/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5221557
>Wait, i thought axelay used Mode 7?
Nothing about what you posted necessarily says that it doesn't.

>>5221568

does it use mode 7 or doesn't it? I'm totally confused.

Mode 7 can only do a flat rotating texture. Also if they had went with mode 7 they would have less tiles to build the backgrounds.

>>5221557
Axelay does not use Mode 7 except for bosses (the second boss for instance). What Mode 7 does is a rotation of scaling of a background. In Axelay's regular gameplay there is no such thing.

The "roller pin" effect is just scanline manipulation of the background on a per-line basis, which uses the SNES's HDMA interrupt feature. Mega Drive hardware has the same ability, though implemented differently.

>>5221576
>. Also if they had went with mode 7 they would have less tiles to build the backgrounds.
Huh? How is hardware rotation (from the FX7 chip inside a cart like Starfox) going to limit tiles? It won't.

Btw, Atari was doing hardware scaling years before Nintendo and SEGA.

>>5221589
>How is hardware rotation (from the FX7 chip inside a cart like Starfox) going to limit tiles? It won't.
Maybe the fact that the SNES doesn't have an infinite amount of VRAM space and bandwidth and Mode 7 wacks on it harder than other modes?

>>5221585
>Mega Drive hardware has the same ability, though implemented differently.
It's done in software, not hardware for the Mega Drive/Genesis.

>>5221595
Maybe.

>>5221589
Allow me to blow your mind, when Mode 7 is on they can't use other backgrounds. All the background decoration you see here in pic related are made out of sprites.

>>5221557

>where enemies were warped into view providing a pseudo-3d behind the ship effect

Notice it doesn't mention Mode 7 once?

>>5221609
Axelay isn't a mode 7 game.

>>5221627
>Axelay isn't a mode 7 game.

It's used for several bosses including that one. ;)

>>5221609
>Allow me to blow your mind, when Mode 7 is on they can't use other backgrounds.
I just realized that I was confusing Mode 7 with the fucking FX chip. You're correct.

>>5221557
afaik, there's actually no real reason to use Mode 7 for those bits, nor would it help (because there's no rotation, and only vertical scaling) -- all Axelay is doing is scrolling the background each line to skip lines and give it a curve effect
not using mode 7 means it also gets to have parallax scrolling in the background -- being in Mode 7 means you get only only one BG layer on whatever lines of the screen are drawn using it, many games do things like switch modes mid-screen or make the background out of sprites to get around this

Since it's just a background scroll effect, you can do the Axelay effect on the Genesis in exactly the same way I described, too.

>>5221589
see >>5221636
any background other than a flat color/per-line gradient behind the mode 7 layer needs to be made up of sprites, you only get one layer

>>5221609
How many sprites were max in mode 7 (SNES in case of possibilities that don't exist) and what was max sprite size?

>>5221557
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_7

>>5221640
I was partially right, the ceiling and floor are still made out of the background 1 layer. But the circuits and mechanisms on the wall are indeed sprites. The sprite limit on SNES is theoretically pretty large but games can't ever hit it due to the slow CPU.

>>5221589

This is probably going to display wrong but...

Mode # Colors for BG
1 2 3 4
======---=---=---=---=
0 4 4 4 4
1 16 16 4 -
2 16 16 - -
3 256 16 - -
4 256 4 - -
5 16 4 - -
6 16 - - -
7 256 - - -
7EXTBG 256 128 - -

>>5221661
Anyway, if you are in background mode 7, you only have 1 background layer. Mode 7 is the only mode that allowed the transforms of a background layer.

Interesting fact, the GBA had a mode with 2 transformable background layers.

>>5221597
>It's done in software, not hardware for the Mega Drive/Genesis.
"Mode 7" is done in software on the Mega Drive, but the console absolutely has hardware support for per-scanline manipulation.

>>5221640
The background modes like Mode 7 don't affect the SNES's sprite engine at all, but they do have an effect on what can be done with backgrounds, like the number of background layers.

