/vr/ - Retro Games

Jarpigs for people who would rather be playing Elder Scrolls.

The gameplay is deep .

For real though.

Are these games decently balanced? My only experience with these kind of games was FF2 and that game was a mess.

>>5331080
I loathe TES but SaGa is my favorite Jarpig, it's more like a classic Ultima but with much better combat

>>5331112
No

>>5331112
Starting with RS2 the games are balanced really well in the sense you can always find a route through the game and a strategy that offers a high rate of survival, but also you can get completely assguttered if you get lazy or unlucky and let your guard down. In that way they are as hard as you make them be, but you can quicksave constantly while trying things out and learning about the game so getting killed and then devising a method to kill what killed you before is somewhat exhilarating.

Is there a good starting point? I own frontier 2 but I've never played it. Fuck I think it's still sealed

>>5331209
SaGa Frontier or RS3 are the best places to start, after RS3 you can play RS2, after SF you can play SF2.

You COULD start with RS2 or SF2 or Minstrel Song but they're a little bit hardcore.

>>5331074
It's esoteric, bold, has replayability. Pretty much the posterboy for alternative JRPGs.

It's remarkable how Square, the vanilla ice cream of the JRPG business, has been making these on the side over the years.

>>5331889
>It's remarkable how Square, the vanilla ice cream of the JRPG business, has been making these on the side over the years.

They probably wouldn't be if Kawazu didn't fight tooth and nail for them.

>>5333671
God bless him for that.

>>5331074
I like the open-worldness but I wouldn't mind a journal system or something incase you load an old as hell save file.

>>5333671
>They probably wouldn't be if Kawazu didn't fight tooth and nail for them.

He didn't have to fight anything, Kawazu was the 2nd biggest project manager in Square and his team was as big as the FF team up until FFVI.

It's a JRPG for people who hate JRPGs

>>5331080
You're not wrong.

>>5331227
RS3 has a dogshit fan translation. I tried to play it a couple years ago and got maybe a third through the game before I had to give up, the poor translation made an already labyrinthine game essentially unbeatable. RS2 has an official English release on the Switch which I plan to pick up eventually.

>>5334130
I don't remember scrambled text other than the starting inn, and I had a blast playing through the game.

>>5334324
this guy gets it, the saga series is a meme and doesn't hold a candle to the greats

>>5334408
Grandia and BoF are generic af. Grandia II has the blandest story ever in a story-driven JRPG.

>>5334130
he probably played the wrong translate

>>5334408
what a garbled mess of nonsense shit opinions

>>5334324
such a terrible attempt at comedy when SALSA was right in front of you the entire time

>>5334246
>>5334493
I should have been more specific — it’s not broken, it’s just strangely worded and translated in Engrish at times. There’s two fan translations afaik, one that’s decent but only goes for the first hour of the game or so, and one that’s kind of shut but covers the whole game. Naturally I went for the latter.

>>5334408

>Xeno

Your are a whore among the nations.

>>5334408
>BOF above Atelier and SaGa

>>5335242
well, yeah. BoF is a classic, those two are not.

>>5335427
SaGa predates BOF by four years on the gameboy, and established most of its most recurring concepts in the first game, including lifepoints, the stat system, monster evolution, and robot parts.

>>5335434
that doesn't mean it's good. Wizardry established a lot of mechanics and it's a big mess.

>>5335427
>BoF
>classic
>SaGa
>Not a classic
You might be kind of right when it comes to Atelier, but SaGa is one of the fathers of the genre and a major influence in the general scene when it comes to Japan.
BoF is on the same tier as Atelier, and even so, it's been dead since a long time, not to mention how it only has five entries, or six if you consider that supposed mainline mobage which even Capcom tries to make everyone forget, even Atelier has more entries and a bigger name nowadays.

Just to put matters into perspective, all those Capcom online games like Monster Hunter Frontier or DDO have more SaGa collaborations than they have BoF cameos, not even Capcom itself considers BoF a classic. it's by far their less acknowledged franchise.

>>5335427
BoF doesn't even get good until the third game in the series.

>>5335715
let's be real here, none of the three series are particularly noteworthy today. And SaGa wasn't a favorite even in the past.

>>5335730
>none of the three series are particularly noteworthy today
>And SaGa wasn't a favorite even in the past.
Both are wrong, but given how your only argument is /v/ tier garbage there's nothing to discuss here.

>>5335715
That said, Dragon Quarter is an underrated gem.

>>5331074
honestly its autism
they're a dream for min maxing experimental retardation just to say you did it and it worked.

>>5335436
>etrian is good on this list
>wizardry isn't good though
okay einstein

>>5335839
because it's better in every way? Wizardry has awful design, you can't even see which cardical direction you're looking at without going through multiple screens. Meanwhile EO has fantastic combat, music and level design.

>>5335730
>Famitsu has Tactics Ogre and two other Yasumi Matsuno games on their top list
>Not a single Fire Emblem game
Fire Emblem > Tactics Ogre my ass

>>5335834
Unfortunately, Dragon Quarter is a fantastic game that is not for casuals and contributed to exposing how many people in the BoF fanbase are shallow players incapable of appreciating a great game and a great entry in the series only because it dared shake things up a little bit.

