/vr/ - Retro Games

The best of the fucking best are Sony BVMs. However, they're a bit on the rare side and can be pretty expensive, not to mention they tend to me smallish. They are pretty much the best CRTs ever made, though.

Below them, there's the PVMs, which are still amazing as fuck and are much more common and can usually be acquired for relatively cheap. If you find one, get it. Again, though, they tend to be smaller.

Then there's regular Sony TVs. They are bigger, very common, and can go for dirt cheap, but are overall not as refined as the professional grade monitors. As far as consumer displays went, however, they were among the best. The WEGA line is very nice, but make sure it's an SD model, because the HD sets don't play as nice with old games. I have a 27FS100 (a very popular model in this board for some reason) that looks similar to the one in your pic, and it's damn good. If you can't find a PVM and want a bigger picture, you can't go wrong with one of these.

27FS100L reporting.

There's a handful of models that hit all the right notes (4:3SD, svideo & component, high end consumer model) and are easy to come by so it's no wonder you see them a lot.

not this fucking shit again, worst fucking thread award 2013 candidate right here

>>529342

retro tvs are secondary at best

>>529335
These things are actually really easy to come by. You should be able to find one for under $10. Stick to good brand names. Sony, Samsung, Toshiba.

What's difficult to find are displays that have these AND rgb.

inb4 Sony PVM elitists. PVMs are really nice this way but I'm sure there are other monitors that do it too.

I finally found a Sony RGB monitor, but it only took RGB via scart and the wiring wasn't the normal SCART type so i would have had to wired a 9 volt battery to trigger RGB.

Too much hassle.

>>529342
>>529415
Underageb& or have only ever used RF.

>>529452
You can buy a scart to "cmptr" cable or just make one. You don't need a battery but you do need a sync separating IC

>>529438
>inb4 Sony PVM elitists
Not all of us are elitists.

You should go with what you can find, afford, and like; Not what someone says you "NEED" to get.

>>529453
no, implying implications turd nugget, I think we just prefer to discuss actual video games instead

KV-28fx68u here.

It may be widescreen but 4:3 mode looks fine. Currently working on a setup that involves all my consoles plugged in through RGB at once (excluding the NES of course).

I need 5-port RGB capable scart extensions though, and I can't find any. Anyone know of any good extension boxes?

I have a Toshiba and Panasonic 30". I just bought cheap ones off of Kijiji. Does it really matter?

>>529506

Very few CRTs are actually 'bad', you could get a lot better ones, that's all.

>>529506
Nope.
I use a Panasonic 30" as well, looks just fine.

>>529514
What's the reason for using a crystal clear display if you could just as well use an emulator with a scanline filter and get the same results?
Using less-than-perfect equipment gives the games a somewhat rough edge that just adds to the charm.

>>529525
I emulate with scanline shaders a lot myself, but yeah, it's not the same at all. Current LCDs cannot replicate CRTs very faithfully.

>>529528
I know, but these high-end CRTs might aswell be LCDs judging from the clarity and color vibrance.

>>529525

I've been using less-than-perfect equipment for the whole of my life though. It's time to get a perfect set up.

>>529545
Then get an SD-HD converter, mod your SNES with RGB outs, spend $1000 on a high-grade TV, $3000 for a boutique amplifier and another $2500 for electrostatic headphones.
PERFECT.
SETUP.

>>529549
inb4 crt fanboy lag buzz

>>529549

But I've tried HD upscalers (good ones) and it still doesn't touch how it looks on my CRT. Also, stop being pedantic.

There is nothing better than RGB running into a SD CRT, I've tried all kinds of filters but nothing beats the real thing.

Sadly, my house was struck by lightning and there was a power surge. my 68cm Sony with SCART didnt fair too well.

I havent been able to find another TV with scart so i'm back to S-video and component for the time being.

>>529571
Ouch.

It's such a pain that CRTs cost so much to import from Europe, or you could just get a European one with SCART ports.

TV I have has 3 SCART port, two of which support RGB. Guess living in Europe has its advantages.

>>529452
My TV was the same, I ended up adding a 12v DC input to the back of the TV and wiring it to the scart connector.

I just use a 12v wall wart when i want to use RGB.

>>529534
>I know, but these high-end CRTs might aswell be LCDs judging from the clarity and color vibrance.
You can't get an LCD with a native resolution that low.

>>529534
>implying LCDs have good color reproduction

>>529591

I have an SD LCD actually.

It's horrid, the blurring is unbelievable (bearing in mind it's not a very good quality TV anyway). I would quite like to see a good SD LCD actually.

Bump?

Hey I have a question. If I got a nice Trinitron PC monitor and played emulators through it, would they look better than if I played them on an LCD?

>>528796
Whoa, I had that CRT once. The one day it miserably died beyond repair (as said by an expert) was when I switched to LCD, a little bit on the sad side.

Anyway, does some one rock some good old shadowmask in here? I don't get the PVM elitism around, wanting some big ass scanlines only because it does look kind of sharp on composite and RF, but then again you shouldn't be using those connections unless you're forced to. Shadowmasks have little to no noticeable scanlines and you actually notice some kind of vertical grid creating a nice proto-antialiasing effect, without even messing with the source quality and detail.

