/vr/ - Retro Games

Have to say I never had a problem with this. You just had to fiddle a bit with the d-pad to understand how the thing works.

>>5284880
>jumping doesn't work, let me try other things!
So hard

>>5284942
the problem is the game makes you think jumping does work, but that you're doing it wrong.

Land on left hand side, clip into wall, zip to boss.

>>5284880
Posting this or in this thread definitely is.
Oh fuck

I knew what I had to do but it was still hard with a worn out megadrive controller

>>5284880
>you make a barrel move by crouching and looking up
makes complete sense

>>5284880
I never understood how ppl didn't know how to get past that.

>>5284880
Yeah i failed it

>tfw the local retarded kid knocks a plant pot onto your Megadrive like the 'tard he is
>tfw the only thing at all that breaks is player 1's down button
>On the console not the controller itself, swapping controllers does nothing
>Can never pass this fucking barrel
>Or scene 4-1 of Dynamite Headdy because lol no down button available
>Or the very first level of Streets of Rage 2
>etc, a lot of games suddenly become a fuckton harder
I ended up having to buy a new console a couple of years later. Fuck that kid I've not seen him in 20 years, I hope he got hit by a bus.

>>5284880
I wish I remembered how I stopped being stupid when it came to this. I know I had issues with it but it didn't stay that way forever.

Sonic1>Sonic2>Sonic&Knuckles>Sonic3
YKITBT

>>5287925
Sonic 1 is such dog shit, only the first world had it where you could move fast until you ran into a poorly placed enemy.

>>5287931
Pleb opinion, wrong too.

>>5287934
yeah, marble zone was so thrilling from beginning to end, Shit game!

>>5284880
That's Sonic.

Next question.

>>5284880
My turn to post this next week, Anon

>>5287959
Hm.

>>5287943
>He doesn't think Marble Zone is top 10 best zones
What a pleb!
I bet you don't like Labyrinth Zone either, typical Sonic tourist.

>>5287631
>wants someone to die because he can't play a few games
You've got issues, anon.

>>5288024
If you're not constantly wishing someone dead over video games then what the fuck are you even doing here?

>>5287931
I genuinely don't understand how people can think 1 is the best one, to me it's the weakest.
No spin dash, no 2 player modes, no super sonic, no true lock-on functionality, and the music is better than maybe 3, but that's really it.

>>5284880
>up down mechanic not used elsewhere in the entire game
>other barrels move with regular jump momentum.

>>5288308
>no spindash
Spindash trivializes the game design. You can play Sonic 1 with Spindash on Sonic Jam, but the same is just fine without it.
>2 player modes
Not part of the core game
>super sonic
A novelty that quickly becomes an annoyance in the other games, trivializes game beyond belief.
>music is better than maybe 3
Both Sonic 1 and 2 have excellent music by Masato Nakamura, but Sonic 1 is the one that gave us Green Hill Zone. But really all the Sonic 1 pieces are excellent.
Marble Zone? pure sexy synth pop/new wave
Spring Yard Zone? techno carnival with psychedelic vibes
Labyrinth Zone? bouncy electric latin jazz masterpiece
Starlight Zone? classic early 90s J-pop in its splendor
Scrap Brain Zone? industrial and melodious
Not to mention the dreamy, waltzy special stage music.
It's all AAA score.

>>5288320
>entire game
up down isn't used in the SERIES at all unless it has a clear and sole function e.g. the ratchet pulls in Mushroom Hill

>>5288324
Part of my low opinion of the game was growing up with 2, 3 and S&K while I got 1 a bit later, only to find features that I liked were missing. Makes it hard for me, personally, to look past them.
But hey, at least you came with a well informed counter point and not just shitposting, so kudos to you on that.

>>5284880
Yeah, you're retarded if you think this is good design.

>>5288320
>Normal actions don't work
>Panic and freeze up hugging your knees instead of actually trying things on a pad with about as many buttons as you have brain cells

>>5288024
seems totally rational to me. you must be a faggot.

