/vr/ - Retro Games

Ocarina of Time, by far. It's a timeless game.

I've finished TR 1~5, but they're not really everyone's cup of tea.

Am I wrong to say that I think TR mostly feels like Prince of Persia, but in 3D?

Unfair to compare the two when Ocarina had two years to ripoff Tomb Raider where a lot of technological progress was made

>>5309078
Not at all, I never thought about that but its quite accurate

Tomb Raider is actually somewhat challenging at times. Ocarina is just dull.

Also it’s more fun playing as a busty British Indiana Jones than some gay elf twink.

>>5309043
Dont act like all Zelda "puzzles" arent just about block pushing, switch hitting and key getting.

At least in TR there's a platforming challenge

Tomb Raider aged better than Ocarina.

>>5309142
Is this a joke? Tomb Raider was fantastic for its time and had a huge impact on the gaming universe but now its borderline unplayable. Not that Ocarina hasnt aged aswell, just not nearly as much.

>>5309159
>borderline unplayable
Fuck off back to /v/, zoomer

>>5309159
I just played TR today. The game is far from unplayable. The game has sharp controls and the movement is designed to be very deliberate.

>>5309078
No. Tomb Raider's controls are very blatantly modeled after Prince of Persia's.

Can we talk about what makes an interesting puzzle? Maybe some notable examples of action adventure puzzles done right and why?

>>5309043
Zelda is better as far as puzzle quality but Tomb Raider isnt really focused on puzzle solving, just exploring the environment with platforming challenges.

>>5309120
It's challenging because of bad controls. Same can be said by a plethora or PS1 games.

Mario 64

>>5310223
See >>5309167

>>5309043
The only puzzle in Orcarina of Time is how to navigate as quickly as possible through one of the dullest experiences of your life. Seriously, each episode following the boy "adventurer" and his pals from Hyrule as they fight assorted villains has been indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the cartoonish imagery, the series’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of repetitive puzzles, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.
Perhaps the die was cast when Nintendo vetoed the idea of a third party producing the games; Miyanoto made sure the series would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody- just ridiculously profitable cross-promotion for their annual "party games" and childish fighting franchise. The Zelda series might be anti-Sony (or not), but it’s certainly the anti-Spyro series in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement.

>a-at least the platforming elements were good though

"No!"

The writing is dreadful; the exploration was nonexistent. As I played, I noticed that every time Link went to "explore" a largely empty world, Nintendo shoehorned in some repetitive puzzles to pad out the game. I began marking on the back of a Nintendo Power magazine every time I came to the same rehashed box pushing/lever pulling puzzles. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Nintendo's team is so governed by cliches and milking tired franchises ad nauseum that they have no other style of development. Later I watched a lavish, loving Let's Play of The Ocarina of Time by some YouTube manchild. He said something to the effect of, "If these kids are playing Ocarina of Time at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to owning a Nintendo Switch." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you play The Ocarina of Time you are, in fact, trained to play the same dull Nintendo rehashes decade after decade.

>>5310232
This feels like a pasta I've seen before...

>>5310238
Monkies, typewriters, Shakespeare.

>>5309167
>uses /v/ meme
>tells others to go to his home board
What did he mean by this?

>>5309190
Tanks tend to have deliberate controls, yes, but it doesn't mean they handle better than other vehicles.

>>5310272
At what point do you accept that your deficiencies in skills are a problem of your own?

>>5310319
Just admit that tank controls are shit for action games autismo.

>>5310223
>muh Sony boogeyman
Tomb Raider is on PC and Saturn too, ‘toddler.

>>5310327
Just admit that you need to acquire some skill.

>>5310337
I've got skill, you got a fixation on a game with shit controls.

>>5310340
It controls just fine.

>>5310340
Your skill begins and ends at sucking cock, queer.

>>5310342
It doesn't, it's pretty shit.
>>5310347
>cock sucking out of nowhere
Nice projection there, talk it out with your psychiatrist faggot.

>>5310353
You need to be 18 to post here, champ.