>>529635
>FW-900

>>529639
I'd fucking love a FW900 but that price man, goddamn.

>>529635
Yes. You won't be able to get nice-looking scanlines (unless you center the emulator at 1x scale), but you can easily set your desktop resolution to an even multiple of a console's native resolution.

>>529525
Filters don't emulate CRT flicker, and the flicker is essential for sharp looking motion.
See http://www.blurbusters.com/ for explanation.

rgb/scart master race

SCART is one thing the french did right, i just wish it had carried over to rest of the world

>>529803

Though SCART may be good, you haven't experienced hell until you've had a TV with one SCART port that's loose. Even the vibration of someone walking in the room will make that shit fall out.

>>529818
Just take off the back and solder it down properly. That's what I did with my old trinitron.

I can only find TV's with composite inputs, is there any way i can modify them for better quality?

>>529890

I don't think so. Best you can do with that is turn the sharpness up full and make sure the cables aren't getting any interferance.

>>529861
Because not only do all of us know how to solder, but have the tools laying around handy, ready to bust out at the drop of a dime.

>>529861

I'm this guy >>529818

I would, but honestly I'm a bit scared of opening up a CRT. I don't use that TV anymore anyway.

>>529897
You can buy a cheap soldering iron from multiple stores. Wal-mart, Lowes, Home depot, Radio Shack, etc. Soldering something back down isn't all that hard. Look up some videos and everything will be perfect again in no-time.

Toshiba 36HFX73 - 36" 4:3 CRT HDready - 480P, 720P, 1080i - 1024x768 native - s-video, component & DVI inputs - sadly there is NO VGA port, nor SCART (like every other north american model tv) and the beast weights 240 pounds!

I had one of these beauties for years and ended up giving it my cousin cause I didn't have room for it after upgrading to a Sharp Aquos LCD 1080P. ANY SD signal console looked great on it, especially 480P signals like GameCube. Wish I still had it because SD looks like ass on my LCD.

>>530705
That wouldnt be that much better for SD consoles as HD CRT's still have a wierd method of processing SD picture.

>>530705
>not 480i SD display
>HD for retro

trash

>>529637
Here in Europe, most TVs did have shadowmasks. Including all the ones I've ever had. Never really seen a scanline outside of photos on the internet.

>>530761
I don't think you realize how CRT's work.

Neither does the other guy.

They don't have a native resolution, so that TV is capable of display *up to* 1024x768, but it can also display a 240p signal with all the scanlines you expect.

>>530778

Plenty of Trinitrons here in Euroland.
The reason for you never seeing "scanlines" is probably you only having played 50hz games, where the higher line count makes the gaps less noticeable.

>>530794

You'd think so, but these HD CRTs are retarded and upscale anyway.

...or so I've heard. Never had one.

>>530794
no because the display differs due to the hi scan procedure the HD ready crts do

>>528883
>Sony BVM
motherrucker they cost 10,000 dollars

>>529483

Display technology for video games is highly video game related.

How good do games look with a CRT computer monitor?

>>529438

>RGB

So would vga cord work?

>>530794
HD CRTs have limited native resolutions and upscale SD signals to those resolutions. The best you'll get is a TV that doesn't fuck with a 480p signal, and even then, some HD CRTs will upscale even that.

>>530761
are you retarded? 480i is a base for all tvs, i was listing the other formats supported.

>>530794
No, I'm referring to the max supported resolution, which is 1024x768. anything above that is scaled to fit. so 1280x720 would display at a much lower resolution, something along the lines of 1024x540. 4:3 HDTVs are weird.

>>530881

It depend on the computer monitor you have: Amiga monitors are great, I don't know for Atari ones, Amstrad CPC monitors are not bad as you can buy a TV tuner for them and as they're made by Schneider (most of them). PC CRT monitors on the other hand aren't that great due to the fact that the pixels are too sharp compared to other monitors.

Getting one of the models listed "480i with auto 16:9 enhancement " is the best we mortals can get if not going for the very hard to find in north america PVMs

most of the time these are at insane driving distance and shipping is not an option

however the wega tv's are a common find

>>530981
forgot page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA

>>530891
No, that looks like a 9-pin CGA/EGA port, which is digital and thus wholly incompatible with VGA.

What model of BVM is the best? I'm willing to put a lot of money up front for a single investment, and I want a CRT that will never be surpassed.

>>530981
>very hard to find in north america PVMs
Speak for yourself, I just typed "PVM" on craigslist and found mine in about 10 seconds, drove about five minutes to pick it up and it cost me $25. There were plenty of others to choose from, too.

>>530936
>No, I'm referring to the max supported resolution, which is 1024x768. anything above that is scaled to fit
Anything above OR BELOW that is scaled to fit. I used to own one of those Toshiba sets. Like most "HD ready" CRTs, they're not actually multiscan. They upscale material to a single native resolution.

>>531948
Lucky you. I've been looking for at least a month, in that time there's been exactly one on craigslist, small as fuck, old as fuck, no component, $45, and the guy had already sold it.
Nothing before or since.

