/vr/ - Retro Games

Just buy the fucking games.

Kids appreciate real, tangible objects; not a bunch of roms on a generic disc.

>>5240067
>help my kids enjoy retro games
Don't.

>>5240075
I'm not going to buy FDS games with questionable longevity, nor bust out the soldering iron for every gb game that needs a new save battery.

>>5240085
I'm saying one game per disk. and yes that is an real, tangible object to appreciate. that's why i got the idea in the first place

One thing that encourages kids to enjoy any video game is if they watch their friend, brother or dad play it well.

seems like a lot of work on your part and a waste of resources for little gain IMO maybe use a thumb drive and provide the same idea,

how are you going to deliver games to your kids? what i mean is are you giving them games by certain years? genres? franchises? publishers? what system are you emulating on?

I am for the promoion of retro games to the younger generation, i do the same thing with my kids, it was only last week my 7yo and i got right up to the end boss in streets of rage 2, were he sadly died and i picked the choice that dumps me back at level 6 but anyway yeh lol on that artificial scarcity/collector bit what i would maybe do is print out a hard copy of all titles full good sets/ no intros, whatever your into.. let them check off what you have in physical copies and then aim to tick off the whole good set for each platform.. thats should keep them occupied

>>5240097
> this

>>5240106
I really like this idea of the printout. And I didn't want to consider usb but if it turns out to be too tedious/costly like you suggested then it's worth trying.

>>5240095
You still don't get it. Kids aren't stupid and they know when something is fake and you've tried to go cheap on them. They don't think in practical terms like adults do.

>>5240130
i dunno, i mean, you can explain to a kid that utility is better than a shiny POS and when you show them examples like here is 1000s of roms/iso that will keep you amused for decades and the money we saved here will buy you icecream, soda, new sneakers etc etc they get the idea, and you are giving them life lessons to boot

can't you just be a good dad and get them an xbox one x? damn

Still that guy, on that note... can someone give me a ball park figure for the combined cost of every goodset rom title (at release RRP adjusted for inflation,) thats availible on the net today?

humour me lol

>>5240130
>fake ones and zeroes

right, just like how at friends' houses they would have a bunch of burned dvd movies, and the kids would complain that they weren't official

>>5240150

never have i ever bought or consumed knock off materials lol

oh... not this bullshit again.

This doesn't bear out in reality to any big extent. To whatever little extent it does, it reflects very badly on the person it affects because it's an illogical and contradictory behaviour.

Give your kids access to all the games, all of them. Sooner or later they'll get into some of them. Next thing you know they won't be able to stop playing them and you'll have another much worse problem.

>>5240141
Maybe, just maybe, a kid isn't gonna think about household savings over the next few fiscal years, and the eminent practicality of being handed the soulless option. But y'know, just my 2 cents.

>>5240067
>I wanna perform a social experiment on my kids
I feel sorry for your children. My parents treated me as their son, and not a science project.

>>5240067
You sound like you have autism and you're probably going to give your kids autism

>>5240067
Are you CRAZY!?!??
The DOS-ROM collection alone is over 375 GB.

i think people are missing OPs point, they will get through "all" the games eventually, its not some "experiment" its not pavloving the kids with fucking roms lololol as OP stated being dumped with maybe 6 games at once you dont really appreciate the games for what they are, i mean, i still do this to myself on occasion, i will go by the trade in store, spnd maybe 20/30 bucks buying a half dozen titles and play 1 to it conclusion while the others languish and go to the store again before ive even played another 3 from the previous buying spree... so many games not enough time

>>5240067
You're trying way too hard with this. Just hand them a cd with some games on it. If they ask where it's from just say it's a gift from someone at work that likes games.

>>5240197
curation is a big part of this.

>>5240205
this

>>5240169
depends on the age of the kids bro,

i have a couple just in school, that love old 2D platforming games less buttons, to press etc etc, for what ever reason they enjoy them, the older kids do have modern consoles, but rarely play them desu and if they do, its minecraft or gta, they still prefer looking in the vast library of old school vidya on the computer even over steam desu but all the kids are fiscally responsible desu, they understand money, they save, they see things and decide do i want A or B and how much will i have left out my allowance, money is a fact of life, of course were gonan teach the kids about money lol

>>5240197
thats almost half a TB

>>5240130
>>5240085

>late 90s
>dad would bring me copied CD-Rs from a work buddy full of pirated applications and games (basically the same shit as TWILIGHT CDs but in burgerstan)
>was the coolest fucking shit ever to kid me

most kids don't give a fuck how cheap something is, as long as it's fun
they're used to digital shit these days anyway

>>5240067
just give them a small curated collection on the CD, trust me, they will appreciate it, and will probably end up sticking to a particular game that catches their attention

This thread is a friendly reminder that exhaustive A-Z lists of ROMs are a failure in that too much time is spent going through them and it overwhelms people. Smaller sets of ROMs presented in a stylish manner on the other hand are a good way to introduce another generation to the good ol' days. Like sets of 12 or less.

>>5240552
That's what I'm doing right now. My nephews are 7 and 6 years old so I built them a little raspberry pi and originally I was going to dump full romsets but then I remembered when I was a kid and had one of those 128-in-1 carts and how fucking trash 90% of the titles were and how disinterested I was.

I was just going to start them off with 5 NES, 5 SNES and 5 Genesis games and then give them more later.