It's funny because SaGa also did the same thing that generation with Unlimited, both games got an undeserved bashing and exposed most of their respective fanbases.

>>5335879
I don't think SaGa had any semblance of a sizable American fanbase at the time for Unlimited to have exposed anything.

I'd rather just play DnD or Zelda or something with action gameplay or in depth mechanics and fully immersive roleplaying. Having an open world branching story but limited turn based combat is so awkward. The level scaling is also really gay. It's why the modern Elder Scrolls aren't as good as they could be.

Maybe if the next Saga game was an action rpg like Dark Souls or Breath of the Wild, I'd be more open to it. This series is just not for me. It fells watered down DnD.

>>5335879
Unlimited is shit because it's mostly random and it's slower than molasses.

Don't try to pretend Unlimited is some hidden gem just because you like to be contrarian, Minstrel's Song is the only SaGa on the PS2 that's worth a shit.

>>5335886
I'm not talking about the american fanbase since 90% of the fanbases for JRPGs are insignificant out of Japan.
>>5335986
>Unlimited is shit because it's mostly random and it's slower than molasses.
Neither of those are true.
Minstrel Song also has more RNG and is slower than Unlimited, but congratulations on proving my point.

>>5335995
We're just going to have to disagree. I own both games still and played both in the past year, and I do not agree that Minstrel is slower than Unlimited. Minstrel's combat is also deeper and leagues more fun.

Minstrel's big chunk of slowdown lies in how obtuse the whole game is, which in itself is a pain in the ass but at least it's not moving stationary pieces on a board via RNG.

>>5336000
>I do not agree that Minstrel is slower than Unlimited
It is factually slower than Unlimited, no matter how hard you try to deny this, both battle animations and general navigation is faster in Unlimited.
>Minstrel's combat is also deeper
Minstrel's song combat is not deeper than Unlimited, it's just different and it has its own flaws.
>it's not moving stationary pieces on a board via RNG
So you're just talking out of your ass, as I said, you're one of those people who got exposed by Unlimited, especially since you prove you have no idea of what you're talking about, or you're just lying to prove a point on an anonymous imageboard.
But let's hear it, what part of moving throughout maps has RNG in Unlimited?

I just started saga frontier (robot scenario) and I'm honestly lost as fuck
I am in koorong and I've been in the sewers/caves for about three hours and still don't know what should I do.
How shameful is using a guide in this game?

>>5336030
>I am in koorong and I've been in the sewers/caves for about three hours and still don't know what should I do.
Just explore, eventually you'll find your way through the main quest, also, since you're in Koorong I'd suggest you to check the apartments in there, there's a computer you can check with some relevant information about T260g's quest.
>How shameful is using a guide in this game?
As shameful as you want it to be, I'd personally do not recommend using a guide to not ruin the games' surprises in terms of content, but if you really are that frustrated just use them, more power to you if they make you enjoy the games more.

>>5336036
It's okay, since the fights aren't that difficult I guess I'll keep exploring.
once I get a bit more of plot in that computer I'll get hooked again

>>5336046
You're just at the beginning of the game and T260G is a mecha, which is by far the most powerful race in the game, so her mecha centric campaign will be probably a lot easier than most outside of two or three spikes in difficulty.
Do go back in the main street and check the apartments, you can find them beyond that chicken NPC.
Oh and be wary of bats in Shingrow once you get there.

>>5335852
why exactly should your character have insight as to what cardinal direction their facing in a dungeon.
why should they even know outside without knowledge of the stars.
why shouldnt you have a compass
why the fuck are you shit talking the greatest spell of all time "true north"

It was a good design decision, you're just a casual retard who thinks grinding alone is good.
>fantastic combat
lel
>level design.
capital LEL

>>5335852
forgot to mention the most basic fucking point which was not knowing the direction you are facing intrinsically made the amazing level design in some games possible. you're weak like baby and probably never played wizardry 4 much less any of them.

etrian literally has dumber mechanical level design from a game 30 years its predecessor.

>>5336058
Honestly I never even set foot in the wrecked ship without visiting the other ruins and grabbing some of that sweet anti-sonic equipment laying on the floor.

>>5336140
>>5336146
I'm gonna be contrarian and say that both Etrian Odyssey and Wizardry aren't that good for having flaccid plots and being really just super fucking grindy without much strategy other than
>do the best shit in every fight
I mean lets be honest the main strategy in both games is building your party outside of battle, once you're in there shit just happens because you've already won and it's boring.

A better game than both with an actual interesting dungeon with interesting puzzles is motherfucking BRANDISH

>>5336179
ur not wrong about brandish

>>5336179
Which Brandish games are the best?

>>5336179
Brandish is a great series but you know it's a completely different game from both those blobbers, so comparisons are pretty much useless.