>>531948
Some areas are shit for this kind of thing. Not one single PVM is listed where I'm at, namely the asshole of South Texas. There are a couple of WEGAs, but some people seem to think they're still worth big money. One is listed for like $150.

>>531984
>>531963
Yeah, here in Central Florida there's a lot of commercial/TV production studios, so I guess that's where they come from. There's a few of the 800 line PVMs going for about $120

Bumping niggers.

>>529474
god damnit dude you post so many pictures of your room on this board it's creepy. I KNOW INSIDE YOUR HOUSE.

>>535586
I've posted my "battlestation"(of which that picture is part of), my shelves, THAT bathroom(/v/ for vingo), and most recently a wall I want to tear down(/diy/). I don't think it's that much.

Speaking, anyone know anything about supporting/non-supporting walls?

>>529890

Some TVs use common circuit boards that have many extra input headers while only some of them are actually hooked up to ports on the chassis. It was just cheaper and easier to mass produce that way.

There are plenty of composite/svideo/component sets out there capable of RGB and you'd never know unless someone's analyzed your model of TV before, or you have the means to do it yourself.

>have had my Sylvania for years

Only issue is that the picture always tilted to the side. Not much, but maybe half a inch, just enough space to obscure something. I have no idea how to fix this.

>>535623
Supporting walls will have a 4x4 in them that runs from a floor joist to a rafter. If it doesn't have all of these features it isn't a supporting wall. I understand that you don't really want to tear down your wall material but it may be the only way to see if you can't tell from the attic or the basement (or crawlspaces). Realestatefag here.

captcha: imsellin place

>>536027
This is a rather old home, so I'm not completely sure if that would apply.

Mind if I link a few pictures?

>>>/diy/441128
>>>/diy/441131
>>>/diy/441261
>>>/diy/441264
>>>/diy/441282
>>>/diy/441512
>>>/diy/441323

Why do CRTfags always claim that the response time of LCDs is a strike against them? I've tried various NES and SNES games and never noticed it.

>>530761
>480i
>HD

>>536384
It's not except in tourney fighting and FPS play and how many people do those anyway?

>>536435

Reaction time matters in every game you play, sans turn-based games.

Any game that's even remotely reliant on reaction time requires proper timing.

>>536384
Not all televisions are the same. Some LCDs have terrible input lag and some don't.

>>536446
Look, I don't know about you but my Bravia has always seemed fine except for some smearing. You act as if there's a three-second pause between pressing the button and Mario jumping.

>>536458
Not same guy, but as far as I know input lag is not an issue if you have a quality TV brand, not Westinghouse or some Chinese shit.

Does anyone recognize this model? I've searched around and I believe it's a KV-27FS13, but I'm not certain, I'm going to call on it in the morning. If it is, would this be a decent one to use?

>>535623
I'm curious, what are you using to play Sonic Advance on your PVM here? A Gameboy Player?

>>536493
And to add onto that... Is that 480i output or what?

>>536461
>>536468
Bravias are among the better TVs you can use with gaming because Sony is a console manufacturer and has more vested interest in them performing well than Sharp or LG or whatever.

>>536493
>A Gameboy Player
That's what I would use if I still had my copy of Sonic Advance

VBA GX emulator on the Wii, via component.

This is also from an emulator.

>>536516
So it's 480p, then?

It seems that VBA GX didn't support 240p when I tried it last.

>>536529
I don't believe my PVM does 480p, though I've never looked into it.

All I know is that any time I've gave it a 480p signal from my PSP, it always shifts the image to the side, and squeezes it.

>>536546
Can you set your Wii to 480p and try it, then?

Also, what model is your PVM?

>>536569
20M2MDU

Pretty much a 20M2 with an extra set of inputs.

perfect. i've been wanting to ask about this recently.

is there anyway to play physical gba carts on a tv aside from a gameboy player?

I'm googling it but I'm not finding a solid answer, maybe I'm just dumb.
What is PVM in this contest?

>>536583
Context, even.

>>536583
Professional Video Monitor.

>>536582
With a third party device of some kind, or even a WideBoy AGB for the Nintendo 64... but I wouldn't count on one of those.

>>536593
i don't like the fragile look of the wideboy.
i've googled around a bit but i can't find much.
i just want something like the gba equivalent of a super gameboy. or even an adapter to plug a gba in directly, or a 3rd party gba console of some kind.

>>536582
http://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/gbaterebi.html
There's this, no idea how they are, or if you can get them anymore.

>>536583
Professional Video Monitor

It's a line of TV monitors that Sony made specifically for studio and often medical use.

Very accurate colors, and clear images.

>>536614
They're built well, it's just getting your hands on one that's the tricky part.

Wii via S-Video, Sonic Advance emulated on WiiMednafen.

Double-strike mode (240p) is set.

>>536656
>WiiMednafen
I might have to look into that.

If you really want a CRT monitor, go to a Goodwill or any similar secondhand thrift store for poorfags and you will probably find some very decent sized CRT monitors selling for $1-$5 in the back next to all the shitty TVs and moldy old cordless phones. They are worth absolutely nothing now. Currently using a 20 inch Dell monitor that costed $2.