The only difficulty right now is that they have to be co-op because their mother is insufferable about forcing it upon them (and honestly the younger one will screech like the devil if he doesn't "get to play too", but they're not my kids and it's not my problem.)

Currently

NES
Rescue Rangers
Bubble Bobble
Turtles 2
Super Contra
Rampage

SNES
Contra III (they already like Contra so I'm double dipping)
Mario Kart
Donkey Kong Country
Kirby Super Star
???

GENESIS
Sonic 2
Streets of Rage 2
Golden Axe 2
X-Men 2
Gunstar Heroes

>>5240092
Don't be a faggot, they'll literally thank him for it eventually.

>>5240565
Good man. Your lists fills me with hope for the future. May I suggest some arcade co-ops? How about Sunset Riders or Twin Cobra? Cabal is also lots of fun for two players.

>>5240575
I'm going to do arcade stuff eventually but they're too retarded to figure out the coin-adding mechanics for MAME titles right now, which is why some of my picks are shittier-than-original ports of the arcade games. In a few years I'll move them on to arcade stuff.

Sunset Riders is definitely going to be a thing.

>>5240579
>which is why some of my picks are shittier-than-original ports of the arcade games.
Smart, although sometimes the home version is superior like U.N. Squadron, but that one is single player, but you get the picture. E-SWAT (the arcade version) is another co-op that they'll have fun with once they master pushing 5 on the keyboard. :D

>>5240067

The way in which you present these roms/physical media is almost more important than the media itself. You've gotta make them believe that this is a rare thing from the past that they can brag about playing to their friends.

Not a bad idea though friendo.

>>5240631
That is literally what Nintendo does. Not saying it's a bad thing.

>>5240635

It seriously is. Nintendo has mastered the idea of creating value where value didn't exist before.

>>5240635
OP burning carefully selected games to CDs for his kids is good parenting.

Nintendo milking the same old titles for decades while having their team of lawyers wage an endless war on file-sharing is bad.

In the first case you have discrimination and agency. Out of the thousands of de facto public domain retro titles out there on the internet - a virtually indestructible library of games, since file-sharing is decentralized and anti-fragile -, OP chooses a few titles which he believes will suit his children.

In the second case you have artificial scarcity and the attempt to incite imprudent consumerist lust. "Those games you already bought several times? Here they are again, bundled in a sexy newfangled Mini Console™ format!" And as we know, several of the ROMs in these things have been downloaded from the internet by Nintendo. Pirates have a curious way of being better curators of digital media than the rightful IP holders.

Thrift is virtuous, wastefulness is vicious. Consumerism is wasteful. As Yuri Bezmenov said, we never see ads telling us to consume less.

>>5240067
>ITT: dumb millennial poorfag who downloads ROMs from emuparadise comes up with brilliant idea to trick kids into thinking they have value
>UPDATE: 5 minutes later his 6 yo has downloaded fullsets and installed better emulators on a PC

>>5242527
>>UPDATE: 5 minutes later his 6 yo has downloaded fullsets and installed better emulators on a PC
>implying that today's 6-year-olds can even breathe on their own

There's people here that have kids and a wife or gf wow..

>>5240067
Why don't you just start your brats on co-op games one at a time if you want to psychologically build them out

>>5240640
>>5240678
Nintendo are a corporation whose stated goal for existence is to make money, as it is for all corporations. Just like you wouldn't expect the makers of Die Hard to say "hey guys, it's been a long time since the movie's release now, we're no longer accepting payment for it and recommend you pirate it, Merry Christmas!". If you have a problem with the way it works you have a problem with capitalism. In no way is Nintendo ripping people off.

Meanwhile OP's entire go at this is stupid. I reject it. Like I commented previously I understand the feeling of downloading and downloading and downloading... and then never playing them. But sooner or later, you're going to start playing them. This is really a case of millenial parenting.

>>5242546
10 years ago I installed an emulator with a few pokemon ROMs on an old computer for my six year old. Within a few months he'd downloaded a bunch more games and emulators and installed them on his PSP. It's likely OP's kid is as retarded as his dad because genetics but don't say it's impossible.

>>5240552
This
Remember how in your childhood you got maybe three new games a year,and you cherished them accordingly?

>>5240141
>dad I want a copy of Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice so I can play it with my frie--

>what's that sonny? you say you want a DVR full of NES games? *sips Monster Ultra*

>>5242587
>If you have a problem with the way it works you have a problem with capitalism.

No. The smartest libertarians I know are firmly against intellectual property. It should really be called intellectual monopoly.

IP is bad whether we're talking about Windows being a forced global monopoly (it is because of pressure from companies like Microsoft that third world countries had to adopt stricter IP laws), third world countries being forbidden from manufacturing their own medications lest they infringe on Merck's IPs, or Nintendo taking down AM2R because it features their beloved copyright-protected characters.

In all these cases the practical reality is tyranny of the few over the many. It is the squashing of private enterprise so that big established companies may profit all the more. American companies tyrannize the world through intellectual property laws.

The recent Facebook fiasco - Facebook selling personal info to companies like Netflix and Spotify -, it didn't surprise me one bit. These companies are the Leviathan. The shift towards streaming, the insultingly limited libraries of services like Netflix and Virtual Console, the inability to play games you bought on Wii's VC on newer consoles - you have a general trend towards narrowness, degradation of taste, abrogation of personal privacy, erasure of the past, perennial dependence on streaming services. It's just shitty. The way we are being prodded to consume media is shitty.

