/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5336767
ridge racer 4 and final fantasy IX pushed the PS1 to their limits iirc

evo space adventures was atrocious

>>5336767
Say whatever you want, but that's more unique textures for similar objects than modern games have.

>ugliest
Tekken

>>5336767
Best: Ocarina of Time, Banjo Kazooie
Worst: FFVII

>>5337034
You’re delusional

>>5337892
Yes, but that's beside the point.

a lot of the early 3d accelerated fps don't hold up as well as the raycasted fps, the textures get really blurry while in doom it doesn't look that blocky

>>5338261
quake is a shit game that becomes brilliant when you speedrun

>>5336767
>Beautiful
Banjo-Kazooie
Tekken 3
Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask
FFIX

>worst
Tekken 1
FFVII
Driver 1

>>5336767
The most beautiful for me is Ecco Defender of the Future. It was the first 3D console game that to me had graphics that I thought held up well to what could be achieved with 2D.

The ugliest is harder because there's so much ugly to choose from. Dragon Quest VII stands out in my memory as being particularly awful though.

Always liked the way Outcast looked.

>>5338272
Care to explain. Never played Quake as a kid but have considered trying it lately.

>>5336767
>beauty
N64: OoT (I was trying to think of one that hadn't been listed yet, but this really is it)
PSX: Chrono Cross
PC: Unreal Tournament

>beast
N64: Superman 64
PSX: Bubsy 3D
PC:

>no Shenmue mentions
plebs

>>5338319
Ignore what he said, it's garbage. Quake is a great game but doesn't have any particular speedrunning qualities. The reason it's been speedrun a lot is based on Quake's popularity.

>>5336767
How about Bomberman 64 for beautiful?

Ugly? I'll go with Vortex on the SNES.

>>5337893
Naw he was right, you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>5338325
Shenmue was neat but not very beautiful for a Dreamcast game.

>>5336767
I always loved Tobal style.

>>5338294
Driver 1 can be plain but is far from being ugly though, I can think in shit like Andretti Racing or Peak Performance being way worse than it

>>5336767
best: gl_nearest_mipmap_linear
worst: n64

>>5338413
>implying modern games don't just recycle the same texture over and over which is quite clear when you actually look at the environments.
No u.

>>5336767
>No mention of Mega Man Legends
Probably one of the best looking low-poly games

Most beautiful: Superman 64
Most ugliest: Ocarina of time

>>5338529
Finally a person of good taste

>>5338508
Lol I don't think you even know what modern games look like. Can you show even one example where two games from different companies share the same texture assets?

>>5338501
Best: Windows 98 SE
Worst: split between 32X and most Atari Jaguar games.

>>5337880

>>5338556
>two games from different companies share the same texture assets
No you dickhead, that's not what I meant at all. That wouldn't even be possible because that's straight up copyright infringement.

>>5338578
>That wouldn't even be possible
Hundreds of asset flips say otherwise.

>>5338420
It has it's moments, especially the last disk of 2.

>>5338509
This and JGR are the most visually pleasing retro 3D games for me.

>>5338317
I really liked the unique look of the software renderer.

>>5337880

>>5338578
Then what the fuck did you mean?

>>5338421
Block is beautiful

Spawn was beautiful.

>>5338697

>>5338664
That they recycle the same textures in a game which looks fucking stupid when you see that the pattern of the walls keep repeating, for example.

>>5338704
Ooohhh. Well that's just constraints of processing power and budget for the game. It's to be expected, but I think it was much worse in 5th and 6th gen than it is now.

>>5338421
>>5338693
>Look at these screenshots
>'boy this looks like toriyamas work'
>it actually is

i was legitimately surprised

Best:
Virtua fighter 3
Scud race
Daytona 2
SoulCalibur DC

Worst:
Tekken
Toshinden
Radiant silvergun

>>5336767
Hey, I wonder: PS1 can easily handle transparency, while the Saturn VERY often ends up making some type of mesh transparency in one way or another. But what about the N64?

>>5338796
And for that matter, what about the 3DO?