>>5336205
Brandish is a completely different game from almost anything and that's what makes it better

>>5336205
SMT Nocturne and DDS already evolved the blobber to the point of being more interesting to look at and actually interesting in battle, so Etrian Odyssey ends up actually being about drawing maps or some shit. It's a good game but it sure ain't great.

>>5336217
Nocturne and DDS aren't blobbers though. They're non-blobber dungeon crawlers, for better or worse.
I'd go so far as to say they're separate types of games as well, due to dungeon structure being so fundamentally different.

I wish Nocturne and DDS would have been blobbers, really. Because I really, really, fucking love blobbers. But they're still good enough as is.

>>5336217
>so Etrian Odyssey ends up actually being about drawing maps or some shit.

Well that was the main selling point since the beginning.

>>5336237
how do you feel about king's field and shadow tower?

>>5335427
>BoF is a classic
My stinky shits are also a classic...?

Selling strategy guides.

>>5335879
the hate against Unlimited was 100% FF fags pretending to be Saga fans and then getting outraged at what they got.

>>5336710
>was 100% FF fags pretending to be Saga fans

I don't think it was necessarily that, but rather just a lot of naive people thinking everything Square put out would be just like Final Fantasy.

>>5335965
There is no level scaling in SaGa games.

>>5336196
All of them are great. Just don't play the shitty console ports from the 90s.

>>5336710
Really? Because I'm pretty sure the hate is from it being a shit game even for SaGa standards.

You don't have to like every game in the series to be a fan, get off your high horse.

>>5337941
>what is Battle Rank

>>5338137
So only the PC98 versions of which only the 2nd is translated, possibly 4 on Windows, and the PSP remake?

>>5338202
>levels
>in SaGa
woosh

>>5338163
the hate is from people being unable to understand a game that requests them to have an imagination and doesn't overwhelm them with stimulus to hide their darker emotions and allow them a cheap escape from reality.

>>5338469
Are you not saying the other SaGa games require that?

>>5338163
>Because I'm pretty sure the hate is from it being a shit game even for SaGa standards.
Unlimited is one of the very best games in the series and one of the best RPGs ever made in general, people only hate it because they are brainlets with low RPG powerlevel that can only come up with misinformation and excuses.
If you truly like what the series stands for you cannot dislike Unlimited, you might not like the odd entry like Frontier 2 which does away with a lot of series' conventions, you might not like messes like SNES Romancing SaGa or SaGa 3, but if you truly like the core elements of SaGa you cannot say that Unlimited is a shitty game.
Telling people to get off their high horses while being lofty enough to dismiss such a game with no arguments only shows who's the conceited asshole in here.

>>5338202
Yeah, what is battle rank? Is it tied to your characters overall power or something else?

>>5338435
Oh man, the 4th translation effort came to a screeching halt in 2015, right around the time the PSP remake got a translation. I wonder if that's related.
http://seldane.proboards.com/thread/5287?page=3

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/198537-saga-frontier/77194324
Possibly the closest thing we can get to more content for SaGa frontier.

>>5339737
>what is battle rank?
Battle rank is basically a ladder system that makes enemies stronger, depending on the entry the enemies either get some raw stat boosts or you get new batches of enemies for each family altogether, the latter is the more common form of Battle Rank, in some rare games, you can have both of these design options.
Basically, the higher your BR is, the stronger monsters you fight, however, BR is also subject to certain limitations such as BR floor and ceiling, which means that depending on the zone you're in BR will either reach a certain ceiling, preventing stronger monsters from appearing, or start from a higher floor compared to other zones, meaning that even if you keep your BR as low as possible certain zones will start with a higher minimum BR floor. >Is it tied to your characters overall power
No, Battle Rank is strictly tied to how much you fight, it is not tied to any of your character stats, which is the key distinction from all other forms of level scaling since it effectively DOESN'T SCALE with your character growth, and how could since you don't have levels in SaGa that you could use for scaling?
In the vast majority of games, Battle Rank scales depending on the number of fights you get in, some games make a distinction between fights you win and fights you do not win, some games do not make any distinction so BR grows by simply initiating a battle, no matter whether you win or lose, some other games have more subtle BR growth mechanic related to echology submechanics while other games have BR grow depending on the "nature" of the fight you initiate.

The proto Event Rank mechanics in Romancing SaGa 3 however do work on a stat base, so that certain events can only be unlocked once your MC reaches a certain HP growth threshold.

>>5334408
Worst bait I've seen in a long time.
1/10. Work on it.

>>5338435
Pretty much.

>>5335427
Does everybody forget Atelier was originally on Saturn

how was this?

>>5341527
gaijins hate it

>>5341527
too complex to be fun

>>5341563
Its funky in places but I wouldn't say its too complex to be fun. Just gotta approach it like you would any dungeon crawler.

>>5336036
Using a guide for Asselus' chapter is okay.

>>5341295
The older games like Marie were ported to the PS, like most of the Saturn library.
>>5341527
It's really great if you're into RPGs and aren't afraid of a game that doesn't shy away from going back to tabletop roots and try new designs, if you just want your average JRPG just stay away from it because you'll hate it.