SNES supports up to 128 sprites, with 64x64 being the largest SNES sprite size. In practice you can't have 128 sprites on screen unless they are all set to the smallest sprite size the SNES supports, because the CPU/VRAM essentially shits itself otherwise.

Also in practice the SNES sprite engine was shit because it has no support for non-square shaped sprites, and could only display two sprite sizes on screen at once.

>>5221694
>but the console absolutely has hardware support for per-scanline manipulation.
You're a bit mixed up. I also mixed up the scrolling layers with scaling ability.
So you're correct about the scan line manipulation on what some companies called "mode 7" but that's not the same issue as hardware vs software sprite scaling.

>>5221707
Mode 7 isn’t scanline manipulation. It uses a matrix operation to remap the background tiles. However it can be combined with scanline manipulation to produce the F-Zero perspective look.

The Mega Drive does the latter in hardware but the former only in software. Neither console can transform sprites in hardware.

>>5221779
>Neither console can transform sprites in hardware.
Right!

>>5221609
Am I getting this right? The whole purple body of that boss except it's legs are all part of the background in order to do Mode 7?

>>5221843
Japanese black magic

> Of course, it's not a PC Engine shooter, and you don't have to look hard to find evidence. In fact, the visual gimmick that more or less defines Axelay is an advanced adaptation of a built-in Super NES feature, its hardware Mode 7's ability to render a background as if it were pasted on a cylinder. This graphical trick saw its most memorable application in another Konami title, Super Castlevania IV, but in that case the artists were simply using it to show off a novel programming gimmick. Here, it serves a more explicit purpose: The distorted background bitmaps create the illusion of racing along the surface of a sphere, producing a profound impression of speed in what amounts to a fairly slow-paced shooter.

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/virtual-spotlight-axelay-the-ultimate-konami-shooter

/vr/ blown the fuck out.

Is this game actually good or is only remembered for its neat-looking graphical gimmicks?

>>5223680
It's really good.

>>5223680
Good by console standards, meh by arcade standards.

>>5223680

It's a good game, but as an early Konami SFC title it has slowdown. I recommend using overclocking.

>>5223680
It's neat. Lots of weapons, unique health system, amazing bosses. Hitboxes can be a little shitty but that can be said for every Konami shmup.

>>5223680
Best Snes shooter. Great game.

>>5223865
Biometal's better.

>>5223869
HAHAHAHAHA

You're all NEEERRRRDS

>>5221557

The game does not use paralax scrolling. wtf is this article on about? Wikipedia is such bullshit.

>>5223869
LOL
O
L

>>5223680
The soundtrack is also amazing.

>>5221575
Yes. You can tell because the scanlines horizontally scale (get squished) the farther down the screen you go. This is a matrix operation, done by a mode 7 background.

Had the scanlines not been horizontally scaled, a similar effect could be achieved in any of the other graphics modes by liberal use of HDMA updating the background scrolling registers every scanline (this happens anyway with the mode 7 graphics).

>>5224007
>You can tell because the scanlines horizontally scale
You don't need Mode 7 for horizontal scaling

>>5224030
yeah, you do. vertical scaling, no. horizontal, yes.

the best you can do otherwise is use the offset feature of modes 2, 4, or 6, but that would produce a much more limited effect (and may have some other restrictions)

>>5224178
Vertical scaling, that's it. Oops. But that's what Axelay is doing, not horizontal.

this game has terrible draw distance, I dunno how you boomers played this without getting headaches. I sure can't.

>>5224202
upon closer inspection, yeah, I think you're right. I didn't have the rom, so I just looked up a youtube video instead, and i think the paralax when the ship moves back and forth made me think it was scaling horizontally. It probably isn't mode 7. I probably should have just downloaded the rom and checked it out first hand

>>5224320
better off not downloading the rom, the game's a goofy looking waste of time

>>5224368
Lol, sure champ, sure.

>>5221557
>Earthling alert
>Earthling alert

>>5223639

Can't find a fucking rom of this game, everyone I find is broken. Maybe is just me?