>>5338783
pleb

BUMP OF LIFE

>>5336767
grim fandango.
not the most appealing game visually, but the art style ties in perfectly with low-poly 3d models.

Best: Ecco: Defender of the Future (DC)
Worst: 2Xtreme (PSX)

>pic fucking related, but it was even worse in motion
Embarrassment of a 3D game, worse than mode-7 graphics with twitchy, jerky sprites. It gave me a headache even back when it was “modern”

>>5339048
Why Lucasarts, why did you stop making graphic adventure games after this one?

>>5338568
No, I just have good taste and can tell the difference between colorful detailed early 3d from textureless polygons.

>>5338568
>>5339275
I'm pretty much of a Nintendrone, but FFVII looks fantastic come on. Pretty much on par with OoT.

>>5339275
>textureless polygons

Ironically, both OoT and Banjo make heavy use of textureless polygons, because the N64 had as much texture ram as it had games.

>>5336828
>Ridge Racer 4
This. Game is fucking beautiful

>>5339275
Is this a dig at the n64 or what?

>>5338702
>>5338697
That looks like SHIT.

>>5336767
Quake 1 has aged well by merit of being aesthetically almost totally unique. There really is no FPS that looks quite like it.

>>5336767
World Driver Championship

It wasn't finally released as a "retro" game (though it still worked at 240p) but I would say this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANmY2QtZnIM

>>5339284
only during battles which are snoozefests

ugliest is pic related

>>5339789
Prerendered scenarios look great too.

>>5338261
Doom is not raycasted btw

>>5339796
So do films, both recorded beforehand.

I think Ocarina of Time is the best looking 3D game of the 90s, thanks to its lighting and art style. Obviously not as technically advanced as most late 90s PC stuff, but when has that mattered? The cutscenes also have really good cinematography, for lack of a better term.

SA1

The character animation are garbage, but everything else is extremely good for an early Dreamcast release.

>>5339297
>Ironically, both OoT and Banjo make heavy use of textureless polygons
I don’t know why people keep saying this when there’s heavier use o untextured polygons on PS1. Hell, Spyro and Tobal are the kings of untextured polys, though for different reasons. Not saying that’s a bad thing though. It’s a legit technique

>the N64 had as much texture ram as it had games
N64 texture cache 4 KB
PS1 texture cache 2 KB

>>5338783
>SoulCalibur DC
Yep, still holds up.

>>5336767
N64>PS1=Saturn>3DO>ECS Amigas>Acorn Archimedes>>Jaguar>>OCS Amigas=Atari ST>>>>32X

>>5342298
I wonder how well the N64 handles transparency in 3D games? Is it as good as the Playstation, similar to the Saturn, or better than the Saturn but less ample than the PS1?

>>5343670
It does proper transparencies, it just does transparencies very dirty because of how the system looks with all the filtering. Looks fine, especially combined with frequent fog.

>>5343670
Transparency is ALWAYS a fillrate killer and if you stack multiple transparent polys, the N64 begins to struggle.

>>5342294
based slumpposter

Banjo-Kazooie is up there. Same with DK64, honestly. I always liked how Kirby 64 looked, too. Resident Evil, as well. Silent Hill to an extent.

To this day, I can't get over how ugly FFVII is and how people can defend it's visuals. It's garbage in almost every respect. Also, Ocarina of Time graphics aren't all they're cracked up to be either. Not ugly, though. Netter than FFVII in any case

I've always been impressed by Vagrant Story. With none of the cutscenes or environments prerendered you get some fine looking stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiZduGodAmE

>>5343670
>I wonder how well the N64 handles transparency in 3D games? Is it as good as the Playstation
N64 supports alpha blending while the Playstation doesn't. This means that on the N64 each texel / pixel can have a different % of opacity while on Playstation the opacity level has to be uniform across the entire polygon. This enables the N64 to have more realistic looking transparencies than Playstation. A common problem with transparencies on Playstation is that the uniform blending gives transparent polygons a jello / jelly effect.

