about it was that the main character had a really flat and unenthusiastic line delivery.

>>5375109
Level 16 a.k.a. "Will This Horseshit Ever End: The Level" - strand A. One more level by this particular retard, I imagine. God, I hope it's level 20, then I will gleefully say "I guess, I'll just never know" and wholeheartedly just skip it. "Oh look, my, uh, level isn't trivial, it isn't at all copypasted from Romero and that person on Powerslave team who knew what he was doing, you, uh, ought to me-mo-rize stewff, uh, so when you replay it, uh, fifth time around, you will know each bullsh~ intellectual and non-trivial trap by heart and you would, uh, play without any, uh, hitches, because, that's, uh, real skill and, uh, you just need to learn muh level, uh, or you would play like, uh, scrub or, uh, something. Uh." Fucking nerd. The bad kind.

>>5376825
And by the way, after the first checkpoint I have restarted it just once. Exited with all the lives, hearts, invincibilities, health and mana as well.

>>5376745
Yes, but if you're looking for the name, atm it escapes me as well

>>5376825
Level 17 - strand C. Might be the first, most primitive and straightforward, map in the strand actually. Level 14 is likely its direct sequel, although that's just a preliminary estimation. Then, I guess, level 6? Anyway, not the point. Point is, I really hope the last, I assume, remaining map from the strand is going to be a really good and sophisticated one, otherwise I'll be quite a bit disappointed, actually.

>>5376745
Mystique ages in time IIRC

it had some neat stuff but quality levels were all over the place

This map is gorgeous

and it feels good to finally play it with no lag due to the rain

>>5376880
Level 18 - strand B, the last one probably. Other level, that, in my opinion, belong to the same strand, are levels 01, 05, 07, 09, 11 and 15.
I would be lying if said level 18 wasn't memorable. Annoying, unnerving, but memorable. Worse, it might just be, that levels from strand B revolve around some kind of constructive point of their own, so maybe I really was unfair to whoever designed (maybe just some of) these levels. But I won't be revisiting them any time soon, because, in part, frankly, I just don't enjoy them, despite them generally looking nice and all. Regardless, I will hold on to those saves, so, maybe, some day, in the unforeseeable future, I just might revisit those hives and all those water levels one more time. For now, however, that is, unless there is another similar level among the remaining two, a firm and decisive goodbye.

Boomers near and far, gather around and hear me. There is a great sin among us that must be talked about.

That sin is overly detailed doom maps and the unbridled autism of some doom mappers. Why the fuck do mappers find it necessary to do pic related? The game isn't a true 3-d game but they make maps as if it is.

They add all this unnecessary god damn detail that you don't need and on top of that they make their maps way too damn big. I notice this on Zandronum a lot. There are servers that host awful mappacks where you just spawn and there is an army in the start of the map ready to kill you instantly.

On top of all of this, as a side note about Zandronum, you guys know the meme about games that have the signature red flags such as open world, crafting, survival, early access etc.?

There are several Zandronum maps that have similar red flags, these flags are as follows: Survival (gamemode), LCA, CD (complex doom), bad maps/mappacks and Clusterfuck.

If you see these red flags, DO NOT join the server. That is all I have to say on that matter.

Anyone here feel me on this issue? I fucking hate it when autist mappers do this unnecessary, high detailed bullshit as well as making their maps huge.

what's the best map in Duke's ep1 that isn't Hollywood Holocaust ?

and why is it Death Row?

>>5377014
Death Row is my favorite level overall in the game I think.

>Level 19
Strand C. The level was... okay. Nothing special, that is. I expected him to go with the bang though. I guess, there is always a continuation in the form of the Saturn version, but, you know.

>Level 20
>playing for like 2 minutes
Yup.
If it isn't our favorite~
>Esc
>QUIT GAME
Fuck _YOU_! A thread-related reference, by the way, should give you an idea as to how it's meant to be intoned.
GUESS WHO IS HAVING THE LAST LAUGH _NOW_. Not a reference.

Anyway, my final version of the level breakdown.

Strand A: levels 00, 04, 08, 10, 13, 16, 20.
Strand B: levels 01, 05, 07, 09, 11, 15, 18.
Strand C: levels 02, 03, 06, 12, 14, 17, 19.

I still fully intend to proceed with the further analysis of Strand C, but, you know, later. I am somewhat burned out on the game, so I'll switch my attention elsewhere for a bit.