>>5310378
Indeed.

>>5310385
Quite.

>>5310353
>zoomer who couldn't stand 10 minutes of learning controls

>>5310410
Needing 10 minutes to learn such a simple albeit bad control scheme
You outplayed yourself.

>>5310414
>having to learn something makes it bad
You heard it here first folks, the only good games are one-button mobile shit.

>>5310414
it takes you max 10 minutes to learn all of the jump timings, I didn't mean pressing dpad you zoomer

>>5310416
>Having to learn
Are you projecting yet again? Because no where in any of my posts did I describe a struggle to learn simple (and bad) tank controls unlike you. Are you feeling well?

>>5310418
It took you 10 minutes? How embarrassing, no wonder your idea of skill starts at learning how a game feels.

>>5310436

>>5310461

As someone who didnt play either until about two years ago, I got bored of Tomb Raider in the second level(but I totally understand the appeal, specially when it came out) but I finished Ocarina of Time

what's a thread like this without a poll?

https://strawpoll.com/cb8zw9hb
https://strawpoll.com/cb8zw9hb
https://strawpoll.com/cb8zw9hb

>all the nintoddlers defending the most overrated game of all time
disgusting

>>5309043
the king in this respect would be tomb raider. oot has nothing on the puzzles in tomb raider, its literally a game for children where tomb raider was a game targeted at young adults. you cant even have this conversation, its just another attempt from nintoddlers trying to satiate their egos. youre a fucking fool and a tool op, faggot.

>>5312035
>tomb raider
>puzzles
more like "puzzles". you just walk around until you find a lever or a key and you ocasionally push some blocks around

>>5309159
no, your just another fucking dipshit nintoddler who things zelda is da best gam evah. shut the fuck up you idiot. you have to be precise with tomb raider and actually use your brain to figure out puzzles, its not just push block here, shoot eye there win game with three hits to dungeon boss.

>>5310223
just cause you cant handle real platforming precision doesnt mean the controls are bad. they take a modicum of fucking intelligence to grasp, unlike oot which is fucking childs play in comparison. this shouldnt even be a conversation. go fuck yourself back to retard era, brainlet.

>>5310426
>earn simple (and bad) tank controls

you think tank control are bad because you cant handle figuring out with your limp brain noodle, that its a strategic platformer with superior puzzles and challenge than babies first game. you dumb fuck nintoddlers cant handle anything that isnt dumbed down to cater to your comfort zone. at this point zelda is a safe space for retards with the cognitive capacity of flat tire.

>>5312040
have you ever played a tomb raider game, cause what im gathering you just like to sput regurgitated talking points from youtubers/reddit. oot is a game for children, the puzzles are simple as fuck, no the water temple isnt hard you dimwitted fucking nintoddler.

>>5310742
>i have the attention span of a dead mouse caught in a mousetrap, and i think zelda is bettah

the post

>>5312065
So tell me about the Tomb Raider puzzles that are more complex than finding keys/artifacts/levers and pushing blocks.

Mind you we're talking about the original Tomb Raider 1996, not the franchise as a whole.

>>5312080
you mean actually having to explore and perform tedious platforming to find items that help you ove forward to the the next area in a level? yeah, you have to find things and they arent pushed into your face, you have to actually problem solve. oot is a game that gives you the answers and makes you perform easy as fuck platform exercises. even croft manner is harder than any dungeon in oot. tell me about shooting eye with bow and graphics that are shit and would only frighten a child?

>>5312085
>perform tedious platforming
you hit the nail on the head

I think the thread is pointless, the games are completely different, tomb raider is a sluggish platformer where they throw some out of place animals once in a while to give lara something to shoot at so the player doesnt fall asleep. That said I still like the game, the limited music creates some cool atmospheric moments and as a fan of indiana jones type stuff there is still some entertainment value in fucking around on ancient ruins.

>>5312105
>>5312105
>i want games to be so fucking easy i dont havet to think.

i think you hit the nail on the head. the dumbing down of people, games are supposed to be games not fast food. youre supposed to have to think to figure shit out. i dont give a fuck if you like indiana jones types games, go play fate of atlantis, if you can figure it out, dumb shit.