The N64 does have one disadvanage here though. The Playstation supports additive blending which is fantastic for explosions and fire effects (pixels get 'added' up to extreme white which looks great for fire). N64 technically supports it as well but it's a half-baked implementation without RGB value clamping, so you can actually corrupt the framebuffer by using it incorrectly. Hence additive blending was rarely used on N64 but quite common on Playstation.

>>5343673
>it just does transparencies very dirty because of how the system looks with all the filtering
No that's wrong. If transparencies look dirty, that's just because the resolution of the texture is low, not because of filtering. To be fair though, putting an alpha channel into textures does consume up memory space so it does mean in certain situations the texture resolution has to be lower.

>>5343676
>Transparency is ALWAYS a fillrate killer and if you stack multiple transparent polys, the N64 begins to struggle.
Yeah this is correct, transparency is the enemy of fill rate. Though at least on N64 you can more or less accurately stack lots of transparencies together because it supports destination alpha. Something like that won't look very realistic on Playstation.

>>5336767
Freescape titles are among the most primitive 3D you are going to see given that it's among the first 3D game engines used in consumer titles. As primitive as they are I think they exude charm and offer a stark, lonely atmosphere that fits perfectly in all 6 games to use the engine.

>>5344095
Is that ray-traced Wolf 3d or true 3d?

>>5338325
>>5338420
shenmue had the best interiors. still more detail than most modern games

>>5344104
It's true 3D friend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freescape

>Most beautiful game
"Zelda!"
>Most complex game
"Zelda!"
>Best videogame
"Zelda!"
>Most hardcore game
"Zelda!"
>Best plot
"Zelda!"
>Most influential
"Zelda!"

This level of delusion. You come here just to talk about zelda, right?

>>5337034
lmfao. No.

>>5344160
>more detail than most modern games
You need to expand your gaming beyond minecraft and gacha.

>>5338308
I was going to say Ecco, too. Beautiful game and it still holds up today but could really use a second analog stick for spacial awareness.

Best: Gran Turismo 1 and 2
Worst: WrestleMania 2000

>>5336767
Front mission 2 is one of the best looking psx games I think

Best: Quake
Worst: Tekken

>>5344160
>>5344512
He has a point in that there are magnitudes more games being made these days. Many of which are small projects or have limited graphics for other reasons. So it is possible those interiors are more detailed than most or at least many modern games. Modern games trying for realism like that blow it out of the water though.

>>5339298
Too bad ridge racer fucking sucked and basically had no physics to speak of. Overrated as hell.

>>5344792
You've seen nothing then

>>5344792
bruh... you are just... dumb.

Not everyone loved DK64, but it has some of the most beautiful visuals.

>>5344854
They're fun as fuck though. R4 in particular.

>all this hating on Tekken
I mean Kuma looks ridiculous but the rest isn't that bad

>>5344854
fuck off simfag

>>5344865
Well fucking post something.

>>5344879
Oh god how does the arcade version look worse than the port

>>5344879
>the rest isn't that bad
Oh, it does.

I mean, this piece of crap was released after Virtua Fighter 2. It's atrocious even for 1994.

>>5345241
They look almost exactly the same. Some characters had a costume change in the port (Law, Ganryu), as some textures are in a lower resolution on Playstation.

Tekken 1 had no art direction at all. Just ugly textures rendered from ugly high poly 3D models slapped on bad low poly 3D models.

>>5336767
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7411107,7.4303913,3a,75y,294.94h,81.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVlwEUkqggsrXJTy1Ho2J0g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

double "how time has passed" effect for me, graphic fidelity and life itself have quite changed
Which game is it? I remember getting Formula One 97 on the Playstation solely to see how well they had recreated Monaco (live close by)

>>5345250
Cry more fgt ;^)

nights into dreams

>>5345250
>I mean, this piece of crap was released after Virtua Fighter 2. It's atrocious even for 1994.
I think this is quite interesting, Tekken 1 is such a cheap and nasty looking game, yet Tekken 2 had huge amounts of thought and effort put its aesthetics. Is there any interviews or information anywhere on the development process of it?

