/vr/ - Retro Games

It doesn't look bad sharp or blurred

>>5332842
I think at the very least blurred is a must for me. otherwirse I see weird artifacts/noise along the edges of sprites, or it’s just too sharp to properly discern what things are suppoed to be on screen

>>5332841
>This is how it’s supposed to look.
Rotated sideways? Wow, to think I've been playing DKC wrong all these years!

>>5332841
"it was never meant to"
>source needed
I bet if we asked the original artists who worked on the game they wouldn't agree, and if they were to play it today would use their LCD TVs.

>>5332841
Learn how to take a picture you moron

>>5332975
t. zoomer

They were using blurred CRTs as they made the art, it was literally designed with that in mind, because there wasn’t an alternative. They may want to play on an LCD now, but that doesn’t change the fact that they created the art on a blurred, phosphorescent display, for a blurred, phosphorescent display.

>>5333020
Post any bit of information you can that they were not using SNES dev kits on Sony or Ikegami 14 inch rgb-pvms.

>>5333024

>>5333024
Note the second display they use, a CRT specifically to display and check the art they’re creating.

>>5333020
Ok so should I start viewing images in books that were shot with a camera that has a blurry viewfinder, through a blurry piece of glass?

>>5333034
Now you’re just being obtuse, anon

>>5333036
You're arguing that we should purposefully blur an image because the artists who originally created them had to use blurry equipment. If they'd been able to use LCDs to design the games, they would have. If they're able to use LCDs today to play them, they will.

Why do you think they used PVMs instead of regular CRTs? Because they're less blurry and look more like a crisp LCD.

>>5332841
It's really more the fact that early pre rendered graphics aged terribly when compared to traditional 2d art. Donkey Kong Coutrey looms fine today not becuase of the prerendered graphics, but because the art style itself has aged well. Prerendered graphics that tried to use real people to look "realistic" are why people shit on them.

>>5332909
>he doesn't play DKC in tate mode

>>5333043
>You're arguing that we should purposefully blur an image because the artists who originally created them had to use blurry equipment.
That’s definitely not what I’m arguing. I’m saying they created the art the way they did because they knew the end user would be using blurry equipment. They exploited the technology, basically.
It has less to do with the medium they had to use to create it, and more to do with the medium the art was designed to take advantage of.

The waterfalls in Sonic the Hedgehog are another example.

That looks like shit, OP.
>>5333113
This is what happens when you decide to argue based on intent like a moron instead of what looks better.

>>5333123
2D 80s/90s graphics look 1000% better on CRTs. They’re a fucking mess on CRTs.

>>5332841
I'm not going to go out and get a CRT that is just going to take up more space in my house because some lunatic made a thread.

>>5333164
They make good shelves, anon

>>5333148
Agreed. One reason to keep those fat CRTs around.

>>5332841
I shit on the graphics of those games more than most anyone around here and I've literally never seen it on a modern screen because I haven't played them in 20 years. I just think the designs are ugly to start with and then the way they're rendered is hideous. You don't have to agree.

>>5333113
Small details which require the worst signal path instead of RGB aren't worth using that path for since everything on the screen looks so much better on RGB, or better yet, an LCD

>>5333113
>>5333235
Agreed, even though the waterfall effect happens it's at the expense of everything being blury. I still think the one on the left looks far better overall. I slways hated crts though.

>>5333221
looks better with a filter from 2013 on a shitty lcd than like that on the nicest pvm

>>5332841
>For anyone who automatically phoneposts

>>5332975
>i bet im an underage zoomer

>>5333030
Lies. Damn lies I tell ya. Games were meant to be played in the mind a psychopath at at 8:7 aspect ratio. Have you literally learned literally nothing that last few summers?

>>5333043
>being this young and dumb

>>5332975
The creators of Conker's Bad Fur day did a playthrough with commentary while playing on a CRT.
It's on jewtube

>>5332841
I was meant to look at sideways?

>>5332841
>>5333020
>>5333113
I'm compelled to believe you bud, but I'd really like to hear it from the devs.

Is there a single quote from any dev from that era on this subject? Or from graphic artists at all from that time? If you're trying to say they had intended something - I think the easiest way to prove that's true is to ask them rather than try and convince people through LCD vs CRT comparisons

>>5332841
just like smear vaseline on your lcd monitor to make it blurry then retard

>>5333020
>They were using blurred CRTs

These >>5333030 look pretty professional and there's no reason not to believe they weren't using uncompressed video feeds.

>CReTard
>can't orient a picture correctly

And no one is suprised.