>>5312117
But tomb raider doesnt require any thinking, just motor skill and the will and patience to look around every corner. The focus is on platforming exploration, not puzzles. The challenge doesnt revolve around solving mental problems but instead in timing lara's movement correctly.

This is not an opinion, its a fact and its not necessarily a bad thing because its not what the game is about.

>>5312139
how is that not thinking? are you implying oot involves "thinking", thats a grave mistake if you are!

>>5312139
There is plenty of problem solving. wtf are you trying to defend oots non thinking thrown in your face puzzles? They are both puzzle solving action platformers. The only thing oot does better is combat, but to be fair tomb raider doesnt revolve around combat as much as puzzle platforming. This whole thread is retarded.

>>5309223
I fucking love eagle's tower. Best 2D zelda dungeon imo

>>5309043
Tomb Raider is a platformer

>>5312697
its an action adventure with platforming elements

>>5309085
Saying that Ocarina of Time "ripped off" Tomb Raider is like saying that the Wright brothers ripped off DaVinci.

>>5309159
It's just cool to shit on Nintendo nowadays. Especially keep in mind we're on one of the most hipsterish boards on the most contrarian forum on the internet.

>>5312015

>>5313483
>Saying that Ocarina of Time "ripped off" Tomb Raider is like saying that the Wright brothers ripped off DaVinci.
dont tell me the way Link pushes blocks doesnt come straight from Tomb Raider
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRM8p2re_cY

>>5309212
>t. nigger who only played modern PoP and modern TR

>>5309043
I enjoy the more grounded realistic experience of tomb raider, even if it makes for repetitive boring puzzles

Both games that aged like shit. Early 3d was garbage

>>5314274
what a zoomer opinion

>>5314274
Their graphics aged fine enough. If you're picky about that then nowadays you can reduce framerate slowdown by overclocking/speedhacking, increase resolution with normal emulator settings, and even fix PS1 vertex aliasing (wobble) with PGXP.
There's also a 60FPS hack for OoT, but it's buggy as shit and really incomplete so that sucks.

What didn't age well is their controls.
Having no direct camera control, needing to rely on slow sliding and Z-targetting, input/output delay inherent to low framerate N64 on top of Link's reactions not being anywhere near instantanious. Then tank controls while requiring precise movement.
Even if they are usable and certainly good enough to play with if interested enough, they both take quite a bit of getting used to. And not everybody can, or is even willing to.

>>5309043
I feel like there should be a third option. Is this all we've got?

>>5314274
ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM

>>5314765
Facts do not care about your feelings.

>>5314767
Your shitty uneducated Zoomer opinion isn't fact. Mommy calls, go get your Tendies you shitstain.

>>5314782
Desperate.

>>5314274
What's garbage is modern gaming. It's all trash. Last of us was soulless garbage, Uncharted is a desperate attempt to steal Tomb Raider's design and push a faux indiana jones style narrative. Boring schlock. Gaming is dead. Early 3D was the epitome of soul.

>>5314795
Underage. Get off the board, kiddo.

>>5314807
Seethe harder you bitch.

>>5314810
You have to be 18 or older to post here.

>>5310223
>The controls are bad

They have more precision and weight than in Ocarina of Time. The only time you really encounter difficult puzzles in OOT is when you encounter really poorly designed ones that are more irritating than actually challenging. Water temple immediately comes to mind.

Tomb Raider has consistent, accurate, and expansive platforming controls. It takes a literal brainlet or underage kid to not be able to play Tomb Raider well.

>>5314810
>haha, I said a game that has good controls controls like shit
>"Wtf? Get off the board retard"
>HAHAHAHAHA, SEETHE HARDER

lmao'ing at your life

>>5309043
Im a straight guy and I find Link sexier than that freak Lara

>>5314862
>I'm a straight guy
>But I want to fuck a man

What did the closeted fag mean by this?