>>536569
>>536529
FWIW, Retroarch for Wii's VBANext core works great and lets you output in 240x160p, letterboxing the screen to keep the correct aspect ratio. Looks really nice.

>>536662
I'm actually in the process of setting that up right now. I'll post another screenshot momentarily.

>>536582
yes, if you can find one of these

>>536660
In my experience WiiMednafen is most useful for PCEngine/Turbografix emulation, the other emulators for Wii either don't have 240p output or have other issues. Even Wii Retroarch's Mednafen PC Engine core is inferior.

Other than that, best emulators I've come across are:
SNES: SNES9xGX
Genesis/MD/Master System/Gamegear/Other old Sega Systems: Genesis Plus GX
NES: Nestopia core in Wii Retroarch (Only one that has smooth scrolling)
Neo Geo: Download official VC releases or ROM injections, the official VC Neo Geo emulator outputs in native res and runs well

>>536582
>is there anyway to play physical gba carts on a tv aside from a gameboy player?

Wire a mini molex connector to the GBA's internal RGB+S contacts, mount it to the shell and make a custom molex to rgb cable?

>>536582
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plug-your-GBA-Gameboy-Advance-into-any-TV-with-this-Convertor-Adapter-Adaptor-/181062413661?pt=US_Video_Game_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2a28292d5d

>>536697
>ROM injections
I always see this mentioned, but never looked into "exactly" what it was, or how to do it.

Also, We 480p now; Sort of...

>>536773
Guess that answers that.

Meanwhile, RetroArch works nicely for GBA games, but I'm starting to notice a bit of warping in my display.

If I recall correctly, there should be some dials to play with inside my PVM to help straighten things out, but I don't know if I'm brave enough to venture in there any time soon.

>>528796
Not sure But they all good.I had one 80's model, and one 90's model.They both good

>>536773
I found this mediafire folder that has a ton of them for neo geo a while back: http://www.mediafire.com/?93v3ml9xr229o

Basically it's just taking the emulator that was bundled with a ROM on VC, and replacing the ROM with a different one.

There's a tool that does it too, haven't used it myself. Some people use them for N64 Roms with varying levels of success.

Also my PVM did the exact same thing when I first hooked it up in component, since I had it in 480p on an HDTV before that

>>536785
You could probably do some of that in it's service menu.

>>536835
Pretty

>tfw I will probably never have a component cable for my Gamecube

>>536839
Makes sense.


This just in:

I am terrible at the old megaman games.

TopMan attempt number 3, here we go.

>>536901
I haven't quite figured out how to access the service menu.

My unit's a Sony PVM-2950q.

>>536962
For mine, you go into the normal menu, then hit the select and degauss button at the same time.

>>537006
Unfortunately, mine does not seem to be function the same way. I'm still searching for a way to access mine, since there are reports saying I can fix this without opening up my monitor.

>>530887

>emulation threads deleted regularly

nope, nothing but hipster faggots trying to turn the CRT into the record player here.

>>537121
They get deleted for two reasons:

1 - 9 times out of 10 they turn into filtered vs unfiltered shit flinging contests

2 - There is a perfectly fine, and much more knowledgeable Emulation General on /vg/ that has been there since it's inception.

>>537121
Except you can still buy new turntables and records. There are _no_ consumer-level CRTs left.

>>537157
>Except you can still buy new turntables and records

Well how else are DJs gonna scratch?

>>537156
I'm actually somewhat surprised at how playable that seems despite looking like that.

>>537157
>Except you can still buy new turntables and records
And vacuum tubes. Fucking sucks about CRTs though. I'd buy a new one if I could.

>>537162
Do you have any idea how much infrastructure it takes to manufacture CRTs? A lot more than stamping a piece of vinyl.

>>537162
You can occasionally find new old stock CRTs on ebay.

Hell, there was a place in San Diego selling 20m2MDU(If I remember correctly, could be mistaken though) PVMs, new in the box for $250 plus ~$100 for shipping last September.

>>537173
As of 10 years ago, there was a sony CRT manufacturing facility not that far from my city; I wonder if any of the machinery is still there?

>>537173
Even vacuum tubes, they have to make them in Third World countries because of the large amount of manual labor involved. If you've seen old pictures from the 50s, General Electric et al used to have huge rooms of people inserting the filaments by hand.

>>537185
>As of 10 years ago, there was a sony CRT manufacturing facility not that far from my city; I wonder if any of the machinery is still there?

The Thomson/RCA plant in Indiana was closed in 2004, but disgruntled workers set fire to it.

>>537185
>>537157
They still make a few Trinitons for the TV studio market (but he's right about consumer level CRTs). There's one plant left in Indonesia. Sony can afford to keep it running because these things sell for like $10,000 and carry huge markups.

The funny thing is that LCDs were supposed to lower manufacturing costs, yet TV manufacturers are suffering huge losses now because that reduced cost means that the number of companies making them has doubled, thus a fuckton more hands grabbing at the profit pie.