>>5240552
Yeah man for sure. If I walk into a library containing thousands of books I don't even know where to start, too many books. Just give me a Deluxe Greatest Hits 12 Book Set™. For some reason the sets are always Gulliver's Travels, Huckleberry Finn, Pride and Prejudice and one or two Harry Potter books, but hey, it's 12 books for $ 59.99, and that makes it a great deal.

>>5242909
>No. The smartest libertarians I know
Well, there's your problem. That's the biggest oxymoron of the year - libertarians are notorious for being dullards and intellectual dwarfs.

>are firmly against intellectual property.
That's just retarded. Look, I'm basically a socialist myself. I believe in UBI, universal healthcare etc. And yet intellectual property is obviously something that is good and necessary or media's value would fall off a cliff. What is the solution, rely on donations? Government grants? Doubt libertarians would be happy with the latter.

>It should really be called intellectual monopoly.
>IP is bad whether we're talking about Windows being a forced global monopoly (it is because of pressure from companies like Microsoft that third world countries had to adopt stricter IP laws), third world countries being forbidden from manufacturing their own medications lest they infringe on Merck's IPs, or Nintendo taking down AM2R because it features their beloved copyright-protected characters.
>In all these cases the practical reality is tyranny of the few over the many. It is the squashing of private enterprise so that big established companies may profit all the more. American companies tyrannize the world through intellectual property laws.
>The recent Facebook fiasco - Facebook selling personal info to companies like Netflix and Spotify -, it didn't surprise me one bit. These companies are the Leviathan. The shift towards streaming, the insultingly limited libraries of services like Netflix and Virtual Console, the inability to play games you bought on Wii's VC on newer consoles - you have a general trend towards narrowness, degradation of taste, abrogation of personal privacy, erasure of the past, perennial dependence on streaming services. It's just shitty. The way we are being prodded to consume media is shitty.

Stop, none of that has anything to do with our "discussion" (using the term very loosely).

>>5242926
You can't compare books and selecting arcade games to play. When all the games are in front of someone on some list, even if there's a cool picture with artwork, it cheapens the experience a bit from the original intention, is all. When it's just one game, it had to get your attention and keep it.

>>5242909
None of your argument makes even a tiny bit of sense. You think anything worth a shit would be created if intellectual property didn't exist? You want all this access but no protection for the ones putting up the money. That is the epitome of entitlement.

>>5242864
ahaaha that guy here

i get ya, i do, but as i expianed in a prior post, it depends on the kid themselves,
my kids have modern consoles and access to steam, u-play , they have tablets etc but still play /vr/ because they enjoy it. introduced to it relative early by me, 1 button, 2 button controls with some really child friendly titles and "dad who knows everything" about said games made for some great bonding and its an interest that they have adopted

>>5242859
that maybe true some kids maybe had a new cart every 2 months or whatever BUT there was a lot of cart swapping with neighbours kids, and school kids in the playground too

>>5242928
>libertarians are notorious for being dullards and intellectual dwarfs.

Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Murray Rothbard, Ludwig von Mises, intellectual dwarves?

Even the Soviet intellectual knew that the Austrian economists were right. Which is why they allowed a modicum of de facto capitalism to exist in the USSR. I'm not making this up: the Soviets literally studied the Austrian economists so they could get a handle on real economics.

But maybe you're the kind of fellow who falls for the abstruse prose of writers like Adorno, Deleuze, Lyotard et al. Lefties usually fall for this rhetorical trick - if it is abstruse, it must be deep.

>Look, I'm basically a socialist myself.

Well, there you go, then.

>Stop, none of that has anything to do with our "discussion"

It has everything to do with it. The fundamental issue here is human liberty vs. the tyranny of the State, and all these companies are effectively a part of the State.

>>5242930
>You think anything worth a shit would be created if intellectual property didn't exist?

For the most part, intellectual property laws only came into existence two or three centuries ago. So yes, people like Bach, Shakespeare, Kant, they all created their works without the "incentive" of having them be "intellectually protected".

This is a deep subject. Entire books have been written about it. IP laws do more harm than good, but I realize that it sounds counter-intuitive to normies.

>>5242946

IP laws became more important as the world became a smaller place socially, where you once had people thousands of miles apart possibly having convergent ideas or solutions to a problem, information, methods of production etc became less a source of pride to share but something to coveted and prized, too many people standing on each others toes and claiming to be the originator of x, y or z and monetizing that eg "capitalism stifled human progress in the nae of profits"

>>5240067
If you seriously came up with this idea, you shouldn't breed. Please think of the children and the bleak future you will be giving them by passing on your retard dna.

>>5242959
If you want to look at the actual history of IP laws and the actual harm that they do, take a look at this book: http://b-ok.cc/book/538420/a3c6e2

>>5242965
Wow, piss off. Nobody cares about how you've been reading a bunch of bullshit and these other people said it's true. If you want to form your own arguments go ahead, but you're unlikely to change people's mind about something as obvious as the need for IP by presenting whackjob, out-there theories as fact.

>>5242973
Nothing wacky about what I'm saying, mate.