>>5287631
>tfw you are that tard kid

I'm retarded.

>>5284880
Never had any problems. It's a mystery to me why people flip out over this on the internet.

>>5287631
>tfw the only thing at all that breaks is player 1's down button
Why specifically that one function? Billy, you are making shit up again, aren't ya?

>>5289132
I have no fucking clue why only that was broken, but that's how it was. Some games like Micro Machines it basically made no difference, but others games with otherwise trivial obstacles suddenly became insurmountable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FutE5uSD1wM
Like that little platform at 0:33, without a down button you're just fucked. Was actually a little interesting seeing how far different games could be completed without a down button, though it was more frustrating to deal with.

I have bad news for me.

The only problem with this puzzle is that that barrel moves up and down when you jump on it, which is the first thing most players will try. If it had just stayed in place unless you were moving it the correct way, it wouldn't be so infamous.

>>5284880
If you reply you lose

>>5288324
Sonic 3 had a way better sountrack

>>5290325
Less memorable melodies and synths.
I only really like Hydrocity from Sonic 3.

>>5290329
Marble garden sucked.but everthing eles was awesome. Every time i pop on sonic music i always come back to sonic 3

>>5290337
I dunno, Carnival Night and Launch Base seem rather sketchy to me, and Angel Island's melody doesn't compare to the iconic GHZ or even Emerald Hill.
Ice Cap is okay.
I actually appreciate the MJ influence and how the ending theme of Sonic 3 was turned into Stranger in Moscow, but I still think Sonic music = Masato Nakamura.

Marble Garden It is the only area where I die due to lack of time

>>5290395
i always get very close during carnival night zone 2

fuck man, sonic 3&K has too many zones that go on for too long. really makes me not want to play it again.

>>5290343
Ice Cap is good, but it loses points for being a Genesis translation of Jetzon's "Hard Times".
Launch Zone, Marble Gardens and Carnival Night suck, no contest.
Hell even the boss theme is the worst in 3, that's why S3&K switches it out.

>>5290491
>he doesn't like GO GO GOGOGO

>>5290518
It sounds straight up like NBA Jam at points

>>5290518
pc version was better

>>5290648
I'm the guy who prefers the Nakamura stuff but no, doesn't even come close.
I admit it must be weird to have first played the game on PC and hearing that music though. It's kind of amusing, especially the Launch base theme, mainly because it's so different from the badass, grainy techno original, the MIDI version on PC is like a toy castle carnival song, I dunno, it's pretty funny.

>>5290648
delete this

>>5284880
You passed with flying colors

>>5289132
it's not that strange, m8. I have a Master System that has the plpayer 1 right direction held down constantly but only when certain games are inserted. Nothing to do with what controllers are plugged in. Shit's wacky as so I can believe this guy's down buttom problem easily enough.

>>5284942
The barrel moves up and down when jumping, and it goes pretty high/low.

It was a mistake. Even the designer said he was sorry for that.

Also you do everything by jumping the whole game.

>>5287631
>tfw the only thing at all that breaks is player 1's down button
That was actually pretty common with genesis controllers. Why is that?

>>5288320

These stupid hindsight morons pretending they're so smart piss me off.

>Nowhere in the entire series is up and down used to manipulate any stage gimmicks
>Carnival Night Zone has several sections where you can clear by jumping on the barrel
>Get to this section
>The second you touch the barrel, there's an immediate feedback with it bouncing
>Using previous knowledge, you think jumping is the answer
>It's not, but the game doesn't make it obvious that up and down manipulates the barrel, as again, there's immediate bounce feedback the second you get on it
>Not only that, if you were playing as Sonic and Tails, this stupid fucker would occasionally jump on the barrel, masking the effect that up and down did anything

It's a shit design and I don't give a fuck what these "HURR DURR! IT'S SO OBVIOUS!" morons say.

>>5290491
It loses points for being a based on then unreleased song? So any song that a composer reused is inferior. What a weird way to measure work.

>>5284880
The litmus test of retro gaming.