>>5314862
Not sure if gay man or jealous woman.

>>5314984
>>5315010
Link looks an anime girl wearing boy clothes
Lara Croft looks like a horse faced tranny with fake balloon tits

Not a big Zelda fan(specially Ocarina) but Tomb Raider is too barebones. Never played the sequels so I dont know if they fixed it

>>5315016
what a fucking faggot

besides, lara being a tranny makes her even better

>>5315016
Jealous woman it is.

Comparing these two is like comparing apples to oranges.

Tomb Raider is basically a 3D Prince of Persia and Zelda is basically 3D... well, Zelda, obviously.

Would you compare Prince of Persia to A Link to the Past? I wouldn't.

>>5310223
>bad controls

The controls are near perfect as soon as you understand that all of the platforming operates on a grid. Once you have mastered them you will basically never miss a single jump.

Both are revolutionary but Tomb Raider 1 feels like a prototype while OoT like a complete game

OoT, but not by as far as most.

I'm pleasantly surprised about the old Tomb Raider appreciation these days though. Around the early 2000s there was this attitude that Tomb Raider was archaic and clumsy and made obsolete etc. Ignoring all the amazing level design, atmosphere and outstanding puzzles that made the original 4 games legendary and able stand up against any other game of then or today.

>>5316749
>outstanding puzzles
where? could you name some examples or even videos?

Tomb Raider has soul. OoT is soulless

>>5315016
>link looks like an anime girl wearing boy clothes
So disgusting and stupid?

>Lara Croft looks like a horse faced tranny with fake balloon tits
So, the opinion of an angry, jealous woman?

>>5316749
Puzzles were interesting but the tank controls combined with platforming is what makes it difficult to revisit. I’m not opposed to either mechanics individually. They just fucking suck when combined in the tomb raider series. Especially swimming.

>>5316349
Fucking lies. Let’s see you make it to the top of the mountain in tomb raider 2s first level without falling down.

>>5317951
Which bit are you referring to?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrF5VDdJGAQ

>>5317923
>>5316193
>thinking there are actual woman on /vr/
lmao

Both are outdated af now despite how influential they were. Rn id rather play pacman than either of these

>>5319117
no one cares zoomer

>>5317942
The swimming in TR was great. It was a joy to dive in the water and snoop around, and it was easily the best attempt at 3D vidya swimming at the time.
You had great control over where you went, holding X near items and switches made Lara gravitate towards them making it easy to interact with shit, and the roll that was added in TR2 made maneuvering underwater even easier.
Most water sections were integrated to good effect in levels such as Opera House and Sanctuary of The Scion, or made up the bulk of great levels like Cistern.
The water's visual and audio effects were terrific and added so much to the atmosphere, especially when they added flares and underwater enemies into the mix.
The only bad water sections were the overlong mazes, especially that shitshow in Lud's Gate with the DPV.

>>5309043
Why are we comparing these two games in particular? Is this some meme I'm not getting?

Because they are the most well regarded 3D retro Action-Adventure Puzzlers? What's not to get?

>>5319367
Because they are the most well regarded 3D retro Action-Adventure Puzzlers? What's not to get?

>>5319367
they are more related then it might seem. At the end of the day they both revolve around exploring ancient temples, mostly by solving puzzles.

lara > link
oot > tomb raider

This thread makes me wish there was a less medieval fantasy and more indiana Jones type setting with zeldalike gameplay

>>5321097
Why, because boobies?

>>5321742
Because I would rather stare at a hot girl's ass than having to pretend im a sissy skirt wearing faggot

>all this talk about tomb raider puzzles being basic push the block and hit the switches when its the exact same for zelda

>>5314615
>input/output delay inherent to low framerate N64 on top of Link's reactions not being anywhere near instantanious
OoT reads input at 60 FPS and the game logic is calculated at 60 FPS. Only every third game logic frame is actually rendered though.

>>5323296
Not really. They are still piss easy but there's more variety

>>5317578
this, ocarina of time is just a rehash of link to the past in 3d