>>5376943
Are you done? Thank god.
Your map reviews suck.
Imagine someone reviewing a song and then just going:
>This song is shit. The guy who did this song is shit. I was annoyed and slightly uncomfortable throughout the whole song. I was surprised at how shit this song is, really. I skipped most of the song because it made me feel like shit. But I consider it slightly less shit than the previous song. I wonder if the next song will also be shit, like this one?
Its basically you just autistically ranting on and on about how you disliked something without ever going into detail or explaining your thoughts behind it.

>those Ion Maiden threads on /v/
Please tell me we can discuss the game here when it comes out? It's just as bad if not worse than I was expecting, literal children screaming about sjws and women and no discussion of the game whatsoever.

>>5377184
Not retro.
Also sluts aren't allowed on /vr/!

>>5377187
who are you calling a slut?

>>5377184
Stop asking about it and just discuss it

>/v/

Why do you even go there, it had already been a shithole when /vr/ was created; at which point /vr/ felt like how /v/ was a decade ago. Just stay on /vr/, it's been going downhill since its creation but it hasn't reached the inevitable /v/ point yet

>>5377179
This game doesn't support pistolstart; in order to access 1/3 of the game I was interested in and actively enjoying to bigger or lesser extent, I was more or less forced to play through 2/3s of the game I, by and large, wasn't interested in, and more or less disliked. Also, I was not reviewing anything, I was simply ranting as I played through the game. The whole thing is all a strictly preliminary work for what I would consider a proper analysis of that part of it, that interested me in the first place (and which I now call "strand C").

>>5377184
>>5377187
Her original design looked better.

>>5377202
>I was not reviewing anything
Oh, you were just shitposting, then. Nevermind.

>>5376509
No.

>>5377272
Her original design was shit, and her current design is boring. That's one thing that IM could've done better imo.

>>5377385
This is her latest design, right?
I think it's okay, it's not bad, but it's not particularly good either. I wonder if they'll change the actual sprites in game to reflect the redesign, since she's no longer wearing blue.

>>5377390
Looks kind of generic, could use a bit of color.

>>5377395
I think I liked this old design more, gave me Robocop vibes.

>>5377390
>>5377405
I don't think there's a set design until we see her in-game sprite.

>>5377390
This one is slightly better than >>5377405
But still, in-game her design is all around boring. She has a plain face, a plain haircut and her expressions are weak. Since this is a futuristic dystopic metropolis a la judge dredd, they could have given her some futuristic hairdo/makeup and given her a slightly sadistic smile.
Actually, just putting a sadistic smile on her face sprite would be a simple thing and would already improve her character a lot.

>>5377461
But she's a cop not a junkie or anything. I think her more professional look is for the best.

>>5377198
>/v/ has been going to shit since after 2010
FTFY

>>5377523
I said, or meant, it had already been shit for a while when /vr/ was created

>>5377461
yeah her in-game face is so fucking boring and plain. its probably based on some librarian that dork hendricks had a crush on. its so fucking shit.

>>5377014
Hollywood Holocaust, Death Row, Toxic Dump and The Abyss are equally amazing.

Red Light District and Launch Facility are weak in comparison.

>>5377530
>>5377461
Seething :^)

>>5377158
The fuck is a strand?

>>5377606
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/strand#Noun_2
6. in particular.

So, what are the odds of Episode 5 ever being ported to eduke32?

>>5377938
0/100

>>5377939
how come? and if not ported then remade.

>>5377945
Because the EDuke32 devs are twats that hate anything that doesn't have to do with their project.

>>5377938
Isn't it already, safe for the new weapon and some other thing? Do your research, anon.

>>5377938
>>5377986
Episode 5 is closed-source, they can't "port" anything because there is no code to port. Someone needs to program the new enemies and weapons from scratch.

>>5377986
Yeah, guess who supervised Gearbox during the early days of World Tour, probably not the guys with years of experience working with Duke and Build who could have saved the coders a metric ton of reverse-engineering work and allowed Blum and Gray to get properly acquainted with Polymer, before Gearbox went the full retard way of coding a buggy totally not-Polymer from scratch in order to save on licensing fees.

>>5378106
makes me angry, why didn't they just fucking use eduke to make that 5th episode?

>>5378136
Even if they did, this wouldn't make the 5th episode properly supported on the public sourceport without a modicum of reverse-engineering.