>>5287931
t. Arin Hansen

>>5287925
Contrarian opinion discarded.
>>5290518
>HOO! COME ON!

>>5284880
I don't get it.

>>5292064
>Contrarian opinion discarded.
?
Contrarian would be to leave sonic 2 last.
Everyone agrees Sonic 3 is the worst of the original quadrology (still great).
Also Sonic CD, if you want to include it, would be between 2 and Knuckles.

F tails sans undertale

>>5285626
the best part is apparently if you're perfect you actually can get past it by jumping

>>5290648
this melody is one of the best things to come from the pc version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqvIfKSTwTI

>>5292361
You can, because as a kid I did it a couple times. I decided it was too difficult so what I then started to do was put sonic into a spindash on the edge of the barrel, and keep the d-pad pressed down, while I then used the second controller to make tails do the jumping. As soon as the barrel got high enough I let go of the d-pad on the other controller. This was also tedious, but worked more consistently. I never figured out how to do it properly until I was an adult. I just assumed that the game expected me to be really good at jumping on it to consistently pull it off without a second controller.

>>5292361
I was able to do this once and timed out

>>5287931
>>5288308
https://youtu.be/Y8rt69ztDjA

>>5287931
>>5287943
>>5288308
You are not welcome here.

>>5288930

>>5288308
i always forget theres no spin dash in sonic 1

>>5296494
There is on the Saturn release but it runs like ass

>>5291563
Unreleased, but it still existed. It just seems kinda lazy is all.
And it's still the strongest song from 3, in my opinion.

>>5285626
yea it makes you think you have to time the jump more to get more force to push it down

>>5288024
You seem lost

>>5291559
yeah you get feedback but it’s not good feedback. It’s the kind of reaction you get from an object where you say to yourself “this works a bit because that’s how physics work, but clearly it’s not the actual solution.”

Some people possess this sort of meta thinking and some people don’t. You have to be able to look at something and have intuition about design to inherently know that the jumping method is too ineffective (however ostensibly possible) to actually be a deliberate choice by the developers. Granted it’s not as if devs never make weird choices like this but you definitely try other things before you say “I guess it really is that stupid” and grind it out.

>>5294719
>I tried once and nothing happened. Better give up forever.

>>5291536
>Also you do everything by jumping the whole game.
So you're saying you beat Marble Garden by jumping on the spinning tops and jumping into the pulleys?

>>5284880
Yay I'm not retarded ~ 12 year old me

>>5287572
SEGAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>5284880
Dude, I love super mario.

The barrel moves so erratically after you jump on it and whenever tails decides to jump on it that you REALLY have to stick with up and down before it reveals that is the solution.
And as others have said the entire series is about skillful platforming with up/down sections having clear indicators such as the pulley system which has a special sprite for up and down since he is pulling the pulley down to go up.

Never before was there a "puzzle" section like this and it seemingly comes after training the player to do skillful jumps on barrels, AND you CAN get it to work so it has all the standard markings of a "challenge room"
There's also no reason to think that looking up or looking down would influence the barrel, there is no logical sense for the intended solution.
The only way you solve it is by going "the devs couldn't possibly have made it this hard"; it's just bad game design.

>>5291559
This anon speaks the truth.

>>5299924
The barrel also has a different sprite for when you’re standing on it.

>>5298749
The problem is that if you jump off the top, as most people do, you'll BARELY miss the upper platform. That leads people to naturally assume they're doing it right, but aren't doing it well enough. It's made even worse by the fact that you actually can get over the first one that way.

There has to be some sort of correlation test of boomers who passed the barrel and their income in life.

>>5302236
I passed the barrel, now I'm a 33 year old paperboy.

>>5302007
When you go up/down on the barrel you don't do any motions logically conducive towards changing your vertical position, and the motion of the barrel leeches off the momentum of your jump.
Both of these factors make it extremely difficult to ascertain that up/down does anything at all.

>>5290402
You're dumb. Those zones have shortcuts which help you getting faster.
CN act 2 has one at the beginning