I basically agree with the main thesis of this book (published by Cambridge University Press, lest you accuse me of reading eccentric shit): http://b-ok.cc/book/538420/a3c6e2

Here's the intro for you:

"'Intellectual property' – patents and copyrights – has become controversial. We witness teenagers being sued for 'pirating' music, and we observe AIDS patients in Africa dying because of their lack of ability to pay for drugs that are expensively priced by patent holders. Are patents and copyrights essential to thriving creation and innovation? Do we need them so that we all may enjoy fine music and good health? Across time and space the resounding answer is: No. So-called intellectual property is in fact an 'intellectual monopoly' that hinders rather than helps the competitive free market regime that has delivered wealth and innovation to our doorsteps. This book broadly covers both copyrights and patents and is designed for a general audience, with its focus on everyday examples. The authors conclude that the only sensible policy to follow is to eliminate the patent and copyright systems as they currently exist."

The book is full of illuminating historical examples. I recommend you check it out. I did arrive at many of my convictions alone, but I have had many of them corroborated by stuff I read.

Game designer Jason Rohrer, with whom some people here may be familiar, is staunchly anti-IP.

>>5240067
Let them play whatever they want, faggot, they're children, not guinea pigs.

>>5242996
>Cambridge University Pres
>not eccentric shit
Is that what they teach you in SJW 101 in todays "higher" education institutions?

>>5243126
Haha yeah man, whatever.

try something like rare replay, kids have difficulty with side scrolling games but are ok with overhead view games.

>>5243135
>yeah man, whatever
>ima smoke sum weed wid muh professor and make up new words to call things the capitalist patriarchy is oppressing

>>5243212
i don't know where you got the idea that i'm some kind of sjw. i'm pretty much "alt-right", except for the racism part

>>5244214
Got it from your loony alt-left rants and alt-left recommended reading material. Not sure if retarded or just false flagging.

>>5240067
plot twist: your kids will be turbo-normies and be obsessed with sports and not even play video games

>>5244282
>"alt-left"

Political literacy has really gone downhill lately, eh?

Where's the SimCity NES ROM?

>>5244287
>plot twist: your kids will be turbo-normies and be obsessed with sports and not even play video games

This literally happened to one of my coworkers. His kid doesn't even play Minecraft, PUBG, Fortnight, or whatever-the-fuck-else kids play these days. It's just baseball, baseball, baseball (and this time of year a little bit of hockey). Drives my coworker nuts.

>>5242996
this has to be one of the dumbest notions I have ever seen. does the author not have even the slightest semblance of human psychology? why the fuck would people strive to innovate and invent when they will receive no compensation for their efforts? people are people, not altruistic robots. god the left is retarded

>>5244324
>why the fuck would people strive to innovate and invent

For some it isn't about compensation OR altruism. Some people innovate and invent to innovate and invent.

The fact that you think people do these things only for compensation makes you sound like a Jew.

>>5244336
>for some
two words into your post and you shoot yourself in the foot. think about the alternative systems to what is currently employed. it should be glaringly obvious that they will be vastly inferior

>>5244348
Ah. So you ARE a Jew.

>>5244301
You're a massive fucking idiot, but that retard makes you look like a fucking genius. Gotta love how 'the new punks' are a buncha fucking bootlickers.

>>5242996

Shit flinging aside, it's unbelievable how delusional and clueless commies really are. Every single last one should be tortured to death.

>>5244360
communism was invented by Jews you fucking imbecile, that insult doesn't make any sense

giving kids too much vidya to play will just confuse them

I installed 40 games on a modded PS2 and they play only 3 games. Imagine the same but with 50000+ roms to play

>>5244451
I set up a wii for my nieces and nephew. I put all of my games and a ton of roms on a harddrive, and all they play is Mario Kart.

Be a good dad and beat Castlevania III on real hardware in front of them, they will view you as a legend for the rest of their lives.

>>5244481
That reads like an insurance plot...Yes...have the dude keel over while playing that motherfucker of a game. :^) jerk LOL

>>5240579
It's been a while but shouldn't the games let you enable freeplay in the dips? Or does it just go back to default without saving any of your adjustments when you close the game?

>>5240336
Sure, if you consider 3/8 almost 1/2

>>5244282
LOL. Is libertarianism "alt-left" now? I thought we were "fedora tippers". But hey, none of this really matters. Merry Christmas.

>>5244324
I'm pretty sure the authors of the book are libertarian, not leftist.

Here's another book with very much the same thesis, by a self-avowed libertarian: http://b-ok.cc/book/745342/97348c

>why the fuck would people strive to innovate and invent when they will receive no compensation for their efforts?

Why does Thomas Pynchon write novels? For money? For sheer monetary gain? Was this also Bach's motivation? Was it Caravaggio's? Were cathedrals built for profit?

Or let's try more mundane examples. Why do people make unofficial translations of games like Wonder Project J and Umihara Kawase for free? Might it be because they love these games, and enjoy working on something they love, and enjoy sharing the fruits of their labour with like-minded people?

1/2

>>5244348
>think about the alternative systems to what is currently employed. it should be glaringly obvious that they will be vastly inferior

This is demonstrably untrue. For instance (I have quoted this example before, it's a good one), in 19th century America publishers were legally free to publish British authors without paying royalties. I'll quote Against Intellectual Monopoly:

"How did it work? Then, as now, there is a great deal of impatience in the demand for books, especially good books. English authors would sell American publishers the manuscripts of their new books before their publication in Britain. The American publisher who bought the manuscript had every incentive to saturate the market for that particular novel as soon as possible, to avoid the arrival of cheap imitations soon after. This led to mass publication at fairly low prices. The amount of revenues British authors received up front from American publishers often exceeded the amount they were able to collect over a number of years from royalties in the United Kingdom. Notice that, at the time, the U.S. market was comparable in size to the U.K. market."