>>5338294
>Beautiful
>N64 zeldas
pick one.
There are select few N64 games that aren't ugly, and those are Megaman Legends and DrSlump, courtesy of heavy anime stylization.

I think I'd go with >>5338317
Outcast not only looks good, but it's also very well visually designed. Only other game on par with it in terms of design is Unreal.
Other than that - Ecco on Dreamcast.

>>5344160
>>5338325
For all the details Shenmue put out, it looks fucking ugly - as all 3D games that ried to do realism at that time, aside from racing games (since machines offer a lot more leeway in the design than people and locations)

spyro the dragon

>>5345618
Too bad the pop-in is bloody terrible and no way to remove it even on emulator

>>5345615
> Is there any interviews or information anywhere on the development process of it?
Well, there's some renders

>>5339920
>it doesn't count because I say so!!!!

Is this the most hideous 3D model ever made?

>>5345646
Not him but To be fair, OP's post clearly means teal time 3d games not pre-rendered graphics.

>>5336767
*ahem*

>>5345250
That's beautiful.

>>5345850
The topology is even better.

>>5346101

>>5346105

>>5336767
Soul: Virtua Fighter 1 and 2
Soulless: Tekken 1 and 2

>>5347115
Sales: Tekken
Salesless: VF

>>5347121
Virtua Fighter 1 and 2 sold better than Tekken 1 & 2.

>>5336767
quake unironically still looks good running at 1080p, mip maps off, texture filtering nearest neighbor and render interpolation off

>>5342294
Goddamnit I need to finish playing that.

>>5337880
Yet Ocarina has some of the worst pre-rendered backgrounds ever and FFVII has the best ones.

>>5349221
The thread is about real time graphics not pre renders

>>5349301
OoT is still pretty ugly, especially considering it's a 1998 game.

>>5339146
Yeah, they had many great games before this then fell flat on their face (budget issues after the prequels maybe?)

>>5349320
looks pretty good to me

>>5349407
>that dated lighting
>scene so dark most of the time you can't see shit
>weird mix of textured polygons and vertex coloring
>all that blurriness thanks to bilinear filtering over low and inconsistent texture resolution
Yeah, looks great.

>>5349562
It has better cinematic-style real time 3D rendering than pretty much everything released that year, perhaps only with the tiniest exceptions.

>>5349407
hard to make out anything in that one. also nice letter boxing and pillar boxing.

>>5349320
Ohh I agree 100%. I thought it was even ugly when it was new, though to be fair I thought that of most real time 3D games back then.

>>5349567
Sure, the rendering is impressive for the time, but the question is does it look good? Baked lighting like in Quake or basically no lighting like in Dr. Slump or Megaman Legends just has aged much more gracefully like the realtime lighting in OoT and looks beautiful even today.
The point of the texture resolution still stands separately from that. Having a consistent texture resolution will be far more visually pleasing than having it be all over the place and higher texture resolution is of course generally better, especially with filtering. Quake is once again a good example for this.

>>5349576
>Baked lighting like in Quake or basically no lighting like in Dr. Slump or Megaman Legends just has aged much more gracefully like the realtime lighting in OoT
Wait so those games don't have dynamic lighting and OoT does .. but OoT's lighting is "dated"?

>The point of the texture resolution still stands separately from that. Having a consistent texture resolution will be far more visually
wtf? OoT doesn't always have good texturing but it's not a problem with the Ganon fight. There's barely any of the blurry magnification that you get when you combine texture filtering with a low resolution texture.

The blurriest texture in that whole video is the ground, and only when it's been viewed at a steep angle. That's problem caused by a lack of anisotropic filtering and no PC card available in 1998 supported even support that feature at playable speeds.

>>5349589
>but OoT's lighting is "dated"?
Yeah, remember that I'm only arguing aesthetics here. Dynamic lighting from the late 90s looks like shit nowadays. Static lighting or games devoid of any lighting can still look good. Perhaps dated is the wrong word for this, I dunno.