>>5377986
???

Here's a World Tour in EDuke32 mod literally made by Hendricks266.

https://forums.duke4.net/topic/8966-wip-world-tour-eduke32-compatibility-stopgap/

Fucking stop making shit up already.

>>5378163
>last build almost 2 years old
so how well does this run?

>>5378163
I feel like one of the EDuke devs are here shilling amoungst us.

>>5370986
He was right.

>>5378279
Hendricks is here himself, no doubt. Lots of his duke4 cuckboys, too.

>>5378683
Well to be honest I immediately knew when he brought up some faggot that got banned recently from the Duke4 discunt server

>>5378279
>>5378683
>>5378706
/vr/ - gossip shit nobody cares about

>>5378096
Look, the new enemies and the new weapon is mostly shit, if one recreated the levels without them then that would be good enough.

I imagine EDuke32 could easily replicate the half-scale bosses as mini-bosses, and someone could come up with a much better final boss than the one we actually got.

>>5378948
>if one recreated the levels without them
??? They're still Build maps, you wouldn't need to recreate anything.

>I imagine EDuke32 could easily replicate the half-scale bosses as mini-bosses
Very possible, I don't remember right now.

>and someone could come up with a much better final boss than the one we actually got
That just takes some GAME.CON editing so it's super possible.

>>5375080
>>5375064
First of all, what exactly did he omit? His sources have all required headers, licences and credits for all people involved, including Hendricks.
Second of all, do I have to remind you how the people who made XBox 360 version that was officially sold on XBox marketplace never released its source code despite using jonof's port as a base, and Hendricks never said a word?
Both him and TX are fucking cancer to the community, sitting on a pile of betas, unreleased source codes and unfinished resources, not giving a shit about the community.

>>5379006
>>5372998

An update to an autism-heavy part of this writeup of mine on Lunar Reactor:
>>/vr/thread/S5276173#p5304564

Note: this was only tested under eduke32 r6907. I have no idea as to whether any numbers are the same under any of the officially patched versions of vanilla Duke3D.

Assuming, again, you start jumping while having 100 hp, 0 armor.

First jump, from ledge (1) to ledge (2) (see the picture from the link above):
- you back off the edge of the ledge (1)
- you CROUCH
- you take steroids
- while crouched you walk to the edge of the ledge (1), and, WHILE CROUCHED, jump towards ledge (2)
- this way, landing on ledge (2) you lose 11-15 hp (13 hp on average), leaving you with 85-89 hp (87 hp average)

Second jump (controlled fall), from ledge (2) to opening (3):
- you are on ledge (2)
- steroids are still ticking down
- you back off the edge of the ledge (2) facing rock protrusion, separating ledge (2) and opening (3)
- you CROUCH
- you walk towards the edge of the ledge (2) and you fall of it WITHOUT jumping, while falling you aircontrol-walk around the aforementioned rock protrusion, thus landing on the lip of the opening (3)
- this way you lose 25-29 hp (27 hp average), leaving you with 56-64 hp (60 hp average)

Third jump (fall) from the opening (3) to the bottom of the chasm:
- you get near the lowest point of the edge of the opening (3)
- you crouch
- you walk off the edge
- for damage numbers, see the picture attached to this post
- falling off the actual lowest point of the edge makes you lose 57-60 hp, which is different from +/- 2 for damage distribution on the previous two jumps, which might be some weird rounding issue, I dunno
- if you don't target the lowest point PRECISELY however, you get relieved of 57-61 hp (59 hp average), on the landing on the bottom of the chasm, leaving you with (-5)-7 hp (1 hp average).

>>5379184

only one jump is mandatory

+ the bottom of the chasm with the jetpack is a failsafe, they could have made it so if you fall you die, but instead decided to be more userfriendly

>>5379192
No, in my opinion, the bottom of the chasm, is the "personal touch" and the direct precursor to the observation room in the Spaceport level (see OP pic). Neither jetpack or said observation room are marked as secrets. The numbers checking out precisely for the bottom of the chasm (at least, going off eduke32), suggest heavy playtesting took place in order to ascertain that being the case.

Moreover, if you fall to the bottom of the chasm from anywhere whatsoever on the level, but the opening (3), you die even with 200 hp and 100 armor, it is only possible to survive landing there if you do it off the opening (3).