2/2

>>5244348

"More broadly, the lack of copyright protection, which permitted the U.S. publishers’ “pirating” of English writers, was a good economic policy of great social value for the people of United States, and of no significant detriment, as the 1876–8 Commission report quoted above and other evidence confirm, for English authors. Not only did it enable the establishment and rapid growth of a large and successful publishing business in the United States, but also, and more important, it increased literacy and benefited the cultural development of the American people by flooding the market with cheap copies of great books. As an example, Dickens’s A Christmas Carol sold for $.06 in the United States, while it was priced at roughly $2.50 in England. This dramatic increase in literacy was probably instrumental to the emergence of a great number of U.S. writers and scientists toward the end of the nineteenth century."

In the absence of IP laws, the American market was flooded with affordable and high quality books. Literacy increased. A general blossoming of vigorous cultural activity ensued. It was the age of Whitman, Dickinson, Melville, Thoureau. Does this look like a "vastly inferior" scenario to you?

>>5244782
I have never heard anyone ever argue that before and I only hope it's just a joke.

Advocating that idea is one thing if we had a completely socialist or communist society. The idea being when needs are satisfied people would be free to work on their dreams.

But you want to remain completely capitalist, and yet nobody who writes or does any other labour should get paid? How fucking retarded is that?

If people went off and did monumental things for free then how come 100% of what's on tv was done for money? How come noone ever made an amateur series for free that's on the scope of Game of Thrones?

The retardation level here is almost artistic.

>>5244801
correction: any other labour that uses IP*.

>>5244410
>>5244426
My lovelies, it should be clear by now that I don't have a single cell of "communist" in me. My convictions are radically anti-State. But I'm in a good mood today, so I'll wish you a merry Christmas.

>>5244801
>I have never heard anyone ever argue that before

That's one hell of an argument. But really the idea is not eccentric at all. If you take a step back and contemplate the history of inventions throughout the last millennia - the wheel, the compass, the piano, the printing press -, it is "intellectual property" that is the newfangled contraption. Men have always been inventors, men have always built upon the inventions of others, and indeed the whole thing has always been done in an "open source" fashion before the advent of monopolistic IP laws.

>Advocating that idea is one thing if we had a completely socialist or communist society.

No. Precisely the opposite. "Intellectual property" is ultimately a form of socialism. Yeah, I know, it might sound paradoxical, it runs counter to the fashionable truisms of the day. But really, again, there's nothing eccentric or unreasonably utopian to the idea. Humanity did very well without IP laws for most of its existence, and the evidence is abundant that we would do better without them today.

Alright guys, we're finally there. We've finally hit peak dumbness. December 2018. Nothing can ever top this. The only possible direction from here is to something more sensible and less dumb. It really seems almost like a twilight zone being here, but at least everything in the future of /vr/ will be positive direction from this.

>>5244801
By the way, come on man, Game of Thrones sucks.

You wanna talk good TV, let's talk Twin Peaks. It's the best TV show. And why did Season 2 suck? Because Lynch was forced by network execs to do the big reveal at the end of Season 1. Season 3 on the other hand was terrific - Lynch was given full liberty to indulge his avant-garde inclinations.

Execs don't like avant-garde shit because they see it as a financial risk. So we get a lot of bland as hell shit. We get Lost, Mad Men, Westworld. We get middlebrow.

Kubrick was forced by studio execs to include Peter Sellers in four different roles in Dr. Strangelove. He said ridiculous demands of the kind are a sine qua non condition when it comes to movie companies.

The Counselor, the Ridley Scott movie with the Cormac McCarthy script, is my favorite movie of this decade. And yet it was panned by critics and public alike. It probably lost money. Cameron Diaz originally spoke in an exotic Bajan accent in the movie; execs had her redub the scenes in a normal American accent.

The moral here is that genius creates, money degrades. Movies are an imperfect artform. Seldom do auteurs have full liberty to indulge their whims.

>>5244857
I've been trying to be polite in this thread, but fucking hell, mate. You're the dumbo here. Sometimes the truth is the opposite of our dearly held normie-ass convictions. Sometimes the truth seems paradoxical - and then it clicks. It's called having an epiphany. You ever read a philosophy book?

>burn cd
>nothing in it

>>5240085
Spotted the zoomer. 90s kids would have entire shelves full of cheap pirate copies of PSX games.

>>5244752
Libertarianism is split up into left-libertarianism (libertarian socialism) and right-libertarianism (ancaps and minarchists). At least learn the delineations of your political stances before you blubber in an anonymous venue devoted to Khitan crocheting circles.

>>5244924
>90s kids would have entire shelves full of cheap pirate copies of PSX games.
Not them, but bullshit. Those things were not easy to find in the states and downloading them was not an option and even if it were it would have taken until now to download them.

>>5244932
Second zoomer spotted.
>were not easy to find in the states
Gave it away. You're too used to the dominance of multinational chains in your modern era with your muh Gameschlop. In the 90s there were still tons of small locally owned game stores. You don't know this because you weren't alive to experience it. Pity how being under monopolies can shape identities so hard, eh kid?

>>5244932
10 bucks a pop on the schoolyard. sucks shit you only knew lame peeps faggot

>>5244940
lol I was buying real games.