>There's barely any of the blurry magnification that you get when you combine texture filtering with a low resolution texture
Are you serious? The "sharpest" textures in that video seem to be ganons face and necklace and even those are blurry as shit.

>>5349623
>The "sharpest" textures in that video seem to be ganons face and necklace and even those are blurry as shit
As I said, there's none of that blurry maginification in the video except for the ground (which is due to no anistropy as I mentioned). All you are really bitching about is that the textures aren't higher-res.

>>5349630
>All you are really bitching about is that the textures aren't higher-res
A perfectly reasonable complaint.

>>5349637
In this instance it's fine for the era and the resolution its running at.

>>5346101
>>5346105
>>5346109
>the shadows were polygons
Mind fucking blown

>>5349768
nothing out of the ordinary t b h

>>5349768
What the fuck did you think they were? Lol

>>5338697
>>5338702
It looks worse than Silent Hill.

>>5336767
Best: Shenmue II
Worst: Virtua Fighter

>>5336767
Now I see why people were so uptite about not letting more modern games in /vr/. It makes for boring threads. When I think of beautiful 3D fro /vr/ I think of games like this: https://youtu.be/l7CPSU69DAI

>>5339146
they did Escape From Monkey Island after GF

>>5338325
Shenmue is amazingly beautiful, still can't believe such a level of detail was achieved, though I think it'd be a bit unfair to compare it to the 5th gen games being mentioned here.

>>5338421
We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these color TVs

I'm going to get shit for this but Harry Potter had some nice scenarios, even though the faces were all goofy as fuck.

>>5345628
Never noticed it.

>>5338805
Basically works in a similar was as Saturn but without the mesh transparency bug, by warping 2d textures.
>>5338796
N64 has a real 3D gpu from sgi with loads of effect support, not really comparable to any other console before it. It's problem is that it's stuck in an under-powered system with not enough ram and bus width.

>>5349929
If only the N64DD wasn't delayed so much, and used either actual non-proprietary Zip Disks or VCDs instead.

>>5349854
>that vertex distortion
It's like I'm tripping hard.

>>5349854

>>5336767
>most beautiful
lots of late 90s and early 2000s PC, Dreamcast and arcade games, things like Dead or Alive 2, Outcast, Le Mans and Soul Calibur still look appealing.

>What's the ugliest?
early 5th gen stuff, especially the ones with lots of dark gray or dark brown textures with nearest neighbor interpolation and bad draw distance on PS1 / Saturn or the smeared visuals of many N64 games.

>>5338321
>PSX: Bubsy 3D
it's a terrible game, but it doesn't look that bad for a 1997 PS1 game imo, the cartoon artstyle and textureless scenery are easier on the eyes than more complex stuff released around the same time. It's surprisingly highres too.

Flat shaded polygons such as Model 1 is a very pleasing aesthetic that has aged like wine

>>5343827
Vagrant story is the grayest, blandest, most lifeless looking big name game of that era. People still saying it looks great really is an amazing achievement of late 90s marketing.

Is this the consolefag only thread? Best looking retro games are Unreal and Quake 3.

>>5349816
holy FUCK

>>5336767
Old 3d games look horrible

>>5350297
>wine left open in a hot car

Early pre-rendered 3D Saturn games are the ugliest of all-time. Thinking of games like Torico and D. This shit is legit terrifying.

>>5351892
Still better than 32X and most 3d Jaguar games.

>>5351892
D is an old Dos or maybe windows game. It was ported to the Saturn.

>>5351892
Wasn't it FMV anyway?

>>5351892
Give it some time, it grows on you.

>>5336767
>ugliest
Almost anything on N64

>>5351892
You've seen nothing, pleb fag

>>5352490
>PS1tard convieniently ignoring wobbly graphics on many of his fav console's 3d games, particularly Early on.

>>5352651
Like, for example? They were only visible on old emulators in high resolution mode.
Besides, it's easier to deal with few artifacts that with overall shallow design.

>>5336767
Everquest is a mixed bag, but it has some great looking zones.