>>5379196
>not marked as secrets
not a good idea anyways to mark large open sectors as secret, since it doesn't register vertical placement. Ion Maiden gets around this by having a new secret trigger object.

I wish someone could bring a few of the mapping enhancements of IM to the newer duke ports, like their patrol/path AI, blocker sprites and Z-Death trigger.

>>5379209
If he wanted to make jetpack a secret, he could've PROBABLY (I don't know for sure) made a niche in the stone wall at the bottom of the chasm, tucked the jetpack there, and marked only that niche as a secret. That isn't the case though.

>>5379216
Also, there are sectors in observation room that lie outside of the shaft, leading to it, and one of them could, just as well, be marked as secret.

Also>>5366141
>health bottle and night vision googles (you already have from elsewhere on the level)
>take a rest and take a look
> = enjoy the view

>>5367034
What Spaceport teaches you in the context of the preceding Blum's levels is to take some of the things you find on the levels figuratively, not literally. In particular, it does so by giving you duplicates of the items (jetpack and night vision googles at the very least) you most likely already have and don't therefore need, serving thus purely as hints.

>>5379196
once you reach terminal velocity in Duke, you die no matter what HP levels you have.

>>5379248
Has anyone actually used the night vision goggles while chilling in the observation room?

>>5379414
Are there any hidden messages?

>>5379414
I tried, you don't seem to see anything different with them, just gives you slight greenish tint.

>>5379184
The last, I hope, piece of this particular autism.

I think, the picture to the left is self-explanatory enough.

Let us suppose that in DN3D, once upon development, falling damage didn't have that +/-2 random factor to it, while having otherwise largely the same jumping/falling code. Then, assuming eduke32 is accurate enough to vanilla game in terms of falling damage, executing first jump, as described in >>5379184, would cost you precisely 13hp, the second jump (controlled fall) would cost you precisely 27 hp, provided you land on the LEFT side on the opening, as depicted in the picture attached to this post. That leaves you with 60 hp, provided you started with 100 hp and no armor. If you jump from the left (higher) side of the opening, that will cost you exactly the remaining 60 hp, you die, if you jump from the right (lower) side of the opening, that costs you 59 hp, you live. The sole thing that allowed you to reach chasm floor alive under those precise specified conditions, provided aforementioned assumptions correspond to reality, is that the floor is skewed to allow for that 1 hp difference in falling damage. Otherwise, without random factors, falling damage numbers add up to 100.

I sure really genuinely hope to never do any more testing in this particular room ever again. Yep.

>>5379571
Post a video of you performing the entire sequence or GTFO, my head starts to hurt.

>>5379594
I'll GTFO then.

>>5366141
Any love for Nam/WW2GI here?
They were my first Build engine games, I have lots of found memories of kicking my brother's ass over LAN. Nam had unique multiplayer levels not found in the main episodes.

Setting up and detonating enough claymore mines to crash the game was fun too.

>>5379571

Golden Carnage is a masterpiece. It's better than Dark Side. Just sayin'.

I thought those 4 enemies I missed in Washington Wasteland wouldn't annoy me.. but so close to perfect

>>5380219
You will never impress Shelly.

>>5380223
>tfw I have 6 hours on the preview campaign alone and shelly still isn't impressed with me

Extreme Paintbrawl may be a shit game, but this fucking rocks. It sounds like Primus but even more insane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li5mXnHyg9w
And there's an electric guitar cover of Vivaldi's Spring too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dPKljLIPfk&

>>5380449
Extreme Paintbrawl gets a lot of shit for its soundtrack, but I unironically love it for how insane it is

>>5380449
Most excellent

>>5380449
https://youtu.be/HuR65m6Uwq8

>>5374191
Are the beta resources (as seen in your pic) publicly available? I can only find the LameDuke ones.

>>5381398
No. 3DR fucked up their chances to release them, and now it's up to Gearbox, who obviously don't give a shit.

>>5381410
Bitchford is some pretty hot water right now though, if we're really lucky, things could change for the better.

>>5367806
Yeah, I agree. After never playing Blood for a long time, but playing massive amounts of Duke and lately Ion Maiden, those cult dudes are fucking crazy.

Tiberius Station - Lunar Reactor - Dark Side is the best sequence in all of DN3D

Movie Set - Rabid Transit - Farenheit is the worst sequence in all of DN3D

>>5381593
Opinions Schmopinions

I don't know if it's because I play these maps since day one, but I love all of them for different reasons.