>>537189
I know that when the Soviet Union collapsed, tube enthusiasts were going over there to buy Russian ones since they kept making the things long after they'd died out in the West and Japan.

>>537193
>>537197
>just googled it
>mfw it was their last TV manufacturing plant in the US
>mfw it shut down completely 3 years ago(having stopped making CRTs 4 years prior)
Fucking mexicans.

>>537203
Good, since they're also lower quality displays that have gotten along based on the fact that consumers don't care about quality, only convenience.

>>537203
Probably also that thanks to the Internet, people in general watch less TV now since they have more stuff to do.

>>537213
IIRC, that plant had been making TVs since the 50s. After RCA was bought out by Thomson in 1987, they inherited it.

>>537213
Forgot to add;

Explains why there are so many sony CRTs available in the area.

$20 for a 27in Trinitron? Shieet

>>537214
Depends. As far as computer monitors, LCDs are clearly better because of the suffering caused by staring at a CRT for hours. Also they don't get burn-in which is desirable on computers where you have static pictures.

>>537203
Oh yeah, LCD panels are so cheap that almost anyone can buy/make them and slap a TV tuner into it.

>>537223
I was talking about the one near me.

Apparently it was originally owned by Chrysler, bought by Volkswagen, and then taken over by Sony in 1990.

>>537227
>LCDs are clearly better because of the suffering caused by staring at a CRT for hours
Eh, I use a CRT as my secondary monitor, and it bothers my eyes less than my LCD does. That could be because it's running at 85hz though

>>537227
Well, with monitors, you can generally force output at the panel's native resolution at all times, and they're designed to be low latency with no image processing whatsoever.

With TVs, it's usually the complete opposite, and they wind up being ass for video games. Worse still is that manufacturers refuse to publish relevant information regarding latency, delays when upscaling a signal, and so on, and doing something like improving 240p or 480i output is a joke that will never have effort invested into it.

>>537267
>With TVs, it's usually the complete opposite, and they wind up being ass for video games. Worse still is that manufacturers refuse to publish relevant information regarding latency, delays when upscaling a signal

They do not. It's a complete gamble as to whether a particular TV will work well with 480i signals or not. I generally feel that my Bravia is satisfactory since although it smears a lot, there's no input lag that I can notice. But then Sony is an A-tier manufacturer and since they also are in the console business, would be more motivated than LG or whatever to provide acceptable gaming performance.

The real test is actually the oldskool 240p signals since a lot of LCDs get confused by the two scanline fields being rendered in the same location (on a CRT, the even field is displaced half a line)

Ooh, another CRT thread. I used to come into these with lots of questions and uncertainty, but after lots of research and Craigslist crawling I finally secured a KV-27FV310. I was hoping for a KV-32FV, but this is the only FV I could find amongst the sea of FS's in my area. Fucking beautiful picture and sound. I've never seen NES games look this good coming out of the actual console. Dat comb filter.

Actually the edges of the picture have some issues with color convergence, bent geometry, and overscan but all of this can be fixed with the service menu...if I ever get around to figuring it out one day. Wish I could find a good guide on that.

>>537346
Sadly, for whatever reason Sony limited a bunch of the convergence options on sets that are less than 30" in size IIRC. I know I couldn't do jack shit about the convergence issues on my 27FS100.

>>537359
Any tips on how to at least fix the warping and overscan, at least? I can't make heads or tails of the service menu and I'm afraid of fucking it up.

>>537364
IIRC the picture size and position are governed by HSIZ, HPOS, VSIZ, and VPOS. You move values up and down with 3 and 6 on the remote, and write the values by pressing Mute then Enter.

But yeah, make sure you do NOT change any values that you don't know anything about. Some of these can fuck your TV's shit.

>>537312
Actually, with what looking I've been doing lately, Panasonic is one of the better brands for input lag, though that's just with their own native resolutions.

Still, I wouldn't even dream of using any SD signal on a HDTV for playing video games. Deinterlacing alone adds a full frame worth of latency right off the bat, and it only gets worse from there. Like you said, HDTVs just don't understand 240p. Wasn't it non-standard to begin with, and just took advantage of the way older TVs worked?

>>537364
Really, I think it depends on what kind of warping you're getting. I have a lovely KV-32FS120 and I fucking ruined the picture trying to get it into my house, so now it has geometry issues like the top-left corner of the screen "sagging".

I've played around in the service menu for hours, and have hidden the flaws to an extent, but for some things there's just no actual menu option, even with the service menu.

Since I had the Wii hooked up, and having lost to Snakeman on MM3, I decided to play some Pokemon Crystal

>Walk into Elm's Lab
>Picture flickers like crazy
God damn. I guess that's 480i+the GXTV's interference for you.

At least it looks nice.

>>537390
And of course, Kris

best pokegirl

Time to get some sleep.

>>537375
>Panasonic is one of the better brands for input lag, though that's just with their own native resolutions

Their TVs are mostly plasma so of course lag isn't a problem

>Still, I wouldn't even dream of using any SD signal on a HDTV for playing video games. Deinterlacing alone adds a full frame worth of latency right off the bat, and it only gets worse from there

I don't notice any problem with my TV, so...