>>5333397
>triple negative statement

>>5333367
Sure bud.
https://vgdensetsu.tumblr.com/post/179656817318/designing-2d-graphics-in-the-japanese-industry

The entire article is interesting, but here are some especially relevant quotes I’ve highlighted for you:
> Once the industry switched from hexadecimal to graphic editors, it wasn’t rare for graphic designers to have not one but two screens on their desk: a computer monitor and a CRT, the second one being used to display the result of the work made on the first one.
> many developers, graphic designers as well as programmers, used that technique [...] the developers used up to 3 CRTs to previsualize the game and see how were rendered the scrolling and blur effects.
> This practice can be explained by at least 3 reasons. The first one is related to the differences in rendering between a computer screen and a CRT, the pixels look generally sharper on a monitor. The second one lies in the specificities of each machine: display resolution, shape of the pixels (rarely as square as one would expect), rendering of the colors -the red color bleeded on the others on Mega Drive, it was recommanded to add neutral colors around to compensate.
> “It’s a technique where by slightly changing the color of surrounding pixels, to the human eye it looks like the pixels move by around 0.5 pixels.”explains Kazuhiro Tanaka, graphic designer on Metal Slug (1996). His colleague Yasuyuki Oda adds that "Back in the old days, we'd say [to our artists] "add 0.5 of a pixel", and have them draw in the pixels by taking scanlines into account. But with the modern Full HD monitor, the pixels comes out too clearly and too perfectly that you can't have that same taste."

>>5333404
Thanks, this is all the convincing I needed. Seems obvious they would keep the end user in mind and this is straight-up evidence they did.

>>5333286
I disagree.

>>5333404
>>5333408
No one is debating they created the art with CRTs, it's the only choice they had lol. They'd never seen an LCD monitor because they didn't exist. Now, game developers use LCDs because they look better. Even though old games were created with/for CRTs, they look objectively superior on LCDs. If you want some blur or scanline effects, you can always add them.

>>5333424
>Even though old games were created with/for CRTs, they look objectively superior on LCDs
>Graphics painstakingly designed around techniques such as alternating lines of colors to create illusion of palette beyond what the hardware is capable of that only work on CRT devices
>Looks "objectively superior" on LCD where all thes effects are broken and missing

>>5333424
I don't agree with objectively better, but I personally far prefer it and never liked the blury look of CRTs regardless of whether the developers did and long before I ever knew there would be an alternative.

>>5333113
>Can't do real transparencies
>But it's the screen that's wrong

>>5333113
Mate, you know they're fucking with you, right? No one on /vr/ unironically promotes modern displays over CRTs

Pictures of CRTs still don't make them justice, especially when you consider that CRT's image look different depending on your IRL position (which scanlines filters on HD displays can't emulate).
To see how amazing DKC series' graphics are, you must display them on their original resolution. The pic will be tiny on your HD display, but you will be able to appreciate it more.

>>5333554
speak for yourself. I unironically think crisp pixel graphics on an HD display look far better than blurred-to-hell ~retro~ displays

>>5333654
>SD games
>crisp pixel graphics on an HD display

>>5333643
I've used both CRTs and LCDs with consoles and it's not that different once you use quality connections like RGB. I'd say the biggest advantage of a CRT is that you don't have to get a scaler box to make original hardware look nice

>>5333694
That's the thing, upscalers. I don't think they make them games justice. It's still stretched, these games weren't made for these resolutions.

>>5333554
I do and I've been a regular poster here the whole time we've had the board. I grew up with these games but I never liked CRTs and always wanted to be able to see the pixels clearly.

>>5333404
A couple of companies cared to use the way CRTs work or composite bleed for certain affects, or sometimes they'd care only one some games.
This wasn't some fucking universal thing that all game developers did or cared about. How fucking could they, the way a CRT displays an image varies depending on the technology, size, and how the TV is calibrated.

>>5334320
I'm not him but I seriously don't know how it's that hard to understand. Everyone used CRTs back then, and if they were used during the development of games, they were obviously designed to look best being displayed on that type of technology. This is just common sense yet people continue to argue about it to this day.

>>5332975
>>5333043
>>5333424
I don't think that you necessarily need a CRT, but you should definitely use older video outputs like composite and RGB. Pic related, for example would literally be unrecognizable on anything but an composite monitor since it took heavy advantage of NTSC signal artifacts to display color.

>>5334369
Just apply a composite filter in your emulator.

>>5333703
>i larp like a mofo

>>5333397
>uncompressed video
>analog video format
What is it about video games that attracts retards that just spew bullshit everywhere?

>>5333286
what filter/game is this, mostly hate filtering but this looks really neat. hud still looks like Fuck though

>>5333286

I like them in PSY games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MEoMD5yn0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u6aoafgCSI

>>5334483
Nah, my hatred for crts is genuine.

what was the old zsnes filter called? hq3x?

>>5333665
Oh look the cherry picked, horrible filter meme. If you use a nice filter, DK really does look better than the pixel garbage original.
>>5333554
I was actually not being ironic.

>>5334543
That's because you're used to seeing angry CRT collectors like >>5334562 post examples of only the worst filters.

>>5332909
I’m incredibly amused at the thought of DK climbing through some bizarre Escher style jungle

>>5333027
Yes we get it, LCDs are better dude. Chill

>>5334490
>any sort of YUV shit is not compressed

>>5333437
You realize that most developers did not do this right?

>>5334369
Looks fine on my phone. Why wouldn’t it look fine with a filter applied on my OLED?

>>5333437
>stares at blurry images for hours because there might be a color gimmick