>>5381616
>I play these maps since day one

So have I. I used to think like everyone and think ep2 was the worst; by a thousand replays made me realize 3 is.

>>5381410
Well that sucks, I was hoping to get my hands on those Enforcer sprites..
>>5381432
So I heard, can only hope Gearbox sinks to the point where Randy willll be forced to sell the IP back to 3DR or someone more competent just to stay afloat, but that is very unlikely.

>>5381635
>I was hoping to get my hands on those Enforcer sprites..

Here you go bro, at least some of those.

>>5381638
Also this, an animation that made it's way to the final game, just completely unused. It's internally referred to as LIZMANFEEDING.

>>5381638
>>5381640
the ring was too much, but otherwise these are badass

>>5381692
They still have rings in the final.

>>5381696
Plus, here's an extra: a late enforcer, but with the intended flamethrower/laser gun (the one duke's holding). They were supposed to drop ammo for that weapon.

>>5381696
I know, just saying it clashes with the old design

They should have kept the old but getting rid of the rings, not the contrary

>>5381703
Dunno, I personally like it. I also like the red spots of the old sprite, but I can see why they changed it, since it still looked super cheesy sci-fi and what 3DR settled down with in the final version was more down to Earth sci-fi, if you know what I mean.

I still want to play the fuck out of the original Duke3D though, with the LameDuke sounds, cool post-modern/cyberpunkish design, TECHNOLOGY all the fucking place and no Duke one-liners to speak of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLaQeDEt7k0

Would have this been loved by most people, especially our own autist anon here rubbing his dick off map analysis, linear progression and gameplay balance? Probably not, but it sure as fuck would have been loved by me, because it's hitting all my right buttons, also the reason why I replay LameDuke every once in a while. It's buggy and "lame", yeah, but it's like playing a very intricate fever dream. I love it so much. And Duke2.

>>5381741
LameDuke is so Dark Forces

and I love Dark Forces

>>5381751
Amen, anon. Are you me by any chance? Dark Forces and Duke3D were my total FPS childhood. Even though I had Doom and SOD, I must have only played those for like a very brief moment before my dad took them off the 486 we were using. I know I must have played Doom (or I watched my dad play it) because I found the (pirated) floppies, and I can only recall small moments of SOD from when I was a little babby but Dark Forces and Duke3D I totally played for years on end since I was 4 and I'm deeply connected to them with many fond memories.

Those two games still inspire my design ideas to this day. Although I didn't mention it, LameDuke is also a pretty big inspiration for me. Pure unfiltered creativity spanned over 30+ maps in heavy need of cohesion.

I don't know if you can recall precisely what I'm talking about, but there are parts of LameDuke that look straight from Mission 3, 5 and 9 of Dark Forces. Mission 5 shares that grungy reddish palette and lots of elevator/crushing effectors, mission 3 shares that dirty look most of the textures have and also the sewer sheanigans from the first episode of LD, and 9 has some decorating textures/sprites that are the super sci-fi stuff I was getting at. While the final Duke3D wasn't exactly streamlined, Dark Forces and LameDuke sure leave you with a fuck lot more to figure out and explore.

>>5380223
I was actually autistic enough to go back.
D-do you think she's impressed now?

>>5381617
I don't have a fav episode, I just try not to ace more then one in the same sitting so I don't lose focus.

I hope to play DN3D co-op again some day, maybe the new ports will make this easier.

>>5381593
Best sequence is the entire LA Meltdown episode followed by Lunar Reactor and Dark Side pairing, and than the CriticL Mass and Derelict pairing.

Tiberius Station is shit.

>>5381870
>CriticL Mass

old random rooms stitched hapazardly together

>Derelict

copy paste: the map; shit texturing and architecture, unfun enemy placement

>>5367034
Could Fusion Station actually be a direct "spiritual sequel" to Toxic Dump, I wonder?