>Like you said, HDTVs just don't understand 240p. Wasn't it non-standard to begin with, and just took advantage of the way older TVs worked?

240p is a hack made by diddling with the sync pulses so that both NTSC fields are rendered on top of each other instead of displaced. The FCC forbade TV stations from broadcasting this way. Standard 480i has the fields displaced half a line and they contain a different picture each while in 240p they're identical. Since LCDs are fixed-resolution, they generally display 240p as a progressive scan picture with both fields placed in sequence.

The only odd quirk I encountered is that Mario doesn't flicker for some reason and instead just looks like a glowing blue mass for a couple of frames.

>>537390
The other emulators above support 240p output for Gameboy games, so I'd go with them rather than VBA GX.

>>537406
I'm planning to, I was just using what I had on hand.

>>537407
>Mario doesn't flicker for some reason and instead just looks like a glowing blue mass for a couple of frames
That's sounds hilarious.

>>537417
>Mario doesn't flicker for some reason and instead just looks like a glowing blue mass for a couple of frames

I'm referring in particular to SMB2 when you press Down to energize before making a jump and this effect happens. I have absolutely no idea why that happens.

>>537389
Actually, I happen to be playing a game right now that helps highlight the edge issues on mine since it's in a frame on the screen. Notice how the edges of the picture line up with the edges of the screen. I can see the warping along the bottom of the picture when I play sidescrollers because the landscape scrolls along the warping. The color issue only affects the top right corner; you'll notice too much red on the edge there (might be hard to see in this case).

I mean these are definitely livable issues; the CRT I was using before this was far worse for a number of reasons.

>>537417
>>537396
>>537390
Whatever emulator you're using for that is scaling the image vertically pretty badly. Those uneven lines are bugging the shit out of me. Why do you have it stretched like that?

>>537457
VBA GX
It also can't loop the music worth a damn.

And the scaling may be partially on me, I have it set to 90% v, 90% h Screen Zoom, so I don't have to underscan in order to see the whole picture.

Here's 100% v/h while underscanned

>>537495
And one without a huge scan field on it.

>>537495
What I mean to highlight are the uneven pixels since your emulator is scaling using nearest neighbor. See the left screenshot in my pic for an example. Everything looks kinda garbled up and uneven. The right screenshot is using a bicubic filter to preserve the shape of the original pixels since a proper multipled resolution isn't available (in this case I've scaled them to 150% instead of 200%). You should enable such an option if the emulator has it (or alternatively scale the image down to original resolution; size isn't everything).

This is why Super Game Boy has a huge frame around the image, because GB resolution scaled up by proper 2x was too big for the SNES's output resolution and it would look terribly ugly if they scaled it anywhere in-between.

>>537535
I see what you mean.

Like I said, the screen zoom may have something to do with it; And it is set to unfiltered(so nearest neighbor in all likely hood) from some GBA game I probably played last on it.

And Like I said, I'm going to be switching emulators soon anyway, so it's not that big of a deal.

CRT are for nostalgia fags.

I am building a NES/SNES kiosk, can anyone tell me if the originals used composite or RGB?

>>538318
You know where you at, fool?

>>538318
Where do you think we are.jpg

>>538481
Composite for the NES.

The way around LCD lag is to get an upscaler box. Most of you fail to realize that they don't usually provide good-quality ones in TVs because it's expensive and most manufacturers don't care about video game performance since they primarily design the things to watch TV.

>>538856

And what about the colors, contrast, pixel blend, NTSC bleed for some systems, flixer for the sharp movement?

>>538860
>>538856
Ideally, get a Panasonic plasma+upscaler box

>>538856
The way around LCD lag is to get a CRT television. You can spend several hundred dollars for good upscaling equipment and still have problems or you can spend under $50 and get an enormous CRT television.

>>538481

Try to make it full RGB, it would be better.

>>538849
>Composite

Oh god I feel retarded now.

>>538865
>The way around LCD lag is to get a CRT television

Thank you and I'll have to get back to you when I can go into Best Buy and pick up a Trinitr...oh wait sorry, it's 2013. I can no longer do that.

>>538879
Hey, man, it's not my fault that you're too stupid to realize that different things are available in different places.

Let me guess, your next excuse is that looking elsewhere is no good because you lack the patience to search anywhere that's not a big box store, right?

>>538879

Do you know what the Goodwill is

>>538879
True. We need to lobby Congress to subsidize CRT manufacturing.

>>538860
There are enthusiast upscaler boxes that even emulate scanlines and shit.

>>538481
Almost definitely composite (They're the ones that used an actual, physical NES, right?) The arcade machines based on the NES hardware used RGB.

>>538901

This. It would fight unemployment.

>>538902


Maybe, but I prefer staying with a Sony Trinitron I found for 10€ with a wonderful picture.

>>538902
The only thing you absolutely _need_ a CRT for is playing Duck Hunt

>>538913
>Maybe, but I prefer staying with a Sony Trinitron I found for 10€
>10€

Go to bed, Yurop

>>538917
Or Time Crisis, Point Blank, Virtua Cop, House of the Dead, Battleclash...