>>5244946
>I-i was in the 90s i swear g-guys

>>5244946
what's real about a game that's not about a copy of a copy rather than pay five times as much for the pigments printed on a disk and a booklet that was black and white to make more profit of your dollars for the purchase of imagined reality, you fucking faggot

>>5244958
>enjoy being dirt poor all the time like me!

Ssssshhhh quiet, honey.

>>5244967
ey, lookits fucking richy rich over here

>>5244927
I'm pretty sure most people assume "right-wing" when they hear "libertarian", and that "left-libertarianism" is more of an outré thing. Or is that not the case?

My main interest is intellectual property. Otherwise, yes, I haven't yet mastered the concepts and the terminology of libertarianism. I hope one day my grasp of political philosophy may be as neat and thorough as yours.

I sincerely believe in everything I said in my rambling posts. I have read a good deal about IP. I know all the arguments for and against it, and the arguments against it seem to me overwhelmingly more persuasive. That's all.

>>5244974
I heard that in an annoying Brooklyn accent. OP is right, you know. 1000s of ROMs ain't worth shit, but a few nicely displayed games grabs the eyes.

>>5244932
>>90s kids would have entire shelves full of cheap pirate copies of PSX games.

This was very true in my third world country. But I'm pretty sure it was not that uncommon in America.

>>5244967
This is the thing that peeves me the most about "I only buy original games" guys.

It's fine if you have a moral objection to piracy, I disagree with you but it's fine. You're still thinking about fairness and the common good. But when it becomes a classist thing it just becomes repulsive.

>>5244989
Just because I joked about being poor doesn't mean you need to get down in the dumps. Relax.

>>5240067
Disregard all the kids on here who tell you not to experiment on your own children.
What you really should do is force them to play game decade by decade. Start in the 70s, it will be a bonding experience. Er, bondage I mean. Strap them to a chair until they have a decent enough score in space invaders.

>>5244981
>1000s of ROMs ain't worth shit, but a few nicely displayed games grabs the eyes.
You now what. Suck shit, faggot. Okay? Fine okay. If you're so fucking then you would just as well buy 1000s of "real" games and end up like fucking Metal Jeebus. The issue of over purchasing and not playing but rather collecting games is an entirely different one than the debate over being a buyfag or a piratefag. Hey, asshole, I'm dirt poor, remember? Even if the burned CDs are just 10 dollarydoos, doesn't mean I'm finna drop 10G to catch them all. Fuck you, alright?

>>5245005
lol
I would not expect kids to play anything pre NES on a home console. It's all trash. That's literally torture. Their first game should be Pacman though. Raise them on the arcade classics.

>>5245009
Beautiful.

>>5245015
no sweetie no....that's what I thought until I played some Atari 2600 games recently....

>>5244301
>>5244752
>my head explodes when a term I use is attached to my ideology

>>5244616
I do

>>5244752
Libertarianism doesn't mean anything. Liberalism is real, but only Americans associate it with left-wing politics.

>>5242996
Those are some hardcore mental gymnastics just to justify piracy. People don't die from AIDS because of strict IP laws, it's because those with enough power/money to make a real difference in the world only care about themselves.

>>5244795
There's a difference between not having to pay royalties and being allowed to publish someone elses work without their permission.

>>5245457
Those terms are arbitrary. The word "libertarian" originated among leftists, before being co-opted by pro-laissez-faire thinkers.
The word "liberal" referred to pro-laissez thinkers, before being co-opted by progressives.

>>5240157
Good goy.

>>5245461
>Those are some hardcore mental gymnastics just to justify piracy.

Has it ever occurred to you that a truism - such as "intellectual property laws are good for society" - might be entirely untrue? Has it ever occurred to you that you might have been swindled into believing such a thing? Because you have.

>People don't die from AIDS because of strict IP laws

They actually fucking do.

>it's because those with enough power/money to make a real difference in the world only care about themselves

Yeah, that's true. I'll give you an example. Bill Gates. When he developed the softwares which made him rich, *IP laws were much less strict*. Had IP laws been as strict back then, he would not have been able to develop his softwares. Software developers know what I'm talking about (the fact that lines of code can now be patented makes the whole thing a byzantine legal mess). And now Bill Gates is the billionaire owner of a global monopoly while draconian IP laws make it very hard for newcomers to get even the tiniest slice of that pie. Do you begin to get the picture?

>>5245512
And DeBoers owns like 90% of all sources of diamonds on the planet. You advocate just giving people who want it a mine? IP is the same. You water down creation if everyone has access. The intelligent and creative abandon it because there's no sustainability. All that's left are hordes fighting over scraps.

The fact that you look at the top and not the average says a lot about your perspective. You don't make a million Bill Gates by ditching IP. You just get rid of the things people like him did such as popularize PC use. But you made up your mind long ago. No point arguing. You think you're owed access by virtue of being born. Luckily nobody that matters on the entire globe agrees.

>>5245557
Diamonds are scarce goods, dummy. You can't ctrl+c ctrl+v a diamond. That's why they're valuable.

An mp3, a rom, an avi file - these are non-scarce goods, infinitely reproducible, at practically zero cost. This is a huge difference.

"Hordes fighting over scraps." Well, no. If one billion people download a Final Fantasy 6 rom from a website, the rom is not reduced to "scraps". It remains there, in its full and blessed intactness, ready to be downloaded again (well, until Nintendo files a lawsuit against the website).