I mean, I have just replayed the beta version of the level (having first thing noclipped back into the sub). Not only combat and geometry detailing are similar (although Toxic Dump is definitely generally flatter looking, than Fusion Station, not that Fusion Station uses its verticality all that much in its gameplay) - well, Toxic Dump makes more emphasis at overwhelming the player from all possible directions to make him miss stuff, while Fusion Station, while being more obviously linear and contained, makes emphasis on being unpredictable through being inconsistent, introducing in later stages challenges you are not trained for in earlier stages. Toxic Dump even seems to introduce at least two tropes Fusion Station later uses to much bigger extent. For one, if you don't run, in the area with rising/falling water level, there is a jump you have to do, and a steroid bottle next to it. It is actually possible to complete the jump without using steroid bottle. On the other side, there is a series of three cracks, leading you back to the very beginning of the level. Having now the steroids bottle, you can use it to access that pair of secrets with "How did you get here?" inscription in one of them (and yes, you can get both without running with one steroid bottle). Fusion Station contains a similar sequence, although, provided you don't run, mandatory this time around.
A second trope that is extensively used in Fusion Station is the shootable button in the room with the crusher. Also, a timed sequence with the ventilation shaft behind one of the crushers also seems FusionStation-esque (and LunarReactor-esque as well).

That having been said, the point I thought Fusion Station was built around, experimentation (with the punchline being walking your back first through the timed door in a room with the devastator in order to preserve the steroid bottle), in my opinion,..

>>5382034
Hard agree on Derelict there. I had heard good things about it before I played it, but it was just so underwhelming, big for the sake of big, boring locales, bunch of assault troopers literally everywhere to get the enemy count up to give it that impression of a grand big level with loads of enemies.

Boring level.

>>5382034
>>5382076
Derelict is fun as fuck, you guys are out of your minds.

>>5382065
...still fully holds. What doesn't hold is that in no way does Toxic Dump follow from Tiberius Station gameplay-wise, so I guess, I'll drop this
> Tiberius Station -> ? -> Fusion Station
hypothetical indirect connection for the time being and concern myself only with direct links, when levels flow one into another in terms of their presumably intended playstyle, when put right next to each other. That having been said, I am definitely not 100% positive Fusion Station is, in fact, Toxic Dump's successor, not in the least due to being currently unable to formulate what Toxic Dump's point even is. That your opinion on what the level is is in no way what level actually is, because you are overlooking stuff? But what would that require the player to DO? Anyway, I guess, that particular point will become much clearer once (and if) I find the level Toxic Dump itself is the direct spiritual sequel to, but so far I am very much in doubt as to whether "Toxic Dump -> Fusion Station" is the thing or not. Moreover, that bit with three consecutive cracks also confuses me. If it is only there to make you waster resources and effort in order to get through just to realize you are at the beginning and subsequently ask, just why exactly that triple barrier was there (then you realize you can use steroids on those two niches turrets were in), it's one thing. If it's a reference to Lunar Reactor - which it frankly doesn't seem here to be, since there is no immediate payoff, then obviously Fusion Station can't be its successor.

Actually, come to think of Toxic Dump contained what seemed to me to be a point of no return (beta version of the map doesn't have that secret teleporter near its main exit to the middle of the map). If you don't run in the final tunnel in slime, it is also very difficult to jump back to secret exit if you happened to pass it (assuming you have no more steroids by that point). That implies irreversibility and accepting the facts the way they are.

This map related discussions have delved so deep into mega austism, even I feel alienated.

>>5382096
The map's fairly vicious playstyle could thus be an attempt to tire the player out of savescumming and any attempts to complete the level more or less perfectly.

Also, since mandatory jump, seemingly requiring steroids, can be completed without using them, and since all the underwater sections can be completed without scuba gear usage, although at a cost of a noticeable hp tradeoff at a couple of place, Toxic Dump, I think, can more or less be completed without item usage (final slime tunnel can present a difficulty, but the level gives you three atomic healths prior to it, and makes you complete half the tunnel without the boots anyway), although good luck doing that from pistolstart without using the portable medkit even once.

>>5382096
>Actually, come to think of Toxic Dump contained what seemed to me to be a point of no return
Meaning the giant cogs.

Anyway:
? -> Toxic Dump? -> Fusion Station -> Lunar Reactor -> Spaceport -> ?
I guess?

I still quite heavily personally dislike Toxic Dump, by the way.