>>538917

... And any lightgun games. There are some wonderful on many systems.

>>538923

Too bad it's only 05:30 PM here...

>>538917
And for those few times when you get the itch to play a light gun game, you can just find a shitty 13" portable set at a thrift store

>>538935
>Too bad it's only 05:30 PM here

Just about time for your afternoon prayer to Mecca, amirite?

>>538937
Or... OR, get a good TV instead and use it for all older games instead of settling for a garbage TV like that.

>>536490
I'm thinking that's a middle-of-the-road CRT.
It's too big to get good quality from older consoles, newer ones might look good.
I have a KV-32HS420 (Huehue, 420) myself. It's a bit newer silver-styled WEGA that does great with 480p signals like PS2 and gamecube, but only so-so with my N64 and such.
If I'm correct, native "internal" resolution on everything up to the Dreamcast was 320x240, which most large sets line-doubloed to 640x480, making it look terrible. Smaller sets do this less noticably. I've been trying to put a figure on the "maximum size" of a CRT for 90s consoles, I think 21" is a good bet. (How do yuros measure TVs, in metres?)

And it is 2013, we know this, but there's still some life left in those high-energy, X-ray producing lead-lined boxes. And LCD/LED isn't exactly a 1:1 replacement for each and every facet of the CRT. But until we can images beamed directly onto/into our retinas, it'll have to do. And there's a certain ruggedness and draw to a technology that's 116 years old.

Well 13/14" isn't that bad.

>>538941

Stop being mad about the fact we had RGB on consoles before they understood that RF isn't a good idea in the States. And take that shit to >>>/pol/ would you.

>>538942
Have you actually been to a thrift store? Most of the TVs there fit that description. You speak as if every Goodwill has 20 Wegas laying around.

>>538956
>Stop being mad about the fact we had RGB on consoles before they understood that RF isn't a good idea in the States

I never said anything about RGB. Quit projecting butthurt onto others.

>And take that shit to >>>/pol/ would you

Stay rustled, Ahmed.

>>538959
Maybe you should consider being patient and looking around more. I know that's hard, hearing that you can't have exactly what you want the exact second you want it, but since you're browsing /vr/ I'd imagine you aren't completely a modern gamer and you should have SOME sense left in your head.

There are more than enough large, high quality CRT televisions that most people simply don't want anymore and will get rid of for almost no money. You've just got to look for them. If you want something done right, put a little effort in. If you want to be lazy and halfass it, well, I suppose Best Buy will happily take your money.

>>538856
>>538902
care to say/mention/link few?

I have a GE 19" set from 1995. How does this TV rate?

>>538973
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2011/04/guides_upscaling_your_retro_consoles_for_hdtv_sets

I don't get why HDTVs simply don't let you set a 640x480 picture which would match the native resolution of NTSC.

>>538985
Err, because you'd have a tiny postage stamp picture in the middle of a huge-ass black screen?

>>539009
I don't think that's what he means. My TV also has problems supporting smallers resolutions, it ends up cropping some of the edges when upscaling. My previous one did this as well and it was a different brand. I think this is an issue in general but I have no idea why

>>538961
It's not about size. It's about the TV being HD or SD. HD sets line-double 240p, which looks bad. You fix that by doing your homework and making sure the model you're getting isn't HD, but SD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron

Everything that says 480i in that list is game for retro games. Everything that isn't is great for Dreamcast and up, but not really fit for N64 and below.

i'm looking at bvm and pvm trinitron's online and the inputs look strange to me.

do they usually have coaxial and rca inputs?

>>541815
They use BNC connectors.

You can get RCA female to BNC Male adapters for cheap on amazon or monoprice.

>>541991
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron
my sony trinitron has none of that in it's rear end.

>>542093
PVMs and BVMs aren't televisions.

>>537390
>lost to Snakeman on MM3

...is that even possible without just letting go of the controller?

My local craigslist has a KV-27FS100 for about $30 should I go for it? I'll try to talk him down to about $20. I just want a decent CRT to get me by when it comes to retro gaming

Grab a CRT and get retro gaming.

Don't be so anal pained about model.

>>543681
I have that exact same TV. If it wasn't for the fact that the component ports eventually broke (probably because I kept forcing Monster cables that would not fucking fit on them), it would be a top tier display for retro games. S-video is still very good, so I am very satisfied with it. Go snatch that shit.

>>543681

Yeah it's a great set.

It also weighs 110 pounds so have fun loading and unloading it.

>>543818
You think that's bad? I bought a Sony KD-30XS955, which is a CRT HDTV, straight from a Sony outlet store back when they still sold those, and the fucker weighs over 150 pounds. You have no idea what a bitch it was to get that fucker out of the car and into my room.

>>537157

Because they're rendered completely obsolete by the new technology. There is absolutely no advantage. I have a 32" CRT and I would rather give it away for free than haul it up or down the stairs ever again, and nobody fucking wants it because it weighs 300 pounds and has half the image quality of a subpar LCD screen.

Wasn't so easy to get a record player in the 80's-90's either before the rise of "look-at-me-i'm-so-cool-because-i-use-outdated-technology" hipster elitism either.