As I have already explained here >>5244795, IP laws tend to impoverish rather than enrich societies. Keep in mind, too, that IP laws are a very recent invention, but a few centuries old. Many of the great writers and composers of the Western tradition did not have their works "protected" by copyright laws - and yet they wrote their poems and composed their symphonies. One wonders under what mad impulse they did so.

Anyway. Don't take it from me. Check out these lectures:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZgLJkj6m0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MutPtGdiR1U

>>5245597
>under what mad impulse they did so
The mad impulse that their works couldn't be reproduced with nearly zero effort?

>>5245610

"The evolution of copyright from an occasional grant of royal privilege to a formal and eventually widespread system of law should in principle have enhanced composers’ income from publication. The evidence from our quantitative comparison of honoraria received by Beethoven, with no copyright law in his territory, and Robert Schumann, benefiting from nearly universal European copyright, provides at best questionable support for the hypothesis that copyright fundamentally changed composers’ fortunes. From the qualitative evidence on Giuseppe Verdi, who was the first important composer to experience the new Italian copyright regime and devise strategies to derive maximum advantage, it is clear that copyright could make a substantial difference. In the case of Verdi, greater remuneration through full exploitation of the copyright system led perceptibly to a lessening of composing effort."

>>5245618
>This does not necessarily imply that copyright had a generally negative effect on the supply of compositional effort

>>5245557
DeBeers hasn't had a monopoly on the diamond market since the 90s.

>inb4 conspiracy to cover up the fact anon is wrong

>>5245795
That's an excerpt from Against Intellectual Monopoly. Which I quoted because we were talking about composers. It's actually one of the milder examples in the book. For stronger examples of the harm caused by IP laws just read the book; there's a lot of them. The history of IP is not pretty.

>>5240067
>Has anyone experimented with artificial scarcity with roms on physical media for kids?

Nintendo is doing that by shutting down all the ROM sites.

>>5247063
>i failed
>nevertheless, i persisted
>i tried to mitigate the fallout of my epic fail
>it just made me look like a backpedaling fool
Happy to debate crazy commie shit brah. But please not here. If you truly like old toys you should talk about that.

>>5240169
my dad brought me burned psx games all the time, particularly at christmas I usually got like 4-5 new games and I used to pass days playing them with my cousins
how many original "soul" games did you get?
I was very happy and sure didn't thought they were cheap, we're not a rich family and we got a burner only years later and it was very fail prone and blank cd relatively expensive

>>5247283
Haha. You dumb fuck.

I love games. I constantly post about games here on /vr/. It is because I love games and find myself having to pirate many of them that I am interested in the subject of IP.

The problem of IP is that it consists of a State-sanctioned monopoly over the use and distribution of whatever happens to be "protected": a technique, a machine, a novel, a song, a game. This has several negative implications, some of which I have already covered in this thread. But maybe you like the State and you like monopolies. That's fine. But that makes you the commie here.

I'm a moral guy. I endeavor to live morally. The matter of piracy is generally shrouded in a haze of moral ambiguity. Piracy is seen as this thing that is sorta wrong, but we do it anyway. But that's not true. Piracy has always existed. "Piracy" is a scareword used by monopolists to smear the all-too-human activity of making and using copies of things. "File-sharing" would be a more correct way of putting it, but that makes it sound too altruistic. A "war on file-sharing" would smack of totalitarianism. So the State wages a "war on piracy".

If you insist on solemnly declaring that I have failed, you could have the decency of providing counter-arguments to the arguments I have presented in this thread.

>>5247380
>haha hoho heehee. I'm a dumb fuck
You failed. Epically.
It's because you have no useful skills that you find yourself being poor and having to pirate games. I'm deeply sorry (not) that your degree in ethnic transgender whatever failed to impress even the manager at your local fat food joint.
The best counterargument to the batshit "arguments" you've presented is reality. It works and we're living in the most explosive period of creativity in history. We have immensely successful IPs available under all kinds of licenses. You're looking at this from the perspective of a dumb kid looking to strut his pirate cred by downloading ROMs. You're a damn fool.

>>5240095
Soldering game boy batteries sounds like a fun activity for a kid. It may lead to a productive hobby, and helps develop a practical skill.

>>5247796
I think I have already told you I'm not a leftist.

I live in the third world. Piracy is more common in the third world, whether we're talking Latin America, Eastern Europe or China. It's not just because we make less money, but also because taxes make media more expensive. The more socialist a country is, the more it tends to be poor.

IP laws benefit companies like Microsoft, Monsanto, Disney, big pharmaceutical companies. Small farmers need to pay royalties to Monsanto in order to use their patented seeds. Third worlders pay expensively for patented medications (patented molecules) so that Merck may accrue billions in profits. Disney lobbied for extending the protection term of copyrights to a whooping 70 years after death of author (this removes a significant ammount of movies, music and books from the public domain). I could go on. The big picture is one of greed and totalitarianism. People who work for pharmaceutical companies often go on to work for the FDA, and the other way around. Big Business is in cahoots with Big State.

If the concept of "patented seeds" and "patented molecules" doesn't sound dystopian to you, there's something wrong with you.

Most normies are dumb as shit and are satisfied with shitty services like Netflix. But if you have a modicum of taste, if you like Bergman and Fellini, good luck finding their movies on that service.