I have also replayed Hollywood Holocaust beta earlier today. I couldn't link that level to any other levels I have tried to analyze so far, not even Tiberius Station which I initially thought might have been a direct spiritual successor to HH (my rationale was that Tiberius Station obviously presupposed you having excellent environment interaction skills at the start of the level, and HH seemed to teach you those). I have, however, come to quite interesting, in my opinion, conclusions. The actual punchline of the level seems to me to be the secret near the front entrance to the cinema, which requires you to jump off the palm tree. And the theme of the level, gameplay-wise seems, so far, to me to be questioning utility of the different elements comprising your immediate surroundings - and subsequently rechecking your assumptions in regard to said surroundings. Like using explosive stuff for killing enemies (point in case, arcade room) - yes, I know, it's also a Doom trope, it could still have different meaning here. Questioning what those shadows on the floor might be as you enter the cinema having blown up the front entrance.
Skill it seemingly assumes you to have at the start of the level is sticking your nose whenever possible. Like the very start of the level, you turn around, there is a box, you look behind the box, there is a clip of ammo. It would be a little detail in itself, was it not a part of a very consistently running theme on the level. What level actually TEACHES you to stick your nose whenever possible, I have currently no idea.

>>5374648
>but the way you do it is like modern art review, you interpret things and tell what you see and feel, but that is nothing more than what YOU see and feel, it doesn't mean you got into the designer's head and that all of those were intentional design.

Thank you. This is something I needed to argue against some e-celeb shilling on /v/, thank you so much for putting into words.

>>5382167
>I have also replayed Hollywood Holocaust beta earlier today.

You mean 0.99? Isn't it pretty much the same as the final?

>>5382179
More or less. Seems to have a bit more enemies, though.

>>5381593
>Rabid Transit - Fahrenheit
I thought these were good.

>>5382205
I did too... long ago.

>>5382209
Episode 3 aged the worst of all the classic episodes. The main problem is that it never really escalates. It never really sets a goal, never felt like a proper mission with adventure and journey feel.

Levelord said once in an interview he doesn't care about single player. That was exposed pretty obviously in both of his episode 2 and episode 3 maps. Incubator or the secret levels in episode 2 really felt like episode 3 maps set in space.

Compare that to episode 1, which is clearly a mission, an adventure. There are scripted sequences, interesting areas, a clear movement from A to B. Not to mention the well crafted, believable locations. Episode 2 takes a step back, but levels like Spaceport, Lunar Reactor or Dark Side clearly kept the canonic spirit of the game.

Episode 3 is a hot mess. Not just the lack of adventure, but many of those levels look like something made in a week. Some of them were reportedly planned as small deathmatch arenas glued into singleplayer levels, like Movie Set. Others were just cut from a better version to keep framerate high.

The episode has some good levels of course, like Flood Zone, LA Rumble or Freeway. But it didn't have a meaty, epic, adventurous penultimate journey, like Toxic Dump/The Abyss, Dark Side, Derelict or even Golden Carnage. One such level is really missing.

With all that shit said, the episode has something that is clearly above everything else in the game: the levels look very coherent from start to end, the visuals never really bump like in episode 4, there are those nice running gags like the messages on dark walls.

It's not a bad episode, it's just the worst of the classic ones.

>>5382089
Agreed. It has a very nice laid back atmosphere, and a unique theme. Not to mention those awesome 3D areas with great sector over sector use. It was the only level in the game that was built in the same style as the trio of Death Row, Toxic Dump and Launch Facility. Pretty much an episode 1 level trapped in episode 4. And I don't mind the overwhelming number of Liztroops. They are frequently supported by turrets, commanders and especially newbeasts.

I agreed with NESfag's analysis on the annoying door sounds and the mandatory lightning damage though. The level should have supported more ammo and health early on.

>>5382209
Like you are some authority on what's good or bad

>>5382403
Episode 2 is the worst

>>5382426
I think Ep2 is ok.

>>5382065
>Could Fusion Station actually be a direct "spiritual sequel" to Toxic Dump, I wonder?

In terms of leveldesign, no. They are completely different in their looks and their atmosphere. FS could be a good sequel to The Abyss theme wise (as it ends in a mothership), but certainly wouldn't make any sense as a straight sequel to TD.

In terms of puzzle solving, there are similarities. They are both gauntlet levels, with TD moves you horizontally from nasty puzzle to nasty puzzle, whie FS does the same, but around a gargantuan vertical platform.

>>5382167
You may be analyzing this more than the people who made the maps.

>>5382437
In terms of looks, their respective visual themes non-withstanding, their levels of detailing (walls, etc.) are similar.

But yeah, I've meant "spiritual successor" primarily gameplay-wise.

>>5366141
Which map/mod is this? IS from duke 3d?