Don't worry guys some enterprising jew will eventually find a way to take advantage of you fags. Until then i'm sure you can still find plenty of them collecting dust in your mom's basement and sitting on the curb on garbage day.

>>543713
You don't want something that burns-in easily unless you only play action games. I can't play Snatcher on my TV because of that.

I didn't pay a cent for it, though, and it otherwise has perfect picture, so whatever.

>>543861
>Because they're rendered completely obsolete by the new technology
No, LCD's took over because they are cheaper to manufacture.
TV manufacturers over-hyped LCD displays to get people to buy them.
TV ads aren't trying to inform you about technical details, they're trying to get you to buy new shit.

If CRT's kept getting manufactured and kept improving then it wouldn't even be a contest.

>>543920
While I appreciate that CRT display is sick, and know the difference between what CRT and SD are and why he's stupid, there is one huge, huge advantage of modern tvs.

You can actually get a 60" plasma tv up a fight of stairs. Getting a CRT half that size up requires a whole team of people. And if it falls, well, there go your bones.

>>543943
I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. CRTs are not for everyone. But if you have your own house and it's staying put, what does weight really matter? You only have to trouble yourself the one time.

>>543943

The advantages LCD displays have are all related to convenience. They take up less space, they weigh less, they cost less, they're easier to calibrate, etc. None of that has anything to do with picture quality. CRT's may be inconvenient, but they produce the best picture quality for standard definition signals. If you want the best, you have to sacrifice some convenience.

>>543943

I can do up to 150Lb by myself, so mid-30" size CRTs would probably be the limit without help.

>>543993

right fag.

I have seen a 30" CRT leave 3 muscular men huffing and breathing like they ran a marathon. It is truly the grand piano of outdated technology.

No friends = no CRT in you apartment

>>543978

Why don't you try watching the same HD movie on an decent LCD vs a CRT and get back to this thread when you're done.

>>544053
He said they were the best for standard definition signals you fuckwit

>implying that CRTs can't into HD

>>544053

I explicitly stated I was referring to standard def signals, but there are HD CRT displays as well. In fact, I'm using one right now.

>be playing retro videogames all day
>take break to go on /vr/
>so i can talk about videogames
>thread that has nothing to do with videogames on front page
>every single fucking day

>>544034

I worked in a warehouse for years. Get over it.

>>544034
Assuming mass goes up with the cube of screen diagonal, 30" is about 4 times as heavy as 19". I could carry a 19" alone as a kid, and a muscular adult should carry at least twice as much as a skinny boy, so my conclusion is only 2 men are needed for a 30" and those workers were pussies.

>>544394
Hide it then.

>>544484
I can carry a 27" TV by myself, but my 30" CRT HDTV is like 50 pounds heaver and even harder to wrap my arms around due to it being widescreen, so I have to get help to move it.

>>544484

Hahaha... you all serious?

Multiple people for a 30" set?

Biggest TV set I've moved was a 50" rear projection. Actually wasn't that bad at all, looked a lot worse than it was at 80 pounds. Just used lifting straps to get around its awkward size.

>>544034
>I have seen a 30" CRT leave 3 muscular men huffing and breathing like they ran a marathon.

I doubt that. That's fucking nothing for three guys in decent shape, let alone "muscular."

Unless by muscular you meant a pod of common North American Land Whales, well-known for getting winded from carrying nothing at all.

>>543978

I remember when I got tricked into this bullshit right here, and ended up buying a CRT HDTV. What a fucking boondoggle.

Now have a huge ass plasma that looks infinitely better. Fuck off with this CRT shit.

lel i fucking carried a 30" trinitron up 5 storeys into my friend's flat the other week no problem, they aren't THAT heavy.

>>544053

My HD CRT blows away any other TV I've ever seen in terms of picture quality. Super crisp, awesome motion, and dem delicious blacks.

>>546953
More like you were too stupid to realize that the reason CRTs are recommended for retro gaming is because they are Standard Definition.

>>547090

Yet most of the games you're playing don't even output in SD. This is just more hipster bullshit.

>>546953

Enjoy your input lag

>>547128
No, but SD CRT's handle 240p 1000 time better than HDTV's.

>>547143

Unnoticeable input lag? Gee whiz, whatever shall I do? Keep making up reasons for you to be different. I suggest wearing that you start wearing a fedora.

>>547162
I believe you meant to say "noticeable input lag"

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip6WuOvK8EU

Educate yourself.

Man, I'm rather sad. I saw some nice looking Panasonic flat CRTs for $10, figured "Why the hell not?" and snagged one of them.
SURPRISE, HOTEL MODE, BITCH!
Unfortunately, there seems to be relatively little information on that particular model, and the button codes that I can find don't seem to work. Now I'm stuck wondering whether or not to just throw it out.

>>537156
>Indie Super Mario Bros 3.gif

>>530891
Yes.

>>547162

>Unnoticeable

I suppose if you're terrible enough at vidya that you don't notice it might not matter.

Ask anyone who played fighters during the transition. Input lag is VERY noticeable.