The United States threaten third world countries with economic sanctions unless they adopt stricter intellectual property laws, so that US companies may sell their patented products (like medications and software) in foreign markets. America is forcing the whole world to adopt draconian IP legislation.

I could go on. If you look at the big picture, it's not pretty. But you're right though, we're living in a veritable 21st century Renaissance. We don't have Caravaggio or Michelangelo, but we do have Kingdom Hearts, Harry Potter and endless Spiderman movies.

>>5242926
and if you give kids every single game released with zero explaination they will just play minecraft and fortnite

>>5242554
Jealous?

>>5247840
>I could go on
Of course you could, and probably will. It's much easier to rant about conspiracy theories on the internet than to get a job so you can afford toys.
The concept of companies making huge investments in developing more nutritious easier to grow food sounds fucking awesome to me. And should to you because that's the only way you third worlders are going to survive while you breed like rats. God forbid a company gets to make money off that for 20 years. I mean that's an eternity for someone like you who's barely been alive that long.

>>5240067
Honestly, just give your kids money for games. You can still collect for some consoles without spending an absurd amount of money (unless Genesis games have been getting super expensive), and like >>5240085 said they'd probably appreciate genuine media more than ROMs. You can reward them for doing chores with a trip to the game store, or by buying them something online. Idk anything about parenting but that might reinforce the idea of hard work or something

I suppose if you'd rather go the other route to save money, you could make some sort of money system so they can "earn" games from you. Again, rewards them for their work and still gives a sense of scarcity.

>>5240130
>He never played bootleg PC games
>He never watched movies filmed in the theater

Look at Mr. Moneybags over here

>>5248916
bruh, I think what he's saying is that it would be nice if he could get his kids a few legit games and consoles, not being a dumpster-diving dad all their lives. People only get one childhood.

>>5248913
>just give your kids money for games
why are you ignoring gaming now is all about microtransaction and streaming without owning any "genuine media"?
they are just going to blew all the money on shitty skins for the fotm game
>>5248976
>best childhood is consuming like a good goy
fuck off, I prefer burned cd of selected games than shitty AAA anyday

>>5248893
Okay man. I think you must have been insulted by something I said, and now you're trying to get back at me. I'm sorry. I mean no ill.

>Of course you could, and probably will. It's much easier to rant about conspiracy theories on the internet than to get a job so you can afford toys.

You don't know anything about my life. As for trying to caricature my stance as a "conspiracy theory", I have already provided links to excellent books and lectures on this matter. The author of "Against Intellectual Property" is a patent attorney himself, who makes less money than he could because he refuses to sue companies for patent infringement. He considers it unethical.

The truth simply is that a lot of "legal" media is prohibitively expensive in the third world. Even if you have the money, it's a bad use of money. And as I said, America forces the world to adapt to its own IP laws. Look up the "Special 301 Report". America forces third world countries to wage "wars on piracy" in their own territories so that we may spend one third of our monthly salary on a single Switch game. Seriously, do I need to explain the concept of "prohibitively expensive" to you?

If you study the subject the picture that emerges is a bleak one. There is nothing sacrosanct about IP laws. They do more harm than good. Read "Against Intellectual Monopoly" for copious examples of what I'm talking about. But I don't think you want to enlighten yourself, do you?

>The concept of companies making huge investments in developing more nutritious easier to grow food sounds fucking awesome to me.

You are very ignorant about what Monsanto really is and does. But by all means go ahead and gobble up all that genetically modified, glyphosate-ridden food. You do know that Monsanto pays scientists to lie about the quality of their food, don't you?

>>5248893
>And should to you because that's the only way you third worlders are going to survive while you breed like rats

It's weird how guys like you wanna claim the moral high ground while saying this kind of shit. But whatever. Best regards.

>>5249075
I'm not insulted. I'm just calling you out for being an naive kid regurgitating crazy conspiracy theory shit because it makes you feel less bad about being poor. I've read plenty of crazy shit. And your appeal to authority is as pathetic as your poorfaggotry.

>>5249076
What "moral high ground" do you think I'm claiming? I'm not telling the poorfag not to download shit. I'm telling him not to be poor and if he insists on being poor not to blame it on some loony conspiracy theories. That's OG Gordon Gekko morality not the moral high ground.

>>5249893
There is nothing conspiratorial about my stance. If you took five minutes to check out the PDFs or the video lectures to which I linked, perhaps you would be able to realize that.

You keep attributing motivations to me pulled straight out of your ass. I am sincerely convinced that the libertarian stance against IP - a stance adopted by several famous and respected libertarians thinkers - is the correct stance on the matter.

I'm an intellectually honest guy. I am perfectly aware that our selfish preferences can colour our judgement and influence our convictions. I have read Nietzsche. I know how that shit works. And that's not what I'm doing here. Intellectual property is objectively untenable. I have already mentioned the fact that Stephan Kinsella, one of the foremost contemporary anti-IP thinkers, is a patent attorney. His avowed conviction is professionally disadvantageous to him. You seem to have missed this point. You seem to miss all of my points.

I'm not making any appeals to authority. I'm saying the arguments these guys are presenting are damn good, and that you should check them out before dismissing the whole thing as "crazy conspiracy theory shit".

It's not a matter of rising above poverty. There is a larger context. Everyone in the third world pirates, because legal media is often prohibitively expensive here. There is a moral here - a moral you insist on missing.